Speaker 1: Falling in love is the best feeling in the world.
Speaker 1: You see stars, you feel giddy, But sometimes that makes
Speaker 1: you do crazy things, and sometimes that means murder. Just
Speaker 1: because the story starts out with once upon a Times
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it ends happily ever after. Welcome to Crazy
Speaker 1: and Love, a production of Katie Studios and I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Today's guests are producer Jeff Shane and the host of
Speaker 1: the hit podcast Sacred Scandal, Paula Barrows and Melanie Bartley.
Speaker 1: Paula is a voice actress, comedian, writer and producer. Melanie
Speaker 1: is a documentary filmmaker and producer. Paula can be found
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Polly Me, and all episodes of Sacred
Speaker 1: Scandal can be found wherever you get your podcasts. Episode
Speaker 1: The Case of the Foursome, The Beach Vacation, and The
Speaker 1: Thrill of the Kill. On May twenty nine, two and
Speaker 1: two police received a phone call about a potential missing
Speaker 1: person's report. A couple had been vacationing in Ocean City, Maryland,
Speaker 1: over Memorial Day weekend and failed to come home when
Speaker 1: the holiday ended. Friends and family were concerned about the couple.
Speaker 1: When police arrived at the couple's vacation rental condo. It
Speaker 1: looked undisturbed. Their car sat untouched in the parking lot. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: police searched another condo nearby and discovered a very different scene.
Speaker 1: Bullet holes lined the wall, blood had dried on the floor.
Speaker 1: A terrible crime had clearly been committed. Two nearly identical
Speaker 1: vacation units rented by two similar couples, both at the
Speaker 1: center of this beachside mystery. By the end of the
Speaker 1: police investigation, detectives realized that one duo was dead and
Speaker 1: the other were the killers. But how did these two
Speaker 1: romantic pairs cross paths and made a violent and dreadful end.
Speaker 1: Let's go back to see how it all started. Here's Melanie,
Speaker 1: So let's talk about couple number one first, Joshua Ford
Speaker 1: and Jeannie crutch Ley. They were both from Fairfax, Virginia.
Speaker 1: They were both successful business people. He worked as a
Speaker 1: mortgage banker and she was an insurance They met at
Speaker 1: a Christmas party back in Boston and started dating. Two
Speaker 1: years later, when josh was moving back to the d
Speaker 1: C Area for work, Jeannie decided to come with him,
Speaker 1: and so they moved in together. So it was a
Speaker 1: May December relationship. There was a huge age gap there.
Speaker 1: Jeannie was fifty two and he was thirty eight, so
Speaker 1: I guess he was just smitten with her and they
Speaker 1: got together. Josh was also like really religious, into the church,
Speaker 1: volunteering all the time, and Jeannie was not so much
Speaker 1: into that. But you know, it was still working out.
Speaker 1: She had been divorced before dating Josh. Everything was going great,
Speaker 1: and you know, they went on this vacation to the
Speaker 1: beach and they thought this was going to be a wonderful,
Speaker 1: awesome escape from real life and it's gonna be fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We I mean, we hear a lot about relationships that
Speaker 1: kind of opposites attracted, and it seemed like despite their
Speaker 1: age differences and maybe he was more religious than she was,
Speaker 1: they really seemed to have a connection definitely, And he
Speaker 1: was a good church boy, which you know, after her
Speaker 1: having going through a divorce and stuff, she probably just
Speaker 1: wanted a good boy and that was Josh. The other
Speaker 1: romantic pair at the center of this horrific crime was
Speaker 1: Erica and Benjamin Cyfrid. Erica grew up in Pennsylvania and
Speaker 1: came from a very rich family. As an only child,
Speaker 1: her parents had very high expectations for her, and she
Speaker 1: seemed to match. Though she was an excellent basketball player
Speaker 1: and student, she graduated number one in her class. In college,
Speaker 1: she continued to play basketball and thrived, but off the
Speaker 1: court she struggled. She had severe anxiety and a c D,
Speaker 1: which endered her academic career. And so when she was
Speaker 1: in senior year, she meets Benjamin or b J as
Speaker 1: he was known. She meets him at a bar, right,
Speaker 1: and this guy's tall, fit, hot, everything she was looking for.
Speaker 1: He was a Navy seal station in the area, so
Speaker 1: she is smitten by him. They have the same thing
Speaker 1: in common. Excellent in sports, also really smart. This is
Speaker 1: a guy that finished first in the Navy seal recruit class,
Speaker 1: you know, and he was the youngest one to do so.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he was a cash and she felt for him.
Speaker 1: I think they both started developing a wild side into
Speaker 1: the relationship. He was a bench drinker, they liked to party,
Speaker 1: all of that, and she joined him on that. But
Speaker 1: you know, when you ask people that knew him, they
Speaker 1: would say that he would drink for two days straight
Speaker 1: and get no sleep and go to sleep wasted, and
Speaker 1: then the next morning wake up and go run a
Speaker 1: marathon and come in first place. Just amazing. Wow. So
Speaker 1: it seems like this couple has more in common for
Speaker 1: both good and bad. They're both very smart but also
Speaker 1: like to have a good time. Maybe too good of
Speaker 1: a time, definitely they Yeah, they seem like a better
Speaker 1: a better match. You also around the same age. He's
Speaker 1: like the kind of guy who are just like so
Speaker 1: driven and works so much, and they're just like perfect
Speaker 1: person and they can also party and then the next
Speaker 1: day they're just fine and they can run marathons. But
Speaker 1: there's always I felt like a little bit of a
Speaker 1: dark side to those people, and always like there's you're
Speaker 1: hiding something. You can't be this perfect. Yeah, I've never
Speaker 1: been able to drink and then go run a marathon,
Speaker 1: so there's something they're very suspicious. I would imagine Erica,
Speaker 1: coming from this rich, well to do family that put
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on her, probably was attracted to
Speaker 1: the fact that not only b J was smart and academic,
Speaker 1: but also like to have a good time, Like she
Speaker 1: was probably so desperate to let loose that that was
Speaker 1: appealing to her. Yes, And I think I would imagine
Speaker 1: for someone with severe anxiety and o c D it's
Speaker 1: probably not good too to start drinking heavily. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: can imagine he probably unlocked this side of her that
Speaker 1: was kind of being so altered, or just being an
Speaker 1: overachiever and being so perfect, like a perfect girl. Finally
Speaker 1: having the chance to let loose and then be a mess,
Speaker 1: and just she needed that. Probably after graduating first in
Speaker 1: your class and fulfilling everyone's expectations, I could see turning
Speaker 1: into a party girl. Erica and BJ shocked friends when
Speaker 1: three weeks into their relationship they eloped in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: but the couple had a rough patch when BJ got
Speaker 1: sent to Alaska for the Navy. Erica became jealous and
Speaker 1: forced her new husband to choose between her and the Seals.
Speaker 1: B J chose love. The new Lueds moved back to
Speaker 1: Erica's hometown, where, with the help of her parents, she
Speaker 1: opened a scrap booking store called Memory Lane. They also
Speaker 1: started selling merchandise on eBay to make extra cash. Their
Speaker 1: biggest selling items were of one variety Hooters Here's Melanie.
Speaker 1: Hooters was a big obsession for Erica. Yes, the rest
Speaker 1: strong chain that focuses on the waitresses breasts. She loved
Speaker 1: the food and the ambiance. But more than that, she
Speaker 1: loved the merch. She collected hats, shirts, cops, really anything
Speaker 1: that she could get her hands on. It was described
Speaker 1: as kind of like a fetish for her. I just
Speaker 1: don't understand it. It was just the brand she liked.
Speaker 1: I really like hope that it's ironic. No, but that's crazy.
Speaker 1: Maybe she really liked Orange. I don't know. Or maybe
Speaker 1: it was again tying back to she had the strict
Speaker 1: upbringing this idea that a woman could be free and
Speaker 1: do what she wanted with her body. Maybe that was
Speaker 1: something that she had never been able to do, and
Speaker 1: b J was bringing that side out of her with
Speaker 1: the partying, and so maybe Hooters kind of encompassed all
Speaker 1: of that fun. It's a really good point. B J
Speaker 1: got even into a worst obsession at twenty three years old,
Speaker 1: became obsessed with the Aryan lifestyle. He got a swastika
Speaker 1: tattoo on his chest. Huge. This guy was like just
Speaker 1: out of control. He got pet snakes that he named
Speaker 1: Hitler and HIV like things that kill people. The pair
Speaker 1: were becoming really bad influences on each other. They were
Speaker 1: partying a lot, doing cocaine and just getting worse and worse,
Speaker 1: just beating each other's bad habits. When Erica met b J,
Speaker 1: he was the straight laced navy seal and now all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, he's getting a massive swatstick a tattoo
Speaker 1: on his chest and it's a big shift. So I
Speaker 1: wonder what is going on in their heads, if she's
Speaker 1: into that, if she's okay with it, what her parents thinking.
Speaker 1: I mean they're living at their parents house. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: is making Erica's obsession with Hooters look a lot better,
Speaker 1: that is true. And he's cute. He's like, looks like
Speaker 1: a preppy, good college boy. He didn't shave his head
Speaker 1: or anything like that. He had like the cute face,
Speaker 1: all of that, and then this huge swastika tattoo on
Speaker 1: his chest. Insane. So how did these two couples meet
Speaker 1: in the beachside paradise of Ocean City and what happened
Speaker 1: to them? On the Saturday of Memorial Day weekend, four
Speaker 1: days before the missing person's report was filed, Jennie and
Speaker 1: Josh were at a local bar watching a Boston Celtics game.
Speaker 1: Josh called his brother at nine thirty pm to say
Speaker 1: they were going bar hopping. It would be the last
Speaker 1: time anyone would ever hear from the couple. May thirty one,
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, two days after the missing person's
Speaker 1: report was filed, police received a call about an alarm
Speaker 1: going off at a restaurant at two am. When an
Speaker 1: officer arrived, he saw a couple stealing hats and T
Speaker 1: shirts and loading them into the car. The couple was
Speaker 1: Ariga and b J, and the restaurant was Hooters. The
Speaker 1: officer cuffed them both and as he waited for backup,
Speaker 1: Erica started to have a panic attack. She begged for
Speaker 1: the officer to get xanex out of her purse. While
Speaker 1: that usually would go against protocol, the officer decided to
Speaker 1: make an exception per her instructions. He located the pills
Speaker 1: in her purse, but that is not all he found.
Speaker 1: Inside her clutch were four shell casings, knife, and two
Speaker 1: driver's licenses. The licenses belonged to Jennie and Josh, the
Speaker 1: couple who had been reported missing just two days prior.
Speaker 1: How did Erika and b J know the missing couple
Speaker 1: and were they involved in their disappearance? Here's Jeff So.
Speaker 1: When more cops arrived, Erica and VJ were officially arrested,
Speaker 1: and cops searched the couple's jeep, and amongst all the
Speaker 1: Hooters gear, they found a parking pass for a local
Speaker 1: condo complex. Thinking that Genie and Josh might be there
Speaker 1: and in danger, they rushed over and convinced the manager
Speaker 1: to let them in without a warrant. So they go
Speaker 1: in and Jeanie and Josh were not inside. But what
Speaker 1: they did find was a stack of photos that got
Speaker 1: their attention. In between all these pictures of Erica and
Speaker 1: b J and enjoying the beach and playing mini golf,
Speaker 1: they found pictures of the missing couple. Now this proved
Speaker 1: immediately that there was definitely a link between these two couples.
Speaker 1: Then the c s I team arrived. They did a
Speaker 1: full sweep of the unit, and they realized that the
Speaker 1: bathroom looked like it had been completely renovated, fresh drywall,
Speaker 1: a new door. So they just started wondering, you know,
Speaker 1: why would anyone staying for a long weekend do that?
Speaker 1: And then police peeled back the paint on the wall
Speaker 1: and found actual bullet holes. Upon closer inspection, they saw
Speaker 1: that blood lined the floor. It seemed that Erica and
Speaker 1: b J had done something really horrible in the unit
Speaker 1: and tried really hard to cover up the crime. But
Speaker 1: where were Jeanie and Josh? So let's go back. So
Speaker 1: Eric and bj are in Ocean City having a good
Speaker 1: time and they end up getting arrested per trying to
Speaker 1: steal from Hooters. Yes, which is the dumbest way. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you just committed a crime, which it seems like
Speaker 1: a worse crime, which it seems like they did, now
Speaker 1: that we know about this blood and the bullet holes,
Speaker 1: why are you then stealing from Hooters in the middle
Speaker 1: of the day. And then on top of that, why
Speaker 1: do you ask for the cop to go into your
Speaker 1: purse if you know there's bullet casings and the ideas
Speaker 1: of the deceased that you may have killed. I mean,
Speaker 1: the only explanation is that she was trying to get caught.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't make sense otherwise, right, Or she's so cocky
Speaker 1: and thinks that she can get away with anything that
Speaker 1: the police aren't going to put it together. Or she's
Speaker 1: panicking and they and then forgot. That's crazy. I just
Speaker 1: can't believe that. It's crazy too, because cops aren't supposed
Speaker 1: to administer medication like that. So I mean, on the
Speaker 1: one hand, she got lucky that cop would break protocol
Speaker 1: and give her the zandex. But also the cops got
Speaker 1: lucky that that cop broke protocol because they might have
Speaker 1: not found the ideas and the bullet casing. That's an
Speaker 1: excellent point. It is an excellent point. At the station
Speaker 1: Ericon BJ were separated at four am. Detectives first tried
Speaker 1: to speak with b J. He told them if they
Speaker 1: wanted to know what happened, they should ask his wife,
Speaker 1: and that he wouldn't say anything else without a lawyer.
Speaker 1: His wife, Ericap proved to be much more of an
Speaker 1: open book, and so Erica started first by telling the
Speaker 1: cops how they met Jeannie and Josh. She says that
Speaker 1: on Saturday night, Erica and b J were headed to
Speaker 1: a nightclub, you know, via a shuttle, but they realized
Speaker 1: that they needed exact change to get on. Then Josh
Speaker 1: comes in offers to pay for their fare, and once
Speaker 1: they got to the club, Erica and b J buy
Speaker 1: them a drink to thank them, and that's how they
Speaker 1: meet kindness. We're going to take a break, we'll be
Speaker 1: back in just a moment. So after hours of dancing
Speaker 1: and drinking. The club was starting to close, I mean,
Speaker 1: it was late and it and the couple just wanted
Speaker 1: to keep the party going. So Erica and b J go, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: come back to our condom. So off go Jennie and
Speaker 1: Josh to Erica and BJ's condom. They keep drinking. After
Speaker 1: a few drinks, Erica notices that her purse goes missing. Well,
Speaker 1: she starts looking for it everywhere, and then she accuses
Speaker 1: Genie of taking it. This big argument ensues. It got
Speaker 1: so bad that at one point Erica called nine when
Speaker 1: one and tried to report the stolen purse. But she
Speaker 1: was kind of making no sense on the call and
Speaker 1: sounds a little confused and disoriented, and before the dispatrick
Speaker 1: can get any real information out of her, the call
Speaker 1: got disconnected, so that call was never linked to the
Speaker 1: crime till after the fact. But what she said was
Speaker 1: that after that call got disconnected that b J actually
Speaker 1: got so worked up he pulled a gun on Genie
Speaker 1: and Josh. They were denying stealing the purse, and b
Speaker 1: J had the idea that he should got them naked
Speaker 1: to prove that they didn't have it on their bodies.
Speaker 1: So they obliged and Once they were naked, no purse appeared,
Speaker 1: and Erica BJ weren't sure what to do at that moment,
Speaker 1: and it was then that Jennie and Josh ran into
Speaker 1: the bathroom and locked the door, trying to hide. BJ
Speaker 1: got so mad he kicked on the door and Josh
Speaker 1: begged to know why they were doing this. According to Erica,
Speaker 1: it was at this point that her husband said see
Speaker 1: you later, motherfucker, and shot him in the head. At
Speaker 1: this point, Jeannie was terrified and she was hiding under
Speaker 1: the van and be begging for her life in this
Speaker 1: brutal fashion. Erica described that her cries were like a
Speaker 1: baby whimpering, and at this point b J shot her twice.
Speaker 1: While Erica claimed not to have seen the actual killings,
Speaker 1: she did have a big role in disposing of the bodies.
Speaker 1: Erica and b J cut off Genie's and Josh's arms, legs,
Speaker 1: and heads and put them into different dumpsters. A few
Speaker 1: days later, police found Jeannie's leg and Josh's torso in
Speaker 1: a landfill. When the police interrogated the couple again, BJ
Speaker 1: still remained tight lipped, but Erica had a lot more
Speaker 1: to say. She told cops that she only covered up
Speaker 1: the Hainous murders because she was afraid if she didn't,
Speaker 1: b J would kill her too. She started telling police
Speaker 1: that BJ was controlling and abusive, both physically and emotionally,
Speaker 1: a story that could never be corroborated. So they were
Speaker 1: skeptical of this whole battered wife's story. They're not believing it,
Speaker 1: but they still feel like they need Erica if they
Speaker 1: want to convict b J, so they offer her this
Speaker 1: whole deal. They're like, Okay, you testify against him and
Speaker 1: then we'll give you a plea deal. The only caveat
Speaker 1: was that she had to pass a polygraph test to
Speaker 1: prove that she wasn't lying. And this is where everything changes, okay,
Speaker 1: because right before the polygraph, the cops like do this
Speaker 1: pre interview thing where they ask her a bunch of questions,
Speaker 1: and Erica changes the story. She goes from like not
Speaker 1: having a role at all in the killing to admitting
Speaker 1: this tiny, minor, little detail. She admits to the cops
Speaker 1: that after b J shot Jeanie, he tells her go
Speaker 1: make sure that Jeanie's dead, and instead of just checking
Speaker 1: her pulse, what she did was taken knife and stab her.
Speaker 1: This changed everything immediately the plea deal was off the
Speaker 1: table because Erica was a killer herself, and now both
Speaker 1: Erica and b J would be going to trial for murder.
Speaker 1: It just seems crazy that they killed the couple and
Speaker 1: then dismember them in such a way like that. Asks
Speaker 1: to me, seems like it would have to be a
Speaker 1: little planned or premeditated, because where do you even get
Speaker 1: the tools to dismember someone at, you know, in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night. Yeah, it's really strange. It doesn't
Speaker 1: make any sense to me. Also, that they would spend
Speaker 1: so much time renovating the bathroom to hide the blood
Speaker 1: and the bullet holes, but then getting caught robbing hooters
Speaker 1: with their ideas in the in the purse. It's like
Speaker 1: they spend so much time covering certain things up but
Speaker 1: then made the biggest mistakes in other ways. They needed
Speaker 1: the T shirts like they needed these hats, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Now that is crazy. You paint the
Speaker 1: entire bathroom, you get a new door, you do all that,
Speaker 1: and you're like, now all we need is new knew
Speaker 1: who hers merch well and that Erica was so forthcoming,
Speaker 1: like she spilled the beans right away. What do you
Speaker 1: guys make of that. I just think I think it's
Speaker 1: a lack of i Q here. I mean, it just
Speaker 1: it's got to be. But we know she's smart. I
Speaker 1: mean she was the number one student in her class.
Speaker 1: That's that's a that's an argument. But I also when
Speaker 1: you're when you're having an anxiety attack, I think fight
Speaker 1: or flight mode takes in and she's not thinking of
Speaker 1: the licenses that are next to his annex. But when
Speaker 1: she gets questioned, she's she's so forthcoming, which makes me
Speaker 1: think of a spoiled brat kind of who like thinks
Speaker 1: she can get away with everything. That maybe she's gonna
Speaker 1: find a way to blame b J for being abusive,
Speaker 1: and she was afraid of him, and he's the one
Speaker 1: with the swatstick a tattoo, you know, so like you
Speaker 1: could easily blame any death or whatever on him. But
Speaker 1: insane that she would admit to that right away. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. I think she thought she would get
Speaker 1: away with it. And also, I think Erica was just
Speaker 1: book smart. I I honestly don't think Erica was very
Speaker 1: smart at you know, just logic stuff. I think she
Speaker 1: was just book smart because these are big mistakes I've
Speaker 1: interesting to the b JO. The only thing he'll stay
Speaker 1: to the police before he lawures up is go ask
Speaker 1: my wife. So he's kind of trying to maybe point
Speaker 1: the finger at her, not as explicitly as she pointed
Speaker 1: at him, But they're already kind of cracks in that
Speaker 1: once very tight relationship as soon as they get in trouble. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it took him really no time to start pointing fingers
Speaker 1: at each other. Yeah, it's a not a very strong marriage.
Speaker 1: And is anyone else getting natural born killers vibes here?
Speaker 1: The Oliver's Stone movie. That's kind of like the same characters, right,
Speaker 1: the Woody Harrelson character with the tattoos and the snakes,
Speaker 1: and then like Juliet Lewis. I don't know, I can
Speaker 1: totally imagine them like watching that movie and being super inspired.
Speaker 1: She kind of looks like Juliet Lewis with that smirk.
Speaker 1: Good analogy, Mail. I mean, it's interesting too that the
Speaker 1: pictures of mini golf and all the fun they were
Speaker 1: having on their vacation were taken after the photos of
Speaker 1: Genie and Job, So that means that they allegedly come
Speaker 1: at this heinous, heinous crime and then go out and
Speaker 1: continue on their fun beach vacation. Yeah. The back to
Speaker 1: back trial started in April two thousand and three, with
Speaker 1: b J going first. The snake and swastika loving former
Speaker 1: Navy seal claimed that during the killings, he was asleep
Speaker 1: in the car and only found out what happened when
Speaker 1: he came upstairs and his wife was standing over two
Speaker 1: dead bodies. At her trial, Erica stuck with her story
Speaker 1: about being afraid of BJ's violent temper. So at BJ's
Speaker 1: trial there was a surprise witness, and no one was expecting.
Speaker 1: A woman named Melissa Selling testified that Memorial Day weekend,
Speaker 1: she and her boyfriend had also met the killer couple
Speaker 1: and had an eerily similar experience. After drinking at a
Speaker 1: bar together, BJ and Erica invited them back to their condo.
Speaker 1: Once they got there, Erica accused Melissa of stealing her purse.
Speaker 1: B J pulls out a gun. Luck really. When he
Speaker 1: turns away, Melissa and her boyfriend are able to escape.
Speaker 1: Sound familiar. Let's stop here for another break. The big
Speaker 1: question for me is why why would this good looking
Speaker 1: couple who were clearly smart and had opportunities be stealing
Speaker 1: from Hooters and killing people. We did a little bit
Speaker 1: of research, and a term that kind of came to
Speaker 1: mind with this particular crime is thrill kill. And a
Speaker 1: thrill kill is a premeditated, a random murder that is
Speaker 1: motivated by the sheer excitement of the act. And it
Speaker 1: seems that Eric and be kind of fit into this
Speaker 1: because they each had a darkness and when they got together,
Speaker 1: those desires were finally set free. Think about them stealing
Speaker 1: from Hooters the whole reason they got caught. They really
Speaker 1: only did this for fun. They didn't need to steal
Speaker 1: the T shirts and hats. And the trial, it was
Speaker 1: argued that the murders were premeditated, which was also fit
Speaker 1: into this idea of a thrill kill. The reason the
Speaker 1: prosecutors were able to argue that it was premeditated is
Speaker 1: because blood was only found in the bathroom. The big
Speaker 1: question is, how could you kill two people dismember them
Speaker 1: without getting blood anywhere else except the bathroom. Experts argued
Speaker 1: that they drove to Ocean City with the plan to
Speaker 1: kill Erica got a tattoo in the same place that
Speaker 1: she stabbed Jennie. She was also wearing Josh's bloody ring
Speaker 1: around a chain on her neck. It seemed like they
Speaker 1: were proud of what they did. And another disgusting detail
Speaker 1: that we cannot ignore, guys, is that Erica claimed that
Speaker 1: b J suggested eating their victims, but that she said no,
Speaker 1: she wouldn't do that. So they clearly just each had
Speaker 1: their demons. We may never know exactly what happened that
Speaker 1: weaken or why they did it. B J was ultimately
Speaker 1: convicted of second degree murder and first degree assault in
Speaker 1: Genie's death, but in a shocking turn of events, he
Speaker 1: was acquitted of all charges in Josh's death. Members of
Speaker 1: the jury claimed the state simply didn't make a persuasive
Speaker 1: enough case that b J actually pulled the trigger on Josh.
Speaker 1: He was sentenced to thirty eight years in prison. Just recently,
Speaker 1: on April, b J was refused parole. Erica, on the
Speaker 1: other hand, was convicted of first degree murder in the
Speaker 1: death of Josh and second degree murder in the death
Speaker 1: of Genie. She was sentenced to life in prison plus
Speaker 1: twenty years for good measure. I want to ask you,
Speaker 1: guys about your podcast secret Scandal in that the alleged
Speaker 1: murderer stabbed this nun sister, Michelle. What is it like?
Speaker 1: Ninety nine times times, ninety two times, and to me,
Speaker 1: we heard the term overkill, which I'm sure you guys
Speaker 1: have heard. I kind of feel like there's a little
Speaker 1: bit of a parallel between the brutal nous of the crime.
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you guys relate this story to
Speaker 1: that story? Can you tell us a little bit about
Speaker 1: the podcast? In our case, this is a boy that
Speaker 1: had been abused allegedly by these priests, and then he
Speaker 1: lashes out against not the people that were hurting him,
Speaker 1: but this innocent none. Right, so we have the killing
Speaker 1: of innocent people that have not done anything. That's a similarity.
Speaker 1: But to me, the biggest similarity was when people were
Speaker 1: describing the killers here Erica and b J. It happened
Speaker 1: a lot like that with our subject of Sacred Scandal
Speaker 1: with me Hailofe. Half of the people were like, Mi,
Speaker 1: Halo was really quiet and never spoke, and then some
Speaker 1: other people were like, no, they're really outgoing and they
Speaker 1: were really talkative. In reading about this case, a lot
Speaker 1: of people were saying that about Erica, she was mysterious
Speaker 1: and quiet, and then a lot of people were like, no,
Speaker 1: she was really happy and easy go lucky. With people
Speaker 1: like this. I think there's a dual personality where they
Speaker 1: are different, two different people. I think that's a common
Speaker 1: link here. What do you think now? I would say
Speaker 1: a big, big difference is that nothing about Erica BJ
Speaker 1: really inspires sympathy on andy level to me. They just
Speaker 1: seem like very awful people, to be honest, Whereas mihailoko fell,
Speaker 1: I mean, he came from a really poor family in Ukraine,
Speaker 1: he was recruited when he was fourteen years old. He
Speaker 1: was allegedly sexually abused by these priests. He had a
Speaker 1: lot of mitigating circumstances that weighed against this horrible crime
Speaker 1: he committed, which is why he was offered a plea deal.
Speaker 1: I would feel a lot safer living in a world
Speaker 1: where Mehila ko fil is out in the street then
Speaker 1: BJ with the Slastikata two and the HIV snake, let's
Speaker 1: put it that way. I feel like b J is
Speaker 1: a lot more of a dangerous person than than than
Speaker 1: me Hailo was. In your podcast two which is so interesting,
Speaker 1: and you guys kind of explores like when do you
Speaker 1: stop being a victim and start being a predator, And
Speaker 1: so you wonder does everyone who commits a crime like that.
Speaker 1: Did they have trauma in their past? And it makes
Speaker 1: me think maybe Eric has something bad happened to her
Speaker 1: that kind of broke her psyche and and she then
Speaker 1: crossed a line between being a victim turning into a predator. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if it's a thrill kill, then that would mean that
Speaker 1: there's some sort of either sexual excitement or some sort
Speaker 1: of excitement with killing and death. And I think that's
Speaker 1: got to originate and trauma, because I cannot see that
Speaker 1: being a natural thing in our DNA. Do you think
Speaker 1: having worked with Mihilo and kind of getting into his
Speaker 1: head about how he feels now after the fact, you know,
Speaker 1: you feel remorse from him, But you see a lack
Speaker 1: of remorse in Eric and bij I mean, she's wearing
Speaker 1: the bloody ring around her neck, she's getting a tattoo
Speaker 1: in the same place she allegedly stabbed Genie. There's definitely
Speaker 1: a lack of remorse. Definitely, And what do you make
Speaker 1: of that? I still can't believe that all he got
Speaker 1: was second degree murder and only assault of Genie. Guys, what,
Speaker 1: there's no way Erica grib have done all this by herself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Erica a hundred pounds knocked down that door, right, absolutely
Speaker 1: not definitely had the better lawyer. Can we talk about
Speaker 1: how that woman that said that the same thing had
Speaker 1: happened to her. That's something, right, they might have had
Speaker 1: a little game where they and like Erica's purse is missing,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what it sounds like. It sounds like
Speaker 1: they were about to do it again, and for some
Speaker 1: reason they changed their minds and they let them go
Speaker 1: or something they ran away. I agree, it definitely points
Speaker 1: to this is their plan. But then it makes me
Speaker 1: wonder why would Erica call nine one one to report
Speaker 1: her personal And that's how premeditated it is. That she's
Speaker 1: establishing a defense, right, She's like, well, I called because
Speaker 1: I was sure I was being robbed and this was
Speaker 1: self defense. That's a good point. And she hung up
Speaker 1: before she could give any pertinent information. So maybe she
Speaker 1: was smart after all, she did think it through. You
Speaker 1: always hear a woman should never go home alone with
Speaker 1: the man, but you think if you're in a group
Speaker 1: or a couple, then you're safe, and that clearly is
Speaker 1: not necessarily the case, right, shameless plug. If you're enjoying
Speaker 1: crazy and love, leave us a review. Season three of
Speaker 1: the piked and Massacre returned to Pike County is in
Speaker 1: the works. We want to hear from you for the
Speaker 1: upcoming season. Do you have a story to tell a
Speaker 1: connection to Pike County or is there another case local
Speaker 1: to Pike County that you can't let go of. Please
Speaker 1: email info at Katie dash Studios dot com and don't
Speaker 1: forget to follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
Speaker 1: Crazy in Love is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Speaker 1: Chris Graves, and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound design
Speaker 1: by Jeff Twa. Crazy in Love is a production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Stay safe, lovers,