1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Floomberg Sound On, 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: and I want you to know how sad I am 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: to be giving up the best job in the world. 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: But them's the break. Similar to the people in the 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: Trump administration, people in this cabinet knew who this guy 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: was for years. Floomberg Sound On Politics, Policy and perspective 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: from DC's top Names. I ask for your help and 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: continuing to fiper DG Safe and quick return homes US 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: back channels that are used in order to facilitate a 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: deal around. These kinds of exchanges work best without the 11 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: public attention. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio, 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: Boris Johnson announces his resignation. Welcome to the fastest hour 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: in politics with historic developments from London and big questions 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: about what comes next. Will be joined in a moment 15 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: by Anthony Gardner, former US Ambassador to the European Union 16 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: who went to college with the Prime Minister. Later this 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: nas are piling up in Georgia as the investigation into 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: the election spreads to Donald Trump's inner circle. Will have 19 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: the latest from Atlanta and Washington. In a conversation with 20 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Billy House our panel today Bloomberg Politics contributor, Democratic 21 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: analyst Genie Chanzano along with Republican strategist Doug High, former 22 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 1: communications director at the r n C. Just another day, 23 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: nothing going on. Well, that didn't take long. At this 24 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: time yesterday the headline was Boris Johnson refuses to quit. 25 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: Right fast forward twenty four hours and add more cabinet resignations. 26 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: The Prime Minister acknowledges the facts. It is clearly now 27 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: the will of the parliamentary Conservative Party that there should 28 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: be a new leader of that party and that for 29 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: a new prime minister. But it gets more complicated from there, 30 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: as Johnson stays at ten Downing and plans to stay 31 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: for several more months while his successor has chosen. But 32 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg is now reporting the rule and Conservative Party is 33 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: urgently drawing up plans for an accelerated contest to name 34 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: a new prime minister by the end of summer. So 35 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: it might be worth pulling out the bags now reaction 36 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: from the business community. Bloomberg spoke today with Mike Fries, 37 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: the CEO of Liberty Global Freeze forgive me Mike Freeze, 38 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: the telecom company that owns Virgin Media O two and 39 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: a joint ventures and a lot of work there. We 40 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: caught up with him at the Sun Valley conference in Idaho. 41 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: Freeze on working with Boris Johnson's team. His government was 42 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: very supportive of what we're doing. Is you know, we're 43 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: building fiber throughout the UK, We're investing in five G 44 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: were leveling up and upgrading the market in a way 45 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: that it deserves and requires, and we're spending billions doing it. 46 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: So I felt that his government was quite supportive of 47 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: that investment and giving us a shot at getting a 48 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 1: great return on that investment. So let's hope that continues. 49 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: That's the main focus for us. Everyone's asking what might 50 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: change here from business to politics. White House Press Secretary 51 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: Karin John Pierre are a line aunts with the United 52 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: Kingdom continues to be strong. Our special relationship with the 53 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: people UH in the country will continue to endure. None 54 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: of that changes, And I will I will remind you 55 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: a week ago, just a week ago today, when the 56 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: President was in NATO UH in Madrid for a historic 57 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: Natal summit. As you heard him speak at the press 58 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: conference and you saw what happened, you saw a reassurance 59 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: of real affirmation of NATO countries saying again what they 60 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: are going to continue to do, continue to support Ukraine, 61 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: but no one quite knows what the timeline will be 62 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: and of course who will follow. Tony Gardner was US 63 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: Ambassador to the European Union from seventeen. He's now senior 64 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: advisor at Brunswick Group and he joins US. Now, Tony, 65 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: you tweeted this morning, I've known the man for thirty 66 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: five years. Hasn't changed one bit since our time at Balliol. 67 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: So you guys went to college together. Did you not 68 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: expect him to line? Uh? Not this fast. No, I 69 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: got to meet him. We were at Bail College, Oxford together. 70 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: We debated together at the Oxford Union Debating Society. Stayed 71 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: in touch in Brussels. I was the European Commission. He 72 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: was a journalist writing fiction about the European Union. Uh. 73 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: He was the Spectator magazine and mayor and then Foreign 74 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 1: Secretary and introducing John Kerry. So I've known him for 75 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: a long time his writing fiction. Did did he ever 76 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: start writing nonfiction? Uh? Well, yeah, he has written nonfiction, 77 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: but certainly as a journalist. He was writing stuff about 78 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: the EU that was mostly half invented because he understood 79 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: very ale on his career that it was. It was 80 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: a smart way of getting ahead, and the news people 81 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: the kind of scratched the itch of a lot of 82 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: readers of the Daily Telegraph who off of the European 83 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: Union was kind of the enemy. So he's been very 84 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: smart and kind of figuring out how to use people 85 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: and to promote himself. The tweet that I mentioned you 86 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: you included the front page of this, uh, this new 87 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: edition of The Economist that comes complete with the headline 88 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: clown fall Britain after Boris and there he is looking 89 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: like a clown with a couple of flags, he's got 90 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: the helmet on and he's falling off of a zip line. 91 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: Is that the goofball image that you have in your 92 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 1: head having known him for so long? Well, look, he 93 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: ran for the presidency of the Oxford Union Debating Society 94 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: back in six We're obviously young at that time, and 95 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: he was very clever and that he realized that in 96 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: order to become president of the Union, he wouldn't win 97 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: on the image of someone from very privileged background had 98 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: been to all the right schools and stuff, for which 99 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: which he definitely had um. He went to eaton, which 100 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: is a you know, it's a very accosted environment. So 101 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: he developed this, uh, this image of kind of uh well, 102 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: you know, the humorous guy who never did much work, 103 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: who was a kind of would show up kind of 104 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: unprepared and unscripted, and people people loved it. As we 105 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: are reporting Ambassador of the morning meeting with number ten 106 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: staff as a discussion of his resignation statement and whether 107 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 1: he could remain for a period as a caretaker leader. Uh. 108 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: Some were in tears in the meeting. Others knew the 109 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: time had come. How long does he have as a 110 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: caretaker Well, it's it's a it's a long period of 111 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: time to stay in that post. Um. Other you know, 112 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: some people are urging him John Major, former prime ministers, 113 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: urging him to make that a shorter period of time 114 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: to find another leader, and I think, you know, it's uh, 115 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: it's it would be wiser for the country to move 116 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: on right now, because look, the UK has so much 117 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: going for it. I'm a huge fan of the country. 118 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: I've lived in the UK for for twenty four years 119 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: of my life actually, and regardless of the leader, this 120 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: country will continue to thrive in my view, even not 121 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: not as a member of the EU, but it needs 122 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: to now move on from a period that's been very turbulent. 123 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: Shall we say, yeah, what happened overnight? This time yesterday 124 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: we were talking about his refusal to resign, how long 125 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: he could hold out. People were, you know, placing bets 126 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: on the timeline and the whole thing was it. Was 127 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: it his conversation with family staff. Did somebody get to him? 128 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: Was it the resignation's ambassador? What happened in the last 129 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: twenty four hours. Well, I think we had nearly fifty resignations, 130 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: which is I think more than either his historic levels 131 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: are closed his or levels. And I think many of 132 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: his closest aids and gone to him said, look, if 133 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: you're not gonna resigning, you're gonna hold on. There's going 134 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: to be a rule change in this parliamentary group that 135 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: you know, typically once he won the leadership contest vote 136 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: and typically would have been protected for a year, but 137 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: they could have changed the rules and had another vote 138 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: which he would have lost. And I think people urged 139 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: him say, look, this is not the way to leave 140 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: your premiership. They probably urged him say, look, you can 141 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: be remembered for getting Brexit done. Quote unquote, you should 142 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: do that. You're going to have another career, so don't 143 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: don't do that. Don't hang on to the bitter end. 144 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: We're talking with Tony Gardner, former US Ambassador of the 145 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: European Union and a former classmate of Boris Johnson's uh 146 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,119 Speaker 1: in college. A lot of people are talking shortlists, Ambassador. 147 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: Is it too soon to do that. It's it's not like, 148 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: you know, forecasting a presidential election in the United States. 149 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: This could take a lot of different turns. Now, yeah, 150 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: I could take a lot of different turns. I mean, 151 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 1: the bookmakers are making their odds. Um. You know the 152 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: fact of that there's still very influential people who want 153 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: to see someone in that post who has been a 154 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: sworn proponent of getting Brexit done and seeing it through. 155 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: So that might in fact eliminate a number of the candidates. 156 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: I'm thinking of Tom tugan Hat, who is extremely competent 157 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: as a young Tory m P, who's played his interest 158 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: in the job. So it's more likely there will be 159 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: someone who is um, who's a fresh face, who's a 160 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: facial face of competence, who's perceived to be honest, which 161 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: is frankly a lot of people are are demanding right 162 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: now because they're they're frankly tired of being told one 163 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: thing in the discovering the twenty four hours of the 164 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: exact opposite happened. Uh. And this has been going on 165 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: for years. So a brexitier, but a fresh faced view 166 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: of competence and frankly U uh you know, I think 167 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: the former Chancellor Richie Senak is got to be high 168 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: on in one's list. Name keeps coming up in every 169 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: one of these conversations. Ambassador, Does the White House have 170 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: it right that nothing changes here in our relationship? Look, 171 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: I think it has it right. I mean this is 172 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 1: it has been, uh and will remain a key ally 173 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 1: of the United States on so many issues, and by 174 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: the way, not just security military issues. I lived through 175 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: some of this when I was at Post your unions. 176 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: There's hugely important allies on law enforcements, hugely important allies 177 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: on on other topics as well. Free trade, where the 178 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: UK is was frankly always on our side in at 179 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: least during the Obama years. Um in proposing view of freer, 180 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: liberalized trade, free competition, trans Atlantic unity, strong supporter of NATO, 181 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: which already mentioned security, but also a thought leader on 182 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: the digital economy, which we also care out uh in 183 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: many other areas besides, and also in climate change. So 184 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: for sure important and will remain as a country punching 185 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: above its weight. Fascinating conversation. Lastly, where we began, finishing 186 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: where we began? Ambassador, do you ever go to a 187 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: party with Boris Johnson? Yes? Is it the best party 188 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: you ever went to? He's an amusing guy, he's right, well, 189 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: he speaks well, he's humorous. Absolutely, it's good company party 190 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: gate with the Ambassador. I really appreciate the conversation. Tony Gardner, 191 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: Senior Adviser Brunswick Can, former US Ambassador to the EU 192 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: and the Obama years. We assemble our panel next. Never 193 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: a dull moment, not here. This is Bloomberg. It is 194 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: clearly now the will of the Parliamentary Conservative Party that 195 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: that should be a new leader of that party and 196 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: that for a new prime minister. Very well, good night, 197 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: and I've agreed with the Graham Brady, the chairman of 198 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: our back bench MPs, that the process of choosing that 199 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: new leader should begin now and the timetable will be 200 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: announced next week. Very well, I do, Andrew, Andrew, so 201 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: I want to say to the millions of people who 202 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: voted for us, in many of them voting conservatives, very 203 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: well say, I'd like to say and taste my first champagne. 204 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 1: I know that there will be many people who are relieved, 205 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: and perhaps quite a few who will also be disappointed. 206 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: Very well, good bye, and I want you to know 207 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: how sad I am to be giving up the best 208 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: job in the world. But them's the brakes. There's the brakes. 209 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: Thank you all very much. But how long does he have? 210 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: Boris Johnson wants to stay on until the next Prime 211 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: minister is expected, an idea, as Ambassador Gardner mentioned a 212 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: couple of moments ago. It was panned by former Prime 213 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: Minister John Major's calling on Johnson to leave immediately, saying 214 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: that it's unwise and maybe unsustainable for Johnson to remain 215 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: in office and that his new cabinet may not be 216 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: able to restrain him. Some of this sounds familiar, and 217 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: so we bring it to the panel. Bloomberg Politics contributors 218 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: Genie Chanzano, Democratic analyst and Doug his with US Today, 219 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: Republican strategist, former Deputy chief of staffed Eric Cantor, former 220 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: r n C communications director, Genie. This time yesterday we 221 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: were having a very different conversation. How much time do 222 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: you think he has now that he has acknowledged the facts? Well, 223 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 1: you know, I was saying yesterday maybe you could be 224 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 1: as short as a day or a couple of weeks, 225 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: and it happened very very fast. Um. But I think 226 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: the concern now is, to the point of your previous conversation, 227 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: is that as a caretaker, we're even hearing the British 228 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: press talk about this. Is it possible that he decides 229 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: not to step down, that he tries to pull up 230 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: quote unquote Donald Trump? Um, And there is some concern. 231 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: Do I think that's going to happen? No, But I 232 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: also think that that's why the committee, probably early next week, 233 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: because they don't trust him, is going to move to 234 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: get him out as quickly as possible. Doug, what do 235 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: you see happening here in the hours following this announcement? 236 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: We obviously I didn't know this was going to happen, 237 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: at least a lot of us until we woke up 238 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: this morning. It developed overnight, but there's not a lot 239 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: of patients for him to hang around. Oh and I'll 240 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: tell you, you you know, if we're using the phrase you know, 241 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: this time yesterday, this time yesterday. It was in the 242 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: UK and I was trading notes with two friends who 243 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: had previously worked for Boris Johnson, who who I had 244 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: done some work with Boris on who would who had 245 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: all along said he won't go, he won't go, he 246 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: won't go, and then changed their tune and said this 247 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: is over and it's now just a question about negotiating timing. 248 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: What was the resignations, what actually what became too much 249 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: to ignore It was the the initial two resignations of 250 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: the cabinet ministers, the Chancellor and the Health minister um 251 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: and then the snowball and pile on effective that to 252 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: where it became very very clear that this was just 253 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,479 Speaker 1: not sustainable. And so look, we'll see what the timetable 254 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: is now. You know, if he were to resign immediately, 255 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: not knowing fully the processes processes, would there be an 256 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: interim prime minister? Is that more or less stable than 257 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: what we than what we have right now? And and look, 258 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: you know I've I've spent a fair amount of time 259 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: with Boris Johnson, both in London and in in Washington, 260 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: d C. And Davos as well and I get that 261 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: people want to, you know, make cracks about his hair 262 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: and you know, the zip line and all of that. 263 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: But you know, if if we look back at the 264 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: Theresa may Um prime ministership, that was also a very 265 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: tumultuous time and you know, certainly there weren't the questions 266 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: about her honesty, but you can't say that that was 267 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: not a rocky road We have in in not just 268 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: American democracy right now, in the UK democracy, but if 269 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: you look throughout the world, Israel, France, you know, democracy 270 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: is in a very fragile place for a lot of reasons. 271 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: And so I don't think it's a massive surprise that 272 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: the UK, you know, is experiencing this right now. And 273 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: while there are a lot of people, as Boris Johnson reference, 274 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: that might be happy for him to go, it's very 275 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: clear that one person is and that's Zelinsky. Well okay, 276 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: So with that in mind, Genie, what's the worse idea 277 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: having a caretaker prime minister somebody comes into the interim 278 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: or leaving Boris Johnson until it's clear who his successor is. 279 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: And I'm asking you that through the prism of the 280 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: war in Ukraine, well, certainly, I mean I agree with 281 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: Doug Zelensky that he would like him to stay. You know, 282 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: you look at the polls, quite frankly and stunning how 283 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: popular somebody like Boris Johnson is in the Ukraine Visa VI, 284 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: how unpopular he is at home. The real the reality is, 285 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: you know, when Theresa May was a caretaker prime minister, 286 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: it was okay because while they disagreed on policy, personality 287 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: wasn't as much of a concern. Here there is a 288 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 1: real lack of trust of Boris Johnson and what he's 289 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: gonna do. And again I go back to the fact 290 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,400 Speaker 1: that there is some concern that while he said today 291 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: he would go, this determination to stay on for the 292 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: you know, a certain period of time has people concerned, 293 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: and so I do think that there is going to 294 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,719 Speaker 1: be an effort next week to push him out. I 295 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: don't think we will see a massive policy shift here 296 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: on the Ukraine, but of course that depends on who 297 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: follows him as well. Doug, you knew him, you worked 298 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: with him, Do you trust him, do you believe him? Well, look, 299 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: obviously there's been some issues of a lot of issues 300 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: of things that were said that yeah, turned out to 301 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: not be true, and that's that's ultimately you know why 302 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 1: why he is, why he's been pushed out and ultimately 303 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 1: had to go. But also here Stormer, maybe leave. It 304 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: sounds like you might not. It's all right, sit stay 305 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: with us, Doug and Genie. This is Bloomberg broadcasting live 306 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: from our nation's capital, Bloomberg to New York, Bloomberg eleven 307 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: Frio to Boston, Bloomberg one O six one to San Francisco, 308 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg nine sixty to the country Sirius x M General 309 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: one nine and around the globe, the Bloomberg Business app 310 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Sound On 311 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew. The District Attorney in Fulton County, Georgia, 312 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: wants some time with Rudy Giuliani and Senator Lindsey Graham 313 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: and several others as part of a special grand jury 314 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 1: investigation into efforts to overturn the election, an investigation that 315 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: could be a more immediate concern for Donald Trump than 316 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: what's happening now in Washington. Will discuss that next with Bloomberg. 317 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 1: Congressional reporter Billy how Quite a bombshell when we learned 318 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: from Cassidy Hutchinson before the January six Committee about a 319 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: week ago about the pardon request. Did Rudy Giuliani ever 320 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: suggest that he was interested in receiving a presidential pardon 321 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: related to January six? He did, pretty cut and dry. 322 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 1: But Rudy Giuliani says that never happened. This is him 323 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: talking on his podcast. Everybody in Washington, Washington wants to 324 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: make me a liar and a crook, and I'm not. 325 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: But I know I have to protect myself. Now, I 326 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: could have asked for a pardon for a very good reason. 327 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to get framed. I know I didn't 328 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: do anything wrong. It goes on to say that he 329 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: is being framed, not just here in Washington, where, of 330 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: course we've seen several snippets of his testimonies video testimony 331 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: before the January six Committee, But what's happening in Georgia 332 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: is worth your attention, and it's not getting a heck 333 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: of a lot of coverage here because well, there's just 334 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: too much going on every day, even outside of the story. 335 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: Of course, Bloomberg reporting that Giuliani, along with as I mentioned, 336 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: Senator Lindsey Graham and five others, called to testify before 337 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: the Special Grand jury in Atlanta. The d A Fulton 338 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: County has already taken testimony from George's secretary of State, 339 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,880 Speaker 1: and we could be about to learn a lot more. 340 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: Joining us to connect the dots between what's happening here 341 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: in Washington and this separate investigation happening in Georgia. Bloomberg 342 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: Congressional Correspondent Billy House, It's great to have you back, Billy. Uh. 343 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: This is something that is unfolding in Georgia. UH, and 344 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: and interesting that it's not getting so much attention because 345 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: our eyes are trained on what's happening here in Washington. 346 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: Is Rudy Giuliani in big trouble? Well, the Georgia of 347 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: Special Grand Jury in Fulton County does seem to be 348 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: zeroing in on him, if not actually a form of 349 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: President Trump. And it does seem to be kind of 350 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: ahead of what would have been, you know, anything but 351 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: boring congressional hearings, but also the Justice Department here in Washington. 352 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 1: The number of witnesses and the people they're calling seem 353 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: to be slightly ahead of the pace of both these 354 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: Washington investigations. So UH, Fulton County District Attorney Fanny Willis 355 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: has been at this. She's looking specifically at attempts to 356 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: overturn the Georgia uh results, and and she seems to 357 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: be setting the pace and she can actually you know, 358 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: levy charges as opposed to the January six committee, which 359 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: some people don't seem to understand. That's correct. I mean, 360 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: this is a special grand jury right now. So whatever 361 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: report it releases will then be turned over to her 362 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: and then she will have to decide whether to go 363 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: to a regular grand jury and get an indictment that 364 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: there are charges to be had. And she says she 365 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: hopes to uh, you know, not go past October. And that's, uh, 366 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: that's a pretty pretty fast pace at this point, giving 367 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: we're almost so in mid July, so a lot of 368 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: fast another fascinating aspect. And she has the governor of 369 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: Georgia giving recorded testimony on July. So she's nearing the 370 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: end because she's going to the big dogs right now. 371 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 1: She's already nibbled it at the edges. We're reporting as well, 372 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: Bloomberg lass as Senator Lindsey Graham is loawyering up and 373 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: we'll uh fight the subpoena. This is a different case 374 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: for these two gentlemen. Uh, does Lindsey Graham have a 375 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: chance to beat this? Oh? I think he does, just 376 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: on separation of powers arguments perhaps, but even more basic 377 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: as he can string out the legal battle on this 378 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: far past where Fannie Willis wants to go. He's being 379 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: accused of kind of trying to influence the outcome there 380 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: with two telephone calls. He can string this out forever. 381 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: And we've seen that in Washington investigations here separately here 382 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: in the Capital, as you've been covering. Billy former White 383 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: House counsel Pat Sipplony, whose name has come up repeatedly. Uh, 384 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 1: in the hearing so far, will testify before the committee. 385 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: It's going to happen tomorrow. We understand behind closed doors. 386 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: How important is that development? Oh, it's huge, huge, He's 387 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: he's emerged as very important witness. He's he's going to 388 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: testify in person. This isn't going to be remote. He's 389 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,360 Speaker 1: going to show up at the O'Neil building in Washington 390 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: and around ten am. And he has been involved, according 391 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: to Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony and other testimony and many of 392 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: the key events that have been unfolding for us in 393 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: these hearings, including warning please don't let the president go 394 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: to the Capitol that day as his riotous supporters were 395 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: on their way there. This is being described as as 396 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: a transcribed interview. Does that mean we will not see 397 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: or hear his voice or his image like we have 398 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: some of the others. Oh, no, anything, But there will 399 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: also be video of his testimony. Well that's the aim 400 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: I believe, as the you is that video. And however 401 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: many hearings we have one, two or three to go, 402 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: we don't know, so we could see some of this 403 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: or hear some of this as soon as next week. Right, 404 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: it's worth reminding everybody that the next hearing is actually 405 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: set for Tuesday. Absolutely, the next hearing stept for Tuesday, 406 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: supposedly focusing on the extremist groups ever behind some of 407 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: the violence. But there could also be another hearing next week, 408 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: and there's always going to be a concluding hearing sometime 409 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: in September when they unveil their actual report and recommendations. 410 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 1: So a video of anything could show up in those 411 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: next three hearings, and there might be more hearings that 412 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: we don't know about. They're kind of gone off script 413 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, adding adding chapters they have. I 414 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: mean it's actually been very compelling because we don't know 415 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: who's going to be, you know, even appearing as a 416 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: witness necessarily uh, from hearing to hearing. But to your point, 417 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: this next session is about connecting the dots to these 418 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: militia groups. That's the purpose of Tuesday's hearing, that is, 419 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: and that seems to be a heavy lift for the committee. 420 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: Uh the even Adam Schiff says, we'll wait and see 421 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,679 Speaker 1: what will show you. But uh, they're trying to link 422 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: the White House or people in the Trump board, but 423 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 1: directly to uh some of these people who are arranging 424 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: for these organizations or these uh people in the organizations 425 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: to show up that day and create some uh mischief. Uh. 426 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: So there's a mysterious alleged called that Trump wanted his 427 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: then chief of staff Mark Meadows to make to the 428 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: Willard War Room. We're Bannon and others may have had 429 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: connections with these groups, but all that has has never 430 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: been proven, and we'll see what the committee lays out Tuesday. 431 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: Billy House, it's always our pleasure. We appreciate the updates. 432 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Congress reporter who's all over this and will be 433 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: a busy man for the next hearing. You think the 434 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: Willard is going to rent out the war room? I mean, 435 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,719 Speaker 1: should they just put the plaque on the door right now? 436 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: People pay extra for that, right am I the first 437 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: person to suggest that. It's like when you're in Amsterdam 438 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 1: you visit the room where John Lennon and Yoko had 439 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: the bed in. Maybe not. We'll reassemble the panel next. 440 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: Genie is coming back along with Doug High on the 441 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: Fastest Hour in Politics. I'm Joe Matthew and Washington. But 442 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: we'll check traffic and markets for you on the way 443 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: to stay where you are. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg. 444 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: Sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The headline 445 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: on the terminal. Brittany Grinder pleads guilty to drug charges 446 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: in Russian court. This, of course, just a day after 447 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: her letter to President Biden was made public. The White 448 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: House responded, and of course after as well, her supporters 449 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: held another big rally in Phoenix. Grinder plays for the 450 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 1: Phoenix Mercury. Her wife Cherrell, spoke to the Crown, I 451 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: ask for your help and continuing to fight for BG 452 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: safe and quick return home. Let's make sure this ministration 453 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: knows that they have our support to do whatever is necessary, 454 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,959 Speaker 1: and that we are not going to ever be quiet 455 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: until she's home safely. And then she pleads guilty, Grinder 456 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: saying she mistakenly packed marian A vape cartridges in her 457 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 1: luggage when she flew off to play off season in 458 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: a Russian basketball League. Reaction from White House Press Secretary 459 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: Karine Sean Pierre. That was a legal advice clearly that 460 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: Brittany received from her from her lawyers. I cannot speak 461 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 1: to why the decision was made, Okay, remembering in light 462 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: of the the plea. Today, this administration has said repeatedly 463 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: that Grinder is being wrongfully detained. We believe that the 464 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: Russian Federation is holding uh is wrongfully details wrongfully detained 465 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 1: Brittany Grinder, and she is in intolerable circumstances right now, 466 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 1: and we are going to do everything that we can. 467 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: The President has this top of mind to make sure 468 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: that we get Brittany home safely. And also Paul Whaling 469 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: is now reportedly a prisoner swap in the works as 470 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: we reassemble the panel. Bloomberg Politics contributor, Democratic analyst Jeanie 471 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: Schanzano is here today along with Doug high Back, with 472 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: US Republican strategist former r n C communications director to 473 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: these add up to you, Doug, if the White House 474 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: is getting involved here publicly pushing for her releasing she's 475 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: being wrongfully detained only for her to plead guilty to 476 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: drug charges, what are we doing well? I mean, clearly 477 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: what's going on in Russia is the definition of a 478 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: kangaroo court, and clearly she's being used as as a 479 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: bargaining chip. And I think, you know, for Biden, this 480 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: presents a potential opportunity for him. So much of the 481 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: Democratic base has been demoralized with Biden, sometimes I think 482 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: unfairly because he's not seen as being angry enough or 483 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: fighting enough, even when his hands are often tied, say 484 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: on Supreme Court decisions and so forth. This gives him 485 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: an opportunity to not just get her back home him, 486 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: but to demonstrate his outrage, and to do so at 487 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin, who the world is already outraged with for 488 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: the actions in Ukraine. I hope he takes advantage of 489 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: this situation. Does a does a prisoner swap make you uncomfortable? 490 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: Though obviously we're going to have to let go a 491 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: bad guy to get a good guy back. Yeah. Look, 492 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: it's obviously not ideal, um, But this is unfortunately the 493 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: situation that we found, you know, that we found ourselves 494 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: in as a nation where one American essentially can be 495 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: held hostage so that Vladimir Putin, you know, can extract 496 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: pain points. So this is where Biden should talk tough 497 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: and be tough. What's your take, Jennie, Again, this is 498 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: for every story today. We refer to this time yesterday 499 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: because the message was a bit different out of the 500 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: White House. We heard about the letter President Biden called 501 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: Brittney Grinder's wife, who we just heard from, only for 502 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: a day later. For her to plead guilty, does that 503 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: change the story at all for you? It does to 504 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: a certain extent. I mean, when I heard about the 505 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: guilty plea, it became clear that there is a sense 506 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: among her counsel that she needs to admit guilt. She will, 507 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: by all, uh, you know, by what we can fathom, 508 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: she would be convicted almost certainly nine out of ten 509 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: times and be convicted for ten years. But she needs 510 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: to do that so they can have this discussion about 511 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: a potential prisoner swap, and I don't think we can forget. 512 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: And this is something I wanted to underscore yesterday, that 513 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: this is a black woman and a gay black woman. 514 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: Identity matters here because she's serving in a jail in Russia, 515 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: in a country with some of the cruelest lgbt Q 516 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: laws in the world, and so you can't under we 517 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: can't underscore that enough. And so I'm not surprised that 518 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: she decided to plead guilty. She has now said she 519 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: packed in a hurry, that's why she mistakenly carried the 520 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: cannabis oil in. But you know, I disagree slightly with Dog, 521 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: just to the extent that while I hope Biden does 522 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: everything he said, I think that there is a chance 523 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: that the pressure, the public pressure on Biden, this demand 524 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: for action, also makes it less likely that Russian officials 525 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: are willing to play ball. And that is a real 526 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: problem for Joe Biden, and more importantly at this point 527 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: for Grinder and Whalen, And that is a real concern, 528 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: or should be for all of us. Doug, is the 529 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: time to send Bill richardson overseas or what? Well, I 530 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: you know, the short answers I don't know. I actually 531 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: agree with with what you need. This is not a 532 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: perfect situation um for for Biden in any needs. So 533 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: you know, I hope that two things can happen, and 534 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: they're not necessarily all going to happen. One is that 535 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: we get our home um and the two that Biden, 536 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, is able to demonstrate to his base that 537 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: he can get upset, that he can get outraged and 538 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: stand up to somebody who needs standing up to. Vladimir 539 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: Putin is going to get away with everything that he's 540 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: allowed to get away with. And this is where it's 541 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: important to you know, as best we can, as imperfectly 542 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: as we can draw a line in the sand. If 543 00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: you're curious about the letter, by the way, that we 544 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: discuss yesterday, at this time, Karine John Pierre again, the 545 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,479 Speaker 1: Press secretary at the White House, says it has been delivered. 546 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,479 Speaker 1: Officials again attended Britney Griner's trial today and delivered to 547 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: her a letter from President Biden. We will not relent 548 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: until Brittany Paul Whalen and all and all other wrongfully 549 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: detained Americans are reunited with their loved ones. And that 550 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: is the focus of the UH Secretary of State. That's 551 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: the focus of the president national National security team and 552 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: his focus as well. All Right, so Genie Paul Whalen's 553 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: name is now part of the official response to Brittney 554 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: Grinder questions. We got into this as well. His family 555 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: says they have still not heard from President Biden. Is 556 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: that phone call in the works? Should it be? It 557 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: should be, and I would suspect it is. Um you know, 558 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: there's another aspect to this which is really hard to 559 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: discuss as we talk about both Whalen and Grinder in 560 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: these horrific conditions, which is that does this incentivize more 561 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: of these kinds of unlawful attempts by governments like Russia 562 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: to detain Americans unlawfully and illegally overseas if they get 563 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: a sense that the United States will then negotiate these trades, 564 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: that can be a very very dangerous road for the 565 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: United States go down. We've long resisted that, and I'm 566 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: not saying, you know, we should not negotiate on with 567 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: these on these two, but that has long been a 568 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: concern of the United States. But to your point, I 569 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: suspect there is a call to Whalen's family and rightly 570 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: should be from the White House some of the talk today, 571 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: and there have been reports on this, Doug Uh that 572 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: they could in fact be part of a prisoner swap together. 573 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: Can you envision a world? I mean, I think this 574 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: gets back to your initial point and the politics behind 575 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: securing the release even for a bad guy. Of these 576 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: two people, Grinder and Whalen in one pop. Yeah, I mean, 577 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: that's that's the reality of where we find ourselves. And 578 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: there's politics involved here. Obviously their domestic politics, there are 579 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: international and geopolitics, and I think Biden is at some 580 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: point going to remind himself will be reminded of the 581 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: domestic politics in this that his base, especially because we're 582 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: talking about, you know, a black gay woman and exactly 583 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: what Jeannie was talking about, the experience that you're going 584 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: to have in Russia. Um, you know, with that being 585 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: so difficult, that Biden is going to have to do 586 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: something domestically politically to his to demonstrate to his base 587 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,919 Speaker 1: that he's fighting for them, even if it's just one 588 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: person at a time. Our story on the terminal updating 589 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: all of this says, Russia hits at US hype on prisoners. Uh. 590 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: This is the idea from Russia that we're making a 591 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 1: big deal out of this, uh when she's actually going 592 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 1: through their uh, their legal process. You can qualify that 593 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 1: as you want. But the hysterics which they love accusing 594 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: Americans of apparently the last that we've heard here, there 595 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: is a chance Genie now having pleaded guilty, she could 596 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: serve ten years in prison. She could and again having 597 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: pleaded gil t I might understand the number is nine 598 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: out of ten. Some people say it's as close as 599 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,959 Speaker 1: from her situation, will be convicted and it will be 600 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: found guilty and have to serve ten years, of course, 601 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: barring some kind of swaps. So you know that has 602 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: she has got to be frightened. And we heard in 603 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: that that, you know, the pleas to the president and 604 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: her letter from her wife. I mean, this has got 605 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: to be an incredibly difficult situation for her. Her lawyer, 606 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,439 Speaker 1: as we are reporting via a Jents France Press, had 607 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: urged the court to impose quote as soft a sentence 608 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 1: as possible unquote. We'll let you know, of course, as 609 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: we learn more. Doug High, I want to bring you 610 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: back uh to where we were just a little while 611 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: ago this hour talking about Boris Johnson. You have a 612 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: unique view here. You've worked with him, you consulted with 613 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: him when he was mayor of London. To your point, 614 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 1: you spent time with him here in Washington, and I 615 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: didn't have a chance to hear your question just because 616 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,359 Speaker 1: we were running out of time here. Your answer rather, Um, Look, 617 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: do you take him at his word having spent time 618 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: with him, because obviously this has become a story of trust. Yeah, 619 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: And and look he's lost that trust to a lot 620 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,359 Speaker 1: of his members. That's why he's going, and ultimately why 621 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: he should go. When that trust is gone, you know, 622 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: you don't get it back, and so they're clearly going 623 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: to move on, however they decide to. Um. My experience 624 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: is he is one of the shrewdest, smartest operators I've 625 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: ever seen. Um. The last two times I was in London, 626 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: I had people who despise Borist Johnson, who would say, 627 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: and this was in February and in September, say, but 628 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: this guy is a winner. He always figures a way 629 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,879 Speaker 1: out and he essentially, did you know, until he ran 630 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 1: out of time, just needs to keep his shirt tails 631 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: in and stuff. Right, I mean, wouldn't I just he 632 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: what a character? You know? I asked the Ambassador this 633 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: earlier Dodge. You ever go to a good party with 634 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: Boris Johnson? I mean I have not been to a 635 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: good party with I've been to some receptions the embassy 636 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: here and so forth, but not what I would call 637 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: a good party or or anything like that. All above 638 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 1: board as right now. I would have expected nothing less 639 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 1: from Doug High, A straight shooter, Republican strategist, and back 640 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,919 Speaker 1: with us today on the panel with Jennie Chanzano. Thank 641 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: you both for the insights. We'll meet you back here 642 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,719 Speaker 1: tomorrow the Friday edition. To sound on this is Bloomberg