1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Also media, welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: Davis and once again it has been happening here as 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: protest encampments have sprung up in at least eighty college 4 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: campuses all across the country as Israel continues its genocide 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: of the Palestine people and is now currently bombing multiple 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: sides of Rafa. Last month, students at American universities began 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: protesting their university's ties to Israel and weapons manufacturers, calling 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: for divestment, as well as urging their institutions to join 9 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: in calls for ceasefire. After a militarized police raid at 10 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: the Humboldt protest utilizing a prison swat team, police departments 11 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: around the country began cracking down more harshly on the 12 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: protest encampments. The day after the Humboldt, one, NYPD raided 13 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: Columbia University and fired a gun inside Hamilton Hall while 14 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: trying to use their handgun as a flashlight. The Portland 15 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: Police Bureau quickly followed suit and cracked down at the 16 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: encampment at Portland State University and have since barricaded that library. 17 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: As the time of recording, around twenty five hundred arrests 18 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: have taken place at college protests all around the country. 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: Police have displayed incredible violence, sending people to the hospital 20 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: with broken ankles and concussions. In many cities, there's been 21 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: heavy use of pepper spray, pepperballs as well as tasers. 22 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: The protests have also faced violence from a mix of 23 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: far right agitators, zionist counter protesters, and racist frats that 24 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: have targeted the protest encampments with physical violence. Especially at UCLA. 25 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: We here it could happen here, are lucky enough to 26 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: have correspondence kind of based all around the country. So 27 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: I'm joined today by Mia Wong, James Stout, and Molly 28 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: Konger to discuss our experiences as people who have been 29 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: present at some of these encampments all across the country. 30 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to start by talking about Emory University here 31 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, Georgia. This is a weird one, and I 32 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: think I'll actually go into more depth in a future episode, 33 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: but this episode's going to kind of focus on discussions 34 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: and we're going to kind of compare our experiences. So 35 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: oddly enough, I think Emory was the first one to 36 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: actually face significant police repression. Tents went up on the 37 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: Emery Quad on April fifteenth, and that morning there was 38 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: a heavy police response from EMORYPD, APD and Georgia State Patrol. 39 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: They fired tasers, there was rubber bullets, pepper balls, and 40 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: over two dozen arrests. Students and others began to rally 41 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: later that afternoon to retake the quad. A few hundred 42 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: people did so, and a small occupation began inside the 43 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: Kendler School of Theology building. M REPD was pinned up 44 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: against this building. GSP arrived as reinforcements and people started 45 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: to flee as you know, you see GSP kind of 46 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: form this area. But people were able to calm some 47 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: of those other students down and regroup and actually hold 48 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: that position for a little while longer police began attacking students, 49 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: a small clash began, there was pepper balls. People continued 50 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: to kind of hold that ground in front of the building. 51 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: There was students also inside. As people try to you know, 52 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,799 Speaker 1: render aid to those who have been pepper bald, and 53 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: while maintaining this position in front of the building, more 54 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: and more police arrive, like a ridiculous number, and the 55 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: crowd eventually starts to slowly disperse as police just flood campus. 56 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: Police from all around the greater Atlanta area just flood 57 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: this very small section of Decatur, which is a small 58 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: suburb to the northeast of Atlanta or to the east 59 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: of Atlanta. I guess. Emory President Greg Fems said the 60 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: Thursday protest was concocted by outside entities, which is why 61 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: Emory PD, APD and GSP violently disrupted the protest because 62 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: it was caused by outside agitators. Line that New York 63 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: Mayor Eric Adams would then reiterate to justify the massive 64 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: crackdown at Columbia. So the next day we had five 65 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: undred people march around campus and then this little kind 66 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: of committee of Emory faculty and staff called it the 67 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: emvery Open Expression Committee, began to negotiate with the protest 68 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: and they quote unquote allowed the protest to march around 69 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: campus and this small subset of the group began to 70 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: occupy the Cox Hall food court, and police were ordered 71 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: to stay out of sight this whole day and a 72 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: few of the days after unless the Open Expression Committee 73 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: specifically called them in. And what was able to happen 74 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 1: is that this Open Expression Committee was able to wield 75 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: the threat of police as a deterrent from people taking 76 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: kind of more militant action or to actually set up 77 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: things that would hold down an encampment, like if tenths 78 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: were set up, this would result in this Open Expression 79 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: Committee to call in the police. So this was a 80 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: very successfully wielded threat. So as the night goes on 81 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: with the Open Xpression Committee does threaten to call police 82 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: on the Cox Food Hall protest, which scares a whole 83 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: bunch of these young teens early twenties out of the building. 84 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: A smaller group of around one hundred people remain on 85 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: the quad till midnight, police arrive, and then everyone disperses. 86 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: The next day kind of follows a similar pattern. Open 87 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: Expression and some student organizers over the course the next 88 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: few days actually start directing police to detain and criminally 89 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: trespass people wearing cafeas on suspicion of them having been 90 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: engaged in like doing graffiti, and really it just allows 91 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: police to target specific people that the Open Expression Committee 92 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: kind of just don't want on campus based on either 93 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: how they dress, how they're kind of walking, acting, behaving 94 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. And this pattern followed basically up 95 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: until the present. People would try to take buildings do 96 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: smaller protests, police would either be called or there would 97 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: be threats that they would be called. It would kind 98 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: of calm the crowd down, everyone would disperse. If ten's 99 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: got set up, that was seen as like a major 100 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: sign of escalation, which would result in police being called. 101 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: And it's kind of the small back and forth. And 102 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: eventually this just kind of led to the situation Emory 103 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: slowly dissolving, slowly fizzling out as the people who were 104 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: wanting to do stuff kind of got pushed more to 105 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: the side, got pushed out, more and more people became 106 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: again getting criminally trespassed, and the group of students at 107 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: Emory just did not want to risk a further engagement 108 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: with police after the first day. That's kind of led 109 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: to things slowly, slowly dissolving, and that's basically with the 110 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,239 Speaker 1: situation currently. Things have mostly kind of tapered off schools ending. 111 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure this will be a similar similar thing across 112 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: the country as the school season is ending, and these 113 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: protest encampments will slowly also just dissolve away as police 114 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: repression continues. Let's see, who should we move on to 115 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: the next little report? James James stout from you. You 116 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: went to U see San Diego. That's right. 117 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 2: I did both, both as a graduate student and then 118 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 2: again as an adjunct professor, and then again as a 119 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: journalist last week, which is what we're going to talk 120 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: about this time. So you see San Diego had It 121 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: was interesting. The encampment began on the first of May, 122 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 2: but s JP had posted this thing about their big 123 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 2: rally was going to be on the. 124 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: Third of May, on the Friday. Right. S JP is. 125 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 2: Students for Justice in Palestine. It's one of the groups 126 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 2: it's organized a lot of these protests across It depends 127 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: you know where you're at. You might have the Council 128 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 2: on American Islamic Relations, you might have the Muslim Student Association. 129 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: You might have both. But yeah, yeah, you're Jewish Fast 130 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: for Peace. Yeah yeah. 131 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 2: Very often they're they're collaborating, which is great. We love 132 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: to see collaboration. So what they did was they posted 133 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: that they were going to have a big rally on Friday, 134 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 2: and that, as it turned out, was like a fake out, 135 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: and they actually started their encampment on Wednesday. So they 136 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: distracted ADMIN with that Instagram post, which is pretty clever, 137 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: pretty funny and They began this encampment on Wednesday on 138 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 2: Library Walk, which is kind of right in the middle 139 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: of UCSD. If people have seen, you know, people will 140 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 2: be familiar with the UCSD guys le library from the 141 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: film Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, which played important. Yeah, 142 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 2: I can see the look of recognition on my colleagues faces. 143 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: But yeah, that's the only thing that's ever call that's 144 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: happened at UCSD. So they set up this encampment. It 145 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: wasn't huge, but it was certainly a serious presence, right, 146 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 2: and they didn't barricade it or sort of it make 147 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 2: it defensible. That was a conscious choice, right, And they 148 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: did set up a security system whereby they had student 149 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 2: security people controlling who entered and I guess left the 150 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 2: encampment if you really wanted to, you could. The cops 151 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 2: got in right, like it was a waste high vinyl offence. 152 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: But in theory, these people were controlling who went in 153 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,119 Speaker 2: and who went out. Some times these people were asking 154 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 2: people to sign up on a sheet. I think I 155 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: hope they stopped doing that because obviously that you're sort 156 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 2: of helping the cops make their prosecution case there. Over 157 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 2: the next five days, the encampment was extremely peaceful. Right. 158 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 2: There was a focus among this group on not giving 159 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: any provocation to police or to addmin to any reason 160 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 2: to evict them. So they had some lectures, some speeches, 161 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 2: they had some live music, they did some dancing, all 162 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 2: stuff that like in no way provocation or violent. On 163 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: the fifth of May, a large counter protest was organized. 164 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 2: Mostly it bought kind of like get off my law 165 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 2: and boomer types, but then also like some right wing 166 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 2: streamers Oreo Express or I guess the surviving half of 167 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 2: Oreo Express, Josh Fulfer was there. I think the guy 168 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 2: who was first responded to media, Housway or Joe Felix 169 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 2: was also there. These are right wing streamers that, sadly like, 170 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: if you live where I live, you have to be 171 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 2: familiar with where they do a lot of border harassment 172 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 2: to They were obviously trying to film and identify students, 173 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 2: so I guess this was on the evening of the fifth. 174 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 2: That evening, the Chancellor Costler sent around an email basically 175 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 2: saying that what the students were doing was prohibited, that 176 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: the tents were not included in freedom of speech, and 177 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 2: asking them to disband peacefully. The next morning at about 178 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 2: five or six in the morning. Literally only hundreds of 179 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 2: cops from several agencies. Right, the UCPD does not have 180 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 2: the footprint that we saw. There was California Highway Patrol, 181 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 2: San Diego Sheriff's Department, and UCPD all in full right 182 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 2: gear lined up opposite the encampment. They say that they 183 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 2: asked students to leave and that those who didn't were arrested, 184 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 2: and when they arrested, obviously like violence was used by 185 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 2: the police, as always is, the encampment was destroyed. Everything 186 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 2: that was there was tossed into a dumpster. Some stuff 187 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 2: was then recovered. I guess there's now a Lost and 188 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: Found people to recover there things like laptops, right, like 189 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 2: expensive personal items that were swept up. At that point, 190 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: people were arrested and then detained in the Price Center 191 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: at UCSD. The Price Center, if you've not been on campus, 192 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: is like a large shopping mall that also has some 193 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 2: lecture facilities. But it's where the Panda expresses on campus. 194 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: It's not trapped in with the Panda Express, which is 195 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: a dangerous situation. 196 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, pandac Express is not operational sadly more it's 197 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 2: a shame, but it's where they have their dining horn. 198 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 2: It's like the center of corporate operations on campus. It's 199 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: a very bleak place. So they're trapped in the price center. 200 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 2: The students around campus, those who are not in the 201 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 2: encampment then rallied to protect these students and tried to 202 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 2: block the police from loading them on buses and then 203 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 2: block the buses from leaving. And that's when we saw 204 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: the Sheriff's department using massive amounts of violence. Right our 205 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: Sheriff's department still carried just like big wooden sticks. They're 206 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 2: not like the black night sticks you know, with like 207 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 2: the right angled grip. 208 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: It's just a giant It's just a big wooden baton. 209 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the esthetic of our Sheriff's department's right gear 210 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 2: is consciously or unconsciously something that I associate with the 211 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 2: civil rights ear and the repression of the civil rights movement. 212 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: Perhaps that's a choice, I don't know. But that was 213 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 2: when the Sheriff's department started to become violent. That's when 214 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 2: they brutalized and arrested BIRS list had students. In total, 215 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 2: sixty five people are arrested. Protests then moved down to 216 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 2: the two jails, right, we have a different facility. There's 217 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 2: a men's jenneral at women's jail, and they tend to 218 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 2: they tend to incartrate trans people with the gender they're 219 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 2: assigned at birth. I've heard about lots of things that 220 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 2: happened in those jails that were pretty bad, but I 221 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 2: haven't been able to confirm them enough that I think 222 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 2: I'd be comfortable airing them. So people are released, lots 223 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 2: of them charged with several misdemeanors, trespassing, encroachment, being at 224 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 2: the scene of a riot, resisting arrest, things like that. Right, 225 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 2: two members of faculty were also arrested. Forty people were students, 226 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 2: and at the last time I checked, they hadn't confirmed 227 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: the status of the other twenty ish people. So that 228 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 2: happened on the sixth yesterday, which was of course the eighth. 229 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 2: There was a big march about a thousand students. It 230 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 2: looked like kind of both calling for the UC to 231 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: divest and calling for the UC to drop charges and 232 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 2: drop academic sanctions. So right now, all the people who 233 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 2: are arrested are facing interim suspension. They're facing a viction 234 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 2: from their student housing, which San Diego as we've spoken 235 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 2: about Brazilion times has an incredibly expensive housing market and 236 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 2: it's almost impossible to access affordable housing here. And in 237 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 2: some cases, you know, they're facing serious academic sanctions. It 238 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: could affect the rest of their academic careers. Student workers 239 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: who are arrested also now not being allowed to work 240 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 2: on campus. So one hundred and eighty three faculty sign 241 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 2: a letter asking the university to not do that. That 242 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 2: came out last night, and that's kind of where we're 243 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 2: at in terms of what's happened to these people. I 244 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 2: think it's probably worth noting that the U see Riverside 245 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 2: settled right that they negotiated a settlement. That's in so 246 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 2: Riverside is north and slightly east of here, east of 247 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 2: Los Angeles County. You see Riverside is. I don't know 248 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 2: in terms of student numbers how big it is, but 249 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 2: they they settled I think on the Wednesday, so it'd 250 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 2: be made May day, the Friday, made the third. I 251 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 2: was at the UCSD encampment that day and I heard 252 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 2: them announce it and there were a side settlement. I'm 253 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 2: just going to say it didn't achieve some of the 254 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 2: more radical goals of the student organizing movement not to 255 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 2: be divestment, to be an academic boycott. They did get 256 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 2: the university to publish its investments which are linked to 257 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 2: Israel at least, which is a step. I guess they've 258 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: got a task force. The university is going to be 259 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 2: very willing to grant you task forces and panels and 260 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: things which can turn your radical aims into a bureaucratic mess. Right, 261 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 2: And they got the university to look into removing subra 262 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: Hummas from its men use as well. 263 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: Get Yeah, the biggest concession was the Hummers, which isn't 264 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: isn't great? 265 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 3: Wait that was That wasn't a joke? I thought you 266 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 3: were joking. 267 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: No no, I'm not joking. No no, no, no, sober 268 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 2: Hummas was called out by name. They didn't I'm not 269 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 2: saying the real investment. Yeah yeah, no, no, they're not 270 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 2: investing from Sabrahama's Molly. They're looking into doing that in 271 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 2: conjunction with their acquisitions procedure. Yeah, so you know, it's 272 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 2: a huge dub. I don't want to undermine what these 273 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: people have done. Like's it's scary when the cops come 274 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 2: to get you. And I understand, but this is a 275 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 2: sort of visa concessions or university is going to give you. Right, 276 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 2: you might get a snack task force, and you might 277 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 2: get they're already publicly available investments listed in one place 278 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 2: on their website at UCSD. The administration claims that the 279 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 2: students were unwilling to negotiate. I wasn't able to ascertain 280 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: if what system they had, right, Like I was trying 281 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 2: to ask if they had delegates or representatives, who are 282 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 2: going to those being different things, right, who are going 283 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 2: to negotiate? I was enabled to get a clear answer 284 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: and that they did very clearly publish their demands right, 285 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 2: And the university doesn't seem to have proceeded to any 286 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: of them. So that more or less is where we're 287 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: at in Sandy. There are ongoing panels and press conferences. 288 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 2: I'm going to attend one, so it's going to be 289 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 2: one by faculty tomorrow on the ninth. The faculty have 290 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: also been organizing right in a group called Faculty for 291 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 2: Justice in Palestine, and they've been organizing. I think it 292 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 2: was very impressive that they like accepted student leadership and 293 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: didn't try and like, you know, come in and take 294 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 2: a vanguard role or tell everybody what to do. But 295 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 2: but there mostly to facilitate the student protest and protect it. 296 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 2: So they're having a press conference tomorrow, so things that's 297 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: definitely ongoing here. But that's kind of where we're at 298 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 2: as of today, which is the ninth of me. 299 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: We will be back in here about the happenings in 300 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: Chicago and I believe Richmond Charlotsville after this outbreak. Yeah 301 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: for sobra, I hope probably not Chockolahamas. That's the Chocolahamas 302 00:16:48,400 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: is a travesty, crime against humanity. All right, we are back. 303 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: I have a big bowl of non sobera chocolate hummus. Actually, 304 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: so fuck fuck all of you. 305 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the break Garrison got out that chickpeas and 306 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: a blenda is a really beautiful thing. 307 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: Let's hear from me about what's been happening in Chicago 308 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: where there it's been multiple, multiple of these protest occupations. 309 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's been four occupations so far in Chicago 310 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 4: that it's it's possible. I don't know. I'm actually kind 311 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 4: of surprised, Like the University Ofville, NOI hasn't, Like there 312 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 4: have been a few campuses that I thought would go 313 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 4: up that haven't. Yeah, So we're gonna talk about three 314 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 4: of them, because the other one I didn't get to. 315 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 4: We'll we'll we'll explain why I wasn't at the School 316 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 4: of the Art Institute one because that's a shit show. 317 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: Sixty eight arrests, Yeah, disaster. 318 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 4: We will get to that. So the first one I 319 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 4: was at was at Northwestern, And I think the other 320 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 4: thing that's important about these encampments is that they're really 321 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 4: really geographically spread out across the city. So Northwestern is 322 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 4: not in Chicago, it is in is it a like 323 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 4: is it a suburb called Evanston? Is a very rich suburb. Okay, 324 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 4: The other thing we should probably get across this, these 325 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 4: are the Chicago Campment's all started kind of late into 326 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 4: this process. They're not there's reasons for this that I 327 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,640 Speaker 4: can't get into, but they're all kind of late comers. 328 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 4: On April twenty fifth, Northwestern one starts, and it's a 329 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 4: really chill occupation for the most part. So there's like 330 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 4: a police raid on night one, but then the kids 331 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 4: just come back and put all the tents up again. 332 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 4: And then after that, like the Evanston Police Department is 333 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 4: a joke, right, Like they're not I mean they've probably 334 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 4: done terrible things, but like they're they're not They're not 335 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 4: like the police departments in the rest of the city, 336 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 4: who are like the guys you teach the CIA how 337 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 4: to torture people, right, Yeah, and so yeah, I wanted 338 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 4: to talk a bit about kind of the vibes of 339 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 4: it because it was it's a very like early occupation 340 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 4: kind of vibe. 341 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: Right. 342 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 4: It's I mean, like I walk in there's it's it's 343 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 4: a bunch of kids like sitting on tents doing homework. 344 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 4: People are sleeping, there's like people like eating meals. Everyone's 345 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 4: really happy. 346 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: Very similar to people just hanging out in the quatt 347 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: Emory and I'm sure many other places around the country. 348 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think in everything that that should 349 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 4: be mentioned is you know, so like obviously these are 350 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,479 Speaker 4: these are proto. These are camps insolidated with Palistin, right, 351 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,959 Speaker 4: so you're you're expecting an internationalistvent this one. Like I 352 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 4: walked in there and there is a woman on the 353 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 4: stage in the encampment, will I say stage, and there's 354 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 4: a woman using their sound equipment, which made you quieter too, 355 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 4: But was talking about the Zapatistas and this is the 356 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 4: thing you see over and over and over again. Right, 357 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,719 Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, these are about the encampus that I'm 358 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 4: at art. You know, obviously they're about Palestign. But there's 359 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 4: this real there's very kind of there's a deep internationalism 360 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 4: there that's very tangible and powerful. I mean, like you know, 361 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 4: I was walking through the tamp and I was I 362 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,479 Speaker 4: was like, you know, there are kids like reading on 363 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 4: the on the lawn and I'm like I'm like pointing out, like, oh, hey, 364 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 4: this is that's the copy of The Wretched of the 365 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 4: Earth that I have from college. Like you know, it's 366 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 4: all stuff like that. It was all very chill. It 367 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 4: like rained on us, so we spent much time like 368 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 4: waterproofing tents. I think the interesting things about this is 369 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 4: that there's a there's a really kind of wild mix 370 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 4: of people there. It's it's this it's this thing you 371 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 4: only really get in social movements that are like going 372 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 4: somewhere where, you know. I mean I was running into 373 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 4: people from groups like old school, like like I ran 374 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 4: to someone from Students for a Democratic Society, Like I 375 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 4: didn't even know that groups still existed, like I thought. 376 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 4: I think, well, so there there was a second round 377 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 4: of them in the two thousands, so I thought they 378 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 4: died after that, but apparently not. You know, so you 379 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 4: have these mix of people from like groups that everyone 380 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 4: thought was dead, right, Like, you know, there's a lot 381 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 4: of sort of very experienced, like student organizers. There's also 382 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 4: a lot of grad students, which is a dynamic. I 383 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 4: don't think it's talked about very much because it's not 384 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 4: It's not just like eighteen year olds. There are a 385 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 4: lot of people in these camps who have been doing 386 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 4: this for a very long time. And you know, so 387 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 4: you have those people, but you also have people who 388 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 4: just I mean, like I talked to people who this 389 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 4: was literally their first protest, right It's like the first 390 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 4: thing that ever hilly they'd ever come out to. And 391 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 4: you know, there was this very kind of there's this 392 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 4: very sort of camarader ReVibe. What there wasn't was a 393 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 4: functional democracy, and that's a very That's the other thing 394 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 4: about this encampment that was very different than the Chicago one, 395 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 4: which I'll be getting to in a second. It's like 396 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 4: they there is this sort of there was this group 397 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 4: that was negotiating with the administration, and no one could 398 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 4: really tell what they were doing. Like every once in 399 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 4: a while representative would come back from them and you'd 400 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 4: hear something. But in the meantime, everyone is sort of 401 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 4: running around based on rumors, trying to figure out what 402 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 4: these people are negotiating. And it turns out what they're 403 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 4: negotiating is an end to the protests, and basically the 404 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 4: students like, okay, So there's a complicated set of demands. 405 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 4: What actually happens is that all of the entire occupation 406 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 4: is taken down. After a week, it's completely gone. Now 407 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 4: there's nothing there. What they get from it was the 408 00:21:55,119 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 4: university is re establishing an advisory committee on Investment responsibil 409 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 4: They got like question there's Northwest supposed to answer questions 410 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 4: about holding some stakeholders which may be disclosure may not be. 411 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 4: And they got some stuff that like is real from 412 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 4: for like visiting like Palestinian faculty. But basically they didn't 413 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 4: get any of the goals of the encampment, right, there's 414 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 4: no investments. There's you know, a committee that can make 415 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 4: recommendations about the investment and we'll see if that even happens, 416 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 4: because that's supposed to be spun out back in the fall. 417 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 4: So you know, they take down the encampment. They get nothing, 418 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 4: they get no leverage, and nothing is you know, and 419 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 4: all of the sort of student negotiators and these negotiators 420 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 4: tend they you know, Okay, so there are also like 421 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 4: political splits in the camp right, It's kind of hard 422 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 4: to get a sense of them just from looking at it, 423 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 4: but you know, if you talk to enough people, you 424 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 4: can sort of get the sense of like what the 425 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 4: splits are. Right, and Northwestern was sort of split between 426 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 4: like the sort of liberal student negotiators who are from 427 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 4: a lot of like some of the sort of more 428 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 4: liberal student organizations, and the people who want to like 429 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 4: you know, they're sort of like Baximblist radicals and the 430 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 4: Maximus radicals get out maduvry because there's just not enough 431 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 4: of them, and so they take the encampment down. And 432 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 4: the people who were doing the negotiations had this whole 433 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 4: line by we're building power. This is just the beginning, 434 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 4: and there's nothing, there's been nothing else. 435 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: They're screwed. 436 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 4: They lost everything. Their negotiating power is gone. They got nothing. 437 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 4: So in the wake of this, the University of Chicago 438 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 4: Encampment starts up Vinaversit of Chicago complete other side of 439 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 4: the city, like Northwestern is in like the like the 440 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 4: fucking bougiest, like richest whitest of the like of like 441 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 4: the North side of Chicago, which is like whether rich 442 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 4: white people are except I mean, they're not even in Chicago, right, 443 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 4: They're they're they're literally like they are they are a 444 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 4: They're a suburb. The University of Chicago, on the other hand, 445 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 4: is smack dab in the middle of the South side 446 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 4: of Chicago. There's the Universe city bubble, and then around 447 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 4: the university this is like the heart, like the heart 448 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,400 Speaker 4: of black Chicago, right, very very different vibe. The other 449 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 4: thing that's important about this is so the University of 450 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 4: Chicago occupation starts in the context of the massive raids 451 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 4: in Colombia, the raid and Humboldt, and very importantly the 452 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 4: raids in UCLA, and both of both the sort of 453 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 4: brutal police raid and the like absolute horrowing mass fascist 454 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 4: attack on the barricades, where you know, you have people 455 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 4: getting beat up in the middle pipes, they're shooting. They're 456 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 4: shooting like Fourth of July ass fireworks, like directly into 457 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 4: into the people on the barricades. They are trying to 458 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 4: kill the protesters. They beat, They beat a bunch of 459 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 4: student journalists like half to death. And so University of 460 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 4: Chicago camp when when I get there, is right in 461 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 4: the middle of transforming from a kind of like Northwestern 462 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 4: style everyone's getting along like singing Kumbaya camp to like 463 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 4: an actual fighting camp. Because I get there and like 464 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 4: that day I get there at like nine, right three 465 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 4: hours from when I get there, they were scheduled to 466 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 4: be a giant rally of like right wing frats that 467 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 4: is going to go come and attack the encampment. So 468 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 4: the vibe is extremely different. It is a fighting camp. 469 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 4: Everyone is preparing to, like, you know, fight for their lives. 470 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 4: Everyone knows what happened at UCLA, and also everyone knows 471 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 4: what happened at Northwestern, and people are fucking pissed. People 472 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 4: are like, I mean, unbelievably angry that then you know, 473 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 4: then their view is the Northwestern camp sold everyone out, sure, 474 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 4: and so you know, I mean, And the other thing 475 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 4: about Chicago that was different from Northwestern is that U 476 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 4: Chicago had has functional general assemblies. So there are like 477 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 4: functional democratic meetings where everyone in the camp goes, Okay, 478 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 4: we're going to like figure out what we're going to 479 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 4: do and these meetings are people are not happy with, 480 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 4: you know, like they're not happy with what happened at 481 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 4: the Northwestern. They're also like really pissed off at the 482 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 4: third occupation, which was well, I mean, I guess I 483 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 4: think that Paul happened in the middle of there. But 484 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 4: the third occupation was the occupation at the School of 485 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 4: the Art Institute. The School of the Art Institute is 486 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 4: literally right in the heart of downtown Chicago, Like it 487 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 4: is across like it is like across the street from 488 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 4: Ballennium Park. It is like across the street from like 489 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 4: the Art Institute of Chicago. It is in like the 490 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 4: corporate center of Chicago. Sure, so they they they do. 491 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 4: They do an occupation right and inside of like like 492 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 4: I think I think they got seven hours in before 493 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 4: swat teams showed up. They arrest sixty of people. It 494 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 4: is a brutal raid. They're they're like, the cops are 495 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,919 Speaker 4: beating people with metal bars like it is. 496 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:38,239 Speaker 1: It is. 497 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:39,479 Speaker 4: It is fucking terrible. 498 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 5: It is. 499 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: It is a bunch of SWAT teams beating up art students. 500 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: Very special and harsh. To make sure it doesn't become 501 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: like a continued thing. 502 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because because then and this is the thing 503 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 4: about but both U Chicago and to Paul to less 504 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 4: tuge extent too. But U Chicago and Northwestern are on 505 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 4: basically like opposite extremes of the city right there. They're 506 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 4: not in the middle of the city, of the downtown 507 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 4: area that yeah, like the political league care about. 508 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: It's on the north side, on the south side. Yeah yeah. 509 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 4: School of the Artists, like this is literally the middle of Chicago, 510 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 4: and so they can like it's very clear orders are 511 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 4: coming down from above that this encampment can't be allowed 512 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 4: to stay, and so they get the ship beaten out 513 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 4: of them. And this is important for a few reasons. 514 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 4: One it kind of like it kind of heightens the 515 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 4: fear of police deppression. But the thing that it does 516 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 4: that's important is that this goes fucking this like completely 517 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 4: backfires on Brandon Johnson and you know, so sort of 518 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 4: the mayor of the political administration, because this is you know, 519 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 4: it turns out people are very very angry that a 520 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 4: bunch of swat teams just beat up a bunch of 521 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 4: art students with metal bars, right, And the consequence of 522 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 4: this is that Brandon Johnson like refuses to or at 523 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 4: least openly. What he's saying is that he won't use 524 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 4: the Chicago Police Department at at at you know, on 525 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 4: the University Chicago campus. University of Chicago has its own 526 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 4: police force as about one hundred and fifty officers. It's 527 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 4: sort of vaunted as like the largest police force in 528 00:27:58,040 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 4: like the largest private one of the largest private police 529 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 4: forces world. You know, they also shot a fucking kid 530 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 4: while I was at school there, so you know, I 531 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 4: have a like depatriot of them. But what kind of 532 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 4: ends up happening is so there's there's that big the 533 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 4: day I'm there, there's this big like confentration between protesters 534 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 4: and kind of protesters, and you know, the kids form. 535 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: A shield protesters and counter protesters. 536 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, so so like the the FRAT show up, 537 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 4: there's like a huge right wing media circus. But the 538 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 4: kids have a shield wall, and the shield wall fucking 539 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 4: holds and the counter protesters can't break it. They eventually 540 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 4: back off and they're separated by the cops. And from 541 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 4: there things get weird. The encampment gets cleared by a 542 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 4: raid that probably could have been stopped, you know, it 543 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 4: has they have one of these five am raids. 544 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 3: You can't stop the police. 545 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,239 Speaker 4: Well, okay, so the thing I say about this, though, 546 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 4: this is this isn't CPT, this is UCPD. They have 547 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 4: like forty total, Like the number of people they can 548 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 4: amass at one time is about forty. So like this, 549 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 4: this was the only occupation that like maybe like plausibly 550 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 4: could have actually beaten off the beaten off the police 551 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 4: attack because you know, if they only have forty people 552 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 4: and you have six hundred like that, that that that's 553 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 4: about the point at which it's like plugged. 554 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 3: It's unusual for cops to engage if they don't have 555 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 3: the numerical advantage. 556 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: That's odd. 557 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, But what happens is that the basically the 558 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 4: protesters through through through it, like there's a very very 559 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 4: convoluated process of this. But the protesters decide not to 560 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 4: defend the camp, so everyone it gets raided and they'll 561 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 4: and like no one has up getting arrested, but they 562 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 4: destroy the entire camp. And Okay, I guess there's one 563 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 4: thing that I I probably should have fit this in 564 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 4: better somewhere else. But something that's very interesting about both 565 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 4: of these encampments, and this has been true of Moost 566 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 4: of the encampments that I've I've seen is is who 567 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 4: is like the racial and gender composition of who's there, 568 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 4: because these are you know, and you could see this 569 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 4: like when you're when when the counter protesters are facing 570 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 4: off against the protesters, is the counter protesters they're like 571 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 4: exclusively white, like most of them are white frat ros, 572 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 4: white cis dudes usually yeah yeah. And then in the 573 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 4: camps it is basically like it is like non it's 574 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 4: non white people of all genders and like non sis 575 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 4: dued people of all races. Yeah, very very very very prominently. 576 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 4: And this this is something that I think is a 577 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 4: sign of how the sort of like American political alignment 578 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 4: has changed, and the kind the kinds of political alliances 579 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 4: that are kind of so normal now that we don't 580 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 4: even really think about them. But if you step back 581 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 4: for a second and look at what's actually happening, this 582 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 4: is this is the this is the actual political composition 583 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 4: of these protests. It's queer people and non white people 584 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 4: and obviously like people like me who are both. And 585 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 4: I think that's an important thing because you know, it's 586 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 4: it's a dynamic of these camps. It doesn't get talked 587 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 4: about en off but is the core. 588 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: Thing that's happening like politically, I agree that that was 589 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: the same that was the same demographic balance at Emory. 590 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: Let's take another break and we'll come back and hear 591 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: from Mollie and then kind of have a bit more 592 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: of an open discussion to close things out, comparing the 593 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: similarities and differences from our experiences at these these four 594 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: different protest encampments or different cities. I guess, all right, 595 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: we are back. Mollie. You saw some pretty bad police 596 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: violence at the camp in Charldsville, I believe right. 597 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 3: Yes. The encampment at the University of Virginia was cleared 598 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 3: on May fourth by Virginia State Police. It was not 599 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 3: a pretty site. So the students at the University of 600 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 3: Virginia set up an encampment on April thirtieth in the 601 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 3: afternoon of the thirtieth. They had announced ahead of time 602 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 3: that there will be programming during the day on May Day. 603 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 3: So this sudden set up the day prior was I 604 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 3: think a surprise to the university. When the students first 605 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 3: put their stuff down, they put up some tents. The 606 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 3: police chief of the University Police Force, Timothy Longo, showed 607 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 3: up immediately and said no tense tends to the red line. 608 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 3: Take the tents down. So that first night they took 609 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 3: the tents down, and so for three nights they slept 610 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 3: outside unsheltered because it was clear from the university that 611 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 3: the tents are going to be the problem. That's the 612 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 3: only issue that we have is the tents. You can 613 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 3: be here. You just can't put up the tents, and 614 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 3: you can't use amplified sound. You can't be too noisy. 615 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 3: The place where they'd set up was this patch of grass. 616 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 3: That's so if you're familiar with the University of Virginia, 617 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 3: there's the lawn. It's called the lawn. It's not the 618 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 3: only grass, but it's the special grass. It's the grass 619 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 3: between the lawn rooms and the rotunda. It's like a 620 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 3: long narrow They weren't on the lawn. I think that 621 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 3: would have been a much bigger problem for the university, 622 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 3: just because of the optics of it, and because students 623 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 3: live in the lawn rooms. So they were actually on 624 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 3: the other side of the rotunda, in this shady, grassy 625 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 3: area between the rotunda and the chapel, within kind of 626 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 3: spitting distance of that statue of Thomas Jefferson that the 627 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 3: Nazis famously surrounded in twenty seventeen, so that same sort 628 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 3: of area of the university. So for three nights they 629 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 3: were out there unsheltered. It was pretty quiet. It was 630 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 3: you know, a few dozen students. Most of the time 631 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 3: classes had just ended, so they were preparing for finals, 632 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 3: they were writing papers. I think some afternoons they had 633 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 3: tas come out and help people with their with their papers, 634 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 3: help them study. You know, it was chill. They were 635 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 3: just kind of out there vibing. And then on the 636 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 3: evening of the third they held a vigil for the 637 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 3: dead in Palestine. There was great turnout for that. A 638 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 3: lot of people came out, students, families, you know, there 639 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 3: were babies there, dogs, like it was it was a 640 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 3: safe place, right, It was a place where people felt 641 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 3: safe letting their toddlers kick a ball around like. It 642 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 3: was not a violent or embattled environment. There were baities 643 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 3: there and they held the vigil, and after the vigil 644 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 3: they had Shabbat dinner. But as the sun was going down, 645 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 3: it was starting to rain, so they put up a 646 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 3: pop up tent to cover the Shabbat dinner. You know, 647 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 3: the food that had been set out and it was 648 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 3: at that point that they began setting up the camping tents. 649 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 3: And you know, they've been told all along by the 650 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 3: police chief, you can't put tens up. You can't put 651 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 3: tense up. It's against the rules. That's when we're going 652 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 3: to have to intervene if you put the tense up. 653 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 3: But every UVA school policy is available on the school's website. 654 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 3: They have a policy database where you can, you know, 655 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 3: search by keyword. You can, you know, you can see 656 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 3: every official school policy. And the official school policy is 657 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 3: that tens are allowed. It's on the website. You can 658 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 3: have a tent. And so now this, you know, the 659 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 3: university is saying that this discrepancy as well. You know 660 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 3: that actually isn't a policy. It was a sort it's 661 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 3: guidance on the policy. But it is in the policy 662 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 3: database on the policy website where they keep the policies, 663 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 3: and it says guideline on it, and a guideline it's 664 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 3: a synonym for a policy. So the other I think 665 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 3: the lesson to take away here. You know, I'm not 666 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 3: going to Monday morning quarterback the student organizers. I was 667 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 3: privy to internal discussions. I don't think that's my role. 668 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 3: I think the takeaway here though, is that they're always 669 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 3: going to move the goalposts. The only protest the administration 670 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 3: will ever approve of is one that happened at least 671 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,240 Speaker 3: thirty years ago. Right, you have to be decades removed 672 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 3: from progress to see it as positive. They never like 673 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,320 Speaker 3: progress while it's happening. They never like protest while it 674 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 3: is happening. There's nothing you can do that will be allowed. Right, 675 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 3: because the entire time, the first three days, when the 676 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,879 Speaker 3: police were keeping their distance, they were always there. There 677 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 3: was always this sort of like needling back and forth 678 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 3: while you know, can you just can you adjust this? 679 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 3: Can you change this kind of behavior like you know 680 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 3: you're not breaking the rules yet, but just you know, 681 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 3: we're watching, be careful this constant needling. And so in 682 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,280 Speaker 3: the end on the fourth, when the Virginia State Police 683 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,320 Speaker 3: showed up, you know, up until that point, the idea 684 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 3: was well, the provocation was the tense. The problem was 685 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 3: the tents the police had to become because of the tents. 686 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 3: You know that the policy on the school's website changed 687 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 3: Saturday morning, like we have the you know, the cash 688 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 3: on the website. You can see when the PDF was altered. 689 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 3: It was that morning. So it's like, is it about 690 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 3: the tents? Did you change this policy as pretext for 691 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,359 Speaker 3: the police raid? Because now in the aftermath, since they 692 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 3: were caught out changing that policy immediately before the police 693 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 3: raid of the camp, they're saying, well, no, actually, actually 694 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 3: it wasn't about the tents. That's not really what this 695 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 3: is about. It's because they're saying now that you know, 696 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 3: four men in essentially a black block, right, So four 697 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,919 Speaker 3: men in black were carrying backpacks with helmets, were seen 698 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 3: in the area, and they're known to law enforcement. And 699 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 3: I'll be honest with you, I did not see these individuals. 700 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 3: But at the same time, who care? 701 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: Who care? 702 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 3: It's public property, right, this is a public university, you know, 703 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 3: this outside agitator narrative, and we had to beat and 704 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,879 Speaker 3: Pepper's Brady students because of these mysterious men. But at 705 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 3: the same time, you know, the entire time that the 706 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 3: students were in the encampment, they had faculty liaisons from 707 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 3: Faculty for Justice in Palestine, and the faculty liaison were not, 708 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 3: you know, negotiating, because students were clear that there was 709 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 3: no negotiation, right that, you know, they're not negotiating on 710 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 3: their demands. But that all communication between admin and the 711 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 3: police into the encampment came through these faculty liaisons, and 712 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 3: they were in constant open communication. And the faculty liaisms 713 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 3: they are saying, well, if there was someone dangerous here, 714 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 3: if the police had identified like a you know, an 715 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 3: actual danger in this space, they never communicated that to us, 716 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 3: right that before this raid happened. No one ever said 717 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 3: to the faculty liaison, someone here is dangerous, there's a 718 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 3: known criminal here, there's you know, this is why this 719 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 3: has That was never communicated. So I'm not I'm not 720 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 3: sure these you know, four mysterious individuals exist. I don't know. 721 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 3: I think that is a manufactured, you know, sort of 722 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 3: after the fact pretext. But in any case, on Saturday morning, 723 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,439 Speaker 3: the anniversary of the Kent State massacre, state police showed 724 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 3: up a lot of them all at once, and there was, 725 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 3: you know, the local police set up perimeter around the encampment. 726 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 3: And again, so it had been raining all night, it 727 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 3: was soaking wet. Like I showed up Saturday morning to 728 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 3: take some wet blankets home to wash them. Because things 729 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 3: seemed fine, Things were very calm. Again, there had been 730 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 3: babies there the day before it was very calm, and 731 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 3: so I thought, well, I'll wash their wet blankets and 732 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 3: socks and bring them back and then we can, you know, 733 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 3: they can regroup and move forward. And while I was 734 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 3: at home washing wet socks, I heard that the raid 735 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 3: was starting. And again, so you know, because it had 736 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 3: been raining, and it was a pretty small protest to 737 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 3: begin with, people are doing their finals. There were maybe 738 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 3: a few dozen people there, like a few dozen at most. 739 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,760 Speaker 3: But once the riot cops showed up, people start pouring 740 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 3: out of the libraries. Hundreds and hundreds of students come 741 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 3: to see what all the noise is about, right, they 742 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 3: come to see what the disturbance is about. The university 743 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 3: used the emergency alert system that texts students. It sends 744 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 3: texts and emails for emergencies, you know, things like a 745 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 3: fire or a tornado or a mass shooting. Right that 746 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 3: a lot of these twoudents have recent memory of a 747 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,320 Speaker 3: very serious shooting here that they got these texts for. 748 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 3: These text are for real emergencies. But they used the 749 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,320 Speaker 3: emergency alert system to tell students to avoid the area. 750 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,919 Speaker 3: So of course they poured into the area to see 751 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 3: what was happening, and so they set up a perimeter 752 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 3: around the camp so the people inside could not get 753 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 3: out and the people who came to see what was 754 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 3: happening could not get in, and a lie on riot 755 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 3: cops marched into the camp and just bludgeoned and pepper 756 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 3: sprayed at like point blank range. Pepper sprang them directly 757 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,280 Speaker 3: into their mouth, nose, and eyes. I think one student 758 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 3: was wearing goggles and they removed her goggles so they 759 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 3: could spray her directly in the eyes while she was 760 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 3: already prone on the ground. One woman was having a seizure, 761 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 3: but they didn't stop arresting her to let her seize 762 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 3: in peace, and they were just sort of dragging her 763 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:51,120 Speaker 3: limp body away. It was very nasty, and once they 764 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 3: made their leave twenty six arrests, they turned on the 765 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,280 Speaker 3: crowd that had gathered to watch, and they started pushing 766 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 3: this massive crowd of students out into the street. They 767 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 3: didn't close the street, like there was a dean on 768 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 3: scene who was watching this happen and sort of making 769 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 3: frantic phone calls to try and close the street that 770 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 3: the students were being pushed into, because it was an 771 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 3: open street with traffic and then the frat boys showed up, right, So, 772 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:14,799 Speaker 3: you know, students are coming out to see. Some of 773 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 3: them are joining the protests, some of them are just curious, 774 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 3: And all of a sudden, now there's an entire hillside 775 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 3: covered in frat boys. Some of them have Israeli flags, 776 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,959 Speaker 3: some of them have American flags. And there were times 777 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,839 Speaker 3: as that, you know, the police were you know, I'm 778 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 3: very short, I'm about five feet tall, so there were 779 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 3: times as the police were pushing towards us. I can't 780 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 3: actually see that because the person in front of me 781 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 3: is taller than me, and I would know the police 782 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 3: were starting to advance again because the frat boys would cheer. 783 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:41,919 Speaker 3: They would start cheering, and you know, at one point, 784 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 3: I'm standing next to this older professor. You know, I 785 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 3: don't want to call anybody elderly, right, but this was 786 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 3: this sort of a grandmotherly professor who'd been pepper sprayed 787 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,839 Speaker 3: and was you know, shouldered or shoulder with students, and 788 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 3: she looked over at those frat boys and she said, 789 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 3: I don't know how we're supposed to teach them. 790 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, like it. 791 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 3: I mean, I expect a cop to be a cop. 792 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 3: I've been pushed around by a cop before I'll survive. 793 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,240 Speaker 3: But I've never seen a cheering section for police violence before, 794 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:13,359 Speaker 3: and like. 795 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: I have a few times, and it's one of the 796 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: most disturbing feelings I've ever had, is when you have 797 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: police attacking people and there's a group of like twenty 798 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 1: to fifty to one hundred people on the other side 799 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: of the police cheering them on. It's it's one of 800 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: the most like like death worshiping moments in my life 801 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 1: that I've like felt like, it's. 802 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 3: Very ugly, very very ugly. 803 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, it reminds me of how like in It's not 804 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 2: the same, but like like in Napoleonic Area, for certain battles, 805 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 2: it became a thing to go and spectate and people 806 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,399 Speaker 2: would sit on hills and watch the like formations move 807 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 2: and literally have a picnic, right and have. 808 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: This is real? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 809 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,600 Speaker 2: They did it in Turkey and the Battle of Cabani too, 810 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,240 Speaker 2: like people they call it media Hill until the Turkish 811 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:05,279 Speaker 2: police take guests and BBC guys who were there, do. 812 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,760 Speaker 1: You know how do you know around numbers for arrests 813 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: or anything like that. 814 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 3: I believe there were twenty six arrests, the majority of 815 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 3: them students one was a professor, one was a reporter, 816 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 3: but a lot of students and grad students. And again, like, 817 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 3: I think it's important to talk about this idea of 818 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 3: the outside agitator, right because I don't want to get 819 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 3: blocked down and like, oh, you know, a third of 820 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 3: the arrests were not affiliated with the university. That doesn't 821 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 3: mean anything, right, Like, Charlottesville is a college town. Charlottesville 822 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 3: is UVA. UVA is Charlottesville is the largest employer in 823 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 3: the region. It is sort of the you know, the 824 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,240 Speaker 3: iconic focal point of the region. It's a public school. 825 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,360 Speaker 3: People attend sporting events there, They attend concerts that like 826 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 3: our largest local concert venue as a UVA property. You know, 827 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 3: I did attend UVA, and I sometimes speak at classes 828 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 3: at UBA, So like I have some sort of tangential 829 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,360 Speaker 3: affiliation with the university, but I don't have to justify 830 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,239 Speaker 3: my presence there, right. I mean, that's like saying you 831 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,800 Speaker 3: can't protest albit or boeing unless you purchase bomb systems 832 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:05,760 Speaker 3: or work there. 833 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, it's ridiculous. 834 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,400 Speaker 3: What this enormous institution does with its billions of my 835 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 3: tax dollars. Actually is my business. It is my business. 836 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,320 Speaker 3: And if you're going to beat teenagers in my backyard, 837 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 3: that is my business, right. 838 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like this is Yeah, the university is part 839 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,920 Speaker 2: of the community. They spend their entire like three hundred 840 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,840 Speaker 2: and sixty four days a year that that is their messaging. 841 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,400 Speaker 1: And yeah, let's as soon if the community shows up 842 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 1: for the university they change that. Let's say you have 843 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 1: like a brief discussion about I think one thing I'm 844 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: definitely hearing from from you, Mollie is like like the 845 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,759 Speaker 1: presence of tents is seen as like a massive like 846 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 1: sign of like escalation like this this is this is 847 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 1: there for some reason, that's where they decided to draw 848 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:49,719 Speaker 1: the line. It's like when tents are going up and 849 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,200 Speaker 1: that's what needs to be cracked. 850 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,479 Speaker 3: Down on, which makes no sense because like I said, 851 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 3: they'd been sleeping there for three days. Sure they're not 852 00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:58,360 Speaker 3: wanting to be very symbolic. 853 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very symbolic. Like I think if especially if 854 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,280 Speaker 1: you look at like the images from the Columbia Quad, 855 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: like it's it's a very symbolic thing of like tenses 856 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,760 Speaker 1: like we are we are like staking territory, like literally 857 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: I think like that that is has been a massive thing. 858 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,880 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting the universities that have and haven't 859 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:20,920 Speaker 1: had barricades set up like there was. There was no 860 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,120 Speaker 1: barricades at Emory. There was no really attempt to put 861 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,760 Speaker 1: barricades up. And you have like, you know, pretty pretty 862 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,960 Speaker 1: big barricades in Portland of course, and then like Humboldt 863 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,880 Speaker 1: being really the one that was like no, like you 864 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,800 Speaker 1: can like hold down a space for like a while 865 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: if you'd have like lots of barricades, we'd see that. 866 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,799 Speaker 1: We see that uh in l A and know the 867 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,120 Speaker 1: difference between the bear kids going up and the barricades 868 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,600 Speaker 1: not and how that that does kind of slow that's 869 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: just slow a police ory. That does slow some police response. 870 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:51,880 Speaker 1: And I think one of the one of the one 871 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,279 Speaker 1: of the dam dynamics we have there is like at 872 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,400 Speaker 1: least her Emory, right, we had the first day, people faced, 873 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: you know, a pretty sizable amount of police violence. You know, 874 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,280 Speaker 1: there was like twenty eight arrests, a lot of people 875 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: were assaulted by police, and for many people this was 876 00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,560 Speaker 1: their first protest. A lot of these people were too 877 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,279 Speaker 1: young to participate in twenty twenty, which is kind of 878 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 1: you know, odd looking back on it, but yeah, a 879 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,239 Speaker 1: lot of these people were quite young, and this is 880 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 1: their first experience of like police brutality in person. 881 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,840 Speaker 3: And like, what a first protest though, I mean, like 882 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 3: I'm trying to think back to like, you know, usually 883 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,439 Speaker 3: your first protest doesn't end like this. Sorry, my dogs 884 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,360 Speaker 3: are going crazy right now. But you know, I was 885 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:32,960 Speaker 3: thinking about this. 886 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 2: I was. 887 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:38,080 Speaker 3: It's just I think it's a a radicalizing and traumatizing 888 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,200 Speaker 3: first protest experience for a lot of young people. I 889 00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,840 Speaker 3: was talking to a young student. Want to give too 890 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,040 Speaker 3: much information about her, but she was quite young, right, 891 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,040 Speaker 3: It was, you know, one of her first protest experiences. 892 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 3: And she said when the cop approached her with something 893 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,920 Speaker 3: in his hand, she didn't know what it was, and 894 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 3: she couldn't understand what he was doing or what he 895 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 3: wanted from her. And it was until he raised the 896 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,319 Speaker 3: object above his head that she had this realization that 897 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,239 Speaker 3: he can hit me. Yeah, not only can he hit me, 898 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,960 Speaker 3: but he is going to hit me. That like, to 899 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,480 Speaker 3: have that realization in real time that you are not 900 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 3: safe in your body, that the state will carry out 901 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,960 Speaker 3: violence against you. To not have known that before and 902 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,359 Speaker 3: to find it out as it is happening, I think 903 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:24,000 Speaker 3: is truly horrifying. 904 00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 1: Well yeah, and so we have all these people who've 905 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,719 Speaker 1: experienced it now for the first time, and when they, 906 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: you know, return to the campus the next day, they 907 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: don't want to go through that traumatic event again, Like 908 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,279 Speaker 1: they don't want to. And so after we saw this 909 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 1: in a few cities, but we saw this even in Columbia. 910 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 1: But like after the first police response, how people behave 911 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,719 Speaker 1: afterwards on campus can be quite different because they really 912 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,160 Speaker 1: don't want that, and now admin is able to kind 913 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,279 Speaker 1: of use threat of police. It's a very effective to 914 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,560 Speaker 1: turn to be like, hey, if you keep things kind 915 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 1: of chill, no tense, nothing crazy. But if you just 916 00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,920 Speaker 1: hang out on the quad, that's it. Like that's fine, 917 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 1: But if you do anything else, we're gonna call in 918 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,280 Speaker 1: those guys again and they're gonna fuck you up even worse. 919 00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,799 Speaker 1: And like that is very effective and scaring people away 920 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,440 Speaker 1: from from doing anything. And I think a big thing 921 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,719 Speaker 1: to navigate here is like how how can you get 922 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 1: students to feel like empowered once again, to like actually 923 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,279 Speaker 1: be able to do stuff. There was this there's this 924 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 1: there's this one moment at emory where some like some 925 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: other like like more like you know, more militanty. I 926 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,399 Speaker 1: don't know their exact affiliation with the university. I don't care. 927 00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:30,759 Speaker 1: But some more it's some more like militant need more 928 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,400 Speaker 1: anarchistic people. Because it's Atlanta, we're like kind of like 929 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,799 Speaker 1: like shaming some of the students for not like doing 930 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,359 Speaker 1: more stuff. Like they got on the microphone and were 931 00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 1: like shaming them be like, hey, this this isn't a protest, 932 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,360 Speaker 1: You're just you're just hanging out, and like, I I 933 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,640 Speaker 1: get it, but also like what is that going to accomplish? 934 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:50,560 Speaker 1: I think I think shaming people for being scared of 935 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,759 Speaker 1: police is not effective. You need to you need to 936 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,359 Speaker 1: help them to feel empowered and that that's a very 937 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:56,480 Speaker 1: different thing to navigate. 938 00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,160 Speaker 3: And you can't expect you can't expect their first protest 939 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,160 Speaker 3: action to be all out militant, nor should you want 940 00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,520 Speaker 3: it to be, like and I sure. I think one 941 00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 3: of the things to remember is that what you know, 942 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,080 Speaker 3: what does success look like? That if you know, most 943 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,840 Speaker 3: of these university encampments aren't going to win divestment, right, 944 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,360 Speaker 3: they all have really similar demands and they include, you know, 945 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,759 Speaker 3: divestment of university funds, and most of them aren't going 946 00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,880 Speaker 3: to get that but I think you can still envision success. 947 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,880 Speaker 3: As you know, these are young people. They are learning 948 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,720 Speaker 3: to organize together, they're learning to create that space together, 949 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 3: they are coming together to talk about this issue, and 950 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,239 Speaker 3: I think that can be success. I don't think you 951 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,680 Speaker 3: have to bleed to have succeeded. 952 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,279 Speaker 1: No, totally, absolutely. I think just this being a learning 953 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 1: experience for people. And now you have a lot of 954 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,680 Speaker 1: both professors and students whose view of police will forever 955 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,279 Speaker 1: be different, which you know, in the long run it's 956 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,480 Speaker 1: probably I would view that as like a quote unquote 957 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,240 Speaker 1: good thing, even though it is you know, it's short 958 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,920 Speaker 1: term trauma and possibly long term trauma. But like you 959 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,080 Speaker 1: have a much more accurate view of how the world 960 00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: works now, especially for a lot of these like IVY 961 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,920 Speaker 1: kids who've never never thought of police as a threat before. 962 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,480 Speaker 3: Police is always like a helper, right, And a lot 963 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,400 Speaker 3: of these are like you know, good kids exactly, yeah. 964 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,040 Speaker 1: And and and learning that like there doesn't need to 965 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,200 Speaker 1: be provocation to entice a police response. That is that 966 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:16,920 Speaker 1: is not a that's not a real dynamic. 967 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,279 Speaker 3: I mean especially at EVA, right, Like this wasn't one 968 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,400 Speaker 3: of those encampments where there it had been prior clashes 969 00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,640 Speaker 3: or real escalation or any sort of hardening of barricades. 970 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:26,520 Speaker 1: No, they were. 971 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,799 Speaker 3: They were lying in their tents when the cops showed up. 972 00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:29,759 Speaker 1: Right. 973 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,680 Speaker 3: The lesson is that nothing you can do is acceptable, 974 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:34,960 Speaker 3: so you might as well do what you want. 975 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like keep your eyes. The other thing I 976 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:41,279 Speaker 2: wanted to mention was like victory looks like a number 977 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,560 Speaker 2: of different things in these protests, but like you should 978 00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,760 Speaker 2: focus on whatever that is. And like something I saw 979 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,440 Speaker 2: among faculty colleagues sometimes, like it was just like should 980 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,840 Speaker 2: we get arrested? Like sure, should should we choose to 981 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,239 Speaker 2: get arrested? Like and like, no, you should not choose 982 00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,360 Speaker 2: to get arrested, like you know, we always have if 983 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,680 Speaker 2: you can. Yeah, avoid it is not an end. It's 984 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:04,120 Speaker 2: not a. 985 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 1: Good strategic goal to get arrested on purpose. 986 00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is in DC where you get, 987 00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:10,520 Speaker 3: you know, a ticket and they let you go home. 988 00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:11,279 Speaker 1: Yeah. 989 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,319 Speaker 2: No, this will fuck up as I'm lucky if your 990 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,600 Speaker 2: tenured faculty will fuck up your life a lot less 991 00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,600 Speaker 2: than people in other social and economic circumstances, right. 992 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,799 Speaker 3: But even in the most privileged possible circumstance, Like it 993 00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:22,680 Speaker 3: fucking sucks. 994 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, you might be denied access to your medication, You 995 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,840 Speaker 2: might be confined in a cell with people who do 996 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,040 Speaker 2: not identify with the same gender as you. Right, the 997 00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 2: cops are going to be fucking mean to you. That's 998 00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:33,880 Speaker 2: what they do, Like they do violence to retect capital. 999 00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:35,280 Speaker 3: That's why we have a lot of people are getting 1000 00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,880 Speaker 3: permanent nerve damage from being left in flexi cups. Like 1001 00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,560 Speaker 3: even if even if your charges get dropped, like you 1002 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:41,799 Speaker 3: could suffer forever from this. 1003 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's you have no you know, it doesn't 1004 00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,319 Speaker 2: matter how good your dad lawyer is or whatever. 1005 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:48,359 Speaker 1: They're the cops. They're going to get away with it. 1006 00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,080 Speaker 2: But yeah, like when I think about the young people 1007 00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,799 Speaker 2: I was talking to people, and like when I think 1008 00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:55,520 Speaker 2: about twenty twenty, where I've talking. 1009 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,120 Speaker 1: To young people, I'm older and thirty seven. 1010 00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,560 Speaker 2: Like I think about my own, like, you know, growing 1011 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,359 Speaker 2: up as a little kid, Like there was the like 1012 00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,720 Speaker 2: the anti Sweatshow movement, which morphed into the G eight movement, 1013 00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:11,480 Speaker 2: which morphed into like Xapatista Solidarity, which morphed into the 1014 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,160 Speaker 2: Free Palestine movement and movement against the British National Party. 1015 00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,200 Speaker 2: And we got to like step up until we were 1016 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:21,560 Speaker 2: fighting Nazis, Right, folks, young people who are protesting now 1017 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,440 Speaker 2: who didn't participate in twenty twenty didn't get like this 1018 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:27,440 Speaker 2: was just like a baptism of fire. Like the people 1019 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,360 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty got to go out in twenty sixteen 1020 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,239 Speaker 2: for Donald Trump, right in twenty seventeen and wear the 1021 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,279 Speaker 2: little pink hats and walk around in the pink hats, 1022 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,560 Speaker 2: you know, and they got introduced to the cops and 1023 00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:37,880 Speaker 2: the fact that they are just going to fuck you 1024 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,600 Speaker 2: up because they want too slowly. But these people didn't. 1025 00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,319 Speaker 2: And I don't think we should blame them for being 1026 00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,600 Speaker 2: like none of us are, to be clear, but like folks, 1027 00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:47,399 Speaker 2: I've seen it too much on the internet, like don't 1028 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,080 Speaker 2: do that shit, like teach people to be stronger than 1029 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,759 Speaker 2: the state. Don't shame them for not already being there. 1030 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,840 Speaker 4: That's something that happened, Like I literally watched this like 1031 00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:02,040 Speaker 4: happen at the Chicago cant was people like getting ready 1032 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:07,080 Speaker 4: to have to fight off like these frapros and you know, 1033 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,640 Speaker 4: like that experience and you know, and this is something 1034 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,480 Speaker 4: I think is interesting about these protests. Two was like 1035 00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,560 Speaker 4: from UCLA, Like UCLA was like a pretty explicit attempt 1036 00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,839 Speaker 4: to try to use these like right wing like paramilitary 1037 00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:23,200 Speaker 4: people to knock out an encampment, and they couldn't do it. Like, 1038 00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,680 Speaker 4: they hurt a lot of people, right, like two hundred 1039 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,440 Speaker 4: people I think went to the hospital or like Leaster 1040 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:28,640 Speaker 4: treated by medics after it. 1041 00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:29,920 Speaker 1: Right, they hurt a lot of people. 1042 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,800 Speaker 4: It was really scary. But they couldn't break they couldn't 1043 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:34,719 Speaker 4: break the barricades. And that happened at Chicago too. It 1044 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,719 Speaker 4: was like they couldn't like it in the Chicago like 1045 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:41,880 Speaker 4: those those like they're they're on. But at nine o'clock 1046 00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:43,600 Speaker 4: in the morning on the day of that encampment, there 1047 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,360 Speaker 4: were no fucking barricades. It was just a bunch of 1048 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,360 Speaker 4: tents in a lawn, right, and in like three hours 1049 00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,719 Speaker 4: they set up a thing that you know still I 1050 00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:54,200 Speaker 4: mean they weren't still weren't really barricades. But like you 1051 00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,640 Speaker 4: got to watch these kids and you know, the people 1052 00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:03,400 Speaker 4: who were there, like you know, like realize that a 1053 00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 4: group of them can stand and fight and hold these people, 1054 00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,040 Speaker 4: and they and they did it. They fucking stood there, 1055 00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,160 Speaker 4: they stood their ground, they held them, they fought and 1056 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,319 Speaker 4: at the end of the day, the fucking fraproos ran 1057 00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:15,800 Speaker 4: away and it wasn't really intel. And then this is 1058 00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,040 Speaker 4: I think it's been a really interesting element of this 1059 00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,600 Speaker 4: is that like these these per military groups have been 1060 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:26,200 Speaker 4: just staggeringly unable to actually like beat a bunch of 1061 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,279 Speaker 4: protesters like in you know, in in in the sort 1062 00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,200 Speaker 4: of military sense of like who holds the field at 1063 00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,040 Speaker 4: the end of the fight. They can't do it, and 1064 00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:34,440 Speaker 4: only the cops have been able to. 1065 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,600 Speaker 1: And the other thing about that is, like you had 1066 00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:42,200 Speaker 1: you have a more legitimate way to fight off these 1067 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,280 Speaker 1: like non state actionsah yeah, right, whenever you there is 1068 00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,880 Speaker 1: because of the nature of the state's monopoly of legitimate 1069 00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:51,160 Speaker 1: of violence, fighting off the police can be a lot 1070 00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:55,280 Speaker 1: more tricky than fighting off these like frat boy groups 1071 00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,200 Speaker 1: like that. That is, that is a very different dynamic. 1072 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:01,600 Speaker 4: And then that was the process that like unfolded there. 1073 00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:02,960 Speaker 4: It was like a lot of people who were like, yeah, 1074 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,920 Speaker 4: we don't want to escalate, and it was like, well, okay, 1075 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,120 Speaker 4: so like several hundred people are going to show up. 1076 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,680 Speaker 4: We also happened to us the UCLA like it has 1077 00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,080 Speaker 4: to right, like you know, I mean like like you 1078 00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,239 Speaker 4: can't just keep doing your sort of like we're not 1079 00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:18,399 Speaker 4: gonna engage your counter protesters thing where there's two hundred 1080 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:19,600 Speaker 4: of these people who are going to try to beat 1081 00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:19,960 Speaker 4: the shit. 1082 00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:20,160 Speaker 1: Out of you. 1083 00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:22,640 Speaker 3: Right, there's I mean, there's choosing not to engage with 1084 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,240 Speaker 3: someone who just wants attention, and then there is self defense. 1085 00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:25,960 Speaker 3: I think those are. 1086 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:26,480 Speaker 4: Two different things. 1087 00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:27,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely need. 1088 00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,719 Speaker 3: Some like you don't you know, you don't give someone 1089 00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,120 Speaker 3: their viral video that they can put on YouTube or whatever, 1090 00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:33,680 Speaker 3: but if someone's going to beat you with a stick. 1091 00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:36,279 Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's like I'm not saying either of them 1092 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,160 Speaker 4: are like right or wrong. It's just like, yeah, like 1093 00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,760 Speaker 4: you can't. You can't use the same tactics. And being 1094 00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,600 Speaker 4: forced to defend yourself like had this real sort of 1095 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,359 Speaker 4: like impact on people and like I don't know, it's 1096 00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,920 Speaker 4: like I gotta see people just like understanding what you 1097 00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,520 Speaker 4: can do with the physical mass of a group of people. 1098 00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,520 Speaker 4: And I don't know, it was it was like it 1099 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,360 Speaker 4: was it was a really emotional experience for like a 1100 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,600 Speaker 4: lot of the people there, and it was really cool. 1101 00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,319 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think we it would be wrong just 1102 00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:11,520 Speaker 1: to like criticize these these students specifically for dropping the 1103 00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,560 Speaker 1: ball in various ways. I think the thing that we 1104 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:17,440 Speaker 1: can completely criticize and point to as a as a 1105 00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:22,000 Speaker 1: massive failure. Is everyone who has not been participating, how 1106 00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,520 Speaker 1: they have been viewing what's going on, and this is, 1107 00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:25,600 Speaker 1: this is, this is this will be the last thing 1108 00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:27,880 Speaker 1: I talk about, especially even even I just on like 1109 00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,200 Speaker 1: the media side and in this general discussion, like there's 1110 00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:34,640 Speaker 1: been such a such a singular focus on the campus 1111 00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,960 Speaker 1: encampment like itself, instead of like why the protests are 1112 00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,480 Speaker 1: happening in the first place, what's going on in Gaza 1113 00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:45,400 Speaker 1: and just instead just focusing on like, yeah, the actual 1114 00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,680 Speaker 1: the actual thing on campus, but but but not caring 1115 00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,680 Speaker 1: about why these protests are even happening, willfully ignoring why 1116 00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:57,040 Speaker 1: it's happening, framing all literally all of the campus protests 1117 00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:00,359 Speaker 1: as inherently anti semitic, as if that is the main driver, 1118 00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:05,160 Speaker 1: and ignoring ignoring the many instances for people who have 1119 00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,320 Speaker 1: expressed anti semitic things have been have been like removed 1120 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,440 Speaker 1: and pushed out of campus, which has happened in many places. 1121 00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,279 Speaker 1: But it's it's just it's just so lazy to totally 1122 00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,040 Speaker 1: like reject the reasoning for why these protests are happening. 1123 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:22,000 Speaker 1: The framing of trespassing as a form of violence, call 1124 00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:26,080 Speaker 1: calling these encampments violent as if as if being on 1125 00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:30,040 Speaker 1: campus is violent, and meanwhile never once mentioning the actual 1126 00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,840 Speaker 1: violence on display, which is almost solely at the hands 1127 00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,719 Speaker 1: of police and these other far right groups. Friend of 1128 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,319 Speaker 1: the Pod Cody Johnston had a had a very very 1129 00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:41,799 Speaker 1: good tweet quote, these people who I despise and never 1130 00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:46,080 Speaker 1: agree with, should protest the way I prefer unquote right. 1131 00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,160 Speaker 3: Don't don't debate tactics with people who don't share your goals. 1132 00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:54,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and again like these people who who who 1133 00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,719 Speaker 1: have like an ideological opposition to every single thing that 1134 00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:58,680 Speaker 1: these protests are staying for. 1135 00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:03,760 Speaker 3: People do this in the actual Bush administration. 1136 00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,759 Speaker 2: Just a wild fucking mental gymnastics to be like, it 1137 00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:08,560 Speaker 2: is illegal for you to have your tents here that 1138 00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,839 Speaker 2: is trespassed, Therefore we can violently displace you. Also, I 1139 00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,040 Speaker 2: stand with Israel, like exactly it's happening. 1140 00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,840 Speaker 3: Hed remind people of too is you know, you know, 1141 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,800 Speaker 3: the saying like, well, technically they broke the rules. Okay, Well, 1142 00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,360 Speaker 3: technically if you're going twenty over the speed limit, the 1143 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,320 Speaker 3: cop can book you into jail. Would it be a 1144 00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,960 Speaker 3: bizarre escalation of force for him to do that. Do 1145 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,600 Speaker 3: they normally do it? Now? They don't, Right So, just 1146 00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:35,280 Speaker 3: because just because the police can intervene in certain ways 1147 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,680 Speaker 3: doesn't mean it makes sense for them to do so. 1148 00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:41,320 Speaker 1: Technically, you're not supposed to bomb forty thousand civilians, right 1149 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,120 Speaker 1: So I think that's really weapons. 1150 00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,520 Speaker 4: Are illegal under under the Lahy Act, And it doesn't 1151 00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:48,600 Speaker 4: matter for shit. 1152 00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:52,760 Speaker 3: Because the rules, you know, the police are only only 1153 00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:53,800 Speaker 3: powerful to punish you. 1154 00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,520 Speaker 1: The fact that there's more moral outrage across the country 1155 00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:02,360 Speaker 1: or students protesting a genocide than there is for forty 1156 00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:06,320 Speaker 1: thousand civilians being murdered, is just looking at a deep 1157 00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:08,960 Speaker 1: hole at the conscience of this country. 1158 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:09,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1159 00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:11,800 Speaker 4: Also, the thing I will say about that is if 1160 00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:14,439 Speaker 4: you look at the polling numbers on this, like, yeah, 1161 00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,600 Speaker 4: there's like like forty seven ish percent support for like 1162 00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:21,040 Speaker 4: banning like protesters on campus. However, when you actually look 1163 00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,680 Speaker 4: at the numbers, like especially if you look at numbers 1164 00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:25,280 Speaker 4: of my cultures, we look at the numbers of people 1165 00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:30,240 Speaker 4: in general who now like who now support like ceasing 1166 00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,680 Speaker 4: like ceasing sending arms to Israel, it's been interesting, so. 1167 00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:34,960 Speaker 1: Like they have been work totally. It's just that the 1168 00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,960 Speaker 1: people who control this country is a different demographic than 1169 00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,840 Speaker 1: all the young people who are potesting on campus, right, 1170 00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,160 Speaker 1: which is what we're looking at. And I think it's 1171 00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:46,200 Speaker 1: also important to remind you that almost every single campus 1172 00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:50,840 Speaker 1: protest historically has been completely vindicated over time because they're 1173 00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:55,600 Speaker 1: obviously correct, and if you deny that, who are you fooling? Anyway? 1174 00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,200 Speaker 1: I think that this episode's already pretty long, but I 1175 00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,000 Speaker 1: was happy to hear a collection of of our four 1176 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:02,880 Speaker 1: different accounts from four different places. 1177 00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:04,880 Speaker 3: Oh, I do just want to say really quick before 1178 00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:06,880 Speaker 3: we wrap this up. To everyone who says these students 1179 00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,600 Speaker 3: are too young to know what they are protesting, they 1180 00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:14,080 Speaker 3: couldn't possibly understand what they are talking about. Fred Hampton 1181 00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:15,960 Speaker 3: was twenty one. 1182 00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:20,680 Speaker 1: People forget how how young MLK was when he started doing. 1183 00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:24,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're young enough for fucking Israel to kill them, right, absolutely, 1184 00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,080 Speaker 2: there are no universities in Guys or anymore. Like, it's 1185 00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,240 Speaker 2: just it's ridiculous. They're also young enough to join the 1186 00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,080 Speaker 2: idea for any other military and go and kill people. 1187 00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:32,720 Speaker 2: It's ridiculous. 1188 00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,880 Speaker 3: Argument, Like, you don't have to go there and talk 1189 00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,520 Speaker 3: to these students. They know exactly what they're protesting. They 1190 00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:39,520 Speaker 3: know exactly what they're talking about. A lot of them 1191 00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:42,960 Speaker 3: are actually fairly well versed on the minutia of what 1192 00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,440 Speaker 3: divestment means and what that looks like, and what the 1193 00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,520 Speaker 3: fiduciary duties are. Like, they're not stupid. They know what 1194 00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:49,280 Speaker 3: they're talking about. 1195 00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:53,040 Speaker 1: All these dumb college educated youngsters, all. 1196 00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:55,000 Speaker 3: These eighty it's at Columbia. 1197 00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,200 Speaker 1: Anyways, fucking nerds, you Chicago. 1198 00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,000 Speaker 2: It's like, we don't talk about Palestine enough in classy. 1199 01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:01,760 Speaker 2: Like I teach a lot of world history classes. It's 1200 01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:03,880 Speaker 2: certainly not on the little boxes you have to take. 1201 01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:05,760 Speaker 2: And some people came to the encampments to learn, and 1202 01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,920 Speaker 2: that's fucking great too. And some people taught people and 1203 01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:12,000 Speaker 2: that's great too. Like it's a place where a lot 1204 01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,840 Speaker 2: of learning happened and people became more informed over time. 1205 01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,520 Speaker 2: You don't need to have a PhD or masters in 1206 01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,960 Speaker 2: an area to understand that bombing children is bad and 1207 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,360 Speaker 2: wanted to stop. We had a world war about this, 1208 01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,000 Speaker 2: like genocides are bad. So this will be a topic 1209 01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,200 Speaker 2: we continue to cover on the show over the course. 1210 01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,919 Speaker 2: At the summer, we'll have I'm planning a deep dive 1211 01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,400 Speaker 2: about what happened at Emory Margaret has an upcoming episode 1212 01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,840 Speaker 2: about how people who were engaged in the campus protests 1213 01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,160 Speaker 2: can stay involved over the summer, and of course we 1214 01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:42,400 Speaker 2: will continue to talk about what's been happening in Gaza. 1215 01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:45,000 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, solid Air to everyone who's out there. 1216 01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:46,360 Speaker 3: Flush your eyes with water. 1217 01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:48,080 Speaker 1: Flush your eyes with water again. 1218 01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:58,320 Speaker 5: Learned It Could Happen here as a production of cool 1219 01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:01,320 Speaker 5: Zone Media. For more podcast to cool Zone Media, visit 1220 01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,040 Speaker 5: our website coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on 1221 01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,760 Speaker 5: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 1222 01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,120 Speaker 5: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 1223 01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:14,240 Speaker 5: monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,