1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: First of all, my first question is who bribed Hunter 3 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Biden to be here today? 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 2: That's my first question. 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: Second question, You are the epitome of white privilege, coming 6 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: into the Oversight Committee, spitting in our face, ignoring a 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: congressional subpoena to be deposed. What are you afraid of? 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: You have no balls to come up here, mister chairman. 9 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 2: Point of inquiry. 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: Mister Chairman, If the General. 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: If the General lady wants to hear from Hunter Biden, 12 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 2: we can hear from him right now, mister Chairman, Let's. 13 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 3: Take a vote and hear from Hunter Biden. 14 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: Order those Republicans. We're having a hearing on holding Hunter 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: Biden in contempt of Congress for defying a congressional subpoena 16 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 1: to sit for a closed door deposition. When, surprise, surprise, 17 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: the President's son arrived at the Oversight Committee hearing and 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: sat in the audience with his legal team, sending the 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: panel into chaos. Biden has refused to sit for a 20 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: closed door deposition, but his attorney, Abby Lowell said his 21 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: client isn't afraid of speaking, He just wants to answer 22 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: lawmaker's questions in a public format where his words won't 23 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: be taken out of context. 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 3: Hunter chose a hearing where Republicans or could not distort, manipulate, 25 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 3: or misuse that testimony. 26 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: Joining me is someone who saw the frenzy firsthand. Bloomberg 27 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: News congressional reporter Billy House. Billy give us the background 28 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: for what happened today. 29 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 4: So two House committees are going to recommend that the 30 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 4: entire the full House take a vote probably next week 31 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 4: on whether to hold Hunter Biden in contempt of Congress. 32 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 4: So those hearings to hold that committee level vote were 33 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 4: occurring today, and suddenly Hunter Biden showed up. And this 34 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 4: was kind of ironic because the whole issue was, or 35 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 4: is that Hunter Biden has declined to test fight privately. 36 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 4: He has said he would testify publicly, but leaders of 37 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 4: the Oversight and Judiciary Committee say he is not allowed 38 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 4: to dictate the terms of a subpoena testimony request. So 39 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 4: that's where we are. He showed up and his people 40 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 4: said he's ready to testify in public, but the committee said, no, 41 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 4: we want you to testify first privately. And so that 42 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 4: was this odd situation where the committees are moving ahead 43 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 4: with contempt recommendation for him deciding not to testify privately. 44 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if this committee is worse than other 45 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: House committees, but it seemed like it was totally out 46 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: of control. 47 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 4: Oh. The members on this committee are some of those 48 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 4: names that many people can recognize, Ralph the Bat, including 49 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 4: Marjorie Taylor, MTG. Green, and others who often quip and 50 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 4: say what they at the top of their mind. And 51 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 4: that's what happened this morning, many of them hurling insults 52 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 4: at the Hunter Biden camp for him being there and asking, 53 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 4: you know, weird questions about why he's there but he 54 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 4: won't testify privately. Yeah, it was quite a scene. 55 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: It's kind of odd to have a contempt citation for 56 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: someone who says he'll testify. 57 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 4: Well, that's precisely the weirdness of this, and it's not 58 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 4: that it wasn't weird enough. Here's the issue. Hunter Biden 59 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 4: showing up today may have actually in some ways helped 60 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 4: the Republican arguments that he should first appear for private questioning. 61 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 4: Their whole argument is that he and his lawyer Abby 62 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 4: Lowell want to show up and testified publicly because they 63 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 4: want to make a spectacle out of it now and 64 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 4: then that there are answers they need first in initial 65 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 4: private questionings without a circus. Now, the other claim could be, well, 66 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 4: he's here now, he's ready asked him those questions. So 67 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 4: that's the kind of the tension that's evolving here. But essentially, 68 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 4: members of Congress say they're allowed to set the terms 69 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 4: of their subpoena, and their subpoena says, hey, you first 70 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 4: initially show up for private questioning. 71 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: And Representative Jared Moscow it's a Democrat from Florida, went 72 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: through a list of and he had the paperwork of 73 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: subpoenas that House Republicans haven't complied with. 74 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 4: Well, that's absolutely true. You might remember when Democrats were 75 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 4: in charge of the Chamber last session, there was a 76 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 4: flurry of Trump and January sixth related contempt movements against 77 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 4: Mark Meadows, John's former chief of staff Steve Bannon. None 78 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 4: of them complied. A lot of them were referred as 79 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 4: this could be to the Justice Department for prosecution. And 80 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 4: he is absolutely correct. Contempt has become another way, like 81 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 4: impeachment of punishments that used to be rare but now 82 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 4: seem to be almost modus operenda. 83 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: Another thing is that Hunter Biden is being investigated and 84 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: is facing federal prosecutions, so it even seems unusual for 85 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: his attorney to allow him to testify in any format. 86 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 4: Well that's a very good point too. He faces at 87 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 4: least two criminal indictments on his own. This really doesn't 88 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 4: touch on those issues, though. What's that issue here with 89 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 4: this subpoena request is for Hunter Biden to talk about 90 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 4: his family's business dealings and the House reimpeachment effort to 91 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 4: try to see if there was any linkage to the 92 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 4: President himself in benefiting his family through his position at 93 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 4: the White House. 94 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: And have House Republicans found any evidence linking Joe Biden 95 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: so far to date? 96 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 4: Absolutely none. And mind you, this has been an investigation 97 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 4: that's been formal since impeachment investigation since December, but actually 98 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 4: the Oversight Committee in the House especially has been conducting 99 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 4: investigation into this for over a year. 100 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen the subject of a hearing, a 101 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: committee hearing on contempt actually show up? 102 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 4: You know, I haven't, And that was interesting. As brash 103 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 4: of personalities, as I've mentioned, Steve Bannon, Mark Meadows, Peter Navarro, 104 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 4: some of the Trump Aids, even former Attorney General William Barr. 105 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 4: None of those guys and gals ever showed up for 106 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 4: this sort of thing, So Hunter Biden did. Whether that 107 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 4: kind of amplifies what Republicans claim he is more into 108 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 4: creating a circus, or whether he's legitimately saying, hey, I'm here, 109 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 4: I'm ready to answer questions. Let's get it done. You know, 110 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 4: that's up for debate on the both sides of the aisle. 111 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: And I have to say, the language of some of 112 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: the Republican Committee members, the way they talked about Hunter 113 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: Biden was just very low and crass. I mean, they 114 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: really had no respect for him at all. 115 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 4: Oh. Absolutely. I won't say it's an all time low, 116 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 4: but it was incredibly jarring to hear some of that language. 117 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 4: And I think it reflects some of the membership in 118 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 4: the modern House Republican conference, but it also reflects some 119 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 4: of the frustration they've had at being unable to really 120 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 4: find anything linking the President to Hunter Biden and his 121 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 4: other family members's finances. 122 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: This was a stunt by Hunter Biden and his attorney. 123 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,119 Speaker 1: But I'm wondering what your take is on how this 124 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: is for Biden himself to have even more attention on 125 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: his son for this stunt. 126 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 4: That also is a very good question. I don't know, 127 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 4: but Paul seemed to suggest this certainly isn't helping President Biden. 128 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 4: How much harm it's doing as opposed to the President's 129 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,679 Speaker 4: problems on the border and maybe government funding and maybe 130 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 4: it is hard to tell, but this episode, in this 131 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 4: droning on about Hunter Biden and family finances is certainly 132 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 4: not helping the president. 133 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: And what stage is the impeachment inquiry. 134 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 4: At Well, it's still said to be and it's the 135 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 4: initial stage, but Judiciary Committee Chairman Jim Jordan has suggested 136 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 4: that as early as February, actual hearings on an impeachment 137 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 4: could begin. Now that's going to take a call from 138 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 4: Speaker Mike Johnson letter to proceed to that point and 139 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 4: elective damage that could do. Who's so called swing district 140 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 4: Republicans in areas that Biden actually won in the last election, 141 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 4: they voted to hold the impeachment inquiry, but none of 142 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 4: them necessarily one an actual impeachment proceeding to occur. That 143 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 4: remains to be played out. 144 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: Jim Jordan, head of the Judiciary Committee, another person who 145 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: ignored a subpoena. Do you think they have the votes 146 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: in the full House to hold Hunter Biden in contempt? 147 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 4: It comes down, I believe, to those seventeen or so. 148 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 4: As I mentioned swing district Republicans. Remember Mike Johnson. Right now, 149 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 4: the Speaker can only lose two Republican votes on anything, 150 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,119 Speaker 4: impeachment or anything. If he loses more than that, because 151 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 4: of the razor thin edge he has in the majority, 152 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 4: that measure does not pass. So only three Republicans have 153 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 4: to get wobbly need on impeachment for it not to 154 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 4: be able to move forward. 155 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: Finally, I've been reading that the tenure of Johnson is 156 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: tenuous at this point? Is he having problems already? 157 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 4: It's really remarkable. There are a series of meetings this week, 158 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 4: including this morning, private meetings where he was being hit 159 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 4: by very angry Republican colleagues about not doing enough to 160 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 4: cut spending or are tried to cut spending, or do 161 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 4: on the border. He's already getting hammered, and some far 162 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 4: right Republicans like Chip Roy of Texas are already floating 163 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 4: the old motion of AKP, the method that they got 164 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 4: rid of former Speaker Kevin McCarthy for cooperating with Democrats 165 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 4: for so it's already sounding bad. Whether they actually go 166 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 4: ahead with something against Johnson is unclear. 167 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 1: It's an exciting time to cover the house. Billy, thank 168 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: you so much. 169 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 4: Thank you. 170 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: That's Billy House, Bloomberg News Congressional reporter. Coming up next 171 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg Law Show, we'll look at the groups 172 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: behind the efforts to remove Trump from the ballot, and 173 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: especially behind the Colorado case that the Supreme Court will 174 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: be considering. Billionaire Russian oligarch Dmitri Rye Bulovlev owns a 175 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: Greek island, a Monaco soccer team, a super yacht, of course, 176 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: and real estate around the world. Also owns a world 177 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 1: class art collection with paintings by Picasso, Van go Gogan, 178 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: and Monet, among others. These days, he's spending his time 179 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: in a New York courtroom where he's suing Southeby's for 180 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: more than two hundred thirty million dollars. Rye Balivlev claims 181 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: that Southeby's helped a Swiss art dealer, Eve Bouvier, dupe 182 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: him out of hundreds of millions of dollars because the 183 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 1: dealer bought artworks through Sotheby's and then turned around and 184 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: sold them to Rye Bolivlev at markups worth tens of 185 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: millions of dollars. In its defense, Southeby says it had 186 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: no idea that Bouvier was lying to rite Bolivlev about 187 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: protracted negotiations with sellers to get the billionaire to overpay 188 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: for four masterpieces, and what Bouvier did after he bought 189 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: the art was not the auction house's business. Joining me, 190 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: his Bloomberg legal reporter Chryst Omesh, who's covering the trial, 191 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: give us a sort of a look into these seiks 192 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: creative art world deals. 193 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 3: It's interesting, while this is the art world and it's 194 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 3: kind of inherently secret just in the way it operates, 195 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 3: maybe some of our listeners might see the parallels to say, 196 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 3: bond trading and things like that, where there's no there's 197 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 3: no exchange or central exchange that you can look up 198 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 3: the prices of a Picasso or a da Vinciet. You know, 199 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 3: it undergoes an evaluation process by auction houses like souther 200 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 3: B's and by private actors, and you know, often some 201 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 3: of the participants don't really want to have their identities 202 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 3: out there at any point in the process, they just 203 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 3: want to sell the work. So therefore it can kind 204 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 3: of lead to this kind of opaque market where you 205 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 3: don't really know what the true valueable work is until 206 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 3: you know somebody buys it. I mean, that's really the 207 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 3: true value of it is somebody is willing to pay 208 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 3: a certain amount of money for the work, and that 209 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 3: has led, you know, through the years. I mean, there's 210 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 3: certainly other cases where collectors have felt that they were 211 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 3: misled by dealers as to you know, how much they 212 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 3: paid for something like that. But this case is really 213 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 3: at the high end of the art market. And I 214 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 3: mean we're talking about at da Vinci, that was the 215 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 3: most expensive artwork ever sold. And needless to say, you 216 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 3: don't often see Russian billionaires on the stand in federal 217 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 3: court in New York. So that alone makes it a 218 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 3: fascinating case. And to kind of have just the art 219 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,599 Speaker 3: world laid bare for an audience in federal court is 220 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 3: really really interesting. 221 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: So tell us what Rybalavlev's claim is. 222 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 3: So he claims, and he's claimed all along, that this 223 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 3: was this was a that this was a massive fraud 224 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 3: poisted on him by Yves Bouvier, who is his art 225 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 3: dealer for many, many years and who was arrested in 226 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 3: twenty fifteen as he was going to the billionaire's apartment 227 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 3: in Monaco, thinking he was completing a deal for a 228 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 3: Mark Rothko painting, and that he was arrested. And it's 229 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 3: been almost a decade of various legal maneuvers. The dealer 230 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 3: and rybalavled have settled. They settled late last year so 231 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 3: that he's no longer involved in the case. But essentially, 232 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 3: he alleges that auction house helped the dealer kind of 233 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 3: mislead him into these deals by providing documents supported the 234 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 3: valuations that he claims were excessive and allowed the dealer 235 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 3: to pocket, you know, more than a billion dollars in 236 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 3: improper payment that he wasn't aware was being paid. Essentially, 237 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 3: he says, you know that he would just buy these 238 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 3: things in private, pretend he was negotiating with the sellers, 239 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 3: and then just sell it to him while making up 240 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 3: a whole line of talks about acquiring the painting. 241 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: It seems like it's odd for the jury to see 242 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: him suing Southby's when the man who is at the 243 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: heart of this is not in the courtroom. 244 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 3: For sure, and That's what Southeby's is hanging its hat 245 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 3: on here, is that they say, you know, this is 246 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 3: a billionaire, and this is a guy who does regularly 247 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 3: large transactions five a lot of art owns the Monaco 248 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 3: soccer team and should have been, you know, familiar. He 249 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 3: should have done his own due diligence, rather than relying 250 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 3: on the statements of an art dealer who one could 251 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 3: easily suspect might have a different interest, especially when he 252 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 3: doesn't know all the parties involved in the negotiation. 253 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: In the opening statements, did they discuss the settlement that 254 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: he made with Bouvier. 255 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's the settlement itself, not really, it's 256 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 3: just kind of you know, they allude to the fact 257 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 3: that he's not going to be there, and that even 258 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 3: though his name is really the center of the case, 259 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 3: that he is not a defendant and he's not involved. 260 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: And Bouvier's lawyer's point to the fact that ry Balovlev 261 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: did not win the legal actions he brought against Boovia 262 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: in jurisdictions around the world Monaco, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Geneva, 263 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: and also federal prosecutors were looking into Bouvier and dropped 264 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: the case. 265 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 3: Yes, at some point the prosecutors here in Southern District 266 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 3: from New York Its spent more than a year building 267 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 3: a case against the dealer. But then after Rybalavlev sold 268 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 3: the da Vinci work for the record amount four hundred 269 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 3: and fifty million, more than triple what he paid, we 270 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 3: reported that indeed that if they had dropped the probe, 271 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 3: saying that there was no real way that they could 272 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 3: prove criminality. 273 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: And that is also my question here. Rybalavlev is seeking 274 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: more than two hundred and thirty two and a half 275 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: million dollars in damages. He sold that da Vinci for 276 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: four hundred and fifty million, more than triple what he paid. 277 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: Is he deducting that there's a certain. 278 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 3: Amount of deduction going on, Yes, but not really. I 279 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 3: mean he's going for specifically the overcharges, the amounts that 280 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 3: they paid that essentially the bouvia packed on to the 281 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 3: end to make a false profit. So they're not really 282 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 3: looking to recoup any money that they paid or that 283 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 3: they didn't make. But yeah, I mean that's a that 284 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 3: is the elephant in the room, correct, is the fact 285 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 3: that the dealer is not there, so it will probably 286 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 3: be difficult for the jury to determine really whether he 287 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 3: was misled. It's probably like that there's going to be 288 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 3: a split verdict. 289 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: You're already anticipating a split verdict. 290 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 3: Well, it just seems ripe for it. I mean, you 291 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 3: can never really predict what's going to happen in the 292 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 3: criminal case. But given you you're dealing with five different 293 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 3: transactions involving four artworks, it's possible that they may see 294 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 3: miss they misled him in certain ones and not in 295 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 3: the others. But it's also possible they may not see 296 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 3: that at all. 297 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: Another elephant in the room is that this is a 298 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: Russian billionaire suing over hundreds of millions of dollars in 299 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: art deals. He's not a very sympathetic plaintiff. 300 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 3: It's hard to say. You never know what a jury's 301 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 3: in the way a jury's gonna look and a person 302 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 3: like this. But it's like I said, it's not every 303 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 3: day you have a Russian billionaire on the stand, and 304 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 3: just to have him testifying is amazingly interesting. It's just 305 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 3: fascinating to watch him be on the stand. We just 306 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 3: don't have that kind of level of insight into the 307 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 3: art world in general, much less. 308 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: Russian all, Yeah, has he been on the stand already? 309 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 3: No, he will think the stand probably next week. They've 310 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 3: kind of been edging. They say he's got some sort 311 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 3: of medical problem or physical problem that doesn't allow him 312 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 3: to sit more than three hours at a time, So 313 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 3: he will be on the stand. They said he will 314 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 3: definitely take the stand yesterday. 315 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: So what did they have to prove against Southeby's that 316 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: they knew what was going on? 317 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 3: Yes Essentially that they knew that there was a fraud, 318 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 3: That they knew that mister Bouvier was defrauding the billionaire 319 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 3: and that there's no way he could have known that, 320 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 3: and that they helped him. 321 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: Even if Southeby's knew that he was selling the work 322 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: for more money than he paid for it is Southeby's 323 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: required to tell to tell Ribolovlev about that. 324 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 3: Well, I don't know if it's so much that as 325 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 3: they helped him create documents that supported the valuations that 326 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 3: they say were overcharging him, and that he relied on 327 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 3: those documents. You know, Southeby's arguments, they didn't have any 328 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 3: none of his fraud or breach of fiduciary duty or 329 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 3: about any of his lies about the prices he paid 330 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 3: and that they didn't help him. 331 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: Do you know what kind of evidence he has to 332 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: show that Southby's new So so far. 333 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 3: They've been presenting a number of the deal documents for 334 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 3: each of the works. Some of them are contracts, some 335 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 3: of them are simply invoices that they would pay. At 336 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 3: some point they decided that it was more efficient to 337 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 3: handle these purchases through straight in voice paying rather than 338 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 3: having a contract that delineated the duties of Bouvier. You 339 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 3: know that may have come out in the settlement. You 340 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 3: know that may have been one of the reasons they 341 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 3: settled is that he had no contractual duty to the 342 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 3: billionaire to tell him everything here that he was acting 343 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 3: in his arm's length and not necessarily as his agent. 344 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 3: But if they can prove that Bouvier was acting directly 345 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 3: as an agent of ry balablev and was lying to 346 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 3: him at the same time, they could possibly find Bees liable. 347 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: The judge, in an order last March, urge the lawyers 348 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: to work toward a settlement to avoid a trial that 349 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: would be quote expensive, risky, and potentially embarrassing to both sides. 350 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: I could see the embarrassment to Southerby's. What would be 351 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: the embarrassment to Ribololev. 352 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 3: Well, there's always the potential for any court case to 353 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,479 Speaker 3: kind of reveal unseemly details of your life or of 354 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 3: purchases you've made or things you've done, and that seems 355 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 3: to be pretty limited here. It doesn't look like they're 356 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 3: going to be going beyond the scope. But I think 357 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 3: the judges often say, look, this is not going to 358 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 3: be a great outcome for either party if we go 359 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 3: to trial, and that's kind of that supports you know 360 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 3: when I say that there may be a split verdict here, 361 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 3: because often in civil cases it's not a total wind 362 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 3: to one side or the other. It's a mixed bag. 363 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 3: It can sometimes reveal secrets you don't want to be revealed, 364 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,719 Speaker 3: and sometimes you don't at the money you want. In 365 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 3: this case, this is kind of the billionaire's last shot 366 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 3: at getting anything from this entire episode that's lasted over 367 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 3: more than a decade. Because they settled with Bouvier, Virtually 368 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 3: all of the investigations that have gone on overseas have ended, 369 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 3: so this is really last shot. 370 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: Would this be a great stain on Southby's if they're found. 371 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 3: Liable, Well, it's an auction house that relies on its reputation. 372 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 3: For sure. It's hard to say whether you know the 373 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 3: outcome of one trial would permanently tarnish that reputation. But 374 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 3: it's certainly not something that I think that they would 375 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 3: that they would like to have out there, especially as 376 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 3: they continue to court potential customers and other clients. 377 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: How long is the trial expected to last. 378 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 3: It's probably gonna last at least a month. This is 379 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 3: a rare case where we have greatly varying estimates of 380 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 3: how long they think it will need the defendance. They 381 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 3: get to take as much as seven weeks, but that 382 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 3: would be hard to see. 383 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: Wow, that seems like a long time. No wonder the 384 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: judge wanted them to settle it. Thanks so much, Chris. 385 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: That's Chris Domash, Bloomberg Legal reporter. Donald Trump's removal from 386 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: primary ballots in Colorado and Maine was a win for 387 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: two activist groups funded largely by liberal donors, that have 388 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: worked methodically to transform a scholarly thought experiment about the 389 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: Fourteenth Amendment into a real world legal strategy. Joining me 390 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg News legal reporter Emily Burnbaum, who's written about 391 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: the groups. Give us a little bit of the history 392 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: of this Fourteenth Amendment effort, which started with legal scholars. 393 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the question of whether Trump could be deemed 394 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 2: an insurrectionist under the fourteenth Amendment has been ongoing essentially 395 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 2: since the events of January sixth. So legal experts have 396 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 2: pointed to section three of the fourteenth Amendment and said, 397 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 2: you know, this could potentially result in Trump being banned 398 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 2: from the ballot, as well as other bombmakers who were 399 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 2: involved in the January sixth Capitol Hill riot. So legal 400 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 2: scholars have been debating it as well as activists. So 401 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 2: that includes the liberal group Free Speech for People as 402 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 2: early as twenty twenty one, if they had initiated a 403 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 2: campaign to get people to submit letters to their Secretaries 404 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 2: of States asking for Trump not to be allowed on 405 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: the ballot. In twenty twenty. 406 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: Four and when did CREW or Citizens for Responsibility and 407 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: Ethics in Washington get involved. 408 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 2: They're a more recent entry into the debate, but they're 409 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 2: very powerful force in Washington. They're really well known, they 410 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 2: have a lot of money compared to a lot of 411 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 2: other advocacy groups, so they got involved more starting last year. 412 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 2: They said, Trump, if you are going to run for 413 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 2: president again, then we're going to oppose you under the 414 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 2: fourteenth Amendment. And so they got involved, particularly in the 415 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 2: Colorado case, which is the case that made it to 416 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court or than probably the most important case 417 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 2: in the country right now. 418 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: How do they raise money? 419 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 2: So CREWE has been around for decades now and the 420 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 2: main source of their funding is some well known liberal philanthropists, 421 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 2: so that includes George Soros. His nonprofits has been giving 422 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 2: to CREWE for you know, over a decade now. They 423 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 2: have gotten money from a lot of different liberal foundations. 424 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 2: And they started off as a staunchly nonpartisan organization, you know, 425 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 2: fighting corruption and government. And around the nineties they became 426 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 2: associated more with. 427 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: The less and what about free speech for people? 428 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 2: Free Seeks for People is a group that was actually 429 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: founded out of the twenty ten Citizens United decision by 430 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. So they were a group founded to 431 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: fight the issue of money in politics. They also have 432 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 2: some pretty well known liberal funders. So the most recent 433 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 2: grants that they've got and most significant grants that they've 434 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 2: gotten have been from Craig Newmark. So he's the founder 435 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 2: of Craigslist. He's known for giving to a lot of 436 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 2: you know, election integrity causes. So they have kind of 437 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 2: changed from twenty ten from a money in politics fighting 438 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: organization to more broadly a fighting corruption and government organization. 439 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: Are the two groups working together or in tandem in 440 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: any way on this fourteenth Amendment issue. 441 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 2: The two of them are definitely aware of one another. 442 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 2: They definitely talk about strategy. You know, we're going to 443 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 2: file here, where are you going to file? But they're 444 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 2: taking pretty different tacks when it comes to what they 445 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 2: think will be the most successful legal strategy. So CREWE 446 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 2: has decided to go all in on Colorado. Colorado has 447 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 2: state level rules that make it easier to oppose someone 448 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 2: being on the ballot. They decided to spend a lot 449 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 2: of time choosing particular plaintiffs in the state, where as 450 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 2: Free Speech for People has decided to take a broader 451 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 2: strategy and launch legal challenges in multiple states. So that 452 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 2: includes Minnesota, Michigan, Illinois, Massachusetts, and so they're going both 453 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 2: through the course and also making direct outreach to secretaries 454 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 2: of state. 455 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit more about how crew orchestrated 456 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: the Colorado challenge, you know, how they decided on the 457 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: plaintiffs and the lawyers. 458 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, so they identified Colorado as their best shot at 459 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 2: getting something across the finish line, essentially due to some 460 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 2: of these state level rules, and so they reached out 461 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 2: to the best known elections lawyer in the state, both 462 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 2: on the Republican side and on the Democratic side, and 463 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 2: those lawyers then reached out to people they've known, particularly 464 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 2: Republicans and unaffiliated voters. They felt like that would give 465 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 2: them the strongest legal arguments, and even some people who 466 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 2: had voted for Trump the last time around who are 467 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 2: saying this time he shouldn't be on the ballot due 468 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 2: to his actions around January sixth, twenty twenty one. So 469 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 2: Crewe was highly involved in getting the lawyers involved, in 470 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 2: helping to do the press around you know, their actions, 471 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 2: and helping to shape the legal arguments. 472 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: We all know that the Supreme Court has taken up 473 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: the Colorado case. Now what part is cru going to 474 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: have in that? 475 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 2: It's cruse case, So they're going to be the one 476 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 2: handling the argument. So a Crewe lawyer is going to 477 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 2: be handling the legal arguments on February eighth, which is 478 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 2: when oral arguments are scheduled for, and they're already hard 479 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 2: at work filing briefed and making the best case to 480 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. 481 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: Did they mention anything about the time pressure, because this is, 482 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: you know, really quick for a Supreme Court case, about 483 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: a month. 484 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. 485 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 2: A lot of people I've spoken to have been very 486 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 2: aware of, you know, the impending election and like this 487 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,199 Speaker 2: is a very time sensitive issue. They've pointed out, you know, 488 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 2: Supreme Court moved really fast when it came to bushby Gore. 489 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 2: They moved really fast, and it came to the Pentagon papers, 490 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 2: and they're definitely hoping they'll move really fast on this 491 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 2: case too, because it is so pressing. So I think 492 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 2: that people were heartened that Gotis took up the case 493 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 2: pretty quickly and scheduled arguments for only a few weeks 494 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 2: from now. 495 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who are going to 496 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: be filing amikas briefs and who probably want to impact 497 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: what Crew does, what its lawyers say in their briefs 498 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: sent through oral arguments. Do you know if Crewe is 499 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: open to advice from some of the legal scholars and experts. 500 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 2: Definitely, they're definitely coordinating really closely with a lot of 501 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 2: the scholars, both liberal and conservative, who have made arguments 502 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: about the Fourteenth amendments, So I get the sense that 503 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 2: they're working really hard to make sure they have good, 504 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 2: solid legal arguments and amateurst briefs that are going to 505 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 2: be filed. 506 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: Does free speech for people have any part in the 507 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: Supreme Court case? 508 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 2: So they're just continuing to file challenges at the state level, 509 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 2: but they do plan to file a brief and to 510 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 2: support the Colorado piece as much as they can. Of course, 511 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 2: any president that comes out of the Supreme Court is 512 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 2: going to shape the state level efforts and you know, 513 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 2: could either bolster their claims or harm them. So I 514 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 2: think right now it's mostly at the level of planning to. 515 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: File a brief and what states are they pushing to 516 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: get Trump off the ballot? 517 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 2: So right now, they file challenges last week in Massachusetts 518 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 2: and Illinois, and we're still waiting on a decision from Oregon. 519 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 2: So those are the states where they've focused the most 520 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 2: resources and attention as of right now. But I think 521 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 2: we can continue to watch more and more challenges filed 522 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 2: in the weeks ahead because they're facing deadlines for filing 523 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 2: these kinds of challenges, and they lost cases in Michigan 524 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 2: and Minnesota already, but they will probably revise those efforts 525 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 2: once we get to the general election, because both courts 526 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 2: said that they could revisit the question, but not in 527 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 2: the primaries. 528 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Emily. That's Bloomberg Legal reporter Emily Burnbaun 529 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: And that's it for this edition of the Bloomberg Law Podcast. 530 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: Remember you can always get the latest legal news by 531 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: subscribing and listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 532 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: and at Bloomberg dot com, slash podcast, slash Law. I'm 533 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,719 Speaker 1: June Grosso and this is Bloomberg