1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. War. That's right, It's war. 2 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 2: All because a Hollywood agent's nepo's son dismembered his wife 3 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 2: and in laws. Now various entities coming out of the 4 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 2: woodwork claiming, Hey, I want money. I'm Nancy Grace, this 5 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being 6 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 2: with us. I'm sure the name Sam Haskell rings a Bell. 7 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 2: Haskell was the son of a powerful and wealthy Hollywood 8 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 2: agent who represented the likes of Dolly Parton and Moore. 9 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: The son spoiled. 10 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: Brat, murdered and dismembered his wife and his in laws. 11 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: That would be Sam Haskell. Maylee Haskell. 12 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: The wife had her own business going. Now a man 13 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: claiming to be her business partner has emerged, claiming he 14 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 2: wants hundreds of thousands of dollars from the couple's estate. Okay, 15 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: first of all, let's talk about Melee Haskell and her 16 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 2: very loving mother and father who moved to the US 17 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 2: to help her take care of her children. With Sam Haskell, 18 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 2: who did nothing but make TikTok videos all day long, 19 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 2: what is wrong with rich people? 20 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: Okay, this is what happened. 21 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: Someone discovers a female torso and a dumpster. It doesn't 22 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: take California police very long to track the torso to 23 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 2: one person, the son of a famous Hollywood agent. 24 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: The son Sam Haskell. 25 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: Not only is his wife missing, but so are his 26 00:01:58,760 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: in laws. 27 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. 28 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 3: Police said they got a call from one of Sam 29 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 3: Haskell's neighbors who reported seeing suspicious bags outside the Tarzana 30 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,119 Speaker 3: home and the bags appear to have body parts in them. 31 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 3: LAPD Detective E from Gutierrez the. 32 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 4: Riady call on the Rima seventh at about five thirty 33 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 4: pm involved the suspicious bag they possibly contain the human remains. 34 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 4: When the officers responded, nothing was located. 35 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 3: Even though nothing was located, an investigation was launched. 36 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: This is what we know. 37 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 2: The original call to police, we first thought was from neighbors, 38 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: but now it appears to be from some construction workers 39 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 2: in the area. 40 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: What a twisted story. 41 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 3: Listen the men try to report what they've seen to 42 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 3: the police, but are turned away twice. The men went 43 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 3: to the Highway of Patrol station first, but we're told 44 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 3: they had to go to the Los Angeles Police Department. 45 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 3: The LAPD Topanga station tells the men to go back 46 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 3: outside and call nine one one from the courtyard. 47 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: Okay, I've got an all star panel to make sense 48 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: of what we know right now about three missing people 49 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 2: and a woman's torso that has been found in a 50 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 2: dumpster there in LA. But first two Alexis Terrestrik joining 51 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 2: me from this jurisdiction Crime online dot Com investigative reporter Alexis. 52 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. 53 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 2: So I mean, bottom line, Alexis police and not one 54 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: but two locations send these citizens trying to report where 55 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: they think is a bag of body parts on a 56 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: wild goose chase, a scavenger hunt, so to speak. 57 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 5: They do. 58 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 6: They went, they had these trash bags. They thought, oh 59 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 6: my gosh, this is not something normal. This is probably 60 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 6: body parts. 61 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 7: We think this is what it is. 62 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 6: They go to a police station. The police say, well, 63 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 6: where did you get these bags from? Oh, you got 64 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 6: it from this house over there. You need to go 65 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 6: to that jurisdiction. Didn't look at the bags nothing at all, 66 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 6: probably didn't even believe them, so they send it to 67 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 6: the next place. They're like, yeah, you gotta call nine 68 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 6: one one. 69 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: You know, this is right out of a movie. Let 70 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: me go to Chris mcdona joining me, director of the 71 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 2: Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, host of a YouTube channel, 72 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,239 Speaker 2: The Interview Room where I found him, Chris mcdona, Uh, 73 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 2: have you ever. 74 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: Seen Home Alone? Okay? 75 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 2: I know you know where I'm going, where the mom calls. 76 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 2: I believe this must have been Home Alone two, where 77 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 2: she calls from Paris and she gets sent to one person, 78 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 2: and then they knock on the wall and they send 79 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 2: the phone to the next person, and back and forth 80 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 2: and back and forth. She never gets the right police officer, 81 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 2: and finally starts calling neighbors. I know that is a funny, 82 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 2: a comical example of what we're talking about, but really, 83 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 2: these people are trying to report a bag of human 84 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 2: body parts and they get sent on a wild goose chase. 85 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: I tell you what, if I were. 86 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: The police chief, which of course I'm not, I would 87 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 2: totally clean a house over who chose not to take 88 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: a report on a bag of body parts Chris McDonald. 89 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 8: And I can bet you manswer your half percent right. 90 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 8: This is right out of a Hollywood horror movie. And 91 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 8: that police chief Moore, Michael Moore, who's LAPD chief. Now 92 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 8: he's going to be questioning a lot of folks. 93 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: Well, I hope he does more than question them. 94 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: I mean, you get a call about body parts, you 95 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: better go like grease lightning to investigate. And that delay 96 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 2: costs the case a lot of time and possibly a 97 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: lot of evidence. 98 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: Let's move forward. 99 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 3: Listen, LAPD Detective he from Goudiera says, early the next morning, 100 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 3: police received another call about human remains. 101 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 4: The caller was a homeless man that was digging through 102 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 4: the dumpster to for recyclables and discovered what he will 103 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 4: neeved to be a human remains. 104 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 3: All that was recovered was the torso fine, there were 105 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 3: clues in the bag just. 106 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 4: From a visual inspection. The stage of the decomposition were 107 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 4: relatively early, so no more than a day or two. 108 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad that an untrained cop can look in 109 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 2: and tell me the level of decomposition. 110 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: But actually he may be right. You know, let me 111 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: go to. 112 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 2: Choice Layton, high profile criminal defense attorney joining us out 113 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 2: of this jurisdiction LA. 114 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: You know, if there were anywhere. 115 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 2: Else, I would just assume they were the same body parts, 116 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: but in LA they could be entirely a different set 117 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 2: of body parts. But logically speaking, Troice Layton, do you 118 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: think they could then add two plus two equals. These 119 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: are the same set of body parts as we got 120 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 2: reported yesterday. 121 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 9: Well the corner and medical examiner, which are the same 122 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 9: here in Los Angeles, They're going to start having to 123 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 9: piece these things back together. So the body parts that 124 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 9: were recovered by these construction workers and whatever was found 125 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 9: by this homeless person, it's not going to take very 126 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 9: long for them to decide if that's the same body part. 127 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 9: And the Robbery Homicide Division of LAPD, which is the 128 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 9: most elite squad in the LAPD, is going to be 129 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 9: investigating and try and put two and two together. 130 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 2: Doctor Michelle Duprey joining me forensic pathologists, medical examiner, former detective, 131 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: author of Money, Mischief and Murder, The Murdoch Saga the 132 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: rest of the story on Amazon, and she literally wrote 133 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: the book, The Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Doctor Duprix. We're 134 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 2: all talking about bags of body parts, but to this 135 00:07:53,480 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: victim or victim's family, the discussion of body parts that 136 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 2: is their loved one, that is their daughter, their sister, 137 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: their mom, their their dad, their grandpa, that we're talking 138 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: about body parts, body parts. 139 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 7: You're absolutely right, Nancy, these are somebody's family. They are 140 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 7: you know, I'm obviously very. 141 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 5: Upset about this, and it's a tragic thing to find. 142 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: No, it's not just the shock ultimately learning that you 143 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 2: have lost someone you love, possibly that you love more 144 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 2: than anything else in the world, but then finding out 145 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 2: that they are a crime victim, a murder victim, and 146 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 2: then to find out that they have been dismembered, that 147 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 2: their dead body has been defiled in such a. 148 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: Horrible, horrible way. 149 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: To doctor Gary Pracato, clinical psychologist, author of The New Evil, 150 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 2: Understanding the Emergence of Modern violent Crime. Now that is 151 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 2: a read, Doctor Bracato, That's a lot for one person 152 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 2: to take in. I mean, I remember when my fiance 153 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 2: was murdered. At first I just assumed that there had 154 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 2: been a car crash, and then I found out he 155 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 2: was murdered, and Frank, I don't remember a whole lot 156 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: after that. But to then learn that someone dismembered the 157 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 2: person you love more than anything else in the world, 158 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 2: I don't know. 159 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 1: How do you make a comeback after that? 160 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 10: Extremely difficult because a person would have to make some 161 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 10: kind of meaning out of what it is that happened 162 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 10: in their life, some kind of existential or spiritual meaning, 163 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 10: and to try to go out in the world and 164 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 10: battle that kind of darkness so that other people don't 165 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 10: have to experience it. And people that I've worked with 166 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 10: who have been victims of violent crime, it seems to 167 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 10: be the only way that they're able to make any 168 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 10: sense of purpose out of it. 169 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: What is happening? 170 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 2: One set of remains found or spotted outside of home. 171 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 2: Police finally get there after sending the civilian informant on 172 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 2: a wild goose chase. When they get there, no more remains. 173 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 2: It's gone. They don't execute a search warrant. They do nothing, 174 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,839 Speaker 2: claiming they don't have enough evidence to execute a search 175 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 2: warrant in the home. 176 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: The next day. 177 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 2: It's reported that there is a female torso found in 178 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 2: a dumpster. Let's pick it up right there, take a 179 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 2: listen to our friends at crime Online. 180 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 3: The LAPD says that when they process the scene where 181 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 3: the torso in the bank were found in a dumpster, 182 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 3: the investigation provided detectives with information that led them to 183 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 3: the residence of Samuel Haskell. 184 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: Sam Haskell the Fourth who is that listen? 185 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 3: Sam Haskell the Fourth is the son of Sam Haskell 186 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 3: the Third, an Emmy Award winning producer who was a 187 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 3: high profile agent with Hollywood's William Morris talent Agency, where 188 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 3: he represented a list stars like George Clooney, Would be Goldberg, 189 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 3: Dolly Parton, and many others. Haskell the Fourth list himself 190 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 3: as a director and posted several clips online of low 191 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 3: budget videos he wrote and filmed. Former Real Housewives of 192 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 3: Beverly hillstar Brandy Glanville appears in one of the clips 193 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 3: for a movie which appears to be a high school 194 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 3: teen drama. 195 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace. 196 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 2: Businessman Alex Dorian is suing, claiming he is owed nearly 197 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 2: half a million dollars after he says he provided money 198 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 2: for a short lived partnership with Meylee Haskell. According to 199 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 2: a complaint, well he can't get anything out of Maylee 200 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 2: because she was murdered. 201 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: This is what happened. 202 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 2: So Sam Haskell the Fourth is a son of a 203 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 2: high powered talent agent who was known as a quote good. 204 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: Guy of Hollywood. 205 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: The Dad Haskell three was the CEO, I believe the 206 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 2: Miss America pageant for many many years. Has I think 207 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 2: still working with Dolly Parton in her Magnoia productions. 208 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: I mean the dad is renowned. 209 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 2: In fact, I think he was the world wide head 210 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 2: of TV work for William Morris. 211 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 11: Do I have that right? Haskell Free the father he was, 212 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 11: but he wasn't the head of the pageants he was. 213 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 11: He separated from the pageant organization about a year ago. 214 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: Over just regarding some emails. 215 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 2: But correct, And that leads me to the Sun Haskell four. Now, 216 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 2: from what I understand, this guy, Haskell four has directed 217 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 2: a few things, including working with Tiger A Machine Gun Kelly, 218 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 2: but he never reached the level. 219 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: Of his father's fame. Is that right? Correct? 220 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 6: Not in any way, shape or form. And he mostly 221 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 6: put things on social media where he would do videos, 222 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 6: you know, on TikTok. 223 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I'm so glad you said that. Let's 224 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 2: take a listen to Sam Haskell four, the fourth on 225 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 2: social media his TikTok. This is our cut fourteen. 226 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 12: Like my resume says unhappy, bitter, resentful. Now I'm consistently 227 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 12: never going to stop drinking. Shout out to the waiter 228 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 12: at the restaurant above nor strums for just like completely 229 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 12: burning out of my Like, what kind of a monster 230 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 12: are you? Homie? 231 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: What Sidney? Can I hear that again? 232 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 12: Like my resume says unhappy, bitter, resentful. Now I'm consistently 233 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 12: never going to stop drinking. Shout out to the waiter 234 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 12: at the restaurant above Nors Drums for just like completely 235 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 12: burning them out of my filet, Like, what kind of 236 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 12: a monster are you? Homie? 237 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: Okay? 238 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 2: This guy, Sam Haskell the fourth is living in a 239 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 2: nearly three million dollars home in Tarzana, which is a 240 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 2: really beautiful area around LA. He's got an enclosed backyard 241 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 2: I've seen it myself, with a gorgeous pool, a play 242 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 2: area for his children, the works. 243 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: It's a six bedroom. 244 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 2: Home and he is whining that he's an happy, bitter 245 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 2: and resentful. 246 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: He's never going to stop drinking. 247 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 2: Thanks for sharing and complaining that the waiter at the 248 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 2: restaurant on top of North Troms, I guess. 249 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: It's at the tapangam All. I'm not sure. 250 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 2: North Troms, which is a really expensive department store, burned 251 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 2: his filet. 252 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: Mignon. 253 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 2: I okay, Alexis, tell me about this area, because I've 254 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 2: seen it and it's really beautiful. 255 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 5: It is. 256 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 6: Tarzana is part of Los Angeles County. It's a little 257 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 6: bit away from downtown. It's in the valley, but so 258 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 6: it's beautiful, lush, green homes, you know, very spaced out, 259 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 6: not right on top of each other at all. You know, 260 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 6: tree lined streets, really good schools around there, nice areas 261 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 6: for your kids to play. Nice you know, restaurants and 262 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 6: malls where you could take your kids, parks, you know, 263 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 6: the dumpster. Everything is right near a park. Just a 264 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 6: lovely area that for somebody who doesn't seem to work, 265 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 6: you would think probably maybe his parents bought this very 266 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 6: expensive home for him. They just moved there in December 267 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 6: of twenty twenty, so in the middle of the pandemic 268 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 6: they moved. 269 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: And joining me right now is a special guest. It 270 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 2: is el Been and Me. Thank you for being with us. 271 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 2: We're all trying to figure out what exactly is happening. 272 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 2: You are a friend and neighbor of May and Sam 273 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 2: Haskell the fourth. 274 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: What can you tell us about them? 275 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 5: So they moved to the neighborhood, like you said, in 276 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 5: December twenty twenty January twenty twenty one, during the pandemic, 277 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 5: and from the beginning I did think that they were. 278 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 5: It struck me that they were very different. Sam and May. 279 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 5: He was She's extremely outgoing. Right when she moved in here. 280 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 5: She came around and she introduced herself, and she wanted 281 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 5: to make plans with us and the kids. And he 282 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 5: was not like that. He would, you know, say hello 283 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 5: if I saw him on the street, maybe kind of 284 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 5: like nod his head. He would smile. So he was 285 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 5: outwardly friendly. But in the I guess three years that 286 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 5: he lived next to us, I never actually had a 287 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 5: conversation with him, But with Mate it was very different. 288 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 5: I had many, many long conversations with her, took many 289 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 5: long walks, and I can't say the same for him. 290 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: Question, you spent time with May and I know that 291 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 2: May lived in the home with her parents, ages seventy 292 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 2: two and sixty four. 293 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: What was she like? 294 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 5: I was just a very very sweet person. I very generous, 295 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 5: very sweet, very caring, would kind of get excited about 296 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 5: small things, kind of a in like a I guess, 297 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 5: I guess, a childlike way, which was very endearing. She 298 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 5: loved to be around people. She threw many parties. She 299 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 5: was very dedicated, dedicated to her three boys and always 300 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 5: threw them really amazing birthday parties, really went all out. 301 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 5: She you know, threw parties for Chinese New Year, and 302 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 5: she always loved to make plans, make sure you know 303 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 5: her boys have a lot of things planned out, and 304 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 5: also took them to many extracurricular UH activities after school, 305 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 5: from music to sports to you know, advanced maths and 306 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 5: so on. 307 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 2: Okay, that is a mom that cares. I mean, I've 308 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 2: been there and I know the ages of her children. 309 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: Are three boys, You're constantly in the taking one to music, 310 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 2: or this one to gymnastics, or this one to soccer 311 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: or whatever it is that they latch onto that they like. 312 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: What was her relationship with Haskell? 313 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 5: For so, I will say that she never really discussed 314 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 5: a relationship with him with me, but just from observing them, 315 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 5: I would say that they weren't close. They didn't have 316 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 5: anywhere near a close, you know, a close relationship. I 317 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 5: would definitely not call it that. Never seen them be 318 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 5: affectionate with each other. They never went on date nights. 319 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 5: She never mentioned them going on a date. I never 320 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 5: observed them going out anywhere together. They didn't go on 321 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 5: vacations together. So she would go on vacation with her 322 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 5: children and her parents, and he typically went on solo 323 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 5: trips I think typically to Japan. According to make some 324 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 5: of them were work related for filming. They both for example, 325 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 5: like the take walk in the neighborhood. I never saw 326 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 5: them take a walk together. 327 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: You know, That's that's really interesting. 328 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 2: Ill and guys, you're hearing a friend and neighbor of 329 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 2: May and Sam Haskell the fourth Troy Slayton. I'm just 330 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 2: trying to imagine. 331 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 9: This, Nancy, that's something very important. I love to take 332 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 9: walks with my spouse here in beautiful Los Angeles. But 333 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 9: he lived with his in laws too. And I'm not 334 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 9: making any kind of excuse, but people sometimes in that 335 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 9: situation feel trapped. They feel that there are no boundaries 336 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 9: and starting to think about what some of the defenses 337 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 9: might be psychologically for him. 338 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 2: And they lived with his in laws. Are you kidding me? 339 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 2: I've got my ninety two year old mother with us, Okay, 340 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 2: and you know, he's the very sweetest to her. 341 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: My husband, he feels trapped. He hasn't said, so that's. 342 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 9: Nice, But a lot of people suffer tremendous psychological stress 343 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 9: from living with their in laws. 344 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I can't wait to see how that goes over. 345 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 2: Was that you l about to say something? 346 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 5: Yeah? I was going to say that May's parents they 347 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 5: were I mean, of course, I don't know what went 348 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 5: on inside their home, but from what I could see, 349 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 5: they seem to be extremely helpful. Anytime I observed them 350 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 5: with the children, they always both of them were actively, 351 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 5: you know, chasing after them, helping they. Her mom cooked 352 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 5: a lot, I think, pretty much daily for them and 353 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 5: for the kids when May for birthday parties. It was 354 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 5: not that helped in any way. Was her parents. Even 355 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 5: though they didn't speak English. They were constantly actively helping, 356 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 5: you know. And her mom had suffered a stroke prior 357 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 5: to COVID, and so she did use or she does 358 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 5: use a chant to walk. That didn't stop her from 359 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 5: being always on her feet and helping. 360 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: You know. 361 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about the dynamic you're telling us. But 362 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 2: I want to circle back very quickly to something Alexisterreschuk 363 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 2: was reporting earlier. 364 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: I want to go. 365 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 2: Back to these day laborers, they construction workers. 366 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: Take us to our cut too, from. 367 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 3: Dave Mac twenty five miles west of downtown Los Angeles, 368 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 3: in an area once owned by famed author Edgar Rice 369 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 3: Burrows and named for his famous character Tarzan. Tarzana is 370 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 3: in the San Fernando Valley and has become a popular 371 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 3: place for celebrities and those in the entertainment world to 372 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 3: call home. It's also where Sam Haskell paid a group 373 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 3: of day laborers five hundred dollars to halloway three large 374 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 3: trash bags that were in his garage. Speaking to NBC 375 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 3: for Los Angeles, the workers said Haskell told them the 376 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 3: bags were full of rocks, but the workers said when 377 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 3: they picked up the bags they felt like there was 378 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 3: meat inside. Realizing what they were carrying wasn't rocks, the 379 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 3: workers pulled over about a block from Haskell's house to 380 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 3: look inside the bag. Opening the bags, the men knew 381 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 3: they'd been. 382 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: Tricked and more listen. 383 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 3: The men described the bags to NBC four as soft 384 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 3: and soggy and each weighing about fifty pounds. A block 385 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 3: away from Haskell's house, the workers opened up the bags 386 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 3: and said they started seeing body parts, specifically a belly button. 387 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 3: The men said they felt bad they'd been tricked, so 388 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,479 Speaker 3: they drove back to Haskell's house and left the bags 389 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 3: in the driveway and gave Haskell his five hundred dollars back. 390 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 3: Haskell played it off, telling the workers what they actually 391 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 3: saw were Halloween props. Not believing Haskell, the men drove 392 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 3: immediately to the police. 393 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 2: Okay, Alexistereschak crime online dot com investigative reporter joining us 394 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 2: from La what so he hired. 395 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 6: It's some men day labor that you go to, maybe 396 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 6: home depot or somewhere like that. You say, hey, guy, 397 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 6: that's got some heavy things in my house. These men 398 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 6: are usually big, strong men, and they have trucks. They 399 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 6: come to your house. 400 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 5: So that's what they did. They took the bags and. 401 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 6: He said, oh, they're rocks. Well, rocks are really heavy 402 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 6: and they don't move, you can't squish them. But these 403 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 6: bags were heavy and squishy, and the guys their description 404 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 6: was it felt like meat. So they were, you know, 405 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 6: like a huge hunk of meat, squishy but still a 406 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 6: little solid. They looked in the bags, they saw what 407 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 6: it was, and what they specifically described was they saw 408 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 6: a belly button like the torso from you know, above 409 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 6: your waist, below your chest, you're below your necks. 410 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 5: And that was horrific. 411 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 11: So they took the bags back. 412 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 6: The guy gave them their money. 413 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: They gave them money back, and then they. 414 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 7: Went to the police. 415 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 6: They go to the first police station they can find. 416 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 6: The police said, well, that's not actually our jurisdiction. One 417 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 6: E go to this other police station or call nine 418 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 6: to one. 419 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 10: One. 420 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 6: These guys come in with sure, it's a little bit 421 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 6: of a wild story, but you should investigate this. This 422 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 6: is really they're not telling you anything that is out 423 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 6: of the Norman, Los Angeles. 424 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 2: Everything you're saying, I believe it's correct. But what's jumping 425 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 2: out of me is changing his story. First, the bag 426 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 2: is full of rocks, ye, Then he says, oh, those 427 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 2: are just Halloween props. Even though it looks like human body. 428 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: Parts, that's for human body And. 429 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 2: Then the next thing we know, a bag of human 430 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 2: body parts turns up in a dumpster. But let me 431 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 2: take it back. Joining me is a neighbor of May 432 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 2: and Sam Haskell. Fourth May, the mother of three little 433 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 2: boys by Haskell ll question, what if anything did you 434 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 2: hear the previous night? 435 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 5: So I was not home the previous night, but yes, 436 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 5: my daughter she actually texted it to us that night. 437 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 5: She heard what she thought was the youngest boy from 438 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 5: their house, so perhaps from the art shout hello, Hello, help. 439 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 5: And then she heard a car door slam and loud screeching. 440 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 5: I guess of the car drove off. 441 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 2: Okay, hold on could you slaw that down and tell 442 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 2: me one more time? 443 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 5: Okay? So my daughter texted us at around nine pm 444 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 5: on Tuesday, the night before the torso was found, that 445 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 5: she heard what she believed to be the high school's 446 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 5: youngest boy coming to basically maybe from the house or 447 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 5: from the yard, call out hello, Hello, and then help. 448 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 5: And then she heard a car door slam really hard 449 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 5: and screeching sound, a loud screeching as it drove off 450 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 5: and joining me. 451 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 2: Now is doctor Trace, sergeant Search Rescue, Recovery expert, PhD 452 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 2: in psychology, I focus on victimology, star of a podcast, 453 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 2: The Seekers Quest. Doctor Sargeant, thank you for being with us. 454 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 2: You look specifically at predatory behavior. What do you make 455 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 2: of someone that not only commits some murder but then 456 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 2: dismembers the body? 457 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 7: Nancy, We look at several things, but I'd like to 458 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 7: go back to Sam Hassel's the fourth comments and social 459 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 7: media that in itself tells us a lot when we're 460 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 7: looking at it from a criminal profile perspective, behavioral analysis, 461 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 7: psychological analysis. And what is glaring to me is that 462 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 7: he perceives himself as the victim. And I would not 463 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 7: be surprised when this case and this story moves forward, 464 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 7: that he presents himself as the victim and maybe even 465 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 7: go as far as blaming the circumstances that led to 466 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 7: the death of his life and probably his in laws, 467 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 7: that it was somehow their fault, not his fault. He 468 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 7: will not take accountability or responsibility for his action. 469 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: Do you agree with that, doctor Bracato. 470 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 10: Well, I have a few things to say about this case, 471 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 10: and I think in some ways I'm sort of uniquely 472 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 10: suited to look at it because it touches on two 473 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 10: areas that have been major ones for me in my research. 474 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 10: First of all, dismemberment and mutilation need to be distinguished. 475 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 10: I worked with doctor Ann Burgess, doctor Victor Patrica, Michael Stone, 476 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 10: doctor Michael Stone, and we came up with definitions to 477 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 10: distinguish those offenses. It's important for people to understand the dismemberment, 478 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 10: according to our work, really means the destruction or removal 479 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 10: of a large part of the body the torso, the arms, hand, helvis, legs, 480 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 10: or feet, and any destruction or elimination of a smaller 481 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 10: part thereof of any you know, it. 482 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: Would be mutilation. 483 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 10: And the reason it's important is there are differences in 484 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,239 Speaker 10: the psychology and motives of people according to which of 485 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 10: those things they're doing. What it sounds like here. We 486 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 10: don't know how much butchery there was, but this sounds 487 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 10: like dismemberment offense. And with dismemberment, we found in our 488 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 10: research that the vast majority offenders are doing that to 489 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 10: get rid of body parts because of concern about capture. 490 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 10: The outside, you know, looking in makes it seem like 491 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 10: it's some kind of bizarre, psychotic, crazy thing to do, 492 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 10: but the reality is it's a pretty organized thing to 493 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 10: do that's done by a person that's trying to clean 494 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 10: up after they've eliminated people. Now, the other thing that 495 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 10: I can kind of put some in a unique position 496 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 10: here is I know that you know, there's been a 497 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 10: charge that this man has killed not only this woman 498 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 10: but her parents, which would place him in the category 499 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 10: mass murder. When I was at Columbia Medical Center, I 500 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 10: led the largest study ever done of mass murder. And 501 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 10: what I can tell you is is that in order 502 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 10: to know the motives of a person who commits mess murder, 503 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 10: we have to know what was used to kill. If 504 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 10: a gun is used, there's a very low likelihood that 505 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 10: the person was seriously disturbed or mentally ill. If something 506 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 10: else was used, like a knife, then we start thinking 507 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 10: that this was an individual who was unwell in some way. 508 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 10: The statistics, it becomes much more probable that the person 509 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 10: was disturbed. 510 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: If they use a knife. Is that what you said? 511 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 10: Yes, the use of a knife would be more of 512 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 10: a giveaway that you're dealing with somebody that would be 513 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 10: authentically odd interpersonally, a little more kind of unwell. 514 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: Right, Are you saying insane? Not insane? Just odd? 515 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 3: Odd? 516 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 10: For example, the individual might be paranoid or a little 517 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 10: bit aggressive. 518 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 2: Are you talking about someone that kills and as members 519 00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 2: with a knife. 520 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 10: Talking about someone who commits mass murder using a knife? 521 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: Well, what doesn't it good without saying that they're odd? 522 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: Well odd? 523 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 10: And when I say odd, I don't mean odd because 524 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 10: you've committed murder or anything like that. I mean odd 525 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 10: that even at baseline, the person would say peculiar things 526 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 10: would be a little bit kind of odd to the 527 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 10: average individual, hot headed, a little paranoid, a little peculiar. 528 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 10: And that matches what we're hearing, and that weird recording 529 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 10: from TikTok and some of these stories about the detachment 530 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 10: and the coldness between the members of the family. Now 531 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 10: what's interesting about this is when we see these kinds 532 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 10: of cases where you know, there's been this explosive potential 533 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 10: killing of a family and then there's dismemberment, there's usually 534 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 10: one of two reasons it happens. One is elimination murder, 535 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 10: as I term it, which is where the idea is 536 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 10: to simply get rid of them because they are an 537 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 10: impediment to something like, for example, I want to have 538 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 10: a new romance, or I am trying to get my 539 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 10: hands up some money. The other that you see is 540 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 10: some kind of domestic matter that causes an emotional disruption 541 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 10: and somebody in an absolute rage kills someone and then 542 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 10: has to kill everyone who has witnessed it in the family. 543 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 10: So that what I would suppose, if it turns out 544 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 10: that this is indeed a mass murder followed by dismemberment, 545 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 10: was that there was some kind of hot headed, angry, 546 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 10: odd person who became enraged or had a motive to 547 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 10: get rid of these people, did so, and then attempted, 548 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 10: in a clumsy, weird way to hide it. And the 549 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 10: reason it's so odd and the stories are ridiculous is 550 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 10: often that the person is odd and lacks that kind 551 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 10: of interpersonal empathy to kind of pick up that people 552 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 10: would think these stories were weird. 553 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 2: Let's go back to the Haskell's neighbor El benemy Elle question. 554 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 2: I know you spent a good bit of time with May. 555 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 2: Do you have any knowledge of Haskell having a fixation 556 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 2: for on martial arts and kept samurai swords and crossbows 557 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 2: in them? 558 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, so I did. I did notice that about him. 559 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 5: I know that she mentioned that he would direct or 560 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 5: produce martial arts related movies or videos, or that he 561 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 5: would go on martial arts trips to Japan, I believe, 562 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 5: and I don't know why I remember this, but I 563 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 5: seem to recall that he may have a black belt 564 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 5: or a couple of black belts in different martial arts. 565 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:43,479 Speaker 5: And and then I did know about their having various 566 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 5: weapons in the house, such as the stores and samurai 567 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:52,680 Speaker 5: swords I believe, acrossbow firearms. So that that's definitely something 568 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 5: that stayed very top of mind for me as a 569 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 5: mama four living next. 570 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 2: Door, did her mace children and tell your children about 571 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 2: all the weapons to the point you did not want 572 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,320 Speaker 2: your children alone at their home upstairs? 573 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 5: Yes, So they did mention that to my kids, several 574 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 5: points about let's say, a Semurai sword or pointing up 575 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 5: to where supposedly a specific firearm was kept. So that 576 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 5: made me very nervous about them going upstairs to one 577 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 5: of the bedrooms. I did, of course, I trust me, 578 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 5: and I did really like her three boys, so I 579 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 5: was happy for them to play with my kids. I 580 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 5: just didn't wander to be any accident. 581 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace. 582 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 2: Now this guy, this businessman, Dorian, has filed a complaint 583 00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 2: against Melee's estate, claiming he's owed I have a million 584 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:05,839 Speaker 2: dollars and he's suing the estate's representative, Jodie Montgomery, who 585 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 2: once served as Britney Spears personal conservator. What proof does 586 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 2: he have? 587 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:18,720 Speaker 1: He fronted Maylee money. Shouldn't this money go to their orphans? Okay, 588 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: their orphans. 589 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 2: Have enough to deal with Maylee's sons she raised under 590 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 2: these horrendous conditions, with Haskell running around the house loose, 591 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,879 Speaker 2: they will forever have to live with the knowledge their 592 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 2: mother was murdered, possibly when they were in the home. 593 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 2: Oh yes, one day they're going to go on the 594 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 2: internet and find out everything. 595 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: In recent court documents. 596 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 2: A guy claims that Maylee, some Haskell's widow that he murdered, verbally, 597 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 2: verbally agreed to lend, agreed to accept money lent to 598 00:35:54,600 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 2: her by the plaintiff for the purchasing loan to her 599 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 2: by the plaintiff for construction and mortgage payments on her home. 600 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 2: Is there a legal document supporting this or was it 601 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 2: an oral contract. He claims that may told him she 602 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,839 Speaker 2: was to buy the property with the intention of flipping 603 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 2: it selling it for a profit. 604 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: Is that true. Well, Maylee won't be able. 605 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 2: To testify because she was murdered. 606 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,439 Speaker 1: This is what happened. We wait. 607 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 2: Nancy unfolds goodbye friend. 608 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off Goodbye friend.