WEBVTT - Welcome to the Chicken Universe! with Sy Montgomery 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:17.920 You're listening to part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:23.960 and iHeartRadio. Guess what Will? 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:24.720 What's that Mango? 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:26.720 Did you know that a chicken can run as fast 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:29.320 as nine miles per hour? Like if you put them 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:31.240 on a leash, they could be running companions for you 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:32.440 on your next half marathon. 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:34.880 I did not know that. Despite the number of times 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:36.800 I have put them on leashes and run, I've never 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:39.680 never actually tracked them. So it's a you know, I 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:42.600 do have a couple of chickens that could easily outrun me. 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:46.240 I mean like they're really especially potato chick, our fastest chicken. 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:47.600 Oh she flies. 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.240 Yeah, Well, chicken speed is just one thing I learned 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.200 from the wonderful author Si Montgomery's new book, What the 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.760 Chicken Knows. There's so much incredible stuff in there, from 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:01.120 how chickens can find the midpoint of a geometric shape 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:02.800 on the ground, like if you put them in a 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.760 square or triangle, they can find the exact midpoint. Chickens 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:09.000 go wild when they see red dots, So there was 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.240 a point when farmers used to outfit their birds in 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.440 tiny rose colored spectacles so that they couldn't see the 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:18.640 red and also chickens can give their owners distinct names. 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.959 It is really wild. Anyway, I found this book so fascinating. 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:25.400 I called sy up and asked her when you come 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.360 on part Time Genius and talk chickens with me? And 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.880 she said yes. She is so lovely, and even though 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:33.880 I don't love chickens, by the end of the conversation, 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.679 I wanted to go pet a hen, so let's dive in. 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.080 So it's such a pleasure. 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:01.840 To have you on Part Time Genius. I'm so thrilled. 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:05.120 I've got to say, I love this book so much, 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.239 and I am a huge fan of you know, I 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:12.000 grew up reading James Harriet and like Gerald Darrell and 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:16.040 all these naturalists authors and the sweet way they write. 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:20.320 And I was so charmed by just the first page. 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:22.520 I was just going to read a little bit from 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:27.840 it because it's so funny. You say, just beyond the 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.280 narrow space between the grass and the machines, metal undercarriage 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:36.280 movement catches your eye. Scaly reptilian yellow feet, heavily armed 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:40.119 with long pointed claws, and just above the toes, curved 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:45.040 knife sharp spurs are purposefully striding towards you at face level. 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:48.320 It feels just like that scene from Jurassic Park. And 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.120 then you go on to talk about how a chicken 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:54.280 or rooster is approaching. And I'm just going to say, 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:56.560 I'm so delighted by this book and thank you so 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.120 much for being on this program. 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:02.120 Wow, you make me feel like a million dollars. But 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:04.600 I suspect you do that with all of your guests. 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:08.680 So tell me, how is it that you came to 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:11.880 this whole world of writing about animals. 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:16.679 Well, I think from before I could even talk, these 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.799 were kind of my people. When I was real little, 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.680 well it's less than two. I was born in Germany 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.560 and my parents took me to the zoo and I 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.600 broke free of their hands. And when they found me, 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:31.000 I was in the hippopen at the Frankfurt Zoo. 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:35.600 In the hippopen. Oh my gosh. 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:39.320 So my mother never got over that, but it bothered me, 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.280 and it didn't bother the hippos either. I just felt 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.560 comfortable around animals. And when I could finally find you know, 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:50.560 when I found my voice, when I could speak English, 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.520 I told my parents about my existential problem. They were 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:56.960 so busy trying to turn me into a little girl. 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:01.080 I had no interest in this I was really a horse, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.960 So my mother went to the pediatrician and he told 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.480 her that I would soon get over it, which I 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.120 did when I realized I was actually a dog. So 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.240 there was nothing to be done except to get me 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:20.760 a dog to teach me how to be a dog. 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:27.520 And so my first friend, my only sister, my most 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:31.680 important mentor before I ever went to school, was a 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:36.839 Scottish terrier named Molly, and I would follow her around. 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:39.479 I was aware, even as a small child, we know 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.400 that animals have powers we do not. We know that 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.400 they can hear things above and below the threshold of 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.599 human hearing, that they smell an entire world that we're 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.839 oblivious to. That they can often, you know, run faster 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:57.000 than us, so they can do things like fly. So 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:02.680 I wanted to be part of these superpowers. And I 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:08.880 have spent my life essentially following Molly's lead and trying 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.240 to learn the secrets of the animals and learning to 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.880 recognize each of them as potential teachers. 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:19.240 I love the title of this new book, what the 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:22.880 Chicken Knows, And you're actually learning from your chickens, not 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.600 just learning about them. So did you have that perspective 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:27.480 from the very beginning of this project, or was it 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.480 something that you realized as you were writing. 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.880 When I was living this book, I didn't know i'd 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.920 be writing about it because it was taking place in 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:40.680 our barnyard. This was my everyday life, and it was 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:43.720 years later. At first I wrote a book called Birdology, 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:48.440 and my original title for it was birds are Made 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.440 of Air, And what it wanted to look at was 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:54.400 what makes a bird a bird? And I wrote about 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:59.120 my chickens in that book, along with chapters on cassowaries, 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:04.600 on hummingbirds and hawks and pigeons and parrots and others, 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:10.440 each examining another aspect of birdiness that makes a bird. 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:17.239 But I realized that chickens need their own book. Now 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.240 so many people are getting chickens. A lot of folks 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:24.760 got chickens during the pandemic, and now as egg prices 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.000 are rising, people are wanting to have their own chickens 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:31.960 as well. And eggs are wonderful, and I eat eggs. 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:34.760 I only eat eggs from chickens who I personally know 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:39.839 and don't object. But the eggs are the least of it. 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:44.279 The honor of getting to know these chickens as individuals. 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:49.159 The honor of being invited into the chicken universe, almost 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:54.360 as an honorary chicken. That is the real joy point 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.680 for me of having these birds around. 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:00.599 I love that you refer to it as the chicken universe, 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.880 and I was gonna mention that because it's such a 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:08.840 joyous perspective of sort of being integrated in their whole world, 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.080 and there's so many fascinating facts. But I think part 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.160 of what was interesting to me about this book was 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.080 you start by mentioning that a lot of people have 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:20.640 the wrong perspective of chickens, that they actually think that 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.120 they're dumb creatures, that all they do is sort of 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.400 like peck and roam. But you talk about how brilliant 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:28.440 they are, So okay, can you tell me a little 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:31.880 bit about how you started to realize that they were 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:34.680 thinking sort of bigger than just the way we perceive them. 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:38.680 Well, I think most animals, you can just expect that 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:44.280 they are more complex, more fascinating than anyone expected. I think, 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:50.560 particularly for food animals, people tend to minimize their intelligence, 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.520 their emotions, et cetera, to excuse the fact that we 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.560 make them our slaves and then eat them. So when 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.360 I went into the chicken universe. I went in with 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:06.640 beginner's mind. It was just like here, I am, I'm 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:09.720 open to whatever you're gonna teach me. Well, from the 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:15.160 moment they arrived, they just shocked and thrilled me at 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:18.480 every turn. When my babies first came, I had visited 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:20.720 them as fluffy little chicks at my friend's house, our 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.880 friend Fretchen Morn, who gave them to us as a 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:25.160 barn warming present. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:27.760 I love that phrase, barn warming. I thought that was 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:28.520 so cute. 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:31.640 Well, it does warm up the bar, and they're wearing 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.800 down coats after all. But when we brought them home, 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.640 I worried that, since our chicks were going to free range, 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:43.800 that they'd get lost. And the reason I worried about 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.360 this was that as a child, I had gotten lost 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:51.520 in my own backyard. We moved a lot. I got disoriented. 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:55.000 Why should I expect a chicken to be so much 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.240 more intelligent than I had been? And you know, the 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:00.680 time I got lost, I think I was in like 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:07.720 sixth grade. The chickens instantly knew where they lived, and 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.760 they went out roaming, and at the end of the day, 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:15.400 as it began to get dark, they came right back inside. 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:20.800 I was astonished. And further, how they figured out the 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:25.640 boundaries of our property I do not know. There is 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:31.000 a low stone wall between us and our neighbors, and 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.280 on the other side there's a road. I mean, you'd 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.480 think maybe they wouldn't want to cross the road, because 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.679 why would the chicken cross the road? But this persisted 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.000 for years. They would not jump over that low stone wall, 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:45.760 although they would jump over much larger objects elsewhere on 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:50.040 the property and they could fly. What happened next was 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.960 we got new neighbors, and there were these two wonderful 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:56.680 little girls, and from the day they first showed up, 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:58.920 they fell in love with our seven hundred and fifty 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.760 pound pig we lived ur team and died of his 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.920 old age in his sleep, and our border collie and 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:09.640 our flock of hens. And pretty soon the little girls 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:11.960 were over our house every day, and we were over 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:16.720 their house every day. And then the chicken's behavior changed. 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:22.920 Then they annexed their property. They began to use the 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:27.640 neighbor's yard as their own because they figured out that 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:32.120 our two families had essentially become one unit. And they 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:34.480 figured it out before we figured it out. 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:37.040 I love that, you know, one of the things we 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.120 did on part time Guenis a few months ago now 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.240 was we did this twenty five greatest Ideas in Science 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:46.400 and things that kind of delighted us, and we found 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:50.000 the study that showed that chickens preferred people with symmetrical faces. 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.160 And I've actually never thought about the possibility that chickens 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:56.160 might be able to like think about us or you know, 0:10:56.280 --> 0:11:00.600 that they'd be good at recognizing faces, but you know, 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:05.400 both of people, but also of chickens, and I was curious, 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.640 you know, why is this such a useful ability to 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.200 be able to recognize other chickens? 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:15.320 Oh well, for a chicken, community is everything. And you've 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:17.680 heard about the pecking order in chickens and it just 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:23.200 sounds like they're meanly pecking each other mindlessly, stupidly, rudely. 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.520 But the pecking order is really about order and it's 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.040 not so much about pecking. A lot of pecking did 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.560 not actually happen with our flock, the ladies. They were 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:36.079 very ladylike and it was largely a feminist utopia until 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:40.600 we do have a few roost But for them, it's 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:44.520 really important to know who's everyone in your group and 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.640 who do you get along with every night, each hen 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:52.160 chooses her best friend to roost next to, or her 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:55.679 two best friends. Huh, these kinds of things we can 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:59.760 easily relate to, because for humans this is essential as well, 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.160 and I have seen it quoted widely, although I haven't 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:07.320 actually read the study that chickens can recognize one hundred 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:12.000 different faces, and they definitely recognize our faces as well 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:16.280 as the faces of other chickens. And your point about faces, 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:21.200 you know, there's different ways to recognize an individual. There 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.000 has been work done showing that they are not just 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.320 looking at the general gestalt or the shape or the 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:31.760 clothing or the feathers of their friends. They are specifically 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.920 looking at the faces. And the scientists who figured this 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.440 out had a blast doing things like putting different colored 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:42.320 feathers on some chickens, and you know, changing their tails 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.600 around or making them wear little sweaters. But the minute 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:48.120 you start messing with their face, if you start giving 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.079 them a fake comb or you make them wear sunglasses, 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:55.160 just like a person donning a Halloween mask, it becomes 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.400 far more difficult to recognize your friend, and I love it. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:05.040 They also gaze into the faces of their friends and 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.520 their enemies and new acquaintances to get to know them. 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:11.920 All right, We've got so much more chicken talk coming 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:30.520 right up after the short break. Stay tuned, and we're 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.439 back with author Si Montgomery. One of the things that 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.640 really surprised me was that, you know, chickens are different 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.160 from a lot of other birds and definitely from humans, 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.240 in that as soon as they hatch, they are very capable. 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.840 And I was curious, like, they've got all these instincts. 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.240 They can see, they can walk, they can run, Like, 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.000 what is the evolutionary reason for this? 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:59.760 Well, chickens come from the jungle fowl and Asian spa 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:04.520 who nests on the ground. So if you nest in 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.280 a tree, you can be like a little hummingbird and 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:09.880 be all naked and helpless and not even open your 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.120 eyes for days and just gape your beak and hope 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:14.920 your parents are going to show up and help you. 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:17.960 But if you nest on the ground, predators are going 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.520 to come and get you. And that is known as 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:26.040 the precocial strategy. And we've heard of precocious children, you know, 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:31.520 and all ground nesting birds that I know of are precocial. 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.720 And it makes quite a lot of sense to be 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.320 able to get up and get out of there if 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:37.600 predators are coming your way. 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.680 I also really love the scenes of like all these 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:45.640 little chicks walking through your sweater and playing on your 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:49.240 keys as you're typing, and it was just such a 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:50.280 sweet image. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.760 Oh my gosh, I loved it so much. But it 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.360 was a downside to it. And besides the fact that sometimes, 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.840 you know, it would poop in my hair, and that 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.960 was that they're fluff. This is when I would order 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:06.400 baby chicks in the mail and they would arrive still 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:12.200 egg shaped and run around. When they grow their feathers, 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.800 each feather is encased in a shaft of carroten, which 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.640 is the same stuff as our fingernails, and when the 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.840 feather would bloom and burst forth, the carroten would essentially 0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:26.600 shatter and it filled the office my computer, my books, 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:31.800 my printer, my keyboard, everything with this thick layer of dust. 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.000 And eventually my computer choked to death on it, and 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.880 my friend came and took it apart and instantly saw 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:43.200 this like thick layer of dust inside. They figured out 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.280 exactly what we're wrong, and they were able to fix it. 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.320 But it really did make a terrible mess, but. 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.160 It wasn't worth it because I got to be with 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:55.720 them like all my waking hours, and they got to 0:15:55.840 --> 0:16:00.280 know me, and very soon their little personalities began to 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:01.400 emerge right away. 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:03.560 You can tell the ones who are bold, the ones 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.960 who are shy, the ones who are fast, the ones 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:12.200 who are slow, and you have this you know relationship 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:16.320 that can go on for you know, five six, seven years. 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.520 Some chickens live into their teens. It's very very rare, 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:24.560 but it's a lasting relationship. And knowing someone going back 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:29.480 to their chickhood just really enriches your friendship the same 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.840 way as knowing someone from their childhood. 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:36.120 Talk to me a little bit about ordering chicks, because 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:38.360 I was really fascinated by the idea of looking through 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.320 these catalogs, almost the same way a gardener looks through 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:43.440 the gardening catalogs that come through. 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.520 Yeah. Well, the chicken catalogs show you all different kinds 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.960 of chickens. Chickens with poofy top knots, and chickens with 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.480 fluffy feathers on their feet, and tall, skinny chickens and 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:58.080 some with tails that cascade off the perch down to 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.480 the ground twelve feet long, and chickens they call easter 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.560 egg chickens who lay eggs. Some of them are green, 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:08.800 some of them are blue, some of the eggs are 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:13.320 kind of rosy pink. There's a chicken for every occasion. Actually, 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:16.760 what I looked for, I mean, some of them are 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.600 just so cool to look at, but what I really 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:21.840 was looking for is chickens who would be comfortable and 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:26.359 warm enough in New Hampshire winters so that they would thrive. 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:29.560 In the back of your book, you've got this gorgeous, 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:34.000 gorgeous series of photos all these ornamental poultry or these 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:38.159 creatures with you call them top hats or it was 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.480 just so striking to see the variety of chickens that 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:42.479 you're not even aware of. 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:49.600 Yeah, they're apparently like pigeons, very plastic species, like dogs too. 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:54.760 That lends itself to all kinds of different forms through breeding. 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:59.560 I was delighted to have my beautiful black sex links 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:04.520 and my heritage breed dominiques who were black and white. 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:09.000 But occasionally the breeder would throw in a free exotic 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.159 chick and you didn't know what you might be getting, 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:14.280 but you could be pretty sure it was going to 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:18.800 turn out to be a rooster. And that's the feminist utopia. 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:20.359 At our house was shattered. 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:24.000 I do want to talk about roosters. I love this 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:29.000 idea of this feminist utopia. But my grandmom in India, 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.240 she had this like house that had a lot of 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.280 extended family, and so one of my aunts was obsessed 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:37.399 with animals, and so we had all these cows and 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.399 dogs and rabbits and you know, like various birds and 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:44.960 things like that. But there were always chickens around, and 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:49.480 the roosters were so aggressive. And I when I saw 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:51.679 in your book in the front part you said you 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.439 talked to a friend and she had like a rooster 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:58.640 whisper who basically said, pick up the rooster and almost 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:02.280 cuddle it and that changes its impression of you. That 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:04.080 was really stunning to be So, tell me a little 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.560 bit about roosters and why they have this sort of 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:07.520 behavioral trait. 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:12.000 Well, a lot of roosters get abandoned in the woods 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:17.160 or they turn into soup because of this behavior. Roosters 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:22.320 will do anything to protect their flock, and they're very gentlemanly. Generally, 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:26.040 they will call to their ladies to tell them when 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:29.199 there's something particularly delicious to eat, and they will step 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:34.359 back and let them enjoy. But because you know, all 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.119 birds are pretty delicate, they're made of air, their bones 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:41.720 are hollow. A rooster who feels that his flock is 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:46.360 in danger has to take action. And roosters are equipped 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:50.880 with pointy spurs that can actually hurt you if they 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:55.760 feel under threat. And I discover this to my dismay 0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:00.639 when we had our minister over one day and was 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:06.040 introducing his new fiance to me and wanted to enchant 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:10.720 her children with our friendly barnyard. While the peg came 0:20:10.800 --> 0:20:13.119 bucking and snorting out of his pen and the children 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:16.639 were a little shaken up by them. And then Graham, 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.239 my minister says, here's someone more your size, and he 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:23.520 starts to pet some of the heads. And I've always 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.880 petted my hands too, And you start like near their neck, 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.760 and then you follow the neck down and often the 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:34.679 chicken was squat when you reach the tail. And this 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:39.879 is actually called the sex squat, and it's used to 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.520 let a rooster jump on the back of them. So 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.800 our rooster just at that moment, looked up across the 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:52.959 barnyard and saw what he perceived as a travesty the minister, 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:57.399 as far as as was trying to have sex with 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:01.639 his head, so he came full across the barnyard and 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:06.800 hit Graham on the legs spurs first and true blood. 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.560 So you can imagine that day was not the fun 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:13.919 filled adventure that Graham was hoping for. I ended up 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:17.080 giving both of the children an egg to try to 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:19.280 cheer them up, but then later learn that one of 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:20.920 them broke in the back of the car and stay 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:22.120 they have a whole street permanently. 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.120 It's so funny because previously in the book you write 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:32.480 about like the neighbors who take to all your animals, 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.560 and you sort of imagine the same scene's gonna happen 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:38.680 with this minister and his family, and it just does 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:42.920 not work out that way. But in terms of roosters 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.760 and the way they communicate, I think there's a bit 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:50.760 in your book about the various sounds that the chickens 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:53.000 make and that they have something like twenty four different 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:57.240 calls and different ways to warn about animals coming from 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.639 the air or from the ground, or can you talk 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:00.560 a little bit about that. 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:06.680 Yes, absolutely, they are communicating very specific information and you 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:10.600 can see this when a rooster calls out that he 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.960 has seen a hawk. What do you think happens to 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:20.200 the chickens. Well, they start looking up because he's told 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:24.040 them it's an aerial predator. But if he calls out 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.199 because he's seen a fox, they don't look up. He 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:31.280 said fox. Foxes don't fly through the sky, so they'll 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:34.879 look around. He can also indicate whether the animal that 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:38.719 is threatening them is coming quickly or slowly, or is 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:43.160 near or far. He also tells them whether the treat 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:47.280 he's discovered is particularly delicious, because the tempo of his 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:53.680 call will be faster. So animals are communicating all around us, 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:57.600 and only recently have we learned to tune in. And 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:01.720 I love it that this most common bird of all. 0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:06.000 There's four chickens for every human on this planet. Even 0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:08.720 if you can't tell a robin from a crow, everyone 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:12.240 could recognize a chicken. We take them for granted, but 0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:17.679 they are right there before us, and fabulous teachers of 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:19.560 wildness and wonder. 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:23.680 And you also mentioned that the chickens had come up 0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:25.240 with a name for your friends. 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:28.800 Yes, this is so interesting. My friend Melissa, who has 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:32.600 written a wonderful book called How to Speak Chicken, and 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:36.159 she also had a blog called Tilly's Nest. Tilly was 0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:40.280 her lead chicken and it was Tilly who invented a 0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:43.240 name for her, And so how did she know it 0:23:43.280 --> 0:23:48.160 was a name? Well, first of all, Tilly only said 0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:52.520 this around Melissa, never said it when Melissa wasn't around, 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:56.160 never said it to other people. And it sounded kind 0:23:56.160 --> 0:24:00.719 of like ba, I mean, it went almost like a 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:06.320 trumpet announcing the arrival of a queen. And she realized 0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:10.199 what this sound was. It was her name. And we 0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:13.560 know of a number of other animals that invent names 0:24:13.600 --> 0:24:18.240 for themselves and for others. We know dolphins have signature whistles, 0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:23.439 for example, and we know that dogs recognize their names 0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:27.879 and recognize our names. Whether they make up their own 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:32.200 name in dog we don't yet know. But it makes 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:36.720 complete sense to me that in a society in which 0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:41.760 everyone's position in the group is important, it makes total 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:44.240 sense that they would have a name for the person 0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:46.440 who cares for them. 0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:51.000 And I think you mentioned that even after Tillie had passed, 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:53.960 the chickens continued to use that name for her. Right, 0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:57.080 it was this legacy that lived on. 0:24:57.520 --> 0:25:01.560 That'sly taught that name to others in the flock. So 0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:06.760