WEBVTT - Rolls-Royce CEO Tufan Erginbilgiç Shares His Turnaround Playbook 

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. I am demanding if

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<v Speaker 1>you are working with me, there's this trust element. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be very fair, very transparent. You won't be wondering

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<v Speaker 1>what Too Fun is thinging about me, because I will

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<v Speaker 1>tell you, and you won't like everything I tell you,

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<v Speaker 1>because I want you to improve.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Francis Laqua and this is leaders, the podcast that

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<v Speaker 2>explores what drives the world's most influential people. This week,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm speaking to Too Fun. Ergon Bilgic, the chief executive

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<v Speaker 2>of Rolls Royce, the aerospace and defense company historically a

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<v Speaker 2>jewel of British industry. When Ergon Bilgage took over in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three, it was on shaky ground. It had

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<v Speaker 2>underperformed for over a decade and been battered by the

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<v Speaker 2>COVID pandemic, with shares down almost seventy percent his predecessor's time.

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<v Speaker 2>Since taking over, Urgan Bilgitch has set in motion a

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<v Speaker 2>dramatic restructuring defined by thousands of job cuts, contract renegotiations,

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<v Speaker 2>and widespread culture change for the company. All of that

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<v Speaker 2>pain has paid off. His tenure was described by McKinsey

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<v Speaker 2>as a case study in the art of corporate transformation.

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to know what gave him the confidence to

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<v Speaker 2>institute such radical change, how he actually did it, and

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<v Speaker 2>whether he sees himself as a standard bearer for British industry. Twovan,

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<v Speaker 2>thank you so much for joining us.

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<v Speaker 1>Great to be here now.

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<v Speaker 2>You took over Rolls Royce in January twenty twenty three

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<v Speaker 2>and quickly you made waves with a speech where you

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<v Speaker 2>talk about a burning platform that every investment we make

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<v Speaker 2>we destroy value. Why did you decide to be so tough?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure I was tough. Actually that speech itself

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<v Speaker 1>actually was one and a half hour speech, but obviously

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<v Speaker 1>headlines took from the first ten minutes you said January

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<v Speaker 1>twenty three, I took the job, but actually I planned

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<v Speaker 1>that speech starting from September twenty two. I commission an

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<v Speaker 1>external benchmarking, because what do you want to do in

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<v Speaker 1>that is really put the mirror up for the organization.

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<v Speaker 1>You cannot say the things you just said without data

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<v Speaker 1>because it will just len like you are criticizing them

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<v Speaker 1>effectively with data. I demonstrated where the companies but in

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<v Speaker 1>the same speech, then you continue and you talk about

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<v Speaker 1>your vision and where you take the company.

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<v Speaker 2>First of all, was there a decision to give the

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<v Speaker 2>company and the employees tough.

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<v Speaker 1>Lve neither of them actually interesting because I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>that way. First of all, they need to understand where

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<v Speaker 1>the company is. Secondly, they need to understand this is

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be different, because before that everybody was asking me, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>Rose was restructured many times, why it is different. First

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<v Speaker 1>of all, it was never restructuring. It was transformation. But

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<v Speaker 1>that wasn't the tough law or this. It was about

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<v Speaker 1>tell how it is. Bring your style. You are going

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<v Speaker 1>to be very clear, but very straightforward. You won't dance

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<v Speaker 1>around the subject. You cannot miss what I say.

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<v Speaker 2>So January twenty twenty three, what do you walk into?

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<v Speaker 2>What company? Do you find?

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<v Speaker 1>Lots of strengths on the one hand, like good people,

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<v Speaker 1>But on the other hand, all those good people have

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<v Speaker 1>not been led well. Direction is not clear, strategy doesn't exist,

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<v Speaker 1>performance management doesn't exist, and the company's balance sheet is

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<v Speaker 1>in a terrible shape. And yes, I said, we destroy

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<v Speaker 1>value every investment we make because company's cost of capital

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<v Speaker 1>was significantly higher than returns of the company.

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<v Speaker 2>You said there were good people a Rolls Royce, but

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<v Speaker 2>you also laid off a lot of people, thousands of people.

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<v Speaker 2>So was it difficult to make sure that you weren't

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<v Speaker 2>letting go the people that you needed.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean there's always that risk, right, but you

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<v Speaker 1>manage this process really tightly so that that doesn't happen,

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<v Speaker 1>or if it happens, really on the edges. Why I

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<v Speaker 1>did it. Frankly, we eliminated players in the organization. So

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<v Speaker 1>if you actually look what we did, no operational people left.

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<v Speaker 1>When you are doing these restructurings people obviously you make

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<v Speaker 1>some because it's about people's lives. But I always worry

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<v Speaker 1>about if we don't do that, probably fifty thousand people's

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<v Speaker 1>lives will be affected because company will go to bad places.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's always that risk, but in this actually we

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<v Speaker 1>had very little of that. We were able to keep

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<v Speaker 1>sort of who we want to keep.

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<v Speaker 2>How important was it that that first town hall people

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<v Speaker 2>got to know you and got your style.

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<v Speaker 1>You need to be very authentic and so that actually

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<v Speaker 1>when they look at you, they say, okay, I believe it.

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<v Speaker 1>Because remember you are not only talking about burning platform.

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<v Speaker 1>You are talking about vision and how we are going

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<v Speaker 1>to get there. Vision needs to be energizing by talking.

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<v Speaker 2>So openly. Did you ever think I'm going to make

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<v Speaker 2>the people before me really mad?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, but remember this was supposed to be internal tunnel, right,

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<v Speaker 1>so it wasn't press conference, and therefore, yes, there was

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<v Speaker 1>that risk it may leak, but upside was a lot

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<v Speaker 1>bigger for me.

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<v Speaker 2>Some shareholders at the time were worried that destabilizing for staff. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>did they call you?

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<v Speaker 1>No, But I've been talking to shareholders Frankly, they have

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<v Speaker 1>been deeply frustrated. One banker, he said, can I actually

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<v Speaker 1>summarize what they said with one word? I said, go ahead,

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<v Speaker 1>he said, frustration.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's also a perception because you've been almost criticized

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<v Speaker 2>right by some people that are close to You're in

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<v Speaker 2>the press by saying you are tough. Your style is

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<v Speaker 2>quite harsh. I mean someone even said your nightmare to

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<v Speaker 2>work with. I mean, does that hurt you?

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<v Speaker 1>I am demanding if you are working with me, there's

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<v Speaker 1>this trust element. I'm gonna be very fair, very transparent.

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<v Speaker 1>You won't be wondering what too Funny is thinking about me,

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<v Speaker 1>because I will tell you, and you won't like everything

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<v Speaker 1>I tell you because I want you to improve, but

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<v Speaker 1>I will also tell you what you are doing well,

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<v Speaker 1>some people love it, excel in it because that pays.

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<v Speaker 1>An intensity is for a purpose. You choose where you are,

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<v Speaker 1>where it matters.

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<v Speaker 2>Now that you've seen results at Rose Royce, have you

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<v Speaker 2>eased off people? I mean you talk about a kind

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<v Speaker 2>of cadence right, a rhythm to applying pressure.

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't know what eased off means because you

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<v Speaker 1>almost move to new normals and expectations are different. Performance

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<v Speaker 1>culture is different. I now watch the team because we

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<v Speaker 1>always have and currently we are dealing with another one

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<v Speaker 1>a AH team is behaving very differently, so then you

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<v Speaker 1>don't need to push. Actually, I had a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>conversations this morning to say perfect, the way you are

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<v Speaker 1>thinking is great. So in that sense, it is easying off.

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<v Speaker 1>But actually company moves to new normal.

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<v Speaker 2>After the break, the Rolls Royce boss, who once warned

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<v Speaker 2>the company was a burning platform, explains how he pulled

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<v Speaker 2>off one of Britain's biggest corporate turnarounds, and just a reminder,

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<v Speaker 2>be sure to follow and subscribe to the show now

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<v Speaker 2>so you never miss an episode. The Rolls Royce restructure,

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<v Speaker 2>which Ergin Bilgage likes to call a transformation, brought the

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<v Speaker 2>company back from the brink and now it's doing quite

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<v Speaker 2>well because since taking over rolls, Royce's shares have increased

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<v Speaker 2>by more than ten times. But how did he actually

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<v Speaker 2>transform the company and how did previous career experiences in

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<v Speaker 2>form his thinking? At some point, you're basically under running

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<v Speaker 2>to become chief executive of BP, and you don't get it,

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<v Speaker 2>so you have to make a decision on whether you

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<v Speaker 2>stay or you leave. That's correct, that's a very difficult decision.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I agree.

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<v Speaker 2>So how did you make the decision of leaving? Is

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<v Speaker 2>it because you wanted to be CEO.

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<v Speaker 1>At that point? Yes, because you are already in CEO

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<v Speaker 1>because company and the process they invite you into the process.

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<v Speaker 1>So because they invite you, that means exactly so therefore yes,

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<v Speaker 1>and given my track records, et cetera, I thought I

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<v Speaker 1>should get it. But that made leaving question also easier, frankly,

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<v Speaker 1>because once you don't get it, now you know what

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<v Speaker 1>you want at that point, and then sort of it

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<v Speaker 1>was almost natural that I left.

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<v Speaker 2>And you go into private equity? What did you learn

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<v Speaker 2>in private equity that you apply for restructure or transformation

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<v Speaker 2>of companies.

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<v Speaker 1>When you go to private aquity, given that investment committee

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<v Speaker 1>is the business in a way, right, you really understand

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<v Speaker 1>what good investment committee is and why are.

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<v Speaker 2>They different in nature.

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<v Speaker 1>Or how they are a lot more open, a lot

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<v Speaker 1>more blunt, not for you to fail, for you to succeed.

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<v Speaker 1>What they are doing, make sure case is robust, so

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<v Speaker 1>it's like a stress test exactly. So then frankly, I

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<v Speaker 1>took that to our investment committee in roys Chroyce and

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<v Speaker 1>I told the team we are not doing this for

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<v Speaker 1>anybody to fail, because if I actually see in the

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<v Speaker 1>pre read an investment proposal that will never fly. I

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<v Speaker 1>call the person and I say, let's take it out

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<v Speaker 1>of an investment committee because I don't want them to

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<v Speaker 1>be embarrassed.

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<v Speaker 2>How did you transform Rose Royce? It was very clear

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<v Speaker 2>you talk about being blunt, like quickly, can you say

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<v Speaker 2>what those steps were?

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<v Speaker 1>Frans, and you are using blunt, I'm not sure I'm authentic.

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<v Speaker 1>I think put the mirror up, but I never had

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<v Speaker 1>the blood.

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<v Speaker 2>Is not a bad word. I mean maybe we've made

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<v Speaker 2>it a bad word, right, but blunt means you know

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<v Speaker 2>what you get instead of dancing around.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's true. I never actually thought about time frame

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<v Speaker 1>in transformations. But I said to people in the first

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<v Speaker 1>two three years. We need to make good progress, and

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<v Speaker 1>normally you do. But I think four pillars were important.

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<v Speaker 1>So the first pillar is all about people. It is

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<v Speaker 1>the leadership, vision, engagement. And second pillar is very granular strategy.

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<v Speaker 1>And everybody knows in the company their role in delivering strategy.

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<v Speaker 1>If you don't have granular strategy, only ten people know it,

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<v Speaker 1>and then ten people are surprisingly surprised that that strategy

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<v Speaker 1>is not delivered. I don't have a role. How am

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<v Speaker 1>I going to contribute? And then everybody has a role

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<v Speaker 1>because in big organizations you come and go. Nobody tells

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<v Speaker 1>you you matter. Somebody tells you you matter in royal

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<v Speaker 1>sources transformation, and this is your role. If you deliver this,

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<v Speaker 1>it's very energizing.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you also famously said I don't do strategy

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<v Speaker 2>in a dark room with consultants.

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<v Speaker 1>I personally attended twenty five thirty workshops when we were

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<v Speaker 1>developing strategy, So every like five hundred plus people joined.

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<v Speaker 1>When you are done, whole organization is aligned because they

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<v Speaker 1>were in the room when you were making the decision.

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<v Speaker 1>I go in those workshops, I say two things. There's

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<v Speaker 1>no hierarchy in the room, second thing, I say, this

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<v Speaker 1>is gonna be chaotic. Why chaotic? Because mini strategy conversations

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<v Speaker 1>don't open up, it closes, it becomes like plan conversations.

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<v Speaker 1>You need to open it up so that all the

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<v Speaker 1>out of bully ideas come into the room. Even if

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<v Speaker 1>you don't do them, they are in the room.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the other things when you were transforming, right,

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<v Speaker 2>what was key was also renegotiating some of the contracts.

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<v Speaker 2>How did you do that?

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<v Speaker 1>I needed to negotiate them because the company was bleeding.

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<v Speaker 1>One thing. I didn't appreciate the cultural impact of that

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<v Speaker 1>because I went and did that and everybody thought that

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<v Speaker 1>was absolute impossible thing to do. Then people said I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna do impossible things as well.

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<v Speaker 2>But what do you call the phone and say, look

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<v Speaker 2>a contract.

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<v Speaker 1>We actually let me. I mean you need more soft

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<v Speaker 1>The meetings different people, but play out in the scene.

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<v Speaker 1>So unfortunately that was the time I needed to go

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<v Speaker 1>into action quickly, so there was no relationship building. Frankly

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<v Speaker 1>because most of the time this was my first meeting

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<v Speaker 1>with the person and numbers are so big that CEO

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<v Speaker 1>to CEO conversation required, right, So normally how it happened

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<v Speaker 1>first half an hour. They complained new CEO, they complain

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<v Speaker 1>about all the operational problems we cause. Then I'm thinking, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>how am I gonna I in this open up that

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<v Speaker 1>actually we are not happy with commercials. But it gave

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<v Speaker 1>me your opportunity to say, yeah, I understand all your concerns,

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<v Speaker 1>but weak roych Roys can only do that. Strong Royce

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<v Speaker 1>Roys actually can be a lot better partners. And then

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<v Speaker 1>I linked that to saying, effectively, our contract doesn't work

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<v Speaker 1>in the first meeting. All you want to achieve for

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<v Speaker 1>them to agree to bring the teams together to rebalance

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<v Speaker 1>the contract and find win win solutions. That's all. If

0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.400
<v Speaker 1>you are planning to achieve more than that, you are

0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:46.360
<v Speaker 1>going to be disappointed.

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.000
<v Speaker 2>When we come back to if an Ergan bill Gate

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:55.120
<v Speaker 2>explains why the Rolls Royce turnaround could offer blueprint for

0:15:55.280 --> 0:16:02.920
<v Speaker 2>other British businesses. British industry has been described as being

0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:07.200
<v Speaker 2>in constant decline, with factors like rising energy costs posing

0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.760
<v Speaker 2>challenges to making money. Rolls Royce's turnaround has been seen

0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:14.080
<v Speaker 2>as a positive sign for the wider industry. So is

0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.520
<v Speaker 2>there anything Rolls Royce's peers can learn from its strategy

0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:27.000
<v Speaker 2>to funny you brought Rolls Royce right, a British heritage brand,

0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.280
<v Speaker 2>back from the brink. I mean, do you feel sometimes

0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.840
<v Speaker 2>like you're carrying the weight of British industry because you've

0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:34.760
<v Speaker 2>made it a success?

0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:41.560
<v Speaker 1>Yes? Sometimes because I think there's this discussions where their

0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:45.800
<v Speaker 1>companies should move to the US market. I'm sure fans

0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:52.000
<v Speaker 1>in US we ask those questions. So actually demonstrating that

0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:56.760
<v Speaker 1>you can be in this market and frankly, after a point,

0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:02.840
<v Speaker 1>it is never about you. You don't want to fail

0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:10.520
<v Speaker 1>all the stakeholders, employees, investors, even government. Once you pass

0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:16.520
<v Speaker 1>a stage, right, okay, you have a success. Now make

0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:21.200
<v Speaker 1>sure that is sustainable success and actually you can build

0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:21.600
<v Speaker 1>on it.

0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:26.080
<v Speaker 2>What can other British companies learn from ros Royce a lot?

0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:31.680
<v Speaker 1>But business model level they are they actually set up

0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:39.560
<v Speaker 1>to win. If not fix the business mode and you

0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:44.440
<v Speaker 1>do that, then of course you need to energize your employees.

0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.320
<v Speaker 1>It's not about you, it's about fifty thou people. I

0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:55.440
<v Speaker 1>am non compromising for that. You may say blunt or whatever,

0:17:55.640 --> 0:18:02.400
<v Speaker 1>but non compromising mediocrity at that level kills the organizations

0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.359
<v Speaker 1>but also good people. Then you need to develop them

0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.200
<v Speaker 1>and have a great career in this.

0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:14.120
<v Speaker 2>How do you manage good people? What do they want effectively?

0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:19.640
<v Speaker 1>You want people in your organization who are highly marketable,

0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:23.399
<v Speaker 1>but they want to stay with you, right, right.

0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.920
<v Speaker 2>So that's what your secret sauce exactly.

0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:30.040
<v Speaker 1>That's what you want, right. That is almost three sixty

0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:35.320
<v Speaker 1>performance management in my mind, and three six the performance management.

0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:39.879
<v Speaker 1>Always if you want to close the circle, it finishes

0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:44.159
<v Speaker 1>with reward and recognition and then grow the company because

0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:48.679
<v Speaker 1>that creates all sorts of career opportunities. Shrinking companies, you

0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:53.880
<v Speaker 1>have less opportunities. Grow the company that actually feeds itself.

0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:55.920
<v Speaker 2>Right. I mean every time I see you, we speak

0:18:55.920 --> 0:19:00.560
<v Speaker 2>about small nuclear reactors. Yes, because it's because you. It's

0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.800
<v Speaker 2>not a three sixty view. It's a very granule. It's

0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.399
<v Speaker 2>almost problem solving, it's engineering.

0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.080
<v Speaker 1>I always go to big picture before I come to

0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:13.800
<v Speaker 1>small pictures. Europe cannot do without it. What needs it

0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:20.639
<v Speaker 1>for net zero? Frankly, Europe needs it for supply security

0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:30.159
<v Speaker 1>full stop, because even before geopolitics, Europe needed that. After

0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:36.520
<v Speaker 1>some geopolitical events, frankly, Europe needs it more than so. Therefore,

0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:42.560
<v Speaker 1>SMRs makes sense at big picture because they are less

0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:49.040
<v Speaker 1>risky because smaller plants and manufacturing activity. Nuclear industry has

0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:54.080
<v Speaker 1>a bad sort of experience with projects. They take longer,

0:19:54.440 --> 0:20:00.359
<v Speaker 1>much more expensive SOMR eighty five percent manufacturing process learn,

0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.119
<v Speaker 1>you learn, and it is modular, it is standard rather

0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.720
<v Speaker 1>than every nuclear project, bespoke EPC project.

0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:12.200
<v Speaker 2>In a way, right, anything could happen in the world

0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.400
<v Speaker 2>of politics as we've seen, Yes, how do you deal

0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:19.520
<v Speaker 2>with politics with events outside your events? And even here

0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.200
<v Speaker 2>you could see a change in government with reform coming

0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:22.720
<v Speaker 2>into power.

0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:27.000
<v Speaker 1>I have a principle in business. I always tell people,

0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:31.280
<v Speaker 1>once you get into trouble, it is too late. So

0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:35.920
<v Speaker 1>you need to prepare the company before you get into trouble.

0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:40.200
<v Speaker 1>So what does that mean? Like, we are actually living

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.920
<v Speaker 1>with it as we speak, and we last year we

0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:48.280
<v Speaker 1>lived with tariff. But first of all, make the company

0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:51.800
<v Speaker 1>very resilient. That was our drive. We did that so

0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:56.040
<v Speaker 1>external sharks, we actually deal with it a lot better.

0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.879
<v Speaker 1>Mindset is more important than anything else. You need to

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:05.440
<v Speaker 1>have the mindset and the response capability in the company.

0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:09.480
<v Speaker 1>You need to develop that before you are in trouble

0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:14.200
<v Speaker 1>because it takes some time, right, and then you need

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:20.120
<v Speaker 1>to be agile using that capability. And then last thing,

0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:23.480
<v Speaker 1>you are gonna do. You are gonna be action oriented,

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:25.320
<v Speaker 1>not explanation oriented.

0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:29.120
<v Speaker 2>But if you don't know what the trouble is, are

0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.399
<v Speaker 2>you scenario planning for all the things that that could change.

0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:36.600
<v Speaker 1>It's not about actually predicting the world. It is about

0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:45.000
<v Speaker 1>how your company not thinks about dealing with external sharks. Right,

0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:50.880
<v Speaker 1>So that is the capability, the process is the mindset.

0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:55.160
<v Speaker 1>We are now responding to current sharks. I can assure

0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.400
<v Speaker 1>you we couldn't do a half of what we are

0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:03.720
<v Speaker 1>doing three years ago. Probably tempers. Probably when I said something,

0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.239
<v Speaker 1>people would look at me with blank eyes. What is

0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:09.960
<v Speaker 1>he talking about today? I don't need to say a lot.

0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:13.200
<v Speaker 1>I need to give the context and people are in action.

0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:19.199
<v Speaker 2>Are you ready for rapid fire questions? Yes, there are

0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:24.760
<v Speaker 2>always reports that someone could be retiring, including you. If

0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:28.240
<v Speaker 2>you were to retire, where would your dream retirement destination be.

0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:33.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure I want one destination. I would like

0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:38.720
<v Speaker 1>to multiple places. One probably is sort of a little

0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:42.959
<v Speaker 1>bit sunny place. I love London. I will retire in

0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:48.719
<v Speaker 1>London definitely, but with some summer sort of sunny place

0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:50.040
<v Speaker 1>in the backup.

0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:54.200
<v Speaker 2>But no plans to retire, not anytime soon. You said,

0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:56.840
<v Speaker 2>you were a university lecturer. If you were to go back,

0:22:56.920 --> 0:22:58.480
<v Speaker 2>what subject would you like to teach?

0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Probably I would teach more leadership related stuff. Right now,

0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:07.119
<v Speaker 1>I was teaching at that time micro and macroeconomics. But

0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:14.080
<v Speaker 1>given my career, I think I would do something different.

0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:17.080
<v Speaker 2>We've heard you're a keen reader. So is there one

0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:19.240
<v Speaker 2>book you've returned to multiple times?

0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:25.359
<v Speaker 1>So I read history books? Why history books? Because that

0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:30.800
<v Speaker 1>tells a lot about human behaviors to me? Because yes,

0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:35.480
<v Speaker 1>times change, I'm not sure human behavior change a lot too.

0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:45.399
<v Speaker 2>Fan, Thank you so much, Thank you, thanks for listening

0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:48.480
<v Speaker 2>to this episode of leaders with me Francin Laqua the podcast.

0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:52.520
<v Speaker 2>If you like our show, please rate, review and subscribe,

0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:55.400
<v Speaker 2>and if you want to watch the show, please find

0:23:55.480 --> 0:23:59.119
<v Speaker 2>us on YouTube. This episode was hosted by me Francin Laqua.

0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:02.560
<v Speaker 2>It was produced by by Atalandi Dixon, Somersadi and Mosses

0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:06.640
<v Speaker 2>and dam Amy Kean is the executive producer of Talk Podcasts.

0:24:07.240 --> 0:24:11.280
<v Speaker 2>Sound designed by Blake Maples and Aaron Casper. Special thanks

0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:12.720
<v Speaker 2>to two fun Ergan Bilgic