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Speaker 1: All right, bad Leban's going to join us in a moment.

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Speaker 1: He's already checked in, so we'll get ready for him

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Speaker 1: coming up. We have a lot to cover with the

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Speaker 1: Minnesota Twinkies.

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Speaker 2: When did he leave Minnesota? Got a look?

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Speaker 1: I mean in the past six months or so, you

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Speaker 1: can ask him about he's live, he's with us. Bad

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Speaker 1: Lebin joining us. So hired by the Twins as SVP

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Speaker 1: and GM in November twenty sixteen. Has a podcast called

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Speaker 1: Rosters to Rings that you should check out and that

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Speaker 1: AJ just asked, when officially did you leave? So we

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Speaker 1: can do the chronological order of the career in our head.

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Speaker 3: I left after last season, so this is my first

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Speaker 3: season of being a free agent sabbatical. I've and joined

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Speaker 3: the heck out of it.

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Speaker 2: Oh I love that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I want to start with the juice here,

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Speaker 1: and I appreciate the time. The Twins are super popular

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Speaker 1: right now over this last week they are selling. I

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Speaker 1: know they've been competitive for a long period of time.

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Speaker 1: They're going to take a step back right now. What

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Speaker 1: have you seen? Just you're a free agent, you're on

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Speaker 1: the outside, but you were in the thick with all

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Speaker 1: of these players for a long period of time. Most

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Speaker 1: of the guys moving you acquired. What do you think

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Speaker 1: of what they've done so far?

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Speaker 3: You know, I think we went into the season or

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Speaker 3: they went into the season. I probably shouldn't say we and.

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Speaker 2: We, well, we sorry about that.

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Speaker 4: Agent.

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Speaker 3: First of all, I should say this, like Scott, you

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Speaker 3: do a great job as a point guard on the show.

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Speaker 3: A tremendous watching you guys and Eric. You and I

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Speaker 3: never crossed paths, but I always heard exceptional things about

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Speaker 3: your chemistry, your culture, and your makeup.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you that I really appreciate that, and

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Speaker 1: obviously great to have you on here for the first time.

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Speaker 4: Miss Oh.

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Speaker 1: He said, I hate the white socks. That's what he said.

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Speaker 2: That's what he said. We're going to get into our

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Speaker 2: history later. Let's focus on trade. First.

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Speaker 4: He say something nice about you.

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Speaker 1: First, he's got something.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I also wanted to apologize for AJ when I

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Speaker 3: worked for Texas before you were with Texas. I think

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Speaker 3: Vicente hit you every time we played, and he should

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Speaker 3: have apologized to you. But I'm certainly apologizing to you

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Speaker 3: today for that.

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, every time he didn't hit me, I

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Speaker 5: went deep off of him, So it was either hit

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Speaker 5: me or I was hitting a homer, So I can't.

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Speaker 2: I know, you have to choose one or the other.

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Speaker 3: I think the man had a little funny stuff in

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Speaker 3: his hair that he may have used as an excuse

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Speaker 3: for the ball slipping from time to time.

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Speaker 5: I know he hit me twice in one game one time,

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Speaker 5: and Hawk went down allegedly into the clubhouse after him.

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Speaker 2: No security wouldn't let him in there. So yes, certain.

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Speaker 3: Slightly funny story about him was that Kevin Millwood at

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Speaker 3: one point said if he had his spikes on in

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Speaker 3: the dugout he hit Kurt Suzuki when he was playing

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Speaker 3: for the A's. He said he would have charged the

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Speaker 3: mound to fight Pitty at that point, which would have

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Speaker 3: been epic to have your own teammate charge the mound

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Speaker 3: to fight.

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Speaker 2: You about let me put my GM quarter zip on.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well while you do it so that we don't.

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Speaker 3: Mess up, tell you so I get getting back to

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Speaker 3: to your actual question. You know, I think that the

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Speaker 3: team went into the season with high expectations. They were

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Speaker 3: hoping to contend and compete in the American League Central.

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Speaker 3: The season hasn't gone quite to plan. I think they

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Speaker 3: took a bold step here because they're still within fighting

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Speaker 3: distance of the wild card. But they made an executive

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Speaker 3: call here, which is they didn't want to straddle the fence.

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Speaker 3: And I think from an executive standpoint, you always aspire

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Speaker 3: to do one of two things. One is you're trying

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Speaker 3: to build for the today. You know, to try to

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Speaker 3: win today, and so you're buying, or you're trying to

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Speaker 3: sell and try to win tomorrow. I think the toughest

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Speaker 3: spot to be is that when you feel like you're

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Speaker 3: standing still, because when you're standing still, I think people

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Speaker 3: are running past you. So I give them a ton

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Speaker 3: of credit. They're making real moves here, and I think

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Speaker 3: the plan, originally, i'm sure, was to really focus on

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Speaker 3: the guys who had expiring contracts with them, But as

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Speaker 3: they made their calls, my guess is that that there

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Speaker 3: was a lot of interest expressed in other players, and

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Speaker 3: you've seen them trade two of them. Rock Stewart was

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Speaker 3: traded very recently to the Dodgers. He has controlled beyond

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Speaker 3: this year. And the bigger deal, of course, was John Durant,

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Speaker 3: who they traded who has controlled through twenty twenty seven.

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Speaker 3: Those deals usually take place because you may be calling

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Speaker 3: another team and saying, hey, listen, we're open to talking

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Speaker 3: about some of our guys with expiring contracts, and you

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Speaker 3: know they have a few of those guys if you

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Speaker 3: left to trade, probably Danny Coolom, Willie Castroid. Keep an

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Speaker 3: eye on those two guys, for sure. But then Dave

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Speaker 3: Dombrowski comes in calls and really gets aggressive on Joe

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Speaker 3: on Duran. I don't know because I'm not there, but

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Speaker 3: I do wonder if the unfortunate news that we heard

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Speaker 3: about Emmanuel Klasse the other day. I'm sure that only

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Speaker 3: intensified the interest in Joe on Duran. They probably didn't

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Speaker 3: start this process with the intent of trading Joe on Durant.

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Speaker 3: They probably weren't necessarily shopping him around, but I think

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Speaker 3: teams started calling, they got super aggressive, and they got

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Speaker 3: to a point where they required two top one hundred

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Speaker 3: prospects for him, and I think that was just so

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Speaker 3: far above the bar that they decided to press go.

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Speaker 3: So I give him a lot of credit for, you know,

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Speaker 3: not straddling the that's the easiest thing to do, I

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Speaker 3: think would be to stand still and try to stay

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Speaker 3: in this thing. I think they're making active steps to

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Speaker 3: trying to help the team and then not so just

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Speaker 3: at future. I would expect that they're going to hold

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Speaker 3: on to most of the guys they could control beyond

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Speaker 3: this year because I think they'll try to contend again

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Speaker 3: as soon as next season.

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Speaker 5: Okay, well, then the next question is how good are

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Speaker 5: the prospects are getting back?

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Speaker 2: And if I.

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Speaker 5: Mean the Twins, listen, we know my feelings on the Twins.

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Speaker 5: I love my time in Minnesota and I love what

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Speaker 5: the Twins do well. I've always said that, but the

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Speaker 5: Twins the last couple of years have kind of been

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Speaker 5: the favorites to win this division. You were there for

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Speaker 5: a couple last year, especially when it didn't happen. So

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Speaker 5: why are they doing this now? And how good are

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Speaker 5: the guys they are getting back and can they help

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Speaker 5: them soon in the future to help Twins fans stop

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Speaker 5: crying about how they never do anything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and aj, I think we all have to be

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Speaker 3: accountable to the decisions we made and the impact on

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Speaker 3: the franchise. And I think you nailed it. You know,

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Speaker 3: each of the last three seasons, the Twins were preseason

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Speaker 3: picked to win the division, not by a huge margin,

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Speaker 3: but they were picked to be the favorite in the division.

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Speaker 3: They'll end up winning the division once. Last year, as

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Speaker 3: you referenced, unfortunately, there was a really a bad end

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Speaker 3: of the season. It was an epic decline. I think

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Speaker 3: at some point in the season we had prohibitive favorites

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Speaker 3: to make the playoffs and the team ultimately fell short

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Speaker 3: of that, and then this season again fell short. And

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Speaker 3: so I think you've got to really look yourself in

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Speaker 3: the mirror and say, maybe the best laid plans here

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Speaker 3: haven't worked out, and so the current constitution of this

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Speaker 3: roster isn't taking us where we need to go. We

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Speaker 3: have to look ourselves in the mirror. We have to

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Speaker 3: hold ourselves accountable to that. We've got to make decisions

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Speaker 3: that change rather than continue to do the same thing

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Speaker 3: and expect some different outcomes. So, you know, I think

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Speaker 3: a lot is made with the Twins about the fact

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Speaker 3: that three of the most talented players on the team

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Speaker 3: have unfortunately been snake bit with some injuries over.

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Speaker 4: Their careers, Royce Lewis, Carlos Korey.

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Speaker 3: And Byron Buxton. And you know, I think a lot

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of levied criticism against us about Hey,

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Speaker 3: how do you build a team around three guys that

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Speaker 3: you just don't know are going to be on the

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Speaker 3: field as much. It wasn't like that was plan a

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Speaker 3: that we were planning on taking on such extreme health risk.

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Speaker 3: I think the only one of.

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Speaker 4: Those three guys who really we knew.

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Speaker 3: Had significant health risk was Byron. The other two guys

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Speaker 3: kind of it's somewhat manifested after we invested in them.

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Speaker 3: But by the same token, they have tremendous upside talent.

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Speaker 3: But nonetheless, here's where the franchise is, which is in

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Speaker 3: three consecutive years, they had probably slightly higher expectations in

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Speaker 3: what were meant two years ago. They ended up winning

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Speaker 3: a playoff series at home, which was really important for

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Speaker 3: the franchise after losing as many playoff games in a

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Speaker 3: row as they had. But they have fallen short and aggregate,

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Speaker 3: and so they're making changes. They're making substantive changes. How

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Speaker 3: good those players are who they've acquired, you know, I

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Speaker 3: think I'm sure that the scouts would tell you that

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Speaker 3: they're great. I do know that a lot of them

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Speaker 3: are pretty young, so they're going to be a couple

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Speaker 3: of years away. The farm system itself is a very

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Speaker 3: solid farm system, so it's adding to that and maybe

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Speaker 3: giving them opportunities to spend some of that prospect capital

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Speaker 3: to go buy and buy as soon as this offseason potentially.

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Speaker 3: But you know, another factor involved with the Twins right

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Speaker 3: now is that they're up for sale, and so I'm

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Speaker 3: not sure how much pressure is being levied behind closed

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Speaker 3: doors right now that could be impacting some of these

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Speaker 3: decisions about getting a little bit more aggressive about selling

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Speaker 3: today just due to the fact that the team's up

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Speaker 3: for sale. That's something I don't know, But those are

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Speaker 3: things that you know, the GM and the President of

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Speaker 3: Baseball Operations over there would never say publicly, but those

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Speaker 3: are things that we had to deal with. You know,

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Speaker 3: when you're in those seats, those are some of the

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Speaker 3: pressures and factors that go into some of your decisions

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Speaker 3: that you wouldn't have otherwise expected when.

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Speaker 6: You're sitting in that GMC, when you're sitting there and

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Speaker 6: there's discussions about building your team, whether it's analytically, I

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Speaker 6: like this guy for the clubhouse, Roco has a connection.

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Speaker 6: Are the words world series discussed or the world? Are

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Speaker 6: the words playoffs? Because the al Central is kind of

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Speaker 6: mess so we're just going to make sure we get

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Speaker 6: a little bit better than everybody else to make the playoffs,

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Speaker 6: and then hey, see what happens.

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Speaker 3: Eric, I think it's a great philosophical question about how

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Speaker 3: we approach decision making because I remember, you know, you

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Speaker 3: would always do these offseason speaking engagements at the local

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Speaker 3: Kiwanis club or whatever, and they'd say how many games

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Speaker 3: are your team going to win? And I would always

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Speaker 3: answer it, our goal is to win at least one

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Speaker 3: more than the team in second place, because we wanted

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Speaker 3: to win our division. We wanted to somewhat control our

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Speaker 3: own destiny. Especially with today's playoff format, you want to

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Speaker 3: play home playoff games. But I'm not sure I've ever

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Speaker 3: perfectly subscribed to the theory that once you get to

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Speaker 3: the playoffs anything can happen. You know, I think you

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Speaker 3: need to be very talented. I think you need to

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Speaker 3: be healthy. I do think you need to be a

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Speaker 3: little bit lucky at times when you're playing in the playoffs,

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Speaker 3: because at that point every team is exceptionally talented. But

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Speaker 3: I don't think you want to walk into the playoffs

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Speaker 3: as the least talented group and expect great outcomes. So

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Speaker 3: I would say that philosophically, I wanted to win, you know.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be in the in an opportunity to

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Speaker 3: win and to prevail and to be a prohibitive favorite

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Speaker 3: when it came to the playoffs. I always felt like

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Speaker 3: the best time to make a sign magnificant acquisition at

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Speaker 3: the deadline was when you were going to win your division,

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Speaker 3: and now you're setting your team up to succeed and

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Speaker 3: excel and extend a playoff front. I don't want to

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Speaker 3: try to buy my way into the playoffs and limp

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Speaker 3: in and have a chance to maybe get knocked out

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Speaker 3: in the first round. When it says ninety percent playoff

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Speaker 3: chances next to my team's name come July thirty, first,

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Speaker 3: I want to add a stud to that group so

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Speaker 3: that we can really vault our chances forward to win

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Speaker 3: when we're in the playoffs and ultimately get a chance

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Speaker 3: to play in the World Series. So that would be

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Speaker 3: the approach I would want to take. I do understand

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Speaker 3: the theory about, hey, once you get in the playoffs,

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Speaker 3: anything can happen. You do sometimes see teams you know

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Speaker 3: extend themselves in the playoffs who maybe weren't quite as talented,

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Speaker 3: and you all of sudden find them. Maybe in the

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Speaker 3: World Series, but more often than not, the best teams

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Speaker 3: are winning once they get in the playoffs. I want

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Speaker 3: to be the general manager of the team that is

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Speaker 3: the most talented.

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Speaker 2: All right, I have two questions Forere you have to

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Speaker 2: let you go.

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Speaker 5: One, How handicapped were you the last two seasons because

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Speaker 5: by the ownership with the Twins? Because twenty three you

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Speaker 5: guys did nothing, still won the division, won your first

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Speaker 5: playoff series in Forever. Last year, again you guys did nothing,

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Speaker 5: and I hate to say this, but kind of collapse

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Speaker 5: at the end after having a ninety percent chance to

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Speaker 5: make the playoffs. How handicapped were you? Because you said,

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Speaker 5: if you're a ninety percent chance, you want to make

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Speaker 5: the big move. You guys did nothing. How handicapped are you?

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Speaker 5: Buy ownership?

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Speaker 3: So you know, I was told rumors that if you

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Speaker 3: come on the show that AJ asked tough questions.

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Speaker 2: Oh wait till the next one, Wait till the next one.

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Speaker 4: Is the next one about the idea? Is there anything

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Speaker 4: to do about Padita on the horizon? No?

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Speaker 3: No, the quartership is bringing out the best in you

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Speaker 3: here on the on the executive side of things. So hey, listen.

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Speaker 3: I think I'm going to answer this as diplomatically but

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Speaker 3: as also insightfully as I can, which is to say,

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Speaker 3: when you enter a season, typically ownership gives you very

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Speaker 3: clear understanding of what the payroll parameters are going to

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Speaker 3: be for the season. It's then somewhat up to the

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Speaker 3: front office group to determine how much do we want

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Speaker 3: to leave in reserve for the trade deadline in the

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Speaker 3: event that we're winning and we can add players. Now,

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Speaker 3: the hope always is that if the team's doing well,

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Speaker 3: you're going to be drawing attendance, maybe beyond what your

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Speaker 3: expectations were, and maybe you'll have more money to spend

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Speaker 3: than you even thought you would. You know, one thing

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Speaker 3: that has happened in this marketplace is attendance hasn't necessarily climbed.

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Speaker 3: It hasn't even necessarily held over the last couple of years,

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Speaker 3: for reasons I'm not perfectly sure I can put my

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Speaker 3: finger on. You know, I think we're far enough removed

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Speaker 3: hopefully from COVID and the George Floyd incident, but there's still,

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Speaker 3: you know, like a lack of resurgence of fan interest

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Speaker 3: downtown to watch our games. So the revenue probably wasn't

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Speaker 3: exactly what was projected. It left us at the trade

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Speaker 3: deadline probably being a little bit more conservative.

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Speaker 4: Than we otherwise would have been.

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Speaker 3: But I also thinks there's a responsibility of honestly assessing

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Speaker 3: where your team is and are you really poised to

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Speaker 3: strike in the postseason, versus whether or not that you

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Speaker 3: are that genuine one move away. I think we both

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Speaker 3: did determined we didn't have the resources to necessarily make

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Speaker 3: that move, but also that it wasn't necessarily the time

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Speaker 3: to really push ownership into an uncomfortable position based upon

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Speaker 3: our projections of how the team.

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Speaker 4: Would do if it got into the playoffs at that time.

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Speaker 2: Okay, the last one before you go.

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Speaker 5: First of all, I think you should be in the

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Speaker 5: game because I think you're good at your job, But

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Speaker 5: you have one made. You've made one huge mistake in

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Speaker 5: your career, and it wasn't bringing me back to Texas

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Speaker 5: in twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 2: So listen, we all can't be perfect.

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Speaker 5: We all have our one miss and that was you

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Speaker 5: not bringing me back in twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why, I don't care why, but that

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Speaker 2: was your mistake.

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Speaker 5: Then.

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Speaker 3: Well, so AJL, I will say this one thing, We

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Speaker 3: didn't know when we didn't bring you back, was that

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Speaker 3: you were going to curse us, because I'm sure you

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Speaker 3: didn't follow the twenty fourteen Rangers, but we led the

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Speaker 3: major leagues and days on the AL we had, I

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Speaker 3: think twenty one hundred days on the AL as a

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Speaker 3: roster group. So I don't know what type of voodoo

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Speaker 3: dolls you had somewhere, but you were sticking a lot

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Speaker 3: of pins in and it was it worked against us dramatically.

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Speaker 4: You know what, one thing, Age, I've been listening to

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Speaker 4: your show pretty religiously over the last week or so,

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Speaker 4: just because I find you guys very informative and you

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Speaker 4: bring a great insight from a player's perspective, and you know,

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Speaker 4: as I said, Scott, I think asked a ton of

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Speaker 4: great questions, has great insight for both you and Eric

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Speaker 4: and some of the crew you bring on.

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Speaker 2: One thing that I.

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Speaker 3: Thought you guys were talking about the other day that

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Speaker 3: I just wanted to comment on, was, you know, I

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Speaker 3: do think the way negotiations have taken place have changed

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Speaker 3: in my tenure, and one of the biggest changes was,

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Speaker 3: you know, when Aja, you guys, you and Eric started

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Speaker 3: your career, the average general manager was a little bit

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Speaker 3: more like Kevin Towers and Jim Hendry and Omar and

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Speaker 3: I and guys like that. They were very open when

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Speaker 3: you called them. They would tell you exactly what they

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Speaker 3: were looking for, exactly what they were prepared to do

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Speaker 3: to acquire those players, and they were pretty damn aggressive.

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Speaker 3: Today's GM is a little bit different, you know. Negotiations

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Speaker 3: have changed dramatically now. I think you have to assess

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Speaker 3: is somebody seeking the best deal they can get, and

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Speaker 3: when they do that, they tend not to share a

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Speaker 3: lot of information with you. They have a long list

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Speaker 3: of players that could satisfy their needs, are very judicious

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Speaker 3: about it versus the GM who's hunting a good player.

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Speaker 3: And that's the guy who gets on the phone with you.

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Speaker 3: It's Dave Dombrowski and he says, he I want John

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Speaker 3: duranm That's who I want. What does it take to

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Speaker 3: get him? And he's going to negotiate with you until

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Speaker 3: he gets the player. It's just changed very dramatically, and

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Speaker 3: I think it ties into the question you just asked me,

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Speaker 3: Aja about how much you go for it at the deadline.

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Speaker 3: I'm looking at some of the teams out there right now,

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Speaker 3: and saying, you know, are they taking aggressive steps towards

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Speaker 3: winning or are they taking steps towards just making prudent

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Speaker 3: trades that won't hurt them in the future. I think

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Speaker 3: now's the time. If you have the talent, if you

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Speaker 3: have the odds, it's time to go for it rather

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Speaker 3: than necessarily making just prudent moves that help you on

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Speaker 3: the margins. You want guys who can help you get

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Speaker 3: to the playoffs, but you ideally want guys who can

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Speaker 3: help you when you.

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Speaker 4: Do get to the playoffs. The best players do both,

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Speaker 4: but I.

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Speaker 3: Think now's not the time to just get players who

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Speaker 3: help you get there. You want players who can help

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Speaker 3: you win once you do.

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Speaker 1: It's a great call, and I'd love to get into

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Speaker 1: it more. Why said he regrets it and have a

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Speaker 1: n not.

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Speaker 2: Because of the It's fine. I get it. It's fine.

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Speaker 2: I get it. It's fine, we get it. We have

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Speaker 2: to go to break I get it. It's cool. We'll

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Speaker 2: talk off record, we'll get the real then I'll come

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Speaker 2: on here and I'll tell this.

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Speaker 1: Well, why why they didn't bring you back?

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Speaker 2: The reason I was told was beat us. But that's fine.

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Speaker 1: Wait, you don't want to wait?

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Speaker 2: We don't have time. We gotta go. He knows the reason.

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Speaker 3: I can come back for a segment later where you

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Speaker 3: can grill me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we know.

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Speaker 1: Was it something gucy or it's like.

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Speaker 5: Well, I don't know. I mean, I know why. I'm

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Speaker 5: pretty sure I know why, but we have to go

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Speaker 5: hunt Dad.

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Speaker 2: You know, I love you. You know I think you're

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Speaker 2: great at your job.

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Speaker 5: So I hope you get back in baseball soon, and

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Speaker 5: when you do, you can hire Crats to be your

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Speaker 5: assistant bullpen catcher.

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Speaker 3: Do his knee still have it in him? It was

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Speaker 3: great being on the show with you, guys. I really

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Speaker 3: appreciate what you guys do. Enjoyed listening was it was

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Speaker 3: a pleasure being on with you guys.

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Speaker 2: Bad thank you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this was great. We'd love to have you back,

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Speaker 1: so we'll work on booking you again. And in the meantime,

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Speaker 1: for everyone that's check this out, make sure you listen

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Speaker 1: to what Dad's got with his pod as well. Give

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Speaker 1: it a look and a listen. I'm sure you can

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Speaker 1: find it wherever you get your pods.

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Speaker 2: Dad will catch you soon.

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Speaker 3: Look forward to it, guys,