1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A teen boy beloved by 2 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: all of his classmates, everyone in the school, the teachers, 3 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: the principal, his family most of all, is dead by suicide. 4 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: But why a warning to all parents? I mean, see Grace, 5 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 6 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious M one eleven. Take 7 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: a listen to this. It's all short or they're almost 8 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: gonna break it. You can't throw it a little. Podcasts 9 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: picked Offstol the other way. Jordan to me, writing perfectly, 10 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: that's a pick six, first turnover of the game. Jordan 11 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: to me, he was an all American teenager, the homecoming king, 12 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: beloved by his class mates. This is one of those 13 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: cases that I will remember the rest of my life. 14 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: It happened when Jordan received a message on his Twitter 15 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: account that appeared to come from a beautiful teenager who 16 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: said she wanted to be his friend. She even asked 17 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: him to send her a naughty photo. He was suspicious 18 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: and even asked if it was a scam. Assured it wasn't, 19 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: he sent the photo right away. Jordan realized he was 20 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: being blackmailed. They threatened to send the photo to his 21 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: family and all his friends at school. He had to 22 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: get money. They told him a thousand dollars. He said, 23 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: I don't have that. How much do you have? Three 24 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: hundred dollars? We'll get rid of everything. Send that three 25 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: hundred dollars. So he sent it. It didn't stop. It 26 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: just breaks my heart. This tin boy with his whole 27 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: world in front of him, basically tricked into suicide. Why 28 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: and how can we protect our children? Just think about it. 29 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: Think about your child, your baby, Think about your niece, 30 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: your nephew, your grandchild. What if this happened to them? 31 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: What if you're tween girl, say twelve years old, was 32 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: tricked into sending a nude shot or a topless shot 33 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,119 Speaker 1: to somebody she thinks it's her own age. Nobody will 34 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: ever find out. Mom will never know, and then they 35 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: try to extort money out of her. Her frantic search 36 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: to find money. How will I get it? How will 37 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: I send it? Will my mom find out? Well, my 38 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: dad find out? What's gonna happen? What if they send 39 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: this picture to my friends at school? What's gonna happen? 40 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: And like this little boy thought there was no way 41 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: out but suicide, And now his parents are forever without him. 42 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: Can you even imagine what they're going through right now? 43 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 1: It's nothing we want to talk about, but it's something 44 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: we have to confront. Why so it won't happen to 45 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: our children or anybody else's children. With me, an all 46 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of what we know right now? 47 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: Who did this thing to? Jordan? John DeMay With me? 48 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: Doctor Justin Patchen, PhD, Professor Criminal Justice, University Wisconsin, Uclaire 49 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: and co founder of the Cyber Bullying Research Center. He 50 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: is also the author of Bullying Beyond the school Yard. 51 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: Dan ellis attorney with Herman Law in New York and Florida, 52 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: specializing in victims of sex abuse and harassment. Doctor Angela Arnold, 53 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: renowned psychiatrists joining us in the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can 54 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: find her at angela Arnold MD dot com. Doctor Michelle Dupree, 55 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: longtime friend and colleague for a sick pithologist, medical examiner, 56 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: detective and author of the Homicide Investigation Field Guide and 57 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide. Lowell A. Larson, Junior Detective, Lieutenant, 58 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: Marquette County Sheriff's Office, and Kendall Bunch Special guests joining us. 59 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: Lowell and Kendall look Kendall Bunch, Evening anchor w LUCTV six, Kendall, 60 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: I can hardly take it in. Tell me what happened? 61 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: How was this boy discovered dead? So his parents, they 62 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: were in the house Jordians, Jordian's took give him life 63 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: in his own home. They found his body and called 64 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: the police. There are many modes of death. There's accident, homicide, 65 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: natural causes undetermined and suicide. A cause of death would be, 66 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: for instance, gunshot, wound, drowning. What was this little boy's 67 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: cause of death? Kendall? When I talked to the sheriff's 68 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 1: sheriff Gradviber in Marquete County Sheriff UM, he didn't disclose 69 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: that information for me because of how this case is 70 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: still under investigation. There's just some information that he wouldn't 71 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: um disclosed to me. Kendall Bunch is joining me special guests, 72 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: the evening anchor w LUC TV six. Kendall, tell me 73 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: where did this happen? This is Marquette, Michigan. Is it rural? 74 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: Is it urban? Is it suburban? Well? What is it? Marquette, 75 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: Michigan UM is in the Up Upper Michigan UM. The 76 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: Up Upper Peninsula is considered a rural area. Now you 77 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: know what's interesting about that, Kendall Bunch, And I'm so 78 00:05:54,440 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: glad you said that because there is a correct stereotype. Well, 79 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: of course all stereotypes are in correct. There is a 80 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: stereotype that crime cannot happen in a rural area, and 81 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: that is absolutely not true. I mean, my fiancee was 82 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: murdered in a rural area. There's nothing as far as 83 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: the eye could see. It was out on a construction 84 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: site work in construction and left to go get soft 85 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: drinks and came back in and somebody shot him in 86 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere. So I'm glad you're bringing that up, 87 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: Kendall Bunch. Let me go to Lowell A. Larson, Junior 88 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: Detective Lieutenant, Marquette County Sheriff's Office. Lieutenant Larson, can you 89 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: back me up on that or do you disagree? People 90 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: wrongly think crime is not going to happen. It's not 91 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: going to touch your lives in rural areas. We see 92 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: people from the city moved to rural areas because the 93 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: crime may be lower, the crime rate may be a lower, 94 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: but it reaches everywhere, absolutely has no borders. And now 95 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: when you mix in technology, you are now potentially a 96 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: victim for anyone in the world. That's a really good point, 97 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: and it can occur very quickly. I mean before we 98 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: talked about communities and trying to make our communities safe. 99 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: But now with these devices in our hands, we can 100 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: communicate with anyone across the world. We can send them money, 101 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: we can do it all on a very fast timeline 102 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: where no one has time to think. Just like in 103 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: this case, guys, we are talking about the death of 104 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: a beautiful young boy, a teen boy. Now we started 105 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: our program with sound of the Michigan High School Athletic 106 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: Association's Sports where Jordan DeMay did it again. It's picked off. 107 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: It's going the other way. Jordan DeMay read it perfectly. 108 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: That's picked six talking about Jordan DeMay getting a turnover, 109 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: the first turnover of the game, and now he's dead. 110 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: It's hard to say he's dead when you're talking about 111 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: a teen boy in every picture. It just gave me 112 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: chills because in every picture I put as I call 113 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: him big Boy, who's now six six. Did you know that, Jackie, 114 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: he's six six, he's fourteen. He's in the middle of 115 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: every picture with his arm around his sister and I 116 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: look at those pictures and my husband, David and I 117 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: are on either side and we are just beaming. We're 118 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: so proud of John. David and Lucy just I can't 119 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: keep it in And in every picture of him with 120 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: his family, they're just beaming. They're so proud of this boy. 121 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 1: Then you were hearing our friend less Trent an inside 122 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: edition talking about his death. Take a listen to our 123 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: cut eight lets Trent. The pressure kept up to send 124 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: more money. He said, you win, I'm going to kill 125 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 1: myself and they're like, go ahead. So they actually responded 126 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: when he said that he was going to kill himself, 127 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: they responded, go ahead. Yes. From the time Jordan got 128 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: the message until his death just six hours had passed, 129 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: Sheriff Greg Ziebert has a message for teens. This can 130 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: happen to you, and if it does, you need to 131 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: reach out. It's not the end of the world. It's 132 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: not worth taking your life, you know too. Dactor Justin 133 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: Patchen joining us, author of bullying Beyond the School school Yard. 134 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: When you're hearing the words it's not the end of 135 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: the world from the sheriff, of course, us saying it's 136 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: not the end of the world because we're adults, but 137 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: for teens or twins, it feels like the end of 138 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, it does because this is our lives. 139 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, when it comes to these explicit images. We've 140 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: been telling teens now for fifteen years, if you share 141 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: are these images, you're peddling in child pornography. So now 142 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: kids share these images and then people have a lot 143 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: of control over them because they can't turn to the 144 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: police because they're afraid if they go to the police, 145 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: they're going to be arrested for the tea image that 146 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 1: they shared. Time Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, I 147 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: think that you, Lowell Larson Junior and everybody on the panel. 148 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: This is not a tea party. We're not at Windsor 149 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: Castle with Queen Elizabeth. So jump in when you have 150 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: a thought. I can't read your mind over the airways 151 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: talking to you, doctor Auntie Arnold, because I know you've 152 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: got plenty at least starting it with Yell dupree, will 153 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: wait her turn, don't wait your turn, jump in, Lowell Larson. 154 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: I don't think that this boy. Of course, what do 155 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: not just a pat and just said it's absolutely correct. 156 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: Of course they're afraid. They're afraid to go to the 157 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: police because they know they did something quote wrong. But 158 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: I don't know that they think the words, wow, I 159 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: just peddled child pornography. I don't think those words seep in. 160 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: But they know they did something quote unquote wrong. But 161 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: I think it's the fear and the shame. I mean, 162 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: if somebody got ahold of a naked picture of me, 163 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: which Jackie, just so you know, I don't know one 164 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 1: that exists ever, but let's just pretend there was. I 165 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: would be mortified. Mortified. Imagine how a child would feel. 166 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: Oh do you know when Aaron Andrews, she's gorgeous. Some 167 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: perv spie on her through the peepole at her hotel 168 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: when she was working, and she was mortified. She said 169 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: she went into a funk, was just laying around her house. 170 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,719 Speaker 1: I think her parents talked her out of it. She 171 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: was devastated. And that is a grown woman much like 172 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: a child. Lowell Larson, Junior Lieutenant Larson, tell me when 173 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: you first got the call in your involvement in the 174 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: case Chrono Lot. Yeah. I actually I'd like to back 175 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: up real quickly. I wanted to touch on a point 176 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: of I think we have to change the narrative a 177 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: little bit. As we talk about we often tell juveniles 178 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: or kids not to do these types of things, but 179 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: we stop right there. I think we also need to 180 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: have the conversation. But if you do, you have to 181 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: be able to trust your parents or someone else to 182 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: go to and help you out with the situation. You 183 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: know what, You're right, We don't want we don't want people. 184 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: We don't want people thinking I just produced child pornography 185 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: and I can't. I don't know of a prosecutor in 186 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: the country that would prosecute something when you have a 187 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: situation like this and they got themselves in a bad situation. 188 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: I don't know a prosecutor in the country that try 189 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: to prosecute a case like that. So I think it's 190 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: very important for us to change that narrative and make 191 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: sure we spread the message that if you get yourself 192 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: into a problem, and it's not just about sex, storage 193 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: and any type of problem, that suicide is not the answer, 194 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: and that you need to be able to go to 195 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: people for help. I told mine a million ties, Lieutenant Larson, 196 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: if you do something wrong, it doesn't matter, just tell me, 197 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: We'll deal with it. We'll deal with the consequences. And 198 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: I'm on your side, and I don't care what you do. 199 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: Of course, I don't want you to do anything wrong. 200 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: But if something happens and you end up doing something wrong, 201 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: whether it's your fault or it's not your fault, I'm 202 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: on your side. I'm behind We will get through it, 203 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: I promise, Nancy. I think that we also have to always. 204 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: I'm just so upset, doctor Angie because we're talking about 205 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: Jordan DeMay, But I keep putting my son and my 206 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: daughter's head on his body and thinking, of course you do. 207 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: They're so close in the age, and Nancy, we never 208 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 1: really know what our kids are thinking. We never know 209 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: what they're thinking, and oftentimes they're not even honest with 210 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: us if we try to grill them and talk to 211 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: them about what they're thinking. But as parents, we always 212 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: have to remember these kids that are seventeen eighteen years old, 213 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: their little brains are not fully developed, so they're still 214 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: very concrete. Oh my gosh, I did this horrible thing. 215 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: There's no way out. I'm going to kill myself. And 216 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: I see it as a terrible culmination of there's so 217 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: much out there in the world right now about suicide, 218 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: their movies, the TV shows, they can get their hands 219 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: on everything about suicide. And then we also have this, 220 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: oh my god, Oh my god, are you dealing in 221 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: child pornography? These two things come together in their undeveloped 222 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: mind and they think that suicide is the only way 223 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: out of stuff. They're so ashamed and so embarrassed. So 224 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: I want to circle back to where we were. Lieutenant Lawson. 225 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: Tell me about your involvement with the case. When you 226 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: first got the call. What happened? Well, you hear it 227 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: over the radio and there was the age and I 228 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: was told that it was a suicide, and your your 229 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: heart just sinks. And looked at my partner and we 230 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: grabbed the camera or a big camera that we use 231 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: for scenes, and went together and went to the scene. 232 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: And you know, I've been to these scenes before, and 233 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: you just it's just very uncomfortable to be there. But 234 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, you got a job that you gotta do. 235 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: Very difficult when I would go to crime scenes and 236 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: still do to separate your job. What you're there to 237 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: do with your emotions? Were his? Was his family there 238 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: when you got there? Yes? Yes, how are they doing now? 239 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: I really don't know how you can see how they're doing. 240 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: I can't put myself in their shoes. I can only guess. 241 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: But the funeral was just last week, and there's just 242 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: a tremendous outpouring from the community, and I believe as 243 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: of right now, they're very happy that they've come forward 244 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: with the information on the case to potentially save others. 245 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: A Marquette township, a boy is dead. The community mourning 246 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: the death of a high school senior. Investigators believe just 247 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: hours before teen boy Jordan DeMay died, he was the 248 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: victim of blackmail through social media. I want to go 249 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: out to a special guest joining us doctor justin Patch, 250 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: and I understand that he received a picture of a 251 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:06,160 Speaker 1: girl his age, and everybody correct me if I'm wrong. 252 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 1: She may have sent him or someone sent him a 253 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: naked or partially naked photo of a girl and said, hey, 254 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: send me a naughty photo. So at first he was suspicious, 255 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:23,160 Speaker 1: but because he got a semi naked photo of a girl, 256 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: he thought, oh, okay, this is real. It's not some 257 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: sixty five year old guy and another country trying to 258 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: get a naked photo of me. This is real. Is 259 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: that typically how it happens, doctor Patchen. That is typically 260 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: how it happens. And in our research, we've actually surveyed 261 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: over five thousand middle and high school students in two sixteen, 262 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: and we did it again in twenty nineteen, and we 263 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: found that about five percent of these kids have experienced 264 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 1: sex doortion. And that's a big number when you think about, 265 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: you know, the millions of kids. And most of the 266 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 1: time they share an image with somebody they know, a 267 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: friend and or a former romantic partner or romantic interest, 268 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: and then it turns negative and that person asks for 269 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: more or money or threatens to share it. But then 270 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: there are some times where it's just somebody they meet online. 271 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: You know that this scenario is less common now because 272 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 1: of the availability of sort of video chat, and so 273 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: when these kinds of exchanges are made, sometimes they'll get 274 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: on video chat so you can kind of see who 275 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 1: it is versus being you know, some random person in 276 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: a foreign country. But it's just heartbreaking, you know. Dan 277 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: ellis another fact here to throw in everybody. Dan ellis 278 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: attorney with Herman Law. They probably all around the country 279 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: at Herman law dot com. He specializes in victims of 280 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: abuse and harassment in this case, Jordan actually sent some 281 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: money to the prop to stop the perp from sending 282 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: out the naked photo of him. But believe it or not, 283 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: just hours after Jordan's death, we have learned one of 284 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: his friends got the photo. The perp actually did send 285 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: out the seeming naked photos of Jordan. They didn't. Yeah, 286 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 1: that's absolutely right, Nancy. And you know, there's the old 287 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: cliche that you can't negotiate with terrorists, and when it 288 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: comes to cases of extortion, it's really difficult. But you 289 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: can't give into the extortionists demands. You must report it 290 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: to the police or an adult that you trust immediately 291 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: because there's no amount of money you can pay. There's 292 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: nothing you can do to get them to stop once 293 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: they have your claws, and once they have their claws 294 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 1: in you, you really just become a human ATM machine 295 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: for these criminals. So that's why education is so important 296 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: in these cases, and kids need to know that to 297 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: bear the victim of crimes, they need to report it immediately. 298 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: And the reality is once you put it on the internet, 299 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: it's there. One of the twins little friends that had 300 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: gone off to another school, we heard from like three 301 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: years later and she was just a little girl, had 302 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: sent somebody a naked photo, and it was everybody in 303 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: the whole community now knows she sent a naked photo. 304 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: It's just Nancy. You know that once you put it 305 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: out there, it's out there, Nancy. The problem is these 306 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: kids are believing that that's not the case with the 307 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: photo of staying out there in the internet because they 308 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: utilize snapchat and they believe that once a person views it, 309 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: it goes away and you will be notified if you 310 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: screenshot it. So they trust the technology. In this case, 311 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: they were utilizing Instagram with what's called the vanished mode, 312 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: meaning that the picture is supposed to disappear after the 313 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: person views it. Well, a simple hack to get around 314 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: that is to take another device and you take a 315 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: picture of the screen. So they often trust technology thinking 316 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: that it's not going to stay out there, but people 317 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: have easy ways to get around that technology. As we 318 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: are learning that this so called six doorsan plot on 319 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: a team ends in his suicide, take a listen to 320 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 1: our friends at w LUCTV six Jordan tried to avoid 321 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: the exploitation. He sent them money. He did send the 322 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: money out and it wasn't enough. They wanted more. These 323 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: are not empty threats. Money is sent and there is 324 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: agreement that they will erase all the photos and all 325 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: the information, but it doesn't happen. Zibert says a friend 326 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: of Jordan's received one of the compromising photos. The friend 327 00:21:46,520 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: contacted Jordan's parents. Jordan's parents told investigators time stories with 328 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace two. Lieutenant Lawson. Lieutenant Lawson. When will the 329 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: cod be released? That will be with the final medical 330 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: examiners report, and I'm not sure if that will be 331 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: put out in a press release or not. Obviously, we're 332 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: trying to be mindful of the parents and the loved ones, 333 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: and so it will be up to the parents if 334 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: they wished to release them. Kendall Bunts joining us in 335 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: w LUCTV six. Kendall explain to me how this happened. 336 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: Was the family at home when he took his life? 337 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 1: I know it was early in the morning, and of 338 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: course it's such a tion. Happened over a six hour 339 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: time Again, now we had information, Lieutenant Larson, that this 340 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: occurred on a Friday night. Is that not correct? Well, 341 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: the extortions started, well, the conversation with the suspect started 342 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 1: around ten PM on Thursday night, and then it continued 343 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: into the morning until roughly at three forty five am. 344 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: So I would assume the parents were home and probably asleep. Yes, 345 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: another thing I'm trying to figure out. Okay, wait a minute, 346 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: So you said the text and so forth started around 347 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: ten o'clock on Thursday night, and he was found dead 348 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: early in the morning. We received a call about seven 349 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: thirty in the morning on the twenty fifth Friday. It 350 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: sounds like they were trying to wake him up to 351 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: go to school. Yeah. Yeah, because if you're saying seven 352 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: thirty and you get the call at seven thirty, I mean, 353 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,439 Speaker 1: just as a mom when I go in too, of 354 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: course loose he gets up early, but I have to 355 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: go in and wake up John David. And that sounds 356 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: like they had just gone in and tried to wake 357 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 1: him up. That tells me a lot about the cod 358 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: cause of death. It tells me they did not know 359 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: what had happened until they went in to wake him up. 360 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our new friend Kendall Bunch to 361 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 1: the LUCTV. I don't know how they target this guy 362 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: was very popular. He was an athletic. He looked like 363 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: homecoming quick King Jordan received messages on social media from 364 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: an account portraying someone else. They target an individual on 365 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: social media and then they gained their trust over a 366 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: period of time. Then the victim ultimately sends compromising photos 367 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: or information about themselves and that's when they key in 368 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 1: on it. It's called sextortion. The perpetrator blackmails the victim 369 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: into sending money by threatening to send the photos to family, 370 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: friends and social media contacts, and they pray off fear. 371 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: These six tortuess. These predators tickle us. An hour cut 372 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 1: six from our friend Monique Lopez. Sex torsion predators can 373 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 1: prey on young children and teens just for explicit photos. 374 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: In the case of DeMay, officials say it was a 375 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: manipulation to get money, which DeMay did send, but it 376 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: wasn't enough. They fail the first time. They won't actually 377 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: do anything about it. Right. All they want is that 378 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: threat and they stir up that fear hormone inside people 379 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: and they say, you know, I'm going to post it 380 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: to your friends and your family, and they give them 381 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 1: a list of all the websites are going to use, right, 382 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: and they'll send screenshots with maybe things that they've already 383 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: sent to them and say this is what I'm going 384 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: to use and send to people, But a lot of 385 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 1: times they don't end up sending it out to anybody 386 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: at all. However, hours after Jordan's death, a friend of 387 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: Jordan's did actually receive one of the compromising photos back 388 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: to Kendall. BT's joining us eating anchor joining us from 389 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: and you're get at w LUC TV six. I'm in 390 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: this case. Jordan did pay the blackmailer's three hundred dollars 391 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: and then they immediately wanted more. How much more did 392 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 1: they want? Kendall wanted one thousand dollars from Jordan. You know, 393 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: I'm just looking at his pictures right now and it's 394 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: it's just heartbreaking. He says, quote you win, I'm gonna 395 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: kill myself, and their response Kendall, bunch, go ahead, go 396 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: for it, go ahead, and this boy? Did you know? 397 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out how this case is going 398 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: to be cracked. To Lieutenant Larson, it seems as if 399 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: the purpose someone that knew Jordan DeMay the teen boy, 400 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: or was it someone that somehow got access to his 401 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,160 Speaker 1: friend list, or could they have gotten that off Instagram? 402 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: How do you think the got names and contacts, so 403 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: George to send the photos to all the information of 404 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: Instagram and Facebook was open to the public to view, 405 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: so the friends list and the followers lists are available 406 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: to just about anyone with access. So that's how it happened. 407 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 1: Agree or disagree, Dan Ellison, No, I agree, Nancy. And 408 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, it's just become such a growing problem because 409 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: of the ubiquitousness of social media. And you can commit 410 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: these crimes from anywhere in the world. Anybody in the 411 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: world can look up your friends list if you have 412 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: it open um. So scammers are always looking for easy targets. 413 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: Children become easy targets, especially um. You know, unfortunately when 414 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: when when they aren't taught social media literacy and how 415 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: to protect themselves from from predators online. Justin Patchin, it 416 00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: seems to me that the IP address of who hij 417 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: Instagram Jordan could be easily obtained. Is that correct? Probably? Again, 418 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: it depends on the sophistication of the nature of the attack. 419 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 1: Even more than that, every device that connects to the 420 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: Internet has a unique device idea that can be tracked, 421 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: and so for your run of the mill case like this, 422 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: it is pretty easy for authorities to track down. But 423 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: you know, for every creative person online, they are always 424 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: to cover their tracks, and so my suspicion is with 425 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: enough resources, the authorities will be able to track back 426 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: where these threats came from. And whether or not we 427 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: have the ability to hold the offender or offenders accountable 428 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: remains to be seen, but typically things online can be 429 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: tracked pretty easily. How do you crack a case like this, Well, 430 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: you have to first start with with evidence that you've got. 431 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: Obviously we've immediately we're steered towards Instagram, and so we 432 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: have to send out requests for Instagram. There's a couple 433 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: of ways you can do it. One under emergency exception, 434 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: meaning that you believe that someone is in danger, which 435 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: I attempted and was denied, which I'm still kind of 436 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: shocked about, because I whoa Instagram denied you correct, because 437 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: I was under the assumption that this person was also 438 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: possibly doing this to others. I explained the situation that 439 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: we've already have one suicide due to this account, and 440 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: they would not give me emergency exception. So I obtained 441 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: a search warrant for the suspect account and put in 442 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: preservation requests for other information online. So when you deliver 443 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: U supena like that soupena duck is taken for documents A, 444 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: how long does it take to get the answers? And 445 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: be what do you actually get? Do you get the 446 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: IP address? Explain what an IP dress is? And then 447 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: when you get it, what can you do with it? Well, 448 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: first you have subpoenas and you also have search warrants. 449 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: In this case, I did a search warrants, so you 450 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: have the ability to get more information, including content of 451 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: that account. So when you put in your request, you 452 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 1: have to be very specific of what you're asking for. 453 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: You're looking for registration information, IP addresses, you're looking for content, messages, 454 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: a whole variety of different things that may assist in 455 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: the case the IP address, think of it as a 456 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: telephone number. I guess maybe this simple way to think 457 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: of it. And your Internet traffic gets routed through these 458 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: different switch points and it gets and these different switch 459 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: points have different IP addresses. Some of those are dynamic, 460 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: meaning that they're changing all the time. Other ones are static, 461 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: meaning that they stay locked in at the same IP 462 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: address all the time. So the IP address will lead 463 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: you to another location in the Internet and then you 464 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: have to then do a search warrant for that location 465 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: on the Internet, and then it's just like an onion. 466 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: You just keep peeling back to layers and getting more 467 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: IP addresses, and investigations with this type of case are 468 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: very heavily laden with search warrants because you're trying to 469 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: follow the next breadcrumb and the trail. But when you 470 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: finally do get the information from Instagram, you will see 471 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: the IP addresses of who was contacting Jordan. And then, 472 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: like you said, it's like a phone number. Everything, my iPad, 473 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: my laptop, if you're sending from yourself phone, everything has 474 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: an address and that can go straight back to who 475 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,959 Speaker 1: owns the device, whatever device it may be, and then 476 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: you find out where that person lives. And the rest 477 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: is really simple. From that point on. You just have 478 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: to get it from Instagram. Correct. Well, that's the that's 479 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: the starting point, and then it can lead to other places. So, 480 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: for instance, you have your device, then you have your 481 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: which is going to be assigned a number off your router, 482 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: and then your Internet service provider is going to have 483 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: an IP address, and then m anything else that's within 484 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: that chain to get to Instagram. So it's a think 485 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: of a big onion and you're trying to get to 486 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: the center, and you got to just keep peeling back 487 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: these layers of IP addresses doctor Michelle Dupre joining us 488 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: Forrinsty pathologist and medical examiner, Doctor Dupree, we have learned 489 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: from many, many people that attempted suicide that there is 490 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: a point where they want to turn back, but very 491 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: often it's too late. They don't have this strength or 492 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: the ability to turn back. Is that true, Yes, Nancy, 493 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: that cannot be true. And you know, again, it depends 494 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: on the person. If they are so determined, they may 495 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: not have that last minute regret. They may go full 496 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: force and just do it. In this case, we don't 497 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: know that yet. There's there's one thing that I wanted 498 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: to point out, and that is that you know, people, 499 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: whether it's adults or children, when they think about suicide 500 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: and try to commit it, they think that there is 501 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: no other option. They cannot see another choice beyond this, 502 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: and I think that's where support from family and friends 503 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: and others can try to help someone in this situation. Sadly, 504 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: this is not the first time this has happened. Right 505 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: here in our own country, where we have hotlines like 506 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: the suicide Prevention Lifeline one eight hundred two seven three 507 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: talk that's eight hundred two seven three eight two five 508 00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: five where there are counselors online twenty four seven on 509 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: hotlines to help you. But still it's happening, and it's happening. 510 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: Two children, two children. I mean, this looks like the 511 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:15,720 Speaker 1: all American family. They just look so happy with their son, Jordan. 512 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: The mom and dad had a storybook relationship. Then they 513 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: have the family sisters, just one big, seemingly happy family, 514 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: and now it's destroyed. I can't help but wonder if 515 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: the perk that did this to Jordan was somebody he knew. 516 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: He's very active in sports, he loved all sports, he 517 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: played all sports, he was homecoming king, his name was 518 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: bandied about on radio in sports coverage. Was that someone 519 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: there in the community or the high school jealous of him? 520 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: Was this a prank? And then it led to oh, 521 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: let's try to get money or was it just an 522 00:34:55,080 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: internet guel praying on a child? Listen to our cut? 523 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: Nine fifteen year old Riley Bastford got sex started the 524 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: day he joined Facebook. The blackmailers demanded thirty five hundred 525 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: dollars or they'd spread his provocative photos around town. His parents, 526 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: Darren and Mary, spoke to Inside Edition. I was a 527 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: fifteen year old boy at one time, and you know, 528 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: you get curious and if some beautiful ladies, you know, 529 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: texting you. But just like Jordan DeMay, it became too much. 530 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: Riley shot himself our friends at Inside Edition. And it's 531 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,399 Speaker 1: not just Riley and Jordan. Girls too. Take listen to 532 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 1: our cut eleven from w w N y seven. Shylan 533 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: Dixon was a farm girl. She was full of life. 534 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: Loved being with the animals, loved being with her friends, 535 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: loved being on a farm. To Hilton hid Junior, did sports, 536 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 1: hung out with friends, even like to hang out in trees, 537 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: made the honor at Poseason criminal justice. Knew how to 538 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: work hard. That's why it was such a shock. Hylene 539 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: took her own life March third, the victim of an 540 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: internet blackmailer on Facebook. In a note she left, she 541 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: said the blackmailer tricked her into sending embarrassing photos, threatened 542 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: to send them to classmates and friends. I'm just very curious, 543 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: Lieutenant Larson, do you believe the person that's extorted Jordan 544 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: knew him. I don't believe. So why I don't want 545 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: to get into the details of investigation, but it was 546 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 1: very evident when I received the information that he wasn't 547 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: the only victim in this extortion. Ah, So don't say anymore, 548 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 1: and I respect that you don't want to injure the 549 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: integrity of the investigation. Your words could be used against 550 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: the case. Mine, however, won't what that little bit And 551 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: I'm extrapolating to doctor Angela Arnold as that somebody else 552 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: somewhere got the same photo of the girl because they 553 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: that the pros don't bother changing photos, which means somebody 554 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: is targeting kids online, on Insta, on Snapchat, whatever they 555 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,720 Speaker 1: can see. They're targeting someone of a certain age. Why, 556 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,319 Speaker 1: because they are very vulnerable kids that age. I mean, 557 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: think about it, Nancy, you're seventeen years old. In all likelihood, 558 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 1: he could be applying to college kids. Kids are anxious 559 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: and nervous right now, after this, after this whole COVID 560 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 1: situation that we've been through, I am seeing it in 561 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: my practice. I can't keep up with the number of 562 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,279 Speaker 1: kids that need to come see me. Well. Hold on, 563 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: teams are anxious and nervous all the time. Yes, all 564 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: the time and with them. Yet it's just it's it's 565 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: it is an epidemic in itself. This is completely an 566 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 1: epidemic in itself. You know. Another thing to doctor Justin 567 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: Patchen joining us from University Wisconsin and Claire is the 568 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: teen or the twain as in many cases, feels like 569 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,919 Speaker 1: it's so awful. They can't tell their parents, they can't 570 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: tell anybody. That's one hundred percent true. You know, we 571 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: did a study and only about a third of the 572 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: people of the kids, the twelve to seven year old kids, 573 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: only about a third who had experienced sex stortion had 574 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: told either a parent or somebody at school or the police. 575 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,399 Speaker 1: So many don't tell anybody. Someone can find in a friend, 576 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: but then the friends don't know what to do. So 577 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: these kids just feel trapped and and like we was 578 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: talked about earlier, they feel like there's no way out. 579 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,879 Speaker 1: And that's up to us as adults who care about kids, 580 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 1: who work with kids, to to express to them that 581 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: we're here no matter what happened, as you mentioned and Nancy, 582 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,760 Speaker 1: and no matter what happens, we're here to help guys. 583 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: We are talking about a teen boy, Jordan John DeMay, 584 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: that committed suicide after some internet ghoul six started him 585 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 1: Tipline one eight hundred two seven three Talk one eight 586 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:22,320 Speaker 1: hundred two seven three eight two five five Please heed 587 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 1: the warning. Jordan Demay's parents want his story broadcast to 588 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: warn other families to help them. Nancy Grace's crime story 589 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 1: signing off keep by three