WEBVTT - Abortion: The Body Politic, Part 5 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:05.039 M I'm Katie Curic, and this is Abortion the Body Politic, 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:09.280 Part five. What has just occurred in the United States 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:13.720 is unprecedented. Globally, we have never seen retrogression on this 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.120 scale in terms of the taking away of a constitutional 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:21.040 right to abortion that has existed for fifty years. Today, 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:24.520 we're looking outside of the US to find out what 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:28.080 the right for reproductive rights looks like in other countries 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:33.720 and how the United States now compares. The United States 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:37.160 is now in a situation but really is an outlier 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:44.760 in sense of the global picture. I'm Lea Hocter and 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:48.720 I work at the Center for Reproductive Rights. I'm the 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.360 senior Regional Director for Europe at the Center, and I 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.480 lead the Center's work to make legaland policy change on 0:00:55.560 --> 0:01:01.520 reproductive rights across Europe. Only three countries and now very 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:04.680 unfortunately the United States, so that makes it for have 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:10.400 actually moved backwards. El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Poland have rowed 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:14.200 back entitlements to abortion, but never on this scale. They 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:18.520 have done so from restrictive contexts, so they have had 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.920 laws in place that we're already generally globally regarded as 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:26.360 restrictive and have then scaled back those entitlements. But the 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.200 United States, what has happened in terms of the Supreme 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.600 Court's decision um, what that decision has done is taken 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:37.360 away a very robust constitutional protection for abortion rights and 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:44.000 completely decimated that. Globally, the trend is very clear. There 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:48.640 is an overwhelming movement and has been for many, many 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:53.920 decades across the world in all regions, towards the removal 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:57.200 of bands and highly restrictive laws on abortion, and towards 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:01.200 the legalization of abortion, the treatment of it as essential healthcare, 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.480 the decriminalization and the removal of barriers in law and policy. 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.600 And this is the overwhelming trend. It has been the 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:12.040 trend in Europe for eighty years. It has been squarely 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:16.160 the global trend um for at least the last thirty years. 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.560 I mean in the last thirty years alone, fifty five 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.359 or you know, over fifty five I think actually fifty 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:28.160 nine countries globally have moved towards removing bands on abortion, 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:34.480 legalizing abortion, and expanding access, expanding entitlements to abortion. We've 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:39.600 seen major systemic change in Latin America as a result 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:43.520 of the green wave. In Argentina, Columbia and Mexico, in 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:48.040 the European region. We've seen systemic change in Ireland, in Cyprus, 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:52.280 in Belgium, in Iceland. Even just in the last few weeks, 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:57.680 major jurisdictions Germany, France, the Netherlands all removing barriers from 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:01.440 to abortion from their laws Spain. Legislation is now pending 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.959 in Spain that will really introduce a range of very 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:08.720 important reforms that will increase protection for abortion rights. And 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.560 these are just a handful of examples. We've also seen 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:17.080 major change in African countries in Kenya, um in South Africa, 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:21.280 and in in Asia and Nepal, in India and South Korea, 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:24.360 and a range of other countries. It's not actually impossible 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.480 for me to list every single country in the world 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.320 that has made progressive change, because there are so many. 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:35.480 Some countries are now taking protective measures in direct response 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:40.320 to the Supreme courts reversal of Row. In the days 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.920 since the decision from the United States Supreme Court, we 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:48.000 are now hearing lawmakers in France, in Belgium, in Sweden 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:52.360 and Denmark discussing in a very conquerent way the reforms 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:56.680 they will undertake to introduce constitutional rights protection for abortion 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.920 rights in their national constitutions. We've seen sinn Land announced 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:04.000 that it will undertake reforms of its laws to improve 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:06.840 them to bring them into line with World Health Organization 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:12.320 UM guidance. So while for people in the United States 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:16.520 the situation is very troubling and very grave, what we 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.080 are actually seeing on foot of this decision in this 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:23.400 region in Europe is a galvanization by decision makers across 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:26.800 the region who care about reproductive rights to actually begin 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.120 to stand up for those rights and do something in 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:32.040 terms of their own national laws and policies to shore 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:36.360 up that production. With the US now facing a long 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:40.400 road ahead, it's about time we turn our attention to 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:44.360 what activists around the world have been building. What can 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.400 the US and abortion advocates learn from the systemic change 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:52.880 rippling across other continents. We reached out to someone on 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:57.040 the front lines of reproductive rights in Latin America, one 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:01.160 of the organizers of the so called Green wave. The 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.919 green wave is resistant, is power, is hope. That's what 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.920 the green wave is. So I am Powerla Like jan 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:13.560 I am a human rights attorney reproductive rights activists all 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:17.160 over Latin America, and I am the executive director at 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:22.360 the Women's Equality center. It started in Argentina when UM, 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:27.599 the la Campaign Nacional, the National Campaign for Legal and 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:32.600 Free Abortion, was created in two thousand three. It all 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.520 started with a symbol. There was this handkerchief. The handkerchief 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:43.080 was a green handkerchief. The handkerchief came inspired by the Ulam. 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.000 There were the women in Argentina that were marching UM 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.760 to find the kids that their children that were disappeared 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.040 during the Dector Chip. And they will march every Thursday, 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.360 and they will wear these white handkerchiefs around their their 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.599 heads as a symbol of who they were. And every 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.400 Thursday at three o'clock you will see the Martian even 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.120 as today they are still Martian. At this point, it's 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:11.320 not to try to seek their children, but their grandchildren. 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.960 So it was a movement of resistance, right, this idea 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.640 that women can come together and resists together and the 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:22.679 like companion as you all decided, instead of using white, 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:26.320 they were using green because abortion is healthcare and green 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.480 is associated with the color of health. And it started 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:31.680 very simple, just with this idea of you will put 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:36.360 the handkerchief in your race, in your purse, and and 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:38.679 it was a not when you were on the street 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:42.160 of letting know somebody what you were standing for, and 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:44.320 I mean that you were standing for women's rights. It 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:46.320 means that you were standing for health. I mean that 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.159 you were standing for abortion as a health care. That 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.560 you were standing for equality, you were standing for democracy 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:58.120 and all the sudden UH. Through the work of many years, 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.200 this small symbol took cover the entire Latin American region 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:10.480 and it has take over the entire work. It also 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:15.320 has created changes. In the last two years, Latin America 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.600 has jumped from being one of the regions with the 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:23.400 most restricted abortion laws to be in a region there 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:28.320 has changed its abortion laws in three countries. Argentina is 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.520 also the land of the current pope, just changed its 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:35.680 law in December twenty twenty, recogniztion autonomy as a as 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:39.320 a right and UH and also making sure that help 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.440 the abortion was included in health services and were provided 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:46.720 free in hospitals for anybody who needed. Then we had 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:52.240 Mexico through the decision of the Supreme Court, he decided 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.280 that in order to make it equal for everybody, no 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.880 women could be criminalized because of abortion access and the 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.840 states had the duty to change their laws. And since 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:05.320 that decision, nine states had changed their laws, and then 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:09.000 very resently we had my home country, Columbia, the true 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:14.080 decision of the UH Constitutional Court recognized the women should 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:19.680 have autonomy to decide when and where UH interrupt apprentices 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.720 if they wish so between the first twenty four weeks 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.520 of of pregnancy, and and that just is something that 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.680 we never thought that would happen in Mexico. Is it's 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.720 still a very religious country. Goluby is still a very 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.760 religious country and conservative in many ways. But what we 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.319 are seeing is the resistance of this movement and the 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:48.160 hope that this movement brings is changing laws in the 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:51.760 meantime here in the US. For women who need abortion 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.920 care right now and live in states that ban or 0:08:54.960 --> 0:09:00.920 heavily restricted traveling even outside the country, maybe their beast. 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:03.280 But I think that there are two things that are 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.000 important to remember when we talk about abortion in the 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.920 context of traveling outside the United States. The first one 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:14.400 is abortionist health care, and Americans have been traveling to 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:19.160 Latin America for healthcare for a very long time. Then 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.720 tal procedures, some of the best dentists are done in 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.440 Mexico and Colombia. They are training the United States, they 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:28.560 go back there is much cheaper. They have all these facilities. 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:33.240 The tourism of health is something in exist because the 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:37.160 United States doesn't have a strong health care system. They 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:39.920 they are already are examples and you're seeking healthcare in 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.959 other countries. So now we are just starting abortion just 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.400 one of those services that you're going to be seeking 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.120 that is of the same quality and of the same 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.760 level that you will receive and is sometimes better than 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.760 many of the states here, like the systems that you 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.880 will have. But the other thing that is happening is 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:59.920 that the women who are in the border in Mexico 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:04.520 UM trying to provide these services. There is an amazing 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.760 leader in Mexico, Peronica Cruise from Lallibres, who have created 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:12.640 this whole network of people who are willing to just 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.440 provide abortion to anybody who crosses the border or even 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:21.320 sometimes they across the border UM to to provide help. 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.840 They didn't do it because it was a request for 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:29.320 anybody from the United States. They came together so the 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.400 Texas law and say, what are we going to do 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:37.640 about it? It's our border, they are our sisters. There 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:42.080 are our Latino systems on the other side. What are 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:45.600 we going to do? About it, because, as Beronica says, 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.120 the law sometimes is wrong, and when the law is wrong, 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:55.360 you need to find a way to fix it. The 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:59.480 United States, in this case, it's just completely going backwards. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:04.720 It is regressing and humanity cannot allow that. We spoke 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:08.360 to Veronica Cruise with the help of a translator from 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:13.640 her office in Guana Wato, Mexico. Veronica started her organization 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:20.720 Las Libres two decades ago. Las Libre. Las Libres is 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:24.680 a feminist organization that was born twenty two years ago, 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.040 and we were born in the right time to fight 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:33.480 for safe abortion in a state which was the most 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:37.640 restrictive for abortion rights at the time in the country 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:43.400 of Mexico. So, twenty two years ago, local legislators wanted 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:47.800 to put women victims of rape in jail after having abortions, 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.920 and and we decided to make a huge fight to 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:56.280 guarantee that not only would those women be released, but 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:00.240 also to have the law change so so I can 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:04.080 we We did a great job of ensuring safe, free 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:09.120 and legal abortions for girls and women who were victims 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:14.480 of rape. From there, we we started to guarantee that 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:19.840 all women would have that right to a safe and 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:24.040 legal abortion if they decided to do so. And and 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.600 so we built this model of safe abortions at home 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:34.560 without medical supervision under the protocol of the World Health Organization, 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:42.000 and today we've built networks across the country to ensure that. Coincidentally, 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.439 a week after s b A became law in Texas, 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:58.160 the Mexican Supreme Court decriminalized abortion. We thought it was 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.960 a good idea to help that memen in Texas right 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:07.720 because in Mexican territory, the Texas lob does not apply 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:12.120 to them. And although our locations border each other, if 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.120 you just crossed the street, we are in Texas. So 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:19.199 in certain border cities, we decided to form a cross 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:25.120 border network to support and accompany women from Texas who 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:31.440 are seeking free, safe and legal abortions. So then more 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.800 women began to arrive from other states from the United States, 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:41.760 and well after the summer, women from all around the 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:46.920 country started coming to Mexico for help. We've already developed 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.640 several logistical ways over the past few months to ensure 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.720 the safety of abortion and to ensure that women and 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:57.679 people in the United States who are seeking them can 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:02.160 do so safely. The first are the women who can 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.600 cross to Mexico. Those who have the ability to cross, 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.280 they can come and they can buy their mr Po 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:12.720 style pills at any pharmacy in Mexico, and they can 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:17.120 return home with their prescription and they can have a 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:22.800 virtual accompaniment to accompany them through the procedure. And then 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.800 there are other women who are crossing into Mexico, and 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.040 we have safe spaces that we arrange for them for 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:33.480 those women who want to do everything in Mexico. And 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:37.000 then there are others, and and these are actually the majority. 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.360 These are women who write to us and we send 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:44.000 the pills to be hand delivered to them from here, 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:49.800 and then we accompany them through the process. Virtually, there 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:53.640 are women who are looking for our services, and there 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.960 are also people who want to help. And so we're 0:14:57.000 --> 0:15:00.880 developing the model that we developed in Mexico twenty years ago, 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:07.640 building social solidarity, a society that accompanies the decision of 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:12.800 women and a guarantee of abortions, with the insurance of 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.920 the safety of women so that they do not have 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:22.560 to have abortions and restrictive and unsafe settings. We are 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:25.520 prepared because we know that we can be an option 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:29.440 that more and more women are are learning about this 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:33.280 possibility and they can get care through our services and 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:38.200 that they have us as an alternative. So so we 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.360 are prepared with more medicine and more hands and heads 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:47.320 to go along with it. But but honestly, we don't 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:51.960 want to solve America's problem. American society has to solve 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:57.360 this problem because it's not a woman's problem. It's it's 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:01.280 a problem of a society that allows women's rights to 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:06.520 a legal and safe abortion to be restricted. So if 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.640 we really hope that American society is prepared to deal 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:15.520 with this problem. When we come back the story of 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:30.560 one woman's border crossing abortion, this isn't the first time 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:34.240 that American women have turned to Mexico for help. In 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:38.400 the nineteen sixties, in particular, many women traveled to Mexico 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.280 for abortion care they were unable to get in the 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:47.600 United States. Women like Marcia Carlin. My name is Marcia Carlin. 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:52.120 I'm seventy seven and I had my abortion when I 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:57.880 was twenty one, before robi Raide was passed in nineteen 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.480 sixty six. When Marcia found her pregnant and did not 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.359 want to be she first went to an O. B. G. 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:08.800 Y N in San Francisco to a Dr Loewenstein, but 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.960 he refused to do the procedure. Dr Loewenstein didn't know 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:16.760 of anybody, any doctor in the United States at that 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:21.080 time who would give me an abortion, so he gave 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:27.080 us the phone number in Tijuana for this doctor. And 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.440 it turned out the police had had a had made 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.960 him leave Tijuana. He'd run out of Tijuana because the 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:37.560 police were after him, so he was now in Warez, 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.679 so we knew we had to somehow get to Mexico. 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.919 He told us to check in at the el, pass 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.080 at the hotel and then take a taxi to a 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:55.240 street border in Warez and then um, a guy would 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:56.919 pick us up in her I think it was a 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:01.080 red Chevrolet, and we were supposed to act like we 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:06.639 knew him. And we waited and waited on that street corner, 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.520 and finally he came by and he opened the door 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:12.160 real fast and said get in. So we got in, 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.560 and he drove around and around and around for at 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:18.880 least twenty minutes, drove around the back streets of Warez 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.240 and probably trying so we wouldn't know where he was going. 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.119 Ended up in a residential neighborhood in a small house 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:31.119 and said coming here, the doctor's in there, and he 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:35.240 brought me in and a woman said sit here and 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:37.760 wait for the doctors. So after a while she brought 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.720 me back to a bedroom where there was a metal 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.639 table and she said, lie on the table. It was 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:49.400 stirts and the doctor came in and he was going 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.679 to give me gas and he said I want you 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:55.679 and I put the gas on. Not to move, don't 0:18:55.760 --> 0:19:00.520 move at all. But he gave me gas then, so 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:04.200 I started having wild dreams, and all of a sudden, 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.760 all I remember is he pulled the yanked the gas 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:13.360 mask off and said you moved, and I was. It's 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.440 hard to explain how scary that was because I didn't 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:20.080 know what he was doing to my body and my uterus. 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:24.320 And so he said, I'm then I have to finish 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:29.040 the operation without the gas, and I said that's fine 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.480 with me because I was scared to death. I wasn't 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:37.640 gonna move then, and so he did very quickly finished 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.639 what he was doing. I guess he was scraping my 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:43.960 uterus and and he said you're going to get cramps, 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:49.399 and I did that serious fans. Anyway, we left and 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:53.920 got in the car, the red Chevrolet, and he drove 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:57.399 us back again, and we got a taxi back to 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:00.720 El Paso, and then we got up playing back to 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.400 San Francisco, and then I saw Dr Loewenstein that evening, 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.680 I think for the next morning, and he said everything 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:11.280 looked fine. But a couple of days later, I think 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:16.160 it was two days later, I started to hemorrhage. I'd 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:21.080 never hemorrhage before. It's it's that in itself. It's a 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:25.119 very scary feeling. There's just blood gushing out of your 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:30.280 your vagina. My friends were very worried about me, and 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:34.080 so they said, call Dr Lowancy. We're gonna take you 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:38.160 back to the hospital in San Francisco. So they drove 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:40.879 me back. I was curled up in the backseat of 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:45.639 the car. I remember this distinctly, and just so anxious. 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:48.159 First I didn't know what was happening in my body, 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.600 and then I thought I was messing up his car 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.359 with all this blood. No, even though I tried not 0:20:54.600 --> 0:21:00.480 to mess it up. So we got back and Dr 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:03.159 Loewenstein had talked to me and he said come right in. 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.040 And what he did that he put me out that 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.000 night and just so i'd sleep, and then first thing 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:11.399 in the morning he operated. I think he did a 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:19.720 DNC to finish the operation. He told me how scared, 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:23.159 how not he wasn't scared, but how worried he was 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:28.159 that I could have died from the hemorrhaging. And he 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:31.240 y'all also came around, gave me a hug, actually said, 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.199 stand if I want to give you a hug. And 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.960 he said, I'm so glad you will be able to 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:41.359 have children. And I hadn't even realized that that could be. 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:44.880 I was worried about I don't know. I was just 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:49.000 frightened more than anything. And he said he will be 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.520 able to have the children. I'm quite sure I was 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:57.160 able to have two kids. So a few years later, 0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:02.400 when it was the right time, Dr Loewensteinen in San 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:06.040 Francisco had asked me to write up to type up 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:09.720 the experience, so I typed it up before I hemorrhaged. 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:12.120 I typed it up when I got back and gave 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:14.760 it to him because he wanted to know more to 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:18.119 help other women. I sent you a copy of the 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.280 They're write up, which I finally found. I hadn't seen 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:24.960 it since I gave it to him. That was great. 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:29.639 Two kind of verify everything I had remembered in my mind. 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:34.800 I was most surprised that it ended before I hemorrhaged. 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:38.800 I didn't remember that that it ended like everything was fine, 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:42.760 but it wasn't. It was not fine. I just thank 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:45.919 the Lord at the end that everything worked out. Okay, 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:52.800 it's very lucky, as very very lucky. It's really hard. 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:55.080 It's even harder to know, like who were the people 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:57.240 across the border for morsons. It's very hard to know 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:01.440 how many. UM, my guess is in the thousands of 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:05.760 My name is Lena Maria Murillo and I'm a historian. UM. 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:08.639 I'm an assistant professor at the University of Iowa and 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:12.800 the Department of Gender, Women in Sexuality Studies, History and 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:17.480 Latin and Latino Latin Next six. Through her work, Lena 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:21.760 has uncovered evidence of just how long American women have 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:26.679 been traveling to Mexico for abortion care. This is a 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:30.280 problem with trying to find the history of things that 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:35.040 are underground and illegal, right, It's always hard to find 0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:38.320 this sort of like moment when it started. But through 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:43.800 oral histories, um I was able to document UM one 0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:48.439 abortion clinic in into other bodies UH in the nineteen 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:53.000 late nineteen forties and UM the person I spoke to 0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:55.639 like worked at his clinic. She was a young woman 0:23:55.760 --> 0:24:00.520 worked at at the Davalos clinic. She hired is another 0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:04.480 young woman, uh, and he teaches her how to do 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:06.919 the procedure. Now she's not a doctor, she's she's just 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:10.479 an assistant, but she teaches her, and then he teaches 0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:14.200 his son mad and then it's like kind of radio 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:17.800 silence from that, like that oral history intribue that I 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:21.760 did in nineteen forties until the nineteen sixties when a 0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:26.080 person by the name of Patricia McGinnis, along with um 0:24:26.160 --> 0:24:28.879 Rowena Gerner, and Lanta Fallon out of the Bay Area, 0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:33.639 begin to really advocate very loudly for a repeal of 0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:38.960 the abortion laws in California. Patricia McGinnis in San Francisco. 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:45.800 She's working class women from Oklahoma, and she's a medical technician, 0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:52.480 historian Leslie Reagan, and she she that's like the first 0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:56.160 person to start talking to just ordinary people and collects 0:24:56.160 --> 0:25:00.600 petitions to reform the abortion law and make it easier, uh, 0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:04.240 to get therapeutic abortions. And then she starts talking because 0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:07.360 she had had abortions herself, she had performed her own abortion, 0:25:07.480 --> 0:25:10.680 she had had illegal abortions. She had illegal abortion in Mexico. 0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:13.840 And so they created this big um not we want 0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:19.080 big pathetic quotes organization UM called the Society Humane Abortions 0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:23.160 and then the Association to Repeal Abortion Laws. And through 0:25:23.320 --> 0:25:26.720 those two organizations UM, they begin to create a list 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:30.960 of abortion providers in the US Mexico border region, what's 0:25:31.000 --> 0:25:34.960 called the list of Providers in Mexico and some in 0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:39.679 Japan and England. They go and they to Mexico and 0:25:39.720 --> 0:25:44.840 they meet the specialists, and they they inspect the clinics, 0:25:44.920 --> 0:25:48.600 and they set up this whole thing where UM there 0:25:48.600 --> 0:25:52.240 they heart like the public health inspectors. And really was 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:54.840 Rowena Gerner who was like that. She was the one 0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:57.679 who was on top of making sure that everybody was 0:25:57.720 --> 0:26:02.119 doing things properly. And they ask anyone who gets this 0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:06.000 information they provide, you know a big packet of information 0:26:06.040 --> 0:26:08.560 of where to go, how to prepare, what to expect, 0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:11.320 how much it will cost. And they asked them to 0:26:11.359 --> 0:26:18.320 fill out, um uh something about the procedure and to 0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:22.639 bring back information, you know about the quality of the procedure. 0:26:22.760 --> 0:26:26.680 Was it safe, did it appear to be um, you know, sanitary? 0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:29.719 How do they behave how much did they charge you? 0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:32.440 So so they also created you know, like a consumer 0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:36.280 pressure group because they kept information and they would take 0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:38.679 people off the list as they got bad information. So 0:26:38.800 --> 0:26:43.400 that's one really important group that was sending people out 0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:48.160 of the country UM for Safe Abortions, and that they 0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:52.080 are trying to regulate the practitioners. What's fascinating is that 0:26:52.160 --> 0:26:55.199 she ends up and listening those two people that I 0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:59.840 just mentioned UM who is the son of Antonio la 0:27:00.160 --> 0:27:02.480 who had the clinic of nineteen Fouries, and this other 0:27:02.680 --> 0:27:06.280 other person who's the father taught her and they're like 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:08.600 number one on her list. She's like, I love these people. 0:27:08.720 --> 0:27:12.320 They know what they're doing, they're amazing, they do great work. 0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:16.480 And and sure enough, like as I've looked through the 0:27:16.600 --> 0:27:20.359 UM through their files, some people were like it was fine, right, 0:27:20.400 --> 0:27:22.080 like they didn't want to say too much. This was fine, 0:27:22.160 --> 0:27:24.440 not a big deal. And other people went to great 0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:27.359 links to kind of tell every detail of what the 0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:31.960 experience had been like. And UM of the woman provider, 0:27:32.840 --> 0:27:38.400 people had the most incredible experiences with her. She operated 0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:42.000 completely underground UM out of a small house, you know, 0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:45.919 as an all women, all women crew. UM. She was 0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:48.320 assisted by her sister, and then they had like two 0:27:48.320 --> 0:27:51.520 other women assistants, and um, they would feed the people 0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:55.159 that would come um and get abortions. And you know, 0:27:55.520 --> 0:27:58.040 one woman wrote like they did my makeup when I left. 0:27:58.040 --> 0:28:00.840 I lived prettier after my abortion and I did when 0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:06.080 I got here. UM. I mean just you know, I'm 0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:09.840 interpreting it as like really thoughtful sort of feminist, feminist 0:28:09.920 --> 0:28:15.399 grounded care right. And so the demand for abortion goes up, 0:28:15.560 --> 0:28:20.480 especially in the nineteen sixties when you've got like women's 0:28:20.520 --> 0:28:24.000 liberation right is at the forefront of all this um 0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:27.960 and and so people are demanding greater access to abortion care. 0:28:28.400 --> 0:28:30.639 And so they go to Northern meche Goal to to 0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:34.480 get that abortion care. I want to guess Tomate thousands 0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:40.080 of people um went and and got successfully access abortion 0:28:40.120 --> 0:28:45.640 care from reputable providers in Northern Micheo Goal. We wouldn't 0:28:45.640 --> 0:28:49.360 have organizations like the Society for Humane Abortions or the 0:28:49.440 --> 0:28:54.360 Clergy Consultation Service referring people to make a goal if 0:28:54.400 --> 0:29:00.200 these were not good providers. A young woman dies, be 0:29:00.280 --> 0:29:04.720 it as an agrest a budged abortion, and that creates 0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:07.120 this massive like, well, what the heck is going on 0:29:07.200 --> 0:29:09.680 in Mexico. We thought we had done what we could 0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:12.760 in Bifuana, but now like this has spread all across 0:29:13.240 --> 0:29:18.560 northern Mexico's border. The narrative that these awful abortion mills 0:29:18.640 --> 0:29:22.440 and quad is and making we're killing American them right 0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:26.640 was the sort of big story, and it was bringing 0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:30.320 disrepute to places like like I'll Passo right, where people 0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:35.600 in a Passo Americans and I'll Passoor ashamed embarrassed by 0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:41.080 their Mexican compatriots who were engaging in this unlawful activity. 0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:44.000 And they interviewed this one doctor, you know pass So 0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:46.840 and he says, uh, you know, we can't do anything 0:29:46.880 --> 0:29:51.880 about our Mexican neighbors. They're just lawless like this at 0:29:51.880 --> 0:29:53.960 the same time that people are racializing. May he go 0:29:54.000 --> 0:29:57.560 out this? You know, Um Sarah Weddington who goes on 0:29:57.680 --> 0:29:59.640 to r U Rovi Wade, you know, she had a 0:29:59.800 --> 0:30:02.600 Ward Mackey golf. She was in Austin at the time, 0:30:02.640 --> 0:30:06.800 getting her degree in in law, becoming an attorney. Um, 0:30:06.880 --> 0:30:09.080 but u t Austin and she's like, you know, here 0:30:09.120 --> 0:30:12.520 I am on this dusty, dirty backwards Mexican Mexican town 0:30:13.080 --> 0:30:16.120 going to get an abortion right. Like the trope of 0:30:16.160 --> 0:30:20.120 the like back alley butcher for people in in the 0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:23.120 Borderlands was mee Go like Mickey Go was where these 0:30:23.120 --> 0:30:25.719 butchers lived and this is where they did their butchery, 0:30:25.760 --> 0:30:30.880 even though there's so much information about non butchers right 0:30:30.920 --> 0:30:34.400 like actual providers who were doing incredible work, but it 0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:38.720 was they were an easy fall guy for demanding rights 0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:40.240 in the US. And that's part of the work that 0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:42.680 I that I'm writing about and talking about is the 0:30:42.720 --> 0:30:45.840 way that this, like the racialist tropes worked in the 0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:50.080 favor of like US feminist activists to be able to say, yeah, 0:30:50.120 --> 0:30:52.280 we're leaning on some of these folks to do the 0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:54.600 like dirty work of providing access to abortion, and I 0:30:54.640 --> 0:30:57.640 put dirty working quotes so that we can protect doctors 0:30:57.840 --> 0:31:01.200 in the US. But we'll also use them escapegoat to say, like, 0:31:01.240 --> 0:31:05.719 we don't want women traveling to backwards on sanitary Mehico 0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:11.600 to get abortions. We want safe, legal abortions in the US. 0:31:13.960 --> 0:31:17.240 There are doctors who could have performed abortions in the US, 0:31:17.320 --> 0:31:19.960 and some of them did, but for fear of losing 0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:24.640 their license or fear of being accosted being known as 0:31:24.720 --> 0:31:28.040 the abortion provider in their community. They're like now but 0:31:28.080 --> 0:31:31.840 I know somebody who can help you in Mexico, because 0:31:31.880 --> 0:31:35.520 we don't care about our colleagues and mahkoes about the 0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:40.160 way that they're seeing or understood in their communities. As 0:31:40.200 --> 0:31:45.080 the United States embarks on this new era of abortion criminalization, 0:31:45.800 --> 0:31:49.640 Lena says, if we're willing to pay attention, there is 0:31:49.680 --> 0:31:53.840 a lot we can learn just by taking a global perspective. 0:31:55.040 --> 0:31:57.120 One of the lessons that run the past for me 0:31:57.800 --> 0:32:02.160 is really thinking about the rb rariness of borders and 0:32:02.200 --> 0:32:07.280 how they have to not make people care, and how 0:32:07.320 --> 0:32:12.560 people constantly thwart them anyway. They're all means to control people. 0:32:13.480 --> 0:32:17.720 The thought that, like all all social justice and survival understanding, 0:32:17.760 --> 0:32:21.560 is going to emanate from the United States is absolutely incorrect. 0:32:22.320 --> 0:32:24.520 We should be thinking about how weird going to join 0:32:25.200 --> 0:32:32.000 international global coalitions for social justice in racial justice, not 0:32:32.160 --> 0:32:34.880 as the not as the ones that are bringing the knowledge, 0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:37.520 but the ones that are here to learn right. And 0:32:37.600 --> 0:32:41.360 so that to me is like a critical fundamental part 0:32:41.520 --> 0:32:45.120 of what we can learn from history. Don't We have 0:32:45.280 --> 0:32:50.920 benefited from care from other countries and other providers in 0:32:50.920 --> 0:32:54.400 the past, and we will likely lead them again. And 0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:59.680 that racialist tropes and ideologies have no there's no room 0:32:59.720 --> 0:33:06.560 for for that at this particular juncture. Once again there's 0:33:06.600 --> 0:33:11.440 pala a villa. The United States has been living in 0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:14.320 a war. They was beautiful and it was privileged in 0:33:14.400 --> 0:33:17.400 terms of autonomy for many. Still it wasn't the reality 0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:20.080 for many or stays for a while, but at least 0:33:20.080 --> 0:33:23.720 in general and the role protection had a lot of 0:33:23.760 --> 0:33:26.960 power and um. In Latin America we have been in 0:33:27.000 --> 0:33:31.520 the opposite for many years and we have been able 0:33:31.560 --> 0:33:35.080 to survive. Somehow we know from a legal point of 0:33:35.120 --> 0:33:38.080 view how to make some legal laws better when they're 0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:42.560 still very restricted. Some of them have been through international standards, 0:33:42.600 --> 0:33:45.960 the World Health Organizations, the UN standards. So so I 0:33:45.960 --> 0:33:48.440 think the activists need to look to those standards that 0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:50.560 we have been trying to create for twenty or thirty 0:33:50.640 --> 0:33:53.640 years as symbols of how you make laws. There are 0:33:53.680 --> 0:33:57.880 still very restrictive, a lot more flexible until you change everything. 0:33:58.320 --> 0:34:00.720 But then also from examples of the SASS, we have 0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:04.640 had success for the last um two years, and even 0:34:04.680 --> 0:34:08.600 in very restricted environments like All Salvador, where there is 0:34:08.640 --> 0:34:11.600 a total abortion and women in All Salvador have been 0:34:11.640 --> 0:34:15.719 criminalized for upset for emergencies for miscarriages and stilberts, which 0:34:15.760 --> 0:34:17.480 is something that we are going to see in the 0:34:17.560 --> 0:34:21.719 United States as well, and unfortunately dies a reality that 0:34:21.800 --> 0:34:24.359 we have also just celebrated the freedom of sixty five 0:34:24.360 --> 0:34:26.680 women that we were able to get out of prison. 0:34:27.200 --> 0:34:30.080 And I think this is an opportunity for the United 0:34:30.120 --> 0:34:33.760 States to say and for the activists, Okay, we haven't 0:34:34.280 --> 0:34:36.920 seen this new reality yet, but there are others who have. 0:34:37.680 --> 0:34:39.879 Let's bring it on board and common and I am 0:34:39.960 --> 0:34:42.600 started seeing a lot of that already happening, but I 0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:46.160 think it needs to be more consistence, more effectively, and 0:34:46.239 --> 0:34:52.680 more um and more openness. Right for that when we 0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:56.120 come back, what the progress these Catholic countries have made 0:34:56.600 --> 0:35:13.720 says about our own complicated relationship religion. Votes in favor 0:35:13.719 --> 0:35:21.919 of the proposals who vote will lead to the dismantling 0:35:21.960 --> 0:35:24.560 of one of the strictest anti abortion regimes in the world. 0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:27.120 Just south of the border, in one of the most 0:35:27.160 --> 0:35:30.920 Catholic countries in the world, women's rights activists have scored 0:35:31.040 --> 0:35:33.640 a major victory. This is a huge step for a 0:35:33.640 --> 0:35:37.120 widely Catholic country. Much has been made of the fact 0:35:37.200 --> 0:35:40.560 that several of the countries that have liberalized abortion laws 0:35:40.560 --> 0:35:44.520 in the past couple of years are largely Catholic. The 0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:48.279 Catholics can be anything but anti abortion seems to be 0:35:48.320 --> 0:35:52.640 a shock, but Catholics and people from all faith have 0:35:52.800 --> 0:35:58.600 been in the fight for reproductive rights all along. I 0:35:58.640 --> 0:36:01.640 am Jamie Manson and I'm president of Catholics for Choice. 0:36:02.600 --> 0:36:06.040 The dominant narrative UM that most people buy into is 0:36:06.080 --> 0:36:10.640 that all Catholics are opposed to abortion, and all Catholics think, um, 0:36:10.760 --> 0:36:14.680 life begins at conception. Uh. And so that is like 0:36:15.120 --> 0:36:18.200 the number one myth that we have to bust in 0:36:18.280 --> 0:36:21.600 our work, because in fact, abortion is very popular among 0:36:21.680 --> 0:36:24.840 Catholics in the United States, more popular actually than the 0:36:24.880 --> 0:36:28.600 general US population. Sixty percent of Catholics did not want 0:36:28.600 --> 0:36:32.200 to see Roe versus Wade struck down on Friday. Um. 0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:36.040 I've seen different number. More recent numbers say sixty of 0:36:36.120 --> 0:36:40.200 Catholics believe abortion should be legal in all our most cases. Uh. 0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:42.960 And I think one of the most surprising numbers is 0:36:43.000 --> 0:36:46.520 that h one in four abortion patients in this country 0:36:46.600 --> 0:36:50.080 is Catholic, meaning that not only did Catholic support abortion, 0:36:50.160 --> 0:36:53.879 they're having abortions at the same rate as everyone else. 0:36:53.920 --> 0:36:56.560 In this country, so abortion is part of the life 0:36:56.560 --> 0:37:01.799 of the church. Catholics for Choice has a decades long 0:37:01.920 --> 0:37:06.640 legacy of working in Latin America helping liberalize abortion laws there. 0:37:07.719 --> 0:37:11.319 But now it's the US that needs the help. We're 0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:13.759 going to bring in our sisters in Latin America who 0:37:13.800 --> 0:37:17.400 are from the Catholic for Choice UM organizations there to 0:37:17.560 --> 0:37:21.000 come and tell us what we need to know about 0:37:21.040 --> 0:37:24.919 how to live under a repressive anti abortion regime. How 0:37:24.960 --> 0:37:28.279 did you survive, how did you create networks? How did 0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:32.120 you avoid the law? Um? You know, and it is 0:37:32.160 --> 0:37:34.960 just a stunning moment for us that the people that 0:37:35.040 --> 0:37:38.680 we helped we are turning to to help us navigate us, 0:37:38.680 --> 0:37:41.279 to be our visionaries, to be our profits UM in 0:37:41.320 --> 0:37:46.239 the Road ahead. Catholics Are Choice actually really predates ROW, 0:37:46.320 --> 0:37:49.400 not formally, but UM. The women who ended up founding 0:37:49.400 --> 0:37:54.160 the organization were already organizing before ROW and then really 0:37:54.200 --> 0:37:58.799 in earnest formalized after the road decision. So the organization 0:37:59.000 --> 0:38:02.959 is UM just about fifty years old now and its 0:38:03.000 --> 0:38:05.839 purpose was really to to ask for several things. One 0:38:05.920 --> 0:38:09.000 is for conversation about abortion within the walls of the church, 0:38:09.000 --> 0:38:11.920 because there is no room even at the most liberal 0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:15.959 Catholic university, where there are other conversations about controversial things, 0:38:15.960 --> 0:38:19.400 you cannot talk about abortion. So wanting to you know, 0:38:19.440 --> 0:38:22.560 to be able to have dialogue about the issue was 0:38:22.560 --> 0:38:26.359 it was a very big, big campaign of theirs um 0:38:26.440 --> 0:38:29.640 and then to embolden the voices of Catholics who already 0:38:29.680 --> 0:38:32.520 are pro choice. And for those Catholics who don't know 0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:35.640 where they fall um in in in what camp? To 0:38:35.840 --> 0:38:37.759 educate them, you know, not to tell them what to think, 0:38:37.920 --> 0:38:41.080 but give them the resources there the church won't give them, uh, 0:38:41.120 --> 0:38:43.840 to discern what for them is a morally complex issue. 0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:49.640 In my opinion, for the bishops, this is not about babies, 0:38:49.680 --> 0:38:53.120 This is not about life. This is really about controlling 0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:58.359 women's freedom. Because there is a fundamental idea in Catholicism 0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:03.000 of gender binary uh they call it gender complimentarity. That 0:39:03.080 --> 0:39:06.120 God ordained men for a very specific role, having that 0:39:06.160 --> 0:39:09.240 they're supposed to be leaders and take authority, and women 0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:12.880 are meant to be servants and nurturers and care for 0:39:12.920 --> 0:39:17.400 the family, and our most essential vocation is motherhood. According 0:39:17.440 --> 0:39:20.839 to this theology, um Pope chump Pulled the second had 0:39:20.840 --> 0:39:23.680 a special phrase for women. He said, we had a 0:39:23.719 --> 0:39:27.480 feminine genius. And what that really means is our uterus 0:39:27.600 --> 0:39:30.920 is our ability to just state was our genius. And 0:39:31.000 --> 0:39:34.680 so this is this is so pervasive. Um. And I 0:39:34.719 --> 0:39:37.440 think this is the prime mover for these men. Again, 0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:41.759 these are ostensibly celibate, all male leadership. This is the 0:39:41.760 --> 0:39:44.800 most radical patriarchy in the world. There's a billion Catholics. 0:39:44.800 --> 0:39:48.560 They have presents in every country in the globe, in 0:39:48.640 --> 0:39:52.480 the globe, and they also have enormous power at the 0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:56.040 U N for that matter. And so they are terrified 0:39:56.080 --> 0:39:59.279 of women's power and women's freedom. And um, that is 0:39:59.320 --> 0:40:03.520 what you know, A portion is really all about. When 0:40:03.520 --> 0:40:06.200 you can control your own fertility, you have access to 0:40:06.280 --> 0:40:09.440 freedom and power. And this is the opposite of what 0:40:09.560 --> 0:40:12.759 this hierarchy wants it they it scares a life out 0:40:12.760 --> 0:40:15.400 of them. Remember, they do not ordain women. Why on 0:40:15.440 --> 0:40:17.520 earth would they want women to have access to freedom 0:40:17.560 --> 0:40:21.040 and power. And also, all of these ideas that we're 0:40:21.040 --> 0:40:26.279 hearing life begins a conception, personhood, these are all Catholic theology. 0:40:26.520 --> 0:40:30.719 These are all Catholic theological ideas that suddenly Evangelicals believe in. 0:40:30.840 --> 0:40:34.200 Suddenly Mormons believe in churches that never believed to this. 0:40:34.280 --> 0:40:37.200 Suddenly when it became politically expedient where they could have 0:40:37.280 --> 0:40:41.319 a you know, an unholy alliance. Uh. These three, these 0:40:41.360 --> 0:40:45.960 three churches Catholicism, Mormonism and Evangelicalism, they saw the political 0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:48.040 power and cloud they would get that they got this 0:40:48.239 --> 0:40:52.120 prime seat at the Republican table. Uh, it changed everything 0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:55.200 for them. And so but again, but these are these 0:40:55.239 --> 0:40:59.280 are you know, to me, very fringe Catholic ideas because 0:40:59.320 --> 0:41:02.799 most Catholics don't believe them. That are being codified into 0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:09.000 civil law. I mean it is the grossest infringement on 0:41:09.080 --> 0:41:11.640 religious freedom, I think in the history of this nation, 0:41:12.480 --> 0:41:14.840 because we have a lot of people of faith, like Jews, 0:41:14.880 --> 0:41:18.880 who not only support abortion rights, it's required in some circumstances, 0:41:19.239 --> 0:41:22.640 and so we are really infringing on religious freedom of others. 0:41:23.840 --> 0:41:28.360 In a survey done of Jews in the United States 0:41:28.400 --> 0:41:32.200 support abortion access. We go back to this value of 0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:37.759 piqua nefesh, this value that means the the importance, the 0:41:37.840 --> 0:41:42.480 value of saving a life. My name is Rabbi Kelly Levy. 0:41:42.520 --> 0:41:46.880 I am the associate Rabbi at Congregation Beth Israel in Austin, Texas, 0:41:47.440 --> 0:41:53.320 and I work with a vibrant, inclusive, social justice oriented 0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:57.200 congregation as their associate rabbi, but as a major part 0:41:57.280 --> 0:42:03.080 of the clergy team. This is where Judaism diverges from Christianity. 0:42:03.120 --> 0:42:08.160 In Judaism, we don't believe that life begins at conception. 0:42:08.239 --> 0:42:11.719 We believe that life begins at first viable breath. So 0:42:11.760 --> 0:42:15.640 as soon as a child is able to exit the 0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:18.880 womb and is able to take a first breath and 0:42:19.040 --> 0:42:22.279 is viable to take that first breath, that is when 0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:26.759 that life truly begins. So in Judaism, when it comes 0:42:26.760 --> 0:42:30.879 to abortion and it comes to the pregnant person, that 0:42:31.040 --> 0:42:35.879 individual is the life that is prioritized. And so when 0:42:35.880 --> 0:42:39.680 it comes to pekuah nafeesh, the the value of saving 0:42:39.719 --> 0:42:42.560 of life, of preserving a life, that is the life 0:42:42.600 --> 0:42:46.560 that we prioritize. So in a situation where you have 0:42:46.680 --> 0:42:52.520 a pregnant person who has either had a terrible traumatizing 0:42:52.560 --> 0:42:56.919 experience that caused them to become pregnant, or they find 0:42:56.960 --> 0:43:00.520 themselves pregnant and know that they cannot men toe or 0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:04.040 physically carry this child, or they know that they cannot 0:43:04.200 --> 0:43:07.319 care for this child after the child is born, or 0:43:07.360 --> 0:43:10.000 they know that they won't be able to endure forty 0:43:10.040 --> 0:43:14.640 plus weeks of this pregnancy. That is part of that 0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:18.480 preserving of the life of that soul. It's not about 0:43:18.480 --> 0:43:22.600 the fetus, who, according to Jewish tradition, does not have 0:43:23.000 --> 0:43:29.000 the status as a living person. The Christian theology has 0:43:29.200 --> 0:43:35.920 often taken over the conversation around faith and abortion because 0:43:36.000 --> 0:43:43.120 so many Jews are are accepting and basically requiring and 0:43:43.160 --> 0:43:46.879 demanding abortion access. It's not traditionally been something that we've 0:43:47.000 --> 0:43:51.000 organized around. That's changed in the in recent years. The 0:43:51.080 --> 0:43:54.440 National Council of Jewish Women has a scholar in residence 0:43:54.640 --> 0:43:58.920 named Rabbi Dania Ruttenberg who focuses entirely on abortion access 0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:03.640 and actually organizing Jews around this particular effort. One of 0:44:03.680 --> 0:44:07.920 the things that the Jewish world has started to change 0:44:07.920 --> 0:44:10.160 as far as the way we approach this subject is 0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:14.120 it's actually a violation of our religious freedom to not 0:44:14.239 --> 0:44:20.200 have access to abortion, because we fully support abortion access 0:44:20.239 --> 0:44:25.680 and the rights of reproductive justice, and it is actually 0:44:25.719 --> 0:44:29.560 it's actually deterring our ability to practice our faith because 0:44:30.160 --> 0:44:32.160 if you go back and look at our text, it 0:44:32.280 --> 0:44:36.600 says there are certain situations where you absolutely must provide 0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:39.919 an abortion and this goes back thousands of years, and 0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:44.920 by not allowing us that opportunity that right, we are 0:44:44.920 --> 0:44:47.800 not actually allowed to practice our religion to its fullness. 0:44:49.200 --> 0:44:52.960 I grew up in a very conservative, white Evangelical church, 0:44:53.360 --> 0:44:57.600 so I'm very familiar with a theological framework that's very 0:44:57.640 --> 0:45:01.360 cut and dry, that things are this, they're not that. 0:45:01.480 --> 0:45:05.640 God is this or God isn't. I'm Reverend Katie's, I'm 0:45:05.640 --> 0:45:08.799 an ordained Baptist minister, and I'm the CEO of the 0:45:08.880 --> 0:45:11.960 Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice or our c r C, 0:45:12.120 --> 0:45:16.799 as we fondly call it. There is a certain comfort 0:45:17.560 --> 0:45:20.320 and having a sense of security that if I simply 0:45:20.400 --> 0:45:24.680 follow these rules, then my life will be wonderful. And 0:45:24.840 --> 0:45:28.759 I subscribe to that for a long time until I 0:45:28.840 --> 0:45:32.040 had experiences that disrupted that framework and showed me that 0:45:32.440 --> 0:45:35.239 I actually didn't have the kind of certainty that I 0:45:35.280 --> 0:45:38.080 thought that I did, and that required me to do 0:45:38.120 --> 0:45:41.040 a lot of soul searching around what does it mean 0:45:41.080 --> 0:45:44.440 to be a faithful person with a different kind of 0:45:44.480 --> 0:45:50.239 theological framework that allows for nuance and complexity. So I 0:45:50.280 --> 0:45:54.120 think it's just as much about how we approach those 0:45:54.160 --> 0:45:57.919 conversations as it is the content and I really try 0:45:57.960 --> 0:46:03.080 in my work not to fall into debate. What ends 0:46:03.120 --> 0:46:06.360 up happening is if we don't talk about the real 0:46:06.480 --> 0:46:12.160 people who are being impacted, it becomes an abstract, ideological conversation. 0:46:12.640 --> 0:46:15.440 It's so wrong when we lose the focus on on 0:46:15.520 --> 0:46:18.959 the real human beings in front of us. The way 0:46:18.960 --> 0:46:22.320 that we talk about abortion, even on the pro choice side, 0:46:22.320 --> 0:46:27.280 can often be really stigmatizing. We often talk about only 0:46:27.320 --> 0:46:31.640 the most extreme cases where a person's bodily autonomy has 0:46:31.680 --> 0:46:35.919 been violated, or we talk about it as if it's 0:46:35.960 --> 0:46:40.960 always a difficult decision for people, and that those things 0:46:40.960 --> 0:46:45.800 are true, but they don't encompass the full spectrum of 0:46:45.880 --> 0:46:50.239 people's experiences. And I think talking about how abortion can 0:46:50.280 --> 0:46:53.560 be such a positive thing for people. It can be 0:46:54.040 --> 0:46:57.440 life saving for one and lots of different ways, but 0:46:57.560 --> 0:47:01.360 also it can be a catalyst for really important changes 0:47:01.400 --> 0:47:04.840 in a person's life. Abortion is a blessing. Access to 0:47:04.880 --> 0:47:08.600 abortion is a blessing. The ability to make a reproductive 0:47:09.080 --> 0:47:13.440 decision is a right and a blessing. So as I'm 0:47:13.480 --> 0:47:17.719 talking to folks who maybe are struggling, I think storytelling 0:47:17.840 --> 0:47:20.640 is really essential, and not just storytelling of other people, 0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:25.080 but really asking folks, what is your reproductive story? What 0:47:25.239 --> 0:47:29.080 is your family's reproductive story? It does not take much 0:47:29.760 --> 0:47:33.759 digging below the surface to hear painful stories of reproductive 0:47:33.800 --> 0:47:39.200 loss regarding infertility or pregnancy loss, or just someone who 0:47:39.239 --> 0:47:41.480 was never able to create the family that they wanted. 0:47:41.560 --> 0:47:46.040 There are stories of adoption that are traumatic. Everybody has 0:47:46.080 --> 0:47:48.200 a story around this, and I think that that can 0:47:48.239 --> 0:47:52.000 be a way to create that heart connection is allowing 0:47:52.040 --> 0:47:56.680 people to tell whatever their story is. There just isn't 0:47:56.680 --> 0:47:58.879 space for people to share these things, and I think 0:47:59.200 --> 0:48:02.000 the first step in feeling ourselves and our communities as 0:48:02.160 --> 0:48:07.440 just holding space for people to share. Another faith based 0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:14.719 organization focused on reproductive rights is called Sacred. I am 0:48:15.000 --> 0:48:18.640 Reverend connetitition Way. I am the faith Advocacy coordinator for 0:48:18.760 --> 0:48:22.279 Sister Song, the Woman of Color Reproductive Justice Collective. I 0:48:22.320 --> 0:48:25.759 am also the national co chair for Sacred. We are 0:48:26.400 --> 0:48:30.880 encouraging brave conversations um not just among faith leaders, but 0:48:30.960 --> 0:48:37.520 faithful people to give voice to those who actually already 0:48:37.560 --> 0:48:41.640 believe in reproductive rights, health and justice, but feel afraid 0:48:42.440 --> 0:48:45.920 of what voicing that may cause. UM. So, I feel 0:48:45.920 --> 0:48:49.279 like what Sacred really is trying to do is give 0:48:49.360 --> 0:48:53.360 people the language UM to stand firm in their faith 0:48:54.280 --> 0:49:02.040 around this subject. My lived experience UM is what brought 0:49:02.120 --> 0:49:05.000 me to this work, and that's why I do it. UM. 0:49:05.120 --> 0:49:10.080 I understand what it's like to be told that your 0:49:10.200 --> 0:49:15.160 very existence is a sin. If I don't understand anything else, 0:49:15.520 --> 0:49:20.200 theological interpretation is that is just that it is UH 0:49:21.000 --> 0:49:24.319 open to interpretation by the lens of those who read it. 0:49:24.600 --> 0:49:27.480 But the one thing that we are pretty much all 0:49:27.520 --> 0:49:31.040 clear about in terms of our traditions of love is 0:49:31.080 --> 0:49:33.080 that we are supposed to love one another, and we 0:49:33.120 --> 0:49:35.719 are supposed to be compassionate to one another, and we're 0:49:35.760 --> 0:49:38.279 not supposed to judge one another. If I don't know 0:49:38.360 --> 0:49:42.120 anything else, that much, I do know and so UM, 0:49:42.160 --> 0:49:50.799 I will always approach uh any subject from that lens 0:49:50.840 --> 0:49:54.319 of how can I be compassionate in this moment while 0:49:54.440 --> 0:49:58.160 someone is navigating UM what is best for their lives? 0:49:59.120 --> 0:50:01.200 UM and so? And I know that is a direct 0:50:01.280 --> 0:50:09.480 result of having to navigate UM being queer and black 0:50:10.120 --> 0:50:13.520 and Caribbean and a woman in a world that said 0:50:13.560 --> 0:50:19.440 that most of those things were unacceptable. Being introduced to 0:50:19.600 --> 0:50:26.759 and embracing the framework of reproductive justice really does expand 0:50:27.000 --> 0:50:32.319 the possibility of understanding the moral good of abortion. We 0:50:33.040 --> 0:50:35.760 it reproductive justice. Do believe in the human right for 0:50:35.840 --> 0:50:38.600 everyone to have a child, to not have a child, 0:50:38.960 --> 0:50:42.239 the parent the children that they have, in safe, sustainable communities, 0:50:42.600 --> 0:50:46.080 free from interpersonal and stink state sanctioned violence, and to 0:50:46.160 --> 0:50:50.480 have bodily autonomy. And if you believe in that, if 0:50:50.520 --> 0:50:56.320 you believe in those tenants, then you understand that bodily autonomy, 0:50:56.360 --> 0:50:58.319 which is what we're talking about when we're talking about 0:50:58.360 --> 0:51:02.920 making reproductive choices, for our eyes, is just as morally 0:51:03.000 --> 0:51:06.719 sound as having a child, not having a child, and 0:51:07.280 --> 0:51:10.680 raising the children that you have. It can't be separated out, 0:51:10.719 --> 0:51:14.200 it can't be made other um and the only people 0:51:14.239 --> 0:51:17.520 who benefit from it being made other are those who 0:51:17.600 --> 0:51:23.840 seek to divide for political expediency. And as Jamie Manson shared, 0:51:24.160 --> 0:51:28.120 the reproductive justice framework has also been helpful for the 0:51:28.160 --> 0:51:32.840 work Catholics for Choice does in their communities. For a 0:51:32.880 --> 0:51:36.200 lot of Catholics who have a very rich understanding of 0:51:36.239 --> 0:51:38.400 social justice because it's in our tradition and they were 0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:41.040 raised in it, that is very eye opening as well 0:51:41.360 --> 0:51:43.880 when we really put it in that context that abortion 0:51:44.000 --> 0:51:46.960 is a decision that affects the entire trajectory of a 0:51:47.000 --> 0:51:50.400 woman's life. Is not just about bodily autonomy. It's about 0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:53.560 you know, every everything, you know, the every It's so 0:51:53.640 --> 0:51:57.080 consequential for every aspect, and it intersects with almost every 0:51:57.120 --> 0:52:00.000 issue of social justice that a lot of Catholics care about. 0:52:00.440 --> 0:52:03.120 So when you put it in that context, my goodness, UM, 0:52:03.160 --> 0:52:06.399 you see the lights go on, um and you see 0:52:06.440 --> 0:52:10.279 people realizing, okay, like this, you know, like I am, 0:52:10.360 --> 0:52:14.239 I do support abortion access um and I found my 0:52:14.320 --> 0:52:19.279 place in this movement again, Reverend Katie's a I think 0:52:19.360 --> 0:52:23.399 that part of being a person of faith is the 0:52:23.440 --> 0:52:27.560 practice of hope. And I say a practice because it's 0:52:27.600 --> 0:52:31.000 not a feeling all of the time, it's a discipline. 0:52:31.080 --> 0:52:33.319 And I've been talking about hope as being something that 0:52:33.400 --> 0:52:37.759 we hold in community and not just individually. And I 0:52:37.800 --> 0:52:41.080 think what's so important about holding hope in community is 0:52:41.120 --> 0:52:43.720 that the vision needs to be informed by the people 0:52:43.719 --> 0:52:47.920 who are being most impacted by the injustice. And I 0:52:47.960 --> 0:52:51.120 also think that what the reproductive Justice framework has done 0:52:51.160 --> 0:52:55.839 for me is really identify the larger what we call 0:52:55.920 --> 0:53:00.200 white Christian nationalist political agenda that has never been used 0:53:00.200 --> 0:53:04.480 about abortion, has really been about the control of bodies 0:53:04.520 --> 0:53:07.200 and maintaining power over our bodies, and so I'm really 0:53:07.239 --> 0:53:11.200 grateful to the ways that that framework expanded my own understanding. 0:53:11.719 --> 0:53:15.279 That is not enough to only focusing on any one 0:53:15.360 --> 0:53:18.280 particular issue, but to really see it within this broader 0:53:18.320 --> 0:53:20.320 framework of just what it means to be a human 0:53:20.360 --> 0:53:26.200 being and who wants to flourish. We'll be right back. 0:53:33.760 --> 0:53:36.960 My name is Sue and I am a forty nine 0:53:37.000 --> 0:53:43.280 year old woman from Wisconsin, and I've spent my career 0:53:43.280 --> 0:53:47.920 in ministry in various different capacities. I am now a 0:53:47.960 --> 0:53:54.920 single mother of four children. I'm divorced, and yeah, it's 0:53:54.920 --> 0:54:00.560 probably about it. So I was twenty one. I was 0:54:00.880 --> 0:54:05.040 in graduate school at a seminary, and I was young 0:54:05.160 --> 0:54:07.839 from my class because I had didn't high school three years. 0:54:08.320 --> 0:54:14.279 I became involved with a fellow classmate who was there 0:54:14.320 --> 0:54:16.319 as a second career. He had been an attorney. He 0:54:16.400 --> 0:54:20.000 was thirty six years old, UM and going through a divorce, 0:54:21.000 --> 0:54:26.200 and I we I thought I was madly in love. 0:54:26.520 --> 0:54:29.520 He claimed he was madly in love. And we talked 0:54:29.560 --> 0:54:33.640 about marriage from the very beginning of our relationship and kids. 0:54:34.360 --> 0:54:37.520 UM big part because he told me that he was 0:54:37.560 --> 0:54:41.319 getting divorced because his wife didn't want children and he 0:54:41.400 --> 0:54:44.920 really wanted kids. So that was a huge part of 0:54:44.960 --> 0:54:51.279 that um. Probably about eight months inter relationship, it got 0:54:51.360 --> 0:54:57.200 a little rocky and found out, probably I was right 0:54:57.239 --> 0:55:05.120 around Thanksgiving that I was pregnant, and his immediate response was, well, 0:55:05.160 --> 0:55:08.400 you don't, you have to do And I was floored 0:55:08.400 --> 0:55:13.200 by that. I thought, well, we've been talking about getting married, 0:55:13.200 --> 0:55:16.799 we'll get married, and what is you know, where did 0:55:16.840 --> 0:55:20.600 that come from. I was just blindsided by that. Immediately 0:55:20.600 --> 0:55:23.960 started saying, you know, if your parents find out, they 0:55:24.000 --> 0:55:29.680 will just disown you. They will never let you live 0:55:29.719 --> 0:55:34.719 that down. So there was just this immediate separating me 0:55:34.800 --> 0:55:37.160 from my family, from my friends, from my loved ones. 0:55:38.160 --> 0:55:44.160 And we went to a planned parenthood and had that's 0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:47.640 where I had my initial pregnancy tests where they confirmed that, 0:55:48.400 --> 0:55:53.480 and so I had the abortion. It was a Saturday morning, 0:55:53.680 --> 0:55:59.920 was January six, and he got me back to his apartment, 0:56:00.040 --> 0:56:02.760 took care of me for a day, and then dropped 0:56:02.800 --> 0:56:06.160 me back off at my dorm and I think just thought, 0:56:06.840 --> 0:56:09.799 boom boom and wash his hands with me. I never 0:56:09.840 --> 0:56:13.719 told my parents. They knew something was wrong, but I 0:56:13.840 --> 0:56:17.480 just I still lived in that they'll be bad, they'll 0:56:17.560 --> 0:56:20.320 down me kind of thing. A couple of months later, 0:56:21.040 --> 0:56:26.000 he sent me a letter on this stationary letterhead from 0:56:26.200 --> 0:56:31.040 his law firm, demanding that I pay him back for 0:56:31.560 --> 0:56:36.200 the abortion. And at that point I just I didn't 0:56:36.200 --> 0:56:40.719 know where to turn. I just felt lost. And I 0:56:40.800 --> 0:56:46.200 went to our campus pastor, who it was fantastic and said, 0:56:47.239 --> 0:56:49.319 you know what would help you the most right now? 0:56:49.760 --> 0:56:52.440 And I said, I think telling my parents. And I 0:56:52.560 --> 0:56:56.399 drove to my parents that night and they were fantastic, 0:56:56.719 --> 0:57:01.719 and they they, yeah, it's loved me. And you know, 0:57:01.760 --> 0:57:04.440 I asked him at that point, what would you have 0:57:04.520 --> 0:57:07.440 wanted me to do? And my mom, who I had 0:57:07.480 --> 0:57:09.479 never thought in a million years would say this, said 0:57:10.920 --> 0:57:14.279 exactly what you did. You have a life ahead of you. 0:57:15.040 --> 0:57:19.920 So that was sort of the beginning of my I 0:57:19.960 --> 0:57:25.600 think owning it, acknowledging and owning it. The school the 0:57:25.640 --> 0:57:30.560 attorney made a deal with him basically I said, I'll 0:57:30.640 --> 0:57:34.400 give him the money, but and he could never contact me, 0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:38.640 sort of an agreement, so I had no contact with 0:57:38.720 --> 0:57:47.479 him after that. Um, yeah, I think. You know, there's 0:57:47.560 --> 0:57:49.480 long periods of time where you are you don't think 0:57:49.520 --> 0:57:51.320 about it at all. I have an eighteen year old 0:57:51.360 --> 0:57:54.520 daughter now, so then now I think about it because 0:57:54.560 --> 0:57:59.080 she's completely riled up about the last few days and 0:58:00.560 --> 0:58:05.280 couldn't be prouder for starters. But I think young women 0:58:05.320 --> 0:58:10.200 that I've known along the way, I would never I 0:58:10.200 --> 0:58:12.160 would never encourage it. But at the same time, I 0:58:12.160 --> 0:58:15.600 would never discourage I think it's such an individual thing, 0:58:16.440 --> 0:58:18.600 so for any of us to make a blanket statement 0:58:18.600 --> 0:58:22.520 of right or wrong, none of us have that right 0:58:22.680 --> 0:58:27.360 to do that, or to say one way or another 0:58:27.360 --> 0:58:31.080 for each person. I think, at the end of the day, 0:58:32.680 --> 0:58:36.720 the shame I think I probably did have shame, which 0:58:36.800 --> 0:58:41.080 I think was completely unfounded. What I did was completely legal. 0:58:41.160 --> 0:58:44.800 There was nothing illegal about what I did. But then 0:58:44.840 --> 0:58:49.560 why why don't I talk about it more freely? And 0:58:52.400 --> 0:58:55.080 I hate that there's that stigma for anybody to not 0:58:55.920 --> 0:58:58.040 be able to say I did this, because at the 0:58:58.120 --> 0:59:01.080 end of the day, I've ever thought of it as 0:59:04.560 --> 0:59:07.000 I killed a human. I've never thought of it that way. 0:59:07.200 --> 0:59:11.760 Is I don't believe that whole life beginning at conception, 0:59:12.760 --> 0:59:14.720 but at the end of the day, it was a 0:59:14.840 --> 0:59:20.840 very life giving part of my life. And I think 0:59:22.240 --> 0:59:26.320 for so many women like, how can you not say 0:59:26.360 --> 0:59:29.840 it was to have that second chance and to be 0:59:29.920 --> 0:59:34.200 able to go live your best life. I think it's 0:59:35.680 --> 0:59:41.479 that was probably my first experience of never assume what's 0:59:41.480 --> 0:59:47.000 going on in someone else's life. I think, um it 0:59:47.080 --> 0:59:50.040 has made me a much more compassionate person, especially in 0:59:50.400 --> 0:59:56.200 my ministry roles of who are we to judge? And 0:59:56.240 --> 1:00:09.680 I think that's a huge part of it. Right, we're 1:00:09.720 --> 1:00:12.480 almost at the end of this series and wanted to 1:00:12.520 --> 1:00:16.440 hear what you think. You can call this number one 1:00:16.720 --> 1:00:21.000 eight four four for seven nine seven eight eight three 1:00:21.600 --> 1:00:24.680 and leave us a message about how you're feeling, or 1:00:24.720 --> 1:00:28.680 perhaps actions you're taking, or even things you've learned or 1:00:28.720 --> 1:00:32.760 want to share about abortion. Your message might be included 1:00:32.840 --> 1:00:37.040 in a future episode. Again, that number is one eight 1:00:37.080 --> 1:00:44.400 four four for seven nine seven eight eight three. Abortion 1:00:44.600 --> 1:00:48.320 The Body Politic is executive produced by me Katie Couric 1:00:48.800 --> 1:00:52.840 and was created by small team led by our intrepid 1:00:53.080 --> 1:00:58.640 supervising producer Lauren Hansen. Editing and sound designed by Derrick Clements, 1:00:59.080 --> 1:01:02.880 research by knee A Perlman. Production and editing help for 1:01:02.920 --> 1:01:08.160 this episode from Mary do Translation help from Carlo Martinez 1:01:08.360 --> 1:01:12.640 and Marcy Deepina, and a special thanks to case Um 1:01:12.760 --> 1:01:16.120 producers Courtney Litz and Adriana Fasio.