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Speaker 1: Now Here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nordy

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Speaker 1: with you. Susan Messino with as. Susan is an author,

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Speaker 1: rock and roll historian. She's been on our program a

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Speaker 1: number of times. She appears in the Vali and Van

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Speaker 1: Halen DVD The Early Years, a CDC's DVD, Let There

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Speaker 1: Be Rock. Susan's latest release as a revised and updated

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Speaker 1: edition of the Secrets of the Universal Laws, Past Lives,

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Speaker 1: Ghost Adventures and more that dolves into the synchronicity and manifestations,

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Speaker 1: healing with light, numerology, past lives, and also ghost adventures.

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Speaker 1: She has participated in ghost investigations and numerous locations, including

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Speaker 1: the Green Door Brothel in Deadwood, South Dakota, Gettysburg, and

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Speaker 1: the famed Bobby Mackie's Music Hall and Wilder, Kentucky. Several

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Speaker 1: of her books include Famous Wisconsin Musicians, The Story of

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Speaker 1: a CDC Rock and Roll Fantasy, My Life and Times

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Speaker 1: with a CDC Van Halen, and Kiss You've Been all

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Speaker 1: over the place, Susan, I have George, Hello and welcome back.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I always love being on your show, So

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Speaker 1: thanks for asking me. Every time I hear that song

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Speaker 1: American Pie, I think of that tragedy that occurred sixty

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Speaker 1: one years ago, now where all kinds of things happened.

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Speaker 1: I mean in the synchronicities of who would get on

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Speaker 1: the plane, who would not? What a story and that

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Speaker 1: contributes go ahead, Very very sad, but very fascinating at

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Speaker 1: the same time. It truly is what is the curse?

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Speaker 1: Oh Buddy Holly? Well, you know, I've been thinking about

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Speaker 1: this for a long time, and they call it a curse,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not sure if that would be the proper

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Speaker 1: word for it, but I believe that because of the

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Speaker 1: loss of the big bobber Richie Valens and Buddy Holly,

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Speaker 1: three of the biggest music stars in nine, nineteen fifty exactly, yeah, Um,

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Speaker 1: losing them like that so suddenly imprint the pain, I

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Speaker 1: believe imprints on to where it happened to the people

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Speaker 1: it happened to, the families that you know, had to

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Speaker 1: go through that. And it seems to me, with all

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Speaker 1: the research I've done, that so many people that had

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Speaker 1: personal contact with with Buddy worked with Buddy even you know,

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Speaker 1: uh came to sing for the band. Once Buddy was gone,

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Speaker 1: they were all died. They all died very strangely, car crashes,

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Speaker 1: plane crashes, suicides, very sad. And it's hard to, you know,

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Speaker 1: to try to figure out like is it a curse

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Speaker 1: or is it a repetitive thing because of you know,

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Speaker 1: the pain that it caused in the first place. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure or was it just bad luck. I think

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Speaker 1: it's more than bad luck, because as I found that

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Speaker 1: all the people that died that night, they all had

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Speaker 1: premonitions of their own death. Buddy Holly was even warned

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Speaker 1: by a producer named Joe Meet that he had gone

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Speaker 1: to a tarot reading in England the year before, and

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Speaker 1: he called Buddy and told him that this tarot card

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Speaker 1: reader said February third, Buddy Holly dies. And he called

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Speaker 1: him from England in nineteen fifty eight and told Buddy this,

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Speaker 1: and Buddy laughed it off because it was past February

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Speaker 1: already and he said, well, you know, don't have to

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Speaker 1: worry about that. And the very next February third is

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Speaker 1: when he died. Well, and it was all strange, where

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Speaker 1: like Richie Vallens had a coin toss and he won

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Speaker 1: the seat, he didn't want to take the bus, So

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Speaker 1: he got on the plane. Wayland Jennings, who is now dead,

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Speaker 1: but he was scheduled to be on that little plane.

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Speaker 1: He got off it, and I think he gave his

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Speaker 1: seat to the big Bopper, didn't he? Yes, he did.

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Speaker 1: They were sick. I mean they were on a bus

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Speaker 1: that kept breaking down, and it was bitter cold, you

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Speaker 1: know Midwestern you know, Iowa, Wisconsin, all of that, and

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Speaker 1: the big Bopper actually had gotten the flu. So Whyland

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Speaker 1: Jennings I gave up his seat to the big Bopper

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Speaker 1: In the movie. I believe it's the Buddy Holly story.

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Speaker 1: In the movie, they had Richie valens Is having the flu.

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Speaker 1: Was he sick too? I don't think he was sick.

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Speaker 1: I just think they were all like freezing to test. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was miserable, misable. Soon after takeoff, late at night

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Speaker 1: and very poor wintry weather conditions in the Midwest, the

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Speaker 1: pilot lost control of the light aircraft, which was a

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Speaker 1: Beechcraft Bonanza. Those of you who in the little planes,

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Speaker 1: subsequently crashed into a cornfield. Everyone on board was killed.

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Speaker 1: The pilot was only twenty one years old exactly, and

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Speaker 1: but he was only twenty two Ritchie was seventeen, the

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Speaker 1: Big Bopper was twenty eight, and yeah, the Big Bopper's

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Speaker 1: big song. He was a DJ, and he came up

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Speaker 1: with a song called Shantilly Lace that put him to

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Speaker 1: start him right. Yes, Yes, he was a very popular DJ,

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Speaker 1: and he did have a couple of hit songs, Shantilly

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Speaker 1: Lace and another one that I like. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: I have so many notes on the band and all

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Speaker 1: the people involved with it, but he was very popular

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Speaker 1: and well liked. Great guy on tour, you know, didn't

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Speaker 1: read anything about him that wasn't good, So he was

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Speaker 1: seemed to be a great guy. And he did have

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Speaker 1: a big hit with that song. Now, what was the

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Speaker 1: Buddy Holly curse, Susan? The Buddy Holly curse was I

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Speaker 1: just like I said, I think it's uh it imprints somehow.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if the curse happened before the plane crash

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Speaker 1: right exactly. Yes, yes, they they all had premonitions of

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Speaker 1: their own deaths. Richie Vallens, as you might have seen

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Speaker 1: in the movie LaBamba, he had a fear of planes

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Speaker 1: and he had to go to his grandfather's funeral one day,

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Speaker 1: and the day that he was not at school, a

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Speaker 1: small plane crashed into the actual place in the playground.

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Speaker 1: That's right. He kept seeing that vision of it too. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so he was. He did not like to fly at all.

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Speaker 1: And Buddy and his wife Maria Elena both had a

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Speaker 1: dream on the same night, which is really really creepy.

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Speaker 1: She dreamed that she was standing in a field and

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Speaker 1: she saw this big fireball out of the sky that

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Speaker 1: just exploded and made a big hole in the ground.

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Speaker 1: And the next day Buddy woke up and told her

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Speaker 1: that he dreamed that he was on a plane with

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Speaker 1: himself and his brother and his wife and they dropped

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Speaker 1: her off on the top of a building and said

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Speaker 1: we'll be back to get you. Oh my god. So

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Speaker 1: they all had premonitions. Didn't a band member make a

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Speaker 1: funny joke comment to Buddy Holly before he took the flight.

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Speaker 1: What did he say? Oh? Yes, he said, Well, it

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Speaker 1: was Whalen Jennings, and I think Buddy was teasing him

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Speaker 1: because he had lost his seat on the plane, you know,

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Speaker 1: he gave it up to the big bopper and he

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Speaker 1: mentioned but he said something like, well, I hope your

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Speaker 1: old bus breaks and Whalen shot back, well, I hope

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Speaker 1: you're old plane crashing. Oh my god, that must have

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Speaker 1: haunted him for years after that. It did. He never

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Speaker 1: forgave himself for saying it. And it did affect him,

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Speaker 1: it really did. Oh my gosh. Very sad. And why

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Speaker 1: did they take a plane anyway, Susan, Well, they were

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Speaker 1: on this bus that I have looked through their tour,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I'm from Wisconsin and they were up

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Speaker 1: in Wisconsin doing several dates. Actually, they were in Green Bay,

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin the night before they played the Surf Ballroom, and

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Speaker 1: they were driving in very severe weather all the time,

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Speaker 1: and some of the dates were up to five hundred

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Speaker 1: miles apart from each other, and the bus kept breaking down,

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Speaker 1: the heat kept not working. People were getting sick. Even

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Speaker 1: after the crash itself. The drummer, Carl Bunch was hospitalized

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Speaker 1: for frost, but frost bitten feet from being on the bus.

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Speaker 1: So the bus was not working out well at all.

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Speaker 1: It turned out to be a very miserable way to travel.

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Speaker 1: There were the performers who were at the event at

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Speaker 1: the Surf Ballroom and clear Lake, Iowa, and it was freezing.

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Speaker 1: If you're not from the Midwest, those winters on those

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Speaker 1: flat planes are very very cold, so I can imagine

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Speaker 1: those people were just you know, really freezing, especially with

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Speaker 1: the bus condition that it was in, oh, I know,

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Speaker 1: and the heat itself kept breaking down, so they you know,

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Speaker 1: the bus would break down and the heat would go off,

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Speaker 1: and it was a mess, you know. And Big Bopper

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Speaker 1: was sick, and they were tired too. I mean they

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Speaker 1: were almost playing every other day or almost every day,

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Speaker 1: just as I said, some were up to three hundred

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Speaker 1: miles apart from each other and five hundred miles apart,

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Speaker 1: so it's very grueling. And what I also found out

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Speaker 1: too is that if but he would have been being

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Speaker 1: paid properly for what he had already accomplished, he wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have needed to go on that tour. Well that's a

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Speaker 1: good point because he was a superstar at that time,

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Speaker 1: wasn't he? Yes, he was, but he wasn't making the

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Speaker 1: kind of superstar money he should have exactly, And that

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of speculation that his manager was not

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Speaker 1: as honest as he should have been. And his new wife,

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Speaker 1: he just got married six months before this. His new wife,

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Speaker 1: Maria Elena, was two about two weeks pregnant when he

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Speaker 1: went on the plane that night, and she blamed herself.

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Speaker 1: He wouldn't let her come along because she had just

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Speaker 1: started getting morning sickness. And she kept saying in a

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Speaker 1: lot of interviews that I found that if she would

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Speaker 1: have been there with him, they never would have got

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Speaker 1: on a plane. And she ended up having a miscarriage

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Speaker 1: because of all the stress after the plane crash exactly

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Speaker 1: and right after they called it psychological trauma, and she

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Speaker 1: lost the baby right after the accident happened, Susanne. Who

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Speaker 1: was Eddie Cochrane? Okay, Eddie, Like looking through my notes there,

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Speaker 1: Eddie Cochrane was a guy, a musician who was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be on that tour, So he kind of, you know,

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Speaker 1: in a way, I think he felt guilty that he

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Speaker 1: wasn't there. Was he a singer star by himself or

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Speaker 1: was he a group Okay, yep, he was a you know,

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Speaker 1: a singer performer and looking up here on well, I

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Speaker 1: know what happened to him, but he would he felt

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Speaker 1: really guilty about not being on the flight or not

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Speaker 1: being there for Buddy. And the following year, in April

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Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty, Eddie Cochrane his girlfriend who was a songwriter,

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Speaker 1: Sharon Sheeley, and she had written Poor Little Fool for

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Speaker 1: Ricky Nelson and written a lot of hit songs. And

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Speaker 1: they were with gene Vincent, another rock and roll star

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Speaker 1: back in the fifties. They were on their way to

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Speaker 1: London's Heedro Airport to return to California, and on the

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Speaker 1: way to the airport there car suffered a blown tire.

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Speaker 1: It put the car into just a spin out of control,

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Speaker 1: smashed into a light pole and Eddie Cochrane was thrown

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Speaker 1: from the car and killed instantly. And that was just

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Speaker 1: a little over a year after Buddy died. I mean,

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Speaker 1: and this was happening to people over and over again,

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Speaker 1: strange strange connections with the people. There was somebody committed

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Speaker 1: suicide too that he was so depressed about all this.

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Speaker 1: Who is that? Yes, well, there there are a few.

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Speaker 1: The first what I did was I to put it

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Speaker 1: into a chronological order, because there's so many people involved

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Speaker 1: in this. So that happened in April seventeenth, nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: when Eddie Cochrane died. And then in October of nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty two, Whyland took over singing for a while after

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Speaker 1: Buddy was killed, and of course they kept the winner

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Speaker 1: dance party tour going because you know, you gotta make money,

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Speaker 1: and they hired a singer called his name was Ronnie

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Speaker 1: Smith and he replaced Buddy. He continued the remainder of

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Speaker 1: the tour and in what was it nineteen sixty two,

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Speaker 1: he was committed to a state hospital in Texas for

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Speaker 1: drug abuse and hung himself at the age of twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, this is almost like the Curse of

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Speaker 1: the twenty seven Club. You've heard of that one, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I know, yeah, And that's a long story there too.

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Speaker 1: It's a maze amazing how all this, you know, comes together.

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Speaker 1: And you know, um, I actually wanted to find out

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Speaker 1: who Buddy Holly's influences were because he was, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the first rock and roll pioneers, and he

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Speaker 1: actually loved Hank William Senior, which makes sense because Hank,

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Speaker 1: you know, rocked out in his own way, and that

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Speaker 1: was one of the people that Buddy Holly loved to

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Speaker 1: listen to. Wasn't there another plane crash in nineteen sixty three? Yes,

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Speaker 1: Next the next thing that would happen is um cowboy Copus,

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Speaker 1: who was a Nashville star. He had done a fourteen

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Speaker 1: date tour with Buddy Holly, Hank Thompson, and George Jones.

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Speaker 1: He was actually returning from a benefit for the widow

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Speaker 1: of Cactus Jack Call, a local disc jockey who had

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Speaker 1: died in crash. He was writing in a single propeller

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Speaker 1: piper command she with fellow musicians Hackshaw, Hawkins and Patsy Kline. Pilot.

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Speaker 1: The pilot Randy Hughes, lost visibility and went down about

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Speaker 1: seventy miles north of Nashville. Is that's the plane crash

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Speaker 1: that killed Patsy Kline? Yes, Oh my gosh, that was

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Speaker 1: March fifth, nineteen sixty three. What does that tell you

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Speaker 1: about these little planes, Susan Joe. I don't like them.

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Speaker 1: I really recommend no one to fly in them unless

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Speaker 1: they're just doing something very safe. But again we see

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Speaker 1: even this horrific accident that involved Kobe Bryant and his daughter,

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Speaker 1: seven other people, they should never have taken off that

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Speaker 1: day because of the weather. They should never have been

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Speaker 1: given Clarence right, Yeah, exactly, And the same thing with

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Speaker 1: Buddy Holly. It was bad weather. That pilot was only

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Speaker 1: trained in sight flying and with his instrument, and we're

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Speaker 1: talking sixty one year old technology. Which wasn't that sophisticated exactly. Yes,

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Speaker 1: what happened, what happened in sixty four were the original Crickets. Okay,

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Speaker 1: the original Crickets were that was part of Buddy's group, right, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the original ones Jerry Allison, Joe By Maudlin, and Sonny Curtis.

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Speaker 1: And they continued as a group and brought in seventeen

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Speaker 1: year old David Box to replace Buddy Holly. Now. Box

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Speaker 1: was born in Texas and joined the Crickets in nineteen sixty.

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Speaker 1: He did a couple of recordings with them that didn't

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Speaker 1: go over well. D you know, it's hard to replaced

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Speaker 1: Buddy Holly, Let's put it that way. And on October

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Speaker 1: twenty third of nineteen sixty four, David Box hired Assessment

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Speaker 1: Skyhawk one seventy two to fly to a show in

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Speaker 1: Harris County, Texas. He and his drummer and his guitar

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Speaker 1: player left right after the show, and shortly after takeoff,

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Speaker 1: the cessment nose dived into the ground, killing all three passes.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, these are people who just had some

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Speaker 1: kind of relationship with Buddy Holly or something. It just

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Speaker 1: seems like everybody who had their lives touched by Buddy Holly.

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Speaker 1: Something tragic happened to them pretty much. Yes, yes, Even

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Speaker 1: doing all this research, I haven't played his music because

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of creeped out because when I started doing

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Speaker 1: this research, he definitely is popping up. I'm having you know,

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Speaker 1: all week long, I had people sending me text messages

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Speaker 1: and stuff saying I just heard something about the Buddy

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Speaker 1: Holly curse, and I was thinking that, I thought of you.

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Speaker 1: And tonight, actually I'm in Savannah, Georgia, and I was

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Speaker 1: out and I had said a prayer to the gentleman

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Speaker 1: that lost their lives, and I said, it's a shame

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Speaker 1: down here that we never hear any of your music.

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Speaker 1: And right after I thought that this car dealership in Savannah,

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Speaker 1: which is illegally using this, but they did a commercial

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Speaker 1: to the melody of La Bamba. It's everyone on the radio.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern, and go to Coast to Coast am

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Speaker 1: dot com for more