Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the most dramatic podcast ever.
Speaker 1: I'm Chris Harrison. Welcome here to what we will affectionately
Speaker 1: call Studio A, the home office in Austin, Texas. Wherever
Speaker 1: you are, wherever you find yourself on your journey, you
Speaker 1: are welcome here. And I just want to say thank you.
Speaker 1: I want to start off by saying thank you for
Speaker 1: the response to the first episode, and I hope you
Speaker 1: have listened to episode one. If you have not, I
Speaker 1: recommend you hit the pause button, step back watch episode one,
Speaker 1: listen to it, take it in. UM. I think the
Speaker 1: connective tissue to these two episodes is very important and
Speaker 1: vital to get the feel and the vibe of everything
Speaker 1: I said in episode one leading into this one. UM.
Speaker 1: I also want to say thank you to the response.
Speaker 1: I should have said this in the first episode, but
Speaker 1: no joke. It was a very emotional moment to get
Speaker 1: all of that out, and so I missed a few things,
Speaker 1: and what I wanted to say was thank you the
Speaker 1: response to the trailer that we dropped. We announced this
Speaker 1: UM connection, this partnership with My Heart Radio about a
Speaker 1: month ago and mid early December, and this particular show
Speaker 1: the most dramatic podcast ever that I would be hosting.
Speaker 1: And the response from you was incredible, and I was
Speaker 1: blown away and I was so touched, and it's it's
Speaker 1: never lost on me how amazing all of you are
Speaker 1: and how loving and I'm sure curious intrigued by all
Speaker 1: of this, but to make the trailer of the show
Speaker 1: the number four podcast in all podcasts and number one
Speaker 1: in its category was overwhelming. And I just want to
Speaker 1: say thank you. I am so appreciative and I can't
Speaker 1: wait to see the response to these first two episodes
Speaker 1: that we are dropping together. And just to give you
Speaker 1: a little logistics, UM, Lauren and I flew out to
Speaker 1: San Francisco, that's where we actually recorded the first one,
Speaker 1: just so I could be with the team, the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio team. And then now we are back home
Speaker 1: and our our beautiful home in Austin, Texas, where Lauren
Speaker 1: and I have set up shop and made our life. Um.
Speaker 1: And speaking of Lauren, Zema is going to be joining
Speaker 1: us just a little bit later. But beyond the response
Speaker 1: to the trailer, one thing I didn't touch on an
Speaker 1: episode one is the response from everybody after everything went down,
Speaker 1: And there were several camps that I will touch on.
Speaker 1: I was moved by the crew. Many of the crew
Speaker 1: members that I've worked with for the better part of
Speaker 1: two decades reached out. A lot of them. Um, I
Speaker 1: definitely won't name those names because I know a lot
Speaker 1: of them still work there and I don't want to
Speaker 1: create any weird tension for them, but I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: The other interesting thing about the show, and I've said
Speaker 1: this in interviews before, this family and friends that I
Speaker 1: made over the nineteen years, and I'm talking about people
Speaker 1: that came on the show. They were either maybe the
Speaker 1: backs or bachelorette or cast members, and then after the show,
Speaker 1: often we would end up at events together, charity events,
Speaker 1: helping each other, supporting each other. Um, they would often
Speaker 1: call me because you know, being the bachelor bachelrette is
Speaker 1: a little bit like being shot out of a cannon
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, You're just going a thousand miles
Speaker 1: an hour. Nothing has really prepared you from going from
Speaker 1: you know zero, your life and wherever you're living too,
Speaker 1: you know, red carpets and everything that's thrown at you.
Speaker 1: And so I tried to help and counsels as best
Speaker 1: I could when they would reach out and needed it,
Speaker 1: and that those relationships grew. And now these families have
Speaker 1: grown and we have children that have been born and
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pride in that. And early on
Speaker 1: a lot of those people reached out. Some spoke out, um,
Speaker 1: you know, like a Catherine and Sean who I love
Speaker 1: and a Door very much. Um, you know, Ari and Lauren,
Speaker 1: Brad Walmac. It's tough when you start naming names. It's like,
Speaker 1: there's this I could go for miles of Tristan Ryan
Speaker 1: and JP and Ashley and Jaden Tanner and Jojo and
Speaker 1: Jordan who Lauren and I love so much, and Bob
Speaker 1: Guinney and Andrew Firestone, Been and Ashley. I know they're
Speaker 1: not a couple, but you know they do the podcast
Speaker 1: together and they actually spoke very highly and glowingly of
Speaker 1: of this announcement UM last month. And I appreciate Been
Speaker 1: and Ashley very much. And Andy Dorfman, I'm so happy
Speaker 1: she's found love. And um, Sarah Herron who's going to
Speaker 1: be a mom, and Leslie Murphy who is a mom,
Speaker 1: and and Tinley who and so you know, and even
Speaker 1: a guy like Jake Pavelka. Jake Pavelka reached out. Um,
Speaker 1: the guy who helped me coin the phrase everything is
Speaker 1: about to change. Um. Raven and Adam up there, Chris Souls,
Speaker 1: the miracle man Eric Bieger. Gotta mention him one of
Speaker 1: my favorite human beings to come through the show that spirit. Uh.
Speaker 1: He and I've had some great conversations, UM, since all
Speaker 1: of this went down, and I appreciate it. And even
Speaker 1: those that we're critical early on, I'm glad I've gotten
Speaker 1: to run into a lot of them. Mike Johnson was
Speaker 1: was one who was very critical, outspoken as soon as
Speaker 1: this happened, and understandably so. UM. And we ran into
Speaker 1: each other ironically in Vegas at an iHeart event and
Speaker 1: gave each other a big hug, had nothing but love
Speaker 1: and and he I very much appreciate. He reached out
Speaker 1: to me while we were sitting there and spending time
Speaker 1: together and just thank me for being kind of that
Speaker 1: big brother and always being there for him. And UM
Speaker 1: it was good too, not necessarily make amends because we
Speaker 1: never got sideways, but just to reconnect. And you know,
Speaker 1: Nick Vau was another one who Nick wasn't really uh
Speaker 1: strongly against me or said anything, but you know, I
Speaker 1: think Nick was one of those among many who probably
Speaker 1: saw the blood in the water and saw the opportunity
Speaker 1: of a job that would be really phenomenal, and no
Speaker 1: doubt he wanted that job. And but we saw each
Speaker 1: other at Wells and Sarah's wedding and gave each other
Speaker 1: big hugs. Saw Chris Souls there too. It was good
Speaker 1: to see Chris. And speaking of uh Wells and Sarah's wedding,
Speaker 1: which was phenomenal, a few bachelor people, a lot of
Speaker 1: modern family people. Um Wells has always been a very
Speaker 1: he First of all, he's a good man. He's a
Speaker 1: very good man and a good friend of mine. Um
Speaker 1: he'll never beat me on the golf course, but that's
Speaker 1: beside the point. He um Wells was in a very
Speaker 1: difficult situation because obviously he was still kind of connected
Speaker 1: to the show and he was doing stuff on Paradise.
Speaker 1: But he was one of the first to reach out
Speaker 1: to me and just said, hey, look, I'm I'm staying
Speaker 1: out of this. You know, I love you, respect you,
Speaker 1: and I appreciated that. I appreciated him because if anybody
Speaker 1: had sites on the job, it could easily was Wells,
Speaker 1: and deservedly so, by the way I I thought to
Speaker 1: be completely candid that Wells was going to get the job.
Speaker 1: I thought that was kind of the easiest call since
Speaker 1: Ken Jennings got the Jeopardy job. He's and the family,
Speaker 1: everybody loves him. It just seemed like a layup. But
Speaker 1: that's not how it went down. I even told him,
Speaker 1: I said, hey, man, I won't speak out publicly because
Speaker 1: I don't think that will help you at all. In fact,
Speaker 1: it would do a lot more harm than good. But
Speaker 1: I really hope you get the job. I think you'd
Speaker 1: be great at it. Just appreciate him and so many
Speaker 1: others that have reached out to me. UM, since that's happened,
Speaker 1: since I announced I was doing this podcast, it really
Speaker 1: has been heartwarming and it's been a wonderful connection for
Speaker 1: all of us to get back together. UM. There were
Speaker 1: there were a lot of others that reached out too
Speaker 1: that I found interesting. UM, whether it's celebrities, athletes, UM,
Speaker 1: a late night host. I really appreciated it, and it
Speaker 1: was just private text messages or phone calls, and it
Speaker 1: helped as Laura and I were navigating this and speaking
Speaker 1: of I think it's time for our first guest, the
Speaker 1: first guest ever in the history of the most dramatic
Speaker 1: podcast ever, and it has to be the one and
Speaker 1: only Lauren's Ema. This podcast is all about relationships. This
Speaker 1: is the most important relationship in my life and she
Speaker 1: was the only person with me every step of the
Speaker 1: way during this So when we return, Lauren and I
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about our experience and how this
Speaker 1: affected our relationship. That's next. Welcome back to the Most
Speaker 1: Dramatic podcast ever with Chris Harrison and I am here
Speaker 1: to welcome my very first guest, and it had to
Speaker 1: be this woman, three time Emmy winner. Don't laugh at that.
Speaker 1: I haven't done a podcast in a while, Well might
Speaker 1: as well do this one, Okay. On a scale of
Speaker 1: one to ten, one being the best. That is a
Speaker 1: day of organizing at the house, just watching Housewives, that's
Speaker 1: number one. Ten would be having to go to ten
Speaker 1: football games, So that's the scale Housewives to football. Ten
Speaker 1: is bad. Scale of one to How excited are you
Speaker 1: to sit down and have this conversation. I'm very excited
Speaker 1: to sit down and have the conversation, but I'm also
Speaker 1: very I would say that my nerves are at probably
Speaker 1: a tend. My hands are so sweaty, right, now because this,
Speaker 1: you know, you and I have so rarely done something
Speaker 1: like this where we're when whenever we're in a situation
Speaker 1: like this has happened a few times, it's always who's
Speaker 1: the interviewer and who's the interviewee, And we lose that
Speaker 1: a little bit because we both do it for a living.
Speaker 1: So sometimes we have a bit of a hard time
Speaker 1: finding our rhythm in these moments because we don't know.
Speaker 1: It's like dancing when you don't know who's leading. I
Speaker 1: I would agree with that. I will say if I'm
Speaker 1: guessing you as a listeners have never had the opportunity
Speaker 1: to interview an interviewee. Um, I'm probably a little more
Speaker 1: adept at it because I had that interviewing, no being interviewed,
Speaker 1: like giving turning the table. Yes, I'm usually in control
Speaker 1: of the moment when I'm hosting and whatever, but I've
Speaker 1: had the moment turned on me many of time, and
Speaker 1: in interviews. And that's how we actually met, was you
Speaker 1: interviewing me. And that's one of the things I fell
Speaker 1: in love with immediately, was how brilliant you were and
Speaker 1: what an amazing journalist and how good you were. Um,
Speaker 1: and then there was the rest but I I know
Speaker 1: you have a tough time being interviewed. I do. I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm so used to I had been. I mean I
Speaker 1: was at entertainment tonight for oh I think almost eight years,
Speaker 1: and before that, I was just another So I don't
Speaker 1: have been a journalist for well over a decade, and
Speaker 1: I've probably been interviewed myself less than five times. So, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm used to asking all the questions. When I was dating,
Speaker 1: I would always joke that, like, I would go on
Speaker 1: a really bad date in my mind, but the person
Speaker 1: would think it went really well. But that was just
Speaker 1: because I asked them a million questions because I'm in
Speaker 1: interview mode. Um. And then my friends really joke with
Speaker 1: me that, when you know, they asked me how are you,
Speaker 1: I always say I'm fine, I'm good, how are you?
Speaker 1: And I turn it back around on them. So I
Speaker 1: do sort of have a hard time talking about myself
Speaker 1: and being interviewed, and that's why my bombs are dripping. Also,
Speaker 1: I sound so horrible. I'm so sorry everybody. I'm kind
Speaker 1: of sick. I've been sick for a week. I've tested
Speaker 1: negative for COVID four times. But I just have a
Speaker 1: very bad um, you know, side dis infections, so blessings
Speaker 1: on this holiday season of illness and viral moments to
Speaker 1: look beautiful? Can you sound amazing? We haven't kissed in
Speaker 1: a week, and I appreciate I appreciate that. Um no,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you sitting down. And this is something I
Speaker 1: know that we have talked obviously a lot about everything,
Speaker 1: but one thing we really don't ever get into is
Speaker 1: how each other felt separately going through all this, and
Speaker 1: that one of the most painful things I said in
Speaker 1: episode one was affecting you and how this affected you,
Speaker 1: And that was easily one of the toughest things for
Speaker 1: me to watch, what was the effect on you? Initially,
Speaker 1: I think the hardest part was understanding it because I
Speaker 1: didn't feel like I was watching you. I know that
Speaker 1: wasn't you in that interview. I know that it wasn't
Speaker 1: the way you. You know, I felt the what what
Speaker 1: was being perceived was not how you felt in your heart,
Speaker 1: and I knew that, and so I was also just
Speaker 1: mad because I thought, how could you do this? How
Speaker 1: could you be so messy? How could you not see
Speaker 1: how you were sounding? But what I quickly realized is
Speaker 1: that everybody makes mistakes and to me the most including
Speaker 1: myself many times obviously, UM, And to me, the most
Speaker 1: important thing about a human is how is what their
Speaker 1: intention is and how they react after they make a mistake.
Speaker 1: And I knew that your intention in that interview was
Speaker 1: in no way malicious. I knew that your intention was
Speaker 1: to protect Matt at the time the Bachelor, Um, And
Speaker 1: after it happened, you were immediately so apologetic and so
Speaker 1: hard broken and you wanted to make everything right. So
Speaker 1: the hardest part is watching somebody who you love being
Speaker 1: so much pain and UM, knowing that you can't fix it,
Speaker 1: that there's nothing you can do. And we tried so
Speaker 1: many in so many ways to fix everything. Um, But
Speaker 1: that was the hardest part about it all for me.
Speaker 1: That was a very long answer, but a good one,
Speaker 1: was it? Yeah, Because I you know, I think one
Speaker 1: thing that is good to see and explain in a
Speaker 1: relationship when I think when people could see us or
Speaker 1: think about us, it's just this. You know, you never
Speaker 1: know what's going on inside someone's house. And this was
Speaker 1: not an easy thing to go through. We had, you know,
Speaker 1: we had just gone through the pandemic like everybody, and
Speaker 1: we became one of those pandemic couples of like, well,
Speaker 1: be together, a break up the pan you know, you're
Speaker 1: either living together or you're you're never thinking about breaking up.
Speaker 1: No, No No, I mean during the pandemic. You know, I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people you had to quarantine together
Speaker 1: or not. And so we were one of those couples
Speaker 1: that definitely in the pandemic, we quarantined together, we moved
Speaker 1: in together, and so we had just gone definitely accelerated
Speaker 1: our relationship. And so we went through that stressful time
Speaker 1: right into this um which was you thought the pandemic
Speaker 1: was stressful, this was, you know, tenfold, And so I
Speaker 1: don't ever want to give people the impression that you
Speaker 1: and I just breathed through this. It was very difficult,
Speaker 1: and yeah, we had arguments, We battled. Um. Lauren comes
Speaker 1: from a long line of lawyers, so they love to
Speaker 1: debate and they're very honest. But I appreciated that and
Speaker 1: I needed that because I think far too often you
Speaker 1: end up in an echo chamber, and that's how you
Speaker 1: get in trouble as you just surround yourself by yes men,
Speaker 1: yes women who just say exactly what you want to hear.
Speaker 1: But I have so many regrets about how I advised
Speaker 1: you at that time. UM. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 1: if I could have. I don't think I could have
Speaker 1: done a better job, because for me, you know, you'd
Speaker 1: been famous for almost twenty years, you know, fifteen years
Speaker 1: at least when we first started dating. UM. I I
Speaker 1: worked in entertainment tonight people. Some people knew me from
Speaker 1: my Bachelor recap show Roses and Rose that I started, UM,
Speaker 1: but I was not on the same level by any means,
Speaker 1: and I'd certainly never been through any type of scandal,
Speaker 1: so it was all very new to me, and it
Speaker 1: was a trial by fire of this unprecedented time in
Speaker 1: all of our lives. The stress of that and this
Speaker 1: added So I don't think I could have done a
Speaker 1: better job in advising you. I was just doing the
Speaker 1: best I could with information I had at the time.
Speaker 1: But I do have regrets about some of the things
Speaker 1: that I suggested, or the sounding board that I was
Speaker 1: at the time, what anything in particular, Um, you talked
Speaker 1: about asking your brother to take that letter down. I
Speaker 1: know that I advised you to have him take it down.
Speaker 1: I was coming from a place of worrying about what
Speaker 1: it would do to him, and I didn't want any
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I've said this to friends. This
Speaker 1: was not the saddest thing I've ever been through in
Speaker 1: my life. I I lost my dad when I was
Speaker 1: twenty two, my sister was nineteen, my brother was fourteen.
Speaker 1: That was really hard. It ripped my family apart, and
Speaker 1: it changed me forever as a person. Um. But this
Speaker 1: was the most stressful thing I've ever been through for sure. UM.
Speaker 1: I also have the perspective of at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I believe that if everybody you love is
Speaker 1: how healthy, then you are blessed. And we had well
Speaker 1: more than a roof over our heads, like we were okay.
Speaker 1: So I kept that perspective throughout everything. But it wasn't
Speaker 1: easy to have people d m n NG you two
Speaker 1: or me to die, um, to kill ourselves to uh
Speaker 1: that were horrible too. UM. You know, that was all
Speaker 1: really hard, and I was worried about that coming for
Speaker 1: your brother. So I but then to hear you, know,
Speaker 1: you say that you felt like asking him to take
Speaker 1: that down fundamentally affected you and made you question yourself. UM,
Speaker 1: it's hard to hear. I I look back on the
Speaker 1: statement that I put out at the time, and I
Speaker 1: wish I'd done it differently. There was a longer version
Speaker 1: of it where I said I know who Chris something
Speaker 1: like I know who Chris is as a person, and
Speaker 1: I know that he you know, did not mean to
Speaker 1: come across that way or I can't remember exactly what
Speaker 1: I said, But there was a longer version where I
Speaker 1: defended you more and I was advised. You talked a
Speaker 1: lot about being advised. I was advised cut that out,
Speaker 1: like keep it shorter, Just keep it short. You have
Speaker 1: to release a statement, so just get it out and
Speaker 1: keep it short. Um, because that's going to be better.
Speaker 1: It'll create less, less problems. Um. And I was a
Speaker 1: part of that conversation. Yeah, but I wish I hadn't.
Speaker 1: I know and and I know that, and I knew that,
Speaker 1: But also you said something that I firmly believe. And
Speaker 1: you and I say this all the time. You can
Speaker 1: only make the best decision in the moment with what
Speaker 1: you know in that moment and how you felt. We
Speaker 1: were making split second decisions. But I do think one
Speaker 1: takeaway I have the Molli's one thing I've learned is
Speaker 1: that you're not gonna make everybody happy. I wish I'd
Speaker 1: read less comments. I wish i'd you feel like you
Speaker 1: should be reading the comments and reading the coverage because
Speaker 1: you want to be aware of the situation. And also
Speaker 1: you know you're the viewers of the show are so
Speaker 1: important to you and to me too that we wanted
Speaker 1: to make sure we were trying to do right by
Speaker 1: people and to make things right. So we were trying
Speaker 1: to listen, um to everybody. But that also kind of
Speaker 1: messes with your head, and especially it's that thing of
Speaker 1: and I think everybody who's on social media knows this.
Speaker 1: You can hear ten nice things, but if one person
Speaker 1: tells you you're horrible or tells you to harm yourself,
Speaker 1: that hits you a lot harder. Um. So I wish
Speaker 1: that I hadn't listen to that as much, because I
Speaker 1: I maybe would have thought a bit clearer. Um. And
Speaker 1: the big takeaway is that you have to feel good,
Speaker 1: you have to feel good about who you are, and
Speaker 1: you have to thank Years from now, am I going
Speaker 1: to feel like what I did represented the person I
Speaker 1: want to be? So that was what I learned. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't think that that statement was full enough to
Speaker 1: represent who I am, and so I wish I had
Speaker 1: I had left those extra bits in no matter what
Speaker 1: ended up getting said, because like I said, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna make everybody happy. If you're try and please everybody,
Speaker 1: you end up please. Now we all see that all
Speaker 1: the time. I mean, mom could post a photo with
Speaker 1: her new baby and somebody's going to say, but where
Speaker 1: are your other kids? And um, then she could post
Speaker 1: a photo with her other kids and somebody will say, God,
Speaker 1: you're really exploiting your children. So there's nothing you can
Speaker 1: do to fully satisfy all. Just announcing this podcast. I
Speaker 1: didn't even really say anything announcing this podcast a month ago.
Speaker 1: There was people that had something to say, right because
Speaker 1: you have to, because what is the use of an
Speaker 1: article that says, hey, I'm really about this. I'm curious
Speaker 1: to hear what he's gonna say. You're never going to
Speaker 1: see that article in a tabloid or on a podcast
Speaker 1: or whatever. You well, that's not true, like Been and
Speaker 1: Ashley and people like that, who are actually good people
Speaker 1: like but it's not what exactly, it's not the click bait,
Speaker 1: it's not whatever. And so you know, the the vocal
Speaker 1: kind of minority that you see on social media or whatever,
Speaker 1: it is. It's easier said than done to ignore that
Speaker 1: and let it go because the majority of like once
Speaker 1: so we announced this and the people that the outpouring
Speaker 1: of love and support, and you know, as you've traveled around,
Speaker 1: we've traveled together, and so many people come up to
Speaker 1: us and we love that and and honestly, they usually
Speaker 1: pushed me aside just to get to Lauren's ema and
Speaker 1: I get that, um and I we've loved that and
Speaker 1: it meant a lot. Well. One of the first things
Speaker 1: I saw when we started dating. You told me very
Speaker 1: early on, because people might come up to you and
Speaker 1: ask for a photo when we were having dinner. I
Speaker 1: remember you telling me, I always take the time for
Speaker 1: every person who comes up to me, because I owe
Speaker 1: all of my success to these people. And you care
Speaker 1: about the fans and the viewers so much, UM, So
Speaker 1: you know, I I in part say that to say
Speaker 1: that was what made all this so hard, as you
Speaker 1: talked about in the first episode, was how much you
Speaker 1: love everybody and trying you and I trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what was the best way to go about reaching
Speaker 1: those people. And that's what was so difficult. We didn't
Speaker 1: have this podcast. I wish you know, good or bad.
Speaker 1: I think there is this new model that I saw.
Speaker 1: And it's not whether you agree with him or not.
Speaker 1: It's just what I saw when whether it was Joe
Speaker 1: Rogan or Dave Chappelle speak out when they were going
Speaker 1: through similar type things publicly, they had a platform, um.
Speaker 1: And I saw that, and I was like, damn, I
Speaker 1: wish I could rewind six months. This is what I
Speaker 1: would have done. I would have sat down here or
Speaker 1: with you and with you at home to have this
Speaker 1: conversation and to be able just to speak to you directly,
Speaker 1: because you're the ones I care about, You're the ones
Speaker 1: that matter. Well. I think you were caught in a
Speaker 1: perfect storm for going through a moment where you made
Speaker 1: a mistake. And by that, I mean you know, when
Speaker 1: somebody who has their own podcasts or their own show
Speaker 1: does it, they can take ownership of that, they can
Speaker 1: speak out. I mean, especially if they own that property.
Speaker 1: We were both advised to stay quiet. You were told
Speaker 1: to stay quiet, um. And what's so hard about that is,
Speaker 1: first of all, it's not genuine. You know, people were
Speaker 1: used to you talking to them, and so that made
Speaker 1: the whole thing even worse and more jarring. But I
Speaker 1: think the hardest part is that while you might think
Speaker 1: it's the right thing to stay quiet, what ends up
Speaker 1: happening is that other people feel that silence. Other people
Speaker 1: speak for you. And I think that very much happened
Speaker 1: and created a snowball that kept growing bigger and bigger
Speaker 1: and bigger until it was an avalanche. And you were
Speaker 1: also caught up in the perfect storm of, like you said,
Speaker 1: people who wanted your job, who had podcasts of their
Speaker 1: own though where they could speak out every week. Um,
Speaker 1: and the show is still having so many episodes to air,
Speaker 1: so the conversation kept getting brought up and brought up
Speaker 1: and brought up. I thought a lot about how you
Speaker 1: know somebody, You might be an actor who does something,
Speaker 1: their movie comes out, and maybe they say something bad
Speaker 1: in an interview, and then they can kind of go
Speaker 1: away for a while and come back and and do
Speaker 1: another movie later. Um. But this was being brought up
Speaker 1: over and over and over again, and I was on
Speaker 1: a nightly news show and we were covering it every night,
Speaker 1: and it um made me look at my own industry
Speaker 1: very differently too. I was very much on the other
Speaker 1: side of it. This is also all reminded me of
Speaker 1: how much gray area there is. Like there, as you've said,
Speaker 1: there are people at the show who used to love
Speaker 1: so much, there are people at the show who are
Speaker 1: very problematic still, and um, for me, you know, I
Speaker 1: look now at I always when I was covering the show.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I didn't try to find the dirt,
Speaker 1: because I did. It's part of the whole machine. But
Speaker 1: I never wanted to. I mean I always was running
Speaker 1: an article where I felt like it was well sourced,
Speaker 1: I had reported the truth. What I realized in seeing
Speaker 1: the coverage of this was that maybe, unfortunately, even when
Speaker 1: journalists might think they're reporting the truth, there are versions
Speaker 1: of the truth. It's not the whole truth I saw.
Speaker 1: I remember I saw one source source said that you
Speaker 1: were calling people begging for your job, and I know
Speaker 1: that that never happened. And I think maybe people see, um,
Speaker 1: maybe their sources and assistant who's heard half of a
Speaker 1: phone call from another room. And so the version that
Speaker 1: we get of the truth of what journalism is supposed
Speaker 1: to be the first draft of history gets pretty whittled
Speaker 1: and watered down. That was in this day and age.
Speaker 1: That's all it takes, right, One one article somebody says something,
Speaker 1: someone can write an article, and then someone else can
Speaker 1: write it. And so by the third article that that
Speaker 1: journalist and I hate to use that word and this
Speaker 1: in this particular instance, because they've done no work. They
Speaker 1: have not sourced anything much less have three of them,
Speaker 1: but they don't even have one. Their their source is
Speaker 1: another article. Um, that's not journalism, by the way, you
Speaker 1: cannot do that, but they do, and it it's what
Speaker 1: happens now, Um, you'll see the same article just kind
Speaker 1: of be regurgitated over and over and over. And for
Speaker 1: you and I to remain silent when we saw a
Speaker 1: lot of people would I mean, honestly, just flat outlie
Speaker 1: and they wanted to insert themselves in this story, and
Speaker 1: they would talk about things they didn't know about You
Speaker 1: and I remain silent. We did not speak. This is
Speaker 1: the first time that you and I have spoken at
Speaker 1: all about this publicly, and that, as I said in
Speaker 1: episode one, was a difficult thing for me, and I
Speaker 1: imagine it was just as difficult for you. Yes, Um,
Speaker 1: and I guess what's coming to my mind right now
Speaker 1: is something I haven't ever talked about, but which was
Speaker 1: ending my recap show. Roses and rose um, which was
Speaker 1: such a joy in my life for me. UM, how
Speaker 1: I felt about my job changed a lot after I
Speaker 1: stopped that because I realized that was really what I
Speaker 1: got so much happiness from. I wasn't ready to end
Speaker 1: that show. UM. One thing in looking at the interview
Speaker 1: and in seeing how you've been in the past year
Speaker 1: and a half since it's all been over, is I've
Speaker 1: realized how frustrated you were at work. UM. You know,
Speaker 1: I still want to and I can't really go back
Speaker 1: and watch that interview because just because it's it brings
Speaker 1: back so much. But I think one realization I've had
Speaker 1: is that you people felt like, oh, is this a
Speaker 1: side of him? I've just never seen. No what that
Speaker 1: was was. It wasn't the truth of you. It was
Speaker 1: a very frustrated, burnt out, tired version of you. UM.
Speaker 1: And you are so rarely that I Chris never gets mad,
Speaker 1: He doesn't uh really get sad. He You're the person
Speaker 1: who's always trying to be strong for everyone around you.
Speaker 1: Sometimes to the point of some of our conflict comes
Speaker 1: from me saying, but how do you like? You tell
Speaker 1: me your emotions? How do you feel? Are you upset?
Speaker 1: I mean you won't even tell me if you're sick. Um,
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm fine, I'm good. I'm like, are you
Speaker 1: because you're you've gotten out betting. I don't know. I'm good, okay. Um,
Speaker 1: But I think in that interview you were you know,
Speaker 1: you've been filming in Quarantine, You've had we've had stretches
Speaker 1: of I think three months where I didn't see you,
Speaker 1: we didn't see the kids, and some of that had
Speaker 1: been used against you. Um, I think it. I think
Speaker 1: it was purposely leaked that you left quarantine to move
Speaker 1: your son into college. And I know that that hurt you,
Speaker 1: that it was kind of, um, something that got weaponized
Speaker 1: against you, and you were just trying to be a
Speaker 1: good dad. I know you were so worried that this
Speaker 1: controversy was happening about around Rachel Kirkconnell and and you
Speaker 1: wanted her and Matt to not break up. You wanted
Speaker 1: Matt to be okay. You didn't want Matt to be
Speaker 1: going through all this. So all that frustration and exhaustion
Speaker 1: went into that interview, and I really saw that you
Speaker 1: were really tired of a lot. So there were many
Speaker 1: reasons that you were really frustrated going into that interview
Speaker 1: and being in that position again where you had to
Speaker 1: defend the show, where no one was helping you defend
Speaker 1: the show. No network executives were out there speaking out um,
Speaker 1: and there you were yet again. So I started. I
Speaker 1: started going on all this because I think I saw
Speaker 1: a very burnt out version of you. Part of my
Speaker 1: frustration with you, though, was that I I was mad
Speaker 1: that even though you were you know, I don't think
Speaker 1: I realized at the time how burnt out you were,
Speaker 1: but I was mad that you messed up in part
Speaker 1: because I wasn't quite as done yet. I was loving
Speaker 1: doing my show Roses and Rose. I was having fun,
Speaker 1: and um, when everything happened, I knew that I couldn't
Speaker 1: do that show anymore. Um. Ultimately the reason I decided
Speaker 1: not to do that show anymore. And I'm talking about
Speaker 1: it for the first time, and I I feel so
Speaker 1: bad because I've gotten so many wonderful messages from people
Speaker 1: saying I miss Roses and Rose. I missed laughing with
Speaker 1: you every week, and oh my gosh, that was what
Speaker 1: I loved about it. Whether it was about the Bachelor
Speaker 1: or something else, I just loved laughing with people every
Speaker 1: week and connecting with them and having fun and and
Speaker 1: feeling like maybe I gave them a bright spot in
Speaker 1: their week that made me happier than anything. But ultimately
Speaker 1: the reason I stopped doing that show. Um, I wasn't
Speaker 1: told by my job that I had to stop doing it.
Speaker 1: I stopped because I could not live with myself covering
Speaker 1: the franchise like that anymore. I couldn't celebrate it in
Speaker 1: the same way, knowing everything that I no, no, I
Speaker 1: know it was hard to find humor in it. And
Speaker 1: you talked about that before, long before he actually any
Speaker 1: of this happened. You said, it's getting harder and harder
Speaker 1: to find the love and humor in it anymore. It
Speaker 1: was getting harder to have fun with it. Yes, speaking
Speaker 1: of fun, let's take a quick break and come back
Speaker 1: and have fun more fun with Lauren's Ema right after this.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the most dramatic podcast ever. I am
Speaker 1: sitting here with my beautiful fiance, Lauren's Ema, and we
Speaker 1: have been talking for about the last half hour about
Speaker 1: one of the worst times in our lives. What couple
Speaker 1: does this? This is like therapy in a really horrible way.
Speaker 1: I can't believe you said before the break, We'll be
Speaker 1: back with more fun. I'm I'm this is we should
Speaker 1: do this fun. We should do this every night. We
Speaker 1: should sit down, open a bottle of wine and just
Speaker 1: rehash all of this every night. I really, I will
Speaker 1: say this just again from the bottom of my heart.
Speaker 1: I love you and I do honestly when even in
Speaker 1: losing my dad, I see silver linings that came out
Speaker 1: of that UM. As much as it ripped my family
Speaker 1: and I apart, it made me closer with them. It
Speaker 1: made us me a stronger person. It gave me perspective
Speaker 1: on life at a young age. And as hard as
Speaker 1: this has been, first of all, I understand that there
Speaker 1: are people. I'm oh, I feel grateful every night because
Speaker 1: there are people who have gone through so much worse
Speaker 1: than this. If whatever higher power there is said to me,
Speaker 1: do you want to go through all this again? Or
Speaker 1: do you want someone you love to be sick? Oh,
Speaker 1: my gosh, I would take this a million times over.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm fine with this UM. And a silver lining
Speaker 1: of it is that it really made me see your
Speaker 1: everything about who you are as a person. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you want to wait to know that you're with
Speaker 1: the right person, do you go through something traumatic and
Speaker 1: you see who they are and how they step up
Speaker 1: and what they do, and that shows you their true worth. No,
Speaker 1: this would have either broken a couple up or or
Speaker 1: brings you more together. And i've i've I said an
Speaker 1: episode one, I I love and adore you and admire
Speaker 1: you even more than I did before. And you know,
Speaker 1: my grandmother, my my late great Jewish grandmother, uh Mimi,
Speaker 1: always said to me, find somebody, surround yourself with people
Speaker 1: who are equal or better than you, And that's Lauren's ema.
Speaker 1: And thank you for saying my last name every time.
Speaker 1: Um let me get married out by the way, I
Speaker 1: you know what people always say, Oh do you know
Speaker 1: people call you Chris Harrison? That actually does happen. I
Speaker 1: don't call Lauren Lauren zo. I don't even call you Lauren.
Speaker 1: I call you l z usually um so l z
Speaker 1: uh name. And when we get married, I'm not changing it. No,
Speaker 1: I'm changing mine, c z um. But it definitely brought
Speaker 1: us closer together because you will find out what people
Speaker 1: are made of in these moments in life, and that
Speaker 1: is a blessing. And as I said an episode one,
Speaker 1: it doesn't come in a beautiful little you know box
Speaker 1: under the tree. It's it's sometimes slapships side the head,
Speaker 1: and that's what it was for us. But the bond
Speaker 1: we built and how and I know we both go
Speaker 1: back and said, oh, we could have done this, we
Speaker 1: could have done this, we should have done this. You know,
Speaker 1: you you can play Monday morning quarterback all throughout your life.
Speaker 1: You especially do it in moments like this when everything
Speaker 1: is under a microscope on such a grand scale, and
Speaker 1: we do you still go back if if you're a
Speaker 1: you know, intelligent person, you thinkack of like, you know,
Speaker 1: I could have navigated this better. I could have done this, um.
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, we made decisions
Speaker 1: together and we stuck with them. You know. For example,
Speaker 1: I quit watching TV, I quit reading stuff I wasn't
Speaker 1: looking into that. You were the filter. You were dealing
Speaker 1: with it in entertainment tonight, and so you kind of
Speaker 1: let me know, hey, this person speaking out about you.
Speaker 1: This person, and you kind of let me know what
Speaker 1: I needed to hear because it was drinking from a
Speaker 1: fire hydrant and you were able to kind of brush
Speaker 1: that away and kind of help me drink from a
Speaker 1: water fountain, which was a lot more palatable, and so
Speaker 1: there were things that both of us did in any relationship.
Speaker 1: And again this this pod will move on, it will
Speaker 1: be fun. It's going to evolve into amazing things about relationships.
Speaker 1: And one thing you will always learn in a relationship
Speaker 1: is it's not always you know, no pun intended fantasy
Speaker 1: suites and hot air balloon rides. It's tough, and you
Speaker 1: go through these moments and at times you are the
Speaker 1: weak one, at times you are the strength, at times
Speaker 1: you're carrying the weight of two and at times you
Speaker 1: are you know, a mush and a mess. And so
Speaker 1: at times all throughout the day, Lauren and I would
Speaker 1: switch those positions were you were. You were the caretaker
Speaker 1: and then you were this and so we had to
Speaker 1: be there for each other and it forced us to
Speaker 1: build a bond that is unbelievable and I'm grateful for that.
Speaker 1: As you said, it's the silver lining. But one thing
Speaker 1: I think made me fall in love with you even
Speaker 1: more was that you never I mean I in all this,
Speaker 1: there were moments when I was worried about myself and
Speaker 1: my career, and like I said, I was mad at you.
Speaker 1: I don't think you were ever worried about yourself. I
Speaker 1: never heard you say my career, my future. You were
Speaker 1: so upset with yourself, so beside yourself. Um, watching you
Speaker 1: not eat and not sleep was really hard. And again
Speaker 1: because I couldn't fix it. Um, but you put you
Speaker 1: were always worried about your family. I mean maybe just
Speaker 1: being able to provide for everybody. Um. And what I
Speaker 1: heard you say over and over again, and I think
Speaker 1: sometimes to your detriment, you didn't like worry about how
Speaker 1: you were coming across as you were trying to do
Speaker 1: right by the show. And that was because you were
Speaker 1: worried about the crew, the producers, the I don't know
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty people who work on it. And
Speaker 1: you were so worried about the show staying alive because
Speaker 1: you didn't want any of those people who you knew
Speaker 1: and loved to be in any kind of financial jeopardy. Um.
Speaker 1: So you were. And I'm thinking about the g M
Speaker 1: a interviewer. We'll get there someday. But look to your point,
Speaker 1: you were you were putting the show above yourself, and UM,
Speaker 1: that made me fall in love with you even more because, Uh,
Speaker 1: it was very hard to watch you be defined by
Speaker 1: this one thing. I don't think anybody again, we're all
Speaker 1: gonna make mistakes, and I don't think that anyone deserves
Speaker 1: to be to have their entire life defined by one
Speaker 1: moment um, especially when they're sorry and they messed up
Speaker 1: and they know it. Um. If we don't have redemption,
Speaker 1: then what are we all doing? Um? And I think
Speaker 1: the problem is that, you know, you were somebody who
Speaker 1: really like, in terms of your personal life, stayed out
Speaker 1: of headlines for the most part over those twenty years.
Speaker 1: You You know, there are celebrities who are constantly involved
Speaker 1: in scandals and drama and then they like to stay
Speaker 1: in the headlines and it's part of their career and
Speaker 1: you really didn't do that. Um. And a lot of
Speaker 1: the good things you did as a journalist, I can
Speaker 1: tell you don't make for very interesting headlines. Hey, he's
Speaker 1: a dad who's coaching his kids soccer team. There's a
Speaker 1: good headline. The beauty of my life is that this
Speaker 1: doesn't define me whatsoever. If it defines me to you,
Speaker 1: that's on you. That's not on me and my life.
Speaker 1: And this is what helped me leave the franchise and
Speaker 1: leave the show is because I've never defined myself by that.
Speaker 1: I was proud of it. It was something I did.
Speaker 1: It's something I spent a large part of my professional
Speaker 1: life building and doing, and that was awesome. But I've
Speaker 1: never defined myself by that. I've always defined myself by
Speaker 1: what's important. And I preach this to my kids. I
Speaker 1: preach it to you. What's important, who's important, you know,
Speaker 1: my family, my friends, my faith, the things that I
Speaker 1: lean on, the things that I truly care about. That
Speaker 1: is the character of a man or one, and that's
Speaker 1: what defines you. And so if you take away a
Speaker 1: job and it was a profession, it was something like
Speaker 1: a career. I loved it and I still love it.
Speaker 1: I love TV. I left producing, I love creating, So
Speaker 1: that part was neat. But you know, I didn't wake
Speaker 1: up and go I'm Chris Harrison, Bachelor host. I'm I
Speaker 1: would much more say I'm you know, Elsie's fiance and
Speaker 1: father of two and friend to many, like That's That's
Speaker 1: what I'm proud of. And at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I know, when I'm lying on my deathbed, um, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to be thinking about rose ceremonies or anything
Speaker 1: I did on the show. I'll be, you know, hopefully
Speaker 1: surrounded by those that I love. UM, I was gonna
Speaker 1: say something crude there and I won't, but don't you
Speaker 1: say anybody. God, I know you know business is personal.
Speaker 1: Our jobs are personal, and because we're passionate about our careers,
Speaker 1: they take up a lot of our time. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know that the show, especially when you're dealing with
Speaker 1: the arts and this is kind of in that vein
Speaker 1: of your life is in it, right, your heart's in
Speaker 1: that when you are yes a part of it, it's
Speaker 1: more than a job. And the show for you was
Speaker 1: time away from your kids. I mean, one thing that's
Speaker 1: been again a silver lining about the past year and
Speaker 1: a half is you got to go to you know,
Speaker 1: your daughter Taylor's senior musical. You've never gotten to go
Speaker 1: to a play. Um, you'd had you would have to
Speaker 1: go and watch a rehearsal, and you know that was
Speaker 1: how you'd like, go see a rehearsal and get to
Speaker 1: see it. But you know, when the actual show was
Speaker 1: you were off filming. UM. And I know you give
Speaker 1: everything to your kids and they love you so much
Speaker 1: and you're such a great dad, but your work was
Speaker 1: still time away from them. And so in the past
Speaker 1: year to see you be able to go to Josh's
Speaker 1: lacrosse games when you want, and go see Taylor's plays
Speaker 1: and go visit them at college. Um has been You're
Speaker 1: very You're You're much happier to me. One of the
Speaker 1: great things about being the host and being a part
Speaker 1: of that franchise for so long is when people come
Speaker 1: up to us, they'll have these amazing stories about the
Speaker 1: only time I talk to my you know, mom, or
Speaker 1: my daughter or I connect with my dad is on
Speaker 1: Monday nights. And we watched the show and we talk
Speaker 1: about it and we call each other on Tuesday mornings.
Speaker 1: Lorna and I were just at the airport here in
Speaker 1: Austin and we were flying somewhere on where we were
Speaker 1: going and she went off to get something and I
Speaker 1: was sitting there by myself and this guy came up
Speaker 1: to me. I kind of saw him, you know, staring
Speaker 1: at mean, you kind of notice you get that kind
Speaker 1: of weird radar and uh. And he came up and
Speaker 1: he's like, you know, Chris Harrison, do you mind if
Speaker 1: I have to see usaid, sure, you know how you doing?
Speaker 1: And nice guy and he tells me this story about
Speaker 1: and I noticed he has a picture of this girl
Speaker 1: on his shirt and he says, Hey, this is my
Speaker 1: daughter and she just passed away. And just so you know,
Speaker 1: she was sick for quite some time and on Monday
Speaker 1: nights we would all gather and we would watch The Bachelor,
Speaker 1: and that was our connection and that's how that's how
Speaker 1: we escaped, and that's how she escaped. And it was
Speaker 1: a couple hours of sanity, escapism, and relief from what
Speaker 1: she was going through. And he said, I just want
Speaker 1: to thank you, and that was it, and I will
Speaker 1: end on this today because if nothing else ever came
Speaker 1: from my silly job this show, that is what I
Speaker 1: did it for. And I hear those stories all the time,
Speaker 1: and that's what touched me. And that's why I'm so
Speaker 1: grateful for all of you, and I'm grateful that you
Speaker 1: took the time to listen today. And I'm unbelievably grateful
Speaker 1: for this beautiful woman sitting next to me, Lauren's ema.
Speaker 1: I love you, um who has the Emmy one of
Speaker 1: the three sitting over her head. Um. But I am
Speaker 1: so grateful and thank you for sharing. I know this
Speaker 1: is something you have not been looking forward to. I
Speaker 1: appreciate your time and your love and your support and
Speaker 1: for all of you again, thank you. And next week,
Speaker 1: next episode, we're gonna this might be a big mistake.
Speaker 1: I want to hear from you, all of you, so
Speaker 1: leave your comments below. On your podcast network, you can
Speaker 1: reach us on Instagram, UM the most dramatic pod ever
Speaker 1: is our handle, the most dramatic pod ever. UM. You
Speaker 1: can reach me on my Instagram as always, leave me comments, questions,
Speaker 1: the good, the bad, the ugly. As I said before,
Speaker 1: in this episode, this is not about sitting in an
Speaker 1: echo chamber. This is not about hearing your own voice
Speaker 1: and having your ideas repeated to you. That is not helpful.
Speaker 1: That's never been helpful, and I've never wanted that, nor
Speaker 1: should you. And so let's get into it. Thank you
Speaker 1: for listening. I'll see you next time time because we
Speaker 1: have a lot more to talk about.