Speaker 1: Episode How to Approach and Control emotional spending with Leslie Taine.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 1: save money, embrace simplicity, rights, and liver with your life.
Speaker 1: Here your host Jen and Jill. Welcome to the Frugal
Speaker 1: Friends podcast. My name is Jen, my name is Jill,
Speaker 1: and we have an epic, epic episode today and then
Speaker 1: I truly believe will be one of our most played episodes.
Speaker 1: For sure. It is great. We're recording this after having
Speaker 1: done the interview, so we can say confidently that this
Speaker 1: is a really great episode. Yeah. So not only is
Speaker 1: it on a topic that every single person and their
Speaker 1: mom deals with, emotional spending, but we're covering how how
Speaker 1: to approach it, before, during, after, all of all over
Speaker 1: the spectrum of it, and so everyone will get something
Speaker 1: out of today's episode. Even if you think that you
Speaker 1: don't emotional spend, you might be surprised. You will be surprised.
Speaker 1: We will surprise you. But first let's talk about some
Speaker 1: sponsors also brought to you by Raining it in. Whether
Speaker 1: you're spending has gotten a little out of control, or
Speaker 1: maybe you're being too loud at the store, about how
Speaker 1: outrageous the prices are and your friend keeps shishing you.
Speaker 1: You got to rein it in, grab that situation by
Speaker 1: the rains and just pull it back a little. There's
Speaker 1: so many situations that could require raining it in. I
Speaker 1: love rains, raining, you know, raining it in. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: known for being too loud at places and don't I
Speaker 1: know it, And then people will to tell me to
Speaker 1: take a chill pill. Jill. That was something that was
Speaker 1: said to me as a child and I did not
Speaker 1: like it. Yeah, I mean, live your best life, Jillian,
Speaker 1: me who you are at the following, you need to
Speaker 1: be thank you. I can be responsible for myself and
Speaker 1: rain myself in, Yes, with no pills needed or shushing,
Speaker 1: for sure. And let's transition from that into this really
Speaker 1: saucy episode. So we've got Leslie Tagne on the show today.
Speaker 1: She is a New York based debt settlement attorney and
Speaker 1: she has nearly twenty years experience in consumer and business
Speaker 1: financial debt related services. So she's really smart, highly accomplished
Speaker 1: in negotiation and settlements. She's gone up against large national banks,
Speaker 1: credit union collection agencies like she's so legit and we are.
Speaker 1: She's talked to so many people in debt, She's seems
Speaker 1: so much and so a big part of that, obviously
Speaker 1: for people in debt is credit card consumer debt that
Speaker 1: is a direct result of emotional spending. So that's what
Speaker 1: we're talking about today. She's got such a good perspective
Speaker 1: on this and works with people all the time who
Speaker 1: find themselves and find difficult financial situations as a result.
Speaker 1: So I think her perspective is really amazing. So listen up, Leslie.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Thanks so much for coming on,
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm glad to have you, and we're super excited to
Speaker 1: talk about emotional spending. I can't believe that we haven't
Speaker 1: talked about it more. But it is something that people
Speaker 1: ask about a lot or have like a lot of
Speaker 1: trouble with. So this is going to be a really
Speaker 1: great conversation and hopefully people will leave having a little
Speaker 1: more power over their emotional spending. Leslie, let's get right
Speaker 1: into it. Can you define like emotional spending, like what
Speaker 1: it is? What it is for you? Sure? Emotional spending?
Speaker 1: You know, I think I think you're right. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't realize that it's actually happening
Speaker 1: to them. But emotional spending is usually a tied to
Speaker 1: an emotion. You're doing it for a particular reason other
Speaker 1: than a necessity. So a necessity you have to go
Speaker 1: to the supermarket and you're buying food. But emotional spending
Speaker 1: is really tied with some sort of feeling, and you're
Speaker 1: motivated to make a purchase as a result of a
Speaker 1: particular feeling. So and sometimes with emotional spending, or most
Speaker 1: of the time with emotional spending, there's an after feeling
Speaker 1: as well, sometimes either an emptiness or a feeling of
Speaker 1: guilt or remorse. So there's an emotion when you're going
Speaker 1: to make the purchase, an emotion when you're making that purchase,
Speaker 1: and then a post emotion that's all tied to it.
Speaker 1: So it's a very emotional experience. MMM. I like how
Speaker 1: you've delineated that that if you're purchasing something other than necessity.
Speaker 1: I think when I first heard the topic, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: do that, And I'm hearing you describe it, like, oh,
Speaker 1: I buy things all the time that aren't necessary for
Speaker 1: my life. So this is good stuff. Yeah, it's something
Speaker 1: that like I have to think about as well, Like
Speaker 1: I am I an emotional spender. You know, I'm so
Speaker 1: caught up in you know, I do this for a living,
Speaker 1: so I'm very very focused and aware of my purchasing
Speaker 1: and spending and budgeting and money. So I have to
Speaker 1: really think, you know, is there a piece of me
Speaker 1: that might be an emotional spender when I'm understanding the
Speaker 1: definition of it. You know, not everything you purchase is
Speaker 1: a necessity. It's okay to purchase something that you want,
Speaker 1: but the question is what's the reason behind that want
Speaker 1: and is it something that's trying to make you feel better? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love it because I only think of like typically
Speaker 1: emotional pre buying, like if I'm treating myself because I'm
Speaker 1: celebrating like I'm happy, or if I'm stressed. But then
Speaker 1: I don't think of like even when it's you know, mindless,
Speaker 1: there's still emotions that come um during and then especially
Speaker 1: like after so much guilt and shame when you make
Speaker 1: a purchase out of budget or all of those, And
Speaker 1: I just I like didn't really think about parts two
Speaker 1: and three of the spectrum. It's very there's a lot
Speaker 1: of subconscious um impact. There's a lot of things that
Speaker 1: are going on when you're making those purchases that you're
Speaker 1: actually not aware of, because at the time of the
Speaker 1: purchase or when you're going to do it, you could
Speaker 1: actually talk yourself into it. You could. Your mind can
Speaker 1: justify anything. It can justify any purchase a reason, you know,
Speaker 1: why you're in that place to begin with. You know,
Speaker 1: I was thinking, like, why do want I want to
Speaker 1: go to a mall. If I go to the mall,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna make purchases. So I try to think about,
Speaker 1: you know, what would be my motivation to go to
Speaker 1: the mall. But I could justify why I need to
Speaker 1: go to the mall. So your mind starts to justify
Speaker 1: why it is that you're in the place that you're in,
Speaker 1: why it is that you're going to make that purchase,
Speaker 1: And a lot of it really is subconscious and subconscious feelings.
Speaker 1: So the whole point of the emotional spending is to
Speaker 1: become aware of why you're doing it and what the
Speaker 1: motivation is. And if the motivation is genuine, you know
Speaker 1: it's something that you want, then it's something that you want.
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily an emotional purchase. If someone I would
Speaker 1: imagine all of our listeners right now are like, okay,
Speaker 1: is this me? How do I figure this out? What
Speaker 1: would you say about ways to identify the emotions that
Speaker 1: are triggering the spending, So ways to identify the emotions
Speaker 1: not being not in the moment. So don't look at
Speaker 1: yourself like right if the second you are say you're
Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you're on the way to
Speaker 1: make a purchase, Now is not the time to start
Speaker 1: figuring out while you're doing what you're doing. Look at
Speaker 1: the past. Kind of go back and look at past
Speaker 1: purchases and say to yourself, so, why did I buy
Speaker 1: those shoes or why did I make that purchase? Was
Speaker 1: that purchase to celebrate an achievement? Did I feel stressed
Speaker 1: on that day? You know, try to take a step
Speaker 1: back and analyze previous spending and that might be able
Speaker 1: to provide you some insight and the reasons behind it,
Speaker 1: and you can start to think about, well, what was
Speaker 1: I thinking before that, and what was I thinking when
Speaker 1: I was there? And then how did I feel after
Speaker 1: I made the purchase? And was it something that continued
Speaker 1: to make me feel good? Or was it something that
Speaker 1: was fleeting after I made the purchase. And that's a
Speaker 1: really good way to start to identify the triggers in
Speaker 1: those purchases. Oh I love that tip. It also makes
Speaker 1: me wonder about even keeping a log as you go, like,
Speaker 1: not not to identify everything based off of what you're
Speaker 1: buying right now today, but kind of marking down, Okay,
Speaker 1: on this day, here's how I was feeling. Did I
Speaker 1: buy anything that day? I wonder if even like journaling,
Speaker 1: that kind of thing would be helpful for somebody to
Speaker 1: identify what their triggers might be. Totally, journaling is a
Speaker 1: great way to identify emotions, period, and there's so many
Speaker 1: benefits to journaling. It's there's so many benefits, But if
Speaker 1: we're looking at it from an emotional spending perspective, if
Speaker 1: you start journaling what you've been doing, then you can
Speaker 1: read back. You can go back and say, look, what's
Speaker 1: happened that day. Maybe it had an interaction with a
Speaker 1: family member that was negative, or you had a very
Speaker 1: stressful day at work, or you know something else was
Speaker 1: going on that you may not be so conscious about
Speaker 1: at the time. But when you take a step away
Speaker 1: from it and you can go back to, say, your journal,
Speaker 1: which really does help jog your memory as to what's
Speaker 1: gone on. I mean, think about our lives are so
Speaker 1: busy and there's so much information being shot at us
Speaker 1: all the time. It's hard to remember what you were
Speaker 1: feeling yesterday, the day before, even a week before. So
Speaker 1: if you and you start to write down the events
Speaker 1: around you're purchasing, you'll be able to identify some common
Speaker 1: denominators and some commonalities in your purchases. And by doing so,
Speaker 1: you'll then be able to see and become aware that
Speaker 1: there's something that's triggering you to do that, and then
Speaker 1: you can I once you identify that, you know you're
Speaker 1: gonna feel so you're gonna feel like a weight lifted
Speaker 1: off of you. But that journaling is super important gives
Speaker 1: such perspective, I think to be able to look back.
Speaker 1: We think we're going to remember what has happened in
Speaker 1: our lives, but reality is we don't. I don't remember
Speaker 1: what I ate two days ago, similar to what you're saying, Leslie,
Speaker 1: So and and then being further away from that experience
Speaker 1: can help to bring new perspective and realizations and self knowledge. Right,
Speaker 1: I think you make a great point. You know, when
Speaker 1: we first started talking, we were talking about like what
Speaker 1: what you do over the weekend. So you might talk
Speaker 1: generally out your your experiences over the weekend. I did this,
Speaker 1: or I did that, But are you really talking about
Speaker 1: the feelings? And when you're journaling and you can write
Speaker 1: things down, you're in the moment and you can relive
Speaker 1: those moments again in the future really without having to
Speaker 1: call on your memory to do that, because there's there
Speaker 1: are so many things that impact our thought processes in
Speaker 1: our mindset, and you would look back in your journal
Speaker 1: and see what you were thinking at that time, which
Speaker 1: could be very different from what you're thinking today, and
Speaker 1: that could just be a week or a month or
Speaker 1: a couple of months. Even think about our thinking and
Speaker 1: our thought process January and February and how that's changed
Speaker 1: dramatically March, April, May, June and so forth. Yeah, which
Speaker 1: is why I think manually tracking your transactions when you're
Speaker 1: trying to get control of your spending is so important.
Speaker 1: And then you can just add this one little extra
Speaker 1: thing on top of it where you're like, okay, these
Speaker 1: are kind of some standout things that happened today, and
Speaker 1: then once you are identifying patterns you can look back
Speaker 1: on over weeks to see like how these patterns are
Speaker 1: going out, what's happening. So if you're already manually tracking
Speaker 1: your transactions, this is just like a small extra step
Speaker 1: that you can do to like get control of your spending.
Speaker 1: And it's like not that hard, just like do you
Speaker 1: know writing a couple of sentences before you go to
Speaker 1: bed at night makes can make so much difference. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know, identifying your biggest and your most consistent what
Speaker 1: we call spending triggers, is super important because once you
Speaker 1: know that spending trigger, you'll become more aware of them.
Speaker 1: You'll stop and you'll think before making the purchase out
Speaker 1: of an emotion and not really the necessity. I love
Speaker 1: the whole person approach that happens here, Like I'm getting
Speaker 1: this visual of having all of your expenses listed out
Speaker 1: on a document as well as your emotions and how
Speaker 1: your day when how intertwining, which we are like we
Speaker 1: are whole people bowl and all these aspects of our
Speaker 1: personhood intersect and if we could get closer and closer
Speaker 1: to making those connections, my goodness, will we be a
Speaker 1: healthier person for it. But what an interesting concept. My
Speaker 1: mind is being a little bit blown thinking about at
Speaker 1: like my budget and my journal to coinciding. But how
Speaker 1: amazing would that be. It's very empowering. Actually, So if
Speaker 1: you if you include your journaling with your purchasing and
Speaker 1: your budgeting, he'll become so intertwined that, you know, it'll
Speaker 1: become second nature to understand. Okay, so I'm making this purchase.
Speaker 1: Now I understand why I'm making this purchase and how
Speaker 1: I ended up where I am in the first place.
Speaker 1: What's motivating me to get where I am? Again? The motivation.
Speaker 1: I keep going back to that example of going to
Speaker 1: the mall. But you know, sometimes I think, you know, um,
Speaker 1: so there's all these off I'll give you a good example.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking for a new office space, right and
Speaker 1: there's office space around this big mall here on Long Island.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't want office space over there because
Speaker 1: I'll be too tempted to go and shop during lunch
Speaker 1: or you know, there's there's like department stores there. I'll
Speaker 1: be thinking, oh, I should be going in there having
Speaker 1: a sale. But if I keep myself away from it
Speaker 1: so I know what my triggers are, I become aware
Speaker 1: that if I see it then and I visual and
Speaker 1: I'm visualizing it's in my face, then I'm gonna want it.
Speaker 1: So if I keep myself kind of away from it
Speaker 1: and I get an office space in an industrial part,
Speaker 1: likely just but that kind of example is just you know,
Speaker 1: that's my kind of trigger. But for you it may
Speaker 1: be something similar or different. The fact pattern is slightly different.
Speaker 1: But if you could be aware of what makes you
Speaker 1: trigger by knowing why you're buying what you're buying, it's
Speaker 1: so empowering. Yeah, and you don't I mean, if it
Speaker 1: seems kind of overwhelming to commit to a less I
Speaker 1: like this, you could just see like a financial journaling
Speaker 1: challenge where you spend like ninety days, I'm going to
Speaker 1: track my transactions and like journal about them, you know,
Speaker 1: emotionally and see what happens. See we you can get
Speaker 1: and just doing it for like a month or two
Speaker 1: or three months, and then even that complicated, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: could just be like you could do an emoji next
Speaker 1: to it, like on the feeling it could you could
Speaker 1: have a fear emoji, you could have an anger emoji,
Speaker 1: you could have a sad emoji, Like just put something
Speaker 1: next to it, that identifies that and and something that
Speaker 1: you identify with that could be that identifiable emotion. So
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be overly complicated where you know,
Speaker 1: you're now you're you have in your head you're visualizing, well,
Speaker 1: I should I lay on the couch and have a
Speaker 1: freud like session about why I'm doing this? No, you
Speaker 1: could just put an emoji next to the purchase. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: most budgeting apps will have like a note section for
Speaker 1: a transaction, so yeah, it's great. Yeah, what are some
Speaker 1: alternatives too emotional spending? Once we start to identify these patterns?
Speaker 1: So some alternatives to emotional spending are you know, you
Speaker 1: have to find again, once you identify the ways in
Speaker 1: way which you are triggered by this, you can find
Speaker 1: ways for healthier outlets. So you could say to yourself,
Speaker 1: all right, so I'm feeling I'm feeling this way, you know,
Speaker 1: and I'm feeling and I'm tempted to go purchase because
Speaker 1: I'm feeling that, you know, I want to make myself
Speaker 1: I'm angry, it's something that happened, and this will distract
Speaker 1: me from being angry. That's one way to distract you,
Speaker 1: but there are other ways to distract yourself from a
Speaker 1: particular feeling. So you could take a walk, you could
Speaker 1: do yoga, you could exercise. You know, a lot of
Speaker 1: it is really being powerful within yourself and your mind
Speaker 1: to understand once you know what the trigger is, what
Speaker 1: you could do to make changes to that. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what's super important. It's really that self awareness,
Speaker 1: peace and trying to get yourself in a place where
Speaker 1: you know that. I mean again, you have to talk
Speaker 1: to yourself and you have to have conversations within yourself,
Speaker 1: which just super normal and okay, and you're saying this
Speaker 1: is how I'm feeling, and this is what I would
Speaker 1: want to do to make myself feel better. What are
Speaker 1: some other things that I could do to make myself
Speaker 1: feel better in the moment? And um, talking about it
Speaker 1: is really important also, So find a friend or a
Speaker 1: significant other or somebody that you can have a conversation
Speaker 1: with and say, hey, you know, I'm having a tough
Speaker 1: day and I'm feeling like doing you know, this is
Speaker 1: what I'm feeling like. You know, do you have a
Speaker 1: few minutes can I just talk it out with you?
Speaker 1: And you know, if you could, if you could get
Speaker 1: it out and talk about it, you can write about it.
Speaker 1: That's again another really good way that the process of
Speaker 1: the additional process of journaling and being really detailed and
Speaker 1: that are the great ways for you to um distract
Speaker 1: yourself and find healthier solutions than just purchasing. I love it, Leslie.
Speaker 1: I think what we're really talking about here is coping mechanisms,
Speaker 1: and there are healthy and unhealthy coping mechanisms, and spending
Speaker 1: unnecessarily on things that we don't want that then leads
Speaker 1: to that guilt and shame that you're talking about. That's
Speaker 1: that would be on the unhealthy spectrum. Uh, certainly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there is a spectrum to it. What we could choose
Speaker 1: to do to bring about care for ourselves or what
Speaker 1: we think is going to be caring. But I think
Speaker 1: you make an important point here that I just want
Speaker 1: to highlight that you need to find healthy outlets. It
Speaker 1: can't just be I'm not going to spend. We do
Speaker 1: still have to deal with that emotion and we have
Speaker 1: to replace that spending with something else. And you've just
Speaker 1: given a fantastic list of verbal processing, writing, self talk,
Speaker 1: having some of these things prepared, which I believe we
Speaker 1: Jen Jen and I talked about in our self care episode,
Speaker 1: just creating a whole list ahead of time. Again to
Speaker 1: highlight your point, Leslie, of we're not doing this in
Speaker 1: the moment. We are doing some of this back end
Speaker 1: work ahead of time when we're not in that emotionally
Speaker 1: vulnerable spot. So to be able to have a list
Speaker 1: already prepare of I know that getting near water helps me,
Speaker 1: or I know that walking outside helps me, or I
Speaker 1: know that petting my animal helps me, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: Sometimes those things are hard to access when we're in
Speaker 1: the moment. So already just having a simple list of like,
Speaker 1: these are the things that I do to care for myself,
Speaker 1: so that when we might be like, Okay, I'm angry,
Speaker 1: I'm upset, I'm overwhelmed, to just look at the list.
Speaker 1: There's not a whole lot of thinking that needs to
Speaker 1: be involved there. Just let me pick something off of
Speaker 1: this list. What's low hanging fruit, what's accessible to me
Speaker 1: right now? Um, And you've given us a great start, Leslie.
Speaker 1: And I think I think that you can also as
Speaker 1: you buy things, if you start to say to yourself
Speaker 1: on a regular basis, whether you're whatever, you're purchasing necessities
Speaker 1: or wants, say yourself, why am I buying this, determine
Speaker 1: what your wants and needs are. And if you start
Speaker 1: to get in the habit of doing that, you'll start
Speaker 1: to start You'll ask yourself, under every circumstance, what am
Speaker 1: I doing? And why am by purchasing this? And when
Speaker 1: you start to get into that habit, and a habit
Speaker 1: forms it about thirty days if you can be habitual
Speaker 1: about asking yourself that question every purchase, and I mean
Speaker 1: from gas to if for your car, for everything you purchase.
Speaker 1: So if you start to do that, you start to
Speaker 1: become super conscious of your purchases because I think that
Speaker 1: you're so right. You can't when you're in the moment
Speaker 1: and you're having one of these feelings, it's very hard
Speaker 1: to turn that off. So if you start ahead of time,
Speaker 1: when things are nice and calm, and you can be
Speaker 1: consistent with the process, then when the when the peak comes,
Speaker 1: when the emotions hit and things go a little more awry,
Speaker 1: you'll be in the same thought process where you're asking yourself,
Speaker 1: do I really need this? Is this a want or
Speaker 1: a need? You know? Why am I doing this? And
Speaker 1: I think if you start treating yourself mentally ahead of
Speaker 1: time and consistently, the self care on a daily basis,
Speaker 1: you'll find that you know that you won't have the
Speaker 1: same spikes in these emotional needs. Where are you're creating
Speaker 1: a where situation is created that's forcing you into an
Speaker 1: emotional spending circumstance. Yeah, which really, as you've identified, turns
Speaker 1: out to be not not great anyhow, we we've got
Speaker 1: that after shock, emotion of guilt or shame or in
Speaker 1: my situation, I usually sweat, I just like get always
Speaker 1: sweaty candidate with my credit card for something that I
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't have just bought sot to not be able
Speaker 1: to breathe in you that wasn't it didn't help, but
Speaker 1: compounded the difficult situation and now I need deodorant. So
Speaker 1: it's very it is. The spending in general is emotional. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's so many go on spending anything because we're a
Speaker 1: we are always talking about budgeting where and you know,
Speaker 1: depending on the generation you come from, you know, money
Speaker 1: is kind of a newer topic. Honestly, Like in the
Speaker 1: PA asked, money was never talked about. So think about
Speaker 1: how repressed thoughts and feelings had been about money and
Speaker 1: spending and now we talk about money so much more.
Speaker 1: And budgeting and your credit your credit score and not
Speaker 1: getting into debt or how to stay out of debt,
Speaker 1: and those topics are so they trend all the time.
Speaker 1: So now it's right in front of you about what
Speaker 1: is almost a judgmental perspective, like I shouldn't spend, I
Speaker 1: shouldn't have credit card debt, I shouldn't have bared credit.
Speaker 1: And so there's feelings of guilt, beings almost thrown at
Speaker 1: you or created. And then those feelings are you know,
Speaker 1: internalized coming from older generations who never talked about it,
Speaker 1: so you didn't grow up necessarily talking about these things,
Speaker 1: and now you have media and discussions about it, but
Speaker 1: you're not really sure where they should go. So I
Speaker 1: think that topic of money, spending and budgeting is a
Speaker 1: very emotional top topic for people to begin with, because
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure. I had to compartmentalize what the
Speaker 1: feelings are that you should have during the process of
Speaker 1: purchasing and then you your money. It's it's a great
Speaker 1: point identify where have we come from, even not just
Speaker 1: what's our personal history with spending in the emotions attached
Speaker 1: to it, but also digging even deeper to what is
Speaker 1: my family's financial story and how does that play into
Speaker 1: the way that I approach purchases or finances or budgeting.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's all intertwined and we can dive
Speaker 1: as deep as we want. But that I was in
Speaker 1: a store yesterday and the girl, Um, the sales girl
Speaker 1: said to me, Um, my family comes from the idea
Speaker 1: that if you don't have the money, you don't buy it.
Speaker 1: So it was so. And I think that goes right
Speaker 1: to that point where you know your families, your your
Speaker 1: parents and grandparents had had had discussions about money. Whether
Speaker 1: they didn't have discussions, that's still that's still a discussion,
Speaker 1: if it was quiet or there was comments made like that.
Speaker 1: And that's imprinted on you from a very young age.
Speaker 1: And when it's imprinted on you, unless you become aware
Speaker 1: of that as an adult, it carries with you and
Speaker 1: it does create the motivations and the underlying subconscious behaviors
Speaker 1: that we have when it comes to our view of money,
Speaker 1: our ideas of money, or are spending habits. So it
Speaker 1: is something to be explored. You know, sometimes you might
Speaker 1: find when you're doing the journaling process and asking yourself
Speaker 1: while you're buying something, you might actually find that some
Speaker 1: of it does relate back to your childhood, that some
Speaker 1: impacts of the thoughts and um judgments about money maybe
Speaker 1: impacting your emotional spending today. Yeah. I was actually just thinking,
Speaker 1: like when when I was trying to think of an
Speaker 1: example of like an emotional spending that might be like
Speaker 1: really common, my first thought was, like, if I had
Speaker 1: to go spend time with my mom and we were
Speaker 1: if this was like five years ago, um, and I
Speaker 1: had to go spend time with my mom, I would
Speaker 1: have to stop at Starbucks before every time and like
Speaker 1: get a latte to make myself feel better because I
Speaker 1: was just so like anxious about it. Okay, so that
Speaker 1: is emotional spending. It is emotional spending. It doesn't have
Speaker 1: to be that you walked into a store and you
Speaker 1: spent you know, a hundred dollars on a pair of
Speaker 1: shoes you shouldn't have. It could be emotional spending on
Speaker 1: a four dollar a cup of coffee exactly. And then
Speaker 1: like how do we combat that? Like figuring out like
Speaker 1: figuring out that's what you do, like after a few
Speaker 1: weeks of recording it, and then it's as simple as
Speaker 1: figuring out, Okay, what's something else that can like soothe
Speaker 1: my anxiety that doesn't cost money but gets me the
Speaker 1: same emotional result. Um, I think yeah, or better or
Speaker 1: maybe going to counseling and fixing those things. But and
Speaker 1: that is a way and that is a way out too,
Speaker 1: I mean there, Therapy is is not a new concept.
Speaker 1: It's it's very um open and talked about. And therapy
Speaker 1: is a wonderful tool to help you become insightful and
Speaker 1: become aware of these things and then learn what those
Speaker 1: triggers are, because sometimes these triggers are much deeper and
Speaker 1: more difficult to deal with just by yourself. And you
Speaker 1: make a really good point going to therapy. There's nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with it at all. It helps you understand yourself better.
Speaker 1: And if you can help understand yourself and find healthier
Speaker 1: ways to manage what those triggers are, you're gonna be
Speaker 1: and it's just gonna be a healthier person all over.
Speaker 1: Knowledge is empowering. What we're talking about here of learning
Speaker 1: ourselves better. It does empower us and helps us to
Speaker 1: continue on that trajectory of making good, healthy decisions for ourselves.
Speaker 1: And I love what you're saying here, Leslie about even
Speaker 1: the underlying message of It's not about guilt or shame
Speaker 1: for however you were raised or whatever you your typical
Speaker 1: approach to money is. But this this message of let's
Speaker 1: just learn ourselves better and care for ourselves better. And
Speaker 1: and so with that, if we find ourselves at a
Speaker 1: place of Okay, we just made an emotional purchase and
Speaker 1: we know it, like we we've discovered all these things
Speaker 1: and now we know it, what what would you recommend
Speaker 1: to somebody who can identify that, Okay, I just did this.
Speaker 1: How do I recover now? So? I think the first
Speaker 1: step to recovery is not being hard on yourself, is
Speaker 1: not beating yourself up and saying, I'm not a bad person.
Speaker 1: I did this, I shouldn't have done this, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm either gonna get in trouble or yelled at or
Speaker 1: or I'm or I'm yelling at myself in my own head.
Speaker 1: The first step is to be kind to yourself and say, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm really proud of myself for identifying that I just
Speaker 1: made an emotional purchase, and say and and you know,
Speaker 1: I try to keep everything really positive and say because
Speaker 1: it's baby steps in the recovery process. And once you
Speaker 1: you say to yourself. You know, I made this purchase.
Speaker 1: I'm not a bad person for making this purchase. I'm
Speaker 1: aware that I did it, and I'm really proud of
Speaker 1: myself for identifying. And now what can I do? Now
Speaker 1: is the time to write down why I'm feeling this.
Speaker 1: And now you've taken step number two in you know,
Speaker 1: writing it down, and you say, I'm really proud of
Speaker 1: myself that I actually took out the journal and wrote
Speaker 1: this down. And now going forward, I can make changes
Speaker 1: going forward and you can't. You can't go back necessarily
Speaker 1: and fix the past. You can learn from the past.
Speaker 1: And you could say again that I understand why I
Speaker 1: did what I did, and I think really being kind
Speaker 1: to yourself and saying, if I'm feeling stressed about going
Speaker 1: into a family event, you know, the holidays are coming
Speaker 1: up again, and it's you know, it's an unusual circumstance
Speaker 1: that we're going to be managing the holiday season this year,
Speaker 1: so that may be added stress. So this might be
Speaker 1: the time of year that you actually start spending more.
Speaker 1: So now going into it, you could say, all right,
Speaker 1: now that I've identified that when I see my family,
Speaker 1: I'm really stressed out and I tend to buy more
Speaker 1: or your um spend more during those times. So what
Speaker 1: can I do to make myself feel better about it?
Speaker 1: And I think that's the next step is to really
Speaker 1: at that understanding it's really about you, you know, just
Speaker 1: because somebody else has a feeling or is soothed by
Speaker 1: m a resolution to this problem doesn't mean that you
Speaker 1: are too. But again, be don't be hard on yourself,
Speaker 1: be very kind to yourself and forgiving and understanding and
Speaker 1: understand that the recovery process is sometimes one step forward
Speaker 1: and two steps back. And I often tell that to
Speaker 1: my clients when we're resolving debt in general, that you know,
Speaker 1: we're going to take a step ahead, but you might
Speaker 1: find we take two steps back. But we'll get ahead,
Speaker 1: but in the beginning things are a little bit more
Speaker 1: challenging because we need to fix some of the issues
Speaker 1: and I and fixing some of the issues requires that
Speaker 1: identification process and it's all emotional. It's it is all
Speaker 1: emotional based. So um, that's that would be my recommendation.
Speaker 1: And and really being kind to yourself, even learning to
Speaker 1: be kind to ourselves as such a novel concept. It's
Speaker 1: interesting that say that I actually work as a counselor
Speaker 1: in my day job, and it's something that I often
Speaker 1: say at the end of sessions the clients is be
Speaker 1: kind to yourself. And and I've thought not necessarily an
Speaker 1: easy thing to do, because you are our biggest critics
Speaker 1: and we're inside absolutely and we're criticizing ourselves so often.
Speaker 1: And again, if you can try to identify that pattern,
Speaker 1: you know, because you might actually find out the emotional
Speaker 1: spending once you've bought and now you're beating yourself up,
Speaker 1: that the patterns there, that you're almost making it worse
Speaker 1: because you made the purchase and now you're angry or
Speaker 1: disappointed with yourself and you and you start to almost
Speaker 1: um for lack of better words, beat yourself up for
Speaker 1: it and be hard on yourself. So you could get
Speaker 1: in your head and say, you know what, I'm identifying
Speaker 1: that I have this problem. I know I have this issue,
Speaker 1: and I'm not a bad person because I have this issue,
Speaker 1: but I want to be kind to myself. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be kind to Leslie today and say, Okay, you made
Speaker 1: this purchase. It's not the end of the world, but
Speaker 1: let's figure out how we could fix it. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: can become a vicious cycle if we're not careful and
Speaker 1: it happens in the debt part two. I have that
Speaker 1: a lot of my clients in debt because what ends
Speaker 1: up happening is obviously there's a lot of reasons why
Speaker 1: people get into debt. Emotional spending is one of the
Speaker 1: reasons why people get end up in debt and have
Speaker 1: a lot of credit card bills. And I sit with
Speaker 1: my clients when we can see each other face to face, um,
Speaker 1: and in the past, they're crying. It's a very emotional time.
Speaker 1: They're very hard on themselves, they feel very guilty, they
Speaker 1: feel there's so many emotions as part of that process.
Speaker 1: And to understand that that it is emotional, I think
Speaker 1: is an important piece of the puzzle to that you
Speaker 1: can't go into this with the idea that you're going
Speaker 1: to be detached from the process because emotional spending is
Speaker 1: just that it's based on feelings. Yeah. I was thinking
Speaker 1: um last weekend. Actually, I was like, every financial decision
Speaker 1: or question has two answers, a math answer an emotional answer,
Speaker 1: and you just have to decide which answer is right
Speaker 1: for you for each specific question. And I think we
Speaker 1: always feel so pressured to go with the math answer,
Speaker 1: what answer makes the most mathematical sense, and we don't
Speaker 1: consider the emotional answer, and we almost sometimes feel guilty
Speaker 1: when we choose the emotional answer when it's not the
Speaker 1: math answer. Right, if that happens a lot of that world,
Speaker 1: because in the world is very emotional, and that's where
Speaker 1: a somebody like myself who's looking at it. We call
Speaker 1: it business decisions is business versus personal feelings on these things.
Speaker 1: But someone who can really take that emotion out of
Speaker 1: it and help you um make good decisions. You know,
Speaker 1: when you start to think things through clearly and you
Speaker 1: remove some of the emotions. It's hard to do that
Speaker 1: on your own, it really is. Yeah, we're not saying
Speaker 1: be a robot and take all emotion out of everything,
Speaker 1: but to ensure that we're not making decisions purely out
Speaker 1: of emotions. That just perpetuates a problem for us. And
Speaker 1: that's the basis of emotional spending. It's just done because
Speaker 1: through emotions without a thought process. And what I think
Speaker 1: we're talking about is putting a little bit of the
Speaker 1: thought process into it so that it's not a emotional spending. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like our brains are are the friend that like
Speaker 1: we see a problem, somebody's having a problem, and we
Speaker 1: try and help them because we think we know what's best,
Speaker 1: and then it actually ends up hurting them. That's our brain.
Speaker 1: Our brain is trying to take over and like make
Speaker 1: a decision for us to try and like quote unquote
Speaker 1: help us. But like in the end, it's just not
Speaker 1: doing the right thing. Sometimes the brain is not always
Speaker 1: your friend. Do you know what is your friend and
Speaker 1: is always the right thing and is personal and professional?
Speaker 1: Best balance the bill of the we that's right, it's
Speaker 1: time for the best minute of your entire week. Maybe
Speaker 1: a baby was born and his name is William. Maybe
Speaker 1: you've paid off your mortgage, maybe your car died and
Speaker 1: you're happy to not have to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 1: That's Bill Buffalo Bills, Bill Clinton. This is the bill
Speaker 1: of the week, Leslie. Every week we invite our guests
Speaker 1: or listeners to share with us their favorite bill, and
Speaker 1: we know that you've got a good one prepared for us,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna pretend it like the first time we've
Speaker 1: heard it. But okay, let us know, alright, So you know,
Speaker 1: I really gave us a lot of thought as far
Speaker 1: as what bill, because I deal with bills every single day.
Speaker 1: I there was so many bills um mine and others.
Speaker 1: So in the beginning of covid UM, the beginning of
Speaker 1: the quarantine period of covid around March, there was so
Speaker 1: much unknown own um that was going to happen here
Speaker 1: in New York. We were faced with potential lockdown and
Speaker 1: then ultimately lockdown and the shutting down of businesses. And
Speaker 1: that was a really challenging time. So I took out
Speaker 1: my credit card bills from my business and what I
Speaker 1: did was I line item every single purchase in the
Speaker 1: last several months, reoccurring purchases, and what my bookkeeping staff
Speaker 1: and I did was we highlighted it. We called every
Speaker 1: single creditor on that list and we asked them what
Speaker 1: programs did they have, what were they offering at the
Speaker 1: time under the circumstances. And we called the credit card
Speaker 1: companies as well to ask them if there were options
Speaker 1: in reducing the interest rates, because even though you might
Speaker 1: pay your bills off every single month, there with that
Speaker 1: unknown situation, you might have need. You know, we're thinking
Speaker 1: what if we needed to finance something, Where would we
Speaker 1: be at if we needed to um take bills? If
Speaker 1: there wasn't cash flow coming in, how would we manage
Speaker 1: the bills. So what what we did was we went
Speaker 1: through each one of them and we were shocked. I'm
Speaker 1: personally shocked at how many of these vendors were willing
Speaker 1: to give us three months no payments, three months for free,
Speaker 1: reduce our interest rates. We turned off programs that we
Speaker 1: didn't need at all. We realized at times we were
Speaker 1: being double billed on two different cards for the same service,
Speaker 1: and we were able to get a credit back. Um,
Speaker 1: believe it not. Our facts service. We have multiple facts lines,
Speaker 1: so there was some confusion on the bills about you know,
Speaker 1: the the facts lines, so it shows up as a fact,
Speaker 1: so we check it off. But when we called up
Speaker 1: and we asked them to itemize the expenses, we had
Speaker 1: them also tell us which bills they were charging us
Speaker 1: on and it turned out they were on several different
Speaker 1: credit cards for the same account, so we were able
Speaker 1: to get a refund back. We saved I have to
Speaker 1: tell you, I can't. I don't know numbers of what
Speaker 1: we saved at the top of my head, but we've
Speaker 1: saved a lot of money just by going through those
Speaker 1: credit card bills on reoccurring payments. I mean, as a business,
Speaker 1: you have a lot of recurring payments every month. But
Speaker 1: I could tell you that that exercise was one of
Speaker 1: the best things that happened to us during COVID, because
Speaker 1: we saved money, we consolidated, we reduced our interest rates,
Speaker 1: and we got rid of things that we just didn't
Speaker 1: need anymore. Wow, it was an unfortunate reason for that push,
Speaker 1: but it sounds like such an excellent exercise for businesses
Speaker 1: or individuals to do on a regular basis. COVID or not. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I have to tell you that COVID had so many
Speaker 1: that the circumstances surrounding COVID, while unfortunate from a health perspective,
Speaker 1: the reality was what a step back, What a fabulous
Speaker 1: opportunity for a step back in figuring out what's important financially,
Speaker 1: you know, family wise and medical wise as well. But
Speaker 1: just from a financial perspective, it was a great opportunity
Speaker 1: to really take a look at rebudgeting. I mean, we
Speaker 1: re budgeted several times. We cut out expenses that we
Speaker 1: just didn't need. We trimmed down that budget to almost
Speaker 1: you know, what could I get away with that was
Speaker 1: bare bones billing? Wise for us if we needed to
Speaker 1: be if we were going to be in a position
Speaker 1: where we were going to be shut down, who knew
Speaker 1: how We had no idea how long we were going
Speaker 1: to be shut down for and what the cash flow
Speaker 1: situation was going to be like. So it was COVID
Speaker 1: really from that perspective, was you know, on a positive
Speaker 1: note of COVID, that was really a good experience for us. Wow. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And there's still more like things that individuals can take
Speaker 1: advantage of as far as like payment relief and lower
Speaker 1: interest rate. It's like, no, this is not over. So
Speaker 1: if you have not done this yet, this is the
Speaker 1: perfect time to do it. Absolutely, you should be going
Speaker 1: through your bills. My recommendation is going through your bills
Speaker 1: on a regular basis and taking a look at every
Speaker 1: single month what it is that you're being charged or
Speaker 1: remember that some of your your bills are quarterly or yearly,
Speaker 1: like your homeowners insurance or or carp car insurance. There
Speaker 1: are things that come in quarterly or yearly that you
Speaker 1: may not have seen yet that that March, you know,
Speaker 1: that March, April, May June period where things are really
Speaker 1: challenging that didn't come up and now in later part
Speaker 1: of the year, you might be finding that there's more expenses.
Speaker 1: So this, the COVID situation from a financial perspective, is
Speaker 1: far from over, and in my experience, it won't be
Speaker 1: over for years. And there are opportunities right now to
Speaker 1: take a look at your expenses, you're billing, you're spending,
Speaker 1: whatever is on there, and look at it and decide
Speaker 1: what is the most important. Call up these creditors and
Speaker 1: ask them Listen, I've been a good customer. I've been
Speaker 1: I've had your credit card for ten years, or I've
Speaker 1: been paying every single month and I never missed a payment.
Speaker 1: What options do you have? Can you lower my interest rate?
Speaker 1: What can you offer me that would um entice me
Speaker 1: to stay on as a customer. They don't want to
Speaker 1: lose No one wants to lose business right now, so
Speaker 1: they're gonna find creative ways to keep you as a
Speaker 1: customer as well. So and if you're having challenges and
Speaker 1: you'r um your cash flow isn't what it was, call
Speaker 1: up for balanced billing and call up your utility companies.
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid to ask. I negotiate everything. Call up
Speaker 1: every single creditor and just ask the girl what they're
Speaker 1: willing to do. The word that anybody could ever say
Speaker 1: to you is no and and no. It doesn't always
Speaker 1: mean no. You can always say are you sure? There's
Speaker 1: no other options? Is there anything you know? Just ask
Speaker 1: the right questions. Yeah. No, sometimes means you call back
Speaker 1: and you talk to someone else. That's fair. Yes, I
Speaker 1: love it. I love it. Well. If you have a
Speaker 1: bill for us that you want to share, please visit
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends podcast dot com slash bill and leave us
Speaker 1: a bill and we will play it eventually on the air.
Speaker 1: We have quite a few right now. But just because
Speaker 1: you haven't heard yours yet does not mean it's not
Speaker 1: coming unless it's just unless you just call them say
Speaker 1: who do this? Which I do like those bills too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: someone number weird messages. It's time. Sometimes it does come up.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Now it's time for the lightning lightning round?
Speaker 1: Do do? We just yell at our gas on this
Speaker 1: we yell at each other. We yell at our gas.
Speaker 1: You're from family, Yeah, I think you're good. I take okay,
Speaker 1: you could say that I can't manage. Okay, welcome to
Speaker 1: the family. Um, we are doing something like a smidge
Speaker 1: unique for this lightning realm because I found this article
Speaker 1: from Bustle and it has a lot of gifts and
Speaker 1: it's very fun, and it's titled seven Signs you might
Speaker 1: be emotional spending. And so we're going to go through
Speaker 1: and play which emotional spender are you? Game. It's a
Speaker 1: new game I came up with this morning and we're
Speaker 1: playing it now. There's no winners, but there's also of
Speaker 1: the losers. Yes, so we're just going to go through
Speaker 1: these and then when we come across one that we are,
Speaker 1: we're gonna like ding ding ding and then say why.
Speaker 1: And you can do that in your car or wherever
Speaker 1: you're listening to this from and just be like ding
Speaker 1: ding ding and then give us your example. You're one
Speaker 1: step closer to self knowledge. Yes, maybe in the Frugal
Speaker 1: Friends community you can let us know they're on Facebook.
Speaker 1: All right. First one, you are the instant gratification spender.
Speaker 1: Everyone likes new things, but if the feeling of instant
Speaker 1: gratification is a big part of the picture, you might
Speaker 1: be emotionally spending an attempt to inspire happiness and excitement.
Speaker 1: You might not otherwise feel. No One on the call
Speaker 1: all right, because emotional spender number two, you shop to
Speaker 1: escape ding ding ding ding ding. So shopping is fun,
Speaker 1: whether it's online or in a store. It can also
Speaker 1: be pleasurably distracting to look at storefronts and compare items.
Speaker 1: But if you do this regularly as a means of
Speaker 1: avoiding thinking about other pressing issues in your life, it
Speaker 1: might be a sign you're spending as a band aid.
Speaker 1: So Leslie tell us your example. So I find myself
Speaker 1: like at night I have to work, like since we're
Speaker 1: really not going anywhere these days, I find myself on
Speaker 1: the computer, you know, just like looking at like online shopping.
Speaker 1: So I spent the time on Amazon, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: and then I get these emails that say the top
Speaker 1: things to purchase in different categories, and I get all
Speaker 1: excited about these top things that I'm I realized that
Speaker 1: I'm escaping, and then I'm distracting myself from everything else
Speaker 1: that's gone on and I and I'm so hyper focused
Speaker 1: on these items and reading the reviews and going through it.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like in another world. I love it.
Speaker 1: I yes, I have to um escape the house while Travis,
Speaker 1: my husband sleeps, Like during the days on the weekends
Speaker 1: because he works the nights. And so when I physically escaped,
Speaker 1: like I choose to go to Target or to al
Speaker 1: d or somewhere else that like is pleasurable for me,
Speaker 1: and just like walk around with my son. So I
Speaker 1: love Target. I have a question for you, though, So
Speaker 1: when I get into Target, I don't know if you
Speaker 1: have this experience. As soon as I get there, I
Speaker 1: feel my brain drain. As soon as I walk in,
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a sucking machine that sucks out
Speaker 1: my head. And I walk in, I go, why am
Speaker 1: I here? And then I, of course I need the
Speaker 1: whole car. I don't need just the little car, and
Speaker 1: I take the big cart. And then I started walking around.
Speaker 1: I get super distracted in the aisles and I'm like
Speaker 1: often running and then all of a sudden, I have
Speaker 1: a whole cart full of things I didn't even know
Speaker 1: I need it. Yeah, they do that on purpose, Yes,
Speaker 1: And I have gotten a lot better because I've been
Speaker 1: doing it for so long. Like I can go I
Speaker 1: can go into Target, and I'm not bragging, but like
Speaker 1: I can go into Target for what I went in
Speaker 1: there for and not come with anything else. I mean,
Speaker 1: I like don't want to brag, but like I could
Speaker 1: do that. This is a side note too, but I
Speaker 1: have a fifteen dollar gift card to Target and I'm
Speaker 1: not joking. I've been there twice and I can't spend it.
Speaker 1: I know that that makes me just like off the
Speaker 1: charts on an outlet, but it was such a phenomenon.
Speaker 1: I'm like, why can't I spend? And what I think
Speaker 1: I realized is I did want a lot of things,
Speaker 1: and a lot of them were more than fifteen dollars,
Speaker 1: and it's like, I want this. I want to make
Speaker 1: this a really special purchase, Like I want whatever I
Speaker 1: spend this fifteen dollars on to be like really meaningful.
Speaker 1: I don't just want to buy like a toilet bowl
Speaker 1: brush with it, and so I just can't do it exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I love it all right. Number three
Speaker 1: is you're the competitive spender. You feel like your purchases
Speaker 1: are always competing with others. And it's got this sweet
Speaker 1: Laguna beach gift like throwback if if you're old like us,
Speaker 1: where Elsie is trying to buy a golf club and
Speaker 1: who knows why, but I can only imagine because she's
Speaker 1: buying stuff to fit in with a crowd or give
Speaker 1: the appearance that she's of a certain socio economic status.
Speaker 1: So sometimes I think that's me because it's not like
Speaker 1: I don't feel like competition with other people, but I
Speaker 1: do often look like at what especially online and things
Speaker 1: that have brought to my attention through social media, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, I saw somebody was carrying a really nice
Speaker 1: pocketbook the other day, and I'm like, oh, I really
Speaker 1: like that and I want that. But it wasn't like
Speaker 1: I didn't feel competitive with this person. I just think, oh,
Speaker 1: I like that. I might want that too. Sometimes I
Speaker 1: feel like that my dream car is a is a
Speaker 1: Lexis r X three fifty, which is my dream car
Speaker 1: after like once my children go to college. So I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, any since I'm right, Oh my god, I
Speaker 1: can't even imagine, can't imagine. Uh So, but yeah, that
Speaker 1: was like I want to. I wanted to purely status,
Speaker 1: like there's no reason I need Alexis. But girl, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: see you could justify you can get it used. We
Speaker 1: had that very car and us you did, yes, all right,
Speaker 1: so spender four you buy stuff to make a new you.
Speaker 1: So there's nothing wrong with making changes in yourself, nor
Speaker 1: is there anything wrong with using things like clothing or
Speaker 1: hairstyles to express yourself. But it's worth noting that if
Speaker 1: you're unhappy with the aspects of yourself, buying a quote
Speaker 1: unquote new you by getting a whole new wardrobe, moving
Speaker 1: apartments and so on is not the answer to dealing
Speaker 1: with the real questions you have about yourself. Amen. Sorry, Jill,
Speaker 1: I don't think you're on this list now, now that
Speaker 1: you've said the gift card thing. I don't know if
Speaker 1: we're going to find you number five. You find yourself
Speaker 1: buying and returning a lot the buyer and returner. So
Speaker 1: return policies are great, and they're there for a reason.
Speaker 1: But if you find yourself frequently buying items and then
Speaker 1: returning them, it might be a sign the purchases are
Speaker 1: being made on impulse. No, I find out a deterrent frankly,
Speaker 1: because I don't want to be involved in the returning
Speaker 1: process work. But that's happening now. With COVID, you can't
Speaker 1: try things on at the store, so you got to
Speaker 1: buy it and return it. That was I think I
Speaker 1: just told you that story. I had to buy jeans
Speaker 1: the other week and I couldn't tread them on in
Speaker 1: the store, So I told the person at checkout, was like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to buy these and I'll be right back
Speaker 1: four bears, and then came back and returned to sorry, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you should take that home to your COVID environment at
Speaker 1: home and then bring it back to the store. Right.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm just going to the bathroom. That's it.
Speaker 1: I'm just going right right down the road. Um. Six.
Speaker 1: Is spending money in a way to celebrate yourself or
Speaker 1: the treat yourself spender? Yes, it's totally normal to want
Speaker 1: to go out and celebrate when good things happen to you,
Speaker 1: like a promotion or finally achieving a personal accomplishment. However,
Speaker 1: if you feel like you constantly need to spend money
Speaker 1: on a new item or experience as a means of
Speaker 1: treating yourself, it might mean that you're using spending as
Speaker 1: a way to connect with yourself at a big emotional distance.
Speaker 1: Wow deep, All right, Yeah, I don't do this often,
Speaker 1: but when I do, yeah, it's definitely a treat myself situation.
Speaker 1: And also that is related to food, like I often
Speaker 1: want food to be a treat and also you all
Speaker 1: know if you've been listening for any amount of time.
Speaker 1: I really don't like cooking. Uh it feels like a
Speaker 1: waste of my time, the entire process. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: will often just okay, this is fine because I need food,
Speaker 1: which is true, I do need food, but then like
Speaker 1: I take it a step further and like, oh and
Speaker 1: I need it to really taste good and I need
Speaker 1: it to be from this nice place, and yeah, I
Speaker 1: need to treat myself. Yeah, and we did that. We
Speaker 1: just recently celebrated three years of being debt free and
Speaker 1: spent money getting a nice dinner. But we did have
Speaker 1: a gift card. So the gift card, they were like, happen,
Speaker 1: it is worth celebrating. Like I'm not. I don't think
Speaker 1: that there's like and on my birthday. I so my
Speaker 1: birthday recently happened. And every year it seems that my
Speaker 1: husband just like takes me shopping, which I really don't shop.
Speaker 1: You've you've just heard. But on my birthday, I just
Speaker 1: feel like, Yep, today is the day if there's going
Speaker 1: to be any day that I spend money. So I
Speaker 1: do go a little hog wild on my birthday. But
Speaker 1: then that's it, and that that that's my day to
Speaker 1: do what I want. I mean, really I bought necessities.
Speaker 1: I did, but I enjoyed the process of that and
Speaker 1: treating myself in that way. Yes, but those are positive feelings,
Speaker 1: so it's not like kay to feelings, and it's not
Speaker 1: on a regular occurrence. Your birthday is one thing. It's
Speaker 1: if you the budget and you went crazy and you
Speaker 1: put yourself in debt for a year by buying on
Speaker 1: your birthday, then then a different outcome. But I think
Speaker 1: super smart the way you have well thanks guys for this,
Speaker 1: like pep talk. Or if you start spending like quote
Speaker 1: unquote for your birthday like three months ahead of your
Speaker 1: birthday and then at that point you're probably not spending
Speaker 1: for your per Usually my husband does buy me a
Speaker 1: gift and then he takes me shopping and I'm like,
Speaker 1: how much is this birthday costing us? I think for
Speaker 1: me too. I said that to my husband, I said,
Speaker 1: what are you doing for my birthday? Yeah? Okay, last spender.
Speaker 1: And this one's probably my favorite. It's uh, you spend.
Speaker 1: It's the stressed shopper. It says you spend when you're
Speaker 1: stressed about money, and it has the gift where the
Speaker 1: guy is like it says, bacon is on sale, so
Speaker 1: we get it all, and he's just throwing all the
Speaker 1: bacon into his cart, which is obviously if you don't
Speaker 1: have money, you shouldn't buy all the sale bacon. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so this one particularly tough to deal with.
Speaker 1: If you're stressed about money. It can sometimes feel like
Speaker 1: you're so far in the financial hole that you don't
Speaker 1: know how to handle it. So what do you tempted
Speaker 1: to do satiate the unhappiness or stress by going out
Speaker 1: to dinner or upgrading your TV? Quote unquote why you
Speaker 1: can because you're unsure what the future holds. And like,
Speaker 1: this is word for word what I felt while before
Speaker 1: he started paying off debt, Like I thought, I'm so
Speaker 1: in the hole it doesn't matter, so I might as
Speaker 1: well buy what I have with the money I have now,
Speaker 1: because eventually I'm gonna be in the poorhouse. So at
Speaker 1: that is not an uncommon thought process with clients, and
Speaker 1: what we we actually trying to be very specific because
Speaker 1: when clients come to us to resolve their debt, they
Speaker 1: often say, all right, well, what's the difference. If I'm
Speaker 1: going to resolve it this way, I'll just max out
Speaker 1: the card or I'll I'll take cash advances off my car.
Speaker 1: What's the difference if we're going to be renegotiating and
Speaker 1: consolidating or refinancing it or whatever we're gonna be doing
Speaker 1: with it, and we have to say do not from
Speaker 1: this point on, there's no more spending. So even though
Speaker 1: that is that is a very common thought process that
Speaker 1: I'm have so much debt anyway, what's the difference if
Speaker 1: I add to it? It's like putting blinders on, Like
Speaker 1: it's so much that I can't look at it. So
Speaker 1: now now I'm gonna know nothing about it and just
Speaker 1: keep going with how I've been going. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: put a band aid on the bleeding or the stop
Speaker 1: them stop it, yeah, lead out. Yeah. Oh god, well, Leslie,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming on the show. This was
Speaker 1: such a great episode. This was so fun, so wise,
Speaker 1: um and where can people find more about you what
Speaker 1: you've got going on? So thank you so much for
Speaker 1: having me. This was fun And you can find me
Speaker 1: at my website, which is teen law dot com. You
Speaker 1: can also find me personally on Twitter at Leslie h
Speaker 1: ten E s Q. Of course, on LinkedIn and um, Facebook,
Speaker 1: Instagram at tene t a y an e law group,
Speaker 1: and of course you're welcome to um call me some
Speaker 1: emails the UH. We have a great newsletter that we
Speaker 1: send out on finances and budgeting and lots of fun tips,
Speaker 1: so feel free to reach out. Yes, you are everywhere,
Speaker 1: so wherever wherever you are listening to this from you
Speaker 1: can find Leslie somewhere. So thanks again for being on
Speaker 1: the show. Thank you. Well. If that wasn't juicy, I
Speaker 1: don't know what it is. You described it as both
Speaker 1: saucy and juicy, so fine, are you hungry? Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was excellent and I would encourage anybody to go
Speaker 1: get more from Leslie because I think that that was
Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg. And UH and and hopefully,
Speaker 1: as we talked about throughout the episode, this will help
Speaker 1: you to understand yourself a bit more, how you appro money,
Speaker 1: what your triggers are, and of course please engage with
Speaker 1: us and the Frugal Friends Facebook community group and tell
Speaker 1: us what kind of spender you are, how you're going
Speaker 1: to approach journaling alongside finances, and kind of that blending
Speaker 1: of your financial and emotional self. I think Leslie gave
Speaker 1: some really good tips in there, and I don't want
Speaker 1: it to fall to waste. So yeah, please let us
Speaker 1: know how this episode has impacted you and what you're
Speaker 1: going to do as a result. Yes, please, and thanks
Speaker 1: so much for leaving your reviews on iTunes and Stitcher too.
Speaker 1: If this episode helps you in any way like trigger like,
Speaker 1: identify some triggers or whatnot, we would love to hear
Speaker 1: that in a review. Um. Kind of like this one
Speaker 1: from Sarah kay to three seven three one eight four two.
Speaker 1: I like the pine uh that's not pie three point
Speaker 1: one for She says, it just happens to be five stars.
Speaker 1: She says, love every single episode. This has been my
Speaker 1: favorite podcast for a while, and I'm finally getting around
Speaker 1: to writing a review. These two ladies make it feel
Speaker 1: like we're just friends hanging out and talking about finance
Speaker 1: over a cup of coffee. I love every episode, but
Speaker 1: the Frugal Dating one that just came out gave me
Speaker 1: so many great ideas for dates with my wife that
Speaker 1: won't break the bank. Love both of you and everything
Speaker 1: you do. And then one of those little happy emojis
Speaker 1: with the hearts on it, hearts all around. Yes, Thank you, Sarah,
Speaker 1: Thanks so much. I am drinking a cup of coffee,
Speaker 1: so it is exactly yes we are. That's literally what
Speaker 1: we just did. We also want to thank our friends
Speaker 1: who share these episodes on social media. So when you
Speaker 1: share the latest episode and tag us on Facebook or Instagram,
Speaker 1: we're going to add you into our monthly drawing. And
Speaker 1: here's what that monthly drawing is. For every five tags
Speaker 1: and reviews we get each month, we're giving away a
Speaker 1: copy of the Frugal Friends Workbook. And in case you
Speaker 1: don't know, the Frugal Friends work Book comes with two downloads,
Speaker 1: So you're really winning if you win this drawing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so keep reviewing us and leaving us on iTunes or
Speaker 1: STIs shirt sending it to Frugal Friends podcast at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com, and don't forget to tag us on social
Speaker 1: We'll see it. We'll give you a double tab, we'll
Speaker 1: share it whatever. We can see you next week by
Speaker 1: Frugal Friends is produced, edited and mixed by Eric Syrian.
Speaker 1: You and Leslie have the same birthday we do afterwards,
Speaker 1: August one. We're both Leo's and so obviously we get
Speaker 1: along and you're both eating the same breakfast essentially where
Speaker 1: we both had a cup of coffee and kind of
Speaker 1: like some sort of healthy big granola combination that we
Speaker 1: didn't eat all of we had like a little bit
Speaker 1: left over. It was kind of scary. I felt like
Speaker 1: I should have left, Like I was like not welcome anymore.
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, I had did have a moment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I might start driving to Long Island now,
Speaker 1: have a good trip south of quarantine at her place. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that would be fun. See you soon, Leslie,