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Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcasts featuring conversations with

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Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety.

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Speaker 2: Today.

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Speaker 1: My guest is DeVaughn Franklin, head of Franklin Entertainment. He's

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Speaker 1: a veteran film and TV producer whose latest effort is Flamin' Hot,

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Speaker 1: which comes out this week from Searchlight and Hulu. I

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Speaker 1: have wanted Franklin to be a guest on this podcast

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Speaker 1: for some time. He's blazed a unique trail in Hollywood

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Speaker 1: as a businessman with a mission and a purpose rooted

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Speaker 1: in a higher calling. He's a producer who has reached

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Speaker 1: the greatest heights of the box office, and he also

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Speaker 1: works on small independent projects. As Franklin explains, he goes

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Speaker 1: where the best stories take him and figures out the

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Speaker 1: business afterward. He's a hands on in the trenches produce

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Speaker 1: and that gives him a strong sense of where the

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Speaker 1: business is heading in any given moment. Franklin also gets

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Speaker 1: great insight from working as a motivational speaker and author.

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Speaker 1: He has been guided by his strong Christian faith since

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Speaker 1: he was the age of nine, it's working well for him.

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Speaker 1: As you will hear, Franklin shares his candid thoughts about

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Speaker 1: working as a producer in the streaming marketplace versus theatrical

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Speaker 1: He also talks about why Hollywood in recent years has

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Speaker 1: shied away from faith based content and how he hopes

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Speaker 1: to broaden the definition of the genre with his work.

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Speaker 1: He also makes an intriguing argument for the title that

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Speaker 1: qualifies as the biggest faith based franchise of all time.

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Speaker 1: That's all coming up after this break, and we're back

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Speaker 1: with an interview with flamanhot producer Devaon Franklin De von Franklin.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining me today.

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Speaker 3: Ah, thank you for having me honor to be here.

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Speaker 1: Well, I wanted to start out by talking Devon. You

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Speaker 1: are a increasingly increasingly rare species out there these days,

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Speaker 1: an independent producer who truly works with the biggest studios

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Speaker 1: on big projects, and you also do your own independent projects.

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Speaker 1: I know you work in everything from financing, from creating,

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Speaker 1: conceiving the idea to lighting up the financing to being

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Speaker 1: there in the trenches when they're producing. And you've done

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Speaker 1: a lot so many films and now I'm seeing a

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Speaker 1: lot more TV on your resume as well. Let me

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Speaker 1: just start with it kind of a broad question. Hollywood

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Speaker 1: has been in the throes of a historic transition for

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Speaker 1: it's probably going on ten years, right, How are you

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Speaker 1: in your business in the specific areas that you work in,

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Speaker 1: How are where are you feeling those changes? And where

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Speaker 1: are you seeing the most opportunity right now? And I

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Speaker 1: know that right now is a hard time because we

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Speaker 1: have writers on strike and you know, walking around the streets.

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Speaker 1: But so like setting aside the specific the specifics of

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Speaker 1: the writers strike, where are you seeing the most opportunity

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Speaker 1: for your business?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I mean, I think the thing that

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Speaker 4: has changed the most over the years is that, you know,

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Speaker 4: as the business is navigating how the business is going

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Speaker 4: to work, you know, I mean before it was very

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Speaker 4: it was it was very straightforward. You know, you develop

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Speaker 4: a film, you know, it gets marketed, distributed in theaters.

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Speaker 3: That's just that was the business. So everyone knew the business.

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Speaker 4: And it's always hard to get a yes in our business,

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Speaker 4: and it's always hard to get a movie made.

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Speaker 3: But previously that path.

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Speaker 4: Was much clearer, uh And and I think it was

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Speaker 4: easier to do business in this marketplace, it's more challenging

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Speaker 4: because there are so many unknowns and and everyone is

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Speaker 4: NAVI every one, meaning like each studio, each streamer has

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Speaker 4: their own process by.

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Speaker 3: Which they do business before.

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Speaker 4: You know, yes, of course Paramount might make different movies

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Speaker 4: than Sony, but at the end of the day, they're

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Speaker 4: all making movies. They all have the same process, whereas

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Speaker 4: now every studio has a different process. And because there

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Speaker 4: is still a question of Okay, what's theatrical, what's streaming,

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Speaker 4: you know, who's going to show up where that means

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Speaker 4: a decision making process in my experience, tends to be

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Speaker 4: more delayed and a little more obtuse than it previously

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Speaker 4: has been. So for me, you know, the opportunities are

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Speaker 4: in remembering that storytelling is powerful and storytelling unites us

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Speaker 4: all and no matter how the mediums changed, what doesn't

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Speaker 4: change is our human connection to great stories. So I

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Speaker 4: just try to stay focused on that, like, okay, finding

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Speaker 4: great stories and then doing my best to you know,

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Speaker 4: find you know, studios or streamers or you know, companies

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Speaker 4: that I can work with fund of those great stories.

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Speaker 4: Because if I get caught up in the business changing,

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Speaker 4: I think it would cause me to lose sight of

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Speaker 4: what matters most is at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: the only thing that matters is a great story, period.

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Speaker 4: And the business is always going to change. There's always

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Speaker 4: going to be variables we have to factor in, but

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Speaker 4: that is the most important variable, and I just try

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Speaker 4: to stay very mindful of that.

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Speaker 1: M I think that certainly you can't go wrong keeping

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Speaker 1: your the prize of the story.

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Speaker 3: That's right, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you, is it important to you? Is

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Speaker 1: it important to the final product that when you go

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Speaker 1: into a deal that you are very aware that it's

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Speaker 1: settled where it's going. This will be theatrical and then

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Speaker 1: it will have a window on a streamer or this

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Speaker 1: is going streaming first, and maybe they'll be an awards run.

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Speaker 1: Like is it important to you in producing that you

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Speaker 1: know that path?

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Speaker 4: No, No, it's not important at all. You know in

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Speaker 4: the film that I just reduced flaming hot. When I

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Speaker 4: originally sold the project, you know, we sold it, I

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Speaker 4: sold it as a theatrical and then as we were

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Speaker 4: getting closer to making the film, a Searchlight wanted to

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Speaker 4: bring in Hulu and so that seemed to make sense, Like, okay,

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Speaker 4: that's great. So I could have been upset initially, but

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Speaker 4: I said, you know, I want to be pragmatic and

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Speaker 4: I want to stay agnostic about how these films come

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Speaker 4: to the world, because if I was financing the films

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Speaker 4: and I was in control of the distribution.

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Speaker 3: Then I get to say, but I'm not okay.

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Speaker 4: So those that are, hey, I get it. They have

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Speaker 4: a point of view and I'm going to respect that.

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Speaker 4: So like with Flaming Hot, when the decision came to

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Speaker 4: go to a streamer, I was like, all right, cool,

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Speaker 4: you know, and then now we're going to be on

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Speaker 4: Hulu and Disney Plus, which is great. So it's not

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Speaker 4: essential for me personally to know where it's going to

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Speaker 4: end up.

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Speaker 2: And even for the qualitative of me, no, no, I'm

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Speaker 2: still making this.

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Speaker 4: It's a story there you go. I'm still going to

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Speaker 4: make a high quality movie. I'm still going to put

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Speaker 4: the movie together. They're you know, in the best way possible.

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Speaker 4: Still hire great filmmakers, you know, great actors. So for me,

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Speaker 4: getting the movie made is the win. And ultimately how

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Speaker 4: it ultimately gets distributed, it's just a part of the

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Speaker 4: process for me.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, certainly I know people have strong opinions

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Speaker 1: and respect those but certainly especially for a movie like

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Speaker 1: Flame and Hot. Yeah, you know, I mean many millions

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Speaker 1: of people will be able to with a click check

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Speaker 1: it out on Hulu. Yes, and that you know that

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Speaker 1: can't be bad for getting the story out and having

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Speaker 1: it go into the world.

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Speaker 4: No, I mean, it's it's not bad at all. I

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Speaker 4: think you know, there's a difference between preference and pragmatism, right,

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Speaker 4: So if I had a preference what I wanted to

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Speaker 4: be in theaters, yes, but you know, me being a

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Speaker 4: pragmatic producer, if streaming is the best way to get

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Speaker 4: this film out, I'd rather have it out in the

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Speaker 4: world than not. So if the decision is between theatrical

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Speaker 4: distribution or not, I mean, you know, streaming, you know,

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Speaker 4: distribution or not, then I'm going to choose streaming because

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Speaker 4: getting the movie made is most important. And in this scenario,

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Speaker 4: you know, I do feel good about the plan and

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Speaker 4: the marketing and the publicity and uh, you know, and

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Speaker 4: hopefully the fact that it is on these platforms will

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Speaker 4: allow it to reach, you know, an even broader wider

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Speaker 4: audience than it may have been able to reach theatrically.

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Speaker 4: So you know, it's one of those things that there's

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Speaker 4: no hard and fast rule. You know, I grew up

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Speaker 4: on movies. I'm a believer in the theatrical experience. I'm

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Speaker 4: a believer in sitting in a theater with people you

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Speaker 4: don't know and having an amazing collective journey together. I

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Speaker 4: love that, and I also recognize we're in a different

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Speaker 4: world and not every movie is going to be seen

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Speaker 4: that way, and I can I can live with that.

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Speaker 2: What is your sense?

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you to name names, but just

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Speaker 1: do you have a sense at the you know, at

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Speaker 1: the high level, at the studio level, is there is

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Speaker 1: there fear about the theatrical experience going away? Do you

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Speaker 1: think that, like do people think that it is obviously,

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Speaker 1: you know, very challenging couple of years with the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: But does it come back?

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Speaker 4: I have not in my you know, anecdotal dealings with

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Speaker 4: you know, various studios, I don't. There has not been

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Speaker 4: any fear that I've noticed about theatrical experience. I think

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Speaker 4: the question is which movies will work without it? And

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Speaker 4: what are what's the path for then those movies to

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Speaker 4: be successful? You know that theatrical path still is a

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Speaker 4: very clear one. Everyone knows how to do that now,

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Speaker 4: whether the movie is going to be successful or not,

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Speaker 4: that comes down to so many factors. But you know,

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Speaker 4: the process, the process to make a movie successful in

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Speaker 4: streaming is still you know, in my vantage point catches

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Speaker 4: as catch can. You know, It's like each movie is

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Speaker 4: a different, different process and every movie has a different

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Speaker 4: marketing publicity plan. So I think there is still some

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Speaker 4: trepidation and or confusion about what are the things that

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Speaker 4: need to happen to open a streaming movie successfully. So

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Speaker 4: I have not seen any fear around theatrical distribution going away.

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Speaker 4: If anything, I've seen more fear about the movies that

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Speaker 4: are not going theatrically. How do we ensure that these

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Speaker 4: films will be successful from a streaming standpoint.

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Speaker 2: That's good, that's great analysis. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: On the television side, I know that you have really

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Speaker 1: been doing everything from some unscripted shows for own You've

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Speaker 1: been doing you know, big scripted projects for CBS where

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Speaker 1: your company has a deal with a TV production deal

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Speaker 1: at CBS, A gospel music show for b ETS called

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Speaker 1: Kingdom Business, very very too interesting and a really nice

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Speaker 1: range of things. How how from the business side of

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Speaker 1: doing business and television are you finding it similar to

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Speaker 1: features where everybody's kind of figuring it out show by show.

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Speaker 3: Well, no, because so even though me, how do I

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Speaker 3: articulate this? So like in film, you know, the the.

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Speaker 4: Introduction of streaming and movies coming to that audience, to

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Speaker 4: an audience, it's it's a different way that the audience.

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Speaker 3: Takes in a movie.

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Speaker 4: So it's a very different thing to go to a

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Speaker 4: movie theater versus watching it at home, whereas in television

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Speaker 4: you're always used to being at home. So whether it's

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Speaker 4: streaming or whether it's on a network, the audience that

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Speaker 4: you're programming for is already predisposition to see that content

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Speaker 4: in the medium that streaming is providing it.

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Speaker 3: So it's a different thing.

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Speaker 4: So it's actually on some level easier because it's like, okay, yes,

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Speaker 4: of course, the economics have to make sense, and you know,

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Speaker 4: the Cassie has to make sense and whatnot. But it's

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Speaker 4: the decision making process around making a series, in my experience,

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Speaker 4: is a little more clear than the decision making process

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Speaker 4: around certain films. And in my experience being a producer,

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Speaker 4: you know, one of the reasons why I wanted to

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Speaker 4: expand into television one is because I'm passionate about stories,

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Speaker 4: and I not every story can be told only in

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Speaker 4: you know, to two and a half hour maybe.

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Speaker 3: Three hour film.

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Speaker 2: Three hour seems to be I know, rightly.

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Speaker 1: I noticed the running time on that is a nice

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Speaker 1: you're just under two hours, that's right.

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Speaker 4: And we worked hard to get under too. We're mindful

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Speaker 4: of people's time, you know, of course, So so for me,

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Speaker 4: I wanted to get into television because there are other

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Speaker 4: stories that I wanted to tell that television was more

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Speaker 4: suited for, and that process of TV because there's so

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Speaker 4: many scripts, you know, it's like, it's great, and it's

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Speaker 4: also difficult in that there's so much television development that

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Speaker 4: you know, it's still very difficult to get something made. However,

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Speaker 4: you get answers faster. So you know, if you're going

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Speaker 4: to sell a pilot, you know, if you're going to

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Speaker 4: get commissioned to write, you know, the pilot. You know,

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Speaker 4: if your pilot's gonna get made, you know if your

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Speaker 4: pilot's not going to get picked up, And all of

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Speaker 4: these things happen relatively within you know, it span of

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Speaker 4: a couple of months. Once you're going to market with

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Speaker 4: the project and you sell it whereas with film, I mean,

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Speaker 4: going back to Flaming Hot, I have been working on

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Speaker 4: Flaming Hots for six or seven years, and when it

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Speaker 4: was going to get made and how it was going

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Speaker 4: to get made was always we didn't know. So one

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Speaker 4: of the things I love about television is that the

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Speaker 4: decision making process is even with the introduction of streaming,

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Speaker 4: in my experience, decision making process hasn't.

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Speaker 3: Changed that much.

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Speaker 4: Uh And if anything, it's more clarifying to know if

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Speaker 4: something is going or if it's not going, whereas in

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Speaker 4: features it's very different.

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Speaker 2: It's a little a little more opaquet.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 1: Tell me what was the spark for you on Flaming Hot?

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Speaker 1: What what drew you to that story?

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Speaker 4: You know, I am in this business to make uplifting stories.

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Speaker 4: That's why I'm here. You know, I want I've always

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Speaker 4: wanted to use.

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Speaker 2: We need more, we need, we need more.

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Speaker 3: Amen keep saying amen. You know that's why I'm here.

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Speaker 4: I want to make movies that can uplift the human spirit.

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Speaker 4: And you know, my father, I'm from Oakland, California. My

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Speaker 4: father died of a heart attack when I was nine

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Speaker 4: years old and he was thirty six years old. And

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Speaker 4: my mother didn't have money for therapy, So my therapy

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Speaker 4: became watching movies and TV shows and going to church,

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Speaker 4: and you know, movies like Rocky and The Color Purple

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Speaker 4: and Back to the Future.

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Speaker 3: They gave me.

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Speaker 4: I mean, as crazy as it sounds, it gave me

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Speaker 4: a lot of hope as a kid. And when I

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Speaker 4: and I could see myself in those characters and their

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Speaker 4: ability to endure difficulty and still prevail, and I was

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Speaker 4: so inspired by those experiences.

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Speaker 3: I just felt like, oh, I got.

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Speaker 4: To be a part of Hollywood, Like I want to

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Speaker 4: be a part of the business' that's you know, here

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Speaker 4: to create that magic. And so that was the mission

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Speaker 4: statement from when I was a teenager that I want

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Speaker 4: to go to Hollywood. I want to make inspirational, aspirational,

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Speaker 4: uplifting films. And so to answer your question, once I

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Speaker 4: met with Richard Montaignees and his wife, Judy Montaignees and

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Speaker 4: they told me their story. I as soon as they

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Speaker 4: finished telling me the story, I just felt like, Well,

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Speaker 4: this is why I'm here, this is why I'm in

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Speaker 4: this business. I'm in this business for people like them,

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Speaker 4: you know, people who have great stories that the stories

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Speaker 4: need to want be memorialized because once you make a film,

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Speaker 4: it's eternal, So memorialize these great stories. And two help

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Speaker 4: bring people hope in the form of great stories that

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Speaker 4: happened to be true. And so what struck me about

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Speaker 4: the story was just, you know, Richard's tenacity, his perseverance,

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Speaker 4: you know, starting at Freedo La as a janitor and

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Speaker 4: not allowing that title to stop him from dreaming and thinking,

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Speaker 4: you know, in a way that others would say, well,

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Speaker 4: you can't think like that because you're a janitor, and

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Speaker 4: his thing response was like, well why not, you know,

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Speaker 4: and to see all that he had to endure, the difficulties,

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Speaker 4: the heartache, the hardship, the discrimination, all of those things

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Speaker 4: and still keep a positive disposition, keep showing up and

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Speaker 4: in the process do something historic and then their marriage.

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Speaker 3: You know, didn't suffer because of it.

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Speaker 4: So there were so many aspects to the story, but

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Speaker 4: it was it was those specifics that I connected to.

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Speaker 4: And after he told me his story, as they both

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Speaker 4: told me their story, as soon as the meeting was done,

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Speaker 4: I said, Okay, I'm gonna I don't know how I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna do it, but I guarantee you we're gonna get

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Speaker 4: this done.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that drive well. I also love that

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Speaker 2: it's a positive business story.

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Speaker 1: Usually the business stories that make it to the screen

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Speaker 1: are the spectacular failures, the we works.

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Speaker 2: The Enron's.

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Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more from

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Speaker 1: Flaman'hot producer Devon Franklin. And we're back with more from

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Speaker 1: Franklin Entertainment head Devon Franklin. You have a very active

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Speaker 1: part of your business is being a motivational speaker, being

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Speaker 1: an author, talking about your story and why you do

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Speaker 1: what you do. Yes, how why is that? Why has

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Speaker 1: that been important to you? Why have you, as you

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Speaker 1: have been very successful in Hollywood, you have maintained that

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Speaker 1: part of your overall overall business and it obviously is

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Speaker 1: meaningful to you.

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Speaker 4: It is it is you know, going back to you

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Speaker 4: know what what kind of got me through the tragedy

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Speaker 4: of losing my father. It was it was church. It

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Speaker 4: was ministry and movies and those two became my passions.

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Speaker 4: And you know, I never I never thought about like

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Speaker 4: how that would impact me professionally at the time.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like being a teenager right now.

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Speaker 2: Nine years old.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I had never thought about any of that.

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Speaker 4: I just was like, oh, I really love movies, and

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Speaker 4: I love ministry and I love church. And you know,

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Speaker 4: I gave my first sermon when I was fifteen years old,

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Speaker 4: and you know, people were like, oh, you know, you

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Speaker 4: need to preach, and I was like, well, I can preach,

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Speaker 4: I said, but I'm going.

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Speaker 3: Off, you know.

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Speaker 4: And my uncle, who was the pastor, he would be like, well,

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Speaker 4: you know, you can run, but you can't hide. And

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Speaker 4: I said, well, I'm gonna run real fast because I'm

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Speaker 4: not trying to be you know, I'm not trying to

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Speaker 4: be a pastor, which you know, a pastor to me

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Speaker 4: is someone who has a local congregation that they're responsible to, uh,

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Speaker 4: and that's very important, you know. And so i may

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Speaker 4: have the gift of preaching, but I'm not, you know,

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Speaker 4: technically a pastor. My younger brother is. He's the pastor

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Speaker 4: of our church in Oakland that I grew up in.

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Speaker 4: And so long story short for me. As I came

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Speaker 4: into the business, my first job, I got an internship.

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Speaker 4: When I was going I went to USC as a

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Speaker 4: business major film minor, and I got an internship energy

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Speaker 4: interview for the company that managed will Smith and Jada

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Speaker 4: and it was called Handprint. The company is no longer around,

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Speaker 4: but Handprint and the principles were like Bennie Medina and

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Speaker 4: James Lasseter and Jeff Pollock.

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Speaker 2: Right, who went on too Overbrooklyn.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's right, that's right, that's right.

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Speaker 4: So that in that first interview, the office manager that

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Speaker 4: was interviewing me, she, you know, she asked me why

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Speaker 4: I wanted to be in entertainment, and I told her,

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Speaker 4: I said, I want to be in entertainment to make change.

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Speaker 4: I believe entertainments the most powerful medium in the world.

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Speaker 4: And I told her, I said I can be a

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Speaker 4: part of it. I think I can change people's lives

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Speaker 4: for the better. And then at the end of the interview,

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Speaker 4: she said, is there anything else you want me to know?

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Speaker 4: I said, well, I said, I observe the Sabbath. I said,

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Speaker 4: so Friday night sundown to Saturday night sundown.

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Speaker 3: I don't work.

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Speaker 4: I said, so if taking the internship would require me

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Speaker 4: to work, I'm not going to take it. And so

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Speaker 4: she was like, oh, okay, and then she said all right, well,

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Speaker 4: no problem, will work around it. And I got the internship.

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Speaker 4: And that internship basically was the key that unlocked my

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Speaker 4: entire career. But what I understood at that point in

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Speaker 4: time was like, oh, I just have to be true

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Speaker 4: to myself and what I believe and let whatever's meant

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Speaker 4: to be be. And I wasn't going in there trying

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Speaker 4: to manipulate the interview to get the job.

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Speaker 3: I just was honest, like, hey, you know, and.

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Speaker 4: I was communicating that, oh, my faith is important to me.

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Speaker 4: And ultimately, what I was also communicating is that my

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Speaker 4: faith is actually going to help you. You why, because

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Speaker 4: I'm a person that is integral, I'm a person of character.

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Speaker 4: I'm a person where I have other things besides this business,

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Speaker 4: you know, So in those things, I don't even know

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Speaker 4: I was communicating. So to answer you know, your question,

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Speaker 4: it has been organic. You know that these areas are

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Speaker 4: my passions and being able to help people, you know,

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Speaker 4: in the form of you know, being on stage or

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Speaker 4: being in a pulpit and articulating these different themes and

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Speaker 4: providing guidance as you know, as I'm learning how to

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Speaker 4: live this thing called life and then sharing what I've learned.

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Speaker 4: It all goes hand in hand, right, Because even when

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Speaker 4: I'm speaking, I'm still telling stories, and I'm using stories

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Speaker 4: to articulate instruction and how to navigate difficult moments.

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Speaker 3: So you know, some may look at it and say, oh.

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Speaker 4: These things don't fit, but to me they fit completely well.

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Speaker 3: Not only because they're my passions.

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Speaker 4: But it's all still the bedrock built upon storytelling.

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Speaker 1: It says so much about you that it came to

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Speaker 1: you at you know, nine years old where you wanted

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Speaker 1: to put your you know, where you were looking for

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Speaker 1: for your path. But it also says so much that

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Speaker 1: you could come to Hollywood and where people do anything

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Speaker 1: to break in, and you knew yourself enough and knew

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Speaker 1: knew what you needed to be successful and could articulate

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Speaker 1: that at the intern stage. I think that, And you're right,

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Speaker 1: whoever probably thought if he can articulate that at that stage, right,

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Speaker 1: he knows what you knows. He knows who he is,

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Speaker 1: and he knows who he wants to be.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. You know.

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Speaker 4: And the interesting thing about that is every job that

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Speaker 4: I have taken in the business, I always let him know.

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Speaker 4: I mean, even when I was a studio executive at

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Speaker 4: Columbia Pictures, you know, before I took that job. I mean,

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Speaker 4: you know, Ammy Pascal knew, you know, Doug Belgrad knew,

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Speaker 4: and truly.

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Speaker 1: Don't send me the grosses on Friday night because I'm not.

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Speaker 3: They wouldn't know.

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Speaker 4: Literally, like any movie I worked on, they knew that

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Speaker 4: my phone was going off, you know, I would turn

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Speaker 4: it off when sun goes down Friday, and I wouldn't

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Speaker 4: know how my movies were doing until I turned it

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Speaker 4: back on son down on Saturday. And I would always

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Speaker 4: know if it was a success as by how many

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Speaker 4: emails and stuff will come through.

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Speaker 3: And it was only a few. I was like, oh man,

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Speaker 3: we missed it that.

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Speaker 4: But then also when you look at just even the

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Speaker 4: movies that I did at Sony and then the movies

436
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 4: that I'm doing now, I didn't know again that like, okay,

437
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 4: me being who I am and having these passions can

438
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 4: actually improve someone's bottom line.

439
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,199
Speaker 3: I mean, the first film I worked on for.

440
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,439
Speaker 4: Amy was Pursuit of Happiness, and that was a movie

441
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 4: that was shot in Oakland, where I'm from. And obviously

442
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 4: I got my start working for you know, Will and

443
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 4: James Lassiter. When I graduated college, I was James Lassiter

444
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 4: as an assistant for two years, and so to be

445
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 4: able to work on that film was great, to be

446
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 4: able to you know, service them, but it also was

447
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 4: a film. Once we saw the first cut, like it

448
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 4: just was so emotional, we all were, you know, literally

449
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 4: like in tears in the theater. And I said, well,

450
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 4: if this movie could help me, and I'm a person

451
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 4: of faith, I believe it can help a lot of

452
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 4: people of faith. And so at that time, it put

453
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 4: to their whole marketing campaign. And I didn't know that

454
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 4: Cees didn't do marketing at the time.

455
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 3: I didn't know that. So I just said, well, you know,

456
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 3: here's what I.

457
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 4: Would do if we were going to take the message

458
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 4: of hope and an inspiration in this film to a

459
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 4: core audience that wants it. And I said, here what

460
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 4: we do, and the studio brought into it and was

461
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 4: I was able to take Will on the Road to

462
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 4: a number of events and churches and long story shorty

463
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 4: was very successful. And that was when I think, you know,

464
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 4: the powers that be said, oh wow, okay, got it.

465
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 4: So there's something here that we're missing, that there's an

466
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 4: audience we're not serving. And for me, what I do

467
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 4: is not even about the business. It's about the people.

468
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 4: At the end of the day, somebody's going to see

469
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 4: a see pursuit of happiness and it's going to change

470
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 4: the trajectory of their life. Somebody's going to see Flaming

471
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 4: Hot and instead of you know, literally saying I can't

472
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 4: make it, They're going to see the movie and say, oh,

473
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 4: I can do it now because he did it.

474
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 3: So for me, it's about.

475
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 4: The people and using all of these things that I've

476
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 4: been privileged to do, from writing books to producing TV

477
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 4: and movies and being in movies, you know, all of

478
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 4: these avenues. To me, it's still the same thesis, how

479
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 4: do we help people and how do we bring them home?

480
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: And you might be interested to know we did a

481
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: story it was a couple of years ago about what

482
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: are the some of the most aired movies on television

483
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: and Pursuit of happiness was.

484
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sure it was up there.

485
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's running somewhere.

486
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 4: I mean that is I mean, look, I love Will

487
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 4: and I've been able to work on a lot of

488
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 4: his films.

489
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 3: That's my favorite.

490
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: What do you find is the appetite right now for

491
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: things that are either a little more you know, overtly

492
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 1: or explicitly faith based versus thing versus versus you know,

493
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 1: stories that have inspiration, that have uplift to them, but

494
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 1: aren't maybe not as directly focused on a faith experience, so.

495
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 4: Like in terms of appetite in the marketplace, Yeah, yeah,

496
00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's such an interesting question because when

497
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 4: you look at the marketplace right now, it's like I

498
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:11,439
Speaker 4: would say, over the past you know, five years at least,

499
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 4: you know, the desire for studios to make faith based

500
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 4: films has gone down.

501
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: Substantially at a time when you think it would be

502
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: going up.

503
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 3: I know. But here's what happens in my experience that.

504
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 4: This business tends to look at faith and I don't

505
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 4: think this is a good thing. Tends to look at

506
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 4: faith through the lens, through a political lens, and I

507
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 4: think that sometimes the only way that people in the

508
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 4: business understand faith is through what may be put on

509
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 4: CNN or Fox News.

510
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 3: And so as a result.

511
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 4: Of you know, the politicization of this audience, I think

512
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 4: it makes the those decision makers hesitant about programming for

513
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 4: an audience that could be on the wrong side of

514
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 4: whatever political agenda is being is being serviced.

515
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 3: And so as a result, over the years.

516
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 4: You know, like when you look at you know, when

517
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 4: Obama was in office and whatnot, and then as Trump

518
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 4: came in, just speaking very frank that changed the tide,

519
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,479
Speaker 4: right because so much of you know, Trump's success had

520
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 4: a lot to do with, you know, his connection with

521
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 4: evangelical world, which is obviously a faith you know, major

522
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 4: faith community in our culture, in our country. And as

523
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 4: a result, I think a lot of Hollywood decision makers

524
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 4: started to pull back on making you know, a lot

525
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 4: of faith based films. In addition to because the faith

526
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 4: based based was so hot, there were a lot of

527
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 4: faith films that got made you know, from a major

528
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 4: studio and independently that did not work at the box office.

529
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 4: If anything, there may be an oversaturation. So it was

530
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 4: a combination I think of what was happening you know, politically,

531
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 4: and again that's just my assessment. And then I think

532
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 4: it was also the fact that the business itself seemed

533
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 4: to be, you know, not as lucrative as it once was,

534
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 4: and as a result, the desire to have faith films

535
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 4: over the past few years has wane. Now with that

536
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 4: being said, you know, recently there was the Jesus Revolution

537
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 4: film that came out that Lionsgate distributed. Because Lionsgate has

538
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 4: been very clear we're in the faith based business. They

539
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 4: have a deal with my buddies, the Irwin Brothers. They

540
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 4: run Kingdom Story Company and they've done a lot of

541
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 4: successful films in the faith based space. And Lionsgate, you know,

542
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 4: funds their company and says we're in this business and

543
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 4: they've made multiple films with them, and Jesus Revolution is

544
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 4: so far the most successful film, and it lets people

545
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 4: know like, oh wow, there's an audience out here that

546
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 4: wants to see films like this, and so I think

547
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 4: that has restarted the conversation in the business. And then also,

548
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 4: you know, I've met with various streamers, and you know,

549
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 4: the thing about streamers is they have access to research, research,

550
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 4: even more so than in my experience dealing with traditional studios.

551
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 4: And what I've been surprised to discover is that a

552
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 4: lot of streamers, based upon their consumer research, their findings are,

553
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 4: oh wow, people want more content that's uplifting, that's faith,

554
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 4: that has faith, that has spirituality, whoa. However, there's still

555
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 4: been a disconnect between the data and the decision to

556
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 4: do it. And that's where I try to come in

557
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 4: and provide the solution, because any great movie, to me,

558
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 4: doesn't matter if you had that experience, doesn't matter. If

559
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 4: you even agree with the character, you can still relate.

560
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 4: You don't have to have had the experience you know

561
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 4: of when I think of Rocky, you don't have to

562
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 4: have had the experience of being a boxer to understand

563
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 4: what it feels like to be an underdog. So the

564
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 4: nuance that I try to do with the films that

565
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 4: I that I produce and even the move the shows

566
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 4: that I produce, is Okay, there's a core audience that

567
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 4: I know wants this movie, so like, let's take flame

568
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 4: it hot. There's a core audience that I know is

569
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 4: going to respond to that film. But there's also people

570
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 4: that may never see the film if they think it's

571
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 4: for a core audience. But if they think, oh wow,

572
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 4: I heard this in the inspiration of film, I'm gonna

573
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 4: see it. So there have to be universal themes with

574
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 4: the specific story that help transcend the genre. So when

575
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 4: I did Miracles from Heaven, it was like, Okay, how

576
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 4: many people can relate to having a child that has

577
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 4: an incurable disease. The child falls down a tree inside

578
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 4: of a tree, hits her head three times, and the

579
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 4: disease is gone, and she talks about how she went

580
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 4: to heaven how many people can relate to that nobody, right,

581
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 4: but you can relate to the idea that when we

582
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 4: go through hard times it's our community that helps us through.

583
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 4: And when you see that film, it's all about the

584
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 4: power of community.

585
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: With the child that has something that you can't easily.

586
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,479
Speaker 4: Fil that's right, that's right. So for me, it was like, Okay,

587
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 4: we're going to keep it specific enough that a faith

588
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 4: audience would or family audience would watch the film and say, oh, yes,

589
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 4: this movie is helping me with my faith. But the

590
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 4: themes are so universal that anybody watching the film can

591
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 4: come to it and say, wow, that was a good movie.

592
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 4: So for me, that's the nuance. And I feel like

593
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 4: it's it's we're at a we're at a good point

594
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 4: where I think things are really getting you know, picking

595
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 4: back up in terms of momentum. But I still think

596
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 4: there's a step in this direction of really planting the

597
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 4: flag for this audience that this business has not just

598
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 4: yet done.

599
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: And I think you know, the examples that you mentioned

600
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: Pursue of Happiness, flame and Hot, you know other things

601
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: that you've done are really good examples of I think

602
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: some people think many people think faith based they think

603
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: it's going to be a sermon. Yeah, it's going to

604
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: be dogmatic, very sugary and very like. Yes, that's not true,

605
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: you know, full of cliches. Frankly, it's not true. And

606
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: it's and I was, I mean, I think that you

607
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: have shown that those stories are broader and that the

608
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: faith based community can hand more than I think most

609
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: studio executives probably give them credit for.

610
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 4: And also, you know, this is going to sound completely crazy,

611
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 4: but do you know, like what the biggest faith based

612
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 4: franchise is ever Star Wars about it?

613
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 3: You use the force? What does that believe in something

614
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 3: you cannot see? That is faith? That's faith, okay. And

615
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 3: the reason why that franchise has.

616
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 4: Endured, you know, and become what it is for forty

617
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 4: going on fifty years is because when you see that first.

618
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 3: Film, you are inspired.

619
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 4: And any child, any adult, can watch that movie and

620
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 4: watch those movies and say, wow, right, I gotta believe

621
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 4: in the unseen.

622
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 3: You know, I gotta walk by faith. I gotta And

623
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 3: you don't even realize that that's what it is, but

624
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 3: that's what it is.

625
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 4: So you know, my goal is to expand the how

626
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 4: people are looking at what we call faith and expand

627
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 4: what people believe is possible when it comes to inspiration

628
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 4: and aspiration and Flaming Hot is just an example of

629
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 4: that and what I want to do going forward.

630
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review

631
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,680
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632
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,120
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633
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: up for the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't

634
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,520
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635
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:32,440
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