1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you from How Supports Nott. 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: Come hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 1: I'm Caroline. And today we're talking about the Mother of 4 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: the World. Not Gaya. Oh, not not the character from 5 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: Captain Planet. No. No, we're talking about cultural anthropologist Margaret 6 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: Mead and Caroline. Of course we both knew who Margaret 7 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: Mead was, and she's one of the most important women 8 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, one of the most important academics 9 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: and thinkers and speakers. But I didn't know that much 10 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: about her, you know, and really her impact. Yeah, I 11 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: had no idea either how far reaching her impact was, 12 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: both in terms of sexuality. She fixed a lot on sexuality, 13 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: but also gender roles and the way that Western society 14 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: maybe doesn't do it right in terms of raising their adolescence. Yeah, 15 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: and there were and are still academics who raise an 16 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: eyebrow at her methodology and the way she approached her 17 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: studies and then applied them to social issues of the time. 18 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: But in terms of women trailblazers and who I mean 19 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: she she was one of those people who just seemed 20 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: so singularly focused on her place in the world and 21 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: so unconcerned with what other people thought about her. Oh yeah, 22 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: I mean she pursued with the greatest thirst knowledge about 23 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: everything around her. And I mean, as we'll talk about that, 24 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: that's essentially how she was raised. She was raised to 25 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: just watch and observe and take notes on the world 26 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: around her. And Caroline she fascinates me down to her 27 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: signature wardrobe because she not only had this sort of 28 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: signature bob haircut that she wore, but she also always 29 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: wore a cape and walked with a stick, a forked 30 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,119 Speaker 1: stick because she like twisted her ankle I think when 31 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: she was not that old and just like kept walking 32 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: with it. And in nineteen sixty nine, Time magazine described 33 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: her as quote looking like a cross between a stern 34 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: schoolmarm and an impish which which is fantastic. Yeah, it's 35 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: so funny. If that were anyone else, I would think 36 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: that was a negative description, But I mean, I think 37 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: she's so fantastic. And I don't know what Time meant 38 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: necessarily with that tone, but she is great and she 39 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: had an incredible look to her which was just as 40 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: unique as she herself was. And one of her most 41 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: famous quotes that does reflect her worldview in a lot 42 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,959 Speaker 1: of ways is very much kindred to stuff Mom never 43 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: told you's ethos. So she once said, never doubt that 44 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Um. 45 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: So who was she though we mentioned anthropology, So she was, yes, 46 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: an anthropologist. She was a leading academic of her day, 47 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: male or female. She did not like being described as 48 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: a leading female thinker because she was, I mean, among 49 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: the best. And she was an intellectual instigator of the 50 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: sexual revolution and also second wave feminism. Yeah, and she 51 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: sought to apply her background and focus in anthropology and 52 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: social science to solving issues like childhood education and also 53 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: mental health. Not everybody loved her. There were certainly people 54 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: who took issue with her from her own time up 55 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: to now, and who have tried very hard to discredit 56 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: her and her research. But she has contributed a lot 57 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: who are understanding of other cultures, are understanding that the 58 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: West is not the best, that different cultures can be 59 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: equally as great, but just different. Yeah, And looking back 60 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: at everything that she did, especially in the second half 61 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: of her life, she just comes across as so endlessly curious, 62 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: constantly absorbing new knowledge and then spreading it. Back out 63 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: into the world. So The New York Times noted in 64 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: her obituary that the American Natural History Museum once listed 65 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: her specialties as quote, education and culture, relationships between character, 66 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: structure and social forms, personality and culture, cultural aspects of 67 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:49,799 Speaker 1: problems of nutrition, mental health, family life, ecology, atistics, transnational relations, 68 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: national character, cultural change, and culture building. So I mean, 69 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: not not much. Just yeah, just a cursory knowledge of 70 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: a couple of things. Yeah, I love it. Becau has 71 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: the descriptions of her It's often mentioned just how often 72 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: she lectured. She would deliver a ton of lectures every year, 73 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: and they were always on wildly different topics. And there 74 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: was even a quirky note I think was in her 75 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: New York Times obituary that she delivered so many lectures 76 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: so often and was also just so well versed in 77 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: so many diverse topics that she might show up at 78 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: like a men's luncheon or something and talk about the 79 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: sexual habits of a certain culture. She would get some 80 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: of her topics mixed up just because she was like, 81 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: I'm on a train and are a plane to some 82 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: other city. Now, oh yeah, she delivered the sexuality talk 83 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: to like a clergy group. I got it mixed up. 84 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: But she would even lecture on like very esoteric subjects 85 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: about the particular linguistics of the small cultural group in 86 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: the South Pacific. But she could go on and on 87 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: and on and was very engaging. Yea some he was 88 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: saying that, Oh, they raised a hand and asked a 89 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: question about this one group's use of a certain type 90 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,239 Speaker 1: of nut in their in their diet. And she talked 91 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: about it at such length that you would have thought 92 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: that that was her main academic focus in life. I mean, 93 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: t ld R. I'm jealous of Margaret Mead's brain period. 94 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: And she was also astoundingly prolific. She wrote over twenty books, 95 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: co authored even more, and some of the titles include 96 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: Coming of Age in Samoa, which is probably her most 97 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: famous book. She also wrote in ve Sex and Temperament 98 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: in Three Primitive Societies, which we'll talk about more. She 99 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: also wrote in ninety nine Male and Female, a study 100 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: of the sexes in a Changing World, which Betty for 101 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: Dan would have a thing or two to say about. 102 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: And then in nineteen seventy two her autobiography was BlackBerry Winter. Yeah, 103 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: so poetic, but herself was very poetics some of the 104 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: first stuff, some of the first writing that she published 105 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: was literally poetry. I mean, she was she could do 106 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: it all, and so much of that is because of 107 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: her incredible background well in Caroline. Speaking of poetry, I 108 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: think it's time to let our listeners know about where 109 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: she came from. So in West Philadelphia, and I did 110 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: know one there were some Quaker parents having some fun. 111 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: And that's all we've got, listeners, But we've got really 112 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: excited when we realized that we could do the Fresh 113 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: Prince theme for just the first half line of her bio. Yeah, 114 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: so she knows she literally was born in Philadelphia to 115 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: Quaker parents. And side note, I mean I might go 116 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: back to this after we get out of the studio 117 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: and really try to flesh it out. So listeners, if 118 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: you if you'd like me to do some old school 119 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: women's history raps. Oh they do, let us know. I 120 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: can hear them screaming, Yes, she was born, like you 121 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: said to Quaker parents were also social scientists. Her dad, 122 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: Edward was an economist and Emily was a social reformer 123 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: and suffragists. And she was really a true child of 124 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: the progressive era. And she was the oldest of five 125 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: although one of her sisters, Catherine, died at nine months, 126 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: which was really devastating for her because she actually named 127 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: that baby. Yeah, I side out love the Quakers. I 128 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: told Kristin this, and she gave me a look like, 129 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: what are you talking about? I didn't know this about you. Yeah, 130 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: I love the Quakers because A I do have a 131 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: lot of Quakers in my ancestry. B b oat mail, 132 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: which I just can't like oat me. I'm sorry, but see, um, 133 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: the Quakers are just an incredible force in American history. 134 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: And I in fascinated by how so many of our 135 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: early abolitionists and feminists and suffragists came out of the 136 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: abolition movement, and so here we have. I was so 137 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: delighted to see that she also came out of this tradition. 138 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: And anyway, I think her family dynamics are fascinating too 139 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: and so sweet. For instance, her dad nicknamed her Punk, 140 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: and when her little brother Richard came along, she became 141 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: the original Punk, not girl punk. He in fact, was 142 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: called the boy Punk. Yeah. And and about that, Mead 143 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: wrote quote a reversal of the usual pattern, according to 144 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: which the girl is only a female version of the 145 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: true human being. The boy, which sounds a lot like 146 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: what we've talked about on the podcast before in terms 147 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: of the male being the kind of the baseline normal. 148 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: But here's the thing, though, her dad super cute that 149 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 1: he called her the original punk, but he was still 150 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: a man of his generation as well. He once commented 151 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 1: that it was too bad that she was a girl 152 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: because he had really had high hopes to, you know, 153 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: have a really impressive child. Um. But you know, she 154 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: would go on to prove him wrong in that regard, yeah, exactly. 155 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: And helping in that early development was her dad's mother, 156 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: Martha Adeline Ramsey Mead, who helped raise her while her 157 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: mom pursued her own studies and research. And her grandmother 158 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: sounds like a fascinating character because she thought that being 159 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: cooped up indoors was terrible and she had the kids 160 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: go out a lot and observe the outdoors, observed nature. 161 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: And so this was also a true part of the 162 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: progressive era about worrying about urban children being locked up 163 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: inside for too long and being separate from nature. And 164 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: while Margaret and her siblings formal education was a little 165 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: bit spotty, they only went to school occasionally, uh they 166 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: did rely on Martha, their grandmother, and local artists to 167 00:10:54,480 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: instruct the kids in everything from writing and observation and 168 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: research to art sculpture drawing. I mean, these were pretty 169 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: well rounded kids. And one thing that her mom and 170 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: grandmother both tasked Margaret with doing was taking notes on 171 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: her siblings development, because they were all about notes that 172 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: like tracking, you know, what time they were feeding, how 173 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: they were sleeping, what they were doing. And this really 174 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: laid the foundation for future anthropological research. I mean, all 175 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: the field notes that Margaret would take throughout her professional life, 176 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: and the Library of Congress has a lot of these 177 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: childhood notes, and I thought it was so funny that. 178 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: I Mean, part of the reason why she also took 179 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: notes was because the family moved a lot, apparently, so 180 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: she would write down addresses and sort of like who 181 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: was around and where they were to keep up with 182 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: all of that. But when it came to just keeping 183 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 1: a personal diary, she wasn't as great at it. But 184 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: when it came to just you know, taking being tabs 185 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: on how her siblings diets were progressing, she was great well. 186 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: And and that's something that her mother had done too. 187 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: When she was pregnant with Margaret She tracked everything that 188 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: she felt an experienced while she was pregnant, and then 189 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: that continued after Margaret was born. She would keep notes 190 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: on how her daughter was developing. So this is definitely 191 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: a family of social scientists. So in ninety Margaret has 192 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: already started college. She started out at DePaul University, didn't 193 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: really like it and transfers to Barnard and she skips 194 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: around a little bit. She starts off as an English 195 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: major and then goes into psychology and then ends up 196 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: in anthropology after taking a class with Franz Boas, who's 197 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: considered the father of anthropology and thankfully and also delightfully 198 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: a critic of social Darwinism and eugenics, so which was 199 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: surprisingly rare for a guy like that at the time. Yeah, 200 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: super rare in that era. Yeah, eugenics was horrifyingly popular. 201 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Um. But boas Is research assistant was 202 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: a woman named Ruth Benedict, and they really together, Boas 203 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: and Benedict lit a fire in need not only just 204 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: for anthropology, but to document remote cultures that hadn't been 205 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:25,319 Speaker 1: touched by industrialization. Um. And because you know, the ideas, 206 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 1: you know, westernization comes along and kind of just destroys 207 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: cultures and it's wake. And so she ends up studying 208 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: under Boas for her master's and PhD at Columbia, and Boas, 209 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: being her mentor, thought that Mead should study Native American adolescents, 210 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: but Mead was like, sorry, I've got this whole thing 211 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: of like traveling my own path and doing what I want. 212 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: So she ends up going to Polynesia and she focuses 213 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: on Samoan culture. So over nine thirty nine she studied 214 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: seven cultures around Polynesia and Indonesia, focusing especially on how 215 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: culture shaped adolescent development. And out of this some of 216 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: our earliest ideas about this whole thing we talked about 217 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:14,839 Speaker 1: all the time on stuff I've never told you called 218 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: gender roles. Delicious, delicious, tasty, piping hot gender roles comes 219 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: out of this, and need was especially interested to find 220 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: out whether the pain of adolescence, and especially female adolescents, 221 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: was nature or nurture. So in she publishes this little 222 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: book you might have heard of, called Coming of Age 223 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: in Samoa, and for the most part it is your 224 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: basic field study of these young Samoans and how they're 225 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: growing up. But there I think it's like two chapters 226 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: where she really focuses in on sexuality, and she came 227 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: to a pretty radical conclusion, right, Yeah, she freaked everybody 228 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: out because she said that, hey, your adolescence doesn't have 229 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: to be this period of neuroticism. You don't have to 230 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: be so worried about everything and so repressed. And she 231 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: says that, look, look at these Samoan girls. They're having 232 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: a great time and adolescents and they're not dealing with 233 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: the neuroticism of American youth because they're not as bound 234 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: to restrictive gender roles as American girls are. But also 235 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: the idea that pre marital sex and extramarital sex wasn't 236 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: a huge deal. Adolescents were permitted to experiment, so to speak, 237 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: but not so much experimenting and like getting freaky, just 238 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: like allowing themselves to explore their developing sexuality, yeah, without 239 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: that risk of slut shaming. And she really painted that 240 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: idea of exploration versus repression as a part of healthy development. 241 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: And this book was hugely popular and really put her 242 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: on the map. But as we'll get into a little 243 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: bit later, the fanfare wouldn't always be so favorable. Um, 244 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: but she continues her work. I mean she this book 245 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: Coming of Agents Samoa was more of the layman's guide 246 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: to this. She would also come back and write a 247 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: more academic take on the whole experience. I mean she's 248 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: continually traveling and doing these this field research um. So 249 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: in ninety five, for instance, she really begins digging into 250 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: nature versus nurture when it comes to gender roles and 251 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: temperament for what would become the book Sex and Temperament, 252 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: which was based on field studies in Papua New Guinea. Yeah, 253 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: and in her work, she broke ground by separating the 254 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: ideas of biological sex from culturally constructed gender differences. So 255 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: drawing that line between hey, gender is almost inflicted on us, 256 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: whereas sex is the more biological component, and you can 257 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: see the groundwork being laid of her cultural determinism. That 258 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: would attract criticism because she really really really clung onto 259 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: this idea and promoted this idea that it's not so 260 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: much in a differences between men and women, but rather 261 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: culture's role in shaping these gender roles that separate us. Right, 262 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 1: one of the big things that she points out is like, hey, 263 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: when you look at different cultures and you see that 264 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: in one culture, men are responsible for this thing, and 265 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: another culture the woman is responsible for the thing. But 266 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 1: in the culture where the man is responsible for it, 267 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: that thing, whatever it is, is viewed more highly because 268 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: the man is doing it. And she said that that's 269 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that she found to be true 270 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: across cultures, not necessarily the actual gender roles that were 271 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: being filled, so like, whether it was the hunting or 272 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: the cooking, or the protecting of the village or whatever, 273 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: it was the simple fact that when a man does it, 274 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: it does tend to be more highly valued. Yeah, And 275 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: and in doing so, she's also laying the groundwork for 276 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: the second way feminism. Not to get ahead of ourselves, 277 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: but I mean, think about this. This is going on 278 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: and coming out in the popular press in the nineteen thirties, 279 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: you know, Like I mean, I can only imagine the 280 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: reception at the time of someone suggesting this in the 281 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: United States, when gender roles are still just so so 282 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 1: very restricted. Because this is also the same time that 283 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: Indiana Jones has gone about doing his thing, you know, 284 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: And so I bet he probably wasn't necessarily on board 285 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: with everything she had to say. Do you think they 286 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: have a cross paths? I don't know. I mean maybe 287 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,239 Speaker 1: I feel like he was more in like Germany and 288 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: in the Middle East. Well, speaking of Germany. UM, So 289 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: world War two happens. Like by this point though World 290 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: War Two, she's already gone to Bali and lived there 291 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: with her third husband, and they completed this massive visual 292 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: anthropological cole i s of over thirty five thousand photos 293 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: and film strips, which was unprecedented at the time. But 294 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: because of World War Two, access to the South Pacific 295 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: is closed off. So Need and Ruth Benedict, that former 296 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: research assistant of Franz Boas, found the Institute for Intercultural Studies. 297 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: And it's also around this time that her field work 298 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: in those distant cultures begins tapering off. And this is 299 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: also a point to note that we are going through 300 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: her biography with a broad brush just because she did 301 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: so much um but with World War Two, her focus 302 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: and her work really does shift more state side. Yeah. 303 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: And so after the war she does return to Manus 304 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: Island and Papua New Guinea to study the impact of 305 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: people's exposure to the wider world thanks to warfare, and 306 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: this trip ends up informing her beliefs in culture shaping 307 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 1: societal ills like racism and environmental mistreatment. It and it 308 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: ultimately prompts her famous quote that Kristen said about never 309 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: doubting that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can 310 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: change the world, and in this case it's for better 311 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: or for worse. So in addition to founding the Institute 312 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: for Intercultural Studies and being a university lecturer, she she 313 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: also became a curator for the American Natural History Museum 314 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: and a very busy public speaker. Like we mentioned earlier, 315 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: um and she would speak at venues like museum talks, 316 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: but also congressional hearings, late night talk shows U N summits. 317 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: She had regular magazine columns in places like read Book 318 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: and more so her voice was everywhere right. And I 319 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: think it is because of stuff like that that she 320 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: is such a huge figure. I mean, obviously she contributed 321 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: so much to academian, to our understanding of other cultures 322 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: and sexuality, amongst so many other topics. But it is 323 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: the fact that she was so accessible that helped. I mean, 324 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: her books are very readable, and I know that sounds 325 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: silly to say about a book, but I mean that's 326 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: a big deal when you're coming from like an academic perspective, 327 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: she was in incredibly readable, very accessible, and so here's 328 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: a woman that you might have delivering a speech in 329 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: a very academic setting, but you're also reading her column 330 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: and read book like my mom reads read book, you know. 331 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: I mean, it allowed a huge swath of the population 332 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: to become familiar with her and her ideas, right because 333 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, her field studies really fostered 334 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: what would become activism. Um in nineties six though, she 335 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: died from cancer, and she was posthumously awarded the Presidential 336 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: Medal Medal of Freedom in nineteen among so many other 337 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: accolades that she would garner over the years. She was 338 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: also elected president of the American Association for the Advancement 339 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: of Science, which was a huge deal because I want 340 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: to say she was only the second woman to ever 341 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,239 Speaker 1: be in that position. And also during her tenure she 342 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,439 Speaker 1: did a lot in terms of enacting policies to be 343 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: more accepting of women and people who were not straight 344 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: white men. We've talked a lot already about her role 345 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: in the development of second way feminism and in changing 346 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: attitudes towards sex and sexuality. And you better believe that 347 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:33,719 Speaker 1: we're going to tell you a lot more about that 348 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: after a quick break. So, despite the fact that Margaret 349 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: Meade's own mother had been a suffragist, Mead herself did 350 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: not self label as a feminist, And like Kristen said, 351 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: if you called her a female scientist or a female 352 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: this or that, she was it down with the descriptors. 353 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: She just wanted to be known and appreciated for her 354 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: work itself. But that work did intersect with the whole 355 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: idea behind Second Way feminism, since her research focused on 356 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: how culture shapes gender roles. Yeah. So in nine the 357 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: publication of Male and Female, a Study of the Sexes 358 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: in a Changing World, was pretty groundbreaking. The New York Times, 359 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: for instance, hailed quote Dr Mead's book has come to 360 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: grips with a cold war between the sexes and has 361 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: shown the basis of a lasting sexual piece. So, as 362 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: we've mentioned a number of times now, she really was 363 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: laying the foundation for all the conversations that we have 364 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,719 Speaker 1: today in terms of gender constructs and roles and what 365 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: that really means and how they play out. Um Now. Interestingly, though, 366 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: Betty for Dan, author of The Feminine Mystique, would later 367 00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: criticize her essentialist portrait of motherhood in a book Male 368 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 1: and Female, because I mean there were there were some 369 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: quotes that could raise eyebrows, such as quote, differences insects 370 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 1: as they're known today are based on the bringing up 371 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: by the mother. She's always pushing the female towards similarity, 372 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 1: in the male toward difference. So I could see how 373 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 1: for Dan might say, hey, that's an unfair generalization. Although 374 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: for Dan considered herself an heir to Margaret Mead's research 375 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: and legacy. Right, Yeah, there was a quote about how 376 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: she had done her part to further feminism or she 377 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: had taken feminism as far as she could, and so 378 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: for Dan saw herself as the heir to Mead's work, 379 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: which I think is funny. But she's putting that on herself. Yeah, 380 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's quite a statement to make. Um. 381 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 1: And and unfortunately Margaret Meade, you know, didn't live long 382 00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: enough to really be able to respond. Um. But even 383 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: though me didn't directly identify as a feminist, which some 384 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: think rooted back to her childhood rebellion against her mother, 385 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: she definitely got it. I mean, she publicly dismantled the 386 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: idea that feminists have penis envior just want to be men, 387 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 1: but rather that we were striving to access cultural privileges 388 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: exclusively offered or at least made far more accessible to men. 389 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: And she understood conflicting demands to be a homemaker, child reader, 390 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 1: and income earner, and would encourage social networks and support 391 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: for working moms. I mean, and she really did, especially 392 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 1: later in her life, become very outspoken about gender equality 393 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: and women's rights. Yeah, and in terms of the sexual revolution, 394 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: though it's not surprising that the author of Coming of 395 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: Age in Samoa, which focuses a lot on sexual roles 396 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: in sexual behavior, should be cited as a vanguard of 397 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: the sexual revolution in America. And Nancy look a House, 398 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: who's the author of Margaret Mead The Making of an 399 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: American Icon, wrote that Coming of Agents Mill was considered 400 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: to exhibit the new attitude of openness toward the topic 401 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: of sexuality as well as to promote the practice of it. 402 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 1: And this was reflected to somewhat and needs personal life 403 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 1: and her relationships because they were quite revolutionary for the 404 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: time as well. She once famously said, to paraphrase, that 405 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: everyone should get married three times once we're leaving home 406 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: and basically doing it when you're young, wants to have kids, 407 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: and once for companionship. And she also once wrote that 408 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: quote one can love several people and that demonstrative affection 409 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 1: has its place in different types of relationships. Yeah, she's 410 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: got a fascinating I mean not to sound like I'm gossiping, 411 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: but she she doesn't have a fascinating background when it 412 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: comes to her love life because she had deep and 413 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: lasting relationships with both men and women. And for instance, 414 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: her first marriage was to Luther Cressman, who's a seminarian. 415 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,360 Speaker 1: They got secretly engaged when she was just sixteen. They 416 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: got married when she was twenty one, but by the 417 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,719 Speaker 1: time she was twenty seven, they've gotten divorced. But that 418 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: wasn't just like one linear story of one person. In 419 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: between there, she had an affair with this New Zealand 420 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: man named Rio Fortune, which absolutely sounds like the hero 421 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: in a romance novel. Uh And their story sounds like 422 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: one too. She met him on her journey to Samoa. 423 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: They had an affair while she was still married to Cressman, 424 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: and then they got married after she divorced him. And 425 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: then while she was married to Fortune, while they're out 426 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: doing field work, they meet this dazzling New Zealand anthropologist 427 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,719 Speaker 1: named Gregory Bateson, and a love triangle ensues for a while, 428 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: and then she finally ends up ditching Fortune for Bateson, 429 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: whom she has her daughter Catherine with and ultimately divorces 430 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: fifteen years later. But I mean it really seems like 431 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: when she talks about bates and when you think about 432 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: their years in Bali together, you know, collecting those tens 433 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: of thousands of photographs and film, that he was that 434 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: companion marriage. I mean, she got the kid and the 435 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: companion in the same the same union. Yeah. But kind 436 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: of threading through all of this, all of these loves 437 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: and marriages is also relationships with women. I mean, when 438 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: she was at Barnard, she had several love affairs with 439 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: other female students, and she ended up spending her golden 440 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: years with fellow anthropologist Rhoda Metro. But there was one 441 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 1: woman in particular who was a constant in her life, 442 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: that's right. Her academic mentor turned long term lover was 443 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: Ruth Benedict Franz Boaz's research assistant. They worked together throughout 444 00:28:53,520 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: the years, but there was always this undercurrent of passion. Um. 445 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: There's a book recently published to Cherish the life selected 446 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: letters of Margaret Meade that really reveal the intensity of 447 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: the intimacy between these two women that also spanned both 448 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: of their marriages. Yeah, one line from one of the 449 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: letters that really struck me was when Margaret wrote, and 450 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: a day like today, when I've worked from dawn to 451 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: dusk without stopping, I feel very peaceful and it is 452 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: such a joy to go to sleep loving you, loving 453 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: you and waken so so. Anthropologist or not, she remained 454 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: a poet throughout her life, especially in her passionate love 455 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: letters to Ruth. Well, and they it seemed like they 456 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: corresponded to about a lot of what she wrote about 457 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: in terms of sexuality and gender roles and like what 458 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: all of that meant, and the idea of monogamy and restrictiveness, 459 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: because I mean, it's so clearly did not fit with 460 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,959 Speaker 1: her personal desires and experience. Yeah. And I think it 461 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: was in a letter that she wrote when she was 462 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: basically on her way to go Mary Rio Fortune Rio, 463 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: I was about to start singing that song um where 464 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: she basically is talking to Ruth about how silly and 465 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: almost arbitrary the straight versus gay heterosexual versus homosexual man 466 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: and woman and woman and man distinctions are and that 467 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: everyone she, she writes, has the capacity to love and 468 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: be attracted to everyone else, which is something that you know, 469 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: definitely was not a common way of thinking at the time. 470 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: And one thing that didn't come up in what we 471 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: read about Margaret Meat, although I'm sure it's out there 472 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: if we look at more in depth biographies of her, 473 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: is how her personal life and especially getting divorced and 474 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: remarried a number of times like she did, how that 475 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: you know, paint painted or painted the public's perception of 476 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: her and her work because she is one of the 477 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: only female academics at such a high level and with 478 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: such you know, renown, And I wonder if you know, 479 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: as is often the case, um, if her personal life ever, 480 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: you know, attempted to be used against her. I don't know, 481 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: And I mean before we went we came into record, 482 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: I asked Kristen why she thought that Margaret Meade even 483 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: bothered getting married. And that's not to say that she 484 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: wasn't attracted to men and didn't love these men that 485 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: she married, but if her love for Ruth was so 486 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 1: like spiritually enriching and deeply overwhelming. I mean, why not 487 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: just either not marry the men or or live with 488 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: Ruth or something. And I don't have the answer to that. Well, 489 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: I think it's partially too because it seems like she 490 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: could be in love with multiple people at the same 491 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: time too, you know, so it was never just a 492 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: question of a singular love for her um Now. Certainly, though, 493 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: we should note that her relationships with women would not 494 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: have been in the public eye because like those letters 495 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: written to Ruth weren't publicly released until two thousand one, 496 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: so that wouldn't have caused any scandal of time. But 497 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: what did cause a scandal was, you know, some some 498 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: consternation about her research methods, accusations of her fitting results 499 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: to suit her hypotheses, inserting herself too much in her 500 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: subjects lives, and really just being a cultural determinist to 501 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: a faulty and a lot of people then and some 502 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: now take issue with her spelling out how different cultures 503 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: ways of doing things could apply to Western society too. 504 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: There was basically the finger wagging of like, no, you 505 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: just need to observe and make your notes and write 506 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: your book and then don't extrapolate any of those things 507 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: don't basically write the Atlantic think piece about your own book. Margaret, Well, 508 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: it reminded me of the you know, criticisms of quote 509 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: unquote activist judges, because she was very much an activist academic. Yeah. 510 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,719 Speaker 1: And one of her biggest, sort of ugliest critics was 511 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: New Zealand born anthropologist Derek Freeman. And he was so 512 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: i mean just determined to discredit her to the point 513 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: where she even met up with him in nineteen sixty 514 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: four to talk about some of his concerns around her 515 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: methodology and results. But he was so determined to sort 516 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: of tear her down and show her to be a 517 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: fraud that his books about her sort of overtook Mead's 518 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: own contributions to anthropology. People started to take what Freeman 519 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: wrote as gospel. Yeah, I mean, it really did seem 520 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: like it became his life goal to take down Margaret 521 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: made because you know, that meeting between them was in 522 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four, and the Library of Congress even has 523 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: correspondence that she wrote to him, you know, following up 524 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 1: on some of his questions about her methods. And it 525 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: wasn't until three though, years after she had died, talked 526 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: about kicking someone while they're down, uh, that he publishes 527 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 1: through Harvard University Press, Margaret meet and Samoa then making 528 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: an unmaking of an anthropological myth. Yeah, and so he 529 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: discredits her interviews with two Samoan girls who had discussed 530 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: their sexual activity, and Freeman basically said, you were duped. 531 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: These girls were pulling your leg. They were just teasing. 532 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: But the way that he pursued his research was to 533 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,720 Speaker 1: have one of these women's sons, who was a staunch Christian, 534 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: interview his now Christian mother in order to you know, 535 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 1: supposedly quote unquote correct Meads blasphemous uh and awfully and 536 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: terribly controversially sexy uh interviews with his mom. It was 537 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: too sexy mother, too sexy to sexy. Well, that was 538 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: the thing. He told his mom that the purpose of 539 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,960 Speaker 1: the interview was to you know, correct this major insult 540 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: that was manifest in that book. So more recently, you 541 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: see Boulder anthropologist Paul Shankman painstakingly reviewed meads notes and 542 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 1: Derek Freeman's research and righted the record in two thousand 543 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: nine The Trashing of Margaret Mead Anatomy of an Anthropological Controversy. 544 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: And also he published a follow up two thousand eleven 545 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: analysis that only provided more evidence in favor of Mead. Yeah, 546 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 1: so basically he points out that this Freeman guy had 547 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,800 Speaker 1: interviewed entirely different groups of people from entirely different villages 548 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,439 Speaker 1: in Samoa and points out, like, hey, it's not like 549 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: the same village culture in each place, Like everybody's different 550 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: they you know, so interviewing different people twenty years later 551 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 1: isn't going to produce the same result that Margaret Meade 552 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: found necessarily, especially if you're interviewing anitarily different village. He 553 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 1: also points out that Freeman used to contact universities and 554 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: demand that they revoke his opponent's PhD. So this guy 555 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: just sounds like a modern day like troll, but he 556 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:31,320 Speaker 1: was so successful. Yeah, he really Harvard University Press for sure. 557 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: And so what Shankman uncovered is that meat is what 558 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: Mead really drew on for her conclusions for her book. Yeah, 559 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: so it was based on interviews with adolescent girls of 560 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: whom over or sexually active. Now, what is true, as 561 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: a piece in the Atlantic talks about is how Incoming 562 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: of Age in Samoa, Mede definitely downplay some of the 563 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: uglier aspects of of Owen sexuality and kind of paints 564 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,879 Speaker 1: it to be like, oh, it's all healthy exploration. Let's 565 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 1: not mention things like rape or physical punishment if you 566 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,760 Speaker 1: violate sexual norms, etcetera, etcetera. But she did not completely invent, 567 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: as Freeman suggested, this idea of, you know, a culture 568 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: where sex was permitted outside the bounce of marriage. Yeah, 569 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: and you know what she would have said to Freeman, piffle. 570 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 1: Apparently that was another thing noted in her New York Times. 571 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: Oh bit was that her typical response to her critics, 572 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: because she got it, I'm sure all the time, because 573 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: when you're a public figure, you're just gonna have to 574 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: deal with that. Um. And just imagine if she lived 575 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,280 Speaker 1: today having to deal with Twitter. My gosh, she would 576 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,359 Speaker 1: probably just have like an auto bought set up with 577 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: oh piffle to read to respond, can we do that? 578 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: We probably can, Caroline, But that would be her her 579 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: usual response of just like, oh piffle whatever, just like 580 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 1: brushed it off. She was very easy about it. Well, 581 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: I'm so I'm so grateful that Shankman uncovered the stuff 582 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: about Freeman, because we were really sort of in a 583 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: dangerous period, teetering on believing that all of this stuff 584 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: that Freeman said was was true, that so many people 585 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 1: used his words as uh proof that Margaret Meade was 586 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: just some hack. Yeah, I mean Coming of Age is 587 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: by no means a perfect text in a lot of 588 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: ways is outdated and anthropology classes today, But I mean 589 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: trying to smear her entire legacy was certainly a bridge 590 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,760 Speaker 1: too far. Yeah, And so I was fascinated to read 591 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: Margaret Mead's history, especially the way that her own personal 592 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: life and love and feelings might have influenced her view 593 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: on the entire world. Yeah, or vice first time. Yeah, 594 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: I'm just curious to know almost in the same kind 595 00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: of nature and nurture kind of way, like what came 596 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: first all of us research and discovery about you know, 597 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 1: the role that cultural constructs play and sex norms and 598 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,720 Speaker 1: things like that, or just her being the original punk. 599 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: So let us know all of your thoughts. Barnard grads, 600 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: are you super pumped about one of your most notable women? 601 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at how stuff works dot Com is our 602 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: email address. You can also tweet us at mom Stuff 603 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: podcast or message us on Facebook. And I bet we 604 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: have some messages from the Freeman camp coming our way. 605 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: But we have some letters to read to you when 606 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,040 Speaker 1: we come right back from a quick break. I can 607 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,280 Speaker 1: admit it, the last thing I want to do after 608 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: I get off work is wait in line at the 609 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: grocery store, take all of that stuff home, carry it 610 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: up the steps to my apartment, and cook a complicated meal. 611 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: It's all I can do to just get in my 612 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: stretchy pants once I get home. And plus it's expensive 613 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 1: and unhealthy to get take out. So what is the 614 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 1: right solution. I have to tell you. The right solution 615 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: is Blue Apron. Blue Apron delivers farm fresh ingredients and 616 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: step by step recipes to your home, allowing you to 617 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: create healthy, handcrafted meals without going to the grocery store. 618 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 1: For less than ten dollars of meal. Blue Apron since 619 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: you fresh ingredients perfectly proportioned, making cooking healthy meals really 620 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: easy and fun. No trips to the store and no 621 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: waste from all those unused ingredients. Plus you'll learn to 622 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: cook with specialty ingredients that are normally hard to find. 623 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,239 Speaker 1: That's right, Caroline. Blue Apron is perfect for date night 624 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 1: cooking with friends, and they even offer family plans with 625 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,839 Speaker 1: kid friendly ingredients. Each balanced meal is five to seven 626 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 1: hundred calories per serving and so tasty you'd never know. 627 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: Cooking takes about half an hour. Shipping is flexible and free. 628 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 1: In the menus are always new. You'll never get the 629 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:53,760 Speaker 1: same meal twice. So this week on Blue Apron's menu, 630 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: how does pad kemel with chicken sound? Or if you're vegetarian, 631 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: some eggplant parmesan and go meaty with fresh tomato sauce. 632 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: M M, I'm hungry already, So check out this week's 633 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,879 Speaker 1: menu and get your first two meals free by going 634 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,480 Speaker 1: to Blue apron dot com slash mom Stuff Mine in 635 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 1: Caroline's treat. Really, the first two meals are on stuff 636 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,400 Speaker 1: mom never told you when you go to Blue Apron 637 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 1: dot com slash mom Stuff. Okay, well, I have a 638 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 1: letter from Emma. She says, this is a really belated letter, 639 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: but I couldn't help it right in after listening to 640 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: your Chess Queen's episode, I was a competitive chess player 641 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: when I was in elementary school, and your commentary on 642 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,320 Speaker 1: the not so female friendly world of chess hit home completely. 643 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 1: I never participated in any ladies only chess tournaments, perhaps 644 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,239 Speaker 1: because I wouldn't have had anyone to play against. I 645 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,400 Speaker 1: was lucky to have one or two other girls competing 646 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,760 Speaker 1: in the same tournament as me. Both when I competed 647 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: at the kids and adult levels, the boys were often 648 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:57,839 Speaker 1: very annoyed to be matched against me, and one even 649 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,680 Speaker 1: went to my dad before a match and asked if 650 00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: he should take it easy on me. Learning chess was 651 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,400 Speaker 1: such a father daughter bonding activity for me and my dad. 652 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,760 Speaker 1: I think he was proud to have a daughter involved 653 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: and kicking boys butts at such a male dominated game, 654 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 1: and I think his guidance and support throughout all of 655 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 1: it played a huge role in me becoming the feminist 656 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,799 Speaker 1: I am today. I think waiting through the world of 657 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 1: competitive chess was my first crash course in sexism and 658 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: Tommy had to fight for what I wanted despite what 659 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 1: people assumed I was or was not capable of because 660 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: I was a girl. I think a lot of what 661 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: led me to quit was the culture of the game, 662 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,359 Speaker 1: and I'm certain it keeps a lot of interested and 663 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,320 Speaker 1: talented women out of it. I'm so glad you covered 664 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 1: this topic. I wish I'd heard more women talking about 665 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 1: the game when I was in my chess playing budding 666 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,880 Speaker 1: feminist days. My dad and I are looking forward to 667 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 1: discussing your podcast the next time we see each other. Well, thanks, Emma, 668 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna let her hear from Lucia, who wrote 669 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: today at work, I saw a Facebook post about period 670 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: pride and I got super excited and from Argentina, and 671 00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,359 Speaker 1: I didn't know about this trend of being more open 672 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: about your peer in the US. I work in I 673 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,240 Speaker 1: t in a huge telecommunications company, so you might imagine 674 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 1: most of my co workers are guys. In addition to that, 675 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,319 Speaker 1: I work at twelve and nine shift and after six 676 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 1: I'm the only woman in the office. After that hour, 677 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,240 Speaker 1: work is pretty quiet, so we talk and make jokes 678 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: a lot. I have this really macho coworker who has 679 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 1: a lot of opinions about women and also says awful things. 680 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: For instance, he's surprised when I'm interested in gaming programming, 681 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: and one saw me holding a book and said, Lucia 682 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: with a book, that's weird. Once we were talking about 683 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: YouTube channels and one of my coworkers said you should 684 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: start one, you're funny, and this guy replied, what would 685 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,480 Speaker 1: she talk about? And as a joke, I started doing 686 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: this bit where I'm hosting a YouTube channel about periods. 687 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: So now every once in a while we do a 688 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: fake YouTube video and I even have an opening where 689 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,720 Speaker 1: I say Hi, I'm Lucia and today we're talking about 690 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 1: periods and one of the guys I was a jingle 691 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: from a Panti Liner commercial. Anyway, I thought it was 692 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,759 Speaker 1: a funny story. And after hearing your podcast, maybe I'll 693 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 1: launch an actual channel with subtitles so you can enjoy it. 694 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: Thanks for all the great podcasting and have a wonderful week. 695 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: And yes, please do that, and when you launch it, 696 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 1: send us a link because I want to aid to 697 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 1: hear that jingle and be to see your fake period 698 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:25,280 Speaker 1: show because that is a fantastic idea. So thanks everybody 699 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,839 Speaker 1: who's written in to us Mom staff at house. Stuff 700 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:29,600 Speaker 1: works dot com is where you can send us your 701 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: letters and for links all of our social media as 702 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,720 Speaker 1: well as all of our blogs, videos and podcasts, including 703 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,799 Speaker 1: this one with a link so you can learn more 704 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 1: about Margaret Meade. Head on over to stuff Mom Never 705 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:47,400 Speaker 1: Told You dot com for more on this and thousands 706 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: of other topics. Does it have stuff works dot com