1
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,000
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and this is Annie, and you're

2
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:20,920
Speaker 1: listening the stuff mom never told you. Now today we

3
00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,840
Speaker 1: are revisiting the episode that Emily and I did all

4
00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,279
Speaker 1: around working daughters. If you don't know what a working

5
00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,080
Speaker 1: daughter is, a working daughter is an adult woman who

6
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,320
Speaker 1: has a job and also cares for a parent or

7
00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,280
Speaker 1: someone who is aging in her life. Um. Is that

8
00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,400
Speaker 1: a term that you've ever heard? No, but um totally

9
00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 1: makes sense to me. I have a lot of friends

10
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 1: and myself included, who have had to be a working daughter.

11
00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,879
Speaker 1: It's a lot of stress. Yes, it is a lot

12
00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,800
Speaker 1: of stress. And one of the reasons why I want

13
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,640
Speaker 1: to kind of revisit this episode is because some of

14
00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,080
Speaker 1: you have maybe gleaned from social media that I've been

15
00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,000
Speaker 1: a little bit away because I am dealing with a

16
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,320
Speaker 1: pretty intent hence family health issue that I alluded to

17
00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 1: in that episode and also others, and so I wanted

18
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,360
Speaker 1: to read up this episode one because I think it's

19
00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,120
Speaker 1: a critical conversation that many of us Annie included myself included,

20
00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,440
Speaker 1: UM I might find themselves dealing with one way or

21
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,640
Speaker 1: the other. Um too. I also just wanted to say

22
00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:20,759
Speaker 1: thank you. So many people have reached out to me

23
00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,679
Speaker 1: UM in the last couple of weeks and shared very

24
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,920
Speaker 1: kind words and it just means a lot to me.

25
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,760
Speaker 1: And I'm at someone who always, um, you know, is

26
00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,720
Speaker 1: good at talking about those kinds of things. It's even

27
00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,080
Speaker 1: though I'm a professional talker for a living, some things

28
00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,000
Speaker 1: are still very difficult to verbalize, UM, particularly when they're

29
00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,400
Speaker 1: emotional and hard, and so I'm no different. And so yeah,

30
00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,800
Speaker 1: I just wanted to thank you. The community has been

31
00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,200
Speaker 1: so nice and people have been so so gracious and

32
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,320
Speaker 1: I really, I mean, I can't tell you how good

33
00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:56,760
Speaker 1: it feels and how much I appreciate it. And I

34
00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,080
Speaker 1: know my dad would appreciate it too. So from the

35
00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:04,120
Speaker 1: bottom of my heart, thank you, Yes, thank you, um,

36
00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,560
Speaker 1: all of you. It's a very kind community, UM, and

37
00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:13,080
Speaker 1: it's very much appreciated. Bias, So thank you for being

38
00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,960
Speaker 1: nice to Bridges. Someone's gonna hear this and be like,

39
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:18,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to be mean to her. Just have mixed

40
00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:25,280
Speaker 1: it up, don't you do it contrary in But thank you.

41
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:32,960
Speaker 1: It does mean a lot. Today we wanted to kick

42
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,480
Speaker 1: off a new mini series all about role overload. We're

43
00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,440
Speaker 1: going to dive into what exactly role overload is in

44
00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:42,880
Speaker 1: just a second. But it is our take on the

45
00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,480
Speaker 1: work life balance conversation, if you will, even though I

46
00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,280
Speaker 1: don't love that term, but fine, insert I roll here,

47
00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,600
Speaker 1: because everybody knows that the whole work life balance conversation,

48
00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,919
Speaker 1: as much as I am obsessed with it, is inherently

49
00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,160
Speaker 1: flawed when you frame it that way. So instead, we're

50
00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,919
Speaker 1: going to talk about the many roles that women play

51
00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,400
Speaker 1: in society, at work, in our families, and how sometimes

52
00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:10,840
Speaker 1: those can be put at odds and can lead to

53
00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,320
Speaker 1: a lot of stress. Today, we're going to zoom in

54
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,680
Speaker 1: on and really focus on the role of working daughter

55
00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,320
Speaker 1: with a guest who I know you're gonna love to

56
00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,440
Speaker 1: hear from in just a little bit, who has studied

57
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,920
Speaker 1: this issue, who has lived this issue, and who's going

58
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,880
Speaker 1: to help us understand what it really means to be

59
00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,720
Speaker 1: a working daughter in today's world, and why we need

60
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,360
Speaker 1: so much more support and conversation for women, especially women

61
00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:40,280
Speaker 1: in their forties, who are juggling paid work, child rearing,

62
00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,080
Speaker 1: and elder care. Something I sound so fascinating about this

63
00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,880
Speaker 1: is that role overload. Really is this term to describe

64
00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,920
Speaker 1: this feeling of wearing many hats right where daughters where wives,

65
00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,760
Speaker 1: where mothers were employees, were sisters, were friends, were all

66
00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,080
Speaker 1: of these things. This is a lot, right, This is

67
00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,560
Speaker 1: a lot to juggle, and sometimes these things can actually

68
00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,240
Speaker 1: be in hump with with each other. And that's when

69
00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,040
Speaker 1: you have what we call role conflict. That's not just

70
00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,680
Speaker 1: juggling many things. You feel like you can't be a

71
00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,800
Speaker 1: good employee and also be a good daughter. You feel

72
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,480
Speaker 1: like you can't be a good mother and also be

73
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,480
Speaker 1: a good something else. It's a sense that all of

74
00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,760
Speaker 1: these roles and all of these hats that women find

75
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,200
Speaker 1: themselves wearing day to day are really not working well together. Yeah,

76
00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,240
Speaker 1: it feels like you're being pulled in every direction. And

77
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,600
Speaker 1: I think that's like the birthplace of guilt, right, This

78
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,039
Speaker 1: very social emotion of letting someone else down, or letting

79
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,520
Speaker 1: yourself down, not living up to the mom you knew

80
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,880
Speaker 1: you could be, or the great employee you could be.

81
00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,760
Speaker 1: It's like acknowledging that you're giving instead of can be

82
00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,040
Speaker 1: such a source of strife and guilt and stress for

83
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,560
Speaker 1: the women I work with especially. And I was just

84
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:48,680
Speaker 1: gonna say, at least in my mind, this is what

85
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,960
Speaker 1: causes burnout. Right, If you spend every waking moment feeling

86
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,239
Speaker 1: like you're letting someone down. So if you're kicking ass

87
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,760
Speaker 1: with your husband and you're not being a good employee,

88
00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,600
Speaker 1: if you're kicking ass with your parents and you're being

89
00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:01,680
Speaker 1: a great daughter, then you're letting your kid down. Right.

90
00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,240
Speaker 1: If you spend all day every day feeling like you're

91
00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,080
Speaker 1: letting somebody down, that you're dropping some ball in the

92
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,800
Speaker 1: equation from something somewhere, something is being left up and

93
00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:12,800
Speaker 1: it's your fault, like in a far away land. You

94
00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,120
Speaker 1: can just feel it's always nagging at you. That's what

95
00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,880
Speaker 1: burnout is. Yeah, I mean, it's it's a sense of

96
00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,479
Speaker 1: chronic stress. I mean, we could dive deeper into burnout,

97
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:23,920
Speaker 1: you know. I love that tomic. But but it's just

98
00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:29,200
Speaker 1: it's interesting that the roles that we as women have played,

99
00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,240
Speaker 1: especially in American society over the last hundred years, have shifted. Right, So,

100
00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,440
Speaker 1: these concepts of rolloverload and especially the stress inducing feeling

101
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,400
Speaker 1: of role conflict, they're relatively new in that if you

102
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,120
Speaker 1: think about when women first entered the workforce in mass

103
00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,760
Speaker 1: and yes, that was a very white, a very middle

104
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:52,080
Speaker 1: class resurgence. Because many women who weren't white and middle

105
00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,960
Speaker 1: class have been working for a lot longer. But post

106
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,240
Speaker 1: World War Two, women enter the workforce and mass for

107
00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 1: the first time. It's not like they're not also expected

108
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,920
Speaker 1: to have a great Thanksgiving dinner on the table to write, right,

109
00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,559
Speaker 1: It's not like our roles changed. We didn't become male

110
00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,719
Speaker 1: like the stereotypical male model of the gender role. Didn't

111
00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,040
Speaker 1: just flip a switch. It just was another layer added

112
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,599
Speaker 1: on to our expectation. Congratulations, ladies, welcome to the workforce.

113
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,240
Speaker 1: Enjoy your like added your compounded roles and obligations to society.

114
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,960
Speaker 1: And I think it is interesting how men's roles are

115
00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,960
Speaker 1: starting to change a lot more. Right, We've seen men

116
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,720
Speaker 1: do more around the house than ever before. We talked

117
00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,760
Speaker 1: to in our men missier than women about the numbers

118
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,400
Speaker 1: on cleanliness. Guess what the data is in men are

119
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 1: still less likely to be cleaning than the women in

120
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 1: their lives. But this feeling of role conflict is inherent

121
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,760
Speaker 1: to what the female role model has been and what

122
00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:52,680
Speaker 1: this idea of like what it means to be a

123
00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:57,200
Speaker 1: good woman in today's society, can leave women feeling this

124
00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,760
Speaker 1: sense of being in a double bind. Right, feeling guilt

125
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,120
Speaker 1: st again and worried about personal matters while at work

126
00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,720
Speaker 1: and worried about work stuff while you're at home, so

127
00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:06,440
Speaker 1: you never get a break. Really if you're if you're

128
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,159
Speaker 1: feeling guilty at work because you're dropping the ball at home,

129
00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:10,960
Speaker 1: and then when you're at home you're feeling guilty because

130
00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 1: you're dropping the ball at work. You're just feeling like

131
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,880
Speaker 1: crap all the time, never getting a break. It's almost

132
00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,680
Speaker 1: why I love my weird schedule right now, which is

133
00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,160
Speaker 1: like super concentrated work binges when I'm on the road,

134
00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,240
Speaker 1: and then I'm very chill when I'm at home and

135
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,800
Speaker 1: I'm much more present. I'm mindful about being present with

136
00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,960
Speaker 1: my partner. But when I go home for the holidays, y'all,

137
00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 1: this probably this could not have been a better timed episode,

138
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,360
Speaker 1: because buckle up, get ready for Thanksgiving, get ready for

139
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,920
Speaker 1: the holidays. At home, that is when I am statistically

140
00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,000
Speaker 1: most likely to cry out of feeling like a failure.

141
00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,760
Speaker 1: Because my family, first of all, there's a lot of them,

142
00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,280
Speaker 1: you know, the you know, the feel right feeling of

143
00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,400
Speaker 1: us if like without partners included, so there's more than

144
00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,280
Speaker 1: six of us around the table, and it always goes

145
00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:55,880
Speaker 1: like this, Emily, what am I going to get some

146
00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:57,800
Speaker 1: face time with you. I know you're a hot shot,

147
00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,200
Speaker 1: I know you're really important, blah blah blah, but when

148
00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,200
Speaker 1: are you gonna have time for dear old dad and

149
00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,840
Speaker 1: my dad? My dad will lay this guilt up on me,

150
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,240
Speaker 1: and I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna walk with mom because

151
00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna spend some time with her, and then like

152
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,280
Speaker 1: dad wants to go to the movies together, We're all

153
00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,280
Speaker 1: going to be together all the time. And God forbid

154
00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,440
Speaker 1: you should have to answer an email like in a

155
00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,320
Speaker 1: corner of the house alone for any minute at all.

156
00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:19,880
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm talking about? No, this is

157
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,960
Speaker 1: like I feel like you're speaking my language. My family,

158
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,560
Speaker 1: God love them, and they're all insane and they really

159
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,200
Speaker 1: like guilt is like a currency. I just it's really

160
00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 1: you know, I could talk all day, but I completely

161
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,679
Speaker 1: feel you, um, and I think it really is about

162
00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,920
Speaker 1: binding balance. What I like about your situation is that

163
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,240
Speaker 1: you've sort of if you look at your calendar month

164
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,160
Speaker 1: or something, it's like, these are my intense work times

165
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 1: where I'm very focused. These are my home times where

166
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,440
Speaker 1: I'm very chill. These are the times where I'm going

167
00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,720
Speaker 1: to be guilt stricken because it's Thanksgiving and I'm feeling

168
00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,160
Speaker 1: all kinds of feelings and I'm getting you know, but

169
00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,280
Speaker 1: at least it's not like a constant calendar year of guilt.

170
00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,040
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. At least you've got it like segmented.

171
00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,680
Speaker 1: I've I've become method al lot to goal about it

172
00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,400
Speaker 1: because that's who I am, as you know. So now

173
00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,800
Speaker 1: there's like a certain hours cap on how long Emily

174
00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,760
Speaker 1: can be at home with with the full family who

175
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,040
Speaker 1: I love. By the way, Hi, mom um, but it

176
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,040
Speaker 1: is you know, you have to know your boundaries. And

177
00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:20,240
Speaker 1: I think, honestly for me, being assertive, being unapologetic about

178
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,000
Speaker 1: my boundaries, standing up for myself much easier to do

179
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,840
Speaker 1: in a professional setting than in home in my relationship.

180
00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,000
Speaker 1: Well that's because your you know, your clients didn't give

181
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,880
Speaker 1: birth to you. I don't think, right, So it's like,

182
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,439
Speaker 1: you know you can. It's from how the from how

183
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,840
Speaker 1: the guilt is different. Yeah, it's like, well, these people

184
00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:37,199
Speaker 1: are paying me to do a job for them. I'm

185
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,640
Speaker 1: going to do the job and then set some boundaries

186
00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:41,960
Speaker 1: that make my ability to do that job more efficient.

187
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:43,360
Speaker 1: I know what I need to do to do a

188
00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:44,880
Speaker 1: great job for them. They want me to do a

189
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,600
Speaker 1: great job. It's a give and take with your family.

190
00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,680
Speaker 1: It's like all collapsed, right, and then it's got that

191
00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:55,640
Speaker 1: added layer of guilt because they had you, they raised trouble. Yeah,

192
00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,520
Speaker 1: the flip side of love, which is like guilt paid.

193
00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,080
Speaker 1: But you know, it turns out this this experience is

194
00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,960
Speaker 1: far from unique because in a recent study from m

195
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,600
Speaker 1: I t. S Working Family Institute in households with both

196
00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:15,760
Speaker 1: men and women working full time, women reported feeling preoccupied

197
00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,680
Speaker 1: and thinking about work thirty four percent of the time

198
00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,439
Speaker 1: while at home it's a lot, that's a kind of

199
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,320
Speaker 1: a lot, whereas men reported feeling that way only about

200
00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,640
Speaker 1: twenty percent of the time. So, surprise, surprise, women are

201
00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,000
Speaker 1: feeling a tighter squeeze when it comes to feeling guilty

202
00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,160
Speaker 1: when they're about work when they're at home. Yeah, And

203
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,360
Speaker 1: it's interesting because isn't a great percentage either, Like why

204
00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,120
Speaker 1: in this country? This is a very American centric study,

205
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:39,880
Speaker 1: by the way, and it feels like a very American

206
00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:45,600
Speaker 1: centric problem. Why is unplugging so rare? I think it's

207
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,720
Speaker 1: no surprising. I think it's part of it is because

208
00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:52,520
Speaker 1: we glorify, not unplugging. The research is pretty clear that

209
00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,680
Speaker 1: women tend to feel that extra pressure of staying hyper

210
00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,160
Speaker 1: vigilant on top of work, which doesn't surprise me. There

211
00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,920
Speaker 1: if you think about how women are chronically discriminated against

212
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,120
Speaker 1: in the workplace, right in a world that doesn't even

213
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,560
Speaker 1: pay women equally for equal work, in a world that

214
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,800
Speaker 1: passes over women for promotions, it doesn't surprise me that

215
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,960
Speaker 1: when women are at home and are technically not working,

216
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,480
Speaker 1: that we are still more preoccupied with work. What I

217
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:22,040
Speaker 1: found fascinating, and this isn't the world of organizational psychology

218
00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,880
Speaker 1: where these terms like roll conflict and roll overload come from.

219
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,000
Speaker 1: Is this spillover effect. That feeling of being stressed out

220
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,680
Speaker 1: about one part of your life while trying to focus

221
00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:36,640
Speaker 1: on another is even more prominent for men when it

222
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,320
Speaker 1: comes to the opposite direction. So women are more likely

223
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,560
Speaker 1: to be preoccupied about work when they're at home. Men,

224
00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,800
Speaker 1: if they have a conflict in their personal lives, if

225
00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,200
Speaker 1: they had a fight with their partner, if they are

226
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,280
Speaker 1: experiencing some kind of personal stress, men are much more

227
00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,120
Speaker 1: likely to experience that spillover of stress while trying to

228
00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,920
Speaker 1: be at work. See that doesn't surprise me at all.

229
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,720
Speaker 1: And here's why. So this is completely my anecdotal opinion

230
00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,960
Speaker 1: things I've seen. I feel like women are socialized a

231
00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,080
Speaker 1: lot more to do a lot of emotional self reflection,

232
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,280
Speaker 1: and so if I have a big fight with my mom,

233
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,280
Speaker 1: it's just in my nature to talk to a friend

234
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,520
Speaker 1: about it, to spend time thinking about it, you know,

235
00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,960
Speaker 1: processing it. I feel like men are not socialized to

236
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,120
Speaker 1: do that, right. The idea of women getting together with

237
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,320
Speaker 1: their girlfriends and talking about boyfriend trouble, husband trouble, whatever,

238
00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,480
Speaker 1: that's a common thing in their culture. Men not so much.

239
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,760
Speaker 1: And so I feel like it's that, at least in

240
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,080
Speaker 1: my opinion. I think it's that attitude that women have

241
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,319
Speaker 1: other outlets to process and deal with personal stressors, that

242
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,800
Speaker 1: they're not bringing it into the office. Also added to

243
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,679
Speaker 1: that is that the idea that women, you know, if

244
00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:43,520
Speaker 1: you if you have a bad day with your husband

245
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,439
Speaker 1: and come into the office upset, we have that added

246
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,040
Speaker 1: stereotype of being like, oh, she's emotional, she's crazy, blah

247
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,920
Speaker 1: blah blah. I feel like all of these ways that

248
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,160
Speaker 1: were socialized differently as men and women. That's why that

249
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,920
Speaker 1: explains why men are more likely to bring their personal

250
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,719
Speaker 1: stress into the office because they're not socialized to have

251
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,360
Speaker 1: an have an outlet talk to your friends, like be

252
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,480
Speaker 1: like spend some time processing. You know, women, that's all

253
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,920
Speaker 1: over taught. You know you're taught that. Like yeah, when

254
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,439
Speaker 1: a guy sends you a text, the joke is like, oh,

255
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,800
Speaker 1: you're like analyzing it with your girlfriends for an hour, right,

256
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,960
Speaker 1: Like that is what you're taught. I feel like I

257
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,320
Speaker 1: love this piece of data though, because it flies in

258
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,920
Speaker 1: the face of that sort of commonly repeated stereotype of

259
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,960
Speaker 1: men are somehow better at compartmentalizing. It's not that simple.

260
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,520
Speaker 1: It's just not that simple. I think the idea that

261
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,960
Speaker 1: we all experience some kind of spillover of stress between

262
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,920
Speaker 1: the roles that we play is an important baseline to acknowledge.

263
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,320
Speaker 1: The other thing that this research really pushes back on

264
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:44,800
Speaker 1: is this idea that role overload means women should just

265
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,080
Speaker 1: stop working, right because someone might look at this data

266
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,600
Speaker 1: and say, well, if you're trying to be everything to

267
00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,079
Speaker 1: everyone and that's causing role conflict, women should just get

268
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,760
Speaker 1: back in the kitchen, you know, check out of the office,

269
00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,719
Speaker 1: like because we all are or like want to be

270
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,840
Speaker 1: not working either or right there are literally there are

271
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,640
Speaker 1: parts of the internet that are like poor women, like

272
00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,080
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be forced to work anymore, Take a load off,

273
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,520
Speaker 1: get back in the kitchen, get back to child wearing,

274
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,640
Speaker 1: that sort of most benevolent version of sexism. And the

275
00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,320
Speaker 1: research actually shows that working women, working mothers in particular,

276
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,320
Speaker 1: are more likely to have higher rates of happiness than

277
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,200
Speaker 1: women who don't work at all. I believe that's so easily.

278
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,120
Speaker 1: I mean, my mom is a doctor and she's the best.

279
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,720
Speaker 1: But when I was growing up, I would often look

280
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,320
Speaker 1: at my classmates who had stay at home moms, and

281
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:34,880
Speaker 1: I was a little like envious and be like, oh,

282
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,400
Speaker 1: they always have baller, you know, lunches packed for them,

283
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,120
Speaker 1: and like all these all those little things that you

284
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,080
Speaker 1: notice as a kid, and you know, shout out to

285
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 1: stay at home moms. Nothing wrong with that at all.

286
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,760
Speaker 1: But I know that I know my mom. She would

287
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,160
Speaker 1: be miserable as as I stay at home mom. I

288
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,920
Speaker 1: know her. She would be twitching. She would be turning

289
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,120
Speaker 1: the lives of her children into her job and a

290
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,560
Speaker 1: kind in a way that's not healthy. She needs that outlet.

291
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,680
Speaker 1: That's part of her identity as a woman, that's part

292
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,560
Speaker 1: of who she is, and so I look at someone

293
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,880
Speaker 1: like my mom who would be so miserable as a

294
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:05,880
Speaker 1: stay at home mom. And so this idea that oh,

295
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,320
Speaker 1: all of your problems will evaporate if you just stopped working,

296
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 1: that advice clearly doesn't work for everybody exactly. And so

297
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,160
Speaker 1: in this series, we really want to look at role

298
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:20,080
Speaker 1: overload in terms of, Okay, when is it that tipping

299
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,960
Speaker 1: point moment? Because the many rules that we wear are

300
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,800
Speaker 1: often core to our identities. Just like you were saying,

301
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,720
Speaker 1: you know, I recently attended a friend's wedding and hearing

302
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,320
Speaker 1: the people who were giving speeches say, you know, I

303
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:36,160
Speaker 1: know this person from their role in the community theater,

304
00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,280
Speaker 1: their role running for local office, their role as a campaigner,

305
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 1: their role as a professional. You know, the many different

306
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,120
Speaker 1: outlets and identifiers and activities that these two folks do

307
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,680
Speaker 1: that makes them such an amazing couple. That's core to

308
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,720
Speaker 1: who they are as individuals. But what is that tipping

309
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 1: point into the role overload domain? At which point society

310
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,160
Speaker 1: makes it really freaking hard for you to be able

311
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,960
Speaker 1: to achieve your full potential at work? And the first

312
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,640
Speaker 1: in this series that we really want to dive into

313
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,680
Speaker 1: is often missed completely. I mean it's almost invisible. It's

314
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,480
Speaker 1: completely invisible, because we hear a lot about working mothers,

315
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,880
Speaker 1: but what we hear less about is working daughters. And

316
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,880
Speaker 1: after this quick break, we're going to hear from my friend,

317
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 1: author Liz O'Donnell, who's going to shed light on what

318
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,000
Speaker 1: it looks like to be a working daughter in America today.

319
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,400
Speaker 1: And we're back and we are so excited to dive

320
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,840
Speaker 1: into this topic of what it really means to be

321
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:43,960
Speaker 1: a working daughter. Now. Bringing some expertise on this issue

322
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:49,080
Speaker 1: is my friend, author, speaker, and award winning blogger Liz O'Donnell.

323
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,560
Speaker 1: Liz is the author of her book Mogul Mom and

324
00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,600
Speaker 1: Made the Balancing Act of the Modern Woman, and she

325
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,800
Speaker 1: is a recognized expert on balancing elder care and a career.

326
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,600
Speaker 1: She's written about these issues in The Atlantic, Time, Next

327
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,359
Speaker 1: Avenue USA. Today, she's been interviewed by w n y

328
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,119
Speaker 1: C our pals over at w n y C and

329
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,440
Speaker 1: a lot of other fabulous radio shows and podcasts now

330
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,360
Speaker 1: including Stuff Mom Never Told You. Liz, We're so glad

331
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 1: you could join us today, Thanks so much for having

332
00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,320
Speaker 1: the Emily, So tell us what does working daughters that

333
00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,879
Speaker 1: term really mean to you, Well, to me, it means

334
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,320
Speaker 1: women who are balancing elder care and career. It occurred

335
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,040
Speaker 1: to me when I was out promoting my book about

336
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 1: working mothers, and I had this like one heck of

337
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,600
Speaker 1: a day that started at six and ended at eleven,

338
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,199
Speaker 1: and in between it took my mother to the doctor

339
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,679
Speaker 1: and to get medication and help my dad driving home

340
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,360
Speaker 1: at eleven o'clock that night. I'm like, Okay, working mothers, yep,

341
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 1: that's that's an issue when we need to deal with it.

342
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,320
Speaker 1: But working daughters are out there too, and nobody's talking

343
00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,520
Speaker 1: about them. Yeah, working daughters, right. So many of us,

344
00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,080
Speaker 1: I think, immediately identify like, yeah, I'm a working daughter,

345
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,320
Speaker 1: But it doesn't necessarily become a huge role that we

346
00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,800
Speaker 1: are identifying with until our parents get a little older exactly. Liz,

347
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,480
Speaker 1: I'm curious, can you describe a bit about the extra

348
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,320
Speaker 1: burden that these working daughter's space when they're when they're

349
00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,560
Speaker 1: sort of juggling all these different roles and in the

350
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,960
Speaker 1: workplace and with their family obligations. What does that look like?

351
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,639
Speaker 1: What does it look like to be a working daughter? Well,

352
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,840
Speaker 1: the typical family caregiver is a woman in her mitchellate forties,

353
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,320
Speaker 1: and she's got at least one parent who's UM sixty

354
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,840
Speaker 1: five or older. She's got at least one kid at

355
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,359
Speaker 1: home eighteen or younger. She works, and UM probably spend

356
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,760
Speaker 1: they say, an average of twenty hours a week on

357
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,399
Speaker 1: elder care too. So I mean, you know, there's the

358
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,199
Speaker 1: fact that she has three jobs, if you will, right,

359
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,879
Speaker 1: she has a paid job, she has the parenting job,

360
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,680
Speaker 1: and then she has the elder care job. And UM.

361
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 1: And the fact that this is hitting so many women

362
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,960
Speaker 1: at the time. It as like forties, early fifties, you know,

363
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,159
Speaker 1: that's that's when we're in our final push on our

364
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 1: peak earning years. UM, that's when we run. The risk

365
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,679
Speaker 1: is that if we leave work and we try to

366
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 1: come back, chances are really good or bad, I should say,

367
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,439
Speaker 1: right that we're going to be rehired. So there's a

368
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,520
Speaker 1: lot of fear and pressure to make all of those

369
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,199
Speaker 1: rules work at once. UM. And these are women who

370
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:25,640
Speaker 1: they're not just driving their parents to the doctors. They're

371
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,680
Speaker 1: they're administering meds, They're doing lots of medical tasks. They're

372
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,720
Speaker 1: doing you know, wound care and injections and changing feeding tubes,

373
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,959
Speaker 1: and I mean, it's stuff for you. You kind of

374
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,679
Speaker 1: like to think that the medical industry is handling this stuff,

375
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,160
Speaker 1: but you've got family members who are handling this stuff. Well.

376
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 1: That was one of the things I've found so fascinating

377
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,680
Speaker 1: in your article for The Atlantic called the Crisis facing

378
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,120
Speaker 1: America's Working Daughters, is that when it comes to being

379
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,679
Speaker 1: a parent, there's no kind of shifting of understanding of

380
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 1: roles when it comes to childcare responsibilities. Because when you

381
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 1: have a kid, you understand that you are a parent

382
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 1: that's going to involve, you know, giving medicine, changing diapers

383
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,879
Speaker 1: and all of that. But when you're talking about being

384
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 1: a working daughter and taking care of, you know what,

385
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 1: an aging parent, no one really talks about what that

386
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 1: actually looks like. Changing diapers, administering medicine, giving shots, wound care,

387
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 1: things that can be kind of heavy and emotional. There's

388
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 1: no sort of corresponding emotional weight associated with doing those

389
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 1: things for a child. Yet here we are not talking

390
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 1: about that extra sort of layer of of heaviness and

391
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:33,159
Speaker 1: emotions when it comes to that that very real role reversal. Yeah, right,

392
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 1: talk about stuff mom never told you, right, Yeah, Seriously,

393
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,760
Speaker 1: it's such a psychological moment when you have to recognize

394
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,159
Speaker 1: that your parents, who you turn to and rely on

395
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 1: for support, emotional and otherwise, are now not in a

396
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 1: position to support you, but beyond that, are in need

397
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 1: of your support and return. So you write about the

398
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 1: sort of added psychological stress that can come with navigating

399
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 1: a role transition like that. Can you tell us about

400
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 1: how that was presented in your life? While while you

401
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: were starting to tackle these issues in the public domain,

402
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: this became very personal for you, didn't it. Yeah, it

403
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,920
Speaker 1: really did. I was I mean. And so what happens

404
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,879
Speaker 1: to so many caregivers that happened to me is what

405
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: they call the caregiver creeps. So your parents start to age,

406
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 1: you may be the adult child who lives near them

407
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,199
Speaker 1: or for whatever reason you know, takes on some responsibility

408
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,959
Speaker 1: and so you start with, you know, maybe mowing their

409
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: lawn or helping them around the house, saying the doctor,

410
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 1: doing the grocery shopping, and so it creeps up on

411
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 1: you until you don't realize that you are the caregiver.

412
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 1: And then for me, um, both of my parents got

413
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 1: sick at the same time, so they were actually both

414
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 1: diagnosed with terminal illnesses on the same day. I went

415
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: from one hospital and heard Alzheimer's, and then to the

416
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: next hospital and they said stage four ovarian cancer. So

417
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 1: my my story is a little crazy. But yeah, all

418
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,959
Speaker 1: of a sudden you're in it, and you don't know

419
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 1: that your friends are in it. I mean, one of

420
00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: the things that was really interesting to me is I

421
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: had of a friend, um, who I know through parenting.

422
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,200
Speaker 1: You know, we both wrote blogs, we're both in the

423
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 1: Listen to Your Mother's show, which gives voice to mother's experiences.

424
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,400
Speaker 1: Had no idea that we also had this daughterhood connection

425
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: until later when we started talking about it. You just

426
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,959
Speaker 1: don't know that other people are in it with you

427
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: because it's not a really fun thing to talk about.

428
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: You're talking about disease, you're talking about dying, and these

429
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: are things that you know, respectable people don't talk about

430
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: out in public. So that's a big part of it.

431
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 1: The other part of it is, you know, they talk

432
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 1: about a role reversal where you go from being the

433
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,280
Speaker 1: daughter and it's your parents that you look to to

434
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: sort of provide all kinds of support to you, mostly

435
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 1: you know, emotional and just being the grown up, right,

436
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden you're the grown up,

437
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: and that's that's a big reversal that you have to navigate.

438
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 1: And at the same time, if you're doing it well anyway,

439
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: you're being respectful of your parents autonomy. So it's not

440
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: like you know a baby who you say, well, you

441
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 1: don't even have to say, you just show up at

442
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: Dickcare and drop them off after you vedisms because but

443
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 1: if you're not gonna have a conversation with a three

444
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 1: months old though I'm going back to work and you're

445
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: going to be at this place, do you like it?

446
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 1: But you have to have that conversation with the parents.

447
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 1: They're adults and they need to have some economy and choice. Yeah.

448
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 1: Something that that struck me in the story that you

449
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: were just telling about your own experiences is bonding with

450
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: other people who are in that same situation. How important

451
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: would you say it's been for you to have a

452
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: community of folks going through the same situation in terms

453
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 1: of dealing with this. Is that something that is kind

454
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: of helped ease the burden of this a bit or

455
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: just having someone who you know is going through that

456
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: same experience. Is that something that folks should seek out

457
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: if they are struggling with elder care and balancing all

458
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: these roles. Yeah, I think it's huge, um. And that's

459
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 1: part of the reason I started the website Working Daughter,

460
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: and I care a lot about labeling things right because

461
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 1: if labels like working daughter or family caregiver, they give

462
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: you a vocabulary. Vocabulary leads to dialogue. And I think

463
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: it's so important that we you know, we don't go

464
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,360
Speaker 1: through this alone. It's um not a team sport right now,

465
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: the way that we handle it, but I think it

466
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: really should be. I mean, you know, just like parenting,

467
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: it takes a village, um. But if you're not talking

468
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: about it, if other people aren't talking about it, you

469
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: don't know where to go to get that support and

470
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,360
Speaker 1: that structure that you need. I run a private Facebook

471
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 1: group and they're about five hundred and fifty women in there, UM,

472
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 1: and it is just amazing. You know, some days are

473
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: busier than others, so you don't look at the group

474
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,159
Speaker 1: and you come home late and and you see the

475
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 1: conversations that these women and there are men in there too,

476
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: are having, and the way that they validate each other's experiences,

477
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 1: share so generously their own experiences and advice. It's just

478
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: kind of phenomenal, and I mean, of course we need that.

479
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that's so valuable

480
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: in there is there are so many stigmas around um

481
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: caregiving and the feelings that you have UM. You know,

482
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: you can be really resisting the day that you're no

483
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 1: longer going to have a parent, but also wondering when

484
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 1: you caregiving years are going to be over. You know,

485
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: so these these two can be happening at once, and

486
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: it can sound awful that you know, you're supposed to

487
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: be this loving daughter. You're not supposed to be thinking

488
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: when is this going to end? Because you know what

489
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: the end looks like, but it's very real. I mean,

490
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: there's so there are these thoughts that we have that

491
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: maybe the general population or people who haven't been through

492
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: it might think or you know, scandalous, but we know

493
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: that's just a natural part of caregiving. And so you

494
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: have to have space to have that conversation. And it's

495
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,719
Speaker 1: amazing to me that there are so few spaces and

496
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: communities where folks who are really primary caregivers for elders

497
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: can find that kind of camaraderie in a country where

498
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: there are forty four million estimated forty four million unpaid

499
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 1: elder care providers, and we know that the majority of

500
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 1: those folks are women. So how does that break down? Like,

501
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: why do you think this is especially salient for women

502
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: who we know still shoulder the majority of housework and

503
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: childcare duties. You know, what does this look like when

504
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: it comes to impacting women's earnings because the majority of

505
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 1: elder here seems to fall on women's shoulders as well. Well.

506
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: I think that is part of the reason it feels

507
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: like early days around the conversation. I mean, there are

508
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: lots of great caregiving in general resources out there. My

509
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: own experience of many of them was that they assumed

510
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: sort of a lead it to beaver um, you know,

511
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: family dynamic and lifestyle, and that we all went into this, um,

512
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: you know what a gift? Isn't this wonderful? What a blessing?

513
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: And it doesn't always feel like that, especially when you're

514
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: working full time, you have kids and you know you're

515
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: going out of your mind. It doesn't always feel like

516
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: a blessing. Um. But there wasn't a lot that I

517
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: found a practical advice for this, this working daughter, and

518
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure that just speaks to you, know, how long

519
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: women have been at work and how long has been

520
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,719
Speaker 1: primary bread letters and all that good stuff. But the

521
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: earned impact is you know, it's really important that we

522
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: think about this because you know, I mentioned that the

523
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 1: average caregiver is a woman in her forties, so you

524
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: really run a great risk if you leave the workforce

525
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: about re entering. You also are probably experiencing this and

526
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: found effect. You know, so you may have already been

527
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 1: affected at work by working motherhood. You know, that could

528
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: mean have you've been mommy tracked or passed over for

529
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: plumb opportunities. You might be you know, lingering in middle

530
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: management for the rest of your days, um, probably making

531
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: less on the dollar than your male peers. Alright, so

532
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: all the things we know women experienced as the result

533
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: of being mothers in the workplace, and now all of

534
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: a sudden you're vulnerable again at a really critical age

535
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: and time in your career, and once again you need flexibility,

536
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: once again, you need paid time off. Once again you

537
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: could be passing up opportunities for plumb assignments. And it

538
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: feels really stressful that you're going to be able to

539
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: hang on to that career at a time when it's

540
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: so critical to hang onto your career and if you don't,

541
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: you know, they estimate that women lose around three hundred

542
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in lifetime earnings wages. It benefits as a

543
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: result of eldercare. We're going to live longer than men,

544
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 1: We're going to have to fund the longer retirement. So

545
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just simple math that we need to

546
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: keep women at work exactly exactly. I mean, I couldn't

547
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: agree more. Um, So, you mentioned that the average caregiver

548
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: is a woman in her forties, but you also mentioned

549
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: that you actually have men in your Facebook group to

550
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: deal with elder care solutions. I'm wondering, like, we know

551
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: that men also help out with Asian parents. What does

552
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: it look like for men and how is it different

553
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: than what it looks like for women a lot of times? Yeah,

554
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,199
Speaker 1: I mean the statistics, The average statistic I see is

555
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: that caregivers are a men. I've seen as low as twenty,

556
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: but I think it's safe to assume around forty because

557
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: it's rapidly growing. There are ten thousand people during sixty

558
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: five every day, so, um, you know we need all

559
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: hands on deck in coming years. So if if men

560
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: aren't caregivers, now you know, really good chance that they

561
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: will be soon. Um. I think the challenge, I think

562
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: the conversation is very similar what you see with parents,

563
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: right with the working mothers and working fathers were seeing

564
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: more conversations in recent years about fatherhood and millennial men

565
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: on it to be more hands on and have that flexibility.

566
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, similar challenges around elder care.

567
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: For the women, those challenges are the compound effect that

568
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: I just talked about. You know, you're squeezed the beginning

569
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: of your career, you're squeezed again later. Potentially you're those

570
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: vulnerable positions. Um. You know, you may be making less

571
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: on the dollar, you may be needing to stay more, etcetera, etcetera.

572
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: I think the good thing for women and it's the

573
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: same for working mothers as we have the conversations and

574
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: we have the vocabulary and the space to be flexible

575
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: and to talk about the impact for men sort of

576
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: the same thing. I think they may not have the

577
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: other um crunches on their career as a result of

578
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: being men in the workplace, but they may also not

579
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: have the same sort of safety and um that's the

580
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: word I'm looking for permission right to talk about the

581
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: stresses of balancing work and family, so there's that for them. Yeah,

582
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,719
Speaker 1: I also wonder if the workplace perception is different. You know,

583
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: we talked in an episode called The Mommy Tack about

584
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: how women leaving the office to go take care of

585
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: children are seen as less committed, are assumed to be

586
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: less engaged in the office, even though mothers working mothers

587
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: are shown to be some of the most efficient workers

588
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: in the entire workforce, whereas working fathers who leave for

589
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: the baseball game are seen as like charming, sweet, caring people.

590
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: And I would just wonder, you know they're there. It

591
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: does seem like this has more silence and shame around it,

592
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: because no one's bragging about going to pick up your mom,

593
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: you know, at the home to take her for a stroll.

594
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: Like it feels like a very hush hush uh workplace conversation.

595
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: And I just wonder if men feel that same kind

596
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: of penalty that women do. Um. Clearly there needs to

597
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: be more research to really get to the bottom of that,

598
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: But I don't know, do you feel like men in

599
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: the office might be perceived differently for leaving to go

600
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,239
Speaker 1: care for an elder than women? Are you? Personally? I

601
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: haven't encountered a ton of men who are in the

602
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: workplace who we're dealing with this, um, But certainly you

603
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: know you you all, and this is anecdotal, this is

604
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: not research based. But right, I mean, it's the same

605
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: thing that you were saying. There's always the what a

606
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: great guy at a boy or the men who step

607
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: up to do family work right versus the woman who

608
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: is just expected to do it and makes us crazy. Right. UM.

609
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: I was at a panel discussion about a year ago

610
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: here in the Boston area. UM. Maybe ten people on

611
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: the panel, top doctors from some of the great hospitals here,

612
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: or top insurance company executives, top senior living executives. I

613
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: heard the word daughter seven times. I never heard the

614
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: words son. So I think that's the other thing. Even

615
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: if we are looking at a sixty gendered split among

616
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: family caregivers, the expectation is still that we will be

617
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: those good, doting daughters and that it's going to be

618
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: the woman. We're gonna take a quick break, but when

619
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: we come back, we want to dive into what companies

620
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: and what the United States can do to make this stress,

621
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 1: to make this pressure for working daughters a little less stressful.

622
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. After a quick word from our sponsors.

623
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: We are back with speaker, author and working daughter Liz O'Donnell,

624
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: talking all about the double pressure that women with aging

625
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: parents and who are primary caretakers for those aging parents face,

626
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: especially in those key income earning years in our forties,

627
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: when we might also have children still under our roofs

628
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: who need our care as well. Liz, thanks so much

629
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: for joining us for today's conversation. Thank you. I'm so

630
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: glad we're having the conversation. So as we've talked a

631
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: lot about what this problem looks like and how it

632
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: can impact men and women. But I'm curious sort of

633
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: what's being done or maybe what's not being done to

634
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: kind of address this. Yeah, I mean I would say

635
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: not enough, not enough, it's being done. Um, I would

636
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: say I'm encouraged by the conversation. We are hearing more

637
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: about elder care UM in the workplace, and elder care

638
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: is an issue. So that's good news, that's progress. Um.

639
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's still just a clause in a sentence. You know,

640
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: American workers needs you know, maternity leaving, maternity leave and

641
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: paid leave. You know they're squeezed by take care of

642
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: children comma and their aging parents Comma. And that's all

643
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: we're getting. But it's more than nothing, right, um, And

644
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: so what I really think, you know, we need to

645
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: label this issue, We need to have a national dialogue

646
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: around it, and from the work perspective, really make sure

647
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: that we're not just talking about the challenges employees who

648
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: are parents, but we're talking about employees with parents. I mean,

649
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: if you look at the I think the number of

650
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: working mothers in the United States is what twenty three

651
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: or twenty five million is the estimate. The number of

652
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: working daughters is around twenty one million the estimate. So

653
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: you know, why aren't we solving for both? So not

654
00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: just talking about apparently talking about family, if not just

655
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: talking about affordable child care, but talking about affordable elder care.

656
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: You know, not just talking about um mother's ramping back

657
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: into the workplace, but what are the re entry programs

658
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: for a woman who leaves at four year fifty? So

659
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: that's that I think from a workplace is what needs

660
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: to happen. Well, that's exactly why I found it so surprising.

661
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: One of the things that you point out on your

662
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: Atlantic piece is that the mayor of New York build

663
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: de Blasio signed an order giving city employees six weeks

664
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: of fully paid leave, which is great, right like paray

665
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: kudos for him, But that leave only applies to the

666
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,959
Speaker 1: birth of a child or the adoption of a child,

667
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 1: not for taking care of a sick family member. So

668
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: it seems like this is just being left out of

669
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: the equation that we're talking about family leave and family care,

670
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: which is awesome, but elder care and caring for a

671
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: parent is just being left out of that equation and

672
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: just sort of as being raised. Yeah, it's been made invisible,

673
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: and it seems like such an opportunity for the Democratic Party.

674
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: Quite frankly, I'm surprised that this isn't more of a

675
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 1: issue that's been taken up by progressive voices who want

676
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: to stand up for working class people, because this is

677
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: clearly an economic barrier. You know, we know that medical

678
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 1: expenses are the number one reason for bankruptcy, and if

679
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: we want to look holistically at what the challenges are

680
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: that face the American working people, you know, we need

681
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: some leadership, at least from some wing of some party

682
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: to really make elder care an issue, because we're not

683
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: going to have an option very soon? Are we the

684
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: aging baby boomer generation is I think the great anxiety

685
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: of the millennial generation. So how long can we avoid

686
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 1: the inevitable? You know, so depressed? You know, before the

687
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: presidential election started, I was really hopeful that it would

688
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: be a key issue because you know, Obama ronne like

689
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 1: motherhood and working mother. It felt like that was every

690
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: other word out of their mouth, and I was like, okay,

691
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: so going into you know, we can hopefully have the

692
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: candidates talking about elder care. What a great opportunity to

693
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 1: shine at light. But then, of course, you know that election, Yeah,

694
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: we're like all grumbling and mumbling under our breaths with

695
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: you totally different than anyone expected. So there was no opportunity,

696
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 1: such a missed opportunity for a lot of things. But

697
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: I would really disappointed around that. And then, you know,

698
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: we're spending so much time I think, just you know,

699
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 1: defending and worrying about what's going to happen to Social Security, Medicare,

700
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: and Medicaid, that we're not spending enough time, um focused

701
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: on what progress we can make. But still that doesn't

702
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: mean that legislators at the you know, regional local levels

703
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing more, I think it's a huge opportunity

704
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: for someone to step forward and be a leader around

705
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I was just gonna say that. You know,

706
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: even though it seems like at the federal level or

707
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: the national level, perhaps we're not getting the traction that

708
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: we had hoped on this issue, there's always, always, always

709
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: opportunities at the local and hyperlocal level and state level,

710
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: And so even if it seems like nationally the dialogue

711
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: is not happening, I think that you can really push

712
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: your local lawmakers and local representatives to start making this

713
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 1: an issue, particularly since it seems like a lot of

714
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: their constituents are probably dealing with it. Yeah, and I

715
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: think that, you know, the big obstacle there and for

716
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,760
Speaker 1: whatever reason, as you said, this debate an invisible issue,

717
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 1: and it's it's sort of like an invisible um demographic, right.

718
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: So the more we can raise awareness that this exists,

719
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 1: the more we can talk about supporting families and thinking

720
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: about the families who you know, extend multigeneration, who are

721
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,760
Speaker 1: carrying up, not just down, only going to help. Yeah,

722
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: And what's interesting to me is that if you look

723
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 1: at the migration of older Americans, there's been a big

724
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: exodus last I checked. Last I looked into this of

725
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: older Americans moving to states with low property taxes. Right.

726
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: I think Florida has always been a bashed in for

727
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 1: the elderly, but so is the Southwest right now, most

728
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: of whom are led by Republicans. So I just I

729
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: find it interesting that this is an issue that is

730
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: wide open for either party to take up and to

731
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: make solutions possible on I was impressed and intrigued by

732
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: the fact that paid maternity leave, not parental leave, made

733
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: it to the Republican platform this past election cycle. Maybe

734
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: in name only, but um, but it really does seem

735
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: like these older folks are also the most reliable voters

736
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: in the whole country. So someone if if they are, like,

737
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: if we have a politician listening who wants to pander

738
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 1: to a reliable demographic, like, figure out how we can

739
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: take care of aging Americans, because it seems like an

740
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: issue that's just ready to be made mainstream whether we

741
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: like it or not. We're gonna have to find ways

742
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: to talk about this. Yeah, excellent point. I mean, and

743
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: what's it's hard is, you know, we're going to need

744
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: the caregivers themselves right to um to band together to

745
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: advocate as a group, and I mean they're already carrying

746
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: such a huge burden. I mean they truly are dealing

747
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: with labor death situations every day. But um, it's the

748
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: the recently former caregivers like me, hopefully who can make

749
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,959
Speaker 1: a difference for the ones who are still coming through.

750
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: I have one more question for you, Liz, how about

751
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: paid caregivers. You know I I'm the daughter of a nurse,

752
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: so I'm always thinking about how underpaid caregiving work is

753
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,919
Speaker 1: in the labor market too. You've written that that this

754
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: issue of being a working daughter is not something you

755
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 1: can really and truly outsource. It's not something that you

756
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: can finance your way out of. And so it's an

757
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: issue that doesn't just impact certain classes of Americans, it

758
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: really impacts all of us. Can you unpack that for

759
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 1: us and sort of explain what you mean by that? Yeah. Well,

760
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 1: part of the reason that it is hard, even if

761
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 1: you know you've got all the privilege in the world

762
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: to throw money as this problem is because you are

763
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 1: dealing with an adults and who does have autonomy and

764
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: say so, Um, it's not just the caregiver who has

765
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 1: to be on board, right, it's the parents that you're

766
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: caring for. OW has to be on work with whatever

767
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: solution that you want to provide for them. But the

768
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 1: other problem that you started, um the question with I'm

769
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: so glad you brought up, is the state of paid caregiving.

770
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,879
Speaker 1: And you know, the National Domestic Workers Alliance is doing

771
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: such great and important work around this. Paid caregivers, you know,

772
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: are are often excluded from workplace protections, UM like minimum

773
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: wage and paid time off and UM some states have

774
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: enacted a domestic Workers Bill of Rights, but we need

775
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,879
Speaker 1: all states to do that because you know, it's sort

776
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: of like the dialogue around teachers and childcare. These are

777
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: the people who are doing such important work. They're taking

778
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: care of our families. They're taking care of people at

779
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: their most vulnerable moments, and we're paying them nothing and

780
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: they're working several jobs and they go home and have

781
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 1: to care for their own families. So right there, I mean,

782
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: I think that's the one of the most important things

783
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: that we can lean on our legislators to look at.

784
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: So where can folks find out more about the work

785
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: that you're doing and more resources on this subject? Uh?

786
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: Working Daughter dot Com is my website and on my

787
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: community for other working daughters and sons are welcome to.

788
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: UM that's the best place. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Liz.

789
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: It has been truly a pleasure getting to know you

790
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 1: these past a few years and watching you focus in

791
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: on this subject that needs so much more attention. So

792
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: thank you for being a pioneer and for sharing some

793
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: of what stuff mom never told us with us today. Well,

794
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,760
Speaker 1: thank you both. I appreciate it. So this is actually

795
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 1: a topic that is very very close to my heart. UM.

796
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: I think I've mentioned on the show on and off

797
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: a couple of times that my dad has a chronic illness. Um,

798
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: if you know me, you know that my dad is

799
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: basically my hero. Anything good about me and my life,

800
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: who I am basically comes from him. And so we're

801
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 1: very very close, and probably not a day goes by

802
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: that I don't think about what his life is going

803
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: to look like down the line, and what it's going

804
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 1: to look like for our family down the line. I

805
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: think when you're young, it's not something that you think about,

806
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: Like when I was in my twenties, I never thought

807
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: about what my dad's end of life situation would look like.

808
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: And he's not anywhere near that. I don't think he's

809
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: if you met him, he's the most energetic, spry, life

810
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 1: living as person you've ever met. So don't you know,

811
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: don't get the wrong idea, but once I think a

812
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: family member becomes chronically ill, it like hits you, right,

813
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: It hits you how short life is, and that as

814
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: a child, you will probably have to have some role

815
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: in this. And that was something that had never occurred

816
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: to me when I was, you know, in high school

817
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 1: in my twenties. It wasn't until I found out that

818
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: my dad was sick that this was even the thing

819
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: on my radar. Did it impact like your life directly?

820
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: Do you feel like it's impacted the way you make choices? Yes,

821
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: I never want to be too far away from where

822
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 1: my parents live because if something happens and I want

823
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: to go back right away, I want to be able

824
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 1: to get there. And I mean, I'm not even someone

825
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: who visits as much as I should, but I just

826
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: like knowing, you know, hey, if something happened, it wouldn't

827
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 1: be a complicated cross country light. I could happen a car,

828
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: get on a train and be home. I think I've

829
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: made a lot of choices based around that. And I

830
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 1: think if my family knew what an emotional wait this

831
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: was for me and how it impacts a lot of

832
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: my thinking and choicemaking and all of that, they would

833
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: be disappointed. They would not want me to be living

834
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 1: my life this way. But it's hard, and I think

835
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 1: for me, as someone who has only been sort of

836
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: getting to know what this feels like pretty recently in life,

837
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: I think it's a bit of a balancing act of

838
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: like how you make heads or tails of this new

839
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: thing that frankly you never thought you were gonna be

840
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: dealing with and your pre caretaking, right, this is not

841
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: like you're taking an active roles, But do you know

842
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: that it's coming. I know that it's coming, and I

843
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: know that you know. I know that with as close

844
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: as I am to my dad, I know that will

845
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: never be in a situation where like someone else is

846
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: doing a caretaking like it's me, right, Like, so are

847
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: you saying that you want to take up the mantle? Correct?

848
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: And you do won't want to find yourself in a

849
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:08,439
Speaker 1: position of delegating their responsibility or paying for for professional caretakers.

850
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: And I have to ask you, do you think that's

851
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: has anything to do with an identity as being a woman,

852
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 1: like are you more likely to take on that mantle

853
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: and like kind of want to martyr yourself for this

854
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: or is it? Is it a conscious choice? Like without what?

855
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: I think it's both. I think one is just that

856
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: my dad and I have a really close relationship and

857
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: so you know, and I also I know my dad right, Like,

858
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: my dad would never want to have a stranger in

859
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: his home doing things for him. My dad wants to

860
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: do things on his own, and if someone has to

861
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 1: do things for him, it's not going to be a

862
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: stranger in our house because my dad's does not like that.

863
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: And so one is just from having a close relationship

864
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: with my parents. Two, I do think it's gendered. I mean,

865
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,919
Speaker 1: all the research suggests that women do end up doing

866
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: most of this kind of work. And I think that

867
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: as the only daughter in my family, I think that

868
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,280
Speaker 1: there is an expectation that as the as the girl

869
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: that will fall on me. Isn't your brother a doctor, lawyer, lawyer,

870
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: my mom's adoptor? Okay, yeah, so I was thinking like

871
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: maybe one of your siblings is like professionally poised to

872
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: take on this role, but no, And I also just think.

873
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I do wonder if it's also cultural, because

874
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: the idea of delegating family obligation to outsiders seems very foreign,

875
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: particularly in my family. My family is in my black family.

876
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 1: Is that what we're talking about? This is your mom

877
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: told you perfect? So I wonder, like I mean, on

878
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: all the research, there was very little, shockingly little on

879
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: elder care as it comes to raise in the United States,

880
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: other than the racial makeup of professional caregivers, which is

881
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: very non white, And so I wonder if how that

882
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: impacts only decision making. I would love to see research

883
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: around that, just anecdotally, Again, I have not seen this research,

884
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: but anecdotally, I would think that caregiving, hiring outside caregiving

885
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: is something that communities of color perhaps are not doing

886
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: at rates that are as high as their white counterparts.

887
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 1: That would be my assumption. And I think, if I

888
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: recall correctly, Latino families are much more likely to have

889
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: multiple generations living under the same room exactly, which I

890
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 1: think is becoming much more of a thing um And

891
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: it's probably where I see myself in the future in

892
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: terms of elder care. But I don't know. I'm dying

893
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: to hear from our listeners on this right, because it

894
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: is such a private conversation that's fraught even within every family.

895
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: So it's like there's very few places other than perhaps

896
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: Lizz's Facebook group, where people are having these conversations amongst caregivers,

897
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: amongst decision makers who are navigating these choice moments within

898
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 1: each of their own families. And it feels to me

899
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: like we need to be talking a lot more about

900
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 1: this to bring the conversation out of the shadows, to

901
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: get some public policy support on an issue that barely

902
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 1: has a name. So we're daughters. We want to hear

903
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,839
Speaker 1: from you. Do you identify as a working daughter? Do

904
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: you feel the squeeze that Liz was talking about perhaps

905
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: a lot more than Bridget and I do right now,

906
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: right as being unwed, unmarried, childless women, which we'll talk

907
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: more about in this series. But you know, what does

908
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: it feel like to play those different roles of mother

909
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: of daughter to an aging parent and of course in

910
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: your professional life, how does that show up? Yeah, I'm

911
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: really curious how other folks are navigating this. Are you

912
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: someone like me who is just now starting to think

913
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: about these things and how they'll show up in your life?

914
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: Is a partner or someone else that you know going

915
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: through this. I'm just really curious how this issue is

916
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: showing up in people's lives, So make sure to hit

917
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: us up on Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You,

918
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, and as always, we

919
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 1: love getting your emails at mom stuff at how stuff

920
00:47:51,239 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: works dot com. Four