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Speaker 1: Amy roboc and TJ.

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Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Alisa Donovan.

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Speaker 3: Hey, everyone, a Lisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller. Okay,

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Speaker 3: today we are really getting into a very very nuts

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Speaker 3: o case. Because sometimes the most dangerous stories they are

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Speaker 3: not the ones that happen in dark alleys. They happen

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Speaker 3: in inboxes, courtrooms, headlines. So today we are stepping into

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Speaker 3: a case that played out in real time in the press,

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Speaker 3: in the legal system, involving former Bachelor Clayton Eckhard. So

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Speaker 3: what started as just a single simple date quickly spiraled

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Speaker 3: into a paternity claim, accusations of twins, hundreds of messages

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Speaker 3: and emails, court filings, and eventually felony charges. So on

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Speaker 3: the surface, it looked like just another celebrity scandal, but

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Speaker 3: underneath that, this is the out reputation, manipulation, public judgment,

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Speaker 3: and what it feels like to try to prove your

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Speaker 3: innocence to a world that pretty much already assumes that

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Speaker 3: you're guilty. So Clayton is here to talk about surviving

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Speaker 3: that storm and about his new podcast, Love Trapped Owens v. Eckard,

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Speaker 3: where you can hear all of the incredible details.

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Speaker 2: Clayton, Welcome to Killer Thriller.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm actually I'm super excited.

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Speaker 4: I've I've been on a couple other podcasts, but nothing

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Speaker 4: in this realm, like this genre. So I feel like

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Speaker 4: you're gonna You're gonna really ask.

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Speaker 1: All the good questions that I've probably not be asked yet.

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Speaker 2: Great.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, for us, this is a little bit

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Speaker 3: of it may feel like lighter fair, but for you

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Speaker 3: it clearly is not because this has had a massive

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Speaker 3: impact on your life. So we'll definitely get into a

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Speaker 3: lot of the legal things in like the case. But

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Speaker 3: when you my first question is when you look at

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Speaker 3: May of twenty twenty three, did you have any sense

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Speaker 3: that this was about to become your life?

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Speaker 1: No, not at all.

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Speaker 4: I had already actually been through one false accusation. It

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Speaker 4: was a cheating scandal which happened in the previous year,

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Speaker 4: and I disproved that within twenty four hours, thankfully due

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Speaker 4: to location services on my iPhone individual I claimed that

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Speaker 4: I went to New York, but I never did. My

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Speaker 4: phone showed that I stayed in Arizona.

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Speaker 2: Amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was able to disprove that. But I

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Speaker 1: thought that was going to be it.

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Speaker 4: You know, I thought, okay, wow, false accusation coming off

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Speaker 4: throughout a television.

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Speaker 1: I get that I wasn't really liked as a lead.

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Speaker 4: I was controversial, So I suppose maybe this is just

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Speaker 4: what happens. But I figured that'd be the extent of it. No,

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Speaker 4: I did not think that i'd be in a three

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Speaker 4: year paternity scandal.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: So when you're saying, like the false claim you are

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Speaker 3: speaking about Lauren Laura excuse me, Laura Owens accusing you

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Speaker 3: of fathering her twins, which, if you can clarify to us,

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Speaker 3: you claim that you two never even had intercourse.

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Speaker 2: So what is this?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: Magical thinking? Like what is the deal?

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 4: So, I mean, I don't know how much I can say,

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Speaker 4: but I'm very descriptive, and I had to be in

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Speaker 4: order to basically plead mines sence. And so I found that,

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Speaker 4: you know, the truth always prevails. And I've also just

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Speaker 4: found that for me, at least, honesty typically is the

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Speaker 4: best policy, even though can hurt some feelings, even though

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Speaker 4: can run people the wrong way. So we engaged in

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Speaker 4: oral sex. So she performed oral twice on me. The

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Speaker 4: second time she ran to the bathroom immediately afterwards when

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Speaker 4: she told me she was pregnant eleven days later, which

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Speaker 4: apparently in Google he says you can as early as

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Speaker 4: ten days you can find out.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure she googled that's why she hit me on

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Speaker 1: day eleven.

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Speaker 4: But I thought that she potentially split the fluid out

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Speaker 4: into her hands and then either had something on her

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Speaker 4: or just shoved it up via her fingers. So again

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Speaker 4: Google told me there was a small percentage chance that

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Speaker 4: that could create a vile, viable pregnancy if done fast enough.

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Speaker 4: So that was that was my concern was that she

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Speaker 4: trapped me, which is you know, which is the you know,

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Speaker 4: which is why the love Trapped is the name of

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Speaker 4: this podcast. Uh, there's I don't know, most people aren't

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Speaker 4: aware of this term called trapping.

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Speaker 1: Uh, it's very.

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Speaker 4: It's it's mostly prevalent in like a sports circle or

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Speaker 4: entertainment circle, where essentially what happens is an individual latches

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Speaker 4: on to somebody I would say, against their will or

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Speaker 4: without their participation, in order to receive some type of benefit,

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Speaker 4: whether it's financial benefit or whether it's you know, a

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Speaker 4: status they and so an example of this would be

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Speaker 4: it happened to a couple of my teammates back when

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Speaker 4: I played college ball. They became first round draft picks,

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Speaker 4: you know, and so they everyone knew they were going

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Speaker 4: to go make millions of dollars. So a woman comes

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Speaker 4: into their life, they have sex. The woman says she's

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Speaker 4: on birth control, she wasn't. She ends up getting pregnant,

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Speaker 4: and then she goes after his paycheck. That's that happened

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Speaker 4: to a few of my teammates. It's happened to many

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Speaker 4: people previously in that realm, and so I had I

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Speaker 4: was aware that there were women capable of doing something

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Speaker 4: like that, and so that's what I thought she was

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Speaker 4: doing in my situation was more for I think for

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Speaker 4: a career advancement. She wanted to use it because she

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Speaker 4: was a mental health advocate at the time. She had

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Speaker 4: her own mental health podcast, So she was looking to

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Speaker 4: line me up as her next ted X talk because

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Speaker 4: she had done one on a previous victim where she

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Speaker 4: claimed he physically abused her, which was a whole lie,

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Speaker 4: and so she was looking to set me up as

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Speaker 4: her next story, which she had even alluded.

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Speaker 1: To at one point.

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Speaker 3: I Wow, I don't I feel like I have so

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Speaker 3: many things to say about what you just said.

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Speaker 4: It's a lot only scratching the surface. I mean, that's

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Speaker 4: the thing is there's so.

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Speaker 3: Much, not the least of which is be careful, you

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Speaker 3: know when you go to someone who claims they're a

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Speaker 3: mental health expert without really carring that to you. But

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Speaker 3: I do want to say straight away because this is

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Speaker 3: so unsettling to me that what really really gets me

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Speaker 3: about this is that she is creating this narrative that

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Speaker 3: women do these things all the time, you know, and

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Speaker 3: it's so frustrating because she is like then eighth of

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Speaker 3: a percentile of women that do this. You know, generally speaking,

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Speaker 3: we don't women don't do things like this, and so

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Speaker 3: it's like infuriating to me to see that this woman

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Speaker 3: has now she has done this repeatedly. Right, so you

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Speaker 3: come to find out that you were not the first

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Speaker 3: nor the only victim of this woman.

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Speaker 1: Right correct.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's interesting, And I want to touch on

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Speaker 4: this because actually just came from another podcast where they

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Speaker 4: brought up a concern of you know, she's invalidating other women.

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Speaker 4: Now she's setting us back, and and I understand that

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Speaker 4: I know where that's I can see where that's coming

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Speaker 4: from you know, we want, you know, we don't want

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Speaker 4: people to feel, you know, that they could potentially go

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Speaker 4: into a position where it's like, if I happen to

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Speaker 4: share my story, my truth, could I you know, end

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Speaker 4: up then being in a situation like this woman where

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Speaker 4: now she's facing fourteen years or fourteen felony charges in

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Speaker 4: over fifty years in prison. And so I don't want

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Speaker 4: to deter any woman from you know, coming forward and

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Speaker 4: speaking their truth. And that's certainly again we as we

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Speaker 4: talk about even in the podcast, it's not about men

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Speaker 4: versus women.

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Speaker 1: We don't want it to be that.

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Speaker 4: And this again, when I say that this is more

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Speaker 4: prevalent trapping in the sports industry or entertainment, it's still

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Speaker 4: not prevalent. When you take you know, one or a

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Speaker 4: couple of women doing this over with the millions of

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Speaker 4: women that are out there, it's it's it's certainly less

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Speaker 4: than a percent of women that are doing this. Nonetheless,

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Speaker 4: it does exist, but it's just yeah, I mean, it's

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Speaker 4: a delicate subject.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe this.

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Speaker 4: Is going to deter any future victims from coming forward

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Speaker 4: and speaking their truth in fear of potentially having legal

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Speaker 4: action placed upon them.

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Speaker 1: If you if you speak your truth.

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Speaker 4: If Laura was telling the truth, she wouldn't be facing

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Speaker 4: you knowp to fifty years in prison.

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Speaker 1: She wouldn't have made it that far.

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Speaker 4: You know, Again, the county attorney wouldn't have picked up

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Speaker 4: the case and decided to pursue legal action against her

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Speaker 4: she was telling the truth. You know, if she had

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Speaker 4: an actual viable paternity test to present and a viable child,

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Speaker 4: and there was a DNA test done, somebody would have

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Speaker 4: come back as the father. She would have never been

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Speaker 4: in a situation. I could have tried to get her

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Speaker 4: for defamation if it wasn't my child. Sure, but again,

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Speaker 4: you shouldn't say that this is this is this this

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Speaker 4: man is the child or sorry as the father of

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Speaker 4: the children or child.

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Speaker 1: Unless you know so.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, of course there's a risk you could get hit

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Speaker 4: with defamation if you're wrong.

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Speaker 1: But I think this is where it's like.

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Speaker 4: You know, don't if it's your truth, and speak it

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Speaker 4: and you'll be you know, the truth will prevail. So

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Speaker 4: that's that's the message is I don't think this is

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Speaker 4: I hope. I don't want it to deter other women.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it discredits them. I just think it's

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Speaker 4: that matter of like, hey, if you're I think if anything,

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Speaker 4: it deters women that are thinking they may want to

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Speaker 4: do this.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's what I hope.

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Speaker 3: I mean, because it seems very clear she is not

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Speaker 3: the victim.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's there's no there is really no.

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Speaker 4: It's not for debate. I mean, it's at this point,

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Speaker 4: she's been caught in so many lives. She's been caught

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Speaker 4: with medical fraud. She's been caught admitting to medical fraud.

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Speaker 4: She's forged. Yeah, these documents, there's doctor appointments that she

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Speaker 4: never showed up to. She's not had a single expert

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Speaker 4: that's been able to like stand behind her, besides one

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Speaker 4: guy that claimed he was that came.

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Speaker 1: Into court, but he was a fraud if you asked me.

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Speaker 4: She has not all these doctors she claims she saw,

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Speaker 4: she never did so all the I mean, it's it's

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Speaker 4: a pile of just evidence against her. And yeah, I

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Speaker 4: do think though that the county attorney is looking to

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Speaker 4: make a statement and and and she should, you know,

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Speaker 4: Rachel Mitchell should, because the legal system shouldn't be played

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Speaker 4: around with this woman has wasted so many resources, police

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Speaker 4: resources with all of her phone calls having them show

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Speaker 4: up to the house and just taking up wasting time

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Speaker 4: and energy, and so I in order for a judicial

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Speaker 4: system to be taken seriously, there needs to be punishment

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Speaker 4: for when you abuse.

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Speaker 1: The system, and that's what she's done.

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Speaker 4: So I do think that again, like this is something

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Speaker 4: where it needs's a statement needs to be made, because

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Speaker 4: if she is let off with no penalties, this will

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Speaker 4: this will actually encourage other people to do something similar.

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Speaker 3: Sure, so she I read that, Well, first I want

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Speaker 3: to ask, was there a moment when you realized, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is not going away quickly? And was that when

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Speaker 3: I read that she proposed to you that she would

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Speaker 3: get rid of the child, the pregnancy, excuse me, the

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Speaker 3: pregnancy if.

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Speaker 2: You agreed to a dating contract of some kind. Is

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Speaker 2: that accurate?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: She stated first it was two weeks, and then you know,

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Speaker 4: in her desperation she took it down to one. But

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Speaker 4: she essentially said, if you date me, I'll have an abortion,

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Speaker 4: but if you don't date me, I'm having the child.

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Speaker 2: Who Yeah, and what was your response. Did she say

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Speaker 2: this on the phone or was this an email or

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Speaker 2: phone call?

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Speaker 4: Then once I blocked her, it was an email, and

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Speaker 4: I did try to hash things out in person with her.

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Speaker 4: So I had her come over to talk through things

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Speaker 4: at one point.

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Speaker 1: But to answer your question.

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Speaker 4: When I knew that it wasn't going to go away,

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Speaker 4: it was.

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Speaker 1: It was after she said she was pregnant.

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Speaker 4: I still thought maybe she would just give it up

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Speaker 4: once I blocked her. I knew it wasn't going away

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Speaker 4: once she sent me another pattern or another pregnancy test.

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Speaker 4: And so after she had sent the first one saying

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Speaker 4: I'm pregnant, she said another one and said I'm here

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Speaker 4: at the doctor and here's the doctor notes. And I'm like, okay, Wow,

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Speaker 4: she's really really moving forward with us. She's trying to

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Speaker 4: convince me through documentation. And that's where that, along with

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Speaker 4: five sixty messages a day, she never stopped.

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Speaker 1: She was just continuously trying to.

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Speaker 4: Just just be in my head at all times with

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Speaker 4: new information and threatening to sue me for the real

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Speaker 4: estate transactions because we originally she reached out for real estate.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's what. So she wanted to buy a house

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Speaker 2: from you?

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Speaker 1: Is that?

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Speaker 4: So she said, yeah, she was looking to purchase investment

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Speaker 4: properties turn them into rentals. And so she had claimed

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Speaker 4: that she was trying to get in contact with my brokerage,

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Speaker 4: but couldn't get a hold of anybody, and so she

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Speaker 4: wanted to work with us.

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Speaker 1: So that was how she reached out.

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Speaker 4: And I was naive and thought, hey, you know, just

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Speaker 4: I just got my license and I came from reality television,

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Speaker 4: so this makes sense. People are going to reach out

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Speaker 4: to me, like the business is going to come to me,

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Speaker 4: which is really nice. And so we exchanged information and

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Speaker 4: then yeah, just one night it led to me crossing

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Speaker 4: professional boundaries. I had taken a marijuana edible and she

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Speaker 4: had sent me. I considered it a provocative photo. She

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Speaker 4: wasn't like in like her you know, like underwear or

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Speaker 4: anything or lingerie. She was just wearing it, had tight

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Speaker 4: spandex on standing next to a horse. And so we

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Speaker 4: talked about that as well on the podcast, as far

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Speaker 4: as I mean, the host even gives me trouble for it.

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Speaker 4: She's like, I can't believe that's all it took.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I mean, I was going to ask like

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Speaker 2: was it worth it?

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Speaker 1: Like no, not, no, of course it wasn't.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 4: I would go back, and I would I would. I

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Speaker 4: would be like, I'll take it all back. The two

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Speaker 4: blowjobs weren't worth it. Yeah, I mean, it's it's crazy,

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Speaker 4: how but ultimately was it We're actually, you know, I say,

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Speaker 4: is it worth it? Yes, but not because for me,

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Speaker 4: but because of the other victims, so as people will

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Speaker 4: hear in this podcast. So really, what it does is

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Speaker 4: it places you in the shoes of the victims. And

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Speaker 4: first it's you know, it's in my shoes, and then

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Speaker 4: as we go farther along into the series, you start

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Speaker 4: to hear that there's others and you find out that

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Speaker 4: she's been doing this for ten plus years. You find

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Speaker 4: out that her family are all accomplices, and it gets

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Speaker 4: very dark, and so why it's.

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Speaker 1: Been worth it?

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Speaker 4: Actually, I have to step back on that statement, is yes,

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Speaker 4: it is worth it because justice is being served for

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Speaker 4: those previous victims that never received it.

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Speaker 1: Right that essentially I have been fighting her and.

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Speaker 4: Lost, you know, really they lost in court and or

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Speaker 4: outside of court, and she beat them up and then

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Speaker 4: placed restraining auras on them.

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Speaker 2: And any other victims on the there are men.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and I got a restraining order against me.

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Speaker 4: I didn't realize how easy it is to get a

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Speaker 4: restraining order with no factual evidence, which she had none,

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Speaker 4: and yet she got a straining order on me.

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Speaker 3: And so you know, it's like a systematic manipulation, right,

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Speaker 3: like the step by step where it makes it look

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Speaker 3: like it's you, and then it's by the time you're trying.

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Speaker 2: To catch us, like you're trying to play catch up

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Speaker 2: the whole time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just she was just again and she's never

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Speaker 4: held an actual job outside her parents supporting her, and

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Speaker 4: so she does this full time. I mean, she legitimly

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Speaker 4: was perfecting her craft. And so again, like as the

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Speaker 4: series goes on, you'll hear about the other victims and

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Speaker 4: you'll start hearing, you know, the patterns, realizing that this

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Speaker 4: is one big, big, old orchestrated just a bout of

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Speaker 4: madness that's been yep, that's been over time refined, and

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Speaker 4: it goes deeper than again, like than just her.

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Speaker 2: So sure, yeah, so you said the family or accomplices.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean by that? So she had a

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Speaker 2: famous father, certainly in.

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Speaker 3: The Bay area, who is a well known what would

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Speaker 3: we call his commentator, radio host, radio host, radio host,

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Speaker 3: who I live in San Francisco, and so I wasn't

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Speaker 3: aware of this person, but everyone else on the planet

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Speaker 3: in this area was. So tell me what do you

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Speaker 3: mean by that about them being accomplices.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So again, as the stories of the other victims are shared,

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Speaker 4: you know, there's there there were early conversations we're talking

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Speaker 4: back in twenty sixteen where you know, her father had

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Speaker 4: involvement talking directly to a victim and basically saying that

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Speaker 4: he's aware of, you know, his daughter and what she's

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Speaker 4: doing and oh wow.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, I.

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Speaker 4: Spoke directly to her mother on the phone, and it

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Speaker 4: was as if I was speaking to Laura.

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Speaker 1: It was the all. It was almost as if I

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Speaker 1: was talking to the puppet master.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it was the oh wow, well everything that

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Speaker 4: I thought it was going to be a conversation, you know,

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Speaker 4: where I talked to a mother and she goes, oh

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Speaker 4: my gosh, I didn't know my daughter was doing this. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I don't want her to, you know, let me talk

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Speaker 4: with her, talk some sense into her. But no, it

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Speaker 4: was completely there was the opposite. She said, I can't

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Speaker 4: you know you impregnated.

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Speaker 1: My daughter, and so I, oh my god, it's embarrassing.

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Speaker 4: Or you should be disappointed that you won't step up

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Speaker 4: to the plate as a man and give her a chance.

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Speaker 3: So do you think that the parents just believed her.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that she's mentally ill or she's a criminal.

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Speaker 1: No, I think she's a criminal.

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Speaker 4: I think she's someone that's never had, ever had to

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Speaker 4: face accountability.

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Speaker 1: This is a.

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Speaker 4: Family that, you know, they were millionaires at one point

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Speaker 4: in their life. They had success in multiple realms financial,

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Speaker 4: they had status, and so I believe they were in

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Speaker 4: a bracket where they could talk their way or pay

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Speaker 4: their way out of things. And they raised their their

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Speaker 4: children in that manner. And so you know, Laura could,

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Speaker 4: from what I've heard, could get out of anything at

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Speaker 4: a young age. And and you know, and they were litigious.

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Speaker 4: They were willing to you know, impress you know, lawsuits

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Speaker 4: on people, and so I just at least just take

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Speaker 4: them to court or threaten to sue. And and you know,

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Speaker 4: when you when you grow up as a child and

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Speaker 4: you see that, you think, okay, well we're invincible. And

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Speaker 4: so I believe that's what happened. Laura felt she was invincible.

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Speaker 4: She's been living with her parents all of her life.

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Speaker 4: She still lives in their guest home, so she's never

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Speaker 4: been independent. So you have someone that feels that she's invincible.

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Speaker 4: And she and she said she said that to me.

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Speaker 4: You know, she's sent me emails saying, you know, I

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Speaker 4: have an unlimited budget to sue you, and you know

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Speaker 4: I will like insinuating that there was no way she

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Speaker 4: could fail or lose. So some of that's never faced accountability.

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Speaker 1: This is what they would like.

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Speaker 2: Right, this is what This is what they do.

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Speaker 3: Don't get me started on accountability because I have like

385
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Speaker 3: a real.

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Speaker 2: Be in my bonnet about it. So I'm with you

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Speaker 2: on that.

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Speaker 1: I'm really big with accountability.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I you know, coming off Fauty television, I

390
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,199
Speaker 4: had to take accountability for my own actions and so

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Speaker 4: you know, I get it. The ego doesn't want you

392
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Speaker 4: to take first. You want to point the finger. But

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Speaker 4: you know, this is a thing where even Laura, she said,

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Speaker 4: now that you know I we've caused all of this,

395
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Speaker 4: and it's like, no, you have. You're the reason why

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Speaker 4: all this exists, and you're the reason why you now

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Speaker 4: have fourteen felony charges that are about to be placed

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Speaker 4: upon you and may you got fifty plus years of

399
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,280
Speaker 4: prison time that you're looking at, you know, and this

400
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,880
Speaker 4: is all her doing, you know, So it's nobody else's.

401
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 4: It's like, Laura, if you decided that you just would

402
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,760
Speaker 4: have never faked a pregnancy, then we wouldn't be here today.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I gave her an out.

404
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,400
Speaker 4: I sent her a contract all of like a never

405
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Speaker 4: speak again clause about this, where I was like, hey,

406
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 4: before she went public, I was like, if you just

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00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,920
Speaker 4: sign this document stating you were never pregnant by me

408
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,560
Speaker 4: and that you'll never bring it up. But again, you'll

409
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 4: never harass me, like I will act as this never happened. Right,

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Speaker 4: So I sent that to her and she's sent back,

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Speaker 4: you know, I can't believe that you would send this,

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Speaker 4: And so.

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Speaker 1: Again she she believed that.

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Speaker 4: She was invincible, and she believed she could lie her

415
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,840
Speaker 4: way out of it, and she got wrapped up in

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00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,199
Speaker 4: her own lives. And that's where, you know, with the

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00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 4: help of my incredible legal team, we were able to

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00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 4: pick apart all these things she had said, and they're

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Speaker 4: all documented. I mean everything was was, you know, on

420
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,879
Speaker 4: email or text. So when you hear this podcast, I

421
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 4: mean you're going to hear we have a voice actress

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00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,159
Speaker 4: that you know that is really is you know, is

423
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,400
Speaker 4: reading through these texts, and I mean it's it's it's yeah,

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00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 4: it's insidious. I mean, it's it's they picked a great voice,

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00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 4: a voice actions she sounds crazy, which is what Laura is,

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00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 4: and so it's like, you know, it's but it really

427
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,399
Speaker 4: puts you into that position where it's like, you know,

428
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 4: these are the messages that.

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Speaker 1: Actually were being sent.

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Speaker 4: This is what it would feel like to be someone

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00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 4: that's that's a target of a heinous act like what

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Speaker 4: Laura does.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so five hundred emails and texts, I

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Speaker 3: mean that's a very big number.

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Speaker 2: Did you read all of them?

436
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 1: Yeah?

437
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean because I was reading them out of curiosity,

438
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Speaker 4: but I was also reading them to understand her next

439
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 4: move because I had her in a block folder, but

440
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 4: she had on read receipts, so anytime I opened them,

441
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Speaker 4: she knew I was reading them. But I you know

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Speaker 4: that when I decided at first I'm not going to

443
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 4: read them, it didn't stop the emails from coming. And

444
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,400
Speaker 4: so when I wasn't reading the emails, she would send

445
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 4: over a text message, and when I'd blocked that, she

446
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 4: would use I was I believe she was using Google

447
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 4: Voice and so she was just creating a new phone number.

448
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,400
Speaker 4: So she texted me from over thirteen different and phone

449
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 4: numbers so I couldn't avoid you know, those messages from

450
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 4: coming through. I also realized that if I wasn't reading

451
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 4: her emails, she'd start sending more messages to my family

452
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 4: members or in organizations I was working with. So if

453
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 4: I was in contact with her, then she was less

454
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 4: in contact with people on the outside, right, And that's

455
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 4: where I was trying to keep it under wraps. And

456
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 4: I was like, look, I don't want her, you know,

457
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 4: interacting with people on the outside because they're not aware

458
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,959
Speaker 4: of this story. And I mean again, they're going to

459
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 4: be like, what's going on? You know, So I was

460
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 4: trying to keep it quiet.

461
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 3: And people like this thrive on the connection with you, right,

462
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 3: Like it has to keep going. So if you could,

463
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,719
Speaker 3: I totally understand what you're saying, Like, if you could

464
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 3: contain it to just between the two of you, it

465
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 3: would stop spreading.

466
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: Like well, that's what it was.

467
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 4: Was how I was then trying to play chess with her,

468
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 4: where I was trying to get ahead of her at

469
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 4: her game, and so something I discussed on the podcast

470
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 4: as I had her come over, because I said I

471
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 4: wanted to talk with her and see if we could

472
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 4: just you know, just like let's just talk and let's

473
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 4: be reasonable and see if we can come to a

474
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 4: solution here. But I was just trying to get her

475
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 4: to come over to take an attornity or a pregnancy test.

476
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 4: But when she showed up, she already had a pregnancy

477
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 4: test ready to go, and she was ready to take

478
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 4: the test as well, and and and so again we

479
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 4: talked as as to why why would she take a

480
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 4: pregnancy test?

481
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 2: Did she take it there on the spot?

482
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 4: She did and it came back positive. So again this

483
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 4: and it all unravels. But this is where, like what

484
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 4: I've been really impressed by is the production of the podcast.

485
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 4: I first, when they brought it to me, I wasn't

486
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 4: too excited because I'm like, okay, podcast is a podcast,

487
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 4: but I've already talked on this a million times. But

488
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 4: you know what, what what's really incredible about this is

489
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 4: it's storytelling. So it's you know, there's voice actresses, there's

490
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 4: her voice, there's my story, there's other stories, and so

491
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 4: it takes it puts you into our shoes, and it

492
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 4: takes you through all the emotions as well. So early on,

493
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 4: you know you go wait, wait, hold.

494
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 2: On, how yeah, wait hold on?

495
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 3: And yeah speaking of weight, hold on, how did it

496
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 3: come back positive.

497
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 2: The pregnancy test and what did you What was your

498
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:17,719
Speaker 2: response when you saw it?

499
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 4: Well, it came back positive because if we jump into

500
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 4: the details a little bit, there's you know, she was

501
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 4: testing positive. Pregnancy test is testing for hCG, so you

502
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 4: know it's a pregnancy hormone. So the question then became,

503
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 4: you know, is she actually pregnant or is she manipulating

504
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 4: hCG levels in her body? And so you know, there

505
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 4: we've we've obviously uncovered what that is. Now I guess

506
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 4: I'll tease that so when people listen, we do figure

507
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 4: out how she was able to manipulate those levels.

508
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: Oh you do?

509
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that.

510
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: You've gotten like an education in science. And this has

511
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:58,159
Speaker 2: been all.

512
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 4: Well, I had to google a lot of this, and

513
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 4: you know, because I was trying to uncover any holes

514
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 4: in her you know, in her story, because I was

515
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 4: so desperately wanting it to not be true. You know,

516
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 4: I thought, well, maybe she did successfully trap me, but

517
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 4: so far she's not giving me any concrete evidence. And

518
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,159
Speaker 4: what she would send me, I would see pixelation on

519
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 4: the images, so it looked like things were photoshopped, and

520
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 4: so it was this kind of cat and mouse game

521
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 4: of like, how do I, you know, get ahead of

522
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 4: her and catch her in an act where I can

523
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 4: just disprove this right now. But because I wasn't her

524
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 4: first victim, uh, you know, she had experience and I didn't. Obviously,

525
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,199
Speaker 4: this was my first go round in a situation like this.

526
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 4: I was, you know, whereas she was on you know

527
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 4: number four, at least you know where we yeah.

528
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 2: We know.

529
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, so she was more skilled and she as again,

530
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 4: as in the podcast, it will show like previous victims,

531
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 4: she was learning from her own craft and not make

532
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 4: the same mistakes so the next time around she wouldn't

533
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 4: get caught in the same lives.

534
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 3: It's like Sandra Bullock in Ocean's Eight. Yeah, she's like

535
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 3: learning the whole time she's incarcerated.

536
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 4: And I wonder if you know she took inspiration from

537
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 4: a movie or something along those lines, because yeah, it

538
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 4: was very well crafted. I mean, she's smart. She could

539
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 4: speak on the medical jargon. She knew a lot about

540
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 4: real estate. She's a very intelligent person, which is scary

541
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 4: because that's where yeah, you know, she's able to manipulate

542
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 4: in gaslight, and that's her tactic. As I'm going to,

543
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 4: you know, overwhelm me, but I'm going to give you

544
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 4: evidence and I'm gonna be able to put this together.

545
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: It's not sloppy.

546
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 4: I mean, she she did a pretty good job of

547
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 4: selling a narrative. I just, you know, thankfully again she

548
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 4: couldn't produce concrete evidence because she didn't have any, but

549
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 4: she was able to definitely pull me along to her.

550
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: I had. I definitely considered my insanity. I mean I

551
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 1: had to. I bet.

552
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 3: How who did you lean on during this time? Were

553
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 3: you talking to friends about this or family?

554
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 4: Like?

555
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 2: How did you take care of your mental state?

556
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: Yeah? Mainly my family?

557
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 4: And you know, I got a great bit of advice

558
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 4: from my dad. One day he called me after she

559
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 4: had emailed my family. So I obviously had to tell

560
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 4: them and bring it to light. And so I told them.

561
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 4: And one day my dad, you know, called me and

562
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 4: he was just like, just want to check in and

563
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 4: see how you're doing. And I said, this is probably

564
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 4: like less than a month into this whole scenario.

565
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: And I said, Dad, I'll be honest with.

566
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 4: You, I have no energy or you know, drive to

567
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 4: do anything like I am just laying in my bed

568
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 4: staring up at the ceiling like I can't even I can.

569
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: I'm doing my job, you know, I work from home.

570
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 4: I do the bare minimum, and then the rest of

571
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 4: the day I just stare up at the ceiling and wonder,

572
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 4: like how bad my life is going to be? You know,

573
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 4: if this woman actually is pregnant, she's going to destroy

574
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 4: my life. You know, I co parenting with this woman.

575
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 4: She's a monster, you know. And so I was staring

576
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 4: at the ceiling and I was like, I can't function.

577
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 4: And he said, well, Clayton, he said, if she is

578
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 4: in fact pregnant, your life will not change for another

579
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 4: eight months. So you know, you're month then. But all

580
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 4: you can do is live in the present moment right now.

581
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 4: You never know what could happen. She could decide she

582
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 4: actually doesn't want to move forward with this, if she

583
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 4: is actually pregnant, she could have an abortion, she could

584
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 4: have a miscarriage, you.

585
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: Know, or she could have the child.

586
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 4: But whatever the situation, you know, scenario is, it's not

587
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 4: truth and it's not something you have to respond to

588
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 4: until you know, eight more months from now, when she

589
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 4: delivers the baby. And then at that point it's real,

590
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 4: and at that point you can respond to whatever the

591
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,479
Speaker 4: actual scenario is. But you sitting here looking up at

592
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 4: the ceiling and wonder in thinking worst case.

593
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: Scenario, it may never present.

594
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 4: And that was incredible advice because he was right, because

595
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 4: I mean because he said that a month then before

596
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 4: we were able to obviously disprove completely, and before she

597
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 4: even went public, and when I was still questioning, is

598
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 4: she like did she trap me?

599
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: Did she not?

600
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 4: But but yeah, I mean obviously the scenario that prevail

601
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 4: was everything was made up and here we are. So

602
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 4: you know, in that moment, I learned a really valuable

603
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 4: lesson to just live in the present moment and just

604
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 4: only respond to what's actually real.

605
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, were you able to date at all during this time?

606
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: It made dating really hard because was it public?

607
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 2: Yet at this point she made it public first? Is

608
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: that right?

609
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: Get public?

610
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 4: If I remember, it was in September of twenty twenty three,

611
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 4: so I met her in May and I was talking

612
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 4: to somebody right around the time that I met Laura.

613
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: I just started talking to this woman.

614
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 4: Well it started to get more serious, so about a

615
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 4: it was like a few weeks after she said she

616
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 4: was pregnant. Things were getting serious with this woman, this

617
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 4: other woman, and so I ended up, you know, basically

618
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 4: bringing it up to her and saying, hey, you know,

619
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 4: you need to be aware of this because things are

620
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 4: getting serious between us and this is something that's going on.

621
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 4: And I don't believe she's pregnant, but like I'm not

622
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 4: fully certain, but she's certainly.

623
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: Being a nuisance. Uh.

624
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 4: And I said, so I want you to know this

625
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 4: just so you understand what you might be getting into.

626
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 4: And so she said, hey, thank you for telling me ultimately,

627
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 4: and I really like you, but it's early on and like,

628
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 4: I don't want to be involved in.

629
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: This in any capacity. So I said, I understand, and

630
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:23,239
Speaker 1: that was the end of it.

631
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 4: So yeah, it definitely like after that that individual I

632
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 4: didn't try to date because I just was like, look,

633
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 4: this will be every single woman and why not you know.

634
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going to say, did it affect your

635
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,479
Speaker 3: trust in other women and women in general?

636
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, not as much as people might have thought it would,

637
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 4: but it has at times. I mean there have been

638
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 4: multiple Like it has it stopped me and maybe made

639
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 4: me celibate? No, Like I think this is where like,

640
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 4: you know, the male brain under with testosterone and like

641
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 4: our aur you are these these animal brains of ours

642
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 4: like this, sometimes we just shift into one gear and

643
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 4: we don't think about rationally on the other side until

644
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,239
Speaker 4: we have that moment of clarity afterwards, and then we go,

645
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 4: I need to do that right like that, That's when

646
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 4: those moments would hit where I was, That's where I

647
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 4: would panic.

648
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: I'd be like Clayton, like you.

649
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 4: Could find yourself right back in this scenario, like because

650
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 4: is Laura was normal until she wasn't? Like I talk

651
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 4: about it in the podcast, but there was a point

652
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 4: at which like she just snapped.

653
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was that moment? What made you?

654
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 3: Because I read that there that she I'm paraphrasing, but

655
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 3: something like she her response her reaction to you saying,

656
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 3: you know, maybe this was a mistake pretty early on

657
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 3: that she her reaction was really extreme and that made

658
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 3: you not want to continue any kind of relationship with her.

659
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I'll never forget it was, you know,

660
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 4: the next day, after we had hooked up, and she

661
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 4: was hoping that we could continue to talk and date,

662
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 4: and I told her, Hey, that was the one time

663
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 4: thing and I'm not interested for suing this further. She

664
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 4: began to cry, and that's when I knew something was

665
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 4: off because I had just met this woman. So I'm like,

666
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 4: this woman's now hysterically crying and begging for me to

667
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 4: date her. And I've only talked to this woman for

668
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 4: like five days, you know, So that was the first

669
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 4: time in the extreme emotion. But then when I finally said,

670
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 4: you know, no means no, stop asking me to date you,

671
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 4: because I became agitated when she kept begging and I

672
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 4: was like, you're not listening and hearing me like I

673
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 4: and so I finally just said no means no, stop

674
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 4: asking me to date you. And that moment is when

675
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 4: her face went stone cold and she wiped the tears

676
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 4: and Gabe said, all right, I understand, have.

677
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: A great day.

678
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 2: And is that when she went to the Sun and

679
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: gave the interview.

680
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 4: No, that was just when before she even said she

681
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 4: was pregnant. But that's when I felt in that moment,

682
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm dealing with a very dark energy. I mean,

683
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 4: her eyes didn't go all black, but it felt that way.

684
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 4: When she said no, I get it, have a great day.

685
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 4: I had chills over my body because it's her eyes

686
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 4: glossed over like I the lights went off, and it's

687
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 4: like something overtook her.

688
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: Is what it felt like.

689
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 4: You know, I'm very spiritual, and I just feel like

690
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 4: something some dark energy in that moment.

691
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: I could see it in her eyes.

692
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 4: It's like as if just the glass went over, and

693
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 4: it was like, Okay, you've just slipped the switch and

694
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 4: you're my next victim.

695
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: And that's that's what, ultimately, I mean I felt.

696
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 4: And then I mean, yeah, my intuition was right, because

697
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 4: then you know, eleven days later, she's sending me a

698
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 4: positive pregnancy test and claiming that you know that I'm

699
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 4: the father.

700
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 3: Two things, How how did it feel when you did

701
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 3: you when you read the Sun article when that came out?

702
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 2: How how did that feel to you?

703
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: I mean, it was it was lot.

704
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 4: She knew that I was filming a pickleball reality TV

705
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 4: show locally, so it was my first hosting gig, and

706
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 4: she knew that that was the first day that I

707
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 4: was hosting, so she lined it up the release of

708
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 4: the article with my first day as a host. So

709
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 4: I'm in this, you know, pickleball venue, and I'm reciting

710
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 4: my lines and I knew the article was already coming

711
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 4: because I had the writer already texting me telling me, hey,

712
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 4: I'll give you a heads up.

713
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: I'm releasing this in the next few hours.

714
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

715
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 4: And so I knew the article was coming and then

716
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 4: she said, hey, I'm about to post it.

717
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 1: And I was at the time, I was recording.

718
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 4: But I then went to the locker room afterwards and

719
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 4: I opened my phone up and boom it's She's like.

720
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: Hey, it's posted.

721
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 4: And I just sat there and put my head into

722
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 4: my hands and I just took probably three minutes of silence,

723
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 4: and then I went straight to the owner of the

724
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 4: facility that was orchestrating this whole show, and I said, hey,

725
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 4: I need to talk to you.

726
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 1: It's really serious.

727
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 4: And he said okay, he says, do I need to

728
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 4: get everybody else? I said, yes, you need to get

729
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 4: everyone that's involved in this from a production standpoint, at.

730
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: Least the decision makers.

731
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 4: So I brought it to them and I told them

732
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 4: the scenario, and ultimately they kept me on because they said,

733
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 4: you know, they brought They said, okay, you can leave

734
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 4: the room. And then after like five minutes they said, hey,

735
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 4: come back in the room and they said, we just

736
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 4: want to know are you telling the truth? I said,

737
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 4: one thousand percent, I'm telling the truth. This one was

738
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 4: making it all up and they said, okay, then we're

739
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 4: going to stick with you.

740
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you.

741
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 3: You know, you said this a couple of times already,

742
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 3: and I think that you are exemplifying it about being accountable,

743
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 3: and there's something incredibly valuable about meeting things head on

744
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 3: and as early and as quickly as possible.

745
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 2: And I just think there's a lot of merit to that, and.

746
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: So bravo, no thank you.

747
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 4: I've I just feel that again, it's like, if I've

748
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 4: made mistakes, then I want to own up to them,

749
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 4: you know, And certainly it takes two to tango. I mean,

750
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 4: I should have never crossed the professional boundary that I

751
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 4: did originally with a client, and so I understand that, like,

752
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 4: had I just you know, had a hard and fast rule,

753
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 4: this would have been all avoidable. But you know again,

754
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 4: I'm like, look, I'm human, and the whole point of

755
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 4: this is more just to share my story and hopes

756
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 4: that it, you know, it deters other people from doing

757
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 4: something similar or also it maybe leads to other people

758
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 4: getting justice, which it will.

759
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 1: It's not just my.

760
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 4: Story, you know, there's at least three other victims, and

761
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 4: so they're receiving justice as well.

762
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, at what point did you realize that there were

763
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: other victims?

764
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I found out when she went public, less than

765
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 4: twenty four hours. It was probably honestly, when she went public,

766
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 4: it was like two hours later. I got a DM

767
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 4: from now wife of the other victim, and she said,

768
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 4: you need to look into this court case.

769
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: You're not the only one.

770
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. So she really created her own demise.

771
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 2: I mean she.

772
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, her going public, I'll never forget because the reporter

773
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 4: she said, maybe her going public will be the best

774
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 4: thing that ever happened to you, And I said, I said, yeah, sure, whatever,

775
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 4: I said, just have I was pissed. I'm like, yeah,

776
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 4: you can fee me your bullshit because you're just trying

777
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 4: to justify you released this article, but you don't care

778
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 4: about me and my well being. But she was right,

779
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 4: you know she it definitely led to her demise. It

780
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 4: was the best thing she could have done, was go public,

781
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 4: because it instantly switched the narrative the second.

782
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: That she went public.

783
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 4: I then went and found the court case the next day,

784
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 4: and then I posted about it online to lead people to.

785
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: The case.

786
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 4: I just all I said was, hey, there's there's another

787
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 4: case against the same individual in the Phoenix court system.

788
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 4: And then, you know, because that was the truth, and

789
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 4: then people went racing to go pull dig up the

790
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 4: information and that was it.

791
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 2: And so did you feel supported by the Bachelor Nation

792
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 2: and all of your fans at that point?

793
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,280
Speaker 1: That's when the narrative switched.

794
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I wouldn't say like I felt so. Well,

795
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 4: I've learned this that like Bachelor Nation, if we're talking

796
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 4: about other contestants, you know, men and women, I didn't

797
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 4: receive a lot of support, but that's also because I

798
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 4: didn't put a lot of effort into relationships post show.

799
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 4: I isolated myself from that whole environment. I was so

800
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 4: upset with how the show went and I didn't feel

801
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 4: I was depicted fairly, and I just really I had

802
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 4: a bad taste in my mouth about the whole experience,

803
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 4: and so I avoided just interacting with people from the show.

804
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 4: Everything was bad. If it was Bachelor related, it was

805
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 4: bad in my mind.

806
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: So, you know, I was an outcast.

807
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 4: I guess that I had created that myself, and I

808
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 4: went to Phoenix and I didn't get involved in that scene.

809
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 4: So whenever it came time to, you know, people were

810
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 4: to stand up and support me. Like most of the

811
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 4: people were like, well, he doesn't really interact with us,

812
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 4: and I don't know the guy, so why would I

813
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 4: step into the middle of this.

814
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: So I didn't have a lot of like support, But

815
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: that was my own doing.

816
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 4: You know, because I wasn't you know, fostering those relationships

817
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 4: as far as like the fans of the show. I know,

818
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 4: I got a lot of blowback online when the scandal

819
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 4: first came out.

820
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: There were a lot of people that wanted it to be.

821
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 4: True because they wanted it furthered their narrative that I

822
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 4: was this bad guy that they all believed me to be.

823
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 4: He's a monster, this tracks he you know, he is

824
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 4: with the guy we saw on TV. He's just a

825
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 4: bad person. Like this, that's what and here you go,

826
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 4: this is what happens. You know, this is what bad

827
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 4: people do. So they all went after me with their

828
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 4: pitchforks right out the gate. When I was able to

829
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 4: turn the narrative and show the truth, they all acted

830
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 4: like nothing happened.

831
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: Or they ignored the whole They ignored it, or.

832
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 4: Some of them are like, oh, we weren't even like

833
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 4: we we we supported him right away, like they're they're

834
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 4: revisionists you know history.

835
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they're acting like they were all sudden supporting me.

836
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 4: I'm like, because you all can't take accountability and just

837
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 4: admit that you wanted to see me fail, because that

838
00:39:58,840 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 4: would have you that you.

839
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: Have tomit, that you were wrong and that you were

840
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: that you and they don't want to do that.

841
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 4: So there's just something a lot of people online that

842
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 4: weren't accountable that basically just said like, oh, whatever, this

843
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 4: girl's crazy, Like let's not talk about I even saw

844
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 4: this narrative. Well, let's not talk about this woman needs

845
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 4: serious help, So like, let's not highlight this.

846
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, oh, so you want to.

847
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 4: You wanted to push this all out there and defame

848
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 4: me and read the articles and post them online. But

849
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 4: the second that, all of a sudden, I'm I'm innocent.

850
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 4: Oh like, guys, let's not shine light on this because like,

851
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 4: this woman needs help and we shouldn't really, you know,

852
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 4: we shouldn't make this worse than what it is.

853
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,399
Speaker 3: It was both that's such a complicated line of you know,

854
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 3: mental health and accountability and criminal.

855
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 2: Like it's yeah, I can just.

856
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 3: Imagine how how that went, So, what do you if

857
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 3: someone listening is facing a false accusation like similar, what

858
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 3: advice would you give them?

859
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, first I would I would make sure

860
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 4: that you have an adequate support system in place, because

861
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 4: I think a lot of this, well a lot of

862
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 4: your emotional energy is going to go towards.

863
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: Fighting this individual.

864
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 4: Of course, you have to assess how seriously they're they're

865
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 4: going to fight you, you know, if if if you know,

866
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 4: so there's levels, if if they're just going to send

867
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 4: you some messages, block them, you know, if if they

868
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 4: obviously show up to your house called the cops. You know,

869
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 4: I mean, make sure that you're protected. If you need

870
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 4: to get an order protection, do that. But I do

871
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 4: I think that you should go straight to getting an

872
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 4: order protection, straight to taking them to court, straight to

873
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 4: you know, defamation. No, because I think, of course, like

874
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 4: if you do that to somebody that's texting you, and

875
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 4: you ramp up the you know, all of a sudden,

876
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 4: the severity of it, like you can piss them off,

877
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 4: you know, and that's where you have to It's like

878
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 4: you don't fight fire with fire per se, until like

879
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 4: fire is the only thing you can fight with. I

880
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 4: think you know someone going through something similar, it's like, hey,

881
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 4: just try to let it subside, you know, just stop

882
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 4: interacting with them, block their phone number, if they email you,

883
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 4: block their email. Make sure like that, you know, you

884
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 4: have a good support system in place to keep your

885
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 4: emotions at base, so you don't.

886
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 1: Keep suppressing all this.

887
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 4: I have an outlet to get out, like your struggles

888
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 4: and so the things you're feeling, because you don't want

889
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 4: to push those down because otherwise they'll bubble up and

890
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 4: then and then just from there and then and then

891
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 4: react accordingly. There does come a point where if you're

892
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 4: fighting against somebody that is not going to let it go,

893
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 4: then I do believe there's that point where you go, okay,

894
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 4: I'm switching from reactive to proactive.

895
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: And that's what I did.

896
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 4: I got to a point where I said, you know,

897
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 4: I'm tired of being reactive.

898
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: This woman is not going to stop. I have to

899
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:33,760
Speaker 1: now take charge.

900
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 4: I have to get ahead of her game and put

901
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 4: the pressure on her by being becoming proactive. So I

902
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 4: hired a legal team and filed and in the court

903
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 4: to get her to prove that she was pregnant. And

904
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 4: and that's where things switched all of a sudden. I

905
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 4: was like, no, we're not playing your game. We're going

906
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 4: to play my game.

907
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 3: Right, going from de escalating it actually escalating it. Like

908
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 3: that's that fine line, right, figuring out which is which?

909
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 2: So what do you hurt? The trial is now set

910
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 2: for July.

911
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 3: What are you expecting from the upcoming trial? And what

912
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 3: will moving on look?

913
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: Like? What I'm hoping is for justice in the form

914
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: of prison time.

915
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 4: I do At this point, she's still she said she's

916
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 4: not guilty, so that's that's the claim she's going with.

917
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 4: She's not you know, I don't think she's taking a

918
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 4: plea at this point. I haven't heard that she is,

919
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 4: so no accountability has still been taken. So I want

920
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 4: her to face charges. So that's, you know, to me,

921
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 4: what does that look like? I mean, sometime in federal prison.

922
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 4: If she's facing fifty seven years. I don't anticipate expect

923
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 4: her to get fifty seven years, but she better not

924
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 4: get off, you know, with with no jail time. I mean,

925
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 4: because look like, ultimately I can't persuade, you know, I

926
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 4: can share my story and I can testify, but if

927
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 4: the county attorney just lets her get will you testify.

928
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,439
Speaker 2: Do you know yet you have to? You will?

929
00:43:57,719 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely am.

930
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 4: But here thing like if I don't if it gets off,

931
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 4: if she gets off with a slap on the wrist

932
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 4: and like this, will she will do it again? And sure,

933
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 4: and then not only will she do it again, but

934
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 4: someone that's following this will go, oh, so you can

935
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 4: just get away with all this and waste people's time

936
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 4: and not face any accountability. And this will set up

937
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 4: the next round of perpetrators. Right, So the you know,

938
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 4: the kind of attorney has to make an example out

939
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 4: of her if they want the court system to be

940
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 4: taken seriously, because if she gets off, you've just showed

941
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 4: that the judicial system has no accountability and there's no

942
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 4: you know, as long as you just keep lying and

943
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 4: lying and lying, there's you know, there's no punishment to

944
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 4: be had.

945
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,280
Speaker 1: So I don't see that happening.

946
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 4: I really do believe Rachel Mitchell, I mean, has pursued

947
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 4: her and has pursued her hard, and is continually stacking.

948
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: More and more charges.

949
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 4: I've even heard that there's potentially more coming on top

950
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 4: of the fourteen.

951
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 3: I also read that her parents they had filed for

952
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 3: bankruptcy and there was all sorts of discrepancies about what

953
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 3: they were going to be using the money for, and

954
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 3: they you know, in insinuating that perhaps they were going

955
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 3: to use it for her legal defense. And so it

956
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 3: does seem as though they're they're trying to make everyone

957
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 3: accountable to some degree.

958
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I mean her I just actually found out

959
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 4: today that her parents' house is up for auction. So

960
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 4: I mean, they they are completely over leveraged from what

961
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 4: I understand. You know, they are in heavy debt, they

962
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 4: don't they don't have the money they used to have anymore,

963
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 4: and so you know, they're why they're liquidating the home.

964
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 4: That means because they're not paying their mortgage, is my understanding.

965
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 4: And so yeah, I mean assets are getting liquidated, and

966
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 4: you know, the curtain is falling. So I mean, accountabilities

967
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 4: is seemingly on the way. I'd be shocked if we

968
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 4: you know, if if if at the end of July,

969
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 4: if if she was able to walk freely.

970
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 2: I will be surprised as well if that happens.

971
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 4: And then I'll become an advocate for for you know,

972
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 4: victims like me, And I'm like, look like I don't

973
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 4: want to do that, but I'm like, if if, if

974
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 4: it gets to that point where like she gets off

975
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 4: Scott free, it's it's definitely something that I've then considered, like,

976
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 4: do I start advocating, do I start going for pushing

977
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 4: for new legislation. I mean, I don't really because to me,

978
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 4: this like it would make me sick to my stomach

979
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 4: and I would be extremely angry at the court system.

980
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 4: I don't want to Again, I have nothing but great

981
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 4: things to say about the court system right now. Is

982
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 4: not so much about the time the slowness. Certainly could

983
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 4: it could speed up, it could have a little bit

984
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 4: of a faster process, but outside of that, we've got,

985
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 4: you know, things have worked in our favors. So I'm like, look,

986
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 4: I'm fine with this working at a snail's pace as

987
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 4: long as we get the justice.

988
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 1: But we get right.

989
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 4: I mean, how many other people out there you hear

990
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 4: about this where they go to court and they you know,

991
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 4: they lose and it's like there's no accountability. I just

992
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 4: think it's it's a point where it's like, guys, like

993
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 4: we need to have like there needs.

994
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 1: To be punishment for people that do stuff like this.

995
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 4: So so yeah, I agree, optimistic. I am actually, you

996
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 4: really do believe that she's going to I mean the

997
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 4: fact that she's facing fifty seven years.

998
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: I didn't think we're going to get to that amount, right.

999
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 3: Well, people can hear all of the details, all the

1000
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 3: media details of this on your new podcast, Love Trapped

1001
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 3: Owens the Eckard and the first episode drops today and

1002
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 3: Clayton cool, first two, first two. Clayton, thank you so

1003
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 3: much for you know, in all honesty, I didn't know

1004
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 3: that much about this before I knew that we were

1005
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 3: going to speak, and then the more I read, the

1006
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 3: further my jaw was dropping on to the desk, like

1007
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,439
Speaker 3: I just, uh so, I'm sorry for all that you've

1008
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 3: been through and I really appreciate you being here.

1009
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: Today and I hope that this all goes the right

1010
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: direction for you.

1011
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for giving me a platform. Again.

1012
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 4: It just helps to get the story out so that

1013
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 4: way justice will have a higher chance of getting sir.

1014
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 2: So thank you, all right, thank you