1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: I'm TT and I'm Zakiyah and this is Dope Labs. 2 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. 4 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: Today we're having a conversation that hits close to home 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: for a lot of people. We're talking about weight, body image, identity, 6 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: and self acceptance. Our guest is Ronald Young Junior, who's 7 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: the host of Wait for It, which is a podcast 8 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,959 Speaker 1: that unpacks the complicated feelings we carry around in our bodies. 9 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: And it's not just weight, but waiting, the idea that 10 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: we're constantly postponing life until we hit a goal weight 11 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: or fit a certain look. 12 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 2: This conversation is going to be a little different from 13 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 2: what you're used to here on Dope Labs. It's a 14 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: lot more intimate, it's more personal, and then we'll jump 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: into the science because there's a lot of that too 16 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: with this topic. 17 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: That's right, So let's go ahead and get into the recitation. Okay, 18 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: so what do we know? 19 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 2: While we know that people, especially in the US, are 20 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 2: constantly bombarded with messages about weight, from TV to TikTok 21 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 2: to the doctor's offices. 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: Yes, and we also know that those messages tend to 23 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: kind of frame body size as a moral issue, right, Like, 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: thenness gets tied to discipline, and then badness is anchored 25 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: to laziness. And that's just not what the science tells us. 26 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: So let's talk about what we want to know in 27 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: this lab. Well, for one, outside of how we physically 28 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: our bodies are built, what are the forces that shape 29 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: how we feel about our bodies? Right? 30 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 2: And I have an inkling, But I also want to 31 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 2: talk more about how gender plays a role in all 32 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 2: of this. 33 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: Yes, and not just gender tt but where you live 34 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: and what do people in your family look like? How 35 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: all of that plays a role. 36 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: So that makes me think more about the science. And 37 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 2: I want to know what the science actually say about health, 38 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: metabolism and weight. 39 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: I think we're ready. Let's jump into the dissection. Today. 40 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 2: We're talking to someone who has brought the conversation about 41 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 2: weight front and center. He's done it in a beautiful way, 42 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: and his work has earned multiple awards. 43 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,519 Speaker 3: My name is Ronald Young Junior. I'm an audio producer, storyteller, 44 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 3: and host of the podcast Wait for It Spelled Weight. 45 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 3: I also cover pop culture and television and film on 46 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 3: some of my other work, including Leaving the Theater. 47 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: Podcast Yes, thank you for being here. Let's start with 48 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: the inspiration for Wait for It? How did the show start? 49 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 3: So like it's funny. I've recently had a breakthrough with 50 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 3: my therapist a couple of weeks ago where I said, 51 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 3: I think that I feel like I lived my entire 52 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 3: life as if this box is going to open, and 53 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 3: once the box opens, I'll then be happy. And she 54 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 3: said to me, what if the box is already opened, 55 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 3: which kind of like blew my mind and really started 56 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 3: to be like, well, if the box is already opened, 57 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 3: then I have a I guess I'm responsible for my 58 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 3: own happiness in a lot of ways. And what I 59 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 3: realized is that interaction that I had with my therapist 60 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 3: is really the origin story of Wait for It, because 61 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 3: it's a play on words obviously weight weight and weight 62 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 3: wait and the way our relationship with our body evolves 63 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 3: and also causes us to wait to start fully living 64 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 3: life until we lose the weight. 65 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 2: That whole idea of putting life on pause shows up 66 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: in the research too. Studies have found that many people 67 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: delay everything from dating to job applications until they've lost weight. 68 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: So everything you're saying rings true. You've talked about looking 69 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: in the mirror and seeing a version of yourself that 70 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: isn't quite real, so not thin and not fat, just 71 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 2: not now the gap between how we feel and what's 72 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: reflected back. How do you think that gap is shaped? 73 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's a lot of what we 74 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 3: consume in media, like whether it's television, movies, magazines. Now 75 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: social media plays a huge role into it. I've been 76 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 3: making wait for it since twenty twenty three, but I've 77 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: been I've conceived weight for it, probably in like twenty 78 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 3: twenty one, but I've been you know, fat and or 79 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 3: overweight for some portion of my life, like I would 80 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 3: say the majority of my adult life. But even there 81 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 3: were times when I was much smaller than I am 82 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:36,239 Speaker 3: now as a child and teenager, that I still wondered 83 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 3: if my body could be or look better. And that 84 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 3: was all based on messaging I was getting from outside 85 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,119 Speaker 3: of myself. And I feel like now with what social 86 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 3: media is doing in the ways in which the body 87 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 3: positive movement has kind of like begin to get a 88 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,840 Speaker 3: lot quieter, and with the onset of GLP one drugs, 89 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: it feels like that gap between reality and our self 90 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 3: actualized image just continues to get wider and wider in 91 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 3: a way that's like completely unhealthy. 92 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: When I first listened to your podcast, I thought this 93 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: is very interesting for a man to be having this conversation. Now, 94 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: I am a TT probably knows what this is going. 95 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: I am from the South, okay, And the messages I've 96 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: always received is that men are supposed to be big, 97 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: Like that's just what you're supposed to be. But it's 98 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: a thought. I inherit it. I never stopped to consider it, 99 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: you know, And I'm curious about how you think gender 100 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: plays a role into our self image. 101 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 3: The way that I always look at this is there's 102 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 3: this saying that came from the body positive movement that 103 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 3: was it's okay to be bigger than your partner. And 104 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 3: I remember I looked at that and I was like, 105 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 3: that is that's obviously talking to women, Like it doesn't 106 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 3: say anything about it, but like you could look at 107 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 3: that and say, yeah, it's okay to be bigger your partners, 108 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 3: Like yeah, they're talking about women, they're not talking about men. 109 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 3: Because I feel like the idea that is like kind 110 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 3: of crystallizing society is that men are supposed to be 111 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 3: in some form, larger than the women that they love 112 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 3: or like are in relationship with. Even if you think 113 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 3: about in terms of the type of men that women 114 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 3: will universally flock to or consider attractive, they're going to 115 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 3: be over six feet. 116 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: It's short kings. 117 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: We know that isn't right, but that's what society tells us. 118 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, I am partial to a short can. 119 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 3: They're going to be like tall, broad shoulder. They always 120 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 3: say tall, dark, and handsome. And I feel like, as 121 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 3: a result, there is this kind of idea that this 122 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 3: idealized form of man is always going to be large 123 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 3: in some form, and that women are supposed to be 124 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 3: small in some form. But also there is grace given 125 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 3: to the ways in which your propotions work out if 126 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 3: they are air quote curvy, like if you have the 127 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 3: ideal shape, you know what I mean. And I feel 128 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 3: like it's more about what the shape is for women 129 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 3: than it is necessarily being fat or thin. Now, I 130 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 3: want to be clear, You're still marginalized in a very 131 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 3: specific way, and there's still like ways in which even 132 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 3: if you have the ideal shape, there's still going to 133 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 3: be ways in which you're not represented in media or 134 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 3: you're not going to be seen by the people that 135 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: you want to be seen by as anything other than 136 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 3: an object of desire or something extremely sexual or whatever. 137 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 3: You know. Like, I feel like there's all of this 138 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 3: like nonsense that gets fed into what we think we're 139 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 3: supposed to be with or supposed to look like. Very specifically, 140 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 3: that is one hundred percent related to gender, but it 141 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 3: doesn't really preclude kind of like those base levels of 142 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 3: the ways in which we are kind of all generally 143 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 3: fat phobic. 144 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: This is so true, And all this stuff changes really quickly. 145 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,679 Speaker 1: I can remember the Calvin Klient ads in the nineties 146 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: and early two thousands, rail thin people, and then Kirby 147 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: was in in the twenty tens, okay, and now we're 148 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: seeing less of the body positive movement and more of 149 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: that thin, thin, thin messaging, and it feels like it's 150 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: coming from every direction. 151 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: I think that's such a great point. And I remember 152 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: it was a few summers ago that I was talking 153 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: to my father in law and I was trying to 154 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: explain to him, like how social media can really impact 155 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: your the way you view yourself, and he just didn't 156 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 2: get it. You know, he grew up with you know, 157 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: the Telegraph. He's not really on social media, so he 158 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: doesn't really understand like how these things play a role 159 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 2: and why it works the way that it does, like 160 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: seeing someone look a certain way, how it can, you know, 161 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 2: impact how you view yourself. And it's really hard for 162 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 2: someone from his generation or generations who didn't have social 163 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 2: media to understand the impact of media and cultural norms 164 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 2: and the shame that comes from not fitting into these 165 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 2: boxes that are constantly being put in our face saying 166 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 2: this is the way you're supposed to look, this is 167 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: how you're suposed to act, this is how you're supposed 168 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 2: to sound. What messages did you grow up with around 169 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 2: the whole idea of health and how have those stayed 170 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: with you? 171 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 3: First, I want to talk about your father in law. 172 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 3: He may not have grown up with social media, but 173 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 3: he did grow up with Jet magazine, Ebony magazine, and 174 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 3: black spotation films, And so if he doesn't see the 175 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 3: role that media plays in public image, especially as I'm sorry, 176 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 3: is your father in law black? 177 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 1: He is not? 178 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 3: Okay? All right? So my assumption was that they were black. 179 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 3: But my thing is, you can take any of the 180 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 3: things that I've said and apply them to whatever the 181 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 3: white culture was growing up in those times. So like, 182 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 3: if you look at any of the magazines, films, and 183 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 3: movies that were showing women back then, it's the same 184 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 3: role that media was playing in those days. This was 185 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 3: my bad for making that assumption. By the way, I 186 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 3: think for me growing up, you know, I grew up 187 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 3: I was born in the eighties, grew up in the nineties, 188 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 3: and so I grew up with music videos, MTV, beet 189 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 3: and not just music videos, but also television and films. 190 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 3: And there was always there's this idea that you in 191 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 3: television mostly there's always like some schlubby man generally that 192 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,239 Speaker 3: was like married to a woman who was conventionally attractive. 193 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 3: Like there was always like, oh hot wife type thing. 194 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 3: That messaging always was incongruent to what I actually saw 195 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 3: in life, Like I rarely saw like I'm like, I 196 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 3: don't really see a bunch of like fat men out 197 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 3: here with like conventionally attractive wives in the way that 198 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 3: it's presented to me on television. Also, it felt like 199 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 3: in movies, I saw less fat men in movies unless 200 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: they were specifically being funny or had a lot of money, 201 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 3: Like if those two circumstances weren't there. I just saw 202 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 3: less of them generally. And I grew up straight sized 203 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 3: for the most part. Like I always thought I was fat, 204 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 3: but like, if you go back, I'll show you pictures, 205 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 3: you'll be like Ronald, you were not fat. You were 206 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 3: definitely a straight sized child and teenager. So but I 207 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 3: feel like I was always kind of fighting this constant 208 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 3: battle of the bulge in my head or thinking that 209 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 3: I needed to have a barrel chest and be like 210 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 3: very like like have abs. All of that. That was 211 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 3: the types of messaging I was growing up with, because 212 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 3: alongside not seeing fat men, I grew up with Morris 213 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 3: Chestnut and Tay Diggs and you know, Shamar Moore, like 214 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 3: all of these folks that if you go into, uh, 215 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:23,439 Speaker 3: you know, the barbershop where I was reading Jet magazine magazine, 216 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 3: like I was just like, well, obviously, this is what 217 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 3: we're supposed to be going towards. And you mixed that 218 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 3: with music videos. It all gave this idea of like, ideally, 219 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 3: this is what women want and this is what a 220 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 3: man is supposed to be. So my relationship with media 221 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 3: was like based on the information. Again that was just 222 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 3: constantly being a fantom me. 223 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: Growing up, all the women around me were curvier women, 224 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: and that's like my grandma, her sisters, all of that. 225 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: But then I distinctively remember seeing Aliyah modeling and a 226 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: Tommy Hill figure tube top, and when I took my 227 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: tank top up, I said, one of these things is 228 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: not like the other. Okay, And Ronald, you said something 229 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: that was really interesting when you said how men show 230 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: up in movies that are overweight and having a lot 231 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: of money because there is a sthetic labor and that's 232 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: a thing where people are being hired to look apart, 233 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: and we use that to justify a lot of things. 234 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: So we use it to justify not hiring people who 235 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: are overweight or who are not the right weight, whatever 236 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: that means to somebody who are not the race you 237 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: are desiring, who don't speak the same as you. All 238 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: of this stuff shows up. A meta analysis looked at 239 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:50,439 Speaker 1: studies from twenty ten to twenty twenty three, and they 240 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: found that higher body weight was associated with lower hiring 241 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: rates and lower pay, even when the qualifications were identical. 242 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 2: And this was serving white women with a sess weight, 243 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 2: so not considering other factors that they might be discriminated against. 244 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 2: Like their race, or their abilities, their physical abilities. 245 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: Yes, but the interesting thing is that for men, there 246 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: was no effect on excess weight overall over time. You know, 247 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but the trend was that 248 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: there was no effect on excess weight on employment outcomes, 249 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: or the magnitude of the effect is smaller, and in 250 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: some cases it's positive. And Ronald, for you, I'm curious 251 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: of if you've ever felt like your body disqualified you 252 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 1: before you got the chance to get in the room 253 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: or speak. 254 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 3: Yes. I mean. There was a job I had at 255 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 3: an IT company. It was a management consulting firm, and 256 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 3: I remember I got the job and I was very excited, 257 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 3: and I was working there at the support desk, and 258 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 3: I remember looking around me and seeing all the people 259 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 3: that working in the support desk. They were kind of diverse. 260 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 3: Most people had college educations there. I would look at them, 261 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 3: and I would look at the people who are high 262 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 3: up in the company. I rarely ever saw an overweight 263 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 3: person in any of those ranks. I would even sporadically 264 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,839 Speaker 3: spread out across the company doing other jobs, but I 265 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 3: rarely saw them being in positions of authority over everyone else, 266 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 3: which I always was like, I wonder what that says 267 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 3: about me and my abilities to rise up the rankings. 268 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 3: Another example I'll give is one of my managers had 269 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 3: a beard, and I remember he was talking to his mentor, 270 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 3: who was one of the higher ups at the company, 271 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 3: and he relayed this conversation back to me, who also 272 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 3: has a beard, and he said he looked at me 273 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 3: and says, hey, do you know any managing directors at 274 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 3: this company that have a beard? And he said no, 275 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 3: and he goes, do you think you're going to be 276 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 3: the first? And I remember at that time being like, wow, okay, 277 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 3: so like you are already talking about image and basically 278 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 3: disqualifying someone for what they look like. Well, what you're 279 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 3: never going to say out loud is do you see 280 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 3: any managing directors here who are fat? Do you think 281 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 3: you're going to be the first? You would never say 282 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 3: that out loud, But what you what do is find 283 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 3: ways to marginalize them in other ways. So for me one, 284 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 3: being like one of the few black people, it felt 285 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 3: like on this particular project, also finding out later that 286 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 3: I was underpaid, and then also being fatter than everyone else, 287 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 3: it often felt like I just didn't fit in in 288 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 3: that space. So when I left there and started going 289 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 3: full time audio production, the thing that echoes in my 290 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 3: mind over and over again is looking around the room 291 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 3: and saying, am I the fattest one here? And is 292 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 3: that going to prohibit me from going where I want 293 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 3: to go and whatever this career is? Which I wish 294 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 3: I could be like, yeah, nah, I don't let that 295 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 3: stop me. And it doesn't, you know, get side of 296 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 3: my head all that, But really I think about it 297 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 3: all the time, like it's always like, man, I hope 298 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 3: me being fat doesn't overshadow the other ways in which 299 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 3: I am talented and qualified for whatever this is position 300 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 3: that I'm in. But that's something that's constantly running in 301 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 3: my head all the time. 302 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: That is exhausting. 303 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 3: You know, I'm tired. 304 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: It's like. 305 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: All of the marginalized groups a layered on top of 306 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 2: one another. You feel the weight of that, yeah, constantly. 307 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 2: And that's a way that I feel like a lot 308 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 2: of people. You talked about the body positivity movement, which 309 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 2: I want to talk about a little bit more about now, 310 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: Like folks are trying to shift the way that our 311 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 2: culture views size where it's like, wherever you are, we're 312 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 2: just glad that you're here. 313 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: You know. 314 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 2: That's what I always try and tell folks. I'm like, 315 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 2: whatever you are, I'm happy that you're here with me 316 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 2: right now in this moment. You're perfect because you're alive, 317 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 2: and we've kind of like lost the plot a little bit. 318 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: On the body positivity movement, you talked about the GLP 319 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 2: ones and things like that. Can you just talk about 320 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 2: the efforts that people that aren't in the overweight community, 321 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 2: or or that don't identify themselves as overweight, what they 322 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 2: can do in their day to day to help get 323 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 2: us back on the right track. 324 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 3: I think part of it is being aware of the 325 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 3: ways you, as a straight sized person, are able to 326 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 3: navigate places that a fat person may have trouble navigating. 327 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 3: I think one time I had a friend who asked 328 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 3: me to dinner, and he looked up the restaurant and 329 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 3: then also looked up the chairs and just been like, 330 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 3: look a little bit, the chairs are. 331 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: Now. 332 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,959 Speaker 3: I'm not a super fat person. I'm fat. I'm not 333 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 3: a super fat or infinitive fat, which is like much 334 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 3: much fatter than I am. And a lot of those 335 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 3: folks have even bigger struggles when it comes to just 336 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 3: sitting down in a restaurant to eat. But for me, 337 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 3: I'm thinking about what it takes to sit on a plane. 338 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 3: What are these chairs that you ordered at your wedding, 339 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 3: you know, like you know those little flipsy real nice 340 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 3: in the picture chairs where you sit on one of 341 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 3: those and you hear that little crack, Yes, like the 342 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 3: clear ones and the wooden ones where you hear that 343 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 3: crack and you immediately stand up be like nah, nah na, 344 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 3: I'm not welcome here. I feel like what we could 345 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 3: be doing is like looking at like why are we 346 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 3: not making chairs that like fit the largest of us, 347 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 3: because if they do, then they're also going to fit 348 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 3: the smallest of us, you know what I mean. There's 349 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 3: lots of ways in which we're thinking about design and 350 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 3: disability advocates will say this, like, if we design for disability, 351 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:22,040 Speaker 3: everybody that who is not disabled can still use whatever 352 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 3: like we're using. Like if you put ramps on everything 353 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 3: instead of stairs, everyone can use a ramp. There's no 354 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 3: one out there who's it's easier for me to use 355 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 3: the stairs, that is for me to use this ramp, 356 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 3: And like it's really not like it's an equalizer for 357 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 3: all of us so I think for straight sized folks, 358 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 3: I think it's a matter of saying, like, what ways 359 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 3: can I make the world a better place for everyone? 360 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 3: If you're thinking with an equity mindset, then it won't 361 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 3: just be about weight, It'll be about everything. And I 362 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 3: think that's kind of like what like most fat advocates 363 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 3: and people within fat community are trying to say, which 364 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 3: is like, if you're thinking about the most disabled of us, 365 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 3: then everyone else is going to be fine. There's not 366 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 3: one person that's going to suffer if we're trying to 367 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 3: look out for the most disabled among us. 368 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: I think this is something It feels like a conversation 369 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: that even in my friendship with T T that I 370 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: am sometimes talking to t T about especially I'll say, 371 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,360 Speaker 1: when people want you to show up, it's like they 372 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: haven't considered any of these things. Or when you have 373 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: to be on video, or when you have to sit 374 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: on the stage, nobody, I'm like, first of all, doesn't 375 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: everybody need some back support? I don't know who designed 376 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: those little chairs with the two inch little lip on 377 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: the back. I'm like, I'm busy, I can't even focus 378 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: on what I'm saying. I'm squinching my butt cheeks, Yes, 379 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: trying to stay up right, you know, So there's that. 380 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: I think there is so much hidden load that you 381 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: have to kind of experience to know. And I'm also curious, 382 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: you know. T T touched on this. She talked about 383 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: body positivity. I want to t T, did you have 384 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: anything else you wanted to do before I move us. 385 00:19:58,359 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: I feel like if I start talking, I'm going to 386 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 2: start crying because the kid is always like, you're making 387 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: shit weird. But with what she just said, I feel 388 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 2: awful because there's a lot of stuff that I don't 389 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 2: think about. Like I'm always just like, yeah, my friend 390 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: she's here, look at her. She's so beautiful, she's so smart, 391 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 2: and I'm not considering those things. And like you said, 392 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 2: we have to start thinking more inclusive. And I mean 393 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 2: it starts with your bestie, like it starts with the 394 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 2: people closest to you, because we just move and you 395 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 2: think you're moving with love, but you have this huge 396 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 2: blind spot that you really have to pay attention to 397 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: because there's real hurt in those instances. 398 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 3: I went to dinner with a friend recently, and she 399 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 3: doesn't move around so well because she has like and 400 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 3: joint issues, and I remember we walked up to the 401 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 3: restaurant and it was a place that we wanted to 402 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 3: get ram in specifically. So we walked up to the 403 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 3: restaurant and I opened the doors, and as soon as 404 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 3: I opened the door, there's a straight stairways up before 405 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 3: we can get in, and I remember this is i'll 406 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 3: be one of the first times and I was like, 407 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 3: oh no, because I'm like, I knew that she was 408 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 3: going to struggle to make it up those stairs, and 409 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 3: so I'd like, first of all, look to the side 410 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 3: to see if there was Oh, maybe this isn't a restaurant, 411 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 3: because you know, you walk into those like fancy like 412 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 3: New York at DC places where it's like yep, and 413 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 3: the split level and we're upstairs all of a sudden, 414 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 3: and you're like immediately confronted with the staircase. And I 415 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 3: think that moment t T was when I was like, oh, 416 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 3: I should have been thinking about this, Like this is 417 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 3: something that I did not even consider. What level is 418 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 3: the restaurant on and is there an elevator? You know 419 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,199 Speaker 3: what I mean? And there wasn't. So I helped her 420 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 3: up the stairs and she was perfectly fine, But it 421 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 3: was something that I knew that I'm like in the 422 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 3: future if we do this again, I need to be 423 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 3: thinking about about this. So it's really not about looking 424 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 3: in the past with regret. It's really about looking forward 425 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 3: to the future and saying, what are the opportunities that 426 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 3: I have to like make it easier or more equitable 427 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 3: for everyone. So don't beat yourself up. 428 00:21:54,320 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, Ronald heal me, please, thank you. I like 429 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: this idea of looking to the future. And you've talked 430 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: about the idea of a future self right, and I 431 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,199 Speaker 1: think even if it's stuffed down, I think there are 432 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: so many people that live there waiting for this version 433 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: of them that deserves a thing. I'm wondering for you, 434 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: what does it mean to accept yourself like now, the 435 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: now self, even if you still know there's work ahead, 436 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 1: Because I think the work ahead always exists, And so 437 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: what does it mean to you to accept Ronald? Now? 438 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 3: I think for me and I'll just tell you what 439 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 3: it's been happening because of therapy is I've been looking 440 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 3: at the circumstances of my life right now and saying, 441 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 3: which of these are ingredients to happiness today? Like I'm 442 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 3: sure all of us have opened our refrigerators in our 443 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 3: pantry and been like what can I make right now? 444 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 3: I'm hungry right now? What do I have? And it's 445 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 3: basically looking at what you have and saying do I 446 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 3: have something to do with today? And if I needed 447 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 3: to get something, what do I need to get that 448 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 3: I can get immediately? So I feel like the ways 449 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 3: in which I try to accept myself now was say like, well, 450 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 3: what is making me happy right now in this moment? 451 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 3: Not what will make me happy, not what I imagine 452 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 3: will make me happy, not the goals that are on 453 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 3: my checklist that I know i'll be happy once I 454 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 3: achieve them, but like, what's making me happy now? And 455 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 3: how can I insert more of that into my life 456 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 3: right now? And I feel like if more of us 457 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 3: operated like that, we find ourselves happier in the moment 458 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 3: than just feeling like we're waiting to get there. And 459 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 3: I feel like we're trained in that way too, because 460 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 3: you finish the first grade, you go to the second grade, 461 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 3: you finished sixth grade, you to go to middle school, 462 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 3: so on and so forth, and we like spend the 463 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 3: rest of our lives just like operating on the If 464 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 3: I just get a little bit further then I'll actually 465 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 3: be happy. 466 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 2: I feel like that is everyone. Everyone. We are all 467 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 2: just saying, you know, once this happens, oh my gosh, 468 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 2: and once I get on and I'm gonna be happy, 469 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 2: or oh the trend on TikTok was once I like 470 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 2: attain this thing. 471 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, fill in the blank. 472 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 2: You're like, oh, if I'm a millionaire, you won't know, 473 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 2: but there will be signs like okay, like oh it's 474 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 2: gonna change and all this stuff like that. And I'm 475 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 2: just like what you're saying is so true. Like we're 476 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 2: always delaying our happiness. It's like such a big part 477 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 2: of our culture where it's just like suffer now, enjoy later, 478 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 2: and it doesn't have to be that way. 479 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: And sometimes you look back and what you thought was 480 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: suffering was when you should have been enjoying, because the 481 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: real suffering is upon us. 482 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 3: And did Bernard said it on the office He's like, 483 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 3: I wish somebody had told me that the good old 484 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 3: days were actually the days that we were living in essentially, 485 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 3: you know what I mean, because we always look back 486 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 3: and say, oh man, that was so great, but we 487 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 3: don't even really to enjoy it the way we could 488 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 3: if we knew that what was happening right now would 489 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 3: be one of the best things that was happening to us, 490 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 3: and then we spend the rest of our time trying 491 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 3: to be in the future to be like, well, that 492 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 3: was good, and I'm going to make it happen again 493 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 3: in the future, instead of saying what could I be 494 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 3: doing right now in the moment to make that happy. 495 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 3: So that's the mindset them living in. And I want 496 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 3: to be clear, I know it sounds like man Ronald's 497 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 3: got this down, Pat I'm still figuring this out, Like 498 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 3: I know the elements, but I'm still trying to figure 499 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 3: out how to do that in my own life. So 500 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 3: it is a work in progress, is the shorter answer 501 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 3: to my very long winded response. 502 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: No, I love that because I feel like that's part 503 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 1: of the dangling carrot that we're constantly chasing. It's like, 504 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: I will be happy when this happens and I will 505 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: have it all figured out. Going back to my. 506 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 2: Father in law who's eighty, yeah, yeah, I was talking 507 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 2: to him once and I was like, when did you 508 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 2: have it all figured out? Like he was a very 509 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 2: successful lawyer, he has two great kids, he did really 510 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 2: well for himself and he's retired now, chilling. I was like, 511 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 2: when did you feel like you had it figured out? 512 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,479 Speaker 2: He was like, I'll let you know. And I was 513 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 2: like wow, he was like, yeah, I'll let you know. 514 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 2: There was literally no point where I felt like I 515 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 2: had it figured out. He's like, I'm still trying to 516 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 2: figure out how to be, you know, like a better father, 517 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 2: a better partner, a better uncle. And so then that 518 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 2: like cued me to be like, wow, maybe that's what 519 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,959 Speaker 2: life is about, is just about not being the best, 520 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 2: but just trying to be better, yes, and just trying 521 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 2: to figure it out. And that's the beauty of it. 522 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 2: It's really it really is hard. It's easier said than done, 523 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 2: because I mean I could think of a million things 524 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 2: about myself that I'm like, man, if this was different, 525 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 2: you wouldn't be able to tell me. 526 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: Well, we can't tell you right now, so that's interesting. 527 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, man, you would tell me if I had 528 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: and that it really discredits where I'm at right now 529 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 1: and what it took to get here and the miracle 530 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: that is this life and being able to be here 531 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 1: to be like, oh, if I had this, it would 532 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: be better. It's not fair to me it's not fair 533 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: to pass me, present me, or future me. So I 534 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: mean everything that you're saying really just rings true for 535 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,479 Speaker 1: me and gives me a lot to think about. I 536 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:26,959 Speaker 1: think because we're all struggling. I think everybody is struggling. 537 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 2: And being able to just love yourself now is just 538 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 2: so important. 539 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 540 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about so many things based on what the 541 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: two of you just said. And it felt like Ronald, 542 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: when you were saying, like when you talked about the 543 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: great thing, I was like, yes, you just keep trying 544 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: to graduate. So really, what you're saying is treat every 545 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: day like graduation, And so I think every night should 546 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: be a graduation party if you're doing it right, a 547 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: celebration of the day and what has happened, and meeting 548 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: tomorrow with excitement. I want to know a little bit 549 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,679 Speaker 1: more about like what's coming up on wait for it, 550 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: because I think you have done such a beautiful job 551 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: talking about weight at all these intersections. I love. I 552 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: never remember how to say his name from Very Smart 553 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: Brothers Damon and the piece he had done this piece 554 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: on teeth and we had just done an episode on teeth. 555 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: Teeth with a teeth is a thing. Teeth are. I 556 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: don't know. I'm using that too, And you know, I 557 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 1: feel like society has fixated on weight, and weight has 558 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: had different meanings at different times. But similar to weight, 559 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: we've also seen this kind of pressure attached to the 560 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: aesthetics of teeth, like having really straight teeth, and we 561 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: see it in movie stars, but now we're seeing any 562 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: common people on the street. I mean I'm seeing people. 563 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, that's Hollywood teeth, like very straight, ultra violet, 564 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: very white. Yeah. I feel like when it comes to 565 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: teeth women, it's never okay for a woman to have 566 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: crooked teeth like men will have gaps. We see famous 567 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: men that have gaps or spaces in their teeth, their 568 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: crooked teeth, and they're like, ooh, how that gives them 569 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: so much character or whatever. Michael Strahan, I feel like 570 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: if that was a woman with that gap, that woman 571 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: would not be front and center. 572 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 2: In the most recent season of White Lotus, I love 573 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 2: that show. There is this actress named Amy lou Wood 574 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 2: and she has a very distinct smile. I actually really 575 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 2: loved her smile. I thought it made her so beautiful, 576 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 2: and I was like, I love seeing this on television. 577 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 2: SNL did a spoof of White Lotus and they really 578 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 2: portrayed her teeth really negatively and made fun of the 579 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 2: way that her teeth look and she posted about it 580 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 2: and was like, you know, that's really hurtful and it 581 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 2: just wasn't funny. And these are the things that I 582 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 2: see where it's like, okay, now she was on SNL 583 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 2: being made fun of for her teeth, and these are 584 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 2: things that reinforce, you know, my negative like feelings about 585 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 2: having slightly crooked teeth or teeth that are like different 586 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 2: and not that Hollywood white, Hollywood straight. I grew up 587 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 2: with a I pulled up a picture just for proof 588 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 2: with a very big gap in my teeth, and I 589 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 2: went through hell. 590 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: Hell, hell, hell, that's what you learn how to fight. 591 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 3: You were very cute child t teeth, Thank you. 592 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: I went through hell. 593 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 2: They I felt like the ugliest girl in the world 594 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 2: for a very very long time, and I was like, 595 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 2: as soon as my teeth are straight, I'm gonna be happy. 596 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 2: And even to this day, I've had braces three times 597 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 2: three because of losing retainers and teeth shifting and just 598 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 2: not feeling comfortable with the teeth that I have in 599 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 2: my mouth. People be like, you have a great smile, 600 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 2: and I'd be like, no, I don't. I have a 601 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 2: little space here, a little space there. And so like 602 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 2: three times, it's kind of a lot. And when I 603 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 2: think about it, when I say it out loud, it 604 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 2: sounds crazy. But there was a lot of shame tied 605 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 2: up in these teeth and they're still not perfect. I 606 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 2: still have like a little space here, and it really 607 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 2: can shift, just like how you're moving in this world. 608 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 2: And it's like you're like, oh, why wouldn't it be 609 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: about women, and I'm like, oh, because it's never And 610 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 2: maybe that's something that's in my mind that I put there, 611 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 2: like I'm like, oh, no, no one will ever accept 612 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 2: a woman with a gap in her teeth. But that's 613 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 2: because that's what I told myself. 614 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: That's such a good point and similar to social media 615 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: and society telling us things, I feel like for me 616 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: when it comes to straight teeth, I inherited that from 617 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: my parents and what they said to me about getting braces. 618 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 2: And my parents were the opposite where that when I 619 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 2: wanted to get braces, they were like, why, I really 620 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,480 Speaker 2: love your gap and I was like, close it please. 621 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 2: And now my son it looks like he's going to 622 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 2: have a gap, and I'm like trying, I'm like trying 623 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 2: not to let it. Let whatever I was dealing with, 624 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 2: still dealing with, trickle down to him. And he's self 625 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 2: conscious about it. My parents like, it's don't let him 626 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 2: close his gap. I'm like, if he wants to, he can't. 627 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 2: And but it's all these things. 628 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: Okay, So we talked about weight, We talked about teeth. Ronald, 629 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: do you have a thing in your family that is 630 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: like a no no, or a thing that you inherited 631 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,479 Speaker 1: that there's some shame around. 632 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 3: No, I feel like, yes, well no, okay. I mean 633 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 3: it's weight, but it's not like it's still like my parents, 634 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 3: both my dad and mom have both on different occasions, 635 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 3: made comments about me gaining weight as an adult, right so, 636 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 3: and it's always from the place of like, oh, well, 637 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 3: you know, you got to get in that gym and 638 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 3: walk in a little bit. And it's never made me 639 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 3: feel good, right But they've never held on to it, 640 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 3: and I think that's the good thing about us. But 641 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 3: my mom also struggled with her body image for a 642 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 3: long time until she died. You know, like she started 643 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 3: rapidly losing weight because she had cancer and she got 644 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 3: real small and that was like an indication of fear. 645 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 3: And we talk about that on Waight for it just 646 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 3: being like all of a sudden, This is when the 647 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,479 Speaker 3: fluctuation of weight also has like real stakes attached to it, 648 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 3: you know what I mean, as opposed to like when 649 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 3: we think about it in this more aesthetic way, as 650 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 3: to say, like, you, losing weight is a good thing, 651 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 3: because like look about before and after pictures and all. 652 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 3: That's all of that. So that really kind of changed 653 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 3: my relationship about how I feel when I see people 654 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 3: have lost a great amount of weight, because now my 655 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 3: new question is I wonder if they're okay. 656 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's so interesting because we tie weight in 657 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: health together and behavior in a way that doesn't really 658 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: line up. I just read an article that came out 659 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: in Science a few weeks ago where this group was 660 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: studying this phenomenon they see in mice, and you know, 661 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: we use mice as a proxy to understand health in humans. 662 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: But they were seeing middle aged mice gain a lot 663 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: of weight no matter what they fed them, even if 664 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: they were on a strict diet, and reduce the amount 665 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: of food that they gave them. They're gaining weight every time. Wow, yeah, 666 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: that is crazy. And so this team actually discovered that 667 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: in mice, particularly in male mice, and so they were saying, 668 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: is this like the dad bod phenomenon, but in mail 669 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: mice that they are having a subset of cells. Usually 670 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: the way you can expand fat tissue is to make 671 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 1: the cells bigger. So adipocites fat cells get bigger. They're 672 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: very big compared to other cells in our body. Or 673 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: you can make new fat cells, and there's this subpopulation. 674 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: They're basically like fat stem cells. So and they are 675 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 1: the precursor. All these stem cells activate at a certain 676 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 1: time and in visceral fatness, like in the fat around 677 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: our organs, which is tied to different types of metabolic health, 678 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 1: no matter what your diet is, no matter how much 679 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: exercise you do. And so I think so often we 680 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: use wait as a proxy for discipline or for all 681 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: these things that scientifically we know is not the case. 682 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: And I just think it's so interesting how we know 683 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: these things, which is like a lot of stuff. We 684 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: know these things, but we have these generalizations that we 685 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,760 Speaker 1: make that are completely opposite. And I'm hopeful and curious 686 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: if that's just being naive to think that one day 687 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: will resolve those two and our opinions will catch up 688 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: with what the science is telling us. 689 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think so, Like I don't like, 690 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 3: actually you're wrong. No, I just I'm not. I'm not 691 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 3: optimistic towards our future. Like look at the look at 692 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 3: where we are right now, Like in terms of politics, 693 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 3: we are we're being dragged back to pre civil rights 694 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 3: type of policy in this country. And we all thought 695 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 3: we knew better, Like we were all tricked in the nineties, 696 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 3: two thousands of teens about where we we're going in 697 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 3: terms of progress, and you know, the arc of the 698 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 3: future bids towards progress. This is the first time I've 699 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 3: been fearful about what it does it actually been towards progress, 700 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 3: doctor King, because I don't know if it does based 701 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 3: on what I'm seeing and what they're undoing. And I'm 702 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 3: saying all that to say is like I would hope 703 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 3: that we would be moving towards a more progressive future, 704 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,280 Speaker 3: especially when it comes to body size and body image, 705 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 3: but we would have to reconcile with the ways in 706 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 3: which we've been terrible right now. And I don't think 707 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 3: we're ready to do that as a society yet, based 708 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 3: on the existence of GLP one drugs and the ways 709 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 3: in which they're being rampantly applied to everyone, despite the 710 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 3: very the lack of studies that talk about the long 711 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,200 Speaker 3: term benefits and or risks of using said drugs. And 712 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 3: this isn't to go against anyone who's choosing to use them. 713 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 3: I understand, like I have friends who have used the 714 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,760 Speaker 3: drugs that have buryactic surgery. Your choice is your choice. 715 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 3: But it's really the ways in which, all of a sudden, 716 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 3: I'm watching television and now I'm seeing commercials about it 717 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 3: in a way that just feels icky to me, especially 718 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 3: about the ways in which we're talking about what does 719 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 3: this look like for us in the future. I just 720 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 3: my instinct is to say it's going to look like 721 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 3: more of this in the future, because there's always going 722 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 3: to be some hip way to lose weight that just 723 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 3: always exists. It always has existed, and it feels like 724 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 3: it just always will. All I can hope for is 725 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 3: that we all individually heal ourselves and try to do 726 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 3: the best we can moving forward. And because I just 727 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:37,800 Speaker 3: don't think we're going to get a societal solution. 728 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: Okay, that's fair. So you basically say, yes, naive. 729 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 3: I don't think you're naive. I just I'm concerned, Like, 730 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,879 Speaker 3: if you're right, I'd rather you be right. I'd rather 731 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 3: you be right. I don't want to be right. 732 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:59,720 Speaker 2: It's getting spooky ooky out here. I don't know because 733 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 2: even I mean, the way that celebrities whatever you want 734 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 2: to call them, are using GLP ones, celebrities that are 735 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 2: on like not overweight by anyone's. 736 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: Metric, using it. 737 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, We're like, it's getting dangerous out here, and I'm 738 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 2: not really sure like how we right the ship at 739 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 2: this point, because I mean, when I think back to 740 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 2: when I was a kid, when Ali McBeal came out, 741 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,760 Speaker 2: and it was like everybody was like, oh my gosh, 742 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,479 Speaker 2: she's so thin, she's so thin. But then you had 743 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 2: the birth of the Almond Mom and it just became 744 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 2: a thing where, you know, everybody wanted to be super 745 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,919 Speaker 2: super thin. And then you see this this slight shift 746 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 2: when you have the Kardashians and their body enhancements that 747 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 2: they've done via surgery, and so then everybody was like, Okay, 748 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 2: now I want a little bit of curve. But then 749 00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 2: now they're reducing their curves, getting you know, their their butts, reduce, 750 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 2: their breast reduced to get a more slimmer size, and 751 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 2: so now people are trying to course correct. 752 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:16,280 Speaker 1: To fit that too. I'm like, this is too much, Ronald. 753 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: Thank you for being here and sharing all of this. Yes, 754 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 1: and we have touched on so many things. We see, 755 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 1: all the long tentacles of weight and body image and acceptance, 756 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: you know, just touching all. 757 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:33,399 Speaker 2: These other areas things, And just like you know in 758 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 2: any science or critical thinking, even though we answered some 759 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 2: questions for ourselves and we're able to move through some 760 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 2: of these things and come to a resolution, it does 761 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 2: bring up more questions like will things change? 762 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. 763 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,920 Speaker 2: Maybe I think it starts with each of us and 764 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 2: on learning a lot of things, un learning tying our 765 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 2: self acceptance, our self worth, to our weight and the 766 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 2: way that we look. And you know, it's easier said 767 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 2: than done. I'm not saying that like, Okay today I 768 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 2: no longer care about these things. No, but we have 769 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 2: to be willing to put in the work, not just 770 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,359 Speaker 2: for ourselves but for everyone around us, because when we 771 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 2: start to change our way of thinking and unlearned some 772 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 2: of these things that our society has placed on us 773 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 2: and carry a weight of that. It reverberates people feel 774 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 2: that and then they are more likely to start accepting themselves. 775 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: So so true. If you like this lab, I think 776 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: you will also enjoy our lab that's called Jiggly that 777 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: talks about shapewear and how society told women what they 778 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,879 Speaker 1: should be shaped and looked like. Yes, and I think 779 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: you also enjoy our lab with Doctor Montioid hairs called 780 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: Edges Snatched, where we talk about the kind of same 781 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: thing but with hair and all the procedures people are 782 00:40:55,960 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: doing because of the value society has placed on hair. Huh. 783 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. I want to be hopeful. But also 784 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 1: today's graduation day TT is graduation day for us, so 785 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,880 Speaker 1: we will celebrate and we will not look ahead and 786 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: think the better times are coming, but we will accept 787 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,359 Speaker 1: that the better times are right here, are here, right 788 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 1: now with us. I love you, friend, I love you too. 789 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 2: You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope 790 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 2: Labs podcast TT. 791 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: Is on X and Instagram at d R Underscore t Sho. 792 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,360 Speaker 2: And you can find Takia at z said. 793 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,240 Speaker 1: So. Dope Labs is a production of Lamanada Media. 794 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 2: Our senior supervising Producer is Kristin Lapour and our Associate 795 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,240 Speaker 2: producer is Issara Seves. 796 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,320 Speaker 1: Dope Labs is sound design, edited and mixed by James 797 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,240 Speaker 1: farber Lamanada Media is Vice President of Partnerships and Production 798 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:59,800 Speaker 1: is Jackie Danziger. Executive producer from iHeart Podcast is Katrina. 799 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:05,360 Speaker 1: Marketing lead is Alison Kanter. Original music composed and produced 800 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: by Taka Yatsuzawa and Alex sudi Ura, with additional music 801 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: by Elijah Harvey. Dope Lab is executive produced by us 802 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 1: T T Show Dia and Kia Wattley.