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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to Naked Sports. We are doing a

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Speaker 1: today's show about Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bean Bryant, many of

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Speaker 1: you may know Sunday was a fifth anniversary of Kobe

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Speaker 1: Bryant's death, and it still feels for me anyway, as

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Speaker 1: a Lakers fan, loud and proud with my Lakers shirt on,

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Speaker 1: it still feels to me very real. It feels as

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Speaker 1: if it's not something that I have been able to

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Speaker 1: come to terms with. And also it also just reminds

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Speaker 1: me that life is just so precious. And so there

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Speaker 1: is a docuseries that came out this weekend Saturday, January

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Speaker 1: twenty fifth, and it is about the making of a legend,

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Speaker 1: Kobe Bean Bryant, and it gives us the before and

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Speaker 1: after of Kobe. It gives us Kobe as a kid

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Speaker 1: in Italy. It gives us Kobe before he went to

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Speaker 1: the league, and then it gives us Kobe, you know,

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Speaker 1: while he's in the league and trying to figure it out.

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Speaker 1: And like any hero, there are so many different sides

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Speaker 1: to Kobe that some people love and some people don't.

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Speaker 1: Is that perfect intersection of being a hero but also

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Speaker 1: being someone that can be villainized at the same time,

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Speaker 1: every one of our heroes lives in that dichotomy of

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Speaker 1: where they are loved and hated. And it also talks

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Speaker 1: about Colorado, and I do believe to me, approaching what

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Speaker 1: did or did not happen in Colorado has been arguably

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Speaker 1: the hardest story to reconcile about Kobe Bryant as one

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Speaker 1: of his biggest fans, I also believe there are people

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Speaker 1: who are confused by that as well. But I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: say the ugly part out loud. The truth of it

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Speaker 1: is is that winning solves all and we're watching it

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Speaker 1: in real time in life, but with all of our

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Speaker 1: heroes and our famous people. But I'm really excited about

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Speaker 1: the stock You series because I think it's time to

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Speaker 1: honor him in many other ways ways that allow us.

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Speaker 1: If you are a fan of sport, if you are

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Speaker 1: a fan of the Lakers, if you're a fan of

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Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant, it allows us to get some answers to

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Speaker 1: such a gray figure. And by gray, I mean he

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Speaker 1: lived in the middle. We only knew what we needed

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Speaker 1: to know. He didn't tell us much about who he was.

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Speaker 1: I really don't know much about his family life, or

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Speaker 1: how he grew up. I don't really know much about

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Speaker 1: his relationships with the people he played with, and as

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Speaker 1: a fan, I think I want all of those answers.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at

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Speaker 1: the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal

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Speaker 1: the common threads that bind them all.

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Speaker 2: So what's happening in women's basketball right now is what

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Speaker 2: we've been trying.

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Speaker 3: To get to for almost thirty years.

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Speaker 1: From the stadiums where athletes break barriers and set records.

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Speaker 3: Cayman Clark broke the all time single game assist record.

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Speaker 3: This is crazy for rookies to be doing.

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Speaker 2: To the polls where history is written, and now we

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Speaker 2: have Kamala Harrison, it feels more like women are sort

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Speaker 2: of taken what they've always deserved, as opposed to waiting

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Speaker 2: on somebody to give them what they deserve.

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Speaker 1: Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms

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Speaker 1: and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit

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Speaker 1: down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics, because at

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Speaker 1: the core of it all, how we see one issue

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Speaker 1: shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Gary Champion.

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Speaker 3: My name is Eric Johnson. I am executive producer for

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Speaker 3: CNN original series. I'm also EP of some of our

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Speaker 3: singular hours, Blindsided on her Terms, Serena Williams taking on

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Speaker 3: Taylor Swift. We did Call Me Country, which is a

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Speaker 3: Beyonce doc that we did last year, and then we

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Speaker 3: did the Making of Martha Stewart last January, and this

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Speaker 3: year the making of a legend with That's about Kobe, Right,

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Speaker 3: Kobe believed in himself, even at the youngest possible age.

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Speaker 3: I have decided to skip college and take my talent

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Speaker 3: in the NBA huge, global to people who may never

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Speaker 3: even know what a basketball looks like. Felt this present?

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Speaker 1: How did this all come about?

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Speaker 3: So I'm a huge basketball fan, Knicks fan. Admittedly, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 3: I'm not.

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Speaker 1: Tokyoyo Tkyoh Carrie, but.

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Speaker 3: I'll make a huge basketball fan. I love basketball. I

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Speaker 3: love this game that's built around putting a ball in

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Speaker 3: a hoop, and that's the whole game it's about. It's

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Speaker 3: just simple, and its evolved into something that is artful,

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Speaker 3: that is political, that gets people angry, that makes people smile,

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Speaker 3: makes people laugh, makes people cry, and and has done

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Speaker 3: all those things. With me and after Kobe died tragically

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Speaker 3: five years ago, you know, he was one of my

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Speaker 3: favorite players. Even though he tormented my knicks, he was

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Speaker 3: one of my favorite players, just like the heart that

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Speaker 3: he poured into this game that again is about just

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Speaker 3: simple putting a ball into a basket. And so something

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Speaker 3: that struck me after he died and when we were

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Speaker 3: searching for what our next, you know, Bio was going

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Speaker 3: to be from my team, something that struck me was

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Speaker 3: that I really didn't feel that people after he passed

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Speaker 3: really knew why his story connected with them. His death

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Speaker 3: brought a lot of people together in a way that

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Speaker 3: was surprising to me. I was surprised by the amount

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Speaker 3: of just the global love that people had on this

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Speaker 3: individual at that moment, and I was really just taken

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Speaker 3: by it. But I didn't feel that people really connected

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Speaker 3: with this idea that he had a family, he had

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Speaker 3: something beyond just him on the court. And when we

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Speaker 3: were putting this and we were developing this, I wanted

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Speaker 3: to know more about his parents, his relationships off the court.

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Speaker 3: We wanted to know. I knew that he grew up

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Speaker 3: in Italy and with his dead and.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that part especially is very vague like, yeah, grew

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Speaker 1: up in Italy. That was the life. You spoke a

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Speaker 1: Tai and we knew that, But you're.

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Speaker 3: Right, you didn't really know why that was important, how

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Speaker 3: it framed him. I knew about when we get into

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Speaker 3: Colorado and all of that. When the alleged assault that happened,

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Speaker 3: I knew enough about it, but I didn't really think

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Speaker 3: that deeply into it. And so when we were building this,

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Speaker 3: you know, I was curious about what things made this

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Speaker 3: man the man that he was, and we started doing

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Speaker 3: a lot of research. We sent the team out out

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Speaker 3: to Europe, to Italy for a couple of weeks to

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Speaker 3: talk to his friends out.

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Speaker 1: There, you know, and let me I hate to do

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Speaker 1: this right here, but when you say you sent the

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Speaker 1: team out to Italy and you have to talk to

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Speaker 1: his friends and family, never once did you think, let

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Speaker 1: me call it the biggest Kobe fan. I know she

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Speaker 1: deserves some positive she deserves to be in Italy journo.

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Speaker 1: We had just given so much love and all of

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Speaker 1: the bone.

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Speaker 3: That I did not go on that trip either.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, fine, let me just move on from that. Okay, no,

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Speaker 1: this sounds wonderful. I'm excited.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So we sent a team there just to get

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Speaker 3: to know or to speak to people that grew up

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Speaker 3: with him there correct and could tell us his story

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Speaker 3: in fluent Italian. There we got all of this amazing

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Speaker 3: footage that we've never seen of Kobe and his family

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Speaker 3: living there. And then when we started doing our research

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Speaker 3: and our archival search for video here in Pennsylvania, Philadelphia.

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Speaker 3: My whole family's from Philly. I love Philadelphia. It was

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Speaker 3: interesting to understand how that city shaped him. Yeah. And

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Speaker 3: then Los Angeles, of course, like there's no place that

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Speaker 3: loves Kobe more than that city. And so you have

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Speaker 3: this this guy that was built by a lot more

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Speaker 3: than just the stuff that he did on the court,

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Speaker 3: and that was something that we were just eager to

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Speaker 3: get into.

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Speaker 1: Eric. When I was looking at these screeners, there are

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Speaker 1: three because it's this is a three part docuseriies. So

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Speaker 1: you're welcome, ladies and gentlemen who loves sports and Kobe.

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Speaker 1: What I thought was really interesting was you were able

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Speaker 1: in these three episodes to talk about very almost segmented

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Speaker 1: parts of his life that were very important to what

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Speaker 1: we remember. One in who he was, how Kobe was,

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Speaker 1: you know, Kobe before and after Colorado, Kobe before and

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Speaker 1: after the Achilles to tear Kobe before and after shot.

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Speaker 1: Quite frankly, these he had lives and they were all

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Speaker 1: and it could have been happening simultaneously. But at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, Kope was. He connected with so

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Speaker 1: many different I think with me for different reasons than

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Speaker 1: he would connect with you. I like that he didn't

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Speaker 1: like to talk to people. I like that he was

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Speaker 1: nobody's friend. I like that he was really clear that

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Speaker 1: I can't pass you the ball because you don't work

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Speaker 1: hard enough in practice, so I can't trust you to me.

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Speaker 1: There was no emotion to the way in which he

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Speaker 1: played unless it was about this singular thing, which was winning. Now.

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Speaker 1: When he came to Los Angeles, I remember like it

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Speaker 1: was yesterday. Talk to me about what people will learn

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Speaker 1: about a kid coming straight from high school, because the

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Speaker 1: social equity is different when you come to a team

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Speaker 1: like the Los Angeles Lakers and you're eighteen years old

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Speaker 1: and you're just shooting shots randomly. What were you able

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Speaker 1: to discover about his personality when he left high school

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Speaker 1: and went to Los Angeles to play professional sports. One

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Speaker 1: of a few.

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Speaker 3: Man confidence is not even the word it is. I

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Speaker 3: kept thinking back and when we were doing this, when

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Speaker 3: we were looking at it him as a teenager going

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Speaker 3: to the NBA, I'm thinking about myself. You try to,

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Speaker 3: you know, empathize and as much as you can. I

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Speaker 3: am not I'm a terrible basketball player. But I'm thinking

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Speaker 3: about you were entering not a workforce, You're entering a profession.

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Speaker 3: So that's one part of it. It's a physical profession

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Speaker 3: against people that are that you idolize. And so you're

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Speaker 3: as a kid and yeah, he was bigger than most

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Speaker 3: kids his ageality, you're entering this place and it's a

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Speaker 3: serious sport. They want to jack you up. And he

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Speaker 3: did not enter that sport soft. He entered thinking I'm

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Speaker 3: better than you. I'm not going to do all of

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Speaker 3: that rookie stuff that you make the rookies carry this

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Speaker 3: and then I'm not going to do any of it

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Speaker 3: because I'm not. Because I'm not, and I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to apologize.

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Speaker 1: And because I don't. I shouldn't.

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Speaker 3: I shouldn't, And it's it is, I don't know how

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Speaker 3: you have that. I don't know. That's something. And Chasa

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Speaker 3: McGrady says, this team when I sat that with him.

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Speaker 3: He said, I not everybody has that, correct, you know,

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Speaker 3: that's something you're born with. Is this super confidence his parents,

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Speaker 3: And this is something that I was very much eager

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Speaker 3: to kind of explore as much as we could. His

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Speaker 3: father was a basketball player. His mother taught him great

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Speaker 3: discipline and competitiveness, and he took that from them and

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Speaker 3: their belief. They had a lot of belief in him.

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Speaker 3: When he went off to the NBA, they were right

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Speaker 3: there and said, oh, yeah, he can do it. And

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Speaker 3: I just that's mind boggling.

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Speaker 1: It's mind boggling because usually your parents are trying to

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Speaker 1: hold you back. But the way he even carried himself,

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Speaker 1: there's an image there's a clip that you use that

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Speaker 1: we've seen over before, but when he was leaving high

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Speaker 1: school and he just stood at the podium and he

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Speaker 1: was just looking around like you're welcome, it felt very presidential. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: shades on his head. He was like, let me bless

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Speaker 1: you all with this information that I'm going to share.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and take my palettes, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I remember that the moment, and it's when do

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Speaker 3: you a high schooler? And it's hard for people to

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Speaker 3: see what he was then because he's so tall and

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Speaker 3: he's in a suit. But like, this is an actual

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Speaker 3: kid that is going to correct Jordan correct and that

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Speaker 3: is out there saying he's better correct.

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Speaker 1: And he was a kid.

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Speaker 3: He's a kid, and when.

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Speaker 1: He believed it or not, he believed it, you know

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Speaker 1: what I.

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Speaker 3: Mean, Like, that's right, that's right. And so and also

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Speaker 3: to go through that whole season really not caring if

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Speaker 3: people like you, which is something we all, you know,

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Speaker 3: we struggled now with imposter syndrome and this and that

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Speaker 3: and the other thing. And he's just like, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 3: an impostor. I don't care. And it's it's incredible.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, did I say that war away to such

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Speaker 1: and such? Like Melway's like, I don't know what happened. Amnesia.

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Speaker 1: The greats have amnesia. It's the saying in sports, the

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Speaker 1: greats have amnesia. They're able to forget and focus on

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Speaker 1: what happens in life. But I mean that applies to life.

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Speaker 1: But the people who don't ruminate over things and just

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Speaker 1: do what they know their instinct tells him to do,

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Speaker 1: whether that be truly authentic or play really well or

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Speaker 1: just really special. And he was one of those special guys.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of that had to do he

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Speaker 1: let me, let me put him on the couch. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of that had to do too with

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Speaker 1: his relationship with his parents. As we know, he didn't

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Speaker 1: have one, and that is a really hard thing to understand.

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Speaker 1: That wound is tough, no matter how comfortable he was.

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Speaker 1: How do you think, what were you able to discover

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Speaker 1: without obviously giving everything away, but what were you able

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Speaker 1: to discover in this docu series about that, about that

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Speaker 1: relationship that went unrepaired even until his death.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think that it's complicated, and I'm

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Speaker 3: I'm in listen. I'm in no position to judge anybody's

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Speaker 3: relationship with their family member, especially when you're very young

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Speaker 3: and you start making money and your parents are living

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Speaker 3: with you. I can imagine, and you're Kobe, You're you're

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Speaker 3: the best at something at your level, and you're trying

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Speaker 3: to grapple with being the best and also being a

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Speaker 3: man and also so trying to you know, he would

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Speaker 3: still we were told he was still like taking the

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Speaker 3: trash out for his folks and stuff. It was like

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Speaker 3: a real they were a real unit. I think there

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Speaker 3: are things that we don't know, and we won't know

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Speaker 3: until those groups decide to kind of come out and

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Speaker 3: talk about them in terms of what really went on

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Speaker 3: with their relationship on things that we just didn't see.

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Speaker 3: But I do think, I like, I mean, I'm an idealist.

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Speaker 3: I like to believe that, you know, he's still carried

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Speaker 3: a lot of the lessons that they taught him on

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Speaker 3: and off the court. And when we it was really

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Speaker 3: fun to hear the interviews few as they are with

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Speaker 3: his mom and with his father. Yeah, that's yeah, you

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Speaker 3: can you can really hear him in that, you know,

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Speaker 3: and it you know, it's sad to think about how

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Speaker 3: their their relationship was fractured, but it's also you hope

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Speaker 3: that he was able to kind of carry on some

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Speaker 3: of the major lessons that they taught.

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Speaker 1: So when we come back explains how they decided to

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Speaker 1: approach the infamous Colorado rape accusations back in a moment.

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Speaker 3: Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant has been accused of

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Speaker 3: sexual assault. In the back of his mind, he was

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Speaker 3: thinking that in my family examle.

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Speaker 1: Exam like that, how would you describe Colorado? How would

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Speaker 1: you describe the rape out allegations Kobe before and Kobe

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Speaker 1: after and how the world viewed him.

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Speaker 3: So let's let's take a step back, because I the

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Speaker 3: Colorado part of it. I want to touch on how

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Speaker 3: we used it and why I felt, as the executive

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Speaker 3: producer that it was important for us to talk about this, and.

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Speaker 1: That is.

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Speaker 3: When you start to look at his life. And when

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Speaker 3: I started to look at the actual transcripts and dig

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Speaker 3: into it, I had misremembered a lot from my time

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Speaker 3: when when that story happened. There were just things in

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Speaker 3: my brain. I had remembered that whole a situation much

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Speaker 3: differently than when I actually started to read what happened,

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Speaker 3: and I was I was struck by that. And it's

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Speaker 3: conflicting because you have your thoughts about this person and

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Speaker 3: how they died and how you remember them in that moment.

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Speaker 1: What were you conflicted by?

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Speaker 3: I don't think I knew the coverage as well as

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Speaker 3: I thought I knew it in terms of what the

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Speaker 3: young lady had said happened. I certainly don't remember reading

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Speaker 3: that apology letter, which is remarkable from Kobe.

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Speaker 1: You don't remember the letter.

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Speaker 3: I don't remember at that time. There were just things that,

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Speaker 3: like I personally was not. I remembered the story differently, okay,

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Speaker 3: And so for me it was important to see how

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Speaker 3: he was before that, like you mentioned, then after.

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Speaker 1: How was he before in your eyes?

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Speaker 3: In my eyes, he was choose my words carefully, sure, yeah,

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Speaker 3: podcasts yeah yeah, yeah yeah, of course. In my in

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Speaker 3: my brain, I felt like there was a vulnerability after

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Speaker 3: the fact, there was I think the Mamba mentality after

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Speaker 3: he after that whole episode, how he kind of drilled

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Speaker 3: down and was able to channel his feelings someplace in

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Speaker 3: a way that I don't think he really was before,

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Speaker 3: something that I was just really saying, I'm saying after

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Speaker 3: because beforehand the thing.

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Speaker 1: That I'm alway, there's and there's eight Kobe exactly.

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Speaker 3: But I think the thing that I was very struck

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Speaker 3: struck by when wed in the transcript is just how

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Speaker 3: open he was with the officers who spoke to Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I was struck by that this man who you

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Speaker 3: said it he didn't talk to. He was very very private,

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Speaker 3: and in this moment when he's talking to telling people

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Speaker 3: what happened, he is open. He's vulnerable in that moment,

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Speaker 3: and I'm sure he probably looks at it much differently

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Speaker 3: it would look at it much differently after the fact.

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Speaker 3: But I do feel like there was a change in him,

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Speaker 3: you know, as as there would have been. And I

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Speaker 3: think that any honest documentary about him has to has

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Speaker 3: to address in a serious way. You know what happened

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Speaker 3: in Colorado, where's that young lady's voice in all of this,

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Speaker 3: and how that story transformed his life. I was also

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Speaker 3: struck by the way the cultural culturally have, the way

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Speaker 3: the culture responded. He was on getting a Kid's Choice Award.

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Speaker 3: I believe it was like two weeks after this happened,

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Speaker 3: which is for him. I understand the pr of the

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Speaker 3: world we're in, but it was just it was just

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Speaker 3: it was what interesting to be this.

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Speaker 1: Space of Wow, that's just wild hearing you say that,

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Speaker 1: because I really I don't look at it that way.

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Speaker 1: But I know I am so biased. And I also

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Speaker 1: think there is this because he's passed away, people almost

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Speaker 1: hesitate to talk about that because you don't want to

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Speaker 1: speak ill of those who are not here. Of course,

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Speaker 1: do you remember the gil do we incorporate and I

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Speaker 1: don't want to give anybody. Okay, So the Gail King

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Speaker 1: of it all when she right after Kobe's death death,

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Speaker 1: she interviewed Lisa Leslie do you remember that? And she

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Speaker 1: pushed back and the question was fair. Her commentary, I

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Speaker 1: don't think was do you think Kobe? She questioned whether

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Speaker 1: or not he did what he was accused of in Colorado?

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Speaker 1: That's a fair question. That's just a question, do you

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Speaker 1: think it? And then and then when Lisa was like no,

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Speaker 1: adamantly not, Gail's pushback was, how would you know? That's

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Speaker 1: just not fair? He wouldn't be that way around you.

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Speaker 1: Then he and I That's what threw everybody off sent

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Speaker 1: the question because I feel as a journalist the question

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Speaker 1: is on the record, which is why I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think it's inbounds, which is why I'm glad you incorporated it.

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Speaker 1: But I am I am a believer, especially being in

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Speaker 1: sports for the majority of my life, that winning solves all.

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Speaker 1: Oh you have to say the quiet part out loud.

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Speaker 1: Oh Yeah, I don't care who you are. I don't

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Speaker 1: care what you do. I don't care what crimes you commit.

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Speaker 1: Are you bringing me joy in my sports and my

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Speaker 1: personal life? Whatever joy you're bringing me. We absolve athletes

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Speaker 1: like there is no tomorrow, and we see that happen.

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Speaker 3: We see him travel from the courtroom while a game

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Speaker 3: is playing, go on to the court and score a

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Speaker 3: buzzer beater. It is incredible, but it also speaks to

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Speaker 3: American culture, a culture it's not necessarily even sports or

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Speaker 3: Kobe relating to what you're saying, which is when you're

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Speaker 3: killing it, people willing, and so I do think that

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Speaker 3: that is worth I think that the discomfort that I

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Speaker 3: think we both have even talking about it now, it's

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Speaker 3: like it's awkward, and there's an awkward discomfort in talking

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Speaker 3: about it. But that's one of the reasons why I

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Speaker 3: was it. I want to make essentiainly, I want to

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Speaker 3: make people uncomfortable, but I want to make sure that

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Speaker 3: the work we do, it's it makes people think about

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Speaker 3: how we But you can believe you can come to

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Speaker 3: the same conclusion and love him at the end of it,

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Speaker 3: and that is all you.

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Speaker 1: And that is me. But we should, we should, we

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Speaker 1: should talk about it.

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Speaker 3: I got to talk openly about what happened, and I

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Speaker 3: would encourage everybody to do their own research, search into.

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Speaker 1: These transcripts available out there.

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Speaker 3: Everything we've reported in here is has been reported. The

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Speaker 3: audio you hear of Kobe talking about what happened those

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Speaker 3: are his words, and it's interesting to hear that, and

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Speaker 3: it was stuff that I just had not I kind

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Speaker 3: of had put it in an a vault for myself,

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Speaker 3: and so when we had the opportunity to dig deeper

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Speaker 3: into this story, you know, I wanted to make sure

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Speaker 3: we're giving an honest interpretation of someone's full life. But

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Speaker 3: I feel, I really do feel like it would have

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Speaker 3: been doing an injustice to him to ignore things, even

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Speaker 3: if they make us feel a bit uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's the beauty right of what we do, to

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Speaker 1: look at the world in a way in which and

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Speaker 1: ask questions and force people to think. I remember, because

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Speaker 1: it's not I support the Lakers. I've been a diehard

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Speaker 1: Laker fan since I was a kid. I didn't have

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Speaker 1: a choice, and I remember when this was happening. I

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Speaker 1: was living in Florida. I was a local news reporter,

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Speaker 1: and then even when I moved to LA working in

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Speaker 1: Sports Center, and I would always talk about how Kobe's

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Speaker 1: my favorite player without fail. Whenever I did that, there

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Speaker 1: would be a women's rights group saying, how could you

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Speaker 1: support this type of person. They're very adamant that they

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Speaker 1: didn't like Kobe, and I said, this is one of

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Speaker 1: these things I cannot explain to you, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is one of these things that feels very hypocritical.

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Speaker 1: Considering how I try to speak for women. I have

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Speaker 1: been very adamant about standing up for talk abou different

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Speaker 1: athletes who have had criminal records for for abusing women.

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Speaker 1: And here I am in the in this intersection, knowing

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Speaker 1: that someone can say everything that I'm saying about ex athlete,

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Speaker 1: they could say about Kobe Bryant. And I was so

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Speaker 1: in defense of Kobe Bryant. And there was no rhyme

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Speaker 1: or reason outside of the fact that I am a

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Speaker 1: fan and fanatically in love with the Lakers. And it

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Speaker 1: felt so uncomfortable. But I had to make peace with

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Speaker 1: that as I wear my Kobe shirt. I had to

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Speaker 1: make peace with that. And I know that people are

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Speaker 1: upset with that. That intersection is a real intersection of life.

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Speaker 3: That's everything. Yeah, that's nuanced, yes, And I think that's

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Speaker 3: something we try to do really well in the original

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Speaker 3: series at CNN. When you look at the stuff that

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Speaker 3: we have coming out this year, Luther, these are these

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Speaker 3: are nuances.

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Speaker 1: I'm waiting for Luthor.

435
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 3: He's out. It's it's it's these are nuances.

436
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: Wait, Luther is out? When did when did.

437
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 3: It come beyond maxim February? Okay, great Luther, all of them.

438
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: Okay, from skinny to big to in betweens. Because you

439
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: can't give me one luthog give it much like we're

440
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: discussing Kobe and the Kobe's Oh that.

441
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 3: What you're talking about, that awkward intersection. I have been there,

442
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 3: not only with this story, but with lots of stories,

443
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 3: and I think that that's a good place. There's somebody

444
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 3: wrong with being at that place, as long as you're

445
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 3: you're aware of it and you're asking those yourself, those

446
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 3: questions like he.

447
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: Just reveals who we are exactly, and really.

448
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: That his story the reason I love stories like his,

449
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 3: like Serena's, these are to me the most American stories.

450
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 3: They're complicated, the criminal case will be dropped.

451
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 4: He had to take a good, hard look at himself

452
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 4: and decide who am I really.

453
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 3: That's when Black Mombel was born.

454
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: Back in a moment, it's.

455
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 3: One of the most remarkable stories in sports history. The

456
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 3: last thing you think is someone's going to pass away.

457
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 3: The world actually stood still for.

458
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: A moment when you we all know how the story

459
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: ends in terms of what happened with Kobe? How do

460
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: you how do you view his death? Because during that time,

461
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: two things were happening, the pandemic with the world shut

462
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: down maybe a month or and some change.

463
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 3: It was right after because I remember I was like

464
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 3: March eleventh, I was like at work, which I would

465
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 3: not have been at at that band, But it was

466
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 3: like the last the one of the last big gatherings.

467
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 3: I believe was that it was like a national morning,

468
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 3: and then the pandemic really started to pick up right after.

469
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:54,719
Speaker 1: I believe, Yeah, you're right, Oh what will we What

470
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: will we learn about Kobe and GG and sadly the

471
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: other people who were in the helicopter that day? What

472
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: will we learn that we don't already know? How do

473
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: you talk about that?

474
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 3: I think what you learn and what I was struck

475
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 3: by is Kobe ended his career really at the top

476
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 3: as playing his greatest basketball is good. He scored like

477
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 3: sixty some odd points in his final game, and that

478
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 3: could easily have been a chapter that kind of closed.

479
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 3: But he he had this obsession with this idea of

480
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 3: being a storyteller, and I think when I first heard that,

481
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 3: I was like.

482
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, what does that mean?

483
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 3: You know? But he really was a story.

484
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: Dear basketball. That letter he put in the Players Tribune

485
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: was really beautiful, That's exactly.

486
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 3: And really you see, we get we have a whole

487
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 3: section and there's gonna be a digital extra that looks

488
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,959
Speaker 3: into deer basketball and some of the other written works

489
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 3: that he did. Yeah, this man loved to tell stories.

490
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 3: He was a real lover and believer of women's sports

491
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 3: in a way that I think that people know but

492
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: they don't.

493
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: He was ahead of the game, Like, really he was

494
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: ahead of the game. He was ahead of the game.

495
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 3: And I think you see you see a glimmer of

496
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 3: what his life may have been. And that's the part

497
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 3: at the end of the episode that I think is

498
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 3: just wrenching, is because you see him driving kind of

499
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 3: towards this bigger life.

500
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: Oh we do is so sad. I cry all the time, surrible.

501
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna cry on this interview. I promised myself,

502
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 1: I will ask you this. Do you feel like this

503
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: will provide I don't know a better insight to who

504
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryan is. He was such an enigma. Players to

505
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: this day will say I remember Rick Fox saying Kobe

506
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: We just want to We just want to know. You

507
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: need us because Kobe was very isolated, intentionally isolated, and

508
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: I think there are many reasons for that, but there

509
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: is such a mystery about who he was on and

510
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: off the court intentionally. It makes us want more. That's

511
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: why I feel like this SOCCU series is so right

512
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: on time, obviously, but so important because we want to

513
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: know all we can know. We want to know everything.

514
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: If he could have done a last dance, you know,

515
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: in the way in which Jordan did Last Dance, it

516
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: would be just as big, it would be just as revolutionary,

517
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: it would be it would be really defining because no

518
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: one knew, and no one to this day can really

519
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: say definitely what his relationship was with his mother, what

520
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: his relationship was with his wife, what his relationship really

521
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: was with his teammates, if he really even really liked

522
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: all of them that he had. Why did he and

523
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: Jack really break up?

524
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 3: I have so many questions, big questions, and those documentaries

525
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 3: they will be out at some point. People will tell

526
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 3: each one of those stories differently. I want to know

527
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 3: everything that you want to know. For what we didn't hear,

528
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 3: we tried to give you from CNN and a look

529
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 3: at who this man was and these critical moments of

530
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 3: his life as a young person. At somebody going through

531
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 3: one of the biggest news stories that I was brought

532
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 3: up with, that you kind of look back and rescrutinize

533
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 3: it and scrutinize it again in a different way, and

534
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 3: then somebody who what was their life beyond basketball? That's

535
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 3: what we tried to do. We tried to bring and

536
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 3: I think we succeeded in giving people information in parts

537
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 3: of his life that perhaps they didn't know. It's important

538
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 3: for me that people see these athletes, these public figures

539
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: and so on, outside of their profession as much as

540
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 3: we can, to see them as fullsome lawed human beings,

541
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 3: because that's what life is. There's a lot in Kobe's

542
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 3: life that you could look at and be like, this

543
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: makes me mad, Why what are you you like this?

544
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 3: Why didn't you do X, Y and Z? Ask those questions.

545
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 3: You know you're not going to get answers to all

546
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 3: of them, but we hope to give him a little

547
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 3: just I learned so much about him in here that

548
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,959
Speaker 3: I didn't know, and some of it had already been

549
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: out there, and we were able to kind of just

550
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 3: look back and for me, you know, like I'm on

551
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 3: TikTok Instagram reels. You go, you scroll up, you see

552
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 3: a Kobe trip, you know, little nuggative information or factoid

553
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 3: or a little inspirational thing like he's very and I

554
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 3: was it was nice to see beyond just this way.

555
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 3: We want to remember him and just try to see

556
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 3: this guy that was a kid at one point throwing

557
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 3: rocks off his bicycle in the middle of the Italian

558
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 3: country side. That's just it's just super cool. I think

559
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 3: he's amazing, And I think his family, his parents deserve

560
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 3: a lot of credit and worked really hard to bring

561
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 3: this guy where he was where he eventually, and I

562
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 3: think his wife has done an amazing job securing and

563
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 3: protecting his legacy beyond. And so I'm eager to see

564
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 3: these other works that will come out at some point

565
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 3: that delve into different parts of his life. But I

566
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: hope in the meantime people enjoy what we what we

567
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 3: offered them.

568
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: It's perfect, it's great. Haven't you seen It's amazing. I'm

569
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: gonna say it, I haven't seen it. It's already amazing.

570
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: Anyone who loves Kobe is going to love.

571
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 3: This and please one you are like, just text me, I'm.

572
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: I'm on a time because twenty seven forty seven, Yeah,

573
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: get it, I get it. I was like, okay, so then.

574
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 3: Why y'all do that?

575
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I needed a tight shot of No, it's going

576
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: to be amazing. I won't even be so granular. I

577
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: think it's I think it's important that these stories about

578
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: our legends that have unified us. To your point, when

579
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: he died, it was global. It was a global loss.

580
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: It wasn't a Los Angeles loss. Although living in the

581
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: city covering the story at the time, there was a

582
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: true darkness over the city. It felt eerily quiet. Yeah,

583
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: And every morning I'd get up and go to work

584
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: at Sports Center and I was at La Live, which

585
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: is across the street from what I like to still

586
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: call Staples, but some people like to call it Crypto,

587
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: and so I the people dropping their memorials.

588
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I had to be at work.

589
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: At four am or am my god, people were pulled

590
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: up in pork. I was like, oh, and it felt

591
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: very special because it was the city that he grew

592
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,479
Speaker 1: up in and we had watched him be a silly

593
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: young guy on the court to a real leader.

594
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 3: That thing about him is you I know. For me,

595
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 3: it's like you grow up with people.

596
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: We grew up with him.

597
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 3: I feel like you know them. I feel the same

598
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 3: way about Serena. When we did that, I felt like

599
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 3: I I have grown up with her and knew her.

600
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 3: With the braids and with people saying all things that

601
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 3: I watched her push back and I felt I really

602
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 3: felt a different type of connection with her. She's my

603
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: She's my Kobe, Like.

604
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: I'm, oh, really, I love her a lot too, though

605
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: I love her a lot my last thought, and then

606
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: I'm let you go. Isn't it interesting interesting that the

607
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: people that we admire most admire or and or like

608
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: or seem to be goats have such mystery to them.

609
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: There's so much mystery to them. There's mystery to Jordan's, Serena, Kobe,

610
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: Tom Brady. I'll go down there with Tiger Woods, like

611
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,239
Speaker 1: we don't know anything about them, but the fact that

612
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: what they show us and they give us that and

613
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: it's so intentional.

614
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 3: It's because it's it really does pour out onto whatever

615
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 3: the court. Serena shows you who she is. She is one.

616
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 4: Herself on the tennis, this ball and exactly I'm angry today,

617
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 4: ye gotta know. Yeah, And Kobe, I think black mom,

618
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 4: But that was him saying, I'm this is who I

619
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 4: am right now.

620
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 3: You're going to give it all to you, Tiger, all

621
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 3: of them. And so when it's off the court, we're

622
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 3: left our own devices, those journalists to figure.

623
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: Out, to figure it out and read it in between

624
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: the lines. Eric Johnson, Executive producer, Kobe The Making of

625
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: a Legend premiere's Saturday, January twenty fifth on CNN nine

626
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: pm Eastern Standard Time. Thank you so much, Eric, I

627
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: appreciate you, Thank you, thank you. Naked Sports written and

628
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: executive produced by me Kerry Champion, produced by Josh Vice Thomas,

629
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: sound design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. Associate producer Olubu

630
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: Sayle Shabby. Naked Sports is a part of the Black

631
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia