Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, I'm Kitty Kirk and this is next question.
Speaker 1: I am super psyched you guys, because my guest today
Speaker 1: is the creator of the show. Everyone is talking about
Speaker 1: The White Lotus.
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed. In its second.
Speaker 1: Season, the series follows a group of wealthy vacationers and
Speaker 1: the people who work at a stunny seaside resort in Sicily.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the White Lotus. I am Valentina, the resorts manager.
Speaker 2: How was it both riot?
Speaker 1: It was?
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm impressed that you're even here.
Speaker 4: Why are you impressed?
Speaker 3: It's a long trip from Los Angeles and you're quite old. No, anyway,
Speaker 3: Isabella here, We'll take you up to the hotel and
Speaker 3: bring you to your beautiful growing.
Speaker 4: And offer you as think of that, thank you.
Speaker 5: You're a CYPRESSA.
Speaker 1: Before the luxe world of The White Lotus, Mike White
Speaker 1: spent much of his time on The Proof creating characters
Speaker 1: who were too loaners, weirdos, and wanderers in movies like
Speaker 1: Chuck and Buck, The Year of the Dog with Molly Shannon,
Speaker 1: The Good Girl with Jennifer Aniston, and School.
Speaker 2: Of Rock with Jack Black.
Speaker 1: Popular movies in their own right, but nothing like The
Speaker 1: Mean producing headline driving conspiracy, fieled chatter.
Speaker 2: Surrounding the White lotus.
Speaker 1: It seems like it's a new, slightly uncomfortable position for
Speaker 1: Mike to be in.
Speaker 4: I see myself as an underdog, and I'm always like that,
Speaker 4: Like I'm always gonna see myself as like somebody who
Speaker 4: has to prove something.
Speaker 5: So like, even in success, I still feel like I
Speaker 5: don't know. Yeah, I'm not an I don't feel like an.
Speaker 4: Impostor, but I feel like I'm I don't know, like
Speaker 4: I you know, I slipped in through the side door
Speaker 4: or something.
Speaker 1: Today we dive into all of it, the making of
Speaker 1: the show, the anatomy of those crazy characters, Mike's childhood,
Speaker 1: and how he really feels about his newfound fame. So
Speaker 1: let me just first start by asking what does it
Speaker 1: feel like to be Mike White these days?
Speaker 5: Well? What a question, I you know.
Speaker 4: I we honestly just finished the final episode. We had
Speaker 4: a very crazy shooting schedule that because of COVID and
Speaker 4: because of weather in Italy and a lot of different reasons,
Speaker 4: we went over our shoot and so I thought HBO
Speaker 4: would give us a little break and let us air
Speaker 4: later than what we were expecting and instead they were like,
Speaker 4: we need it when we need it, and so it
Speaker 4: cut into our post. So I was editing and finishing
Speaker 4: the show up until like ten days ago. So I've
Speaker 4: just been like, I'm living in Hawaii right now for
Speaker 4: tax reasons. There's a good incentive for them to do
Speaker 4: the post here, which is great. But I saw I've
Speaker 4: been kind of in a bubble. I've just been finishing
Speaker 4: the show, uh, living on an island, and so yeah,
Speaker 4: it's I don't know, I don't I don't know what
Speaker 4: it's like to but it, but it doesn't I'm not
Speaker 4: getting It's not like I'm it's not like I'm walking
Speaker 4: around la and like getting high five.
Speaker 5: For people or anything like that. So it's it's it,
Speaker 5: but I'm but I'm excited that it's a sentence that.
Speaker 4: The people are watching the show and liking it, and
Speaker 4: I'm definitely getting that. But it's but it's just pretty
Speaker 4: I'm still kind of living on an island and living
Speaker 4: in a bubble.
Speaker 2: Well. Having said that, though, Mike, let's get real.
Speaker 1: I mean you are sort of the envy of everyone
Speaker 1: in Hollywood, and this is something that you've talked about
Speaker 1: kind of willingly. In an article you did in in Vulture,
Speaker 1: you talked about Hollywood, Who's up, Who's down, kind of
Speaker 1: how people are all envious of one another, and that
Speaker 1: you're uber competitive. So have you been having said all that, Mike,
Speaker 1: have you been able to take a moment and kind
Speaker 1: of say I'm the bomb?
Speaker 5: Oh my god, No, No, that's so not me. I
Speaker 5: but yes i am.
Speaker 4: I'm you know, it's honestly, Katie, I feel like i'm
Speaker 4: you know, I'm fifty two years old, and I've been
Speaker 4: doing this since I was twenty two years old, and
Speaker 4: so and I've had, you know, a lot of things
Speaker 4: made and a lot of things that I thought were successful,
Speaker 4: but not at this yeah, with this kind of reaction.
Speaker 4: And so I just sort of feel like to use
Speaker 4: the like, since I'm in Hawaii, like an analogy that
Speaker 4: fits here, which is like, I feel like I'm a
Speaker 4: surfer who's been out in the ocean for a long time.
Speaker 5: And like I caught a wave. I don't know why
Speaker 5: this wave, but like you.
Speaker 4: Know, obviously I'm old enough and have had a long
Speaker 4: enough career to see it as yeah, a blessing but
Speaker 4: also something that you can't you know, I would never
Speaker 4: try to chase this reaction because I just it's just
Speaker 4: it's just you just never know what's gonna be yea,
Speaker 4: what people are going to respond to. So I'm excited.
Speaker 4: I'll take your word for it that that's it's it's yeah,
Speaker 4: I don't know, I'm obviously I'm happy. It's like, I mean,
Speaker 4: I was at the age where I was just like
Speaker 4: can I keep doing it? You know, like it was
Speaker 4: like maybe the old Gray Mary what she used to be,
Speaker 4: and I've got to like so like it's nice to
Speaker 4: have a little like yeah, it's it's it's definitely fun.
Speaker 5: I'm very excited, but I don't know whatever.
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the genesis of White lotus. I
Speaker 1: was at a party and I heard from a couple
Speaker 1: of Hollywood types that HBO had access to a hotel
Speaker 1: that was empty and MAUI during COVID and came to
Speaker 1: you and said, hey, Mike White, can you write a
Speaker 1: show that takes place in a hotel?
Speaker 2: Is that how it started?
Speaker 6: It?
Speaker 5: Kind of?
Speaker 4: It definitely was like they they need they had a
Speaker 4: lot of projects that had fallen apart because of COVID,
Speaker 4: and so they just they knew I was kind of
Speaker 4: fast and that like I was good with dialogue and
Speaker 4: that like maybe a show that was very that I
Speaker 4: could write a show in a bubble that was like
Speaker 4: that would maybe be immune from some of the COVID
Speaker 4: uh issues that they had come up upon. And so
Speaker 4: so they asked me to do it, like can you
Speaker 4: come up with a bubble show? But they didn't have
Speaker 4: a I was like, it was my idea to do.
Speaker 5: It in a hotel.
Speaker 4: And I was like, and I'm you know, I have
Speaker 4: a place in Kwai And I'm like, and I knew
Speaker 4: that there were all these hotels that were just yeah
Speaker 4: defunct and they were just had shut down because of COVID,
Speaker 4: And I was like, we could grab one of those
Speaker 4: hotels of bad in Hawaii. But they didn't even really
Speaker 4: want us to go to Hawaii because that was already
Speaker 4: to treacherous potential issues with COVID. They wanted us like
Speaker 4: they probably would have been happy and found like a
Speaker 4: hotel in like Lancaster or like you know, across the
Speaker 4: street from Casey Boyce's house or something, right, So like
Speaker 4: so yeah, I just uh so, yeah, I had to
Speaker 4: push for Hawaii.
Speaker 5: But yeah, it was kind of a mix mix of that, and.
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about how you were inspired
Speaker 1: to write really both seasons, but let's start with the first.
Speaker 1: I mean, when you sit down to write this mic,
Speaker 1: what were you trying to accomplish? I know that's kind
Speaker 1: of a big broad question, but I'm just curious. You've
Speaker 1: got a blank screen, a blank computer screen, and you
Speaker 1: decide I want to show class differences. I wanted to
Speaker 1: show really interesting characters. I think one of the things,
Speaker 1: one of many things I love about the show is
Speaker 1: that feels very current. You know, sometimes things get made
Speaker 1: and they come out a couple of years later or
Speaker 1: even a year later, and they don't feel ocurrant or
Speaker 1: of the moment. And I think White Load has felt
Speaker 1: so tuned in to current sensibilities. So just talk to
Speaker 1: me a little bit about your thought process when you
Speaker 1: put finger to keyboard.
Speaker 5: You're talking about like the first season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, we'll talk about this second.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the first season it was I I I you know,
Speaker 4: I've spent a lot of time in Hawaii, so you know,
Speaker 4: some of and a lot in Hawaii, there's definitely like
Speaker 4: two classes. There's the you know, the tourists and the
Speaker 4: money to people who come and like you know, have
Speaker 4: their vacations here. And then there's the service class of
Speaker 4: people who you know, can be at any you know,
Speaker 4: some of them are do very well financially, but they're
Speaker 4: all servicing these tourists. And so you you know, if
Speaker 4: you hear long enough, you get like this, you know,
Speaker 4: the you I obviously know the tourist side of it
Speaker 4: because I've been there and I you know, it's like
Speaker 4: and a lot of my friends who visit, you know,
Speaker 4: so I get that part of it. But then also
Speaker 4: you know, the service side of it. And I just
Speaker 4: felt like, you know, there's something about doing you know,
Speaker 4: because obviously hotel or like Fantasy Island, you think love Boat,
Speaker 4: like there's like a there's like a history of these
Speaker 4: kinds of shows in this kind of you know, like
Speaker 4: trying to genre exactly, but to do something that is
Speaker 4: a little bit more well observed and that kind of
Speaker 4: gets that, you know. I just thought it was like
Speaker 4: an interesting about how money, who has the money impacts
Speaker 4: relationships both obviously from the server and the you know, customer,
Speaker 4: but also you know, the husband and the wife and
Speaker 4: the father and the child and and and so it
Speaker 4: just felt like maybe as a theme that seemed rich,
Speaker 4: and so that was kind of the initial impulse because
Speaker 4: I was like, we're going to be in a hotel.
Speaker 4: You know, nobody can leave. It's kind of has to
Speaker 4: be a crucible everyone, you know. And so yeah, it
Speaker 4: kind of built out from there. And then it was
Speaker 4: just like years of maybe years of too much being
Speaker 4: online and like Twitter speak and like it was just
Speaker 4: like I was like I just.
Speaker 5: Started freestyling as far as just like trying to get at.
Speaker 4: Some of the I don't know, the kind of contemporary
Speaker 4: language and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: It seems to me you're almost like an anthropologist kind
Speaker 1: of discovering and exposing human behavior. And I when I
Speaker 1: watch I wonder how much of this did Mike learn
Speaker 1: from being on reality shows how people act? Because obviously
Speaker 1: you were in Survivor. On Survivor, I understand you're a
Speaker 1: good friend of Jeff Probe's. You love reality television. You
Speaker 1: were on The Amazing Race with your dad. So did
Speaker 1: some of those experience help inform your writing for White Lotus?
Speaker 1: Am I getting too weird on these questions?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 5: Not at all.
Speaker 4: I mean I actually what I loved when I when
Speaker 4: I you know, because I was obviously a writer before
Speaker 4: the big reality boom, which I think started like in
Speaker 4: two thousand ish and then uh, but like you know,
Speaker 4: you show like Survivor came along and you were like, wow,
Speaker 4: it was showing people, you know, one minute they would
Speaker 4: be very irritating or very petty, and then the next
Speaker 4: minute they would be very vulnerable and your heart goes
Speaker 4: out to them, and then they could be courageous, and
Speaker 4: I don't know, it was just like you would see
Speaker 4: these these I mean because they were people. It was
Speaker 4: like fully dimensional humans. And even though maybe the format
Speaker 4: could be formulaic, there was something I just as a writer,
Speaker 4: I was like.
Speaker 5: This is this is you know this this.
Speaker 4: Makes you want to raise your game as far as
Speaker 4: like when you are creating characters that people are watching,
Speaker 4: because it felt like they were always surprising and you
Speaker 4: were you know, you just you There wasn't some internal
Speaker 4: integrity obviously, but there was also all of these colors,
Speaker 4: and so I've always wanted to try to write characters
Speaker 4: that could match, you know, some of the great you know,
Speaker 4: personalities that you see in reality TV. So yeah, I
Speaker 4: do think that's a that's a part of it. And
Speaker 4: I just think when I was very young, starting very early,
Speaker 4: I was I was always you know, I had Sam
Speaker 4: Shepherd's mother was my second grade teacher, and she loved
Speaker 4: her son, and I loved.
Speaker 5: Her, and so it was the first time that I.
Speaker 4: Realized, oh, people were playwrights. So very early on I
Speaker 4: was writing little plays and so, like, I've always listened,
Speaker 4: and I've always been interested in how people talk, because
Speaker 4: I've always thought about things in terms of dialogue, and
Speaker 4: then also how what they say about themselves doesn't always
Speaker 4: necessarily match what they think and doesn't always match what
Speaker 4: they are going to do, and so that's always been
Speaker 4: interesting to me, and so I've always been kind of
Speaker 4: an observer of that.
Speaker 1: I guess I think your childhood, though, in addition to
Speaker 1: being taught by Sam Shepherd's mother in second grade, which
Speaker 1: is a cool little fact at Trivia Fact, you grew
Speaker 1: up an evangelical household in Pasadena, and yet you were
Speaker 1: always skeptical about religion. What was your childhood like, Mike.
Speaker 4: Well, my parents were very loving and I loved I
Speaker 4: had a very nurturing, positive, nuclear family. My dad was
Speaker 4: a minister, and we were part of a bigger, kind
Speaker 4: of more evangelical religious community.
Speaker 5: And it was there that.
Speaker 4: Community where it was deaf felt I always felt a
Speaker 4: little alien. I never really drunk the kool aid, as
Speaker 4: they say, and I I always yeah, it was there
Speaker 4: where you I think that I, you know, some of
Speaker 4: the you know, part of drama is is yeah, getting
Speaker 4: past the ven you know, the facade, and trying to
Speaker 4: see what people really do and what people really are like,
Speaker 4: but beyond what they say they do. And I think
Speaker 4: there's a lot of hypocrisy and a lot of those
Speaker 4: smaller evangelical communities about you know, certainly around sex and
Speaker 4: around how people you know, think about you know, what
Speaker 4: the motivations for behavior are and stuff, and so I
Speaker 4: I have so it always I always felt like I
Speaker 4: was like I always wanted to know. I was like,
Speaker 4: what's the what's the real you know, like I've always
Speaker 4: been like, you know, interested in like what really how
Speaker 4: what people do and how that that's sometimes not really
Speaker 4: in line with how they present themselves.
Speaker 1: I think that shows up in a lot of your work.
Speaker 1: Mic I was rewatching Brad's status, and I think that
Speaker 1: was very effective in terms of this inner turmoil Brad
Speaker 1: aka Ben Stiller is experiencing. Comparing him his station in
Speaker 1: life to all of his college friends who were doing
Speaker 1: much better. And I think that external internal conflict is
Speaker 1: something it seems to me that you go back to.
Speaker 1: And I read that when you were eleven year dad
Speaker 1: came out to your family. He was a minister, as
Speaker 1: you mentioned, but also a gross writer for people like
Speaker 1: Jerry Folwell and Tammy Baker, and you once said finding
Speaker 1: out about your dad's sexuality is quote the key to
Speaker 1: everything I write.
Speaker 4: How So, yeah, well, just in the sense of what
Speaker 4: I was just talking about, which is, you know, it's
Speaker 4: a big rug to be pulled from under you where
Speaker 4: you know, you think your family is this thing, and
Speaker 4: your dad is this thing, and he's a minister, and
Speaker 4: then you realize there's this other, whole other side, which
Speaker 4: isn't necessarily a dark side, it's just a truth. And
Speaker 4: the truth is in contradiction to what he's supposed to
Speaker 4: be in the world. And and so I think, you know,
Speaker 4: exploring that and and and and I think that that, yeah,
Speaker 4: that just just to me, it's just you know, obviously
Speaker 4: it hit home in a literal way, just that you know,
Speaker 4: we are more complicated than we present ourselves, and that
Speaker 4: we put a certain face to our community and that
Speaker 4: that maybe in drama and showing some of that. Obviously
Speaker 4: there's a titillation part of it, but then there's like
Speaker 4: a maybe some kind of solace to know that, like
Speaker 4: everybody is grappling with this, like that the person that
Speaker 4: we want to be and the person that the world
Speaker 4: wants us to be, we're not always that and that's
Speaker 4: okay and that's human.
Speaker 5: And that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: You I went to Wesleyan, I know, and you said
Speaker 1: you finally found your people there. So how did Wesleyan
Speaker 1: affect you, not only as a person but as a writer.
Speaker 4: Well, I was in a kind of more homogeneous community
Speaker 4: growing up in high school, you know, and grade school,
Speaker 4: and so going to Wesleyan, you know, it was a
Speaker 4: very open minded, liberal community in general, and also just
Speaker 4: these kids were so sophisticated. It was like I was
Speaker 4: just like I just felt like I was like behind
Speaker 4: the curve, you know. I was kind of a self
Speaker 4: taught I mean, I was just I mean I went
Speaker 4: to a good school, but it was like as far
Speaker 4: as culture and stuff, I was just I was, you know,
Speaker 4: I like had my own like subscription to The New
Speaker 4: Yorker for I was just trying to find my way
Speaker 4: through the culture, and so, like I would, I went
Speaker 4: to Wesleyan all these you know, a lot of I
Speaker 4: mean it was a lot of New York Jewish kids
Speaker 4: who are like very like fully baked and fully like
Speaker 4: you know, you know, like new fancy people. And I
Speaker 4: was just like, I kind of was just I felt
Speaker 4: like a rube. But I but I was so enamored
Speaker 4: by the yeah, the whole vibe there and the still
Speaker 4: to this day, a lot of those kids I met
Speaker 4: there are are my my friend group.
Speaker 1: And when you when you graduated from wesley and were
Speaker 1: you really interested in playwriting or just writing in general.
Speaker 5: Well, I wanted to be a playwright. I wanted to
Speaker 5: be Sam Shepherd.
Speaker 4: I went from California to you know, to Wesseleyan, and
Speaker 4: I was like, I didn't have socks. I realized how
Speaker 4: cold it was back East. I was like, this is
Speaker 4: too cold for me. Like I so I was like,
Speaker 4: I was like, my plan was to go to New
Speaker 4: York and be was starring playwright.
Speaker 5: But I was like, I don't know if I could
Speaker 5: handle this weather.
Speaker 4: I was like, so, I like kind of I fell
Speaker 4: into the wrong crowd and came back to la I
Speaker 4: was started writing for for movies and TV.
Speaker 2: After the break, Let's go to Sicily.
Speaker 1: When you look back at your quote unquote body of work, Mike, wait,
Speaker 1: do you notice any kind of thread that connects a
Speaker 1: lot of these stories when you think about it.
Speaker 5: I don't know, me I have a thread. I don't
Speaker 5: know there.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's an idiosyncratic body of work.
Speaker 5: And I and I'm.
Speaker 4: Proud, like I one thing that I always was like,
Speaker 4: I'm not going to take myself so seriously that I
Speaker 4: miss out on anything like and that's how That's why
Speaker 4: I did Survivor. It's why I did amazing race, It's
Speaker 4: why I've taken jobs that I don't know. It's like,
Speaker 4: you know, like I always thought that I I mean,
Speaker 4: if now now I do sound like a whatever. I
Speaker 4: just you know, it's like I always thought I was talented.
Speaker 4: I always felt like I had some the offer. I
Speaker 4: always felt like I was, you know, like I like
Speaker 4: you said I was. You know, I've said I'm competitive,
Speaker 4: Like I would see peers who like you know, caught
Speaker 4: the wave and got a lot of like attention and success,
Speaker 4: and I was like I could do that.
Speaker 5: I'm beat. I'm I'm as good or better than those people.
Speaker 5: And in the you know, of.
Speaker 4: Course, that's that's the that's the gumption that you need
Speaker 4: to get through Hollywood by like and so so.
Speaker 5: But at the same time, I was just like, I'm not.
Speaker 4: Gonna be I met people early on who had careers
Speaker 4: that I admired, and a lot of them seemed miserable
Speaker 4: or they seem like they were really in a you know,
Speaker 4: protective of their you know, like they they I don't know,
Speaker 4: they that in order to be serious taken seriously, they
Speaker 4: had to kind of have a serious vibe.
Speaker 5: And it's like, we're in the we're in the we're
Speaker 5: in the you know.
Speaker 4: I I think our work is meaningful, but like we
Speaker 4: are in the in the sort of we're in the
Speaker 4: kids section in a sense, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: We're not we're not you know.
Speaker 2: We're not curing cancer.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're not curing cancer. We're not in the policy
Speaker 4: we're not policy wants.
Speaker 5: We're not.
Speaker 4: It's like we are you know, we're in the we're
Speaker 4: in the entertainment section, do you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: So it's like and so I just was like, I
Speaker 4: I just don't I want to I want to be successful,
Speaker 4: and I want people to think I'm talented, but I
Speaker 4: also I want to I want to live a life
Speaker 4: that I look back on and the life itself was
Speaker 4: cool and the and the things I did were cool,
Speaker 4: and it's not just my work. So so like I
Speaker 4: look at those all those different things, and it's like
Speaker 4: it's it's an eclectic it's like it's kind of a
Speaker 4: hot mess, like a bunch of credits.
Speaker 5: But I I each one of them.
Speaker 4: I got different things out of and and and yeah,
Speaker 4: I had served different purposes for me.
Speaker 1: But right now you are in a very different position, Mike,
Speaker 1: because I'm sure everyone in Hollywood is saying that Mike White,
Speaker 1: he can write his own ticket. Now he can kind
Speaker 1: of do whatever he wants, which I think makes you
Speaker 1: a little uncomfortable.
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I feel like this is like it's like I'm waking
Speaker 4: up in Hawaii and it's like Katie Kirk is here
Speaker 4: to tell you everything has changed.
Speaker 2: Everything is feist, Mike.
Speaker 4: No, Well, I I appreciate you saying that, and I
Speaker 4: and I you know, I actually feel like I if
Speaker 4: that's true. I feel like I feel like I'm like
Speaker 4: somebody who's been ready to be at bat for a
Speaker 4: long time. And I've done it, you know, like you know,
Speaker 4: and I've I've done things I'm proud of. But like
Speaker 4: I've it's always been swimming upstream to get the financing,
Speaker 4: to get the actor, to get the thing to the
Speaker 4: you know, like it's it's and that's part of the fun,
Speaker 4: I guess, but it's also part it's there's wear and tear.
Speaker 4: So it's like, if it's an easier road to do
Speaker 4: the things I want to do, I'm ready to do
Speaker 4: more and I have more to say, and I you know,
Speaker 4: like and it's and and this was hard. Uh, it
Speaker 4: took a lot out of me, especially this last season.
Speaker 4: But this is what I always wanted to do, and
Speaker 4: so I'm grateful that I have the opportunity.
Speaker 5: To do it.
Speaker 2: Are you having fun, Mike?
Speaker 5: I am having fun. I'm having fun talking to you.
Speaker 4: I'm here in Hawaii, I'm you know, I've gotten through
Speaker 4: the season and everyone's you know, chatting about so that's fun.
Speaker 5: But I also I need to reboot a little bit.
Speaker 4: I don't have a lot of gas in the tank,
Speaker 4: so I need to figure out how to I don't
Speaker 4: know whatever, unplug and refresh or something.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about this current season of White Lotus, because
Speaker 1: I'm worried, Mike, I'm worried about the characters White. I'm
Speaker 1: really worried. I'm I'm really worried. I'm worried about Portia.
Speaker 1: I'm really worried about Tanya. I'm worried about is it alb.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm worried about everyone. What are you doing
Speaker 1: to us, Mike?
Speaker 4: Well, the fun thing about Yeah, what I like about
Speaker 4: this format is that, like I like I kind of
Speaker 4: like a slow simmer, you know, so it's it's fun.
Speaker 5: We you know.
Speaker 4: I think the pleasure of this one, then, certainly this
Speaker 4: season and last season too, I think, is like, you know,
Speaker 4: you hope you create very credible characters, and you create
Speaker 4: a situation that like you're like it passes the bull
Speaker 4: shit detector to some degree, and and that and then
Speaker 4: and then just start to like cook up the gap,
Speaker 4: you know, like turn up the heat just so it's like,
Speaker 4: you know, it's like almost like when you're on the
Speaker 4: yeah roller coaster and you're like chit chit chick and
Speaker 4: you're like going up, and you're like this is gonna.
Speaker 5: Go really far down like we are really going check.
Speaker 4: So yeah, and I think the finale hopefully will satisfy
Speaker 4: h the Catharsis, and I mean, yeah, there's gonna be
Speaker 4: a lot of there's gonna be a lot of gnashing
Speaker 4: of teeth and it's yeah, but yeah, you should be worried.
Speaker 1: I keep thinking about that story of the woman that
Speaker 1: fell that they threw off the mountain.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 1: I also keep worrying about the the wife of the
Speaker 1: cheesy finance guy saying, Oh, you're going to die here.
Speaker 1: They're going to have to drag you out of this place.
Speaker 1: I keep thinking, oh, what does that mean?
Speaker 2: Have my right to pick up on some of these things?
Speaker 5: I mean, well, some of.
Speaker 4: Them are intentional to build for the finale and some
Speaker 4: are a little bit misdirects so that people think, Yeah,
Speaker 4: you want people to like feel like they're you know,
Speaker 4: Miss Marple and they've got the clues, but you need
Speaker 4: extra clues.
Speaker 5: You know, it's not so obvious what happens.
Speaker 4: But I think people, I think even if you guess,
Speaker 4: you're going to be surprised with just how it all
Speaker 4: falls apart.
Speaker 1: I love the way you use art interchangeably. First of all,
Speaker 1: obviously you're obsessed with kind of those water shots, which
Speaker 1: I really like too, but I love I love the painting,
Speaker 1: the artifacts, the architecture, the shots of the porcelain head,
Speaker 1: of that same porcelain head guy that.
Speaker 2: You keep going back to again and again.
Speaker 1: Tell me your thought process about using that as a
Speaker 1: way to propel the story forward or to foreshadow things,
Speaker 1: or to echo what might be going on at the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: can you tell, I've been watching very intimly.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, well, the test is tomorrows.
Speaker 4: When I got there, I was like, because they're everywhere
Speaker 4: in Sicily, those heads, and the story behind it has
Speaker 4: to and the reason for the whole season was because
Speaker 4: of these heads.
Speaker 5: I was like, because I would go around like, these
Speaker 5: heads are everywhere, and it was.
Speaker 4: About adultery and violence and sexual jealousy, and I was
Speaker 4: like that just I had a different idea for the
Speaker 4: second season.
Speaker 5: I was like, no, we got to.
Speaker 4: Do an operatic like Italian in sexual jealousy storyline.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's like, that's that's what people want to
Speaker 5: see anyway.
Speaker 4: But also, this is the part of my job that
Speaker 4: people should be jealous of, which is I go to Sicily,
Speaker 4: I'm telling them.
Speaker 5: I'm doing White Lotus.
Speaker 4: All of the rich like Sicilians who have these pulazzos
Speaker 4: are willing to let me come in and like snoop
Speaker 4: around their house. I got to see all these and
Speaker 4: so like two of them ended up in the show.
Speaker 4: But like you walk around and you have no idea
Speaker 4: that behind this, like you know edifice is like this
Speaker 4: incredible palazzo.
Speaker 5: They're all A lot of them are hidden.
Speaker 4: It's like and then to be able to like get
Speaker 4: access to those and see them, and I was like,
Speaker 4: we gotta, like, you know, so when we would get
Speaker 4: into these places, I was like, we gotta shoot. We
Speaker 4: gotta just like fire hose this down, Like we gotta
Speaker 4: get every piece of art on the walls, like we
Speaker 4: gotta do pushions on all of the you know. So
Speaker 4: for someone who like you know, likes interior, you know whatever,
Speaker 4: like these kind of like classic maxim list eclectic like
Speaker 4: you know, like rich you know palazzas, Like I was
Speaker 4: just like I was in heaven.
Speaker 5: So I just felt like I had to make the
Speaker 5: most of it.
Speaker 1: And I mean it must have been an extraordinary place
Speaker 1: to film. And is that a real hotel? Was that
Speaker 1: hotel vacant? As well, or tell me about the location.
Speaker 1: I want to go to that hotel.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you should.
Speaker 4: It's it's the Santa Manico Palace, which is like a
Speaker 4: very historical It was originally a convent and then it
Speaker 4: turned into a hotel, but it's been a hotel for
Speaker 4: quite a long time. And lab and Truro was shot there.
Speaker 4: It's like, it's it's a it's amazing because obviously, you know,
Speaker 4: I got we we looked at a lot of different
Speaker 4: hotels and it's just like, first the convent part of
Speaker 4: it just gives it this added kind of you know, vibe,
Speaker 4: and then.
Speaker 5: You know, you see these terraced.
Speaker 4: Hills with all these different you know villas you know
Speaker 4: that are so classic in European and and then you
Speaker 4: have the Greek theater on one side, and then the
Speaker 4: Ionian Sea in front, and then the Mount Etna, which
Speaker 4: is literally you know, belching smoke half the time, and
Speaker 4: you're just like, this is if we're going to go
Speaker 4: to Europe, this is what you go for.
Speaker 5: You go for these views.
Speaker 4: So it's definitely I highly recommend Tarmina and Sicily itself.
Speaker 4: It's like you really can't spend enough time there. It's
Speaker 4: like as each you know, it was just after a
Speaker 4: few days it was like I was like, okay, we've
Speaker 4: done this sight seeing, but like it's just like then
Speaker 4: there's just this like vibe over time that just really
Speaker 4: seduces you.
Speaker 2: Did you find Lucia and Mia in Sicily?
Speaker 5: No, we found them in Rome.
Speaker 4: Simona, who plays Lucia is actually from Naples and Mia
Speaker 4: is from Rome. But we had a great set of
Speaker 4: casting directors from Italy who brought us a lot of options,
Speaker 4: and those two and Sabrina Impatriatory who plays the manager,
Speaker 4: they're all they were all incredible and so fun to
Speaker 4: work with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were fun to watch, I'll tell you that.
Speaker 1: And I know that you have said that the show
Speaker 1: satirizes wealthy, white privilege, and you've said that your intention
Speaker 1: was to quote unquote poke the bear, but through a
Speaker 1: humanist perspective. So help us out with that, Mike, what
Speaker 1: did you mean.
Speaker 5: Well, poke the bear?
Speaker 4: I don't you know, obviously I'm satirizing privilege, but you know,
Speaker 4: especially with the first season, I also was poking the
Speaker 4: bear as far as some of the I don't know,
Speaker 4: like I wanted to give voice to both, you know,
Speaker 4: the critiques of the patriarchy and all of these things
Speaker 4: that you know, we are discussing, you know, had have
Speaker 4: been discussing with fervor the last couple of years.
Speaker 5: But also give.
Speaker 4: Voice to the people that are you know, it's like,
Speaker 4: you know, I have hearing you know, like like some
Speaker 4: of the conversations that I'm hearing that people don't want
Speaker 4: to say in public but like behind closed doors, and
Speaker 4: try to you know, like not you know, make it
Speaker 4: so you're kind of walking the line where okay, well
Speaker 4: that sort of is a fair point and then like,
Speaker 4: oh yeah, but you're saying that because this is you know,
Speaker 4: you're you're defending, you know, you're on your heels.
Speaker 5: So like trying to make it so it's not so
Speaker 5: such a simple, pre.
Speaker 4: Digested conversation and and have those conversations be.
Speaker 5: Lively and like you.
Speaker 6: Know, multi layered, multi layered enough that like people feel like,
Speaker 6: oh they're they're being seen and then and it's still
Speaker 6: challenged and so and that was that was what I
Speaker 6: was trying to do.
Speaker 5: And you know, like and and the fact.
Speaker 4: That like people on both sides of some of these arguments,
Speaker 4: like champion the show or also like hated the show,
Speaker 4: it made me feel like I did my job.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're you're really showing some of those tricky
Speaker 1: conversations that people do have behind closed doors. And I
Speaker 1: think that that's what contributes Mike to the realness of
Speaker 1: the show and the dialogue that you know, you feel
Speaker 1: like this is what people really are talking about, and
Speaker 1: that you're not following some kind of prescriptive dialogue to
Speaker 1: be on the right side of any issue.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I don't even I don't even It's like, ultimately,
Speaker 4: it's like, I don't think it's the dramatist job to
Speaker 4: it's I don't think it's it's a message conveying machine.
Speaker 4: If I was trying to make a message, then I
Speaker 4: would be communicating in a different medium or a different
Speaker 4: kind of Uh. It's really about giving voice to the
Speaker 4: different people who exist in our world and try, you know,
Speaker 4: do my best to make it feel like it's a
Speaker 4: you know, a dimensional conversation.
Speaker 1: After the break, why Mike spends so much time in
Speaker 1: the gray areas of human behavior. I know that a
Speaker 1: lot of people had taken note that your characters, so
Speaker 1: many of them are just unlikable or complicated, or there
Speaker 1: are certain things you like, and certain things you really
Speaker 1: don't like, so you feel conflicted. And I feel very
Speaker 1: conflicted about Tanya. I really disliked her at the end
Speaker 1: of last season, and now I don't dislike her. I
Speaker 1: feel sorry for her because she's quite pathetic, but she's
Speaker 1: also sort of lovable too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean yeah, I mean well, Jennifer Coolidge
Speaker 4: is lovable period, and so she brings the lovability for sure.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I do think it's like I, especially the
Speaker 4: first season, you know, I wanted there to be two tracks,
Speaker 4: which is, you know, her as the underdog who's looking
Speaker 4: for love and dealing with the fact that her mom
Speaker 4: died and you know the pain of that, and so
Speaker 4: on one side you're rooting for her, and then there's
Speaker 4: this other story where she's kind of dangling this carrot
Speaker 4: over this other woman's you know eye sure and future
Speaker 4: and making her feel like there's hope for something, and
Speaker 4: then she's kind of a flake.
Speaker 5: And that just seems very true to life for me.
Speaker 4: To some of these women that I've met and or
Speaker 4: you know man too, But just like where you know,
Speaker 4: they see themselves as a victim in some sense and.
Speaker 5: Then savior or savior or savior.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and and they don't see how that they can
Speaker 4: also be victimizing and that they that they yeah, that
Speaker 4: they they have agency and that they.
Speaker 5: Are yeah, that they are somehow blowing it.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you about some of the other characters
Speaker 1: in kind of a rapid fire way. We talked about
Speaker 1: Mia and Lucia, and we talked about Valentina. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about Porsia. And I love this discussion online about Porsia's clothes.
Speaker 2: Have you seen this, Mike, I, Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: That she dresses like a gen Z threat store, Like
Speaker 1: nothing really goes together, like it doesn't look good or not.
Speaker 2: I mean, what do you think of all that? It's
Speaker 2: so funny.
Speaker 4: Well, a lot of the credit goes to I mean,
Speaker 4: that was her character on the page, but Haley Lou Richardson,
Speaker 4: who's the actress, and then Alex Baverd, who is our
Speaker 4: costume designer, you know, are the true geniuses behind her looks.
Speaker 4: And you know, I'm I'm a little bit like, I'm
Speaker 4: women's fashion is not my gough to.
Speaker 5: But I but I but I I.
Speaker 4: Did weigh in, I did weigh in, I approved, I supervised,
Speaker 4: but I but yeah, I just think that you know,
Speaker 4: to me, Portia is somebody who I see this a lot,
Speaker 4: and this was something that I feel like online I
Speaker 4: think is the thing that I I find interesting is
Speaker 4: that there's a lot of people who are like rich,
Speaker 4: you know, like bad bad rich people. Rich people are terrible,
Speaker 4: you know, like it's this like this kind of like
Speaker 4: you know that that I that I'm allowed to make
Speaker 4: the show as long as I show how bad rich
Speaker 4: people are.
Speaker 5: That the moral of the story is that rich people
Speaker 5: are better something.
Speaker 4: And it's like and and and obviously you know, there
Speaker 4: is there's truth to that, like a lot of rich
Speaker 4: people are fugging up the world, and so like I
Speaker 4: you know, but but I also you know, you you
Speaker 4: and so like I guess Porsche was like a vehicle
Speaker 4: to explore how she sees in Tanya all of these
Speaker 4: bad character traits and that she, you know, if and
Speaker 4: if she had what Tanya had, she would have her
Speaker 4: life together and she would be she you know, like
Speaker 4: she would be she wouldn't do it better than Tanya.
Speaker 4: But you see how in her own way she's she
Speaker 4: is kind of lost in in a similar way, she's
Speaker 4: actually kind of a mini me to Tanya, and.
Speaker 1: In fact, Tanya tells Porsia, you remind me a lot
Speaker 1: of myself when I was younger. But I also think
Speaker 1: Porscha is very gen z and that she's sort of
Speaker 1: a little bit lost and just doesn't know what she
Speaker 1: wants to do. She doesn't really have any goals. She's
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. Did that I mean, do
Speaker 1: you know young people like that that kind of helped
Speaker 1: shape that character.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do think.
Speaker 4: I mean again, I don't want to get crucified, but
Speaker 4: I do think I've noticed in this younger generation a
Speaker 4: desire to try on identities and feel like there's something like, like,
Speaker 4: I don't know, courageous about about identity as a way
Speaker 4: to express yourself through whatever, like through the way you
Speaker 4: talk about yourself or the clothes you wear or whatever.
Speaker 4: But like, ultimately it is very naval gazing, and it
Speaker 4: adds to I think.
Speaker 5: Adds to malaise. I think it actually it makes.
Speaker 4: Your It's like the more you start, like, yeah, like
Speaker 4: talking about yourself and thinking about yourself along these lines,
Speaker 4: it actually just exacerbates the problem that you're trying to solve.
Speaker 4: So like I think a little bit of Porsche comes
Speaker 4: through and that I mean, I I I, you know,
Speaker 4: like I don't want to think that I'm totally you know,
Speaker 4: but like she's just like I want this and I
Speaker 4: don't know if I just want to you've fulfilled and
Speaker 4: it's like, you know, it's just there's just something about
Speaker 4: that that is just yeah, it's maybe it's yeah, maybe
Speaker 4: it's agism. Maybe I'm just like I've become the person
Speaker 4: who makes you. But like I just when I was younger,
Speaker 4: it was just like it's it to me. I still
Speaker 4: feel like it's like you mean to like move outside
Speaker 4: of yourself, to like find courage and move outside of
Speaker 4: your own you know, it's like your own navel gazing
Speaker 4: to really then fully develop.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: It's like if you're just always looking inside and doing
Speaker 4: selfies and and calling yourself a different thing, and it's
Speaker 4: all about the clothes you're wearing, you know, it's like
Speaker 4: that that just feels like that's a that's going to
Speaker 4: be a dead end road.
Speaker 2: So that's Porsia.
Speaker 1: And what about the foursome of Harper, Ethan, Cameron, and Daphne.
Speaker 1: I have to say, I think Aubrey Plaza is my
Speaker 1: favorite character in the whole show. I like her perpetual
Speaker 1: state of ONWII that is now kind of morphed into
Speaker 1: something else all together. And I love what you're doing
Speaker 1: about jealousy with ethan and and Harper. So tell me
Speaker 1: a little bit about Harper's character.
Speaker 4: Well, I Aubrey is a friend of mine and I
Speaker 4: wanted to get her in the show. So a little
Speaker 4: bit of it started with just like, you know, Aubrey
Speaker 4: is a very complicated, interesting person, but she's kind of
Speaker 4: known for this sort of dead like the way she
Speaker 4: comes in at the beginning is kind of like maybe
Speaker 4: the way people see her or what thing they think
Speaker 4: that she's gonna be if she joins the white Lotus world,
Speaker 4: but then start to show these other kind of more
Speaker 4: vulnerable sides and that her toughness is a little bit
Speaker 4: of a front and and but I liked, you know,
Speaker 4: like what I was trying to do with that whole
Speaker 4: storyline is, you know, it has to do with it's
Speaker 4: kind of what brad status was as far as status,
Speaker 4: but like with sec like what that we're always comparing
Speaker 4: ourselves in our relationship to other people's relationships and what
Speaker 4: they have and what they it seems like they you know,
Speaker 4: like what they do better what they do worse?
Speaker 5: And how how?
Speaker 4: And I was kind of playing a little bit at
Speaker 4: the beginning where it's like you think, okay, here's start
Speaker 4: like NPR listening like you know, liberal, like you know,
Speaker 4: like these are the good guys that are going to
Speaker 4: relate to and then this other couple they're so vacuous
Speaker 4: and you know, it's like but then kind of playing
Speaker 4: a little bit with which is maybe that other couple
Speaker 4: is like dysfunctional and crazy.
Speaker 5: It's like, well they seem to be having more fun.
Speaker 4: Like you know, like that that that maybe you know,
Speaker 4: like maybe it's not as as simple as all of that,
Speaker 4: and and I don't want to give away the ending,
Speaker 4: but yeah, how it all, How it all lands is
Speaker 4: kind of a little bit of insight into what I'm
Speaker 4: trying to not say, but like, yeah.
Speaker 5: Try to reveal something a little bit more unexpected. I
Speaker 5: guess it.
Speaker 1: Also seems to be a bit of a commentary on
Speaker 1: tech and finance bros.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I just think.
Speaker 2: New money, new money status.
Speaker 1: Competition, that weird sort of dance you play when you're
Speaker 1: financially dependent on someone, which it seems like Cameron is
Speaker 1: sort of needs Ethan because He's made a boatload of
Speaker 1: money in tech, right, there's something weird about that dynamic.
Speaker 5: Well, I definitely.
Speaker 4: I as a guy, I've been privy to lots of
Speaker 4: conversations over the years. I live like next to Brentwood,
Speaker 4: so there's just like you know, the Brentwood Country Mart
Speaker 4: where like lawyers and finance people and whatever like people
Speaker 4: in my industry or whatever, and how they're buddies. But
Speaker 4: like even in the in every conversation, you just sense
Speaker 4: this peacockying and like they're trying to figure out like
Speaker 4: where they stand as far as who's making them more money,
Speaker 4: you know, who makes like where? Yeah, it's uh, And
Speaker 4: so that's always very funny to me because I I.
Speaker 5: Don't I whatever, it's yeah.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it was kind of playing with like yeah,
Speaker 4: they're friends, but like are they friends?
Speaker 5: Like what are they? Like?
Speaker 4: Like the competition is so heavy that it's just like
Speaker 4: can they ever really be friends? You know?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I find that whole sort of foursome fascinating And I
Speaker 1: love f Marie Abraham, which I mean, by the way,
Speaker 1: what a what a feather in your cap to get
Speaker 1: him to be in white Lotus. And then you've got
Speaker 1: from the sopranos. You've got Michael Imperio. Imperio can help me.
Speaker 5: With that, Michael Imperially Yeah, and.
Speaker 1: Who plays his son. And then you have Adam DeMarco
Speaker 1: who plays Albi. Uh so you have these three generations
Speaker 1: of Italian Americans.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, yes, Murray and Michael are I'm
Speaker 4: huge I was the huge fans of prior and then
Speaker 4: working with them even more so. Murray is like, you know,
Speaker 4: he's I think he's eighty two years old and he's
Speaker 4: so still like enamored with the process and acting and
Speaker 4: storytelling and it's inspiring.
Speaker 5: And Michael is one of the most he's in.
Speaker 4: The pantheon of like the easiest, most like generous actors
Speaker 4: I've ever worked with. So like, those two are incredible.
Speaker 4: And then of course Adam de mark is one of
Speaker 4: the sweetest kids. So like they were a great group.
Speaker 4: But like contextually, as far as the ideas of that,
Speaker 4: I just feel like, you know, I wanted you know,
Speaker 4: it's kind of getting into male sexuality and desire and
Speaker 4: male role, you know, the role like you know, men's
Speaker 4: roles when it comes to romance and how they deal
Speaker 4: with the women and and just voicing the different generational
Speaker 4: attitudes in a kind of classic way, and how they're
Speaker 4: all kind of even though they're all sort of negotiating
Speaker 4: with the new ways of talking about relationships and sex
Speaker 4: and interactions with women, that they're all kind of trapped
Speaker 4: in a certain sense.
Speaker 1: To Derek, who works on this podcast, who's one of
Speaker 1: the producers, talked about how this season portrays a wide
Speaker 1: variety of sexual relationships and entanglements, and you were just
Speaker 1: talking about sex, just as the opening title sequence portrays
Speaker 1: increasing debauchery in the art, as the rollicking theme song plays,
Speaker 1: the show itself feels like it's revealing more and more
Speaker 1: about the ways that humans experience their sexuality or suppress
Speaker 1: it or given to it or both. Even these are
Speaker 1: Derek's observations, and I'm curious what you think of that,
Speaker 1: and sort of how you were trying to portray different
Speaker 1: just different kinds of relationships. And for example, you portray
Speaker 1: sex workers, you know, Lucia and Mia, very differently than
Speaker 1: kind of what we normally see in TV books or movies.
Speaker 4: Well, I, you know, with the title sequence, I basically said,
Speaker 4: you know, it should start with these kind of pretty
Speaker 4: you know, like like you're going into a palazzo and
Speaker 4: the beautiful walls, and then you start seeing little things
Speaker 4: in the corners and you realize there's this kind of
Speaker 4: mischievous or even kind of creeper purvy like sexual things
Speaker 4: that are happening in the margins.
Speaker 5: And then by the end of the credit sequence, it's
Speaker 5: almost like a.
Speaker 4: Bosch painting of like just you know, and where you know,
Speaker 4: the carnality of it and the desire of it is
Speaker 4: like front and center. And I felt like that with
Speaker 4: the season two, which is like you start off and
Speaker 4: it's like, you know, a little bit of these repressed
Speaker 4: people trying to like you know, figure out, like you know,
Speaker 4: how to have a good vacation, and that like being
Speaker 4: in insight to of sicily and in this kind of
Speaker 4: little crucible that like the desire and you start seeing
Speaker 4: desire and everyone and it's yeah, it becomes a very
Speaker 4: horny show.
Speaker 5: And I just felt like it was like and especially
Speaker 5: like you know, like and as far as like uh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean and I I yeah, you know, I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't think I'll always write stories like this. It's
Speaker 4: not certainly my wheelhouse, like directing scenes of like intimacy
Speaker 4: between people and like getting people nude and stuff.
Speaker 5: It's just like I was like, you know, like I
Speaker 5: was like, this is not something I'm doing. Yeah, I
Speaker 5: was like, whatever you guys want to do?
Speaker 4: Like what faithfully, you know, when you hire actors that
Speaker 4: are exhibitionists, they're often less inhibited than I am. So
Speaker 4: like they're like, you want me to take my top off? Yeah, sure,
Speaker 4: if that's good, Sure there's cook yeah. So like so yeah,
Speaker 4: so that was but I but I but I do
Speaker 4: feel like it was like it's fun to show I
Speaker 4: actually think it's fun to show women horny horny women
Speaker 4: because I feel like that sometimes is something that like,
Speaker 4: you know, a lot of times in in drama it's
Speaker 4: like they're either victimized or virginal or like I don't
Speaker 4: know it, or it's like this kind of like you know,
Speaker 4: like they'll talk it's like sex in the city. It's
Speaker 4: like it is it's very like talky, but like you know,
Speaker 4: where you're actually feeling the desire and feeling the you know.
Speaker 4: It's like and you know, to me, that just feels
Speaker 4: true to life in a way.
Speaker 5: I guess I don't know what else to put it.
Speaker 5: But anyway.
Speaker 4: So so yeah, so I just thought it was like,
Speaker 4: let's do sex, let's just go all in, and and
Speaker 4: that was kind of the I was like, if we're
Speaker 4: going to go all in, it's like by the end,
Speaker 4: you just want to feel like, yeah, the animal in
Speaker 4: the in each of these.
Speaker 5: Human characters.
Speaker 1: So this is the big question. Is there going to
Speaker 1: be a White Law is three? Is there going to
Speaker 1: be a third season?
Speaker 5: Yes, they picked us up for a third season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yes, where Mike, where?
Speaker 5: Well, I want to go to Asia, That's what I think.
Speaker 4: Look, I mean it feels like, you know, you start
Speaker 4: in like America they do, Europe feels like the next
Speaker 4: one would be.
Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't know why that feels that.
Speaker 4: It's just like I'm trying to think, like, like, yeah,
Speaker 4: where does Katie Current go on vacation for you?
Speaker 5: Tell me? Actually, I you know what. I ran into
Speaker 5: you once on vacation.
Speaker 4: I was in Yeah, I was in Berlin, staying at
Speaker 4: a classic old hotel in the middle Berlin, I forget
Speaker 4: the name of it. And you were staying there at
Speaker 4: the same time with Io. Ran into you. I ran
Speaker 4: I think we were like there the same days or whatever.
Speaker 4: Because I ran into you. You're very friendly. You seem
Speaker 4: like you're having a good time. He's still like smiling, good, great,
Speaker 4: and yeah, you guys. I don't know if you were
Speaker 4: there for work or vacation or whatever, but you were
Speaker 4: you were there for vacation.
Speaker 1: And you know, my husband John is a huge Survivor nut.
Speaker 1: I mean, he has seen every season. He finds it fascinating.
Speaker 1: So he loves you from Survivor.
Speaker 5: Oh that's cool.
Speaker 4: Well, I think it was prior to me doing Survivor
Speaker 4: it was you were it might I think it was
Speaker 4: what didn't Yeah.
Speaker 2: Why I got married in twenty fourteen, so it was prob.
Speaker 5: I think it was like after that, it was like
Speaker 5: twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was twenty twenty sixteen. Maybe twenty fifteen.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I did Survivor twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, Well, now.
Speaker 4: You seem very you know, you seem like you had
Speaker 4: happy energy.
Speaker 5: I liked I liked you from just the vibe.
Speaker 2: Oh that's so nice. Well you is it.
Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil the finale, but do you
Speaker 1: think we'll see Tanya in the third season?
Speaker 4: I love well, I love I love writing Tanya, and
Speaker 4: I love I love working with Jennifer, so definitely could be.
Speaker 1: You can't tell me. If you tell me, you'd have
Speaker 1: to kill me, right, Mike, Why.
Speaker 5: What do you mean you want to dies? Well? You
Speaker 5: never know. Could be I'm not telling you, you know,
Speaker 5: I don't want to ruin it.
Speaker 1: A huge thank you to my guest Mike White. I
Speaker 1: imagine you're all tuning in this Sunday, December eleventh for
Speaker 1: the finale to find out who makes it out of
Speaker 1: the White Lotus alive. If not, whenever you're listening to this,
Speaker 1: Happy Benjin.
Speaker 2: Next Question with.
Speaker 1: Katie Kirk is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kirk Media.
Speaker 1: The executive producers are Me, Katie Kirk, and Courtney Ltz.
Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Lauren Hanson. Associate producers Derek Clements
Speaker 1: and Adriana Fazio. The show is edited and mixed by
Speaker 1: Derek Clements. For more information about today's episode, or to
Speaker 1: sign up for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go
Speaker 1: to Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me at
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