1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's us Josh and Chuck, and we just 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: wanted to say that if you have very strong religious beliefs, 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, you may want to skip this one. Yeah. 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: You know, we talked about Satanism in this episode and 5 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: what seems like glowing terms, but um, for my part 6 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: at least, I was just trying to have a little 7 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: fun with it, So I hope that comes across. Yeah, 8 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: we have an intellectual conversation about Satanism. How about that? 9 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: All right? Agreed? Alright, Well, onto the show. Chuck, welcome 10 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Seated directly 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: across from me is one Charles w Wayne, Charles Chuckers, 13 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant. That's pretty good, yells above himself and there 14 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: is um old scratch to my right. Matt, Matt, do 15 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: you let people well know your last name? Oh? Yeah, 16 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: you're a personality, Matt Frederick, But I don't want him 17 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: to get kidnapped. Guest producer Matt Frederick of The Old Days, Uh, 18 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: co host of Stuff They Don't Want You to Know 19 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: and now supervising producer for Podcasts man, we don't let 20 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: our producers talk on our episodes, so we're gonna have 21 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: to beat that out. Matt says, that was a huge announcement. 22 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: You just said, yeah, nice, well congrats Matt, and Matt's 23 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: been working here forever just like us. Nice lovely wife, 24 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: lovely child, great family, loves Indian food. I didn't know that. 25 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it's as bread and butter as it were. 26 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: It's a gey and non. Now he's afraid to talk, 27 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: which he should be. Uh, Matt's here. Yeah, so thank you, Matt. 28 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: And Hail Satan. I was gonna say, Hail Satan, Hal Satan, 29 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: Chuck Hal Satan. Josh. It's funny I it from and 30 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: when reading this, the thinking Satanists are just libertarians too. No, 31 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: Satanis are kind of Republicans. And I don't mean that. 32 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: You'll see what I mean philosophically in some ways I 33 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: don't mean. And then I thought, I'm a Satanist. Did 34 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: you did you have a wit? I mean, I've read 35 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: some of the stuff and the there f a Q 36 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: on their website and some of their fundamentals, and they're there. 37 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: There are eleven rules of Earth and their nine Satanic 38 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: statements will read all that stuff. I thought, geez, I 39 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: agree with a lot of stuff. They're thirteen things to 40 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: avoid getting gouged at the grocery store. What Satanists are not, 41 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: almost assuredly, are not ah evil people who meet in 42 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: dark churches to perform ritual blood sacrifice and eat hearts 43 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: and draw pentagrams on they may draw pagrams. Yeah, that's 44 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: that part is actually true. But there's there's more things 45 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: that Satanists are not. I think if you're coming into 46 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: this blind um without knowing anything, you'll probably be surprised 47 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: about just how kind of groovy they are. And this 48 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 1: is the Church of Satan. But I'm talking about mainly. 49 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: Uh No, I think you can. You can apply to 50 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: what you just said to all Satanists, because if you're 51 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: a Satanist, you would take umbrage at the idea that 52 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: somebody who actually believes in the supernatural entity Satan as 53 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: not a Satanist, because Satanism, by definition, at least modern 54 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: Satanism by definition, is an atheistic philosophy. So there's no 55 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: supernatural entities of any kind to Satanists, So somebody who 56 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: worships Satan would be a devil worshiper is a completely 57 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: different kind of thing. Yeah, and I didn't even finish 58 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: the last thing. Well, no, I mean I got off track. 59 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: The last thing I thought when I was reading about 60 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: the Temple of Satan is that these are just liberal hippies. 61 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: The temple is Satan, the Satanic Temple, sat Temple. They are, 62 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: they are. Um. I saw them compared to or analogized 63 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: as a dark yes men. You know the yes Men. No, oh, 64 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: you gotta check out the yes Men. There's a couple 65 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: of yes Men documentaries and they basically do this, but 66 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: it's not satanically associated. And I wonder why it was 67 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: satanically associated, Like it sounds like you're a bunch of 68 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: liberal hippie scientists to me, Well, we'll get into all that. Okay, Okay, 69 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: So we're talking Satanists and Satanism. If you couldn't tell, 70 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: because we have been saying Satan a lot um and if, 71 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: like Chuck said, um, you're coming into this blind, let 72 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: us illuminate for you. Let us bring the light. And 73 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: we both group gotes for this episode exactly typically and 74 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: shaped our heads and horns. John and Strickland actually could 75 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: do a sort of an amateur Anton LaVey if he 76 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: wanted to, he could. I'm sure he does at home, 77 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: if you know what I mean. All right, so let's 78 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: go back and this is a grabstor article, so you 79 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: know it's got the goods um and talk a little 80 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: bit about the origin story of Satan, which, um, we 81 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: will lead up to sort of what the modern version 82 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 1: of that is. But if you're thinking red guy with 83 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: a pitch fork and pointy hooves, it's uh tries to 84 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: lure people away from God to do bad things. That 85 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: kind of came around later. So we need to go 86 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: back further to the Hebrew Bible, which the Christian Old 87 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: Testament is derived from. And there's a lot of uncertainty 88 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: on what Satan actually meant, depending on how you want 89 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: to translate the Hebrew term, right. And the reason there's 90 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: uncertainty is because Satan wasn't a figure in early Judaism. 91 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: Because the early Jews believed that all God was all things. 92 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: God was good, God was evil, God was responsible for 93 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: everything in the universe. There wasn't what we understand now 94 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 1: or anybody who thinks of the Judeo Christian ethic now, Um, 95 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: there wasn't dualism, which is, there's good and the bad, 96 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: there's light and the dark, and they they equal each 97 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: other out. And early Judaism this didn't exist. It was 98 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: all in one, so there was no need for Satan, right, 99 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: But as this concept of an all benevolent, loving God spread, 100 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: this question arose, which was, well, wait a minute, if 101 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: God is just so benevolent and loving, why does he 102 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: why does he or she um let bad things happen? 103 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: And so the need for the concept of Satan emerged 104 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: later on, and because of the um early Judaism's proximity 105 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: to Persia, which was ruling the land at the time 106 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: at about like the six to third centuries b c. 107 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: E um. Persia had Zoroastrianism, which had dualism. So they 108 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: kind of introduced, uh, the Hebrew faith to dualism, and 109 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: hence Satan was originally born. Yeah, so there's no like 110 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: consensus when you look at these old texts what these 111 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: translations mean. Sometimes it is an adversary or an opponent 112 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: to God. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's, uh, he's like 113 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: the the an attorney and Heaven's legal system. Throw in 114 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: the book at people like um al Pacina. Oh yeah, 115 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: quite literally, what didn't you play the devil or did 116 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: he as a lawyer? Right, devil's advocate with Keanu. I 117 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: don't think I ever saw that. I didn't either, but 118 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: I mean we're both alive at the time, so we know, uh, 119 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: they're uh you know. You look at all these different 120 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: forms of what the word meant back then before it 121 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: became the modern version we all know. And the one 122 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: kind of common thread through all of them, though, is 123 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: that Satan was an outsider who was sort of against 124 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: the man and these established values that everyone else seemed 125 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: to believe in right, or established rules, or just even 126 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: the establishment in general. Yes, he's the antithesis of that. Correct. 127 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: You get into the Christian New Testament and it starts 128 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: to clear up a bit um where there is a 129 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: single being called Satan who is supernatural and it's a 130 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,719 Speaker 1: direct opposition to God and is usually used as a 131 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: as a tool God uses as a in the Bible, 132 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: at least as a test like go down there and 133 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: test these humans to see if see see which way 134 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: their allegiance lay. Right. Um. That Satan's called the scriptural 135 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: Satan or Satan of the scriptures, right, yeah. Um, he 136 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: also kind of comes out of nowhere in the New 137 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: Testament to tempt Jesus in the desert, I believe, um. 138 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: And I mean you know all this right, am I right? 139 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: It was in the desert? Well yeah, and I think 140 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: by the way, just to back up to that last 141 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: episode when the stuttering, when I didn't hear the story 142 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: about Moses the Bible with a coal in his mouth 143 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: or whatever, everyone wrote in it was like, it's not 144 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 1: in the Bible. Don't feel bad. It was from something else, right, 145 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: it was from the Disney movie. So um. But in 146 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: one of the gospels in the New Testament, um, And 147 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: no need to write in to let us know. But 148 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: it's in one of the gospels in the New Testament 149 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: that Satan appears to Jesus to try to tempt him, 150 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: and he's kind of brought in almost like he's a 151 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: character there. Everybody should know. But if you're just reading 152 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: the New Testament from beginning to end, you're like, what, 153 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: who's this guy? But they apparently another gospel makes mention 154 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: that Satan was the serpent in the garden of Eden. 155 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: So he's a big tempter. He's he's bent on corrupting man, 156 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: getting man to stray from God's flock basically, yeah, and 157 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: they're these Uh, there's certain demons that are named properly 158 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: in the Bible, um, like Beelzebub and belial Um. And 159 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: again it's just sort of conjecture on our part whether 160 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: or not that's referring to Satan or whether it's a 161 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 1: generic evil. Um, it's just sort of difficult to what 162 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: it wasn't was the devil with the horns and the 163 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: pitchfork that we all think about. No, In those earliest 164 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: names for the devil, like Beelzebub are actually corruptions or 165 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:45,239 Speaker 1: alterations of competing religions gods. Right, So early Christianity and um, 166 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: I guess Middle Judaism had this kind of tendency to 167 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: take other religions gods and make them the evil characters 168 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: and their religions because they wanted Christianity to flourish, right, 169 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,199 Speaker 1: exactly wanted to make the competition look bad. As a 170 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: way to do it was a smear tactic and a 171 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: campaign to get converts. Right. So, Bael's Abub is actually 172 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 1: a corruption of ballalls of which is you know, I'm sorry, 173 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: blals of al, but all the ball, the exalted um 174 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: and ball be a Apostrophe A l was the main 175 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: deity of the Canaanites and the Phoenicians who were competing 176 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: with the early Christians at the time. And um, if 177 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: you say balls of that means Lord of the flies, 178 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: not Lord the Exalted. So it was like it was 179 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,839 Speaker 1: a slam on their the main their competition's main god. 180 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: And that's where biel's Abub came from. And that's actually 181 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: that will become a common play in the Christian playbook 182 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: of smearing the other guy's gods by making them um 183 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: evil figures in Chris and mythology Platoo rata bals abub. 184 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: Remember there was a Dead Milkman album called Bill's a Bubba, Yes, 185 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: had like that guy in a tractor on the cover 186 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: that was bil Um. Well, the same with Lucifer. And 187 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: when we finally got the English language King James Bible 188 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: in sixteen eleven, Lucifer was really a Latin term for 189 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: morning star. But in that version of the Bible they say, no, 190 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: what that really is is the name of Satan, right, 191 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: And he was the lightbringer, the one who would reveal 192 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: the truth to people that they were actually being held 193 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: down by God, which is not the Christian way right. 194 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: So what you were saying by co opting all these 195 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: are not co opting but well kind of co opting 196 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: these bad religions another band um that's actually a real 197 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: band name. Yeah, correct, uh, these bad religions and saying 198 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: those are the bad ones they would. That's how the 199 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: like the devil that we know to today, the Satan 200 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: sorry that we know today has taken shape because they, 201 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: like the Greek god Pan had the cloven hoofs and 202 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: the horns back us. The Roman god is where you 203 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: get this instatiable um Bacchanalian decadence um, which, as we'll 204 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: see with the Church of satan Um isn't too far off. 205 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: They certainly love their orgies and they're trades of fine 206 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: meats and roasted meats and Jesus um. So in the 207 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: Middle Ages and the Renaissance, then this this mythology, Christian 208 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: mythology has expanded. You get a couple of books that 209 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: were very key into shaping who we think of today 210 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: as Satan. One was John Milton's epic poem Paradise Lost, 211 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: and then of course Dante's Divine Comedy Um. This is 212 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: where we got the idea that Satan was an angel 213 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: expelled from heaven because of his pride, who then said, 214 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: Tony will defeat of the Lord. These are actually from 215 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: two books written by dudes. Yeah, a lot of the 216 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: mythology about Satan that Christians understand as Satan, and that 217 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: just people in the culture generally understand that Satan don't 218 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: show up anywhere in the actual Bible or Old Testament 219 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: or New Testament. All that stuff came afterwards, So chuck 220 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: the The Enlightenment was another turning point then for the 221 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: conception of Satan. And this is his evolution as like 222 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: a scary, supernatural, otherworldly figure. Um. Takes a different turn 223 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: because the Enlightenment was based on rational thought. Secular humanism 224 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: finds its roots in the Enlightenment, and um, they started 225 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: to come to see Satan as a kind of a 226 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: creative force almost yeah, uh full ill to the establishment 227 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: this idea that Satan is um the opposite of the 228 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: established norms and customs and moral goods um, and that 229 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: he's kind of like a handy archetype for that. So 230 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: he stops, he loses some of his supernatural um yes, 231 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: and is replaced by metaphorical Yeah. And I think that's 232 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: that seems to be the one that the Church of 233 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: Satans sort of identified with a little more. Was it 234 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: Satan was just a just a freethinking dude. Yeah, apparently 235 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: that's where they got That's where it finds its roots. 236 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: Was the Enlightenment very interesting, which makes sense because most 237 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: Satanists would be probably humanists, secular humanists, um, although their individualists, 238 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: but you can make a case that that's an individual humanism, um, 239 00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: and that's you know, that comes out of the Enlightenment 240 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: as well. So, um, you want to take a break 241 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: and then keep going, or you want to keep going. Now, 242 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: let's take a break and we'll talk a little bit 243 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: about witches right after this. So I promised talk of witches. Um, 244 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: we did it in the Jeez, that was a long 245 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: time ago. We did an episode on witchcraft, um, many 246 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: many years ago. And if you are a witch or 247 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: a Western esoteric, you were probably one of two groups 248 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: of people to be accused of worshiping Satan in the 249 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: Middle Ages and the Renaissance. Um. Basically, anything anything in 250 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: opposition to organized Christianity was Satan worship, right. And that's 251 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: the same thing as as saying your God, your creator, 252 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: deity is like Satan and our religion. It's the same thing. 253 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: Anything that's in opposition to Christian thought is automatically heretical, heretical, 254 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: and the kind of almost like the lazy shorthand way 255 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: of describing it is it's satanic. You know, Satan, He's 256 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: scary and evil, right, Well, what these people think is satanic? Yeah, 257 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: And if you listen to the episode on witchcraft, um, 258 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: and we haven't, I know stuff you miss in history 259 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: class did a good episode on what really happened in Salem, 260 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: which will probably cover that at some point I mentioned, 261 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: but I think everyone pretty much knows at this point 262 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: about sixty people, mainly women, were put to death in 263 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: the American colonies, in Europe and UM under the guise 264 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: of being Satan worshippers and witches and practicing witchery, and 265 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: by all accounts, they generally were you know that, I 266 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: don't like the way that lady looked at me in 267 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: the town today, or you know what she I think 268 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: she stole milk from my cow, or I want her land, 269 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: or I want her land, or um, my wife is 270 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: jealous of her. Um. So they're all which is let's 271 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: burn them, let's throw them in lakes and see if 272 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: they float, um, and let's burn them, because if they 273 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: don't float, then they're not, which is drowned. And and 274 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 1: early physicians had more than just a small hand in 275 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: this as well. They in accusing especially like folk healers 276 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: and midwives of being, which is again to basically force 277 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: the competition out. Yeah, where do we talk about that 278 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: one in that's more recent? Remember? Maybe talk about that 279 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: in Great Robbing feels like there were also things called 280 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: esoteric orders, which were I don't even know what you 281 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: would call that today, basically kind of any group that 282 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: didn't subscribe to mainstream Christianity, so like the Mason's or 283 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: the Illuminati thing, uh uh yeah, and like they were 284 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: Christian at base, but then they had like yeah, they 285 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 1: had this other occult ideas in addition to it. Right, 286 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: So like the Kayther's or Cather's are a good example 287 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: of that. They were in I think like the twelfth 288 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: of fourteenth century France, and they were like Christian plus right, 289 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: they were they the Kither's means like the pure ones. Um, 290 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: they were so Christian that they felt like just being 291 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: a normal pious Christian wasn't enough, and you actually had 292 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: to be baptized again but basically like a born again 293 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: Christian process. But in again like twelve thirteenth century France, 294 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: they were considered heretics and they were persecuted. You could 295 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: call them an esoteric order because it didn't follow prescribed Christianity, 296 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: orthodox establishment Christianity to a t. It either was lacking 297 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,120 Speaker 1: some or had extra and then you're you're a heretic. 298 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: And hence Satanists and esso terric order believed in Dan 299 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: Brown books basically that that all that stuff is true, 300 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: all the stuff he writes about is about like esoteric orders. Well, 301 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: and here's the thing though, they were all labeled as Satanists, 302 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: but but there's there's no evidence whatsoever that any of 303 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: them we're Satanic and like in truth, yeah, you know, well, 304 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: I was reading about one the Luciferians. They actually they 305 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,719 Speaker 1: may have been, although their concept of Satan wasn't that 306 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: he was evil. Their concept was that he was the 307 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: one true deity and that he had been tricked into 308 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: being kicked out of heaven unfairly by a treacherous Jehovah, 309 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 1: and that um, it was actually Lucifer who was supposed 310 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: to be in charge, and that Jehovah was oppressing everybody. 311 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: So if that's true, then yes, as far as the 312 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: Church goes out, is as satanic as you can possibly 313 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: get in your beliefs, because they were in total opposition 314 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: to the Church in their beliefs as well. But that's 315 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: I mean, for the most part, most of these other 316 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: groups were not in any way, shape or form satanic 317 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: as as you would think of it today. Well, yeah, 318 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: and Ed even points out and here the grabster that 319 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: by that that there's there's no evidence in world history 320 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,479 Speaker 1: that there's ever been any long term organized group of 321 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: people that worship Satan as some evil entity. That's a 322 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: huge one, because that's that's one of the ways that 323 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: Christianity was able to smear its rivals by by suggesting 324 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: that they were part of a huge, massive cult satanic colt. 325 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: And I mean, like, if if there's a supernatural entity 326 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: that's bent on getting you and making your life terrible, 327 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: and there's actually people on earth who are following this person, 328 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 1: it's going to make you stay to the straight and 329 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: narrow of your prescribed religion even more, right, Baron Brimstone 330 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: and whatnot. Yes, I grew up with that, you know, Yeah, 331 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: I was. I can't remember which show. I think it 332 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: was during Satanic Panic. We talked about the Devil worship 333 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: House in Stone Mountain that it was the scariest place 334 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: I had ever driven past on the way to steak 335 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 1: in Ale Man I mistaken, Ale. Are they done? They're 336 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: surely they're around. Right, there's probably like one in Vegas 337 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 1: and one in Hong Kong or something weird like that. 338 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: It would be funny for the one on Hong Kong 339 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: was like this retroob themed American thing, you know, it's 340 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: like America in the eighties. Um, all right, well let's 341 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 1: talk about Anton LaVey. Then what time has come? Oh wait, 342 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: I want to I want to say one more thing. Um. So, 343 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: in the I think the fourteenth century, the Knights templar 344 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: another esoteric but in military order, we're accused of worshiping 345 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: Batha Met and bath mat Is Satan with like the 346 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: goat's head and horns. Yeah. Um, that's the great looking 347 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: statue they tried to put up in Oklahoma. Right. Well, 348 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: Batha Met is most likely an alteration or mistranslation or 349 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: something of Mohammed, and that it was used to basically 350 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: include Mohammed as uh Satan in the Christian Ethos when 351 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: the Christians first encountered Muslims during the Crusades. So it 352 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: was like the same thing, but a thousand years after 353 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: they did it to Biel's Abub, they did it to 354 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: Mohammed and we should do like a tin parter on 355 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: the Crusades starting now. I just tried to think of 356 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 1: I would be up for that. Yeah, I don't know, 357 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Um, all right, can we invite 358 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: Anton Laveyand yes, now you can come in the ghost 359 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: of Anton LaVey. It is Jonathan's Strickland. Uh so this dude, 360 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,120 Speaker 1: he was born. He is the founder of the Church 361 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: of Satan. If you did not know that, um, a 362 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: cup of picture of him, you probably seen him before. 363 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: Bald head goatee, that guy. Uh. You know what does 364 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: bug me about all Satanists is if you just look 365 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: up photos of prominent ones or meetings, they're always doing 366 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: these faces. Yeah, like you never I mean actually, ironically, 367 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: the only one I've ever seen smile in a picture 368 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: is the current Hygh priestess. His name is Peggy, which 369 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:20,199 Speaker 1: I think is adorable. She's this is a cute old lady. Yeah, 370 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: and not even that old, but yeah, she's like really 371 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 1: old lady. Huh yeah, oh no, uh she smiles and photos, 372 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: but every other picture, like you know, their eyes are 373 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: big and they're frowning or they're licking their teeth or something. 374 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: Come on. I was on the Church of Satan website 375 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: yesterday and um, I saw a picture of some Satanists 376 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: all smiling. But it was because Anton LaVey had a 377 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: naked woman over his knee and his spanking here. So 378 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: they do smile in some pictures. Okay, yeah, well that 379 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: makes sense. So Levey was born Howard Howard Leave, Howard 380 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: Stanton Leave, Chicago, and um, the more I read about 381 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: him and his early years, supposed early years, the more 382 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: he sounded like l Ron Hubbard. Yeah kind of because um, 383 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: l Ron Hubbard and Anton LaVey both, if you ask 384 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: them about their backgrounds, they'll tell you one thing. If 385 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 1: you ask someone else, others who like Lawrence Right who 386 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: does research, they say, I really can't find any evidence 387 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: of this stuff that they claimed. Yeah. I mean, if 388 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 1: there was anyone who subscribed to lying, it's just as 389 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: much as you possibly could as a form of showmanship. 390 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 1: Anton LaVey was definitely that guy. Yeah, so he says 391 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: that he had a very colorful upbringing. He worked at 392 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: a circus, he was worked at side shows. He was 393 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: a police photographer, which may have been true. Uh, he 394 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: was a very talented organist who worked burlesque shows. Um. 395 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: If you ask other people who have done research, they say, no, 396 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: kind of was this suburban kid in suburban San Francisco 397 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: not super interesting. Um. One thing that everyone will say though, 398 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: is that he was interested in the occult. He was 399 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: interested in pulp horror novels and magazines, lovecraft, love love craft, 400 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: and he was interested in Uh. He was very much 401 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: turned off by the double standards what he perceived to 402 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 1: be the double standards of mainstream Christianity, because supposedly he 403 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: would playing these burlesque shows and see how these men there, 404 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: then the next day see them in the churches, and 405 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,239 Speaker 1: that had a real impact on him. Supposedly that he 406 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: was just like this is b s. Yeah, he didn't 407 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: like phonies, drove him crazy. Him and holding Caulfield right. 408 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,120 Speaker 1: Uh So the in um the nineteen sixties, and this 409 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: is kind of like with Ron Hubbard again, he started 410 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: Levey started hosting these lectures on paranormal and he had 411 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: a lot of h Flair, and everyone was like, man, 412 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,959 Speaker 1: who is this guy. He's kind of cool, and he 413 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: talks about things like indulging in all the worldly things. 414 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: You shouldn't feel bad about it. You should masturbate and 415 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 1: have sex and have sex with tons of people at 416 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: once if you want, and just do whatever pleases you. 417 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: It's fine, don't worry about it. And so people in 418 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: the sixties were like, there was a time in the 419 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: late sixties where he was. There's this great article in 420 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: the Telegraph when when he seduced Hot When Satanism seduced 421 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: Hollywood or something like that, where it was sort of 422 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: the thing two be a Satanist and to go to 423 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 1: these parties because you would go in and and there 424 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 1: would be drugs and drink and nakedness like eyes wide 425 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: shut up in there, and everyone from like some of 426 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: the Beach Boys to Sammy Davis Jr. Two Liberaci Liberacci 427 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: was a Satanist, he said he was for a while. Uh, 428 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: Sammy Davis Jr. Definitely was. He even had a TV 429 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: pilot that he tried to get made about, like a 430 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 1: sitcom that was sat and friendly that he worked for 431 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: the Devil or something to find that we have to 432 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: find that to be really bad, and he only made 433 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: one of them. But um, oh so there is so 434 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 1: it's out there somewhere. Well supposedly made a pilot that 435 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 1: never went beyond that. Jane Mansfield was another famous Satanist. Yeah, 436 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,159 Speaker 1: so it was a big thing and Charles Manson kind 437 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: of ruined all that. Oh yeahs ruined a lot of 438 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,199 Speaker 1: stuffs being cool to go to the Church of Satan. 439 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: But at any rate, Leve was making waves and in 440 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six created officially the Church of Satan. In 441 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine published the Satanic Bible, which is pretty 442 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: interesting to read through. I never read it all, but 443 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: I read quite a bit of So. One of the 444 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: things that he's accused of is um plagiarism, and his 445 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: his adherent still to this day they kind of acknowledge 446 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: it a little bit, but they more put it like, no, 447 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: he was building on an earlier work he didn't really 448 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: give credit to. But there was a book. Um, so 449 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: he wrote the Satanic Bible in sixty nine. Um, there 450 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 1: was a book published in eighteen ninety I think it 451 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: was um called Might is Right and it was written 452 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: pseudonymously by um a guy named Ragnar red Beard. Ragnar 453 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: Red Beard wrote this book and it was extremely um 454 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: into social Darwinism. It was individualistic to the point of 455 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: being anarchistic. Uh. It had all of the requisite eighteen 456 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: nineties racism and sexism attendant to it as well. But um, 457 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: the point of it was is like, like, why would you, 458 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: you know, love your enemies? This whole doctrine of love 459 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: is bs where animals And if you have an enemy 460 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: you should go out and beat him up because he's 461 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: your enemy. You don't need to love him, you need 462 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: to love yourself. And um. It was really just a 463 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: surprising book that apparently still a lot of people read today. Um. 464 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: And apparently Anton LaVey read it and adopted a lot 465 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: of it. But then he also wrote a lot about 466 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: ritual and stuff as well, and prescribe certain kinds of 467 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: rituals in the Satanic Bible, and supposedly the three main 468 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: types of rituals of greater magic. There's greater magic and 469 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: lesser magic. But in the greater magic UM rituals there 470 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: is UH compassion, there's uh and that's not just for 471 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: others but also yourself. There's lust, and then there is 472 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: um destruction and all of them are meant as they're 473 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: meant for you, the person doing this, they're meant for you. 474 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: They're meant as it what was called the intellectual decompression chamber, 475 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: where you can just get rid of this baggage that 476 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: you've got. And they're like, it's it's nothing more than 477 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: this little psycho drama that you're performing for yourself to 478 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: just make yourself feel better. Yeah, Like lust is to 479 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: release your sexual urges. Like they'll say, Christianity teaches you 480 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: to repress all that stuff that ain't that ain't no 481 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: good for you. You need to go release uh these urges. Yeah, 482 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: you're walking around with all this stuff that's like hanging 483 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: on you, Like, get rid of it so you can 484 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: go be happy and stop dwelling on this. It's the 485 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: same with destruction, cleansing oneself of anger towards someone who 486 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: has done you an injustice, Like why I sat on that? 487 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: Deal with it? You're sitting there stewing about it. Smash 488 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: the face, go put on your velvet robe. Well no, no, 489 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: that was that was but that was that's a That's 490 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: something that Satanism has long been accused of, is like 491 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: being violent toward others. And I don't think that they 492 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: say like, no, don't be violent toward others. Um they 493 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: even say like you don't certainly don't owe anybody being 494 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: nice to him or anything like that. But um, there 495 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: there seems to be kind of a I haven't seen 496 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: any overt calls to violence that it seems to be 497 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: like if if that's what you deem is right, as 498 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: long as you're following these other prescribed paths that seem 499 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: to kind of avoid violence, that it's more just like you. 500 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: It's it's centered on you, and you need to focus 501 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: on yourself. And if you focus on yourself, then you're 502 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: probably going to stop wanting to smash that other guy 503 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: in the face because you're gonna get rid of that baggage. 504 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: Can I read the eleven Satanic rules of the Earth? Please? 505 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: Number one, do not give opinions or advice unless you 506 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: were asked. Okay, not bad. Number two. Do not tell 507 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: your troubles to others unless you are sure they want 508 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: to hear them. Yeah, it's it's not bad. Number three, 509 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 1: when in another's layer, show him respect or else, do 510 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: not go there respects some one's home. Number four, if 511 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: a guest in your layer annoys, you treat him cruelly 512 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: and without mercy. Number five, do not make sexual advances 513 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: unless you are given the mating signal. That's sort of 514 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: got good job, good job. That's a sixties way of saying, 515 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: I'm down with affirmative consent. Do not take that which 516 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: does not belong to you unless it is a burden 517 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: to the other person and he cries out to be relieved. Okay, 518 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: like you know, don't rob people of stuff. Relieve me 519 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: of this glass of diet coke. I can't stop drinking. 520 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: Number seven. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have 521 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny 522 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 1: the power of magic after having called upon it with success, 523 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: you will lose all you have obtained. That's a little pretty. 524 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: I didn't even hear that full when I trailed off long. 525 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: Number eight. Do not complain about anything to which you 526 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: need not subject yourself. And finally, yeah, that's a good 527 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: I think that one bears repeating. Oh wait, I say finally, 528 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: that's only right. Oh, you only to repeat that at least. 529 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: Do not complain about anything to which you need not 530 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: subject yourself. Number nine, do not harm little children. I 531 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: should probably repeat that one too. Do not harm little children, 532 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: because that's a big deal. There are all these people 533 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: that think, like you know you who uh you, You've 534 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: sacrificed children and you have performed sex with children, and 535 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: that's what Satanists do, and they're like, no, no, no, no, no, 536 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: no no, we're not into that at all. No. One 537 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: of the things that the Satanic Temple who will talk 538 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: about in a little while point out is that um, 539 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: there have been a lot of cases of um people 540 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: who are supposedly exercising demons from children, who have actually 541 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,439 Speaker 1: harmed and in fact killed children, and that there's no doubt. 542 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: I think we talked about this in the Satanic Panic 543 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 1: episode two. There's no documented cases of Satanists harming children 544 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: because are against it, and in fact, they won't even 545 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: accept anyone under the age of eighteen into the Church 546 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: of s Yeah, because self consent is extremely important to 547 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:50,000 Speaker 1: Satanists of all stripes. The idea of being forced into 548 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: indoctrinated into any church before you're you can make a 549 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: decision for yourself really goes against the idea of individual liberty, 550 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: and thus Satanic thought number ten. Do not kill non 551 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,919 Speaker 1: human animals because like you said they called humans animals too. 552 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: In fact, they said that we're not much better even 553 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: than animals. Is an animal reminder it is, do not 554 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: kill non human animals unless you are attacked or for 555 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: your food. Like if a cheetah pounces on you, kill it. 556 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: If you want to eat the cheetah, kill uh. And 557 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 1: then finally, drum roll eleven Satanic rules of the Earth. 558 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: When walking into open territory, bother no one. If someone 559 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,720 Speaker 1: bothers you asked him to stop. If he does not stop, 560 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:41,439 Speaker 1: destroy him. Nice. It sounds like a tenacious d lyric. 561 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: It does. But the way you you counted down it 562 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 1: was like a letterman list like that. That was good man, 563 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: I miss Dave. I wonder how many um long time 564 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 1: listeners we've lost with this episode. I don't know. Uh. 565 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: Do you want to take another break? Yeah, I mean 566 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: there's still so much more, but we go to break 567 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:23,959 Speaker 1: at some point. Yeah, We're gonna take a break, all right, Chuck, 568 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: We're back with Satan. Remember the kids in the hall? 569 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Kevin McDonald, I think with Satan? Uh? Was 570 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,399 Speaker 1: that him? Yeah? Good stuff. Uh. So we've been talking 571 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 1: a little bit about the philosophies of the church of 572 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: Satan um just real quickly, there are nine Satanic sins 573 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: and again I hate to say it, but this is 574 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: sort of appealing to my brain. The nine Satanic sins 575 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:56,719 Speaker 1: or stupidity, pretentiousness, solop si um self, deceit heard, conformity, 576 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 1: lack of perspective, forgetfulness, forgetfulness past orthodoxes, counterproductive pride, and 577 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,440 Speaker 1: lack of aesthetics. A lot of those are really really 578 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: tough to explain. Anton LaVey, Well, some of them are 579 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,879 Speaker 1: pretty self evident, but um forgetfulness of past orthodoxes. Leve 580 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: wrote this list in seven and it's on the Church 581 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: of Satan website. If you're interested to go check it 582 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: out because it's some of them. You're like, oh, it 583 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 1: kind of makes sense. Eighty seven and I saw as copyrighted. 584 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: So the takeaway is that what's Leavey what the Church 585 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: of Satan and lava in Satanism, what it really is 586 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:48,919 Speaker 1: is atheistic anti Christian. Ah, well, that is something that 587 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: you you said as really important. The Church of Satan, 588 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: specifically the one founded by Anton LaVey, is has positioned 589 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,879 Speaker 1: itself as count or to Christianity. He really does not 590 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: like Christianity um and as a result, it's allowed itself 591 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 1: to kind of be drawn into a lot of pedantic 592 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: nous and arguments that it shouldn't and it almost seems 593 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: like they feel they need to justify themselves because of 594 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: putting themselves in that position. Um so if that kind 595 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: of turns you off, well, then friends, you're gonna love 596 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: the Satanic Temple. Yeah. And if if you were interested 597 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: in that, you can become a member of the Church 598 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: of Satan by sending two hundred dollars to a po 599 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: box right that you can find on their website. But 600 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: you get a membership card. That's it. That's all you get. Yeah, 601 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 1: And there's there's actually a lot of criticism amongst Satanists 602 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: of the Church of Satan because, um, you know, they 603 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: they haven't done anything for a really long time. And 604 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people give credit to Levy for founding 605 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: the Church of Satan and that while he was alive 606 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: the churches started thriving, but after he died, the church 607 00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: kind of died with him in the eyes of a 608 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: lot of and it's especially Satanic Temple adherents that I've seen. Yeah, 609 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: it's now headed by Peter Gilmore, who I think I 610 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,360 Speaker 1: think John Hodgman is actually sort of a pal of his. 611 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: Now I believe that. I have to say it showed 612 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: a lot of restraint by Peter Gilmore and not to 613 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: change his name to Peter grim More. Uh. And then 614 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, Peggy the drama as a high 615 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: priestess right now, Um, but I agree. Moving on to 616 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:31,759 Speaker 1: the Satanic Temple, it's pretty fun because they have something 617 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: out there called the Satanic Children's Big Book of Activities. 618 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 1: I think it was given to me by by Matt Frederick, 619 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: was given to me by someone, but it's called the 620 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: Satanic Children's Big Book of Activities. Uh, and it's wonderful. 621 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 1: We talked about that for sure on Internet round Up 622 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: for sure. And um, that was just like one in 623 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: a string of I don't want to say countless because 624 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: if I bothered too, I could count them. But there was. 625 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: There's like a string of basically political Satanic based political 626 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: um projects that the Satanic Temple has taken on that 627 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 1: really kind of define who they are, right. They are 628 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: part performance art very much political activists and are trying 629 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: to basically use they say that they they're using Satanism, 630 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: although they all subscribe to philosophical atheistic human secularism, Satanism 631 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: minus the social Darwinism and the iron ran libertarianism. Um. 632 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,279 Speaker 1: That they're they're using Satanism though in the popular conception 633 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 1: as a poison pill for the church versus State debate. Right, yeah, 634 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: and you can also buy shirts and hoodies and coffee monks. 635 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 1: So with this they use this poison pill. These lists 636 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 1: of projects. One of them was the Satanic Children's Activity Book, 637 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: which they printed up to distribute at schools. I think 638 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 1: there's a school in Florida where Christian evangelists were handing 639 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: out pamphlets at a public school. So the Satanists said, oh, well, great, 640 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 1: well if they can do it, then any religion can 641 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: do it because the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of 642 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 1: any religion or endorsement of religion by the by the government, 643 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: so we can go do it too. So they start 644 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 1: handing out Satanic stuff. And anytime the Satanists roll into 645 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: town and say us too, that usually means that the 646 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 1: local city council or the state even puts an end 647 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: to the implicit Christian endorsement of that's going on. Christian 648 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 1: endorsement via politics. Um. And by the way, when I 649 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:44,839 Speaker 1: say that that children's work book is wonderful and if 650 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,880 Speaker 1: you're out there going why did you say that? Let 651 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: go check it out. It's literally stories about kids being 652 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: more accepting of others and being friendly and sharing, and 653 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: it's like any children's book, but the kids wearing like 654 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,880 Speaker 1: the Instagram teachers stuff. Yeah, which makes me wonder, like 655 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: what about this? Why called themselves that? It seems like 656 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,719 Speaker 1: they just are another trying to ravel rouse and get attention. 657 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,359 Speaker 1: But I think they might get a little further if 658 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: or maybe that's the whole point I think, well, in 659 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: part using it as the like if you this actually happened. 660 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: There's a town in Arizona. I'm not sure which one, 661 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: but they had a habit of opening their city council 662 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,360 Speaker 1: meetings with a Christian prayer. Well, most likely every single 663 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,680 Speaker 1: person in that town that the city council represents is 664 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: not Christian UM. But since it was, there was a 665 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,760 Speaker 1: there was some landmark court ruling I can't remember when, 666 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: maybe two thousand fourteen UM or the Supreme Court said 667 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 1: uh no, it's actually okay as long as they don't 668 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 1: prohibit any religions from doing this. The Satanists showed up 669 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: and said well, here comes of Satanists. We're gonna give 670 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,719 Speaker 1: a benediction to open up your city council meeting. And 671 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,720 Speaker 1: the city council said, okay, nobody's gonna do prayers anymore. 672 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: That's kind of what their job is, to shut it down. 673 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,879 Speaker 1: But if they if they just did it like, well, 674 00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,359 Speaker 1: the secular humanists are here and we're gonna say a prayer, 675 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 1: body be like, well, who cares. That's fine. But the 676 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 1: people who are so afraid of Satanists are so afraid 677 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 1: of Satanists that they are um there there. They would 678 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 1: just they would rather stop the city council implicitly endorsing 679 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,279 Speaker 1: the Christian prayer then to allow the Satanic prayer as well. 680 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: That's how it works. And it's the same with the 681 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,400 Speaker 1: statue in Oklahoma. He said, oh, well, you're gonna put 682 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 1: up your statute. We're we're gonna put up one of 683 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: what's it called baffa mat which again, I know you've 684 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,839 Speaker 1: seen the statue. We both love it just because it's 685 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:45,920 Speaker 1: so cool looking. It looks like the cover of some 686 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:50,359 Speaker 1: great heavy metal album. It does. But it's like, yeah, 687 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,359 Speaker 1: the two kids looking up adoring Le and Chuck, the 688 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: Satanic Temple. As another thing going on right now too, 689 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: a new initiative that they started right which is the 690 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:06,239 Speaker 1: after school Satan Club. And again I have to laugh. 691 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: It just sounds funny, but what it is. It's an 692 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: after school curriculum um to teach reasoning and social skills 693 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: to kids basis. And again as a counter something called 694 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: the Good News Club, which is an Evangelical Christian after 695 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,120 Speaker 1: school program. So again they're saying, you got yours, will 696 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,800 Speaker 1: have ours. Yeah, And there's another two thousand one Supreme 697 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: Court ruling that said, you know what, sure, we can 698 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: have religious after school programs. And the the just the 699 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:38,880 Speaker 1: floodgates opened, and the Lucian grieves, whose name is Doug Mesner, 700 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,080 Speaker 1: he's one of the founders of the Satanic Temple. He says, 701 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: we're doing this because the Good News Club is creating 702 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,399 Speaker 1: a need for it. If they were, if they were 703 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,600 Speaker 1: just doing this in churches rather than public schools, we 704 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,279 Speaker 1: wouldn't have our after school Satan Club. But they are, 705 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,120 Speaker 1: so we are. Yeah, here's a quote. While the Good 706 00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 1: News Club focuses on indoctrination still in children with a 707 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 1: fear of hell and God's wrath after school Satan clubs 708 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,200 Speaker 1: will focus on free inquiry and rationalism. We prefer to 709 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,440 Speaker 1: give children appreciation of the natural wonders surrounding them, not 710 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:15,879 Speaker 1: a fear of an everlasting otherworldly horror. Uh. However, being 711 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,400 Speaker 1: a member of the Satanic Temple or the Church of 712 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,480 Speaker 1: Satan is not to say that you can just be 713 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,880 Speaker 1: very much out with it. These days, a lot of 714 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 1: those folks, even if they are really just secular humanist 715 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,360 Speaker 1: atheist at heart, they do want to associate with the 716 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,920 Speaker 1: Satanic templary Church of Satan. They a lot of times, 717 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:39,320 Speaker 1: you'll still keep it quiet, keep it a secret, because, um, 718 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 1: you will get people don't get what it's about, and 719 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,359 Speaker 1: they will think, well, again, the people still believe that they, 720 00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:51,360 Speaker 1: you know, have blood sacrifice and you know, sacrifice animals 721 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 1: and eat the hearts out of goats and things like that. Right. 722 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,360 Speaker 1: And there have been people in history, um, who have 723 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,480 Speaker 1: killed in the name of Satan. Sure, and that's who 724 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: people point to and say, see see Satanists or killers. 725 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 1: And it's like, no, that person was out of their mind. 726 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,760 Speaker 1: They're mentally ill, or they were pretending to be mentally 727 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,719 Speaker 1: ill so that they would get a lighter sentence and 728 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,720 Speaker 1: that's what they were doing, that they weren't actual Satanists. Again, 729 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 1: a true Satanists will point out that um Satanists are atheists, 730 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,160 Speaker 1: that they see Satan as a construct, as a metaphor 731 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,520 Speaker 1: shorthand for something that goes against the norms, that questions 732 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,279 Speaker 1: the establishment and says, how do you know what you're 733 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: saying is right? Is right? Who says yeah? And we 734 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,880 Speaker 1: don't even worship Satan per se. We really, if you 735 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 1: want to say anything, worship ourselves as individual gods. Peter 736 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:46,040 Speaker 1: Gilmore calls it a theism. Isn't it the lower case I. 737 00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:50,520 Speaker 1: He's like, yes, Gilmore, Eugenius, but he says his name 738 00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 1: should have been grim more and more or kill more. Um. Yeah. 739 00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 1: Richard Ramirez David Berkowitz, son of Sam, talked about demons 740 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:04,360 Speaker 1: um Ricky Casso famously in the seventies. I was an 741 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,280 Speaker 1: American teen who killed someone in the name of Satan 742 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,919 Speaker 1: and much too Angus Young Chagrin was hauled into court 743 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,560 Speaker 1: with this a C d C T shirt on Uh, 744 00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,400 Speaker 1: We're not gonna get too much into this because you 745 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 1: can go listen to our great episode on the Satanic 746 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 1: Panic of the eighties from January but um, in short, 747 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,160 Speaker 1: it was a It was a time where people like 748 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,280 Speaker 1: Ozzy Osbourne and Judas Priest were making use of Satanic 749 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:40,840 Speaker 1: imagery purely for gags and selling records. Uh, none of 750 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,760 Speaker 1: it was. I mean, today there are some legit creepy 751 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:49,719 Speaker 1: dark metal bands. They are very much more overt with 752 00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,839 Speaker 1: their lyrics and things. But I think Ozzy Osbourne has 753 00:47:53,880 --> 00:48:00,000 Speaker 1: definitely been outed as you know, not some satan worship 754 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,000 Speaker 1: being ghoule. You know, anyone who's ever seen him on 755 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,879 Speaker 1: television can tell you that. Yeah, And I mean it 756 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 1: bears fleshing out. There are there are, like supposedly the 757 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:16,480 Speaker 1: goths scene in um Germany in particulars where um neo 758 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,640 Speaker 1: Nazism and neopaganism kind of come together. A lot of 759 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,040 Speaker 1: people point to that as some sort of neo Satanism. 760 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,560 Speaker 1: But again, if you're talking about Satanism with a capitalist 761 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: as an atheistic philosophy, and somebody murdering in the name 762 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,480 Speaker 1: of Satan holds about as much water as somebody murdering 763 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,759 Speaker 1: in the name of the Easter bunny. Do you got 764 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,360 Speaker 1: anything else? Yeah? This is let me quote with a 765 00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 1: finish with a passage from the Satanic Bible. On love. 766 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,400 Speaker 1: Satanism has been thought of as being synonymous with cruelty 767 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,480 Speaker 1: and brutality. This is only so because people are afraid 768 00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,480 Speaker 1: to face the truth, and the truth is that human 769 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,880 Speaker 1: beings are not all benign, are all loving. Just because 770 00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,319 Speaker 1: the Satanist admits he is capable of both love and hate, 771 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,719 Speaker 1: he's considered hateful. On the contrary, because he's able to 772 00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:07,560 Speaker 1: give vent to his hatred through ritualized expression, he is 773 00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,399 Speaker 1: far more capable of love, the deepest kind of love, 774 00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,200 Speaker 1: by honestly recognizing and admitting to both the hate and 775 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,640 Speaker 1: the love he feels. There's no confusing one emotion with 776 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: the other. Without being able to experience one of these emotions, 777 00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:26,080 Speaker 1: you cannot fully experience the other. Wow. Either Dr SEUs 778 00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:32,839 Speaker 1: or Intonay, that's Zoroastrian dualism. If I've ever heard of uh, well, 779 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,520 Speaker 1: if you want to know more about Satanism, well go 780 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,080 Speaker 1: look up this article. It's a grab star article um 781 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,680 Speaker 1: on how stuff works dot com. And since I say grabs, 782 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:49,479 Speaker 1: there's time for listener mail. Hello Chucking, Hello Chuck Bryant, 783 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 1: and Josh Clark. Hello, very formal. Uh. On stuttering, I've 784 00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,560 Speaker 1: stuttered from most of my life I say most of 785 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,239 Speaker 1: my life because it started when I was five. As 786 00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: you mentioned your show, there are several as several different 787 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,000 Speaker 1: ways it can happen. I would always try to think 788 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 1: of a different word to use when I got stuck, 789 00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,680 Speaker 1: and that would result in very strange sounding sentences. I 790 00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,960 Speaker 1: would define stuttering his inability to coordinate breath flow with words. 791 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: Blocking on a word or sound would often result in 792 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,880 Speaker 1: a cessation of breathing entirely. Kind people often tell me 793 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:18,800 Speaker 1: that stuttering does not bother them, But the fact is, 794 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,520 Speaker 1: when I stutter, my internal reaction is that I feel 795 00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,640 Speaker 1: and sound like a fool. I rationally, I know that 796 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,040 Speaker 1: is not true, but that is what I often feel. Nonetheless, 797 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,959 Speaker 1: and of course, unkind people abound, and I often heard 798 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,600 Speaker 1: as a child reactions like don't you know what you want? 799 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 1: From other kids and adults, laughter and derision. Often n'd 800 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,640 Speaker 1: hair just sing it. And while it's true that singing 801 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,799 Speaker 1: and speaking are operated by different parts of the brain, 802 00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,880 Speaker 1: life is not a musical and besides, I hate musicals. 803 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,799 Speaker 1: So at the age of sixty seven, I would never 804 00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:50,680 Speaker 1: have thought that I'd end up talking on the phone 805 00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:52,879 Speaker 1: and dealing with the public for a living. I still 806 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,359 Speaker 1: occasionally stutter and sometimes feel pretty badly, but I've learned 807 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,719 Speaker 1: to just live with it. Sometimes feel as I get older, 808 00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,480 Speaker 1: I just don't give a darn anymore. That allows me 809 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,960 Speaker 1: to relax and stutter less. That is a perk of aging. Sure, 810 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:08,359 Speaker 1: I'm not caring. Uh. Stress brings it out and does 811 00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,520 Speaker 1: as as talking about my difficult intes our childhood. I'm 812 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,080 Speaker 1: a singer. I'm one of the resident shanty singers at 813 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,800 Speaker 1: the National Maritime Historical Park at Hyde Street Pierre in 814 00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,040 Speaker 1: San Francisco, and it performed in front of large audiences. 815 00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,000 Speaker 1: Singing is not a problem, but introducing songs can be. 816 00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:28,320 Speaker 1: You might say I'm the mel Tillis traditional song and 817 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:34,360 Speaker 1: that lovely email well from Richard adrian Owitz. Thank you Richard. 818 00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,120 Speaker 1: I love that one. Good one. Nice And everybody who's 819 00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,320 Speaker 1: in San Francisco down to go down to Fisherman's Wharf 820 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,120 Speaker 1: and see Richard. Yeah, check out the show The mel 821 00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,759 Speaker 1: Tillis of Shanty Singing. I love it. If you want 822 00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:48,319 Speaker 1: to get in touch with this, you can hang out 823 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,439 Speaker 1: with on Twitter at s y s K podcaster joshuam Clark. 824 00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,520 Speaker 1: You can hang out with Chuck at Charles W. Chuck 825 00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,240 Speaker 1: Bryant on Facebook, dot com or at stuff you Should 826 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,120 Speaker 1: Know UM. You can send us an email to Stuff 827 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,080 Speaker 1: Podcast at how stuff Works dot Com has always joined 828 00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:05,920 Speaker 1: us at our home on the web, Stuff you Should 829 00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:12,360 Speaker 1: Know dot com For more on this and thousands of 830 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:21,320 Speaker 1: other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com. H