1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: Col Zone Media. There was still a little bit of 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: snow on the ground and Ellsworth, Maine as the sun 3 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: began to set. On March seventeenth, nineteen sixty eight, Claudia 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: and Frank Smith had been informed by a neighbor that 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: a suspicious looking car with out of state plates had 6 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: been driving back and forth past their house all weekend, 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: and by Sunday evening, Frank had had enough. He wanted 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: to get a good look at the driver. With Claudia 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: at the wheel, the couple began following the mysterious Volkswagen 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: that had been shadowing them for two days. Who was 11 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: chasing who? Who loaded his gun first? No one can 12 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: quite agree. By the time the dust had settled, two 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: members of the American Nazi Party had spent the better 14 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: part of an hour exchanging gunfire. Somehow no one was injured, 15 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: but both cars were riddled with bullet holes. After Christopher 16 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: Vidniyevitch was taken into custody, an officer overheard Frank Smith 17 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: ask him, what was the reason? I thought we were friends? 18 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: But the reason should have been obvious to Frank. Surely 19 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: he knew why. A loyal lieutenant of the American Nazi 20 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: Party would take a shot at him. They were both 21 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: men on a mission, the same mission. In fact, they 22 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: were both conducting their own investigation into the murder of 23 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: George Lincoln Waqua, I'm Molly Conger, and this is where 24 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: little Gods, that shootout in Maine took place. More than 25 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: six months after George Lincoln Rockwell died. His killer had 26 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: already been convicted of murder. But a closed case file 27 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: never stopped at conspiracy theory. You know that. And before 28 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: we can get into why Frank Smith believes John Patler 29 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: didn't do it, we have to get up to the 30 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: point in our story where he did. When we left 31 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: off last week, it was nineteen sixty three. John Patler 32 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: had been allowed to rejoin the American Nazi Party after 33 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: failing spectacularly at his brief attempt to lead a splinter group. 34 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: Over the protests of most everyone who'd known John Patler, 35 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: Rockwell welcomed him home again. I struggled a bit this 36 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: week with the question of where to focus this episode. 37 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: It would be easy enough to take a straightforward chronological 38 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: journey through the activities of the American Nazi Party in 39 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: the mid nineteen sixties. There are some good stories in 40 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: there some wild anecdotes that I'm sure I'll revisit some 41 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: other time through the lens of some other weird little 42 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: guy who was there for them. After all, this show 43 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: is just one long story told out of order. Listeners 44 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: with long memories might remember I actually talked briefly about 45 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: George Lincoln Rockwall's nineteen sixty five campaign for governor of 46 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: Virginia in an episode last fall. It was a story 47 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: about the history of Virginia's crossburning laws, so I reserve 48 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,839 Speaker 1: the right to come back to nineteen sixty five another day. 49 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: I hate to think I wasted half my week collecting 50 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: old newspaper clippings about events I'm skipping over entirely. But 51 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: what I found most interesting in piezing together this timeline 52 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: is the question of why why did John Patler murder 53 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: George Lincoln Rockwell in August of nineteen sixty seven. Truthfully, 54 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: no one knows, But in the absence of that elusive truth, 55 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: competing and conflicting narratives arose, and the question becomes what 56 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: motivates those Even when you can't sort out what the 57 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: truth actually is, trying to discern the motivations behind those 58 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: half truths can shed some light on things. So instead 59 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: of telling you about every time a member of the 60 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: American Nazi Party got arrested for disorderly conduct at a 61 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: rally that got out of hand, every trip across the 62 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: country to disrupt a civil rights march, every wild stunt 63 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: pulled by a guy in a swastika armband. Instead of 64 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: all that, I want to ask you a question. What 65 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: is a white person? Who is white? That's easy, right, 66 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: You know what a white person is. It's like what 67 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court said about pornography. You know when you 68 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: see it, But how do you know? Is it the 69 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: color of your skin? Is it the birthplace of your parents? 70 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: Is it your hair, your culture, your religion, your politics? 71 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: Who is white? Are people of Slavic descent white? Are 72 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: fair haired Northern Africans? Can a Jewish person be white? 73 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: Can a Communist be white? Italians are Europeans? Surely that 74 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: makes them white. But what about a dark haired, olive 75 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: skin Sicilian. I'm no sociologist, I'm not an expert on 76 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: the idea of race as a social construct. But for me, 77 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: the clearest evidence that the boundaries of whiteness are constantly shifting, 78 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: that the definition is a highly politicized moving target that 79 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: whiteness is something that can be given and taken away. 80 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 1: Is the fact that the most racist people on the 81 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,799 Speaker 1: planet are usually the ones writing and rewriting that definition. 82 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: In the American South, we had the one drop rule. 83 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,239 Speaker 1: The faintest trace of black ancestry excluded you from whiteness. 84 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 1: But without DNA testing or consistent record keeping, how could 85 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: you know who had a black great grandmother. In apartheid 86 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: South Africa, the law required all people to be officially 87 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: registered with the government as black, white, colored, or Indian. 88 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: But how you were classified wasn't up to you. It 89 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: was determined by someone else, not just based on how 90 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: you looked, but how you lived, what language do you 91 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: speak at home, how educated are you, how poor are you? 92 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: And it wasn't uncommon for members of the same family, 93 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: children with the same parents to end up classified differently 94 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: by the government. And famously, Germany adopted the Nuremberg Claws 95 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty five, codifying a definition of who is 96 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: German and who is Jewish. In all three of these 97 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: chapters of history, those who fell outside the legal boundaries 98 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: of whiteness were excluded from the benefits of citizenship and 99 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: it isn't just governments who have struggled with classifying who 100 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: exactly should be excluded. You'd think that no one would 101 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: be more firm than the Ku Klux Klan when it 102 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: comes to defining whiteness. But the Klan had to hold 103 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: a vote in the mid nineteen seventies to determine whether 104 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: white immigrants and Catholics were white enough to don white robes. 105 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: For George Lincoln Rockwell and his American Nazi Party, the 106 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: parameters were set by Hitler himself. Rockwell was America's Hitler, 107 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: or at least he hoped to be. He wasn't just 108 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: repeating some of the same ideas Hitler had in Nazi Germany. 109 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: He felt he was Hitler's spiritual successor. His Nazi Party 110 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: headquarters were adorned with gigantic swastika banners, and his storm 111 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: troopers wore Nazi uniforms. He founded the American Nazi Party 112 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: after weeks of intense, vivid dreams that always ended when 113 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: he walked into a room to find Adolf Hitler sitting 114 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: there waiting for him to arrive. He through a birthday 115 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: celebration for Hitler every year on April twentieth, the first 116 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: full issue of the party's newsletter was far from the 117 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: only one to bear a photo of Hitler on the 118 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: front cover. He dedicated his nineteen sixty one memoir to Hitler, 119 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: and in that memoir, Rockwell is pretty clear what he 120 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: means when he talks about the white race. He's talking 121 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: about blonde, blue eyed Aryans, Hitler's Aryan race, people of 122 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: Nordic and Germanic heritage. He lists Slavs, Italians, and Greeks 123 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: in the same sentence as Chinese and Japanese immigrants. These 124 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 1: are minority groups. These are races outside his definition of whiteness. 125 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: But in nineteen sixty five, the commander of the American 126 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 1: Nazi Party was starting to wonder if he was using 127 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: the wrong definition of whiteness. Rockwell's political philosophy had always 128 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: relied on the legacy of Adolf Hitler in Nazi Germany, 129 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: but the United States in nineteen sixty five didn't exactly 130 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: have the same concentration of Germans as Germany. In nineteen 131 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: thirty five, it was becoming painfully clear that without broadening 132 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: this definition of whiteness, he would never have enough white 133 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: people to do anything with it all, and the movement 134 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: would be doomed. Even in predominantly white areas, American born 135 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 1: Protestants of pure Nordic or German blood were usually outnumbered 136 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: by Catholics, first generation white immigrants, and people whose ancestors 137 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: came from southern or Eastern Europe. He wasn't abandoning Hitler's 138 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: vision exactly. He was just adapting it for an American movement. 139 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: This idea of a broader coalition of whites was on 140 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: Rockwell's mind as early as nineteen sixty five, but the 141 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: evidence of that is own only in his private letters. 142 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 1: It's not until nineteen sixty six that the perfect opportunity 143 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: for rebranding the movement landed right in his lap, and 144 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: that's when he invented the phrase white power, or so 145 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: the story goes. In June of nineteen sixty six, Stokely Carmichael, 146 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: who was not yet called Kuame Toure, gave a speech 147 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: in Greenwood, Mississippi. The words black power had been spoken 148 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: before plenty of times. Richard Wright wrote a book in 149 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four called Black Power. Grace Lee Boggs founded 150 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: the Organization for Black Power in nineteen sixty five. Adam 151 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: Clayton Powell Junior, a congressman representing Harlem, used the phrase 152 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: in a speech earlier in nineteen sixty six, But for 153 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: some reason, when Stokely Carmichael said those words in Mississippi, 154 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: they stuck, and black power entered the broader American lexicon. 155 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: Paper archives from that week show a sudden explosion of 156 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: articles and op eds about black power, What is it? 157 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: What does it mean? What do they want? Should we 158 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: be afraid? And biographies of George Lincoln Rockwell all credit 159 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: Rockwell with the invention of the phrase white power as 160 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: a direct response to Stokely Carmichael. And that's kind of true. 161 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: I guess it is at least as true as it 162 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: would be to say that Stokely Carmichael invented the phrase 163 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: black power. He didn't, but he popularized it. But William 164 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: Schmaltz's twenty thirteen biography says that Rockwell coined the term 165 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: for the first time while speaking at a rally in Chicago. 166 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: So I figured, if the first popular usage of black 167 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: power spawned a thousand hand ringing op eds, I bet 168 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: the first time someone shouted white power, it probably at 169 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: least an ended up in the newspaper. And it did. 170 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 1: But it wasn't Rockwell who said it. Chicago newspapers on 171 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: the morning of August first, nineteen sixty six ran headlines 172 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: like white mob battles Negro marchers and sixty injured as 173 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: angry crowd breaks up rights march, and the articles all 174 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: describe a very violent, large white mob attacking a few 175 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: hundred black civil rights marchers near Chicago's Marquette Park, and 176 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: the people throwing rocks at the marchers were all screaming 177 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: white power. So far, this all makes sense with what 178 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: I already know about that summer. There were several famously 179 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: violent assaults on civil rights marches in and around Marquette 180 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: Park that summer, and Rockwell did speak at some of 181 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 1: those events. But I double checked my timeline. Rockwell didn't 182 00:12:55,360 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: speak at Marquette Park until August twenty first, So who's 183 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: yelling white power in the park three weeks earlier. A 184 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: definitive answer to that question is probably lost a time, 185 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: But I think I found what could be the earliest 186 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: recording of someone using the phrase white power movement to 187 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: describe the thing we know it as today. 188 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 2: How mister Carmichael, if I may interrupt, you may see 189 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: right here an indication of where mister Rockwell is aligning 190 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 2: you as the antithesis of his movement, a white supremacy 191 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 2: or I think he a white power movement. I think 192 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 2: here is no question about it. 193 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: That's Chicago area news anchor John J. Madigan on the 194 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: July twenty ninth, nineteen sixty six episode of his political 195 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: discussion show at Random. The guests that evening were Stokely 196 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 1: Carmichael and George Lincoln Rockwell. It's not until nearly the 197 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: end of that hour long segment that Rockwell seems to 198 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: have grabbed hold of the phrase, and he makes an 199 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: ominous statement about the violence that would visit Chicago in 200 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: the weeks to come. 201 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 2: But I think we're building up to an inevitable confrontation 202 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 2: between blackfire and whackfire. Am. 203 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: I let's this omissions you used. Just two days after 204 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: this segment aired, The phrase white power is suddenly on 205 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: the lips of this white mob setting cars on fire 206 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: in south side Chicago. It's what they were screaming as 207 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: they hurled rocks at the nuns who marched with the 208 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: demonstrators from the Coordinating Council of Community Organizations the following 209 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: weekend that screaming white mob faced off again with civil 210 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: rights marchers, This time Martin Luther King Junior himself was 211 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: in town to lead the march, part of a series 212 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: of demonstrations that summer centered around housing discrimination. King wouldn't 213 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: live to see the fruits of the slabor but the 214 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: Chicago Freedom Movement is generally credited as the driving force 215 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: behind the passage of the Fair Housing Act, which was 216 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: signed into law just a week after his death in 217 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight. But on this day, August fifth, nineteen 218 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: sixty six, Martin Luther King Junior was struck in the 219 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: face with a rock as he entered Marquette Park, so 220 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: hard that he fell to his knees and the crowd. 221 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: The crowd was all screaming white power as the rocks 222 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: ranged down. King later told reporters quote, I've been in 223 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: many demonstrations all across the South, but I can say 224 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: that I have never seen, even in Mississippi and Alabama, 225 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: mobs as hostile and as hate filled as I'm seeing 226 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: in Chicago. And Rockwell was thrilled this was all the 227 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: proof he needed. Limiting himself to Hitler's ideas of racial 228 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: purity was holding him back. It was an aryan superiority. 229 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: It was white power that had united those racist throngs 230 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: in Chicago. These people throwing rocks at Martin Luther King 231 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: Junior were white, sure, but they weren't Arian. Many of 232 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: them were Polish and Lithuanian, the kinds of white he 233 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: hadn't tried to appeal to before. But white power, white 234 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: power brought them together and it could be the way forward. 235 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: Rockwell couldn't make it out to Chicago right away, but 236 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: he got to work. The party's printing press, housed in 237 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: a converted henhouse in rural Spotsovania County, Virginia, ran all 238 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: night long, churning out signs that said white Power. As 239 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: soon as Rockwell could scrape together the funds for a 240 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: plane ticket, he flew his most loyal lieutenant out to 241 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: Chicago to try to take advantage of this violent momentum. 242 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: John Patler arrived at O'Hare Airport with a suitcase full 243 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: of white power posters on August fourteenth. As I was 244 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: poring over the newspaper archives from August of nineteen sixty six, 245 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 1: the first time I found a name attached to a 246 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: chant of white power? Was it that march on August fourteenth. 247 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: It had been chanted by the crowd on July thirty 248 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: first and on August fifth. But in all of those 249 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: stories it's not coming from anyone's mouth. In particular, it 250 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: doesn't say where it started. So if the newspaper is 251 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: any official record of history, the first man to stand 252 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: in front of a crowd and lead an organized chant 253 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: of white power wasn't George Lincoln Rockwell. It was the 254 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: man who would shoot Rockwell dead almost exactly a year later. 255 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: It was John Patler standing on a bench in Marquette Park. 256 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: There is another, albeit slightly less cinematic possibility. As thrilling 257 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: as it is to put the first public rallying cry 258 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: of Rockwell's most famous slogan into the mouth of his killer, 259 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: I can at least speculate about the identity of the 260 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: nameless member of that crowd who may have started the 261 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: chant the first time. If nothing else, this is an 262 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: opportunity to introduce you more fully to the man who 263 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: opened fire on that couple in Maine. In nineteen sixty eight, 264 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: the American Nazi Party had an office in Chicago. John 265 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 1: Patler was living in Virginia, where the party had its 266 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: headquarters and he flew out to Chicago a week after 267 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: Martin Luther King Junior was hit with that rock. But 268 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: that first week in August, there were members of the 269 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: American Nazi Party in the crowd, and they may have 270 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: been the ones to get those chants going. The head 271 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: of the Chicago chapter of the American Nazi Party in 272 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six was a twenty two year old named 273 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: Christopher Vidnyevitch. Now you know, I love to be thorough. 274 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: I love to make a whole timeline of the lives 275 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: of even the most ancillary characters in a story. I 276 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: guess I just love wasting my own time. And you know, 277 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: I don't believe at face value the biographical details that 278 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: I read in Nazi newsletters. But those newsletters make some 279 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: extraordinary claims about Vidnyevitch. He says that he joined the 280 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: Nazi Party as a teenager because of his burning bone 281 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: deep hatred of communists. That's pretty standard, But he says 282 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: that he hated communists because they murdered his father, and 283 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: it's a claim he would later repeat on the stand 284 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: under oath when he testified in his own trial for 285 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: shooting at Frank Smith in nineteen sixty eight. So I 286 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: did a little of my own digging. It might have 287 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: been faster in retrospect, who work backwards by assuming that 288 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: he was telling the truth and searching for a man 289 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 1: with that last name who was executed in Yugoslavia after 290 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: the war. But that isn't what I did. The first 291 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: thing I found were naturalization records for a thirteen year 292 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: old boy named Kristo Vidnievitch, and on the back of 293 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: the card it was written that his name was changed 294 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: to Christopher when he gained his citizenship. And from there 295 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: I was able to find a new story from nineteen 296 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: fifty seven about a thirteen year old boy named Kristo 297 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: Vidniyevitch and his seventeen year old sister taking their oath 298 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: of citizenship in a courtroom in Chicago. By the time 299 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: they were naturalized, they'd been in the United States for 300 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: seven years. In nineteen fifty Lydia Vidnyevitch and her two children, 301 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: aged ten and six at the time, were listed as 302 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: stateless when they arrived at the port of New York 303 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: aboard a ship that had sailed from Germany. So I 304 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 1: kept digging, and I found a document produced by the 305 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: Internet National Refugee organization. In nineteen forty eight, Lydyavidnyevitch's application 306 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 1: for refugee status was denied, and the stated reason is 307 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,959 Speaker 1: quote petitioner is a crow up woman from Zagreb who 308 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: is evacuated by the Germans to Austria in December nineteen 309 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: forty four, with a number of other women and children 310 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 1: whose husbands were left behind by reason of their official functions. 311 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 1: Despite the very good impression which applicant has made upon 312 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: the board, there are reasons to believe that only the 313 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: wives of persons who assisted the Germans were taken care 314 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: of by the Wehrmacht. She later filed an appeal and 315 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: was ultimately deemed eligible for refugee status because the family 316 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: could not be safely repatriated to Yugoslavia due to threats 317 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: from someone quote moved by a spirit of revenge for 318 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: actions of Petitioner's husband. Well, now I'm committed. I need 319 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: to know what the story is here. I'm so far 320 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: afield of what I was supposed to be working on, 321 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 1: and there's really no excuse for a digression this long. 322 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: But I had to know what it was that this 323 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: man had done that might move someone's spirit that way, 324 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: So I spent an entire day trying to find and 325 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: translate documentation about war crimes tribunals in Yugoslavia. In nineteen 326 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 1: forty five, when Lydia Vidnyevitch spoke to a reporter at 327 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: her children's naturalization ceremony, she said that she had last 328 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 1: heard from her husband by letter in May of nineteen 329 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: forty five, when he was attempting to cross the border 330 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 1: into Austria. She neglected to mention that his letter was 331 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: written shortly after the remnants of the fascist government of 332 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 1: Croatia attempted to flee to Austria and before he was 333 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: captured by the British Army and sent back to face 334 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: a tribunal. He was executed a month later. Christopher Vidnyevitch's 335 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: father wasn't just a Nazi collaborator, he was a war criminal. 336 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: Ivan Vitnyevitch was tried alongside several high ranking officials of 337 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: the Nazi puppet government that carried out mass murder in 338 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: Croatia in the nineteen forties. Lydia told that reporter in 339 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty seven that her husband had been a judge 340 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: in Zagreb, but he was a judge in name only. 341 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 1: He was the presiding judge of Zagreb's mobile Court Martial, 342 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: an instrument of the Ustasha Rejim's program of mass murder, 343 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: these judges roamed the country carrying out show trials. The 344 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: trials lasted mere minutes, and the accused had no chance 345 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: to speak for himself. The defendant was always guilty and 346 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: the sentence was almost always death. He would try dozens 347 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: of people at once for crimes as minor as reading 348 00:23:53,400 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: forbidden political pamphlets, or simply for being Serbian or Romani Jewish. 349 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: In one afternoon in nineteen forty one, Ivan Vitnyevitch sentenced 350 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: one hundred people to die at the Yasenovats concentration camp. 351 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: So yes, I guess Christopher Vidnyevitch isn't technically wrong when 352 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: he said Communists killed his father, but it was only 353 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: after he stood trial for handing down death sentences for 354 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: thousands of Jews, Serbs, Roma and political dissidence. A long tangent, 355 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: I know, but I think it's worth knowing that one 356 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: of the most fervent, violent supporters of Rockwell's Nazi Party, 357 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: this young man whipping up crowds that beats civil rights 358 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: marchers every weekend all summer in Chicago in nineteen sixty six. 359 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: He was a true believer. He wasn't misguided, he wasn't confused. 360 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,880 Speaker 1: He knew exactly what it meant to call yourself a Nazi. 361 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: He knew exactly what he was advocating for and who 362 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 1: would have to die for him to get it. It 363 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: wasn't ironic or edgy or joke when he put on 364 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: that swastika armband. He did it to fulfill his father's legacy. 365 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: But we were talking about white power. It's Rockwell who 366 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: gets credit for the term, even if it was a 367 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: TV news anchor who put the words in his head 368 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: and his lieutenants who got those crowds to chant it. 369 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: In August of nineteen sixty six, Nazis raised hell in Chicago. 370 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: After Patler arrived in town on the fourteenth, he and 371 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: Vitnyevitch whipped up an angry mob in Marquette Park. One 372 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: police officer called the resulting violence the closest thing he'd 373 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,719 Speaker 1: ever seen to an all out war. In his rousing 374 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 1: speech from the park bench, John Patler announced to the 375 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: crowd that Rockwell himself would be speaking in that very 376 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: spot the next weekend. The August twenty first rally was 377 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: George Lincoln Rockwell's finest hour. He'd never commanded such an audience, 378 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: and he never would again. Sure, he'd spoken to huge 379 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: theaters of people, but this was different. Thousands of people 380 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: were there not to gawk at the Nazi, not to protest, 381 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: not to heckel, but because they wanted to hear him speak. 382 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: A few lone hecklers were quickly handled by the crowd, 383 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: but the people who were there were enthralled by him. 384 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: This was no college auditorium full of curious skeptics and 385 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:02,160 Speaker 1: silent protesters. This was a roaring crowd. And standing atop 386 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: his camper with a giant swastika banner draped down the side, 387 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: Rockwell capped off his speech by asking the crowd to 388 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: yell white power, loud enough for Martin Luther King Junior 389 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: to hear them on the other side of town. Over 390 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: and over again, he led them in a call in response, 391 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: yelling white and basking in the response as thousands of 392 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: voices responded power. Years later, when James Mason was writing 393 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: the newsletter, they would eventually be collected into the book Siege, 394 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: that bible of the modern neo Nazi terrorist He called 395 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:45,199 Speaker 1: this the Apex Moment of the nineteen sixties. But the 396 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: magic was short lived. Martin Luther King Junior moved on 397 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: from Chicago to other cities, and it turned out the 398 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: racist white people of Chicago didn't actually like George Lincoln Rockwell. 399 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: They just really hate the civil rights movement. But it 400 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: was proof still for Rockwell that white power was the 401 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: way forward. By the end of nineteen sixty six, Rockwell 402 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: was drafting his final book, White Power, although he had 403 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: no way of knowing he would die just days before 404 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: it was released. On January first, nineteen sixty seven, he 405 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: issued a formal announcement to party members that they were rebranding. 406 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: The American Nazi Party would from that day forward be 407 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: called the National Socialist White People's Party. The mandatory sea 408 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: khuiles would be replaced with shouts of white power. In 409 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: the director of announcing the change, Rockwell wrote quote, we 410 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: must strive among our white family of people to include 411 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: all and alienate no white non Jews. He was commanding 412 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: his Nazis to stand shoulder to shoulder and to accept 413 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: as equals lesser whites. Not everyone shared the commander's vision. 414 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: There was a growing schism within the party, those who 415 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: accepted this new commitment to a pan white unity, and 416 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: those who could never accept any departure from a strict 417 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: interpretation of Hitler's racial philosophy of Varian superiority. This new 418 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: expanded definition of whiteness was offensive to Nazi hardliners and 419 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: factions formed. For men like Mattias Cole and William Luther Piers. 420 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: It was unthinkable that lesser races like Slavs or Greeks 421 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: could be included in the party's ranks, and John Patler, 422 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: the son of Greek immigrants, with his dark hair and 423 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: his dark eyes, became the living, breathing manifestation of this 424 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: heresy that was threatening to tear the organization apart. William 425 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: Luther Piers hated John Patler. That's important to remember as 426 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: we move into the messy work of trying to sort 427 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: fact from fiction. In everyone's account of what happened in 428 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: the weeks before Rockwell was murdered, Pierce was not shy 429 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: about the fact that he was disgusted by Patler's presence 430 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: in the party. Even decades later, not long before his 431 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: own death in two thousand and two, heerce recalled to 432 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: his own biographer that Patler was a quote dark, greasy 433 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: looking little guy, and he was always scheming. Rockwell was 434 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: fully committed to his new vision. He was contemplating another 435 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,239 Speaker 1: run for office, and this approach had the potential to 436 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: broaden his appeal. America is full of racists, He'd led 437 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: them on marches up and down the streets of Chicago. 438 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: But no matter how racist they are, no matter how 439 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,239 Speaker 1: many beliefs they share with Rockwell, a huge chunk of 440 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: voting age men in America in nineteen sixty six had 441 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: the living memory of fighting the Nazis in World War Two. 442 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: No amount of shared racism could overcome their visceral disgust 443 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: for the swastika on his shoulder, even if they hated 444 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: Jews as much as he did. But replacing the swastika 445 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: with an eagle, swapping the sea kile for white power, 446 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: and preaching a message of white unity, of white power 447 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: in this time of a hysterical white fear of black power, 448 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: that could help him get his message to the masses. 449 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: That could earn him thousands of new followers. But he 450 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: was painfully aware of the need to convince the followers 451 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: he already had. First, he couldn't afford to lose them. 452 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: Rockwell urged John Patler to be patient, to be diplomatic, 453 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: to let the commander handle it, but Patler was still 454 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: the same volatile, paranoid man he'd been a decade earlier, 455 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: when a court ordered psychiatric evaluation ominously predicted that he 456 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: may one day commit murder. So tensions were high at 457 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: the Nazi Party barracks. Perhaps if he'd kept his head down, 458 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: Rockwell would have eventually achieved party discipline on the new messaging, 459 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: but instead Patler stoked conflict. He was reprimanded for calling 460 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: another Stormtrooper a blue eyed devil. He fell behind on 461 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: his duties as publisher of Stormtrooper, the party's quarterly magazine, 462 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 1: and as the man in charge of the printing press. 463 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: He dragged his feet when Rockwell ordered him to assist 464 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: Willie Luther Pearce in producing Pearce's new publication called National 465 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: Socialist World. Aside from the existing racial animosity between them, 466 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: it seems like Patler saw National Socialist World as a 467 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: competitor to The Stormtrooper, which was his magazine, and with 468 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: Pierce on the scene with his own publication, he was 469 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: worried that he would lose favor that he would lose power. 470 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: When Rockwell assigned another party member to assist Patler at 471 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: the printing press since he was falling so behind in 472 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,239 Speaker 1: his work, Patler turned the man away and wouldn't let 473 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: him in the building because that man's views fell more 474 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: on the pro Nordic side of the schism. So he's 475 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: causing problems on purpose, and he's got a bad attitude, 476 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: and he doesn't have a lot of people on his side. 477 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: The only person really on his side through all of 478 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: this is George Lincoln Rockwell, so that counts for a lot. 479 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: But he's becoming a liability. The breaking point finally came 480 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: in March of nineteen sixty seven. The last straw is 481 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: never really the most significant one, but when Rockwell arrived 482 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: back home in Virginia after a court appearance in Chicago, 483 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: he found Paller had once again left his post without permission. 484 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 1: He'd been shirking his duties for months, sometimes disappearing for 485 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: a week at a time without telling anyone. During Rockwall's 486 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: Midwest college speaking tour over the winter, the pair had 487 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,919 Speaker 1: argued when Patler demanded money for airfare to fly home 488 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: to take care of his father in law, who he 489 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:26,800 Speaker 1: said was ill. Rockwell gave in that time, but Patler 490 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: had abused the commander's leniency for the last time. Biographies 491 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: of Rockwell characterized the memo drafted on March thirtieth, nineteen 492 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: sixty seven, as an ordered dismissing Patler from the party. 493 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: But I've read it and I don't agree. The two 494 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: page document bears the subject modification of duties. Of the 495 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: thirteen numbered paragraphs, the first seven outlines the reason Patler 496 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: is being disciplined. He's been at sent from his post 497 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: without permission. He's only produced two issues of Stormtrooper over 498 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: the past year. He's abusing his editorial control of the 499 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 1: magazine by printing statements without Rockwell's sign off. Pretty straightforward stuff, 500 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: But the tone shifts when Rockwell gets to the thing 501 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: that's actually bothering him. Quote. You have continuously produced catastrophic 502 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: division and hatred between party members, berated other party officers 503 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: in the presence of troops, allowed your personal life to 504 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: cause the disaffection of workers in the party to the 505 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: point of near explosion, particularly in Chicago. And you have 506 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: done precisely the same thing you did last time before 507 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: you ran out on the party with Dan Burroughs to 508 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: try to set up your own party. You have agitated 509 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: and irritated everybody around you until I have on my 510 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: hands a series of near mutinies and upheavals. He seems bothered. 511 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: Rockwell goes on to say that he will no longer 512 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: tolerate the disruption of Patler's quote damnable, constant emphasis on 513 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: the dark's verse, life's controversy, and his quote irrational inferiority 514 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: complex over being Greek and dark. He says that none 515 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: of that matters to him. He's always been committed to 516 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: white unity. It's Patler who's making this a problem. I 517 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: don't know why everyone's surprised that there's racism at the 518 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: Nazi Party headquarters, but that was the problem. But he 519 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: doesn't dismiss Patler from the party. That's not what this 520 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: letter says. Quote. You have left me no honorable choice 521 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 1: but to discipline you as severely as it is in 522 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: my power short of ejecting you from the party. I 523 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: could also do that, but I do recognize your value 524 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: to the cause and your dedication there two. The discipline 525 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 1: he imposed was definitely humiliating, for sure. Rockwell sent Mattia's 526 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 1: coal to cut the lock off Patler's bedroom door at 527 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: the party's property in Spotsylvania County, which he knew would 528 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,840 Speaker 1: bother Patler because the men hated each other. But Patler 529 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: was only relieved of his duties at the printing press. 530 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: He was reassigned to live at the party's barracks in Arlington, 531 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: where he would continue to edit and publish Stormtrooper Magazine 532 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: under Rockwell's direct personal supervision. Honestly, it's barely a punishment. 533 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: Patler hated being assigned to the Spotsylvania property. It was 534 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: way out in the country and far from his family. 535 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: That's part of why he kept leaving his post. Moving 536 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: back to Arlington would put him closer to his family. 537 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 1: By this time, he'd married his second wife and they 538 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: had two young sons. But he did not take the 539 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: letter well. Despite what looks to me like a clear 540 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: statement that he's not kicked out of the party, Patler 541 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: walked away. Surviving letters that Patler wrote to another member 542 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: of the party in April and may do show that 543 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 1: he was angry. He was angry with Rockwell, he was 544 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: angry with the party. It was a lot like when 545 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: he walked away in nineteen sixty one with Dan Burrows. 546 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: You know, he spent a few months cursing Rockwell's name, 547 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: and he got over it. They'd been through this before. 548 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 1: They'd known each other for nearly a decade. Hatler was 549 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: one of Rockwell's very first followers, and aside from all 550 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: the times that he did quit, he was loyal. They 551 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: were close, and Rockwell had always forgiven him before, and 552 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: it seems Patler was willing to forgive too. In one letter, 553 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: he wrote that summer he not only forgave Rockwell for 554 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 1: sleeping with his wife, he gave the commander his blessing 555 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: to continue the affair if he wanted to, writing, if 556 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: Alice wants to make it with you, I wouldn't object. 557 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 1: That's the truth. In his final letter to Rockwell, Patler wrote, 558 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: I feel so much better after talking to you. I 559 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: want so badly to get back into the spirit of 560 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: things and push for you all the way. I don't 561 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: think there are two people on earth who think and 562 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: feel the same as we do. You are a very 563 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: important part of my life. I need you as much 564 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: as you need me. Without you, there is no future. 565 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: There's no evidence that Rockwell ever wrote back, but Christopher 566 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,919 Speaker 1: Vidnyevitch testified at trial that Rockwell directed him to meet 567 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 1: with Patler several times that summer to discuss reconciliation. Contrary 568 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: to the tone of Patler's own letters, Vidnyevitch paints a 569 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:07,280 Speaker 1: picture of a spiteful, bitter man plotting revenge, claiming Patler 570 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: told him quote Rockwell is an evil genius and he 571 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: must be stopped. 572 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 2: Now. 573 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,280 Speaker 1: I should be clear with you before we go any further. 574 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: John Patler murdered George Lincoln Rockwell. He did. He was 575 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: convicted at trial, which makes it legally true. But is 576 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,280 Speaker 1: it true? I think so based on my own reading 577 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 1: of the evidence against him, I'm convinced the jury reached 578 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 1: the correct verdict. Patler himself has never accepted responsibility for 579 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,799 Speaker 1: the crime, and there are a handful of holdouts with 580 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories to this day. But on the question of 581 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: who pulled the trigger, I have no doubt that it 582 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: was John Patler. So that's not why I spent days 583 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: trying to itemize these small discrepancies in every recorded account 584 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 1: of the events leading of to Rockwell's death. I'm not 585 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:05,399 Speaker 1: searching for an alternate suspect I'm just curious about what 586 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,280 Speaker 1: people might be trying to gain by muddying the truth. 587 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: Because everyone is every account of what happened after that 588 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 1: memo in March has to be weighed against the motivations 589 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,800 Speaker 1: of the man telling the story. Take Vidnyevitch, for example. 590 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: His trial testimony is the only source for the claim 591 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,040 Speaker 1: that Rockwell asked him to meet with Patler in June. 592 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: But why would Rockwell assign that task to Vidnyevitch. The 593 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: pair had worked closely together in Chicago the summer before, 594 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: but Vidnievitch was firmly in the Aryan superiority camp in 595 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: this schism. He was with Matias Kohle. He was a 596 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: fanatical racist. He joined the American Nazi Party to follow 597 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: in the footsteps of his father, a Nazi collaborator and 598 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: a Croatian nationalist who was executed for his role in 599 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: the ethnic cleansing of Serbs. He would have been a 600 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,720 Speaker 1: poor choice to extend the olive branch to Patler that summer, 601 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: but his testimony at trial was convincing enough that when 602 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court of Virginia upheld Patler's conviction, Vignievitch's testimony 603 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: that Patler had made those threats in June was the 604 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: only evidence they cited as a motive. And then we 605 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: have Matias Cole, who said that when he was watching 606 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 1: Patler pack his things after being relieved of his duties 607 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 1: at the Spotsylvanian property, he just kept muttering over and 608 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:38,560 Speaker 1: over again, He's making a mistake. He'll be sorry. An 609 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,759 Speaker 1: ominous statement, to be sure, if he said it. But 610 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: Cole is also the source of claims made just hours 611 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,239 Speaker 1: after Rockwell's death that Patler had been expelled from the 612 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: party because of his Bolshevik leanings because Communist thought kept 613 00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 1: creeping into his work. Matias Cole had been the loudest 614 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 1: voice within the party against Rockwell's shift away from Hitler's 615 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,759 Speaker 1: ideas about Germanic racial purity, a matter he rectified when 616 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 1: he seized control of the party immediately after Rockwell's death. 617 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 1: I know that sounds like I'm trying to present alternate 618 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: suspects and conspiracy theories. I'm not Hatler did it, but 619 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 1: in their attempts to keep their own secrets and to 620 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 1: write politically advantageous versions of history, they created the perfect 621 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 1: conditions for conspiracy theories that will never die. I never 622 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 1: get as far as I think I'm going to when 623 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 1: I start writing an episode. I skimmed over the entirety 624 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty four nineteen sixty five so I could 625 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,400 Speaker 1: get to the end of this murder trial. And I 626 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,920 Speaker 1: haven't even gotten to the murder itself yet. And I 627 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: guess I'll never have a chance to tell you about 628 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,960 Speaker 1: all those weird FBI memos I found from various members 629 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,839 Speaker 1: of the American Nazi contacting the FBI to accuse each 630 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: other of killing JFK. Some other day, maybe, But there 631 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: was just something so intriguing to me about this internal 632 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:19,960 Speaker 1: struggle over the optics of white power. Rockwell wasn't getting 633 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,280 Speaker 1: soft on racism in nineteen sixty six. He was trying 634 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 1: to find a practical way to inflict that racism on 635 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: a wider audience. He still believed in killing every Jewish, homosexual, 636 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,480 Speaker 1: and black person in the country when he finally got power. 637 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: He was just refining the sales pitch to increase the 638 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:48,279 Speaker 1: odds that he'd get that power. And John Patler wasn't 639 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,280 Speaker 1: kicked out of the party for being a communist. If anything, 640 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 1: he was the member of the party most closely aligned 641 00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:00,279 Speaker 1: with Rockwell. Plenty of people hated George Lincoln rock Well. 642 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,879 Speaker 1: People hated him for being a Nazi. Nazis hated him 643 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 1: for failing to live up to Hitler's legacy. But the 644 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 1: man who shot him, he didn't hate him at all. 645 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:19,120 Speaker 1: Next week, George Lincoln Rockwell will die. There's no way 646 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,560 Speaker 1: that episode doesn't get to the big moment I've been 647 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 1: working up to all this time. Rockwell gets shot, Patler 648 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,279 Speaker 1: goes to trial, and the Nazis left in their wake 649 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,760 Speaker 1: get to work trying to rewrite history and claim Rockwell's legacy. 650 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,320 Speaker 1: And I promise I haven't forgotten that strange little incident. 651 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,880 Speaker 1: It's last week, but maybe it's for the best that 652 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,480 Speaker 1: I didn't make it up to nineteen seventy six. I 653 00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,959 Speaker 1: meant to drive across town this week to double check 654 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:54,120 Speaker 1: my recollection. When John Patler was arrested for trespassing. The 655 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:59,000 Speaker 1: news story listed the address, and I swear to God, 656 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,279 Speaker 1: I think I went to a couple of parties in 657 00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 1: college at the house where John Patler once got caught 658 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:26,719 Speaker 1: having an orgy. There really is something cursed about Charlottesville. 659 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,399 Speaker 1: Weird Little Guys is a production of Cool Zone Media 660 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. It's researched, written and recorded by me, Molly Conger. 661 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,560 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Sophie Lieuchdmann and Robert Evans. The 662 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,360 Speaker 1: show is edited by the wildly talented Rory Gagan that 663 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,360 Speaker 1: the music was composed by Brad Dickert. You can email 664 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,439 Speaker 1: me at Weird Little Guys podcast at gmail dot com. 665 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,439 Speaker 1: I will definitely read it, but I probably won't answer. 666 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,400 Speaker 1: It's nothing personal. You can exchange conspiracy theories about the 667 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,560 Speaker 1: show with other listeners on the Weird Little Guys subreddit. 668 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,960 Speaker 1: Just don't post anything that's going to make you one 669 00:46:55,000 --> 00:47:04,239 Speaker 1: of my Weird Little Guys