1
00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:06,520
Speaker 1: Welcome to brain Stuff production of I Heart Radio. Hey

2
00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,600
Speaker 1: brain Stuff Lauren bog Obam Here. Fresh tomatoes pile high

3
00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,200
Speaker 1: and grocery store produce sections twelve months out of the year,

4
00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,160
Speaker 1: but for tomato aficionados they're only good for a short season,

5
00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,040
Speaker 1: or maybe not ever. Grocery store tomatoes have long had

6
00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:26,320
Speaker 1: a reputation for being bland, meally, too firm, tasteless, and dry.

7
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,080
Speaker 1: There are scientists working to save grocery store tomatoes, and

8
00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,720
Speaker 1: not just by encouraging people to garden or shop at

9
00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,760
Speaker 1: farmers markets. Through science and honestly good grocery store tomato

10
00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,159
Speaker 1: maybe on the market within five years. We spoke with

11
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,920
Speaker 1: Harry Clee, professor of horticultural science at the University of Florida,

12
00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,600
Speaker 1: who's putting his passion for tomatoes into the long work

13
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,920
Speaker 1: of developing a better tomato for the mass market. He said,

14
00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,800
Speaker 1: we're not going to consider our program of success until

15
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,200
Speaker 1: all grocery store tomatoes taste good. According to Clee, the

16
00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,160
Speaker 1: number one complaint about produce in America is the favor

17
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 1: of grocery store tomatoes. It's a problem that's been around

18
00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,160
Speaker 1: for decades. Clever members in n seven essay in the

19
00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,800
Speaker 1: New Yorker about how hard it is to find truly ripe,

20
00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:14,039
Speaker 1: fresh tomatoes. So how did tomatoes end up tasting so blah?

21
00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,360
Speaker 1: The problem lies in the entire market chain. Clip points out.

22
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,600
Speaker 1: Farmers aren't paid on flavor. They're paid on pounds of

23
00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,200
Speaker 1: tomatoes they put in a box. Growers will tell you

24
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,920
Speaker 1: they can't control flavor. What the market values motivates growers

25
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,440
Speaker 1: to prioritize fast growth, high yields, disease resistance, and a

26
00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,080
Speaker 1: long shelf life. Breeders have been developing tomatoes in response

27
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,240
Speaker 1: to those qualities that growers are looking for. Tomatoes don't

28
00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,080
Speaker 1: have to taste good for any of that to happen.

29
00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,920
Speaker 1: Cli pointed out that the loss of flavor isn't intentional

30
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,120
Speaker 1: on anyone's part. It's just a side effect of the

31
00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:50,760
Speaker 1: neglect of attention to flavor. He compares it to a symphony.

32
00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,880
Speaker 1: If one instrument is missing, you probably wouldn't notice. If

33
00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,040
Speaker 1: two or three instruments bow out, and experienced musician might notice.

34
00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,880
Speaker 1: But if one by one instruments leave the orchestra, eventually

35
00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,800
Speaker 1: you'll notice something's missing. And in the case of fruit

36
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,960
Speaker 1: like tomatoes, well, in Klee's words, flavor over fifty years

37
00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,280
Speaker 1: has gone to hell. The growers who do get paid

38
00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,960
Speaker 1: on flavor focus on local sales to customers who live

39
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,720
Speaker 1: nearby and provide repeat business both home cooks and restaurants.

40
00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,240
Speaker 1: Those are the growers who can pick tomatoes once they've

41
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 1: ripened on the vine, and they don't have to ship

42
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,160
Speaker 1: them far and risk damage. We also spoke with Julie Dawson,

43
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,880
Speaker 1: a faculty member at the University of Wisconsin Madison, who

44
00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,720
Speaker 1: does tomato variety trials, including varieties from a number of

45
00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,360
Speaker 1: different public and private sector breeders. Some varieties of the

46
00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,000
Speaker 1: trials come from Seed Savers Exchange, an organization that's devoted

47
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,880
Speaker 1: to preserving America's diversity and food and garden plants by collecting, sharing,

48
00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 1: and saving seeds and by encouraging people to grow them.

49
00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,120
Speaker 1: She said, we hope our trials help breeders develop varieties

50
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,240
Speaker 1: that have the flavor that make people want to buy

51
00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,280
Speaker 1: and eat more. She explained that flavor can get bread

52
00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,839
Speaker 1: out in any number of unexpected ways. For example, there's

53
00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 1: a gene that producers want because it makes tomatoes ripen

54
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,240
Speaker 1: uniformly across the whole fruit all at once, but it

55
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,880
Speaker 1: also changes the way sugars accumulate in the fruit, but

56
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,440
Speaker 1: she also said the bigger part of why they don't

57
00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,799
Speaker 1: taste good is due to how people manage them, such

58
00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,240
Speaker 1: as picking them green. A lot of the ripening on

59
00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,040
Speaker 1: the plant creates sugars and volatile compounds that make the

60
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,200
Speaker 1: tomatoes taste good. They're easier to ship when they're under ripe,

61
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,400
Speaker 1: but they will never develop all of those flavors, and

62
00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,720
Speaker 1: ripening tomatoes commercially with ethylene gas is no substitute for

63
00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,680
Speaker 1: the work nature does on the vine. Dawson said, it

64
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,480
Speaker 1: just turns them red. You don't get all the volatiles

65
00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,040
Speaker 1: and secondary compounds that make it smell like a tomato

66
00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 1: and taste good. So now clear and numerous horticultural scientists

67
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 1: are working to bring flavor back, but growers and supermarkets

68
00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,440
Speaker 1: still need the qualities of a modern tomato. Klie said

69
00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,240
Speaker 1: breeding is now a balancing act because growers still want

70
00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,760
Speaker 1: a good yield and disease resistance. We have to keep

71
00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,600
Speaker 1: key pieces in. At the University of Florida, the Horticultural

72
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,360
Speaker 1: Science Department is growing over a hundred varieties of tomatoes

73
00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,680
Speaker 1: and uses a tasting panel of over a hundred people

74
00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,640
Speaker 1: to help identify what makes it tomato taste good. They've

75
00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:08,840
Speaker 1: come up with a list of compounds that impact flavor.

76
00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,760
Speaker 1: The tasting panel helps them identify what people like, and

77
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,960
Speaker 1: then they determine how much of each compound is in

78
00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,039
Speaker 1: the tomatoes that get approval from the panel. The process

79
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,800
Speaker 1: produces a scientific recipe for a great tomato. Klie said,

80
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,400
Speaker 1: DNA sequencing has become cheap, so if sequenced the genomes

81
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,400
Speaker 1: of five hundred different varieties of tomatoes, they can identify

82
00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,480
Speaker 1: jeans that make good tasting modern tomatoes, trace where those

83
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,080
Speaker 1: genes came from, and bring them back. It creates a

84
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,240
Speaker 1: breeding roadmap. Right now, Clean his team are working on

85
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,520
Speaker 1: nine different genes to put into modern tomatoes, creating fruit

86
00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,240
Speaker 1: with the yield, disease resistance, and shelf life that growers

87
00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 1: and markets want, but the flavor the tomato lovers crave.

88
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,760
Speaker 1: But the challenge with creating better fruit and vegetables is

89
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,800
Speaker 1: that it takes time. In Florida, Clean his team can

90
00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,920
Speaker 1: only grow two generations of tomatoes a year, but better

91
00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,320
Speaker 1: tomatoes are on the horizon. Kali says tasting panels in

92
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,839
Speaker 1: summer of twenty nineteen will help them finalize a tomato

93
00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,560
Speaker 1: that's got it all. Once that's done, the challenge is

94
00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,200
Speaker 1: getting growers to take a chance on planting and selling them,

95
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,719
Speaker 1: and growers tend to adopt new plants conservatively, but the

96
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,479
Speaker 1: university is working with several commercial seed companies that want

97
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,520
Speaker 1: to be the first in the market with good tomatoes.

98
00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,679
Speaker 1: Consumers have a role to play and getting better tomatoes

99
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,560
Speaker 1: to market to buy them, Kali said. Some people are

100
00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,000
Speaker 1: willing to pay more for great flavor, but most people

101
00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,440
Speaker 1: are price sensitive. If you pay little, you get what

102
00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,640
Speaker 1: you pay for. People need to step up and pay

103
00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,039
Speaker 1: for better tomatoes. If you've got a garden plot and

104
00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:34,760
Speaker 1: you can't wait for some of the tomatoes developed at

105
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,039
Speaker 1: the University of Florida, you can get seeds that aren't

106
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,480
Speaker 1: on the market yet. You can donate ten dollars towards

107
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,479
Speaker 1: cles Genetic Tomato Research to receive packets of three varieties.

108
00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,920
Speaker 1: Search online for the Clear Garden gem web page. That's

109
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,720
Speaker 1: k l e E. If you grow them, they would

110
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:56,000
Speaker 1: love to hear how they perform in your garden. Today's

111
00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,560
Speaker 1: episode was written by Sean Chavis and produced by Tyler Clay.

112
00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,479
Speaker 1: Brain Stuff is the production I Heart radio's How Stuff Works.

113
00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:03,599
Speaker 1: For more on this and lots of other tasty topics,

114
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,320
Speaker 1: visit our home planet, how stuff Works dot com and

115
00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,440
Speaker 1: for more podcasts. For my heart Radio, visit the I

116
00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,039
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

117
00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:11,799
Speaker 1: your favorite shows,