Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me Josh. For this select I've chosen
Speaker 1: our twenty seventeen episode on Dictators, how much the world
Speaker 1: can change in just a few years. We mentioned a
Speaker 1: couple of times in this episode that authoritarianism was on
Speaker 1: the wane and that it was being replaced by good
Speaker 1: old democracy. I'm sad in the report that has changed
Speaker 1: in recent years as authoritarianism has come barreling back and
Speaker 1: in some surprising places. Listen to this episode to find
Speaker 1: out why that's a bad thing.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's
Speaker 1: Charles w Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there, and it's
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: Jerry our benevolent dictator.
Speaker 1: Yeah for real, she's got those lis that she wears
Speaker 1: all the time in sunglasses.
Speaker 2: I was just commenting and I thought, this is a
Speaker 2: pretty good article here from How Stuff Works.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I've heard that before.
Speaker 2: Who wrote this one? Do you have that on there?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: I always have it on there, and you didn't have
Speaker 2: it today.
Speaker 1: It might be a Shane of Freeman joint.
Speaker 2: I think it may be that sounds familiar. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 2: it's a good one. Yeah, and here it is.
Speaker 1: That was word for word my intro that you just stole.
Speaker 2: Well, my mind reading classes have been paying off, chuck.
Speaker 1: Yes, have you ever lived under a dictatorship?
Speaker 2: Not exactly.
Speaker 1: No, No, I haven't either. Yeah, and I think we
Speaker 1: should kind of consider ourselves fairly lucky. Sure, because it
Speaker 1: turns out that not only were we born in a
Speaker 1: country that most people would argue is not a dictatorship,
Speaker 1: although you can find plenty of websites that argue that
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, it's been for the last several years,
Speaker 1: possibly even for the most part, most people would say
Speaker 1: it's not a dictatorship. So we were lucky to be
Speaker 1: born in a country that isn't a dictatorship. But not
Speaker 1: only that, we're lucky to be born in a time
Speaker 1: when dictatorships have become fairly hard to find, comparatively speaking,
Speaker 1: because dictatorships were basically the way that people were ruled
Speaker 1: for thousands of years. Yeah, up until very recent times,
Speaker 1: around the time of the Enlightenment, when the idea of
Speaker 1: individual liberties and the protection of those individual liberties became
Speaker 1: kind of widespread.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this article kind of starts off. I thought
Speaker 2: it was I thought it was interesting that you don't often. Well,
Speaker 2: first of all, the word dictator is just one like
Speaker 2: the one who dictates the thing. It's kind of funny
Speaker 2: when you break down the actual definition. Yeah, you're like, oh, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: Then it's the guy who paces back and fourth in
Speaker 1: front of the desk while somebody's typing what he's saying.
Speaker 2: Take dictation. Yeah, but they don't call themselves that very often,
Speaker 2: although it has happened before we get into the history.
Speaker 2: It's we should point out that like Castro and Saddam Hussein,
Speaker 2: you never hear them say I'm dictator as a bad rap,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm the dictator Fidel Castro.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like how propaganda got turned into pr Yeah, they.
Speaker 2: Will call themselves premier or president or chancellor or furer
Speaker 2: boss of you. Kim Jong Ill holds three titles, and
Speaker 2: I think he's looking for a fourth and fifth like
Speaker 2: as we.
Speaker 1: Speak, well, he's in the ground his son.
Speaker 2: Oh wait, I got this too confused, right, Yeah, well
Speaker 2: he held three titles, Yes he did. I imagine, Well,
Speaker 2: his son probably holds four. Then he probably found that fourth.
Speaker 2: Just made one up.
Speaker 1: Did you know though, that there's like a you know,
Speaker 1: the Kim Jong un is the supreme leader of North Korea,
Speaker 1: but he actually technically shares power with two other officials
Speaker 1: as well. They have basically a triumvirt going there. That
Speaker 1: was news to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Those guys are called Keep Quiet one and Keep
Speaker 2: Quiet two.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was just looking up some of his greatest
Speaker 1: hits recently. Yeah, and Kim Jong un alone has already
Speaker 1: started to amass several but one was a North Korean leader,
Speaker 1: pretty high ranking official was executed with an anti aircraft
Speaker 1: machine gun for slouching or falling asleep at a meeting.
Speaker 2: Holy cow, right, but do you hear stuff like imagine
Speaker 2: what that would do to a body?
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god. But you should take that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff with a grain of salt, especially when it's
Speaker 1: coming out of North Korea, because we have really virtually
Speaker 1: no idea what's going on day to day over there,
Speaker 1: even big events like that. Even if it is true
Speaker 1: that that guy was executed with an anti aircraft gun,
Speaker 1: whether or not it was for falling asleep during a
Speaker 1: meeting or something like that, remains to be seen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're saying, take any information with a grain of salt.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it's good advice. Thanks.
Speaker 2: But as Shana I believe. Shana points out that dictators
Speaker 2: do have some things in common, and one of the
Speaker 2: big ones is is almost one hundred percent of the
Speaker 2: time a dictator doesn't come to power through an election.
Speaker 2: They're usually not freely elected to that position.
Speaker 1: No, but they have been. They have been, yeah, pretty
Speaker 1: prominently like Hitler.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well he was an electored though. Wasn't he named chancellor?
Speaker 1: Yes, by the elected president though, right, but he still
Speaker 1: wasn't elected. No, I guess that's true. Okay, fine, well.
Speaker 2: Let's get into history then.
Speaker 1: All right, so you say dictator's got a bad it's
Speaker 1: gotten a bad rap over the years, right.
Speaker 2: As far as calling yourself that, I think so.
Speaker 1: But it officially originally and I couldn't. I saw a
Speaker 1: couple of references to Greece. But it seems to be Rome,
Speaker 1: classic Rome, classic Rome. Yeah, trips coming into the party
Speaker 1: and everybody's like, that's classic room.
Speaker 2: He tried to walk through that screen door it wasn't open.
Speaker 1: So classical Rome. How about that? It seems to be
Speaker 1: an invention of classical Rome. Right. There was a station
Speaker 1: called dictator. There was an office basically, and in ancient
Speaker 1: Rome the leadership was held by two men called councils,
Speaker 1: and they were equally powerful from what I understand, Consuls
Speaker 1: council Console. Okay, sure, right, And when something went down
Speaker 1: and stuff hit the fan, the Romans had a tradition
Speaker 1: of appointing one of the councils dictator, which is basically
Speaker 1: an emergency investment of unparalleled power into this one person.
Speaker 1: And the whole thinking behind it was when you were
Speaker 1: faced with an emergency. See, when the state was faced
Speaker 1: with an emergency, you needed somebody who could basically get
Speaker 1: stuff done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like a single voice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it didn't have to go to the Senate to
Speaker 1: ask anything, didn't have to go worry about making the
Speaker 1: wrong move. The dictator couldn't be held criminally liable for
Speaker 1: their decisions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, didn't have to worry about not being invited to
Speaker 2: the other consuls Christmas party the next year.
Speaker 1: Right, the other council wanted to be invited to the
Speaker 1: dictators Christmas party. That's right. So there was an investment
Speaker 1: of these emergency powers in this one person. And usually
Speaker 1: I saw one year. This article says it lasted for
Speaker 1: six months, and then the dictator would be like, wow,
Speaker 1: that was a while ride. I'm going back to my
Speaker 1: normal life. The rebellion has been quelled or the siege
Speaker 1: is over, something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And interestingly, there were a few rules. They couldn't
Speaker 2: be held legally responsible for their actions, right, big one
Speaker 2: It says, couldn't be in an office longer than six months,
Speaker 2: although I think I think they were there to handle
Speaker 2: the situation as kind of as long as that took. Yeah,
Speaker 2: for the most part.
Speaker 1: But there were also guys who are like, whoa, I
Speaker 1: like the feel of this. Yeah, I'm not giving this up.
Speaker 1: And they'll say, well you have to, we say, and
Speaker 1: then they said, well I'm the dictator and they said
Speaker 1: we hadn't thought this all the way through.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, they could change Roman law and
Speaker 2: the constitution. They couldn't use public money and less other
Speaker 2: than what the Senate said you could use it for.
Speaker 2: So they supposedly still and these are the official rules,
Speaker 2: you know, as we see coming up here. People bent
Speaker 2: these rules and they couldn't leave Italy was the last one.
Speaker 1: Oh, this is a good one. And they would have
Speaker 1: like Colombo come in and deliver that last bit we look,
Speaker 1: just don't leave Italy for a while.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's your Colombo impression. Yeah, he sounded just like
Speaker 2: Josh Clark.
Speaker 1: Thought it was spot on.
Speaker 2: So this kind of happened here and there until about
Speaker 2: two two BC, and then about one hundred years after
Speaker 2: that gentleman named Lucius Cornelius Sulla. I love all these
Speaker 2: Roman dictators sound like either seventies like black exploitation movie
Speaker 2: stars or Roman gladiators. Sure, so he was appointed dictator
Speaker 2: without a term limit and didn't have these restrictions, and
Speaker 2: so this sort of changed the game from here on out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he actually wanted Caesar dead. So Caesar ran
Speaker 1: off and joined the army Julius Caesar, I should say,
Speaker 1: and just basically laid low until Sulla died. And then
Speaker 1: Caesar came back and he was appointed counsel and then
Speaker 1: dictator himself. He succeeded Sola, right, Yes, and Caesar is
Speaker 1: very well known to be a dictator. But he actually,
Speaker 1: if you look at the stuff he did, he was
Speaker 1: a friend to the people. He forgave debts among.
Speaker 2: The benevolent dictator pretty much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, among the middle and lower classes. He improved infrastructure,
Speaker 1: He he basically went to bat for the lower classes,
Speaker 1: which threatened the elite because he made him immensely popular.
Speaker 1: Plus he was a dictator, so he actually created a
Speaker 1: he staged to coup to become a dictator, right, to
Speaker 1: gain power.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which we'll talk about a little more.
Speaker 1: And then a coup was plotted against him and he
Speaker 1: was assassinated by the ruling elite of the Senate.
Speaker 2: On my birthday. Yeah, well a long time before my birthday,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Back in nineteen seventy one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we've tossed out benevolent dictator a couple
Speaker 2: of times, kidding around, but that's a real term, and
Speaker 2: that generally means a dictator who for the most part,
Speaker 2: isn't just in it for themselves and they are trying
Speaker 2: to make things better for the people.
Speaker 1: Right, But it depends on your perspective.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So, like the ruling elite found him very threatening, they
Speaker 1: would not have considered him benevolent at all. Right, But
Speaker 1: like say, the average plebeian would have been like, I
Speaker 1: love Caesar. Yeah, give me some more of the coins
Speaker 1: with his face on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean followers of Castro still after his death
Speaker 2: say he was a benevolent dictator, sure, but again people say, no,
Speaker 2: it's perspective, it's a subjective term.
Speaker 1: Basically.
Speaker 2: Napoleon actually he came to power again like many dictators,
Speaker 2: in a state of emergency, and he was actually a
Speaker 2: benevolent dictator in a sense because he did a lot
Speaker 2: of great things for a while for the people.
Speaker 1: Right. He was extremely popular. Yeah, he was undefeated at
Speaker 1: the time that he rose to power. He was appointed
Speaker 1: counsel and then he said, you know what, let's go
Speaker 1: a little further that I'm going to call myself emperor.
Speaker 1: And they said, oh, okay, Napoleon, what could possibly go
Speaker 1: wrong with that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, first he was named consul. Then he was like,
Speaker 2: I think consul for life has a better ring to it.
Speaker 2: And then that wasn't enough, so he's like, let's just
Speaker 2: shorten that. Like you said, though, he was super popular
Speaker 2: because he was undefeated as a military leader. He balanced
Speaker 2: the budget, he reformed government, he wrote the civil law,
Speaker 2: which a lot of his is still around today in France.
Speaker 1: Yeah, civil law, right, not too bad. He had a
Speaker 1: lasting impact, for sure, he did. But again again to
Speaker 1: call him benevolent. If you remember a parliament who was
Speaker 1: thrown out of one of the windows of parliament. Right,
Speaker 1: he took over, You probably wouldn't be like, you're so benevolent. Right.
Speaker 2: He also controlled had an iron thumb on the press,
Speaker 2: He controlled every fative government. He had a spies working
Speaker 2: for him. So it's not like he wasn't just you know,
Speaker 2: Buds of the Clown.
Speaker 1: No, Boz of the Clown was super shady. No. If
Speaker 1: you put all that together, though, Chuck, you get the
Speaker 1: impression of why historians considered Napoleon the first modern dictator.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He checked basically every box there was. He had it
Speaker 1: figured out.
Speaker 2: He drew new boxes and checked those.
Speaker 1: Right, he said, all dictators to follow, here's your box.
Speaker 1: I just looked down at your notes and I want
Speaker 1: to show you something. I think we should take a break.
Speaker 1: But before then, okay, Chuck, I think you should see this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So in this article on dictators from How Stuff Works,
Speaker 1: there's a sidebar is what they're called in web print parlance. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just a little extra bit, and the title of the
Speaker 1: subbar is Darth Dictator.
Speaker 2: That's all we need to say.
Speaker 1: And it talks about Emperor Palpatine in his rise. And
Speaker 1: Chuck had his xt out ye and I independently Xi
Speaker 1: migne out as well. So we won't be talking about
Speaker 1: that today, everybody.
Speaker 2: No, but let's do take that break and we'll discuss
Speaker 2: that in private, so you don't get to know about it,
Speaker 2: and we'll be right back.
Speaker 1: Definitely should now, Lars Chuck and Ryan.
Speaker 2: Sk All, Right, so we're back. We talked about one
Speaker 2: of the things that dictators had in common is they
Speaker 2: generally aren't elected in it like a fair election. They
Speaker 2: are usually ruling autocracies. A lot of times they have
Speaker 2: what's called the totalitarian regime.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should talk about that.
Speaker 2: That's a big one. That means you, like you were
Speaker 2: in control of all the news and all the media
Speaker 2: that gets out about everything.
Speaker 1: Right, So there's a lot of confusion over the difference
Speaker 1: between authoritarianism and totalitarianism. And a totalitarian regime is authoritarian,
Speaker 1: but not all authoritarian regimes are totalitarian. Yeah. An authoritarian
Speaker 1: regime is where the government is headed by one single leader. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: there's no parliament, there's no courts, there's no nothing that
Speaker 1: the that leader doesn't either control or just doesn't exist
Speaker 1: to counter that leader's decisions. A totalitarian regime is like
Speaker 1: you were saying.
Speaker 2: I think you're missing in the eye there.
Speaker 1: They could. It's like deletrious. They control everything, not just
Speaker 1: the government. They control the social aspects of life in
Speaker 1: that country. They control the economy of that country, they
Speaker 1: control the media, they control everything. It's totalitarian.
Speaker 2: Personal freedoms might be vanquished, might be there might be police,
Speaker 2: secret police, there might be spies spying on citizens. It's
Speaker 2: not a good way to live.
Speaker 1: No, And also you will probably be encouraged that as
Speaker 1: a citizen, to spy on your fellow citizens, because authoritarian
Speaker 1: regimes quickly learn that if you have a large population,
Speaker 1: it's kind of tough and very expensive to keep tabs
Speaker 1: on everybody. So if you have a secret police going
Speaker 1: around and people are aware that there is a secret police,
Speaker 1: to behave themselves more. And if you can get your
Speaker 1: citizens to kind of keep an eye on one another,
Speaker 1: everybody's gonna behave even further. That's a terrible way to live.
Speaker 2: Well, And you know what, Like it sounds like a
Speaker 2: totalitarian ruler would be. I bet there's a lot of
Speaker 2: paranoi that goes along with that. Like when you're in
Speaker 2: that kind of position, Oh, if you're the ruler, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not just like rule everything. So it's all good.
Speaker 2: Like at that point, you don't know who to trust you, right,
Speaker 2: you're probably always looking over your shoulder, you know. It's
Speaker 2: not like why bother with all that? Right, Like you
Speaker 2: know it's gonna end badly.
Speaker 1: Just kickback and light of dooby instead? Why bother with
Speaker 1: all that?
Speaker 2: Many times there they foster what's known as a cult
Speaker 2: of personality, and this is a big one. Yeah, if
Speaker 2: you went into and saw Saddam Hussein's Iraq, or you
Speaker 2: go to North Korea or in the times of like
Speaker 2: Lenin and Stalin, you're going to see a lot of
Speaker 2: posters and statues of these leaders everywhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, you're taught that the leader is basically
Speaker 1: the state.
Speaker 2: Who is this the leader?
Speaker 1: Right, and the state is the most important thing. But
Speaker 1: the state is personified by the leader. And sometimes they'll
Speaker 1: even go so far as the state by the way,
Speaker 1: the leader is descended directly from God. Yeah, so go
Speaker 1: make a painting of a kid, right, and we're going
Speaker 1: to put it up in the town square.
Speaker 2: Who was the one who had the statue rotated to
Speaker 2: face the sun?
Speaker 1: He was the head of Turkmenistan. He changed his name
Speaker 1: when he took over in nineteen ninety one. His birth
Speaker 1: name was Supermarat Niyazov, but he changed his name to Turkmenbashi,
Speaker 1: and then he started naming everything in Turkmenistan Turkmenbashi, including
Speaker 1: the month of January. But he created that statue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he had the golden statue rotated to always
Speaker 2: face the sun.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he was always facing the sun. And he said,
Speaker 1: read that quote, man, that quote is awesome.
Speaker 2: Oh right, he said, quote. I'm personally against seeing my
Speaker 2: pictures and statues in the streets, but it's what the
Speaker 2: people want.
Speaker 1: We got that, I think from an ode list.
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, we'll probably pepper in more of those, Okay,
Speaker 2: But I mean, I hope this drives home the point
Speaker 2: that these totalitarian dictators, they're narcissists, their megalomaniacs. They are
Speaker 2: obviously paranoid, otherwise they wouldn't need to rule with an
Speaker 2: iron fist. And yeah, it's it's not a good way
Speaker 2: to run a country. Like I said, it always ends badly.
Speaker 2: I guess to get caught up in the power and
Speaker 2: they don't see what history has taught us time and
Speaker 2: time again.
Speaker 1: I wish we knew what it was because you can
Speaker 1: look around, especially in the world today and see country
Speaker 1: after country after country sliding down that rabbit hole.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a mental disorder on their part, I think.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't just have to be there, doesn't just
Speaker 1: have to be like a single leader. Like even liberal
Speaker 1: democracies are starting to slide down that hole where like
Speaker 1: they want all the information possible on everybody and ultimately
Speaker 1: to keep control. You know, but is it based on
Speaker 1: fear or is it based on paranoia, or is it
Speaker 1: based on that desire to hang on to power or
Speaker 1: what Witch's brew? Of all those things, is it that
Speaker 1: creates that? Why do we keep doing it over and
Speaker 1: over and over again. Yeah, because it always is the
Speaker 1: it's the it's the death knell for a civilization. When
Speaker 1: it's when the leadership starts doing that, it's unsustainable.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But and we'll talk a little bit about how
Speaker 2: they end, but it always is badly. Like you see
Speaker 2: like Saddam Hussein and power like in these military uniforms,
Speaker 2: and then you see this like sad old man pulled
Speaker 2: out of a fox hole.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks like she's washed up on Gilligan's Island
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: Like that, or Noriega like wasting away in prison, like
Speaker 2: begging to get out in a wheelchair.
Speaker 1: And I would like to know the story behind that,
Speaker 1: because Noega, Yeah, Panama on the UA, we're pretty good friends.
Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden, the US invades, and now
Speaker 1: Manuel Noriega is in prison in Miami and has been
Speaker 1: for thirty years. Them went down that prison, is he Oh,
Speaker 1: that's right, and then they transferred him to uh.
Speaker 2: Well outside the Panama Canal. Ironically, Oh really, yeah, he's
Speaker 2: in some prison there. He's like in a wheelchair and
Speaker 2: in his early eighties and just yeah, not doing so hot.
Speaker 1: But he served his whole sentence I think in Miami,
Speaker 1: and then they transferred him to Panama to phil to
Speaker 1: carry out another sentence down there. Oh really yeah, wow, yeah,
Speaker 1: but something went down that I don't know about. I'm
Speaker 1: intensely curious to know. If anybody knows out there, tell me.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you could find that up pretty easy, right.
Speaker 1: Apparently not.
Speaker 2: I was just kidding. I bet it's highly guarded secret.
Speaker 1: You think, even after all these years, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Noriega had motor he was a motormouth. I'm sure he
Speaker 1: told everybody who'd listened.
Speaker 2: Uh, well, we mentioned Hitler earlier. He, like you said,
Speaker 2: although not elected, was legally installed. He was appointed chancellor
Speaker 2: by President Paul von Hindenberg, and then once Hindenburg died,
Speaker 2: Hitler said, you know what, there's this German word furor
Speaker 2: that means leader, and he went, why don't we just
Speaker 2: make that my new title, which is because we don't
Speaker 2: really need a president and a chancellor. I can be
Speaker 2: both dudes, and then eventually I'll just kill myself in
Speaker 2: a bunker.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Another I'd say sad end, but just pitiful end.
Speaker 1: You know, that's a great word for.
Speaker 2: Sad indicates that, you know what I mean. I don't
Speaker 2: have to over explain that due out.
Speaker 1: So but Hitler he came to power legitimately. So did
Speaker 1: Saddam Hussein. Actually he was the general of the Iraqi
Speaker 1: Army and vice president, and then as the president came,
Speaker 1: I think he fell ill. Saddam Hussein started to take
Speaker 1: on more and more power and finally was just like
Speaker 1: I'm president forever now, okay, And I think that's the case.
Speaker 1: The point that this article is making is that there's
Speaker 1: a number of different ways a dictator can come to power.
Speaker 1: They can come to power and a power vacuum. They
Speaker 1: can come to power and a coup, which we'll talk about.
Speaker 1: They can come to power democratically. But if it's the
Speaker 1: kind of person who wants to rule unfettered, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: they come they know how to basically work the populace
Speaker 1: and the circumstances are right, you know, like maybe there's
Speaker 1: fear of outsiders coming your way, or the economy's bad
Speaker 1: or something like that, then you can conceivably consolidate your
Speaker 1: power and turn whatever situation into a dictatorship.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's more it's based on the person and
Speaker 1: the circumstances that the nation is in when that person
Speaker 1: grabs power than it is on how they actually get
Speaker 1: into power.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and whether or not the current leader just happens
Speaker 2: like be out of town or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's another big one too.
Speaker 2: Sometimes. Yeah, that's just well, let's go ahead and talk about coups,
Speaker 2: should we? Okay, sure, So coup is There are different
Speaker 2: kinds of coup or coup d'eta, But a coup is
Speaker 2: different than a revolution in that there is it's generally
Speaker 2: a smaller affair. It's not some big mass uprising of people.
Speaker 2: It's a dude gets a smallish band of his military
Speaker 2: cohorts together and like we were talking about, either someone
Speaker 2: is sick or they're dying, or they're just out of
Speaker 2: the country on business, right, and they come back and
Speaker 2: they're like, you're not in charge anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry to tell you. Yeah, And they're like, man,
Speaker 1: they discount of this dishwasher is not worth leaving the
Speaker 1: country for over this. Uh.
Speaker 2: It can be Coups can be very bloody and violent,
Speaker 2: but they don't have to be. In fact, I think
Speaker 2: a lot of times they're not violent.
Speaker 1: No, there's a term of bloodless coup.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's basically a couple of the things that make coups,
Speaker 1: uh or is it just coup like you were saying,
Speaker 1: there's no s.
Speaker 2: No, there's an s.
Speaker 1: Is it silent?
Speaker 2: I don't know that.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna go with coups, Okay. A couple of
Speaker 1: the hallmarks of coups that you were saying, like they're
Speaker 1: they're not popular uprisings. It's a small elite group that
Speaker 1: decided to do it, usually the higher ups in the military. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And they can be bloodless, where it can just be
Speaker 1: like you're not in charge any longer you were out
Speaker 1: of the country, stay out of the country. We're putting
Speaker 1: you in exile. Right. They can be bloody, especially if
Speaker 1: the person who's being deposed has a lot of loyalty
Speaker 1: in the military as well. Yeah, then it can turn
Speaker 1: pretty pretty bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I get the feeling that a lot of
Speaker 2: times the coup isn't attempted unless they feel like they
Speaker 2: have the support to pull it off.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, look at Turkey or the people who
Speaker 1: tried that coup like just a few months back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true. I don't know what happened to them. I
Speaker 1: think Airdwan said like the people were going to be punished,
Speaker 1: but not necessarily executed, But I don't know if that's
Speaker 1: true or not. That's another thing that can make a
Speaker 1: coup bloody is that it can fail and then the
Speaker 1: people who are carrying out the coup get executed, or
Speaker 1: it can succeed, and sometimes, just for good measure, the
Speaker 1: people carrying out the coup execute the former president, which
Speaker 1: was the case in Peru with Pinochet. Oh sorry Chile, Yeah, Chile,
Speaker 1: where Pinochet took over because apparently the parliament asked the
Speaker 1: military to get rid of the old guy. Salvador, A
Speaker 1: Andde and they said, all right, fine, we'll do it,
Speaker 1: and then they executed A and D.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a coup doesn't always mean a dictator comes
Speaker 2: right in either. Sometimes a coup can just be temporary
Speaker 2: until they can elect a new national leader. Right, But
Speaker 2: it's just basically, uh, just a very small overthrowing of
Speaker 2: the current government.
Speaker 1: All right, that's all, So you want to take another break, Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it, okay. Definitely large trials of each.
Speaker 3: I asked, all right, we're back.
Speaker 2: What's a junta?
Speaker 1: Well, it's related to the Jacama root Hikkama.
Speaker 2: No, that's not true at all. And I didn't really
Speaker 2: know this, but I've heard a military junta.
Speaker 1: Well you know it's junta, is it really? Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: how I was making that joke. Okay, I wasn't sure
Speaker 1: because I called Hikkama jama Ya. Are you sure it's
Speaker 1: not Jacama?
Speaker 2: You sure it's not junta?
Speaker 1: I asked, it is? It's a military junta.
Speaker 2: So the junta is is almost like a dictatorship by committee.
Speaker 2: And you find these a lot in Latin America, and
Speaker 2: it's a committee of military leaders who essentially act like
Speaker 2: a dictator.
Speaker 1: Right, there's instead of one leader, yes, maybe three four
Speaker 1: top ranking military. Usually there's a If you like Fiji
Speaker 1: brand water, you're supporting a military hunt when you buy that.
Speaker 1: As of two thousand and six, the military rose up
Speaker 1: in Fiji and over through the government and now Military
Speaker 1: Hunt runs the show there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a bad scene over there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thailand apparently had a coup that same year.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they followed the typical coup where the president left
Speaker 1: the country. If I were a president and I were
Speaker 1: on shaky ground.
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1: Nope, I'd be like I'm sitting right here.
Speaker 2: You need scarface. You would just be like in your
Speaker 2: office with submachine guns. Right well, probably not the mountain
Speaker 2: of cocaine.
Speaker 1: Right well, I could because I'd be a dictator. No
Speaker 1: one could say anything, do any want. But there was
Speaker 1: one other thing that's really important too. Not only would
Speaker 1: I not leave the country, I wouldn't even leave the
Speaker 1: presidential palace because that's like one of the number one
Speaker 1: things you do in a coup is you secure the
Speaker 1: presidential palace. Ye, secure the prisons, secure the infrastructure, secure
Speaker 1: like the local media. And as long as the president's there,
Speaker 1: for some reason, physically it makes it exponentially harder. I
Speaker 1: don't know why. Yeah, but couldn't if you were the military.
Speaker 1: Couldn't you just go up to the president and be like,
Speaker 1: you're not president anymore and they could say yes I
Speaker 1: am yeah, you say no you're not. We have the guns,
Speaker 1: get out of the military presidential palace.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like very passive aggressive to just like change
Speaker 2: change the dead vaults when it really is sorry, can't
Speaker 2: get to your bedroom anymore.
Speaker 1: But Thailand had the same thing, but their junta was
Speaker 1: the coup carried out by the junta was apparently popularly supported.
Speaker 1: Oh it was, Yeah, it was the president who's like
Speaker 1: I vote nay, everybody else said yay.
Speaker 2: So sometimes when there's a dictatorship, they actually give the
Speaker 2: appearance that they might hold elections, oh yeah, when in
Speaker 2: fact it's just sort of a farce.
Speaker 1: That's a big deal though, actually, because I mean democracy
Speaker 1: or liberal democracies are viewed as so legitimate that dictators
Speaker 1: will hold yeah, like farcical elections pageantry basically, yeah, to
Speaker 1: make it seem like the populace is all for them,
Speaker 1: but the elections will be like do you want to
Speaker 1: keep the leader. No one's running against the leader, right,
Speaker 1: But do you want to keep the leader? Yes? No,
Speaker 1: Please write your address down and include a picture of
Speaker 1: your most beloved person, right life.
Speaker 2: Or in the case of Saudi Arabia, King Abdullah bin
Speaker 2: abdul Aziz al Sad, that's a mouthful, he said. You
Speaker 2: know what, We're going to have elections for the first
Speaker 2: time since the sixties here in two thousand and five,
Speaker 2: and you can choose your local civic leaders and your
Speaker 2: local councils. But women can't vote, Like technically they can,
Speaker 2: but you don't have the idea to vote because you're
Speaker 2: a woman, so you can't vote. And a man can't
Speaker 2: register you to vote because you're a woman, and there
Speaker 2: just aren't enough women poll workers to register you, so
Speaker 2: you also can't vote. So it's classic voter disenfranchisement. So
Speaker 2: you don't have IDs, so you can't vote, so you
Speaker 2: might as well not be allowed to vote.
Speaker 1: Right, So since there's a hole an entire gender that's
Speaker 1: excluded from the vote, it's not a democratic vote. That's
Speaker 1: a little less farcical than say, you know one where
Speaker 1: it's like.
Speaker 2: Where you have no opposition. Yeah, yeah, And.
Speaker 1: I found this article It is hilarious. It's called Dictatorships.
Speaker 1: It was on like kids Net in Australia, an Australian website,
Speaker 1: and like at the top there's like Teddy Bears and
Speaker 1: a sun and rainbow and blue skies and then in
Speaker 1: the text it says dictator and it's all about dictators
Speaker 1: It's just kind of a weird juxtaposition.
Speaker 2: It had misspellings in it too, which is weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it made some pretty good points. If I
Speaker 1: were a if I had kids, I'd be like, you,
Speaker 1: read this website. They know what they're talking about. Read
Speaker 1: it every day, every day. Just read the dictator entry.
Speaker 1: That's it. But they mentioned although, yeah, they got something
Speaker 1: horribly wrong. They mentioned dictator Charles King of Liberia. I
Speaker 1: think they mean Charles Taylor. Oh yeah, yeah, who claimed
Speaker 1: to have won by such a landslide that apparently it
Speaker 1: was like fifteen percent larger than the actual total electorate
Speaker 1: of his entire country. But then I've also seen that
Speaker 1: he's done elections that were watched by outside poll watchers, right,
Speaker 1: and that they they just they said that this is
Speaker 1: a legitimate election.
Speaker 2: Interesting. Well, we talked a little bit about them, the
Speaker 2: dictatorship ending badly or sadly. A lot of times it's
Speaker 2: just a simple matter of time catching up to somebody
Speaker 2: and they get sick and die. Lennon suffered strokes, Stalin
Speaker 2: suffered a stroke, Castro got really sick. You know, all
Speaker 2: the power and money and influence in the world is
Speaker 2: not going to save you in the end, my friend,
Speaker 2: mister dictatory.
Speaker 1: Paranoia will save you and keep you alive.
Speaker 2: It's always just kind of pitiful, though, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I disagree. Oh really, yeah, I think it's worth dancing
Speaker 1: on their graves over Oh.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I don't mean I mean pitiful for them.
Speaker 2: It's just they never it seems like they always go
Speaker 2: out with a whimper.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, some go out with machine gun fire though.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, just it doesn't stay the salad days forever.
Speaker 1: No, it's true.
Speaker 2: I think the message is that's no way to rule
Speaker 2: a people.
Speaker 1: I hope we've gotten that across. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: know how many dictators listen to our podcast, but I
Speaker 1: hope that, if any do, we've really given them some
Speaker 1: pause to think about what are doing with their lives.
Speaker 2: Should we read a few of these weird things done
Speaker 2: by dictators?
Speaker 1: Sure, and we should say it's widely believed that dictatorships
Speaker 1: are on the decline worldwide.
Speaker 2: What are there like seventy of them now?
Speaker 1: The most I saw this was twenty four right, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: And the reason why is again they think liberal democracy
Speaker 1: is like basically changing the game. But there was a
Speaker 1: big influx after the Cold War ended where a lot
Speaker 1: of no, I'm sorry, the Cold War began. There was
Speaker 1: a big influx because a lot of the old colonial
Speaker 1: powers that had colonies and say like Africa and Asia
Speaker 1: suddenly said World War two's over, We're getting out of
Speaker 1: the imperialism game. Good luck. And that those power vacuums
Speaker 1: allowed a lot of dictatorships to grow, and then the
Speaker 1: polarization of the Cold War allowed them to thrive because
Speaker 1: a dictator could say, hey, I'm strategically necessary United States.
Speaker 1: Don't you like me? Don't you want to look the
Speaker 1: other way on all of my human rights atrocities? And
Speaker 1: then someone else would say the same thing. That the
Speaker 1: USSR and the superpowers would prop up these dictators throughout
Speaker 1: the world. When the Cold War ended, that actually led
Speaker 1: to a huge and almost immediate decline in dictatorships around
Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, yeah, so they're hopefully going the way
Speaker 1: of the dinosaur. But we'll see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was that last article you sent, the one
Speaker 2: it made a really good point about the United States
Speaker 2: could learn a little bit about these dictatorships and how
Speaker 2: they work, not to be like that, but to learn
Speaker 2: that you can't not for not for pointers, but for
Speaker 2: pointers and maybe not necessarily saying, hey, we can just
Speaker 2: go into a country that's been run a certain way
Speaker 2: for hundreds, if not thousands of years and just say
Speaker 2: do it all different now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, here's a book on liberal democracies, read it and
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that we might have a more successful approach
Speaker 2: to foreign policy if there was a little bit more
Speaker 2: understanding on how these systems worked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that a lot of these, uh, these dictatorships
Speaker 1: are not totalitarian but autocratic, which makes them inherently weaker.
Speaker 1: But if we threaten them, if we're belligerent to them,
Speaker 1: we give those people a reason to be afraid and
Speaker 1: to line up behind their leader. So when we actually
Speaker 1: threaten other countries that are that are autocratic, we we're
Speaker 1: all we're doing is making the leader more powerful, whereas
Speaker 1: if we treat them like as kind of a week
Speaker 1: a week leader of a weak state that that is
Speaker 1: run in a way that suggests that the people aren't
Speaker 1: really behind it. They have to be run with an
Speaker 1: iron fist. Then that that person's probably going to eventually
Speaker 1: get deposed.
Speaker 2: It's pretty interesting.
Speaker 1: It was an interesting article. It was in Reason magazine.
Speaker 1: I think it was written by John Bay utterly. And
Speaker 1: if that guy's not British, no idea, who is?
Speaker 2: All right? So we promised a few weird things. Where
Speaker 2: did you find this one?
Speaker 1: Odie?
Speaker 2: Strange things done by evil dictators? Kim Jong Ill those
Speaker 2: dude in South Korea named Shin sang Ok, and he
Speaker 2: was known as the orson Wells of South Korea, and
Speaker 2: he was kidnapped and brought to North Korea to basically
Speaker 2: Kim Jong Ill was like, you know, we show the
Speaker 2: world that we are creative artists. Like start making movies, right,
Speaker 2: we've kidnapped you and brought you here. Make good movies.
Speaker 2: In fact, remake Godzilla because we just need our own Godzilla.
Speaker 1: It's basically what the CIA did with Jackson Pollock in
Speaker 1: the early fifties. But Jackson Pollock wasn't aware that he
Speaker 1: was being propped.
Speaker 2: Up because he was drunk, so They did remake Godzilla
Speaker 2: sort of a movie called Paul Gasari and I looked
Speaker 2: it up and he basically looks like Godzilla with a
Speaker 2: minotaur horns coming out the side.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not the best.
Speaker 2: What else This Beatles story was kind of nuts.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The Marcos's member of Melda Marcos and all of
Speaker 1: her shoes. Yeah, who can forget Ferdinand and Amelda Marcos.
Speaker 1: They ruled the Philippines for a while and apparently they
Speaker 1: loved the Beatles back in the sixties, and so they
Speaker 1: invited the Beatles to the Philippines to play a couple
Speaker 1: shows on their world tour. And when the Beatles got there,
Speaker 1: the military met them at the airport and said, hey,
Speaker 1: before you go to your hotel, you're scheduled for a lunch,
Speaker 1: private lunch with the president and the first Lady. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And the Beatles were like, look mate, we're really tired.
Speaker 1: We're going to just go to the hotel and crash
Speaker 1: because we've got two shows tonight. And that did not
Speaker 1: go over very well.
Speaker 2: Yeah. They were acting through their manager, of course, Brian Epstein,
Speaker 2: and supposedly the story isn't so much that, but he
Speaker 2: said that they don't they don't accept these formal like
Speaker 2: state invitations really as a rule, I got to either way,
Speaker 2: they didn't go, and Emmel de Marcos got on TV
Speaker 2: and started talking about it. Brian Epstein tried to apologize
Speaker 2: on TV and they blacked him out and people got
Speaker 2: really upset. The police basically their private police escort was
Speaker 2: removed and the Beatles were on their own. Wow, which
Speaker 2: was in ninety sixty four. When you're in the Beatles,
Speaker 2: this is not a good place, especially in the Philippines,
Speaker 2: right to find yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, They basically had to escape to the airport and
Speaker 1: just run out to the plane and head off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of their dudes was like beaten really badly,
Speaker 2: and Brian Epstein was kept from getting on the plane
Speaker 2: then had to like basically was shaken down to pay
Speaker 2: them back money wow from the concert to get on
Speaker 2: the plane. And then later on mister mister Lennon, give
Speaker 2: piece a chance. John Lennon said, yeah, if we go
Speaker 2: back to the Philippines, it's going to be with an
Speaker 2: H bomb.
Speaker 1: Did you really say that?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: He said he won't even fly over it. So they
Speaker 2: did not have a good exp your answer, Wow, who's next?
Speaker 2: I think that ed I mean one was kind of interesting.
Speaker 1: That sounds so Edie, I mean totally. He he declared
Speaker 1: himself President for life, p farrel, and he he said,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to do this in high style.
Speaker 1: I'm going to get four white men to carry me
Speaker 1: around in a chair to celebrate being president for life.
Speaker 1: And he called it the white Man's Burden, yep, and
Speaker 1: everybody loved it. He was an odd duck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you if you look up white Man's Burden
Speaker 2: and I mean and google images, there's a couple of
Speaker 2: really great pictures of these kind of blonde white men
Speaker 2: in suits carrying around its giant Ugandan man in the chair.
Speaker 1: Have you ever read the Bukowski book that was the
Speaker 1: it was the basis for Barfly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Which one was that?
Speaker 1: Hollywood? I think is what it's called.
Speaker 2: I read Hollywood? Was that the one?
Speaker 1: Yeah? He talks about watching a documentary about I mean,
Speaker 1: and how he d I mean, didn't have the money
Speaker 1: for an air force, but he had pilots that really
Speaker 1: wanted to fly. So like in the documentary, they're showing
Speaker 1: these pilots running down a runway and then jumping and
Speaker 1: then going back to the to the end of the
Speaker 1: line and just doing this over and over again to
Speaker 1: practice flying. Yeah, even though they didn't have planes.
Speaker 2: That movie was good. The Forest Whitaker movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, The Last King of Scotland. Yeah, great movie where
Speaker 1: James mckelboy.
Speaker 2: You know you can stay in Charles Bakowski's house that
Speaker 2: he grew up in an airbnb now really, yep, nice,
Speaker 2: it's been remodeled.
Speaker 1: Oh, he wouldn't like that, but.
Speaker 2: No, he would hate the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I'm sure. How about Kadafi, we'll end with him. Sure, So,
Speaker 1: Momar Kadafi loved women apparently. Did you know that about him?
Speaker 2: I did not.
Speaker 1: He loved women, and he actually surrounded himself with female
Speaker 1: bodyguards who he very graciously allowed to wear makeup and
Speaker 1: high heels while they were protecting him. And in the West,
Speaker 1: these women were called the Amazonian Guard. This is just
Speaker 1: off the rails at this point.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, and this podcast.
Speaker 1: No is the whole Amazonian Guard, the whole thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the Kadafi actually had some sort of legitimate thinking
Speaker 1: behind it. He thought that an assassin would have trouble
Speaker 1: shooting a woman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it stands to reason.
Speaker 1: So he surrounded himself with female body guards. Who were
Speaker 1: also trained to kill. Yeah, but they weren't like the
Speaker 1: four more makeup and lipstick. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, actually, can we mention the Hitler thing, because.
Speaker 1: Is this true? I don't know this is I walked past.
Speaker 2: It sounds like urban legend. But supposedly Hitler came up
Speaker 2: with a synthetic blow up doll to comfort soldiers, and
Speaker 2: it was referred to as a synthetic comforter. Yep, blonde hair,
Speaker 2: blue eyes could fit in a batpack, and they only
Speaker 2: made about fifty of them because the soldiers were like,
Speaker 2: I'm not carrying that thing around. What are you crazy?
Speaker 2: And he went in fact, I am.
Speaker 1: You'll see waka waka uh. If you want to know
Speaker 1: more about dictators, you can type that word into the
Speaker 1: search bar at how stuff works dot common Sense. They said,
Speaker 1: search bar, it's time for listening mail.
Speaker 2: A quick correction beforehand, because this has to do with
Speaker 2: bottle feeding kittens. But in our feeding babies episodes, which,
Speaker 2: by the way, thanks for all the support on those,
Speaker 2: which really made us feel good to know we did
Speaker 2: a pretty good job there. But I erroneously many times
Speaker 2: said pump and dump, as like, you know, pump breast
Speaker 2: milk can dump it in the bottle to use.
Speaker 1: Oh no, yeah, pump pick up on it.
Speaker 2: Well, I just I think I kind of threw that
Speaker 2: term around as just the general term for breast pumping.
Speaker 2: That's but dumping is dumping it down the drain for
Speaker 2: one reason or another, like you maybe have had some alcohol.
Speaker 1: Or dumping it straight to hell.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So yeah, pump and dump it sort of just
Speaker 2: kind of went wild there.
Speaker 1: That's okay, Chuck, that's right. I did notice a couple
Speaker 1: of people saying that, but I didn't get what they
Speaker 1: were saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was wrong, huh.
Speaker 1: All right, so it feels weird.
Speaker 2: I promised the story about bottle feeding kittens, which have
Speaker 2: you ever done that? A little baby animal that you
Speaker 2: gotta care for at that young age? Pretty darn cute. Sure,
Speaker 2: very powerful feeling.
Speaker 1: It's very stressful.
Speaker 2: It is stressful, Hey, guys. When I was a kid,
Speaker 2: powerful you're like, you want this bottle or not?
Speaker 1: Crisch you.
Speaker 2: When I was a kid, my older sister had a
Speaker 2: habit of rescuing animals that became family pets. She rescued
Speaker 2: a pair of ferrets from drug abuse quote what quote?
Speaker 2: Drug abuse in quote? When the ferrets were being abused
Speaker 2: with drugs or themselves active users. I still don't know.
Speaker 2: That's a weird thing to say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a weird email.
Speaker 2: The family ended up stuck with those smelly little weasels
Speaker 2: for years. What really I wanted to talk about THO
Speaker 2: was much more mundane. One day we rescued a random
Speaker 2: stray kitten from our gutters. Beautiful little thing, fluffy and snowy, white,
Speaker 2: practically newborn, too young to lap milk. She became a
Speaker 2: family project of sorts. Throughout the day, almost all the
Speaker 2: family members would take turns cradling the little kitten. Feeding
Speaker 2: her with a dropper was pretty special. Was maybe nine
Speaker 2: at the time, but gladly took time away from playing
Speaker 2: Zelda to feed the kitten playing Zelda.
Speaker 1: I forget it, here's the kicker.
Speaker 2: Though as much as pure love that we pumped into
Speaker 2: that little kitten, that cat ended up being one of
Speaker 2: the most purely mean and different cats we ever had.
Speaker 1: Sounds about right.
Speaker 2: She grew up to be beyond ungrateful. She came and
Speaker 2: went as she pleased, and was prone to swipe at
Speaker 2: you as if you tried to pet her. She hung
Speaker 2: around for the food, but after a few years, she
Speaker 2: just disappeared entirely.
Speaker 1: Sounds like the cat was on drug abuse too.
Speaker 2: Most of our cats were sweet and true. Maybe the
Speaker 2: point is there are just some bad seeds out there.
Speaker 2: That is from Chris ps. The ferrets ended up living
Speaker 2: for years and years.
Speaker 1: What that was a mysterious email in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: like a it's like a David Lynch email. Thanks a lot,
Speaker 1: Chris with a K. I imagine no, okay, thanks a lot, Chris.
Speaker 1: We appreciate that. And if you out there want to
Speaker 1: get in touch with us like Chris did, you can
Speaker 1: tweet to us at SYSK podcast. You can join us
Speaker 1: on Facebook, dot com slash Stuff you Should Know. You
Speaker 1: can send us an email to stuff Podcast at house.
Speaker 1: Stuffworks dot Com has always joined us at our home
Speaker 1: on the web. Stuff you Should Know dot Com.
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