1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:01,200 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 2: My great Anne was a music teacher in Upper Montclair, 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 2: New Jersey, and she built her own little studio and 4 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 2: I have some incredible photographs. She had every instrument in 5 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 2: the world in it. So for me being musical from 6 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 2: the get go, going to her studio where there were 7 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 2: four pianos and xylophones and drums and cla and just 8 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 2: everything you could imagine, was like heaven. 9 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 3: I'm buzsnight and welcome to the Take in a Walk Podcast. 10 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 3: Now today we are joined by quite a figure. His 11 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 3: name is Jim Keller. He's an American musician whose four 12 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 3: decade career spands an incredible range of musical territories. He 13 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 3: co founded Tommy two Tone Remember eight, six, seven, five, 14 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 3: three oh nine, Jenny That was embedded in our brain 15 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 3: and still is for many years. Since nineteen ninety two, 16 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 3: he's worked closely with the renowned composer Philip Glass. He 17 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 3: founded Saint Rose Music, a publishing and management company representing 18 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 3: quite a roster including Tom Waits and Robbie Shankar, among others. 19 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 3: And today we're excited to talk about his forthcoming album 20 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 3: and his remarkable journey through the music business. I'm so 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 3: honored to have Jim Keller on the Take on a 22 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 3: Walk podcast. 23 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 4: Welcome Jim, nice to be here. 24 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 3: How's that cup of joe? 25 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 4: First of all, it's good. 26 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: It's a little tepid, it's been sitting out here for 27 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: a little while, but but it still tastes good. 28 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 3: What's your flavor of choice? 29 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: Well, I'm a I'm kind of a whimp when it 30 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 2: comes to caffeine, So I drink just a tiny bit 31 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: of real coffee and mdcafine. So and I have a 32 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: local guy who for years has been grinding it for 33 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 2: me in Brooklyn, So that's where I go. 34 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, you gotta be careful with the beans, that's right. Yeah. 35 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 3: So we're going to get into talking about a lot 36 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: of things, including the great new music end of the world. 37 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 3: But I like to start off the podcas casts with 38 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 3: this little icebreaking question. If if you could take a 39 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 3: walk with someone Jim, living or dead, who would you 40 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 3: take a walk with? Then where would you take that 41 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 3: walk with him? 42 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 2: Well, my instant thought was my dad, who was a 43 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 2: wonderful guy, and it would be in Vermont, which is 44 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: where we spent an awful lot of our time. And 45 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 2: he built the house after the war, and he was 46 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: you know, he didn't go to college, but he had 47 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 2: an incredible curiosity and read a ton and he just 48 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: knew a lot about everything about nature and science and history, 49 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 2: and so, you know, I was very fortunate to grow 50 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 2: up with someone that had that well rounded, you know, 51 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 2: and curiosity is such a key word, you know, as 52 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 2: people that are really curious, and so that would be 53 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: my thought. 54 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 3: So did you get this incredible spirit of renaissance and 55 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 3: reinvention for your dad? 56 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: Well, I'm not exactly sure what you're referred to, but 57 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 2: reinvention of myself. 58 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 3: Or i'd say, so, yeah, for where your career has 59 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 3: taken us. We're going to talk about that. So I 60 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 3: was just curious if you had any insight where this 61 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 3: came from. 62 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think because I mentioned my father 63 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 2: who did not go to college. I did not go 64 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: to college. I didn't even apply to college. I graduated 65 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 2: from high school in nineteen seventy two, and there was 66 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: a little blip in there because I was the first 67 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 2: class that wasn't affected by the draft. If I was 68 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: a year older, I would have gone to college. And 69 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 2: so I kind of fell into this little spot in 70 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: the late kind of hippie thing, you know, counterculture period. 71 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: But so you know, he paved his own path. And 72 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 2: I think to a certain extent, I was given the 73 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 2: rope to make mistakes. And I think that's a lot 74 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: of it is that that my dad gave me the 75 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: rope to go off and go wherever I wanted to 76 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: go and make the mistakes I made and have the 77 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: successes I had. So I think that's probably now that 78 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 2: we say this, that's where a lot of it came from. 79 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 3: So the earliest impactful music in your life, what do 80 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 3: you first remember that really, you know, set the tone 81 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 3: for you. 82 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 4: Well, it's really clear to me. 83 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 2: There are a couple of very specific kind of like 84 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: markers on a timeline. And my great aunt was a 85 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: music teacher in Upper Montclair, New Jersey, and she built 86 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 2: her own little studio and I have some incredible photographs. 87 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 4: She had every instrument in the world in it. 88 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: So for me, being musical from the get go, going 89 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 2: to her studio where there were four pianos and xylophones 90 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 2: and drums and just everything you could imagine, was like heaven, 91 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: you know. So, and she taught piano, so I took 92 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 2: piano lessons from her. When I was five, six and seven, 93 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 2: you know, so that was that marker, and then pretty 94 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: shortly thereafter we're going to get into February ninth, nineteen 95 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: sixty four when the Beatles round the that Sullivan show, 96 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 2: and you know that that clearly was the next major. 97 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 2: You know, I played cello for years and I always 98 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 2: did a lot of stuff. But you know, I knew 99 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 2: the Beatles were coming. It wasn't like I saw them 100 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 2: and thought about it. I knew they were coming from 101 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 2: listening to my little Phillips radio and yeah, that that 102 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 2: blew my socks off. And that was it, you know, 103 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: when they showed up. 104 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 3: So I grew up in Stanford, Connecticut, and I had 105 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: parents that were you know, let's just say the it 106 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,239 Speaker 3: wasn't really a tight leash in those days. I could 107 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 3: take the train into to New York City, probably when 108 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,679 Speaker 3: I shouldn't have, but that had great impact in terms 109 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 3: of some of the music that I saw. So did 110 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 3: you sneak into the city and go to the village 111 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 3: see certain artists your favorites? 112 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 2: Because I grew up in New Jersey and it was 113 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: the irie Lakawana to help the Hoboken and then the 114 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 2: path train into the city, I would. So it was 115 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 2: a combination of sneaking in to see concerts and or 116 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 2: having somebody's parent who happened to live in the city 117 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 2: kind of drop us off and pick us up. But 118 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 2: there was a combination of both. And you know, with 119 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 2: you and I think I'm probably a little old of you, 120 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 2: but whatever. You know, I grew up in that incredible 121 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 2: period where you go to the Film or East and 122 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 2: see three ridiculous bands, and which of course I didn't 123 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: know at the time how crazy that was, you know, 124 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 2: but there you are with the Jeff Beck Group with 125 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: Rod Stuart and Runwood and Nicky Hopkins, and then there's 126 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: Joe on the Joe Cocker on the same bill with Nary. 127 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 4: It's like to. 128 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 2: See that now, you'd you know, it would blow your mind. 129 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 2: I mean, I wish they had video of all those shows. 130 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: But yeah, so I grew up going to a lot 131 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,799 Speaker 2: of those shows in the city and being very fortunate 132 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 2: to be close enough to get to them. 133 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 3: Remember those light shows too, at the film. 134 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 4: Or Joshua Light Show. 135 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 3: Sure it was incredible. Yeah, it's so impactful, for sure. 136 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 3: So let's go to Tommy two tone that embedded in 137 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 3: our brains to this day. Eight six, seven, five, three 138 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 3: oh nine, Jenny, So you were part of that incredible experience. 139 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 3: What was it like capturing lightning in a bottle with 140 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 3: that band and that song. 141 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: Well, it's kind of it's what you would imagine really 142 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: if you sit around, Thank God, what would it be 143 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: like if I wrote a song without thinking twice about 144 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 2: it being going anywhere, put it together with a band, 145 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: put it on a record, and then it blows up 146 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: And the fact that it's this many years later and 147 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: it's still impactful is luck. You know, there's a lot 148 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: of just not dumb luck, but just great fortune involved. 149 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: And you know, it was incredible because we were a 150 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: bar band and we had had a hit on the 151 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: first record. It was a song called Angels Say No, 152 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: which made in the top forty, so we had some 153 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 2: success and we had we were on the Petty tour 154 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: for Refugee, and but when eight sixty seven hit, you know, 155 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: it was it was a shared experience. That was the 156 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 2: other thing that was great about it is that and 157 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: this is not unusual. You know, you hear this from 158 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 2: a lot of rock bands that you know. When we 159 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 2: were playing at that stage when it was a hit. 160 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 2: It was a shared experience with the audience. We were 161 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 2: as we were as you know, we were as blown 162 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 2: away as the audience was with the song. I remember 163 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: we used to play it twice on some gigs is 164 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: because it was like so much fun and the audience 165 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 2: they were like having fun too, you know. It was Yeah, 166 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 2: it was mind boggling. And how fortunate am I to 167 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 2: have been a part of something that was like that, 168 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: you know. I mean, it all starts with Alex call 169 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: who was a songwriting partner. He was in a band 170 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: called Clover, which is where Huey Lewis and those guys 171 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 2: came from. And this is all in northern California, and 172 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 2: he and I were writing together and I showed up 173 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 2: at this funky little writing studio that he had and 174 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: he had that basis of that song, and I went, what. 175 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 4: The hell is that? 176 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 2: And then I finished it, I think virtually that day essentially, 177 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 2: and then the words were a little funky, but I 178 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 2: took it into the band and instantly it was just 179 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 2: fun to play. 180 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 4: And without belaboring this. 181 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: Too much, but we were really when we recorded that, 182 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 2: we were left to our own devices. Chuck Plotkin was 183 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 2: technically the producer, but he wasn't really in the room. 184 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 2: So Tommy and I basically played that with the band 185 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: and we arranged it in our own, very personal fashion 186 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: with very little influence from the outside. And you got 187 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 2: to remember, this is the early eighties and this is 188 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 2: where snare drum started going boosh. You know, everything was gated. 189 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 2: There were synthesizers started showing up on everything, and we 190 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: that track is not like that. That track is a barband, 191 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: an articulated one, but it's still the sounds are very straightforward, 192 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 2: so it has a timelessness that it's it's afforded itself 193 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 2: that it doesn't sound It still sounds like it's, you know, 194 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: a bunch of guys banging out the song in a garage. 195 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 4: You know. 196 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 2: It doesn't have any of the telltale kind of eighties 197 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 2: sound that I can't stand. 198 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 4: But you know, but again, that was just luck. You know. 199 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 3: I think at that point, the next time I hear it, 200 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 3: I'm going to think of it in a different way, 201 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 3: after having talked to you and having you walk me 202 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 3: through it, It's gonna feel differently to me because knowing 203 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 3: your incredible story, which then after losing the label deal 204 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 3: and those things happen. After success, you went through a 205 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 3: period of you know, I'm sure reflection and reinvention for 206 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 3: a number of years, right. 207 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, long time reflection. 208 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 2: It's a very it's a very poetic word for being 209 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 2: completely broke, me a clue what to do. And that 210 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: went on for a long time. I you know, I 211 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 2: moved back to the East Coast. I had bands, I played, 212 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 2: you know, Alan Pepper at the bottom Line was a 213 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 2: big fan, so I played there, you know, play there. 214 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 4: In various other places, had production deals. 215 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 2: But I wasn't It wasn't happening, you know, but nobody 216 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 2: kind of taps you on the shoulder and says, you know, Jim, 217 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 2: this isn't really happening. You should like do something else. 218 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: So I did that for a while when it wasn't happening. 219 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: And you know, you just because you write a song 220 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 2: and records and it doesn't mean it justifies having the 221 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 2: really the mojo of the energy that it deserves an 222 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: audience in a way. But I did that for a 223 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 2: long time and was broke and then ended up I know, 224 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 2: we're going to the next chapter where I ended up 225 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 2: starting to work with Philip Lass, which completely came out 226 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 2: of nowhere. 227 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 3: Philip Glass incredible unique, you know artists for sure, and 228 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 3: then ultimately your world intersected with some other incredible artists, uh, 229 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 3: including Tom Waits and Robbie Shankar. So talk about that experience, 230 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 3: which must have been amazing. 231 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 2: Well, I think I started working with Philip and I 232 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 2: didn't know anything about Philip or the music, but I 233 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 2: worked really hard to try to figure it out because 234 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 2: I was broke and I needed a career, and I 235 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 2: wanted health insurance and I wanted you know, I got married, 236 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 2: had a kid, and I learned. 237 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,479 Speaker 4: That world of the arts publishing world. 238 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 2: So I I kind of self taught that that planet, 239 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 2: and then met along the way, I met Robbie who 240 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 2: needed someone to help him. So I had a separate 241 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 2: company that I started with Philip, and so we we 242 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 2: took on Robbie and worked with him as his publisher 243 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 2: and then kind of co manager. Tom was also needed 244 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 2: somebody to look after his music theater works. He has 245 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: a bunch of music theater works that did with the 246 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 2: director Robert Wilson, who just passed away. And so I 247 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 2: started working with Tom, who became a very good friend. 248 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 2: And then there were a handful of other people, young 249 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 2: composer Nico Muley. I managed Rufus for a few years. 250 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: You know, a lot of a lot of really talented people. 251 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 2: You know, I was very fortunate that almost everybody I 252 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 2: worked with were just so talented that you know, it 253 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 2: made it. I'm not going to say it was easy, 254 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 2: but it's certainly the gratification from it was pretty straightforward, 255 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 2: because you know, I wasn't pushing a rock up a hill. 256 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 2: You know, they were at the up, they were up 257 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: the mountain. You know, all of those people. 258 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 3: So I had ed Begley Junior on a couple of times. 259 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 3: Who who is friendly with Tom Waits? So he gave 260 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 3: me some of his perspective, you know of Tom. But 261 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 3: what can you share as somebody who was close or 262 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 3: is close with Tom. What's the secret to Tom Waits? 263 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 3: His brilliance? 264 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 2: He's really commuse the F word on this show. Sure, 265 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: he's really fucking smart. And you know, this was true 266 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 2: with Philip, this was true with Robbie and that. You know, 267 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: it's not an accident if we just look at those 268 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 2: three individuals, they're all really smart. And you know, when 269 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 2: I'd sit and I spent a lot of time with 270 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 2: Tom and you know, we can sit around and joke 271 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 2: and all that stuff, but when it comes right down 272 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 2: to it, he's just really smart, and I know he 273 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 2: kind of plays it down, you know, with his character. 274 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 2: But the same was true with Robbie and with Philip. 275 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 2: He's sitting in the room with those guys, and if 276 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 2: they start talking, I end up listening, you know, and 277 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 2: I let them because there's undoubtedly they're going to say 278 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 2: something that's put together in a way that I never 279 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 2: would have thought of. 280 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taken a 281 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. 282 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 3: So after all those years behind the scenes and publishing 283 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 3: and management, then you step back into the spotlight as 284 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: a recording artist. So what inspired you? What was the 285 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 3: itch that was calling? 286 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: Well, I only I stopped for about ten years when 287 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 2: I first started working with Philip, when I was forty. 288 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: For ten years, I didn't play the guitar virtually, and 289 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 2: that was when I got this job. I got married, 290 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: I had a kid, which I was really involved in 291 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 2: raising my daughter, and then I hit fifty and it 292 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 2: was like it wasn't working anymore because essentially I'd given 293 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 2: up the most one of the most important things in 294 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: my life. So I really started again, you know, years ago, 295 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 2: and was writing for that whole period of time. And 296 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 2: my writing partner is a guy named Byron Isaacs, who 297 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: he's in the Illumineers, but he was in a band 298 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 2: called Lula Bell and he was Live on Helm's bass 299 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 2: player for years, and he lives down the street, and 300 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 2: so we would write together. We were doing that for 301 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 2: twenty five years. Virtually, you know, I don't see him 302 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 2: so much anymore, but I was involved. The big difference 303 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 2: is that when I stopped, I kind of retired from 304 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 2: the business world, and as I'd like to say, I 305 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 2: got my old job back of being an unemployed musician, 306 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 2: and funny enough. 307 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 4: It was still available. 308 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 2: And the reality is it's a lot more fun than working. 309 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 2: So but I played a lot all the time through 310 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 2: those years. I have a jam session I do at 311 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 2: least once a week that I've been doing for a 312 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 2: twenty years, where I just say who wants to play 313 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 2: and whoever's in town can come in the room, and 314 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 2: literally every week for twenty years I've been doing this. 315 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 2: I'm doing it twice this week, you know, with characters. 316 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 2: I'm sure you know Tony Leoni from Little Feet, who 317 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: else is in the Andy Hess from the you know, Black. 318 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 4: Crows or whatever the hell? You know? 319 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 2: I mean guys that are they're just around. And so 320 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 2: I was always doing that in writing and then doing 321 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 2: some recording. But I think what's happened now is a 322 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 2: couple of things. One I have the time, and the 323 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: other thing is I'm seventy one, and it's like, I, 324 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 2: you know, if I'm not going to put this stuff 325 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 2: down now, it's when am I going to do it? 326 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 2: What else would I want to do? And there's definitely 327 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 2: you know, you get to you get older, and there's 328 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 2: this a sense of it's not desperation, but it's a 329 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 2: sense of like, Okay, this is a limited I have 330 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 2: a limited time in front of me, and I want 331 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 2: to milk as much out of it as I can. 332 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 2: And that means I want to play as much music 333 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: as I can and travel as much as I can. 334 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 2: So the songs has always been a pride, a part 335 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 2: of what I'm doing songwriting, and that's always the core 336 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 2: of everything. 337 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 4: And if the songs are there, then then we'll go recording. 338 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 3: And those sessions that you talk about, the jam sessions, 339 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,719 Speaker 3: they're pretty much they're not recorded or videotaped or anything 340 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 3: like that. 341 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 2: Right now, I kind of have a rule from the 342 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 2: very beginning, there's no recording equipment. It's not a recording studio, 343 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 2: there's no video gear. Whatever happens in that room is 344 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 2: what happens, and it's ephemeral and then it's gone. And 345 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,680 Speaker 2: I think the people that come into that room they 346 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 2: appreciate the fact that that's what it is. It's not 347 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: for any other purpose than whatever happens in that room. 348 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 2: And invariably every session, something happens that everyone in the 349 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 2: room knows, Okay, that was happening right there. 350 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 4: You don't have to discuss it. Everyone knows it when 351 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 4: it happens. 352 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 2: And in very I think out of twenty odd years, 353 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 2: maybe there's been two sessions where I kind of walked 354 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 2: home and went, whoof wow, what happened. But almost always 355 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 2: there's stuff that happens, and you know, I'm just so 356 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 2: fortunate that there are so many great players that want 357 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 2: to do that, and it's having songs. It's really important too, 358 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 2: because I do play my songs and I workshop songs 359 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 2: and then we just take. 360 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 4: Off from there. 361 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 2: But I've done it I used to have a set 362 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 2: of gear in La so I would do it when 363 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 2: I was in Los Angeles at a studio out there, 364 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 2: and the pandemic happened to kind of change things. But 365 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 2: so and you know, I go to San Francisco and 366 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 2: I find a rehearsal studios and players and who wants 367 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 2: to play. So it's it's you know, it's a pretty 368 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 2: great way to make music. 369 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 3: Oh man, it sounds like therapy. Really, it sounds it 370 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 3: sounds wonderful. Were you ever able to make it? You 371 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 3: mentioned indirectly Levon Helm. Will you ever make ever able 372 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 3: to make get to Levan's jam sessions that he used 373 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 3: to do that years ago? 374 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: No, No, I mean I've been to the barn, I've 375 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,239 Speaker 2: been to concerts, but I've never I mean, I know 376 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 2: all those people up there, but I've never been a 377 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 2: part of that. 378 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 3: Now, so fast forward now to the end of the world. 379 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 3: Congratulations on that work. I know you're proud of that work. 380 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 3: Can take us through the creative process of that. I 381 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 3: know you probably workshop some of it in those sessions, 382 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 3: as you indicated, but talk about your your creative process, 383 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 3: your songwriting process for that project, or in general, all 384 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 3: your work well. 385 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 2: I never sit down and say I'm going to write 386 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 2: a song about something. So I never sit down and say, Okay, 387 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 2: I'm going to write a group of songs about this. 388 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 2: The song dictates where it's going to go, and whatever 389 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 2: I'm thinking of or going through at that time will 390 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 2: steer that, but I'm not dictating it. So you know, 391 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 2: on this record, there's just no question that a lot 392 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 2: of the stuff on there is a reflection, and in 393 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 2: my mind it's a serious reflection, but I do it 394 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 2: in a somewhat sarcastic, light hearted way often on the songs, 395 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: but it's a reflection on the political environment that we're 396 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 2: in right now and the technological environment that we're in 397 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: and how I feel about that stuff and how overwhelming 398 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 2: it all is. So there's more than a half. There's 399 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 2: a handful of songs that are clearly that's what's happening, 400 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 2: and then other songs I'm writing about whatever comes out 401 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 2: that day, and whether it's a personal story or just 402 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 2: a pop song. It's again that you know, when you 403 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 2: have the guitar in your hands, that tells you where, 404 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 2: that leads you where you're going. 405 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 4: In a way, I know that's a little bag. 406 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 2: But so it's a group of songs that in some 407 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: way have to be a reflection of who I am 408 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: right now. 409 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 4: But it's not like I tell you why or dictate that. 410 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 2: It's just kind of what happens, and this is what 411 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 2: came out at this moment, this group of songs. 412 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 3: Are you envisioning these songs at the point of creation 413 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 3: on how they will play out in a live environment? 414 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:28,479 Speaker 2: Initially, no, because I'm literally sitting Almost everything I write 415 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 2: is and it's an acoustic guitar and I use my 416 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 2: thumb and you know, I literally am plucking away quietly. 417 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 2: So initially it's really about you know, rhythm, melody, chord 418 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 2: changes and lyric, and then I think when I go 419 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 2: into room, you bring the rhythm section in, then that 420 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 2: changes instantly, and then I play around with it. You know, 421 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 2: if I'm playing stuff at a jam session, would I 422 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 2: do all the time? It's like, whoever the guy in 423 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 2: that room are, that's what that song is that day. 424 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,959 Speaker 2: And I don't really rarely do I tell them somebody 425 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 2: where to go, because I kind of want to hear 426 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:10,719 Speaker 2: what they're going to do. 427 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 4: And when you. 428 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 2: Play with great players, invariably they're going to take you 429 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 2: somewhere interesting. Now it may not be where the song 430 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: ends up, but you're going to have a nice ride 431 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 2: along the way before you figure that out. And then 432 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 2: the studio process is different. And in this case, Adam 433 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 2: Mankoff is a brilliant musician, arranger, composer who I've worked with. 434 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 2: This is the second record I've done with Adam. You know, 435 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 2: he and I spent a lot of time together and 436 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 2: I'll send him a little acoustic thing and then he'll 437 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 2: send back a blown up arrangement with some interesting ideas, 438 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: and then we'll decide, you know, okay, how do we 439 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 2: want to cut this in the studio. 440 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 3: I'm getting the sense that in these studio sessions the 441 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 3: environment is very relaxed, and there can be a comedic 442 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 3: undertone at any given time, but also a serious commitment 443 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 3: to the craft. Is that a fair evaluation of the 444 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,479 Speaker 3: vibe of a session. 445 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, because all of these guys are serious players 446 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 2: and they're all serious about you know, where where it is, 447 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 2: you know, the groove, the part, the melody, whatever it is. 448 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 2: But at the same time, it's completely loose and you know, 449 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 2: we'll go off on and I'm seriously you know, we'll 450 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: play it to one cored for ten minutes and everyone 451 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 2: will just go around and solo on it, and then 452 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 2: it'll come back to something else. I'll make something up, 453 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: you know. So that's a pretty good description of the 454 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 2: energy in the room. 455 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,959 Speaker 3: Talk about some of your other favorites from the End 456 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 3: of the World, including all of them, if you'd like. 457 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 2: Oh well, I mean, there's a song called Love One Another, 458 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 2: which is the first track, and I mean, first off, 459 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 2: I you know it's about something, you know, for me, 460 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,679 Speaker 2: it's about something. And I mean I never liked talking 461 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 2: about what song my songs are back is really what 462 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 2: they're about is whatever the listener thinks. It's not what 463 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 2: I think they're about. That matters. 464 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 4: And you know that that groove, it's a great groove. 465 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 2: There's a drummer named Tony Mason who's on that track, 466 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 2: and it's brilliant and Adam came up with some really 467 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 2: great parts. The second song, which has Got No Time 468 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 2: for That, which is actually came out of a jam 469 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 2: from twenty years ago and I found on an old recorder, 470 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 2: you know, it was before iPhones. 471 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 4: I used to use this. 472 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 3: Thing or I remember one of those. I had one 473 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 3: of those. 474 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a voice recorder for office notes or something. Yeah, 475 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 2: And I found this thing that I had done in 476 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 2: a room with a guy named Scott Metzger was on 477 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 2: it is a great guitar player, and I fished this 478 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 2: thing out and then I finished the song with Byron, 479 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: you know, about what a year ago or so, And 480 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 2: you know that's you know, that's just a great fun 481 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 2: rock pop song. But it's also about, you know, the 482 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 2: fact that I'm severyone and I'm roadkill to the technology 483 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 2: that we all have to deal with every day. Every 484 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 2: time I want to make a reservation at a restaurant, 485 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 2: I have to put my birth certificate number on it, 486 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 2: you know, and then I get five notices back on 487 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 2: you know, how did you like? You know whatever? It's 488 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,919 Speaker 2: just all way too much, and you know, you know 489 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 2: it's my complaint about that much, just everything else. 490 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, would you rather that you only had a landline 491 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 3: rather than a cell phone? 492 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 2: Well, I wish the internet didn't exist, you know. I 493 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 2: we all worked perfectly well before email, and now with texting, 494 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 2: where it's this constant, constant, constant barrage. There's no reflective 495 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 2: time in your day and at work when I was 496 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 2: still working. There was no reflective time. It was just 497 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 2: react of which you know is like an old man complaining, But. 498 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's I have to say. 499 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: Some of the other songs that I'm fond over, the ballads, 500 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 2: I'm I'm going to put a compliation together of just 501 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 2: the ballads because those are always impactful for me. And 502 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 2: there's a couple on this record that I really like. 503 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 2: I think there's like three up them that are all 504 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 2: impactful for me. 505 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 3: So in closing, I know I led with this, which 506 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 3: I think is I stand by at you in terms 507 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 3: of reinvention and always finding this this rebirth and renaissance. 508 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 3: What advice would you give to somebody listening, whether it's 509 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 3: a musician or just someone at a phase of their 510 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 3: life that's looking for a new chapter and something to 511 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 3: be excited about. What advice would you give to them? 512 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's pretty broad, but I think I'm 513 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 2: asked often friends of mine send their kids to me, 514 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 2: or they come to me or they send their kids 515 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 2: about what do we do my son wants a music career, 516 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 2: and what advice you have? And I always say, you know, 517 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 2: find the joy, you know, find something that you love 518 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 2: doing it. And do it for that reason. And you 519 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 2: have to, you know, that's the most important thing, is 520 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 2: that you have to find something that really gives you 521 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 2: that satisfaction. And if you can take that and move 522 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 2: forward with that, that's great. But the end result can't 523 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 2: be big success. It's got to start with you being 524 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 2: passionate about something and you know, following that passion, whether 525 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 2: it's professionally or as an amateur. And you know, a 526 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 2: guy playing phil in a bar at a jam session, 527 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 2: nobody can tell him that he's having any less fun 528 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 2: than somebody that's playing at Madison Square Garden that night. 529 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 2: You know, it's all about, you know, this gratification that 530 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: you get from music. In our case, that comes in 531 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 2: every shape and form, and there's no sell by date 532 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 2: on it and there's no quantification on it. So wherever 533 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 2: it happens, however it can happen, that's that's where the 534 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 2: important stuff is. 535 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 5: Drink that wine up, watch the river Flow, Jimmy Keller, 536 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 5: Bravo on the end of the World, and it's so 537 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 5: fantastic to have you on the Taking a Walk Podcast. 538 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 4: Thanks thanks for having me. 539 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 540 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: Walk Podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 541 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 542 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 543 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.