1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: This is My Legacy. Welcome to this week's bonus Drop. 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Today we're sharing more from our conversation with Simon Sinek, 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: best selling author and leadership visionary, as he reflects on 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: how one extraordinary woman challenged everything he thought he knew 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: about happiness and helped him finally confront what he was 6 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: truly addicted to. 7 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 2: Simon, I wanted to ask you a really important question 8 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 2: that's based on the philosophy of the book, What is 9 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 2: my legacy? And what we try to do is really 10 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: lean into doctor King's concept of the bloved community. But 11 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 2: we find that around connection, and we find that around 12 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 2: the idea of fulfillment and leading a fulfilled life. And 13 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 2: you being a philosopher and an incredibly practical leader, So 14 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 2: putting those two hats on a practical philosopher. 15 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 3: I love that. 16 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: I love that you can coin that in your opinion 17 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 2: based on your experience, how does one live and lead 18 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 2: a fulfilled life? 19 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 3: So I think fulfillment comes from. 20 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 4: Knowing that your life and or your work are contributing 21 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 4: to something bigger than yourself, and that is relative to 22 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 4: one zones, ambitions, and goals. You know, somebody who's devoted 23 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 4: themselves to parenthood and sees a child flourish and going 24 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 4: to be something bigger than themselves. Will find that feeling, 25 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 4: but coming to work simply to make money. It's exciting 26 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 4: at the beginning, but it doesn't contribute to a feeling 27 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 4: of lifelong contribution. 28 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 3: And this is where vision matters. You know. Vision is. 29 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 4: An idealized version of the world we want to live in. 30 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 4: And when your dad said I had a dream, he 31 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 4: was articulating a world that did not exist, still doesn't exist. 32 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 4: It's an ideal state that we strive towards. We'll never 33 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 4: get there, but we'll die trying. And that's sort of 34 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 4: the point, and all of the markers, all of the progress, 35 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 4: all of the waypoints, you know, three steps forwards, two 36 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 4: steps back, three steps forwards are proof that we're getting 37 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 4: closer and closer and closer to this idealized state. And 38 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 4: that's what leads to a fulfilled life. That I'm making 39 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 4: progress to a world that is better than the one 40 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 4: we live in now. 41 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 2: And how do you find fulfillment and your unhurt? 42 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 3: So I have a vision of the world that doesn't exist. 43 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 4: I imagine a world in which the vast majority of 44 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 4: people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever 45 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 4: they are, and end the day fulfilled by the work 46 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 4: that they do. And I strive to build that world 47 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 4: in my work. You'll see it in my writing, You'll 48 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 4: see it in my speaking, You'll see it in the 49 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 4: products that we sell on our website. They're all contributing 50 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 4: to advancing towards that vision. But it's how I work 51 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 4: very hard to show up. 52 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 3: As a person. That's how I am as a friend. 53 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 4: You know, if you ask my friends what do you 54 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 4: love about Simon, you know, invariably they'll say something to 55 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 4: the effect of I can sit in a room with him, 56 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 4: I don't even have to talk to them, and I 57 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 4: feel inspired. You know my standard. When I come off 58 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 4: a stage, I don't want to be It's very nice 59 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 4: when people say that was interesting. It's very nice when 60 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 4: you say you're entertaining. You know, that's all lovely, and 61 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 4: I appreciate those those compliments. But the one that fills 62 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 4: me is when you when people tell me that was inspiring. 63 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 4: And so it's work. 64 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 3: You know, it's work to do those things. 65 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 4: But when I when I when I'm advancing that and 66 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 4: it's imperfect, and I'm imperfect, and it sometimes doesn't work, 67 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 4: and sometimes I'm grumpy and sometimes I forget, But when 68 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,519 Speaker 4: it works, it is deeply satisfying on a very very deep, deep, 69 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 4: deep level. 70 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 5: Simon, I don't know if you realize this, but I 71 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 5: used to monitor the klu Klux Klan and Neil Nazis 72 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,399 Speaker 5: and skin his I tell you that, you know, one 73 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,959 Speaker 5: of the things that we we play a lot when 74 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 5: things get very heavy in our home is Doctor King's 75 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 5: speeches and sermons. And I love the way. There's one 76 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 5: in particular that that I that recharges me. And he 77 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 5: talks about the fact of liking and loving. He says 78 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 5: that he's happy that in the Bible it says that 79 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 5: you don't have to like your enemies. And he went 80 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 5: on to say, because there's some people that you just 81 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 5: won't like. And he said, you know, I won't like 82 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 5: the man that bombed my home and almost you know, 83 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 5: killed my child. Now I won't like them. I can't 84 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 5: like the man who you know bombed the church and 85 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 5: killed you know, four children. But then he went on 86 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 5: to talk about love. And I think that it always 87 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 5: is a misconception when we talk about love, because people 88 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 5: automatically think about the sentimentality of love. It's an acknowledgment 89 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 5: and when we start from number one, separating if we're 90 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 5: talking not from our friends and those who we have 91 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 5: love for, but society at large. It starts with separating 92 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 5: the evil act from the individual. And I also think 93 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 5: it for me, it gives me great relief to know 94 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 5: that I don't have to like everybody, you know, and 95 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 5: that's okay to not have to like everybody. It is 96 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 5: the acknowledgment of our shared humanity and coming I think 97 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 5: from that place, which I think is another way of 98 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 5: what you're saying. 99 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 3: That's so good and. 100 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 4: It's so right, which is, you know, we're supposed to 101 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 4: love our fellow human being, but we don't have to 102 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 4: like everybody. 103 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 3: I think we. 104 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 4: Conflate and confuse these words and these feelings because we 105 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 4: add the sentiment mentality. 106 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:01,719 Speaker 3: You know. 107 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 4: It is an interesting comparison. Have you ever watched the 108 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 4: TV show First forty eight. It's kind of an insane show. 109 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 4: It's reality TV where it's basically following homicide detectives, and 110 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 4: homicide detectives are not like regular beat cops. You know, 111 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 4: cops are some of the most cynical people you'll ever meet. 112 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 4: Because they generally see people at their worst on a 113 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,040 Speaker 4: day to day basis, you know, But homicide cops are 114 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 4: completely different breed, and they have the sense that everyone, 115 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 4: no one deserves to have their life taken. And like 116 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 4: they'll investigate the deaths of drug dealers, no one's gonna 117 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 4: miss them. They've been a blight on society, They've done damage. 118 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 4: They may have caused harm themselves, but damn it, it's 119 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 4: not for another person to decide when they live or die, 120 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 4: and they seek justice, and I just I'm always fascinated 121 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 4: how they seem to have love, but they definitely don't 122 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 4: have like yes, and to see how it affects the 123 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 4: way that they approach the world is very, very different. 124 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 5: Like follow and subscribe to my Legacy podcast and most importantly, 125 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 5: share this with someone who needs their reminder of their 126 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 5: strength today. Back in a moment, now, back to my 127 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 5: legacy Simon. 128 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 6: As we as we sat here talking, and what kept 129 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 6: running through my mind was you described solitary confinement is 130 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 6: a form of torture. How we need each other in 131 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 6: connection and the last time we spent meaningful time together, 132 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 6: we were in a far off corner of the world 133 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 6: and we were reflecting on the McMansions, the gated communities, 134 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 6: the closed doors, and how in North America people seem 135 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 6: to strive to work so hard to earn enough money 136 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 6: to pull themselves away from everyone else. They want to 137 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 6: be on the private plane, they want to be on 138 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 6: the McMansion, they want to be in the gated community. 139 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,679 Speaker 6: And the irony is that they are shutting themselves off 140 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 6: from others. And so when I look at our time 141 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 6: in Kenya, I was reflected by the fact that you 142 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 6: said one of the most inspirational people you ever met 143 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 6: was Mama Jane yep. And you know, to our listeners 144 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 6: and those watching, they're gonna go Mama who they won't. 145 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 6: But like you were with President Biden for God's sakes 146 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 6: last month and you said, one of the most inspirational 147 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 6: people you met was Mama Jane. 148 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,119 Speaker 3: So can you share her story. 149 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 4: So one of the things that is for anybody who 150 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 4: comes from the West when you go to Africa, especially 151 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 4: when you go to rural Africa, which is where we were, 152 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 4: where there is real poverty, like the tropes of the 153 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 4: mud huts yep that live in mud huts. Yeah, that 154 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 4: we have this assumption that because they have less in 155 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 4: terms of money or material wealth, that they are unhappy. 156 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,679 Speaker 4: And yet you meet people who are in these circumstances 157 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 4: who don't die of heart disease, they don't get as 158 00:07:55,560 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 4: many cancers as we do, they don't have diabetes, and 159 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:05,239 Speaker 4: they're smiling all the time. Now, let's not confuse feeling 160 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 4: wealthy and happy with struggle. They absolutely struggle. Their lives 161 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 4: are absolutely difficult, and they are with each other and 162 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 4: help each other. And I came to the lesson that 163 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 4: I learned from that trip is we are so arrogant 164 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 4: in our wealth that we just assume that people who 165 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 4: don't have our wealth must be unhappy, which is the 166 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 4: same mentality as a heroin addict feeling unhappy for all 167 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 4: the people who don't do heroin because they don't have 168 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 4: hour high. Ah, all you people who are sober, you 169 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 4: don't feel how good I feel, completely neglecting the fact 170 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 4: that we're addicts. We are addicted to money and they 171 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 4: are not. And yes they have struggle, and yes they 172 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 4: have needs, and yes we want to help them and 173 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 4: they should be helped, and they're learning how to help themselves. 174 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 4: But they are happier. And you look at the kids too. 175 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 4: And there's data on this. There's data that shows that 176 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 4: kids who have fewer toys have better imaginations and actually 177 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 4: have more excitement. So like, again, we go from the 178 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 4: West and we go to Africa and we see the 179 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 4: kids playing with a stick and attire and we're like, oh, 180 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 4: poor kids, they only have a stick and attire. And 181 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 4: yet they're laughing and they're smiling and they're giggling the 182 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 4: whole time. You know why, because they have an imagination 183 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 4: that is not a stick and attire, that is something 184 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 4: that is a game they're playing in their minds. And 185 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 4: I came back from that trip realizing that I'm an 186 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 4: addict like everybody who lives in the West, and I 187 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 4: would rather foster a relationship and relationships like theirs, and again, 188 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 4: the ability to separate struggle from happiness, they're not the 189 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 4: same thing. And Mama Jane is this community leader, self 190 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 4: appointed community leader because she decided she wanted a house 191 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 4: that wasn't a mud hut a brick house, which is expensive, 192 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 4: and she figured out a way to sell the milk 193 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 4: from her cows. That she would walk hours to go 194 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 4: to the center of the city to sell her milk 195 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 4: and over the course of time, she saved up enough money. 196 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 4: She goes into the village, She goes into the center 197 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 4: of town, finds a builder and says, I want to 198 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 4: build a house. She says, this is the money I have. 199 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 4: He goes, well, that won't build your house. That'll build 200 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 4: you a couple of walls. She goes, well, let's start there. 201 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 4: And she eventually saves up enough money and works hard enough, 202 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 4: and she builds a house, a house that she invited 203 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 4: us into and is immensely proud of. And she helped 204 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 4: the other mamas, the other women, the other mothers in 205 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 4: the area, to teach them how to also save up 206 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 4: and also build their own houses. And the part that 207 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 4: really got me was the joy that she had, the 208 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 4: smile on her face, the expression of absolute pride when 209 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 4: describing one of her friends or one of the people 210 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 4: in her community who built a better house than hers. Now, 211 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 4: we don't do that in the West. We want our 212 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 4: house to be the biggest, We want our house to 213 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 4: be the best. We want You know, what did Teddy 214 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 4: Roosevelt say? You know, comparison is the thief of joy. 215 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 4: And I love that he used the word thief. It 216 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 4: steals a feeling from me. 217 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 3: That's why he was like, yeah, that's comparison is the 218 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 3: thief of joy. 219 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 4: And we live a world where we watch social media, 220 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 4: where everybody's friends are prettier, everybody's vacations are better, everybody's 221 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 4: life is more complete, everybody's achieving their financial goals, everybody's 222 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 4: in shape, everybody's. 223 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 3: Going out to great meals. 224 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 4: I can know because they keep taking pictures of their food, 225 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 4: and and we sit at home by ourselves, scrolling, thinking, 226 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 4: I hate my life. And the thing that I found 227 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 4: so amazing about these magical human beings is also when 228 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,839 Speaker 4: we went to one of the schools and we met. 229 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 4: We went to a girls school of high school, as 230 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 4: you know because you took me there. And they have 231 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 4: cell phones, they have Instagram, they have social media, they 232 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 4: have access to the internet. They are not addicted because 233 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 4: they spent a life fostering relationship and they're just not 234 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 4: addicted because they have real friends. And it immediately goes. 235 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 4: It reminds me of an experiment. You know, most of 236 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 4: our understanding of addiction comes from some experiments that were 237 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 4: done in the fifties and sixties where they put a 238 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 4: rat in a cage and they gave it two flasks 239 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 4: of water, one just plain water and one that's laced 240 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 4: with drugs. It tries both of them. It likes the 241 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 4: drug laced one. It eventually gets addicted and drinks so 242 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 4: much of the drug laced water until it dies. Okay, 243 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 4: and most of our understanding of addiction comes from these experiments, 244 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 4: except the experiment is flawed. A guy by the name 245 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 4: of Bruce Alexander recognizes that rats, like human beings, are 246 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 4: social animals, and if you put a social animal by 247 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 4: itself in a cage with drugs, it's going to get 248 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 4: addicted to the drugs. So he recreated the experiment, except 249 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 4: he made it more realistic. 250 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 3: He called it rat Park. He put a. 251 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 4: Huge cage with lots of rats and mazes and wheels, 252 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 4: and they are having babies and community and friends, the 253 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 4: whole deal. And they put up two flasks of water, 254 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 4: one plane, one drug lace. They all tried both. They 255 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 4: all tried enough of the drug lace one to get addicted, 256 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 4: except they didn't. They can see from the data that 257 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 4: they drank the plane water. So it starts to give 258 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 4: evidence that if we have a strong set of community, 259 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,119 Speaker 4: and if we have close relationships, we become less susceptible 260 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 4: to all addiction, and so, yes, social media is insidious. Yes, 261 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 4: the social media companies actually absolutely bear some responsibility and 262 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 4: they can't do buyer beware. 263 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 3: That's nonsense. 264 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 4: That's like giving somebody you know a fentanyl and saying, well, 265 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 4: not our problem. 266 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 3: No no, no, no no. 267 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 4: Buyer beware is you don't get You don't get a 268 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 4: free pass. If you don't like it, turn it off. 269 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 4: That doesn't it's not how addiction works. But if you 270 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 4: take lonely people and you give them an addictive thing, 271 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 4: they're more likely to get addicted. These kids in this 272 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 4: high school in Kenya, because they had such close friendships 273 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 4: and they were taught how to be friends and they 274 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 4: help each other because they had to, just aren't addicted 275 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 4: to the same addictive things that we are. And so 276 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 4: it becomes I think we have a lot more to 277 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 4: learn from rural Kenyans than than than we can teach them. 278 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 4: I think we are so arrogant to think that they 279 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 4: should learn our way of life. I think we should 280 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 4: learn theirs. 281 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. I came away pretty humbled. 282 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 5: My greatest takeaway from Kenya is that, well, first of all, 283 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 5: when we were traveling, we saw all of the satellites 284 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 5: on the houses, so I thought initially maybe the difference 285 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 5: was not having technology to your point, and that's that's 286 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 5: not it. What I loved too was that you said, Mama, Jane, 287 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 5: is that all of the mothers are called mama, and 288 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 5: you call each other, you know, so it doesn't matter 289 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 5: who is the the biological mom. You know, it's like 290 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 5: you know, and so it to me it represented that 291 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 5: that sense of community and connection, that you truly are 292 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 5: mother to all and that you know you that it 293 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 5: really is that it takes a village. We see the 294 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 5: embodiment of that even in the power of language and words. 295 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 3: It's an horrific right. 296 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just such a good observation, and you see 297 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 4: it in places like India and other parts of Asia 298 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 4: as well, where friends family friends are auntie and uncle. 299 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 4: And it also bestows not only a respect, but also 300 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 4: a sense of community and responsibility. 301 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 2: Simonelri and Kenya, you were so kind to join the 302 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: four of us to another five of us to become 303 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 2: co chancellors of a college called Legacy College. And it's 304 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 2: this amazing facility where we do programming for students in 305 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: business tourism and nursing and then also international programming. And 306 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 2: you were inspired by that college and you inspired the 307 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 2: students of that college. Why did that college speak to 308 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: your heart? 309 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 4: I mean, it's pretty humbling to recognize that my work 310 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 4: has made. 311 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 3: It to rural Africa in a big way. 312 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 4: You know, where the kids there had my books that 313 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 4: they wanted me to sign. I mean, that's pretty humbling, 314 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 4: you know, so superficially that's that struck me. 315 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 2: Of course, they were so excited to meet you, Timon, but. 316 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 4: Thank you and I them. But I think the thing 317 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 4: that inspired me more than anything was the purity of 318 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 4: their desire to learn. 319 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 3: They are such good students with you know here. 320 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 4: You know, if another tech startup tells me about their 321 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 4: first principles, you know, I'm gonna like just gagmas with 322 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 4: a spoon, just like nobody knows what they're talking about 323 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 4: when they're talk about first principles, which is beginner's mindset 324 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 4: and all beginner's mindset and first principles means is I'm 325 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 4: going to pretend that I don't know anything and be 326 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 4: a student of whatever it is, except we're not very 327 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 4: good at it, and they really are, and they show 328 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 4: up with unbridled curiosity. 329 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 3: They show up with no ego. 330 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 4: They show up humbled that they have so much more 331 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 4: to learn from people who know more than them. They 332 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,479 Speaker 4: have nothing to prove, and as a result, they are 333 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 4: smarter than us, They are more communal than us, they 334 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 4: are more successful than us. I mean, let's be honest, 335 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 4: the speed at which they learned. I mean, let's just 336 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 4: talk about those high school girls again. Microsoft generously donated, 337 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 4: I think it was Microsoft generously donated a bunch of 338 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 4: computers to this high school and they show up. The 339 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 4: story that we were told is they showed up with 340 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 4: all these laptops all connected to the internet, and these 341 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 4: kids had These are teenagers, these are high school girls 342 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 4: that have never seen a laptop in their lives. They've 343 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 4: never touched one, they've never used one, they've never used 344 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 4: a computer. And Microsoft said they would train them and 345 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 4: expected this would take months and months and months for 346 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 4: something that we all grew up with. And I think 347 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 4: it was days, days that the kids were completely fluent 348 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 4: and ready to go. 349 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 2: Days they were shocked, like they. 350 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 3: Couldn't believe it. 351 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 4: And it's because you talk to these kids. They speak 352 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 4: multiple languages, they they ask the most brilliant questions, And 353 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 4: I think you can tell a lot about someone's level 354 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 4: of curiosity and intelligence by the questions they ask. And 355 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 4: these high school kids were asking me better questions than 356 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 4: I get from most adults in the United States. So 357 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 4: so again, I think there's a I think there's a 358 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 4: humility we need to learn. We have a lot more 359 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 4: than they do, for sure. But but it's not always healthy. 360 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 4: It's not always healthy. 361 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 2: So we've talked about love, connection, fulfillment, friendship showing up. 362 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 3: Now we have to talk about cats. 363 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 2: We can talk about cats and dogs. 364 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 3: I'm a dog. 365 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 4: Person, but you know the difference between cat people and 366 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 4: dog people. Dog people wish their dogs were people, and 367 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 4: cat people wish they were cats. 368 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 3: Think about it. 369 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 4: It's right, there's no Andrew Lloyd Weber musical about dogs. 370 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:57,719 Speaker 3: That's weird. 371 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 4: Nobody dressed up as a dog for Halloween. 372 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 3: Yes, it's cats for Halloween. 373 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: Well, my wife's I have one hundred and twenty pound 374 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 2: Bernize Mountain dog and my wife lovely says, there's three 375 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 2: of us in the relationship. 376 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 3: Right there, you go, because people who are dog people 377 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 3: are people. 378 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us. If you enjoy Today's conversation. Subscribe, share, 379 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: and follow us on at my Legacy movement on social 380 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus 381 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: content every Thursday. At its core, this podcast honors doctor 382 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 1: King's vision of the beloved community and the power of connection. 383 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: A Legacy Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and 384 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: executive producer Suzanne Hayward Come executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen 385 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,959 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.