1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, I'm Kitty Kirk and this is next question. 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: I am super psyched you guys, because my guest today 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: is the creator of the show. Everyone is talking about 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: The White Lotus. 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 2: I'm obsessed. In its second. 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: Season, the series follows a group of wealthy vacationers and 7 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: the people who work at a stunny seaside resort in Sicily. 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 3: Welcome to the White Lotus. I am Valentina, the resorts manager. 9 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 2: How was it both riot? 10 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: It was? 11 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm impressed that you're even here. 12 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 4: Why are you impressed? 13 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 3: It's a long trip from Los Angeles and you're quite old. No, anyway, 14 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 3: Isabella here, We'll take you up to the hotel and 15 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 3: bring you to your beautiful growing. 16 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 4: And offer you as think of that, thank you. 17 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 5: You're a CYPRESSA. 18 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: Before the luxe world of The White Lotus, Mike White 19 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: spent much of his time on The Proof creating characters 20 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: who were too loaners, weirdos, and wanderers in movies like 21 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: Chuck and Buck, The Year of the Dog with Molly Shannon, 22 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: The Good Girl with Jennifer Aniston, and School. 23 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: Of Rock with Jack Black. 24 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: Popular movies in their own right, but nothing like The 25 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: Mean producing headline driving conspiracy, fieled chatter. 26 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 2: Surrounding the White lotus. 27 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: It seems like it's a new, slightly uncomfortable position for 28 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: Mike to be in. 29 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 4: I see myself as an underdog, and I'm always like that, 30 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 4: Like I'm always gonna see myself as like somebody who 31 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 4: has to prove something. 32 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 5: So like, even in success, I still feel like I 33 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 5: don't know. Yeah, I'm not an I don't feel like an. 34 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 4: Impostor, but I feel like I'm I don't know, like 35 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 4: I you know, I slipped in through the side door 36 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 4: or something. 37 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: Today we dive into all of it, the making of 38 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: the show, the anatomy of those crazy characters, Mike's childhood, 39 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: and how he really feels about his newfound fame. So 40 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: let me just first start by asking what does it 41 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: feel like to be Mike White these days? 42 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 5: Well? What a question, I you know. 43 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 4: I we honestly just finished the final episode. We had 44 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 4: a very crazy shooting schedule that because of COVID and 45 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 4: because of weather in Italy and a lot of different reasons, 46 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 4: we went over our shoot and so I thought HBO 47 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 4: would give us a little break and let us air 48 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 4: later than what we were expecting and instead they were like, 49 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 4: we need it when we need it, and so it 50 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 4: cut into our post. So I was editing and finishing 51 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 4: the show up until like ten days ago. So I've 52 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 4: just been like, I'm living in Hawaii right now for 53 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 4: tax reasons. There's a good incentive for them to do 54 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 4: the post here, which is great. But I saw I've 55 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 4: been kind of in a bubble. I've just been finishing 56 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 4: the show, uh, living on an island, and so yeah, 57 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 4: it's I don't know, I don't I don't know what 58 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 4: it's like to but it, but it doesn't I'm not 59 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 4: getting It's not like I'm it's not like I'm walking 60 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 4: around la and like getting high five. 61 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 5: For people or anything like that. So it's it's it, 62 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 5: but I'm but I'm excited that it's a sentence that. 63 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 4: The people are watching the show and liking it, and 64 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 4: I'm definitely getting that. But it's but it's just pretty 65 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 4: I'm still kind of living on an island and living 66 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 4: in a bubble. 67 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 2: Well. Having said that, though, Mike, let's get real. 68 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: I mean you are sort of the envy of everyone 69 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: in Hollywood, and this is something that you've talked about 70 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: kind of willingly. In an article you did in in Vulture, 71 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: you talked about Hollywood, Who's up, Who's down, kind of 72 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: how people are all envious of one another, and that 73 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: you're uber competitive. So have you been having said all that, Mike, 74 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: have you been able to take a moment and kind 75 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: of say I'm the bomb? 76 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 5: Oh my god, No, No, that's so not me. I 77 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 5: but yes i am. 78 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 4: I'm you know, it's honestly, Katie, I feel like i'm 79 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 4: you know, I'm fifty two years old, and I've been 80 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 4: doing this since I was twenty two years old, and 81 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 4: so and I've had, you know, a lot of things 82 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 4: made and a lot of things that I thought were successful, 83 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 4: but not at this yeah, with this kind of reaction. 84 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 4: And so I just sort of feel like to use 85 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 4: the like, since I'm in Hawaii, like an analogy that 86 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 4: fits here, which is like, I feel like I'm a 87 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 4: surfer who's been out in the ocean for a long time. 88 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 5: And like I caught a wave. I don't know why 89 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 5: this wave, but like you. 90 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 4: Know, obviously I'm old enough and have had a long 91 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 4: enough career to see it as yeah, a blessing but 92 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 4: also something that you can't you know, I would never 93 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 4: try to chase this reaction because I just it's just 94 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 4: it's just you just never know what's gonna be yea, 95 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 4: what people are going to respond to. So I'm excited. 96 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 4: I'll take your word for it that that's it's it's yeah, 97 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 4: I don't know, I'm obviously I'm happy. It's like, I mean, 98 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 4: I was at the age where I was just like 99 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 4: can I keep doing it? You know, like it was 100 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 4: like maybe the old Gray Mary what she used to be, 101 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 4: and I've got to like so like it's nice to 102 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 4: have a little like yeah, it's it's it's definitely fun. 103 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 5: I'm very excited, but I don't know whatever. 104 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the genesis of White lotus. I 105 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: was at a party and I heard from a couple 106 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: of Hollywood types that HBO had access to a hotel 107 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: that was empty and MAUI during COVID and came to 108 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: you and said, hey, Mike White, can you write a 109 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: show that takes place in a hotel? 110 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: Is that how it started? 111 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 6: It? 112 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 5: Kind of? 113 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 4: It definitely was like they they need they had a 114 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 4: lot of projects that had fallen apart because of COVID, 115 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 4: and so they just they knew I was kind of 116 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 4: fast and that like I was good with dialogue and 117 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 4: that like maybe a show that was very that I 118 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 4: could write a show in a bubble that was like 119 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 4: that would maybe be immune from some of the COVID 120 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 4: uh issues that they had come up upon. And so 121 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 4: so they asked me to do it, like can you 122 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 4: come up with a bubble show? But they didn't have 123 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 4: a I was like, it was my idea to do. 124 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 5: It in a hotel. 125 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 4: And I was like, and I'm you know, I have 126 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 4: a place in Kwai And I'm like, and I knew 127 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 4: that there were all these hotels that were just yeah 128 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 4: defunct and they were just had shut down because of COVID, 129 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 4: And I was like, we could grab one of those 130 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 4: hotels of bad in Hawaii. But they didn't even really 131 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 4: want us to go to Hawaii because that was already 132 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 4: to treacherous potential issues with COVID. They wanted us like 133 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 4: they probably would have been happy and found like a 134 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 4: hotel in like Lancaster or like you know, across the 135 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 4: street from Casey Boyce's house or something, right, So like 136 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 4: so yeah, I just uh so, yeah, I had to 137 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 4: push for Hawaii. 138 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 5: But yeah, it was kind of a mix mix of that, and. 139 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about how you were inspired 140 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: to write really both seasons, but let's start with the first. 141 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: I mean, when you sit down to write this mic, 142 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: what were you trying to accomplish? I know that's kind 143 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: of a big broad question, but I'm just curious. You've 144 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: got a blank screen, a blank computer screen, and you 145 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: decide I want to show class differences. I wanted to 146 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: show really interesting characters. I think one of the things, 147 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: one of many things I love about the show is 148 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: that feels very current. You know, sometimes things get made 149 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: and they come out a couple of years later or 150 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: even a year later, and they don't feel ocurrant or 151 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: of the moment. And I think White Load has felt 152 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: so tuned in to current sensibilities. So just talk to 153 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: me a little bit about your thought process when you 154 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: put finger to keyboard. 155 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 5: You're talking about like the first season. 156 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, we'll talk about this second. 157 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, the first season it was I I I you know, 158 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 4: I've spent a lot of time in Hawaii, so you know, 159 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 4: some of and a lot in Hawaii, there's definitely like 160 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 4: two classes. There's the you know, the tourists and the 161 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 4: money to people who come and like you know, have 162 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 4: their vacations here. And then there's the service class of 163 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 4: people who you know, can be at any you know, 164 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 4: some of them are do very well financially, but they're 165 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 4: all servicing these tourists. And so you you know, if 166 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 4: you hear long enough, you get like this, you know, 167 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 4: the you I obviously know the tourist side of it 168 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 4: because I've been there and I you know, it's like 169 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 4: and a lot of my friends who visit, you know, 170 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 4: so I get that part of it. But then also 171 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 4: you know, the service side of it. And I just 172 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 4: felt like, you know, there's something about doing you know, 173 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 4: because obviously hotel or like Fantasy Island, you think love Boat, 174 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 4: like there's like a there's like a history of these 175 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 4: kinds of shows in this kind of you know, like 176 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 4: trying to genre exactly, but to do something that is 177 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 4: a little bit more well observed and that kind of 178 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 4: gets that, you know. I just thought it was like 179 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 4: an interesting about how money, who has the money impacts 180 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 4: relationships both obviously from the server and the you know, customer, 181 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 4: but also you know, the husband and the wife and 182 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 4: the father and the child and and and so it 183 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 4: just felt like maybe as a theme that seemed rich, 184 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 4: and so that was kind of the initial impulse because 185 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 4: I was like, we're going to be in a hotel. 186 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 4: You know, nobody can leave. It's kind of has to 187 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 4: be a crucible everyone, you know. And so yeah, it 188 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 4: kind of built out from there. And then it was 189 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 4: just like years of maybe years of too much being 190 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 4: online and like Twitter speak and like it was just 191 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 4: like I was like I just. 192 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 5: Started freestyling as far as just like trying to get at. 193 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 4: Some of the I don't know, the kind of contemporary 194 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 4: language and stuff like that. 195 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: It seems to me you're almost like an anthropologist kind 196 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: of discovering and exposing human behavior. And I when I 197 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: watch I wonder how much of this did Mike learn 198 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: from being on reality shows how people act? Because obviously 199 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: you were in Survivor. On Survivor, I understand you're a 200 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: good friend of Jeff Probe's. You love reality television. You 201 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: were on The Amazing Race with your dad. So did 202 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: some of those experience help inform your writing for White Lotus? 203 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: Am I getting too weird on these questions? 204 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 4: No? 205 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 5: Not at all. 206 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 4: I mean I actually what I loved when I when 207 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 4: I you know, because I was obviously a writer before 208 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 4: the big reality boom, which I think started like in 209 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 4: two thousand ish and then uh, but like you know, 210 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 4: you show like Survivor came along and you were like, wow, 211 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 4: it was showing people, you know, one minute they would 212 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 4: be very irritating or very petty, and then the next 213 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 4: minute they would be very vulnerable and your heart goes 214 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 4: out to them, and then they could be courageous, and 215 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 4: I don't know, it was just like you would see 216 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 4: these these I mean because they were people. It was 217 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 4: like fully dimensional humans. And even though maybe the format 218 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 4: could be formulaic, there was something I just as a writer, 219 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 4: I was like. 220 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 5: This is this is you know this this. 221 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 4: Makes you want to raise your game as far as 222 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 4: like when you are creating characters that people are watching, 223 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 4: because it felt like they were always surprising and you 224 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 4: were you know, you just you There wasn't some internal 225 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 4: integrity obviously, but there was also all of these colors, 226 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 4: and so I've always wanted to try to write characters 227 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 4: that could match, you know, some of the great you know, 228 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 4: personalities that you see in reality TV. So yeah, I 229 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 4: do think that's a that's a part of it. And 230 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 4: I just think when I was very young, starting very early, 231 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 4: I was I was always you know, I had Sam 232 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 4: Shepherd's mother was my second grade teacher, and she loved 233 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 4: her son, and I loved. 234 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 5: Her, and so it was the first time that I. 235 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 4: Realized, oh, people were playwrights. So very early on I 236 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 4: was writing little plays and so, like, I've always listened, 237 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 4: and I've always been interested in how people talk, because 238 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 4: I've always thought about things in terms of dialogue, and 239 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 4: then also how what they say about themselves doesn't always 240 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 4: necessarily match what they think and doesn't always match what 241 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 4: they are going to do, and so that's always been 242 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 4: interesting to me, and so I've always been kind of 243 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 4: an observer of that. 244 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: I guess I think your childhood, though, in addition to 245 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: being taught by Sam Shepherd's mother in second grade, which 246 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: is a cool little fact at Trivia Fact, you grew 247 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: up an evangelical household in Pasadena, and yet you were 248 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: always skeptical about religion. What was your childhood like, Mike. 249 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 4: Well, my parents were very loving and I loved I 250 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 4: had a very nurturing, positive, nuclear family. My dad was 251 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 4: a minister, and we were part of a bigger, kind 252 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,239 Speaker 4: of more evangelical religious community. 253 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 5: And it was there that. 254 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 4: Community where it was deaf felt I always felt a 255 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 4: little alien. I never really drunk the kool aid, as 256 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 4: they say, and I I always yeah, it was there 257 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 4: where you I think that I, you know, some of 258 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 4: the you know, part of drama is is yeah, getting 259 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 4: past the ven you know, the facade, and trying to 260 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 4: see what people really do and what people really are like, 261 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 4: but beyond what they say they do. And I think 262 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 4: there's a lot of hypocrisy and a lot of those 263 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 4: smaller evangelical communities about you know, certainly around sex and 264 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 4: around how people you know, think about you know, what 265 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 4: the motivations for behavior are and stuff, and so I 266 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 4: I have so it always I always felt like I 267 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 4: was like I always wanted to know. I was like, 268 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 4: what's the what's the real you know, like I've always 269 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 4: been like, you know, interested in like what really how 270 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 4: what people do and how that that's sometimes not really 271 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 4: in line with how they present themselves. 272 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 1: I think that shows up in a lot of your work. 273 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: Mic I was rewatching Brad's status, and I think that 274 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 1: was very effective in terms of this inner turmoil Brad 275 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: aka Ben Stiller is experiencing. Comparing him his station in 276 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: life to all of his college friends who were doing 277 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: much better. And I think that external internal conflict is 278 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: something it seems to me that you go back to. 279 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: And I read that when you were eleven year dad 280 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: came out to your family. He was a minister, as 281 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: you mentioned, but also a gross writer for people like 282 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: Jerry Folwell and Tammy Baker, and you once said finding 283 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: out about your dad's sexuality is quote the key to 284 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: everything I write. 285 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 4: How So, yeah, well, just in the sense of what 286 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 4: I was just talking about, which is, you know, it's 287 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 4: a big rug to be pulled from under you where 288 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 4: you know, you think your family is this thing, and 289 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 4: your dad is this thing, and he's a minister, and 290 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 4: then you realize there's this other, whole other side, which 291 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 4: isn't necessarily a dark side, it's just a truth. And 292 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 4: the truth is in contradiction to what he's supposed to 293 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 4: be in the world. And and so I think, you know, 294 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 4: exploring that and and and and I think that that, yeah, 295 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 4: that just just to me, it's just you know, obviously 296 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 4: it hit home in a literal way, just that you know, 297 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 4: we are more complicated than we present ourselves, and that 298 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 4: we put a certain face to our community and that 299 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 4: that maybe in drama and showing some of that. Obviously 300 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 4: there's a titillation part of it, but then there's like 301 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 4: a maybe some kind of solace to know that, like 302 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 4: everybody is grappling with this, like that the person that 303 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 4: we want to be and the person that the world 304 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 4: wants us to be, we're not always that and that's 305 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 4: okay and that's human. 306 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 5: And that kind of thing. 307 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: You I went to Wesleyan, I know, and you said 308 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: you finally found your people there. So how did Wesleyan 309 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: affect you, not only as a person but as a writer. 310 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 4: Well, I was in a kind of more homogeneous community 311 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 4: growing up in high school, you know, and grade school, 312 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 4: and so going to Wesleyan, you know, it was a 313 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 4: very open minded, liberal community in general, and also just 314 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 4: these kids were so sophisticated. It was like I was 315 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 4: just like I just felt like I was like behind 316 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 4: the curve, you know. I was kind of a self 317 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 4: taught I mean, I was just I mean I went 318 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 4: to a good school, but it was like as far 319 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 4: as culture and stuff, I was just I was, you know, 320 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 4: I like had my own like subscription to The New 321 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 4: Yorker for I was just trying to find my way 322 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 4: through the culture, and so, like I would, I went 323 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 4: to Wesleyan all these you know, a lot of I 324 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 4: mean it was a lot of New York Jewish kids 325 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 4: who are like very like fully baked and fully like 326 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 4: you know, you know, like new fancy people. And I 327 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 4: was just like, I kind of was just I felt 328 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 4: like a rube. But I but I was so enamored 329 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 4: by the yeah, the whole vibe there and the still 330 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 4: to this day, a lot of those kids I met 331 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 4: there are are my my friend group. 332 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: And when you when you graduated from wesley and were 333 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: you really interested in playwriting or just writing in general. 334 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 5: Well, I wanted to be a playwright. I wanted to 335 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 5: be Sam Shepherd. 336 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 4: I went from California to you know, to Wesseleyan, and 337 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 4: I was like, I didn't have socks. I realized how 338 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 4: cold it was back East. I was like, this is 339 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 4: too cold for me. Like I so I was like, 340 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 4: I was like, my plan was to go to New 341 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 4: York and be was starring playwright. 342 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 5: But I was like, I don't know if I could 343 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 5: handle this weather. 344 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 4: I was like, so, I like kind of I fell 345 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 4: into the wrong crowd and came back to la I 346 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 4: was started writing for for movies and TV. 347 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 2: After the break, Let's go to Sicily. 348 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: When you look back at your quote unquote body of work, Mike, wait, 349 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: do you notice any kind of thread that connects a 350 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: lot of these stories when you think about it. 351 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 5: I don't know, me I have a thread. I don't 352 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 5: know there. 353 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 4: I mean, it's an idiosyncratic body of work. 354 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 5: And I and I'm. 355 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 4: Proud, like I one thing that I always was like, 356 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 4: I'm not going to take myself so seriously that I 357 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 4: miss out on anything like and that's how That's why 358 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 4: I did Survivor. It's why I did amazing race, It's 359 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 4: why I've taken jobs that I don't know. It's like, 360 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 4: you know, like I always thought that I I mean, 361 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 4: if now now I do sound like a whatever. I 362 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 4: just you know, it's like I always thought I was talented. 363 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 4: I always felt like I had some the offer. I 364 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 4: always felt like I was, you know, like I like 365 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 4: you said I was. You know, I've said I'm competitive, 366 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 4: Like I would see peers who like you know, caught 367 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 4: the wave and got a lot of like attention and success, 368 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 4: and I was like I could do that. 369 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 5: I'm beat. I'm I'm as good or better than those people. 370 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 5: And in the you know, of. 371 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 4: Course, that's that's the that's the gumption that you need 372 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 4: to get through Hollywood by like and so so. 373 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 5: But at the same time, I was just like, I'm not. 374 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 4: Gonna be I met people early on who had careers 375 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 4: that I admired, and a lot of them seemed miserable 376 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 4: or they seem like they were really in a you know, 377 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 4: protective of their you know, like they they I don't know, 378 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 4: they that in order to be serious taken seriously, they 379 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 4: had to kind of have a serious vibe. 380 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 5: And it's like, we're in the we're in the we're 381 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 5: in the you know. 382 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 4: I I think our work is meaningful, but like we 383 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 4: are in the in the sort of we're in the 384 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 4: kids section in a sense, you know what I mean. 385 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 5: We're not we're not you know. 386 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 2: We're not curing cancer. 387 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, we're not curing cancer. We're not in the policy 388 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 4: we're not policy wants. 389 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 5: We're not. 390 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 4: It's like we are you know, we're in the we're 391 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 4: in the entertainment section, do you know what I mean. 392 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 4: So it's like and so I just was like, I 393 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 4: I just don't I want to I want to be successful, 394 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 4: and I want people to think I'm talented, but I 395 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 4: also I want to I want to live a life 396 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 4: that I look back on and the life itself was 397 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 4: cool and the and the things I did were cool, 398 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 4: and it's not just my work. So so like I 399 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 4: look at those all those different things, and it's like 400 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 4: it's it's an eclectic it's like it's kind of a 401 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 4: hot mess, like a bunch of credits. 402 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 5: But I I each one of them. 403 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 4: I got different things out of and and and yeah, 404 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 4: I had served different purposes for me. 405 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: But right now you are in a very different position, Mike, 406 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: because I'm sure everyone in Hollywood is saying that Mike White, 407 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: he can write his own ticket. Now he can kind 408 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: of do whatever he wants, which I think makes you 409 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: a little uncomfortable. 410 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 5: Well, I don't know. 411 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 4: I feel like this is like it's like I'm waking 412 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 4: up in Hawaii and it's like Katie Kirk is here 413 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 4: to tell you everything has changed. 414 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 2: Everything is feist, Mike. 415 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 4: No, Well, I I appreciate you saying that, and I 416 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 4: and I you know, I actually feel like I if 417 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 4: that's true. I feel like I feel like I'm like 418 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 4: somebody who's been ready to be at bat for a 419 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 4: long time. And I've done it, you know, like you know, 420 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 4: and I've I've done things I'm proud of. But like 421 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 4: I've it's always been swimming upstream to get the financing, 422 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 4: to get the actor, to get the thing to the 423 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 4: you know, like it's it's and that's part of the fun, 424 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 4: I guess, but it's also part it's there's wear and tear. 425 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 4: So it's like, if it's an easier road to do 426 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 4: the things I want to do, I'm ready to do 427 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 4: more and I have more to say, and I you know, 428 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 4: like and it's and and this was hard. Uh, it 429 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 4: took a lot out of me, especially this last season. 430 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 4: But this is what I always wanted to do, and 431 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 4: so I'm grateful that I have the opportunity. 432 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 5: To do it. 433 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 2: Are you having fun, Mike? 434 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 5: I am having fun. I'm having fun talking to you. 435 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 4: I'm here in Hawaii, I'm you know, I've gotten through 436 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 4: the season and everyone's you know, chatting about so that's fun. 437 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 5: But I also I need to reboot a little bit. 438 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 4: I don't have a lot of gas in the tank, 439 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 4: so I need to figure out how to I don't 440 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 4: know whatever, unplug and refresh or something. 441 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: Let's talk about this current season of White Lotus, because 442 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: I'm worried, Mike, I'm worried about the characters White. I'm 443 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: really worried. I'm I'm really worried. I'm worried about Portia. 444 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: I'm really worried about Tanya. I'm worried about is it alb. 445 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm worried about everyone. What are you doing 446 00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: to us, Mike? 447 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 4: Well, the fun thing about Yeah, what I like about 448 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 4: this format is that, like I like I kind of 449 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 4: like a slow simmer, you know, so it's it's fun. 450 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 5: We you know. 451 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 4: I think the pleasure of this one, then, certainly this 452 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 4: season and last season too, I think, is like, you know, 453 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 4: you hope you create very credible characters, and you create 454 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 4: a situation that like you're like it passes the bull 455 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,399 Speaker 4: shit detector to some degree, and and that and then 456 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 4: and then just start to like cook up the gap, 457 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 4: you know, like turn up the heat just so it's like, 458 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 4: you know, it's like almost like when you're on the 459 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 4: yeah roller coaster and you're like chit chit chick and 460 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 4: you're like going up, and you're like this is gonna. 461 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 5: Go really far down like we are really going check. 462 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 4: So yeah, and I think the finale hopefully will satisfy 463 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 4: h the Catharsis, and I mean, yeah, there's gonna be 464 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 4: a lot of there's gonna be a lot of gnashing 465 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 4: of teeth and it's yeah, but yeah, you should be worried. 466 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,239 Speaker 1: I keep thinking about that story of the woman that 467 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: fell that they threw off the mountain. 468 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 5: Oh. 469 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: I also keep worrying about the the wife of the 470 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: cheesy finance guy saying, Oh, you're going to die here. 471 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: They're going to have to drag you out of this place. 472 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: I keep thinking, oh, what does that mean? 473 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 2: Have my right to pick up on some of these things? 474 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 5: I mean, well, some of. 475 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 4: Them are intentional to build for the finale and some 476 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 4: are a little bit misdirects so that people think, Yeah, 477 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,919 Speaker 4: you want people to like feel like they're you know, 478 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 4: Miss Marple and they've got the clues, but you need 479 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 4: extra clues. 480 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 5: You know, it's not so obvious what happens. 481 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 4: But I think people, I think even if you guess, 482 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 4: you're going to be surprised with just how it all 483 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 4: falls apart. 484 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: I love the way you use art interchangeably. First of all, 485 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: obviously you're obsessed with kind of those water shots, which 486 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: I really like too, but I love I love the painting, 487 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: the artifacts, the architecture, the shots of the porcelain head, 488 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: of that same porcelain head guy that. 489 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 2: You keep going back to again and again. 490 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: Tell me your thought process about using that as a 491 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: way to propel the story forward or to foreshadow things, 492 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: or to echo what might be going on at the time. Yeah, 493 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: can you tell, I've been watching very intimly. 494 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, well, the test is tomorrows. 495 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 4: When I got there, I was like, because they're everywhere 496 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 4: in Sicily, those heads, and the story behind it has 497 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 4: to and the reason for the whole season was because 498 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 4: of these heads. 499 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 5: I was like, because I would go around like, these 500 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 5: heads are everywhere, and it was. 501 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 4: About adultery and violence and sexual jealousy, and I was 502 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 4: like that just I had a different idea for the 503 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 4: second season. 504 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 5: I was like, no, we got to. 505 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 4: Do an operatic like Italian in sexual jealousy storyline. 506 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 5: I mean, it's like, that's that's what people want to 507 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 5: see anyway. 508 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 4: But also, this is the part of my job that 509 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 4: people should be jealous of, which is I go to Sicily, 510 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:12,719 Speaker 4: I'm telling them. 511 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 5: I'm doing White Lotus. 512 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 4: All of the rich like Sicilians who have these pulazzos 513 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 4: are willing to let me come in and like snoop 514 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,479 Speaker 4: around their house. I got to see all these and 515 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 4: so like two of them ended up in the show. 516 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 4: But like you walk around and you have no idea 517 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 4: that behind this, like you know edifice is like this 518 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:34,879 Speaker 4: incredible palazzo. 519 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 5: They're all A lot of them are hidden. 520 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 4: It's like and then to be able to like get 521 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 4: access to those and see them, and I was like, 522 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 4: we gotta, like, you know, so when we would get 523 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 4: into these places, I was like, we gotta shoot. We 524 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 4: gotta just like fire hose this down, Like we gotta 525 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 4: get every piece of art on the walls, like we 526 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 4: gotta do pushions on all of the you know. So 527 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 4: for someone who like you know, likes interior, you know whatever, 528 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 4: like these kind of like classic maxim list eclectic like 529 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 4: you know, like rich you know palazzas, Like I was 530 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 4: just like I was in heaven. 531 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 5: So I just felt like I had to make the 532 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 5: most of it. 533 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: And I mean it must have been an extraordinary place 534 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: to film. And is that a real hotel? Was that 535 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: hotel vacant? As well, or tell me about the location. 536 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: I want to go to that hotel. 537 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 5: Yeah, you should. 538 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 4: It's it's the Santa Manico Palace, which is like a 539 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 4: very historical It was originally a convent and then it 540 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 4: turned into a hotel, but it's been a hotel for 541 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 4: quite a long time. And lab and Truro was shot there. 542 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 4: It's like, it's it's a it's amazing because obviously, you know, 543 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 4: I got we we looked at a lot of different 544 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 4: hotels and it's just like, first the convent part of 545 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 4: it just gives it this added kind of you know, vibe, 546 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 4: and then. 547 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 5: You know, you see these terraced. 548 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 4: Hills with all these different you know villas you know 549 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 4: that are so classic in European and and then you 550 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 4: have the Greek theater on one side, and then the 551 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 4: Ionian Sea in front, and then the Mount Etna, which 552 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 4: is literally you know, belching smoke half the time, and 553 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 4: you're just like, this is if we're going to go 554 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 4: to Europe, this is what you go for. 555 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 5: You go for these views. 556 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 4: So it's definitely I highly recommend Tarmina and Sicily itself. 557 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 4: It's like you really can't spend enough time there. It's 558 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 4: like as each you know, it was just after a 559 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 4: few days it was like I was like, okay, we've 560 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 4: done this sight seeing, but like it's just like then 561 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 4: there's just this like vibe over time that just really 562 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 4: seduces you. 563 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 2: Did you find Lucia and Mia in Sicily? 564 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 5: No, we found them in Rome. 565 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 4: Simona, who plays Lucia is actually from Naples and Mia 566 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 4: is from Rome. But we had a great set of 567 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 4: casting directors from Italy who brought us a lot of options, 568 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 4: and those two and Sabrina Impatriatory who plays the manager, 569 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 4: they're all they were all incredible and so fun to 570 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 4: work with. 571 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, they were fun to watch, I'll tell you that. 572 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: And I know that you have said that the show 573 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: satirizes wealthy, white privilege, and you've said that your intention 574 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: was to quote unquote poke the bear, but through a 575 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: humanist perspective. So help us out with that, Mike, what 576 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: did you mean. 577 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 5: Well, poke the bear? 578 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 4: I don't you know, obviously I'm satirizing privilege, but you know, 579 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 4: especially with the first season, I also was poking the 580 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 4: bear as far as some of the I don't know, 581 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 4: like I wanted to give voice to both, you know, 582 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 4: the critiques of the patriarchy and all of these things 583 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 4: that you know, we are discussing, you know, had have 584 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 4: been discussing with fervor the last couple of years. 585 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 5: But also give. 586 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 4: Voice to the people that are you know, it's like, 587 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 4: you know, I have hearing you know, like like some 588 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 4: of the conversations that I'm hearing that people don't want 589 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 4: to say in public but like behind closed doors, and 590 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 4: try to you know, like not you know, make it 591 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 4: so you're kind of walking the line where okay, well 592 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 4: that sort of is a fair point and then like, 593 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 4: oh yeah, but you're saying that because this is you know, 594 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 4: you're you're defending, you know, you're on your heels. 595 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 5: So like trying to make it so it's not so 596 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 5: such a simple, pre. 597 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 4: Digested conversation and and have those conversations be. 598 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 5: Lively and like you. 599 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 6: Know, multi layered, multi layered enough that like people feel like, 600 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 6: oh they're they're being seen and then and it's still 601 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 6: challenged and so and that was that was what I 602 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 6: was trying to do. 603 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 5: And you know, like and and the fact. 604 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 4: That like people on both sides of some of these arguments, 605 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 4: like champion the show or also like hated the show, 606 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 4: it made me feel like I did my job. 607 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're you're really showing some of those tricky 608 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: conversations that people do have behind closed doors. And I 609 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 1: think that that's what contributes Mike to the realness of 610 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: the show and the dialogue that you know, you feel 611 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: like this is what people really are talking about, and 612 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: that you're not following some kind of prescriptive dialogue to 613 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: be on the right side of any issue. 614 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, because I don't even I don't even It's like, ultimately, 615 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 4: it's like, I don't think it's the dramatist job to 616 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 4: it's I don't think it's it's a message conveying machine. 617 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 4: If I was trying to make a message, then I 618 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 4: would be communicating in a different medium or a different 619 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 4: kind of Uh. It's really about giving voice to the 620 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 4: different people who exist in our world and try, you know, 621 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 4: do my best to make it feel like it's a 622 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 4: you know, a dimensional conversation. 623 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: After the break, why Mike spends so much time in 624 00:31:43,680 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 1: the gray areas of human behavior. I know that a 625 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: lot of people had taken note that your characters, so 626 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: many of them are just unlikable or complicated, or there 627 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: are certain things you like, and certain things you really 628 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: don't like, so you feel conflicted. And I feel very 629 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: conflicted about Tanya. I really disliked her at the end 630 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: of last season, and now I don't dislike her. I 631 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 1: feel sorry for her because she's quite pathetic, but she's 632 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: also sort of lovable too. 633 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean yeah, I mean well, Jennifer Coolidge 634 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 4: is lovable period, and so she brings the lovability for sure. 635 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 4: But yeah, I do think it's like I, especially the 636 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 4: first season, you know, I wanted there to be two tracks, 637 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 4: which is, you know, her as the underdog who's looking 638 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 4: for love and dealing with the fact that her mom 639 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 4: died and you know the pain of that, and so 640 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 4: on one side you're rooting for her, and then there's 641 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 4: this other story where she's kind of dangling this carrot 642 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 4: over this other woman's you know eye sure and future 643 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 4: and making her feel like there's hope for something, and 644 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 4: then she's kind of a flake. 645 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 5: And that just seems very true to life for me. 646 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 4: To some of these women that I've met and or 647 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 4: you know man too, But just like where you know, 648 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 4: they see themselves as a victim in some sense and. 649 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 5: Then savior or savior or savior. 650 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, and and they don't see how that they can 651 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 4: also be victimizing and that they that they yeah, that 652 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 4: they they have agency and that they. 653 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 5: Are yeah, that they are somehow blowing it. 654 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: Let me ask you about some of the other characters 655 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: in kind of a rapid fire way. We talked about 656 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: Mia and Lucia, and we talked about Valentina. Let's talk 657 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: about Porsia. And I love this discussion online about Porsia's clothes. 658 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: Have you seen this, Mike, I, Oh, yeah, yeah. 659 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: That she dresses like a gen Z threat store, Like 660 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: nothing really goes together, like it doesn't look good or not. 661 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 2: I mean, what do you think of all that? It's 662 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 2: so funny. 663 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 4: Well, a lot of the credit goes to I mean, 664 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 4: that was her character on the page, but Haley Lou Richardson, 665 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 4: who's the actress, and then Alex Baverd, who is our 666 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,720 Speaker 4: costume designer, you know, are the true geniuses behind her looks. 667 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 4: And you know, I'm I'm a little bit like, I'm 668 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 4: women's fashion is not my gough to. 669 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 5: But I but I but I I. 670 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 4: Did weigh in, I did weigh in, I approved, I supervised, 671 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 4: but I but yeah, I just think that you know, 672 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 4: to me, Portia is somebody who I see this a lot, 673 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 4: and this was something that I feel like online I 674 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 4: think is the thing that I I find interesting is 675 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,399 Speaker 4: that there's a lot of people who are like rich, 676 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 4: you know, like bad bad rich people. Rich people are terrible, 677 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 4: you know, like it's this like this kind of like 678 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 4: you know that that I that I'm allowed to make 679 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,839 Speaker 4: the show as long as I show how bad rich 680 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 4: people are. 681 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 5: That the moral of the story is that rich people 682 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 5: are better something. 683 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 4: And it's like and and and obviously you know, there 684 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 4: is there's truth to that, like a lot of rich 685 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 4: people are fugging up the world, and so like I 686 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 4: you know, but but I also you know, you you 687 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 4: and so like I guess Porsche was like a vehicle 688 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 4: to explore how she sees in Tanya all of these 689 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 4: bad character traits and that she, you know, if and 690 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 4: if she had what Tanya had, she would have her 691 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 4: life together and she would be she you know, like 692 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 4: she would be she wouldn't do it better than Tanya. 693 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 4: But you see how in her own way she's she 694 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 4: is kind of lost in in a similar way, she's 695 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 4: actually kind of a mini me to Tanya, and. 696 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,399 Speaker 1: In fact, Tanya tells Porsia, you remind me a lot 697 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: of myself when I was younger. But I also think 698 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: Porscha is very gen z and that she's sort of 699 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: a little bit lost and just doesn't know what she 700 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 1: wants to do. She doesn't really have any goals. She's 701 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. Did that I mean, do 702 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 1: you know young people like that that kind of helped 703 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: shape that character. 704 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, I do think. 705 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 4: I mean again, I don't want to get crucified, but 706 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 4: I do think I've noticed in this younger generation a 707 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 4: desire to try on identities and feel like there's something like, like, 708 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 4: I don't know, courageous about about identity as a way 709 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 4: to express yourself through whatever, like through the way you 710 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 4: talk about yourself or the clothes you wear or whatever. 711 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 4: But like, ultimately it is very naval gazing, and it 712 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 4: adds to I think. 713 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 5: Adds to malaise. I think it actually it makes. 714 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 4: Your It's like the more you start, like, yeah, like 715 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 4: talking about yourself and thinking about yourself along these lines, 716 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 4: it actually just exacerbates the problem that you're trying to solve. 717 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 4: So like I think a little bit of Porsche comes 718 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 4: through and that I mean, I I I, you know, 719 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 4: like I don't want to think that I'm totally you know, 720 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 4: but like she's just like I want this and I 721 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 4: don't know if I just want to you've fulfilled and 722 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 4: it's like, you know, it's just there's just something about 723 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 4: that that is just yeah, it's maybe it's yeah, maybe 724 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,439 Speaker 4: it's agism. Maybe I'm just like I've become the person 725 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 4: who makes you. But like I just when I was younger, 726 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 4: it was just like it's it to me. I still 727 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 4: feel like it's like you mean to like move outside 728 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 4: of yourself, to like find courage and move outside of 729 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 4: your own you know, it's like your own navel gazing 730 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 4: to really then fully develop. 731 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 5: You know. 732 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 4: It's like if you're just always looking inside and doing 733 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 4: selfies and and calling yourself a different thing, and it's 734 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 4: all about the clothes you're wearing, you know, it's like 735 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 4: that that just feels like that's a that's going to 736 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 4: be a dead end road. 737 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 2: So that's Porsia. 738 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: And what about the foursome of Harper, Ethan, Cameron, and Daphne. 739 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: I have to say, I think Aubrey Plaza is my 740 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: favorite character in the whole show. I like her perpetual 741 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,800 Speaker 1: state of ONWII that is now kind of morphed into 742 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,439 Speaker 1: something else all together. And I love what you're doing 743 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: about jealousy with ethan and and Harper. So tell me 744 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: a little bit about Harper's character. 745 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 4: Well, I Aubrey is a friend of mine and I 746 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:25,919 Speaker 4: wanted to get her in the show. So a little 747 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 4: bit of it started with just like, you know, Aubrey 748 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 4: is a very complicated, interesting person, but she's kind of 749 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 4: known for this sort of dead like the way she 750 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 4: comes in at the beginning is kind of like maybe 751 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 4: the way people see her or what thing they think 752 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 4: that she's gonna be if she joins the white Lotus world, 753 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 4: but then start to show these other kind of more 754 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 4: vulnerable sides and that her toughness is a little bit 755 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 4: of a front and and but I liked, you know, 756 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 4: like what I was trying to do with that whole 757 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 4: storyline is, you know, it has to do with it's 758 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 4: kind of what brad status was as far as status, 759 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 4: but like with sec like what that we're always comparing 760 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,359 Speaker 4: ourselves in our relationship to other people's relationships and what 761 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 4: they have and what they it seems like they you know, 762 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 4: like what they do better what they do worse? 763 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 5: And how how? 764 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 4: And I was kind of playing a little bit at 765 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,560 Speaker 4: the beginning where it's like you think, okay, here's start 766 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 4: like NPR listening like you know, liberal, like you know, 767 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 4: like these are the good guys that are going to 768 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,240 Speaker 4: relate to and then this other couple they're so vacuous 769 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,280 Speaker 4: and you know, it's like but then kind of playing 770 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 4: a little bit with which is maybe that other couple 771 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 4: is like dysfunctional and crazy. 772 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 5: It's like, well they seem to be having more fun. 773 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 4: Like you know, like that that that maybe you know, 774 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 4: like maybe it's not as as simple as all of that, 775 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,240 Speaker 4: and and I don't want to give away the ending, 776 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 4: but yeah, how it all, How it all lands is 777 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,920 Speaker 4: kind of a little bit of insight into what I'm 778 00:39:54,040 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 4: trying to not say, but like, yeah. 779 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 5: Try to reveal something a little bit more unexpected. I 780 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 5: guess it. 781 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: Also seems to be a bit of a commentary on 782 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: tech and finance bros. 783 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I just think. 784 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 2: New money, new money status. 785 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: Competition, that weird sort of dance you play when you're 786 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: financially dependent on someone, which it seems like Cameron is 787 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 1: sort of needs Ethan because He's made a boatload of 788 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: money in tech, right, there's something weird about that dynamic. 789 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 5: Well, I definitely. 790 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 4: I as a guy, I've been privy to lots of 791 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 4: conversations over the years. I live like next to Brentwood, 792 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 4: so there's just like you know, the Brentwood Country Mart 793 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 4: where like lawyers and finance people and whatever like people 794 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 4: in my industry or whatever, and how they're buddies. But 795 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 4: like even in the in every conversation, you just sense 796 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 4: this peacockying and like they're trying to figure out like 797 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,479 Speaker 4: where they stand as far as who's making them more money, 798 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 4: you know, who makes like where? Yeah, it's uh, And 799 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 4: so that's always very funny to me because I I. 800 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 5: Don't I whatever, it's yeah. 801 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 4: So yeah, it was kind of playing with like yeah, 802 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 4: they're friends, but like are they friends? 803 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 5: Like what are they? Like? 804 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 4: Like the competition is so heavy that it's just like 805 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 4: can they ever really be friends? You know? 806 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? 807 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: I find that whole sort of foursome fascinating And I 808 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: love f Marie Abraham, which I mean, by the way, 809 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 1: what a what a feather in your cap to get 810 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: him to be in white Lotus. And then you've got 811 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:43,399 Speaker 1: from the sopranos. You've got Michael Imperio. Imperio can help me. 812 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,840 Speaker 5: With that, Michael Imperially Yeah, and. 813 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 1: Who plays his son. And then you have Adam DeMarco 814 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: who plays Albi. Uh so you have these three generations 815 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: of Italian Americans. 816 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, so yeah, yeah. 817 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 4: Well, first of all, yes, Murray and Michael are I'm 818 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,799 Speaker 4: huge I was the huge fans of prior and then 819 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 4: working with them even more so. Murray is like, you know, 820 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 4: he's I think he's eighty two years old and he's 821 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,840 Speaker 4: so still like enamored with the process and acting and 822 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,400 Speaker 4: storytelling and it's inspiring. 823 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 5: And Michael is one of the most he's in. 824 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,760 Speaker 4: The pantheon of like the easiest, most like generous actors 825 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,320 Speaker 4: I've ever worked with. So like, those two are incredible. 826 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 4: And then of course Adam de mark is one of 827 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,360 Speaker 4: the sweetest kids. So like they were a great group. 828 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 4: But like contextually, as far as the ideas of that, 829 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 4: I just feel like, you know, I wanted you know, 830 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 4: it's kind of getting into male sexuality and desire and 831 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,800 Speaker 4: male role, you know, the role like you know, men's 832 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,879 Speaker 4: roles when it comes to romance and how they deal 833 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 4: with the women and and just voicing the different generational 834 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:04,319 Speaker 4: attitudes in a kind of classic way, and how they're 835 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 4: all kind of even though they're all sort of negotiating 836 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:12,440 Speaker 4: with the new ways of talking about relationships and sex 837 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 4: and interactions with women, that they're all kind of trapped 838 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 4: in a certain sense. 839 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,920 Speaker 1: To Derek, who works on this podcast, who's one of 840 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 1: the producers, talked about how this season portrays a wide 841 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 1: variety of sexual relationships and entanglements, and you were just 842 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 1: talking about sex, just as the opening title sequence portrays 843 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:41,400 Speaker 1: increasing debauchery in the art, as the rollicking theme song plays, 844 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 1: the show itself feels like it's revealing more and more 845 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 1: about the ways that humans experience their sexuality or suppress 846 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 1: it or given to it or both. Even these are 847 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 1: Derek's observations, and I'm curious what you think of that, 848 00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,400 Speaker 1: and sort of how you were trying to portray different 849 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,280 Speaker 1: just different kinds of relationships. And for example, you portray 850 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:10,359 Speaker 1: sex workers, you know, Lucia and Mia, very differently than 851 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 1: kind of what we normally see in TV books or movies. 852 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,960 Speaker 4: Well, I, you know, with the title sequence, I basically said, 853 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,800 Speaker 4: you know, it should start with these kind of pretty 854 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 4: you know, like like you're going into a palazzo and 855 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 4: the beautiful walls, and then you start seeing little things 856 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 4: in the corners and you realize there's this kind of 857 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:38,760 Speaker 4: mischievous or even kind of creeper purvy like sexual things 858 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,239 Speaker 4: that are happening in the margins. 859 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,839 Speaker 5: And then by the end of the credit sequence, it's 860 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:44,520 Speaker 5: almost like a. 861 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 4: Bosch painting of like just you know, and where you know, 862 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 4: the carnality of it and the desire of it is 863 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,440 Speaker 4: like front and center. And I felt like that with 864 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 4: the season two, which is like you start off and 865 00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 4: it's like, you know, a little bit of these repressed 866 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 4: people trying to like you know, figure out, like you know, 867 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,400 Speaker 4: how to have a good vacation, and that like being 868 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,400 Speaker 4: in insight to of sicily and in this kind of 869 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,760 Speaker 4: little crucible that like the desire and you start seeing 870 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,080 Speaker 4: desire and everyone and it's yeah, it becomes a very 871 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:18,840 Speaker 4: horny show. 872 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 5: And I just felt like it was like and especially 873 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:22,840 Speaker 5: like you know, like and as far as like uh. 874 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,799 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean and I I yeah, you know, I don't. 875 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,480 Speaker 4: I don't think I'll always write stories like this. It's 876 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 4: not certainly my wheelhouse, like directing scenes of like intimacy 877 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 4: between people and like getting people nude and stuff. 878 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 5: It's just like I was like, you know, like I 879 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 5: was like, this is not something I'm doing. Yeah, I 880 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:43,880 Speaker 5: was like, whatever you guys want to do? 881 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,360 Speaker 4: Like what faithfully, you know, when you hire actors that 882 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,880 Speaker 4: are exhibitionists, they're often less inhibited than I am. So 883 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,919 Speaker 4: like they're like, you want me to take my top off? Yeah, sure, 884 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 4: if that's good, Sure there's cook yeah. So like so yeah, 885 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,319 Speaker 4: so that was but I but I but I do 886 00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,719 Speaker 4: feel like it was like it's fun to show I 887 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 4: actually think it's fun to show women horny horny women 888 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,360 Speaker 4: because I feel like that sometimes is something that like, 889 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 4: you know, a lot of times in in drama it's 890 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 4: like they're either victimized or virginal or like I don't 891 00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 4: know it, or it's like this kind of like you know, 892 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 4: like they'll talk it's like sex in the city. It's 893 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,200 Speaker 4: like it is it's very like talky, but like you know, 894 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 4: where you're actually feeling the desire and feeling the you know. 895 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 4: It's like and you know, to me, that just feels 896 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:36,959 Speaker 4: true to life in a way. 897 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:39,920 Speaker 5: I guess I don't know what else to put it. 898 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:40,720 Speaker 5: But anyway. 899 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,279 Speaker 4: So so yeah, so I just thought it was like, 900 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,160 Speaker 4: let's do sex, let's just go all in, and and 901 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,440 Speaker 4: that was kind of the I was like, if we're 902 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:49,759 Speaker 4: going to go all in, it's like by the end, 903 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,120 Speaker 4: you just want to feel like, yeah, the animal in 904 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:53,680 Speaker 4: the in each of these. 905 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:56,120 Speaker 5: Human characters. 906 00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,400 Speaker 1: So this is the big question. Is there going to 907 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 1: be a White Law is three? Is there going to 908 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:02,440 Speaker 1: be a third season? 909 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,440 Speaker 5: Yes, they picked us up for a third season. 910 00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, so yes, where Mike, where? 911 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,360 Speaker 5: Well, I want to go to Asia, That's what I think. 912 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 4: Look, I mean it feels like, you know, you start 913 00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,719 Speaker 4: in like America they do, Europe feels like the next 914 00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:19,399 Speaker 4: one would be. 915 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,440 Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't know why that feels that. 916 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 4: It's just like I'm trying to think, like, like, yeah, 917 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,080 Speaker 4: where does Katie Current go on vacation for you? 918 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,439 Speaker 5: Tell me? Actually, I you know what. I ran into 919 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:29,680 Speaker 5: you once on vacation. 920 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,839 Speaker 4: I was in Yeah, I was in Berlin, staying at 921 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,400 Speaker 4: a classic old hotel in the middle Berlin, I forget 922 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 4: the name of it. And you were staying there at 923 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,239 Speaker 4: the same time with Io. Ran into you. I ran 924 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:44,840 Speaker 4: I think we were like there the same days or whatever. 925 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 4: Because I ran into you. You're very friendly. You seem 926 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:53,480 Speaker 4: like you're having a good time. He's still like smiling, good, great, 927 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,080 Speaker 4: and yeah, you guys. I don't know if you were 928 00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 4: there for work or vacation or whatever, but you were 929 00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:59,000 Speaker 4: you were there for vacation. 930 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 1: And you know, my husband John is a huge Survivor nut. 931 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,959 Speaker 1: I mean, he has seen every season. He finds it fascinating. 932 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 1: So he loves you from Survivor. 933 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:11,760 Speaker 5: Oh that's cool. 934 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 4: Well, I think it was prior to me doing Survivor 935 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,040 Speaker 4: it was you were it might I think it was 936 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 4: what didn't Yeah. 937 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,400 Speaker 2: Why I got married in twenty fourteen, so it was prob. 938 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,120 Speaker 5: I think it was like after that, it was like 939 00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:24,160 Speaker 5: twenty fifteen. 940 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was twenty twenty sixteen. Maybe twenty fifteen. 941 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, I did Survivor twenty seventeen. 942 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,120 Speaker 2: Oh okay, Well, now. 943 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,799 Speaker 4: You seem very you know, you seem like you had 944 00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:36,920 Speaker 4: happy energy. 945 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,960 Speaker 5: I liked I liked you from just the vibe. 946 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,040 Speaker 2: Oh that's so nice. Well you is it. 947 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,279 Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil the finale, but do you 948 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,400 Speaker 1: think we'll see Tanya in the third season? 949 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,839 Speaker 4: I love well, I love I love writing Tanya, and 950 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:57,840 Speaker 4: I love I love working with Jennifer, so definitely could be. 951 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,880 Speaker 1: You can't tell me. If you tell me, you'd have 952 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,360 Speaker 1: to kill me, right, Mike, Why. 953 00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,960 Speaker 5: What do you mean you want to dies? Well? You 954 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 5: never know. Could be I'm not telling you, you know, 955 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 5: I don't want to ruin it. 956 00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:18,200 Speaker 1: A huge thank you to my guest Mike White. I 957 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,480 Speaker 1: imagine you're all tuning in this Sunday, December eleventh for 958 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,320 Speaker 1: the finale to find out who makes it out of 959 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,640 Speaker 1: the White Lotus alive. If not, whenever you're listening to this, 960 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:30,600 Speaker 1: Happy Benjin. 961 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:33,719 Speaker 2: Next Question with. 962 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,280 Speaker 1: Katie Kirk is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kirk Media. 963 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:41,240 Speaker 1: The executive producers are Me, Katie Kirk, and Courtney Ltz. 964 00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:46,520 Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Lauren Hanson. Associate producers Derek Clements 965 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,359 Speaker 1: and Adriana Fazio. The show is edited and mixed by 966 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:54,080 Speaker 1: Derek Clements. For more information about today's episode, or to 967 00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,719 Speaker 1: sign up for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go 968 00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,600 Speaker 1: to Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me at 969 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,200 Speaker 1: Katie correct on Instagram and all my social media channels. 970 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:08,879 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, 971 00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,360 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.