Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2: Just an old fashioned love song playing on the radio
Speaker 2: and wrapped around the music.
Speaker 1: That's my guest today, Paul Williams performing just an old
Speaker 1: fashioned love song from his nineteen seventy one album of
Speaker 1: the same name.
Speaker 3: You'll swear you've.
Speaker 2: Heard it before as it slowly rambles on and on.
Speaker 2: No need in bringing him back because they've never rele
Speaker 2: egged one.
Speaker 3: Just an old.
Speaker 2: Fashioned love song.
Speaker 1: Williams is an Oscar, Grammy and Golden Globe winning songwriter, musicians, singer,
Speaker 1: and actor. He's known for songs like Evergreen, We've Only
Speaker 1: Just Begun and Rainbow Connection. He's also written the score
Speaker 1: and lyrics for renowned films such as Barbara Streisand's version
Speaker 1: of A Star Is Born, Bugsy Malone, The Phantom of
Speaker 1: the Paradise, and The Muppet Movie. His work has been
Speaker 1: recorded by legendary artists like Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, The Carpenters,
Speaker 1: and Kermit the Frog. Paul Williams is also the current
Speaker 1: President and Chairman of the American Songwriting Society ASCAP. With
Speaker 1: such an illustrious career that spans generations. I wondered what
Speaker 1: brilliant new work Williams has been conjuring up these days.
Speaker 4: The most recent thing is I'm doing Pans Labyrinth for
Speaker 4: this stage with Giama del Toro.
Speaker 3: Wow and wonderful.
Speaker 4: We've been working on it for years because he goes
Speaker 4: aways and does movies and then whatever like that job,
Speaker 4: and it's just I'm like, I finally went, you know what,
Speaker 4: I fucking surrender. I'm going to take it out of
Speaker 4: my bio. I mean, if it happens, it's wonderful. I mean,
Speaker 4: we've Gustavo Santo a Lion, I've written the songs, we've got,
Speaker 4: if anything, we've overridden them all, and it's like, if
Speaker 4: it happens, this is magnificent. If it doesn't happen, then
Speaker 4: there's something better. I totally surrender. The next morning, at
Speaker 4: eight am in the morning, I got an email from
Speaker 4: Geinnimo's partners and that that JJ Abrams was going to
Speaker 4: produce and I mean that more that that's good.
Speaker 3: Instant Surrender's a good group. You know, you JJ pretty
Speaker 3: good to me, you know, but it's you know, and
Speaker 3: it's like I'm eighty four, you know.
Speaker 1: You ain't stopping. Oh man, all my friends who are
Speaker 1: successful who have rounded that corner at eighty, Laurene Michaels,
Speaker 1: this one, that one, all turned eighty this year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they all have the same thing, especially Lauren, I would
Speaker 1: imagine because he's so successful. He's at the height of
Speaker 1: his success, and it's like these guys are like, I'm
Speaker 1: not done. You know, you say when you want to
Speaker 1: slow down and stop, it like stop, I don't want
Speaker 1: to stop. They go to the twenty years if they could.
Speaker 4: You know, if I was sitting on my porch shilling
Speaker 4: and get get off my law, I'd be dead. My
Speaker 4: wife puts up with me what she calls it growling,
Speaker 4: because I'm like she said, it's like you unconsciously have
Speaker 4: to keep There's something about music that keeps going because
Speaker 4: in my now, because I can't hear, I don't perform
Speaker 4: much anymore because finding the notice is like like Shakespeare
Speaker 4: and drug tragedy. But in my head I'm hearing Dada
Speaker 4: and it's coming out, so it's like, I mean, it's pathetic.
Speaker 1: But here's what I want to ask you when I
Speaker 1: look at you for this show, because I'm I'm obviously
Speaker 1: you know who you are. I know your career, I
Speaker 1: know you're to Palma movie. I know all that stuff
Speaker 1: from when I was younger. And when I look at you,
Speaker 1: you seem like the coolest guy in the world. Like
Speaker 1: everybody would go with you and go party and they'd
Speaker 1: have the greatest time. The music and you're funny and
Speaker 1: you know all these Did you feel that way? Did
Speaker 1: you have a run where you just had so much fun?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Well, and the thing is, who is that I wanted
Speaker 4: to be with? There was a guy named her Pacheco,
Speaker 4: was a buddy who became a road manager. We used
Speaker 4: to joke we called him the Bison because he looked
Speaker 4: like the Indian and made it with a buffalo, and
Speaker 4: he was what happened with the Bison. Her Pacheco, he
Speaker 4: played my bodyguarden foundom of the Paradise and he used
Speaker 4: to buy, you know, like he was an extra who
Speaker 4: did a little bit of stunt work that kind of thing,
Speaker 4: you know, and just the coolest guy in the world,
Speaker 4: I mean, just amazing. And he knew everybody because he
Speaker 4: bought you know, like he you know, when he did
Speaker 4: the greatest story ever told in the desert. He was
Speaker 4: getting everybody their grass, you know, well not everybody but
Speaker 4: the hippists of the hippists, right. And he introduced me
Speaker 4: to Bob Mitcham. That's everything I wanted in my life
Speaker 4: is that is to have some of the guy that
Speaker 4: used to buy, used to sell, you know, get grass
Speaker 4: for Bob Mitcham. So I met I met Bob Mitcham
Speaker 4: and he was shooting a picture in London. It was
Speaker 4: a very Noah kind of a picture.
Speaker 3: We hit it off.
Speaker 4: He called me dough boy, and I was, you know,
Speaker 4: I did a lot of blow. I did a lot
Speaker 4: of vodka. I can never have been able to smoke
Speaker 4: grass because I turn into it like I just you know,
Speaker 4: I am curled up behind my shout and not in bed,
Speaker 4: but under the bed going because you know, peeking out
Speaker 4: the edition blinds, looking at the tree police because they're
Speaker 4: coming for me. I mean, I just go right for
Speaker 4: that gun. I'm scared exactly that. And the furniture is
Speaker 4: talking about me. You know, that's absolutely true.
Speaker 3: But he was.
Speaker 4: He called me dough boy, you like, and he always
Speaker 4: have a joint with him and he goes, do boy,
Speaker 4: this is no good, but you're gonna love it. I'm
Speaker 4: gonna probaly can't. I don't do I don't you know
Speaker 4: even no, no, no, this is no you got it,
Speaker 4: you got it. This is so fucking mild here and
Speaker 4: you have a.
Speaker 3: Hit of it.
Speaker 4: And then he had tossed me the car keys, which
Speaker 4: looked like a satellite coming through the air, you know,
Speaker 4: and he had say, you know, I'm really fucked up.
Speaker 3: You're gonna have to.
Speaker 4: Drive, and I would and then they would just laugh
Speaker 4: at me, you know. But that was to me, that
Speaker 4: was maybe the peak of my If there was any
Speaker 4: time that I felt cool, it was then. The other
Speaker 4: times were when I would do almost anything to make
Speaker 4: her really love me because she was so cool, and
Speaker 4: so I said things. I mean, I said stuff on
Speaker 4: the Tonight Show. It was just kind of you know.
Speaker 4: I didn't edit myself very much, and I made the
Speaker 4: band laugh and I made you know, Johnny laughed, you know,
Speaker 4: the atire. I can't remember the name of the producer.
Speaker 1: Of the Cordova.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Freddy Kordadeva. I would sit there and go,
Speaker 4: why do you have to do it? After sits down
Speaker 4: next to me, she says, I just kept go back
Speaker 4: from Maine.
Speaker 3: It was my family.
Speaker 4: We did this amazing thing where we clean the entire
Speaker 4: house and huge place in all and we did it
Speaker 4: in four days. And I said, the family is in amphetamines.
Speaker 4: You know, they made a fortunate at it. And Freddy's like,
Speaker 4: why do you do that? I don't know, I believe
Speaker 4: that out.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean, my wife Caanna reminded me when we first met,
Speaker 4: she said, I really loved you based on one thing
Speaker 4: you said that I thought was really unusual and interesting.
Speaker 4: On the Tonight show, she said, you described yourself as
Speaker 4: a combination of Oscar Levan and Donnie Osmond, like trying
Speaker 4: to exclude you know, who knows what. But I've been
Speaker 4: a construction brat. I went to a new was I
Speaker 4: went to ninth schools. By the time I was in
Speaker 4: the ninth grade, my dad was going around the builder,
Speaker 4: you know, and he drank and he would get me
Speaker 4: up in the middle of the night, just saying, you know,
Speaker 4: for his buddy like McShane, who hated me. Incidentally, all
Speaker 4: he wanted to do was get privately fried, and he
Speaker 4: didn't want to hear some gnomes singing Danny Boy. But
Speaker 4: my dad would get me up to sing. And people
Speaker 4: always said in one of these days, you're going to
Speaker 4: kill yourself. You're going to kill these kids because you're
Speaker 4: driving like that. He was a big, sweet, sentimental drunk
Speaker 4: you dad, My daddy looks your mom. My mom was
Speaker 4: was just a sweet and wet hands and an apron mom,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 1: And he died you that he.
Speaker 4: Drove his car under the abovement of a bridge, went
Speaker 4: through the windshield.
Speaker 3: Died a week later.
Speaker 4: When I was thirteen, and I was shipped off to
Speaker 4: live with an aunt and uncle, who I found out
Speaker 4: later he hated her and that they didn't get along.
Speaker 4: But she told me, look, if you go back to
Speaker 4: live with your mom, your brother's going to starve because
Speaker 4: she can't afford both of you. So I want you
Speaker 4: to write your mom told it you want to stay here,
Speaker 4: which is the last thing I wanted.
Speaker 3: So it's my childhood was rest.
Speaker 1: To confront some tough things at a young age.
Speaker 3: Dickensiean, you know.
Speaker 1: So you are persuaded that this is the best thing
Speaker 1: financially for your mother, so you stay.
Speaker 4: With the California to stay with the ant And the
Speaker 4: fact is what part of California Long Beach, down Long Beach,
Speaker 4: And you know, I had been I've been one of
Speaker 4: those little kids who wanted to sing. I'd stand on
Speaker 4: my mom would turn her back on me at a
Speaker 4: department store and I'd be telling somebody I can sing,
Speaker 4: I can sing, and she'd find me standing on a
Speaker 4: counter with a little bunch of money around my feet.
Speaker 4: But after my dad, it was gone. Music was gone.
Speaker 4: I don't know, I just your heart's on.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: All I knew is that I wanted, you know, A
Speaker 4: good therapist has said a couple of them have said,
Speaker 4: you wanted to be somebody else, you know. And I
Speaker 4: was also really you know when I was This is
Speaker 4: a huge, a big part of my story is that
Speaker 4: when I was about eight or nine, I was really tiny.
Speaker 4: My dad was like, should he be running under coffee
Speaker 4: tables at this age, you know? And she said no,
Speaker 4: I'm not taking to the doctor. So there was a
Speaker 4: country doctor who said I can make this kid grow,
Speaker 4: and he gave me a male hormone. Wrong thing to
Speaker 4: do because it kind of closes off with the bones.
Speaker 4: But it also kicked me into a premature puberty. And
Speaker 4: suddenly I have no interest in my toy chest, but
Speaker 4: my hand in his chest is suddenly yeah, yeah, you know,
Speaker 4: and they spot down there. All I wanted to do
Speaker 4: is get let's get asking little girls. Let's get in
Speaker 4: the closet and kiss like they do in the movies.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: The thing is that when they took me off of
Speaker 4: the hormones and all, it screwed up my body clock.
Speaker 4: So I didn't hit puberty televes like out of high school.
Speaker 4: You know, So you stunted your growth physically.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 4: All I know is that I'm thrilled to be who
Speaker 4: I am, and you know it's all been a gift
Speaker 4: and it's all worked for me.
Speaker 1: But if what you've done creatively and what you've done
Speaker 1: just because there's a there's what I consider the performer's spirit,
Speaker 1: no matter how great they are talent wise. Patty Lapone
Speaker 1: is great, but she just has this extra block of
Speaker 1: some energy, some weird fissionable energy, which you have. You
Speaker 1: are a real performer. You can sing, you can act,
Speaker 1: you can do anything. When people go back and look
Speaker 1: at the songs you want, it's like almost unbelievable.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm a songwriter because of Robert Devall. I believe
Speaker 4: it's a really weird story. Well, first of all, you know,
Speaker 4: I'm in Long Reach and everything. I graduate, I go
Speaker 4: home for a couple of years whatever, and head back
Speaker 4: to Hollywood to try to make it. I get cast
Speaker 4: in a movie called The Loved One, you know I
Speaker 4: did playing in Long Beach.
Speaker 3: They got good reviews from.
Speaker 4: The LA Examiner, you know, said Pauliams has a rare
Speaker 4: gift of seeming spontaneous in the theater. I took that line,
Speaker 4: memorized it and showed it everybody and got an agent.
Speaker 4: So I did The Loved One, and then two years later,
Speaker 4: just like that, I got another acting job on a
Speaker 4: movie called The Chase. Marlon Browno, Robert Redford, jun fond.
Speaker 4: I mean a huge picture. So we're shooting at night.
Speaker 4: They've got everybody is older than eighteen, but looks younger.
Speaker 4: I'm playing a sixteen year old, and you know, I
Speaker 4: mean the script is they're going to develop your store,
Speaker 4: going to develop your story.
Speaker 3: They didn't really, But.
Speaker 4: In the meantime, I'm sharing the dressing room with a
Speaker 4: guy named Mark Seaton, his dad with George, seeing the
Speaker 4: director a lot of money, beautiful guitar that he's got
Speaker 4: Martin guitar I picked up. He says, don't touch the guitar.
Speaker 3: It's Martin.
Speaker 4: I said, I didn't know they had names, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean, I didn't know Martin guitar. But I went
Speaker 4: on my ball, wanted a little cheap guitar. Or I
Speaker 4: painted it like like a stained glass window. And I'm
Speaker 4: teaching myself chords. So one night they're shooting of the
Speaker 4: scene where the US kids have set fire to a junkyard.
Speaker 3: The Bubba reeves it was Robert Redford is.
Speaker 4: Hiding in the in the junkyard, and I've got my
Speaker 4: little guitar sitting on the steps of the world's smallest
Speaker 4: motor home, a Teardrop motor home, and I'm just making
Speaker 4: stuff up, looking for the chord, and I go, bubbah
Speaker 4: blah blah blah bah, come out wherever you are. Oh,
Speaker 4: we're gone a calm man and get you. Yes, we're
Speaker 4: gone to come man and get you. And Robert Duvall
Speaker 4: is walking by, and Robert Duvall says, what's that. I said,
Speaker 4: it's the guitar.
Speaker 3: I just boughted. He went out the guitar. What were
Speaker 3: you singing?
Speaker 4: And it's it's Robert Coke and Robert Davalla. I said,
Speaker 4: I just made it up and I'm convinced. I'm at
Speaker 4: this point, I'm in trouble. Maybe you're not supposed to
Speaker 4: be singing on a set. And he said, come with me,
Speaker 4: and now I'm now I'm nervous. He walks me over
Speaker 4: to the heart of the set where they're shooting, and
Speaker 4: Arthur Penny whispered some of him. He said, show him
Speaker 4: to me, and I said, it's the guitar. I just
Speaker 4: it's just why it's not the guitar.
Speaker 1: So I keep making this staff.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I go blab blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: Well I get two like those two lines out and
Speaker 4: he says, come over here, stand by the barbed wire,
Speaker 4: light them up and lights up all the gas fires
Speaker 4: and they shoot it. They shoot me in the back
Speaker 4: of the roadster. They he shoots me about four different places,
Speaker 4: maybe three places, and singing those two lines, and it's
Speaker 4: in the movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or we'll come in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, You're gonna come in and get you that again.
Speaker 4: You're any human being that is woke as to use
Speaker 4: a phrase would have immediately gone, okay, acting isn't working
Speaker 4: for me. It's been two years since the last job.
Speaker 4: This is I mean it's but I'm sure I had
Speaker 4: no idea that it was going to be in the
Speaker 4: movie until it came out, and it may have been.
Speaker 3: Two years later.
Speaker 4: It took me probably two years to start writing songs,
Speaker 4: but I somehow that just became my journal.
Speaker 3: It was my therapy.
Speaker 1: Had you written songs before? But eventually you get to
Speaker 1: a point. Do you play piano horribly?
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean when I sit down on my
Speaker 4: band would actually walk off stage. If I sat at
Speaker 4: the piano, they go. I started wrinning on guitar, but basically,
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm just sitting at home. I brought my
Speaker 4: mother out to take care of her because I thought,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm gonna know I'm on the chase side.
Speaker 3: It is all gonna be a big career. Nothing. I
Speaker 3: don't even have a phone.
Speaker 4: But I get hired to do as an improvisational actor
Speaker 4: on the Mortsaul Show. Mortsol had a local television show
Speaker 4: and it was all about the Kennedy assassination. It's all
Speaker 4: about the warrant commission. It was all about New Orleans
Speaker 4: and all that anyway. So he brought me in and
Speaker 4: I played a boy scout, an eagle scout who goes
Speaker 4: in to get his Eagle Scout stuff and gets recruited
Speaker 4: by the president, and the guy named Biff Rows plays
Speaker 4: a chicken delight. Guy comes in and he gets recruited,
Speaker 4: and the two of the men we started writing together.
Speaker 4: We wrote about four songs. He wrote, played me a song.
Speaker 4: He said, this is funny, and that's not funny, it's pretty.
Speaker 4: He said, well, write words to it then, so we did.
Speaker 4: We wrote, we did some acid, we wrote some words whatever,
Speaker 4: and he went to A and M Records and played
Speaker 4: him a bunch of songs and they gave him some
Speaker 4: an advance publishing deal. And as he's walking out the door,
Speaker 4: he says, there's a couple of songs there that I
Speaker 4: wrote with another guy. I wrote the words, and he said, well,
Speaker 4: give me his number, of all call him. He's never food,
Speaker 4: but I'll tell him, so I will go in. The
Speaker 4: song was called fill your Heart, and within about a
Speaker 4: week after I signed a deal with him, was recorded
Speaker 4: on the B side of the Tiny tim album or
Speaker 4: Tiny Tipto through the Tulos, which they turned over and
Speaker 4: played I mean, I'm like, I love tiny but that's
Speaker 4: not what I want to be. I mean, if I'm
Speaker 4: but one of the great things that we just cannot
Speaker 4: plot our lives. You know, you can't plan it. It was
Speaker 4: recorded years later by David boy Song on Hunky Dory
Speaker 4: album and it was like, thank you God.
Speaker 1: Musician, songwriter and actor Paul Williams. If you enjoy conversations
Speaker 1: with legendary musicians, check out my interview with Gordon Lightfoot.
Speaker 6: One summer I wrote that song Sundowner. I knew that
Speaker 6: it was going to happen, and it didn't work up
Speaker 6: to number one. That was our second one. Then it
Speaker 6: was two albums later that we had the rec of
Speaker 6: the Edmin Fitzgerald that became a responsibility. It did because
Speaker 6: only one verse contained any conjecture of any kind of
Speaker 6: the rest of it was taken from directly from newspaper
Speaker 6: articles and the aftermath, which only lasted for about three days.
Speaker 6: If I had not wrote that song, everybody would have
Speaker 6: forgotten about it a week after it happened.
Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Gordon Lightfoot, go
Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, Paul
Speaker 1: Williams shares how a jingle for a bank commercial turned
Speaker 1: into the song We've Only Just Begun I'm Alec Baldwin,
Speaker 1: and this is Here's the thing. Paul Williams has written
Speaker 1: countless iconic songs like You and Me, against the World,
Speaker 1: Rainy Days and Mondays, and one of my personal favorites,
Speaker 1: I Won't Last a Day without You. I was curious
Speaker 1: about the process behind creating such legendary work and how
Speaker 1: Paul Williams got his start as a lyricist.
Speaker 4: The whole point when they signed me at A and
Speaker 4: M Records is they were looking for a lyricist for
Speaker 4: a guy at six foot four basketball player and scholarship whatever.
Speaker 4: Guy that was a piano player named Roger Nichols, Roger Nichols,
Speaker 4: and I wrote like he gave me a melody, and
Speaker 4: he said, you know, we're looking for a lyricist for Roger.
Speaker 4: And he gave me a melody, says take it home
Speaker 4: to see what you think of it. At ten o'clock
Speaker 4: the next morning, I was there with a lyric for it,
Speaker 4: and he said, really, And so I wrote a lyric
Speaker 4: called It's hard to say goodbye, to turn away with
Speaker 4: no regrets, no regrets for fears, no good byes, to
Speaker 4: say love just never seems to work. That it was
Speaker 4: Clauding Large. So the same day I had Clauding Lage
Speaker 4: and Tiny Tam. What kind of a songwriter am I?
Speaker 4: But Roger and I wrote album cuts, B sides, nothing
Speaker 4: on it for like maybe three years, and I have
Speaker 4: to tell you that one day there's a knock of
Speaker 4: the door and it's the head of publishing and he's
Speaker 4: got two kids with him. He said, this is Karen
Speaker 4: and Richard Carpenter and there are newest artists. So we
Speaker 4: started feeding them as songs. The first thing they recorded
Speaker 4: was they had a B side, too Close to You.
Speaker 4: And then the next thing we wrote a song for
Speaker 4: a commercial that we expanded to a full song. I
Speaker 4: sang in the commercial commercial for a bank. Richard saw
Speaker 4: it said, is there a full song? We've only just begune?
Speaker 4: So we've only just begune rainyties and mondays, I won't
Speaker 4: last a day without you?
Speaker 1: Now tell me about that? How did he Lane make
Speaker 1: come to you? And obviously the big red hot Warren Houser.
Speaker 4: Warren had asked me to write a song for Heaving
Speaker 4: Can Wait, and I, you know, I looked at the
Speaker 4: picture or whatever. I said, you don't need you don't
Speaker 4: need a song you got chery rebat. He did that,
Speaker 4: you know, I said, that's that, you know? So I
Speaker 4: you know, and I've done that two or three times.
Speaker 4: I'm really proud of it because if I look at
Speaker 4: a picture and I go doesn't need a song, then
Speaker 4: I know I have a chance to I I can
Speaker 4: either make some a bunch of money and write a
Speaker 4: song it doesn't work, or I can you know, or
Speaker 4: I can you know?
Speaker 3: Trust it? Another one is going to come.
Speaker 4: So you know, I said no, and which I think
Speaker 4: oppressed him. And when it came up to time for
Speaker 4: his star, he thought about me write the songs for
Speaker 4: the movie because he thought it was funny.
Speaker 3: And it's not choice, it was his idea. It was
Speaker 3: his idea.
Speaker 4: So Warren and I met, and it took forever to
Speaker 4: give him to give me the job. It's like, you know,
Speaker 4: it's like wark, you know, it's like, can we begin
Speaker 4: to talk about actually doing this?
Speaker 3: Because teen chapel.
Speaker 1: With them every day, every fucking everything.
Speaker 3: So but Elaine.
Speaker 4: I met Elaine and I started writing songs and she
Speaker 4: Elaine is magnificent and shooting with Warren and Dustin. She
Speaker 4: shoots so many takes and never tell them what she wants.
Speaker 4: She said, I'll see you. I'll know it when I
Speaker 4: see it. What do you want? I'll know what do
Speaker 4: you want? I'll know when I hear it. So I'm
Speaker 4: writing songs. I'm writing songs.
Speaker 3: She's going on. I don't know.
Speaker 4: He puts me up at the wall door from there
Speaker 4: for weeks writing songs, and you know, And then I
Speaker 4: wrote a song called that a lawnmower Can Do All
Speaker 4: that I will illustrate Saturday morning. The sound of a
Speaker 4: lawnmower touches my soul, touches my soul, brings back the
Speaker 4: memory of first summer love of will and me will
Speaker 4: end me. That a lawnmower can do all that that
Speaker 4: alon More can do, all that that alawn More can do,
Speaker 4: all that It's amazing. She leans forward, and then I sing.
Speaker 4: I can see her standing in the backyard of my mind.
Speaker 4: She cracks her knuckles in this scab Thatt's on her knee,
Speaker 4: won't go away. I can see the woman waiting in
Speaker 4: her eyes, and I can see the love, but I
Speaker 4: can't see the Brooklyn Dodgers in la She went done.
Speaker 4: That's exactly what I want.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 4: What she wanted was something that was good that gets
Speaker 4: screwed up. Telling the truth can be dangerous business. Honest
Speaker 4: and popular don't go hand in hand. If you admit
Speaker 4: that you can play the accordion, no one will hire
Speaker 4: you in a rock and roll band. Two mismatched songwriters
Speaker 4: working together, and I approached it. I mean I think
Speaker 4: I wrote thirty five songs for it, and she wanted
Speaker 4: to hear the entire song for two lines in the movie.
Speaker 4: She wanted to hear Warren and Dustin singing instead of me,
Speaker 4: because she's when you singing, it sounds like a song.
Speaker 3: It was a wonderful job.
Speaker 1: But like when you're on The Carson Show in the
Speaker 1: makeup from the Planet of the Apes thing, one of
Speaker 1: the things I learned about you is that you've got
Speaker 1: to be a really talented songwriter to write bad songs,
Speaker 1: and you got to be a really talented singer to
Speaker 1: sing badly.
Speaker 3: We'll give the fact it's about. It's got to be.
Speaker 4: About believable, though, and I approached I totally approached his star.
Speaker 4: As an actor, I wouldn't have it Chuck, and I
Speaker 4: wouldn't have it Lyle, and they had different different backstories.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: I spent so much time in front of the camera
Speaker 4: in the seventies. In the eighties, somebody else was using
Speaker 4: my body, so I wasn't working much. But I mean
Speaker 4: I did so much live action, bad cartoon acting. And
Speaker 4: you know, I just spent two years with Billy Bob
Speaker 4: on Goliath, and it's like, I mean, that level, the
Speaker 4: level you work at, the level that he works at,
Speaker 4: is there's no imitation, there's no acting. It's it's it's
Speaker 4: feeling and inhabiting, and it's just there's nothing that excites.
Speaker 3: Me more then.
Speaker 4: I mean, the idea of playing a scene with Bruce,
Speaker 4: you know, is just God.
Speaker 1: You You've done so many TV spots, Your acting career
Speaker 1: is like an iceberg in most people's minds, and then
Speaker 1: don't realize you've done countless guest spots and you know,
Speaker 1: smoking in the band. Was he fun to shoot with?
Speaker 3: Oh my god? Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, first of all, it's Pat McCormick, and
Speaker 4: I Pat McCormick is one of my best friends, you know.
Speaker 4: So I'm visiting Pat and when he was the chief
Speaker 4: writer on the monologue writer on The Tonight Show. So
Speaker 4: I'd go over and I'd do some game show or something.
Speaker 4: I'm with you know, doing Hollywood Squares or something. Then
Speaker 4: I'd run over. I mean, I did forty eight Tonight shows.
Speaker 4: But I'd also just show over to hang out with Pat.
Speaker 4: And I'm standing with Pat off just talking.
Speaker 1: About the extent up comic Pat McCormick, Pat.
Speaker 4: Mccormay, Pat Pat McCormick six foot six, played my dad.
Speaker 4: He played my dad, very funny, one of the funniest
Speaker 4: writers in the world and performing and perform and one
Speaker 4: of the sweetest human beings in the world. And dangers
Speaker 4: to hanging out with because we never slept, you know.
Speaker 4: So I'm over there, you know, leaning against the wall
Speaker 4: or something with Pat McCormick and Burt Reynolds looks at
Speaker 4: the two of us and goes, oh my god, I
Speaker 4: got an idea. So that's what he put us together
Speaker 4: to begin his little meetings. Dad, I'd like to kick
Speaker 4: kids ass just once, just you know, I'm gonna tell
Speaker 4: you what now, Your mommy is so ugly. It was just,
Speaker 4: you know, And so we did three of them. I mean,
Speaker 4: they kept giving us more smoking the band at one,
Speaker 4: two and even worse. There was no story it was,
Speaker 4: but it was one time I showed up second or
Speaker 4: the third one, got off the plane, got in the car,
Speaker 4: was driven to the hospitats. We stayed on McCormick standing
Speaker 4: outside of his house phone and it goes, this is
Speaker 4: the best time I've ever had on a movie.
Speaker 3: I've already been rolled because you have blood on his shirt.
Speaker 1: Talk about rainbow connection. I mean, for you, music is music.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter where it lays into the project.
Speaker 4: When I met Jim Henson, I went over and did
Speaker 4: the Muppet Show in England, and you know, I was
Speaker 4: never a kid that was in a gang that had
Speaker 4: a treehouse. When I walked on the set of the
Speaker 4: Muppet Show, I was with a gang that had a treehouse.
Speaker 4: Who was the most wonderful? I mean there was an energy.
Speaker 4: First of all, did you ever work with him? Did
Speaker 4: you ever work with the Muppets?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 4: Oh, you would have put him be in a perfect
Speaker 4: fit because you're just crazy enough. You have an edgy
Speaker 4: you know, you'll do anything. But the thing is that
Speaker 4: there is a creative freedom. What was unique I think
Speaker 4: about about Jim Henson is that he let us breathe.
Speaker 4: But anyway, we had a good time on the show,
Speaker 4: and he said there's a thing called him an Outter's
Speaker 4: jug Band Christmas. We're going to shoot it's it's a
Speaker 4: Christmas show, a one hour thing, and I'd like you
Speaker 4: to write the songs for it. I wrote the songs
Speaker 4: for it. It's actually at this point now I says
Speaker 4: stage play as well. But I think it was my
Speaker 4: audition for the Muffet movie. So he loved the songs
Speaker 4: for the first one. So we we said, I want
Speaker 4: you to do the Muppet movie. I said, I want
Speaker 4: to bring a guy named Kenny Asheron to write the
Speaker 4: songs with me. Kenny and I wrote most of the
Speaker 4: songs for A Star is Born with Barbarus Dreisen his
Speaker 4: music my words. And I had a great relations for him.
Speaker 4: We've been working on an unproduced musical about Dorothy Parker.
Speaker 4: We were, you know, it was like he buildst Ive
Speaker 4: felt better. It was that kind of a relationship, you know,
Speaker 4: And so I brought him in and this is this
Speaker 4: is Jim Hansen, Jim Henson is opened my place in
Speaker 4: the Hollywood Hills with you know, with Frank Oz and
Speaker 4: we're talking about where the songs go. We're kind of
Speaker 4: spotting the picture in advance because you have to previews
Speaker 4: or the songs if they're performed on screen. And I
Speaker 4: walked him to the to the car and I said,
Speaker 4: you know, Jim, we're not going to surprise you with this.
Speaker 4: I'll show you the songs, you know, as we're working
Speaker 4: on them, because this is a big.
Speaker 3: Deal, first feature.
Speaker 4: He said, Oh, Paulie, I don't need to hear them.
Speaker 4: I'll hear him in the studio. It's not Has that
Speaker 4: been your experience in making empower pictures?
Speaker 1: No, a bit laid back, so, you.
Speaker 4: Know, I ask him, you know, the how do we
Speaker 4: start this, puppy?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 4: Do you start with with Kermit sitting on a log
Speaker 4: in the in the in the swamp.
Speaker 3: What's he doing?
Speaker 4: He's playing a banjo and that kind of sets a
Speaker 4: certain tone. And I think the instruments like tag pianos
Speaker 4: and banjo is a great sad song instruments.
Speaker 3: I love the juxtaposition.
Speaker 4: So Kenny and I said down to write, saying we
Speaker 4: wanted to write something like when you wish upon a Star,
Speaker 4: I mean, when Jimmy Crookeett takes always hat in the
Speaker 4: window and things about that.
Speaker 3: It elevates all of us to.
Speaker 4: Another level, and we thought Kremit deserved that we did.
Speaker 4: We wrote ourselves into the worst corner. You got to
Speaker 4: think about the opening lines.
Speaker 5: Why are there so many songs about rainbows and what's
Speaker 5: on the other side rainbowsis but only illusions, and rainbows
Speaker 5: have nothing to hide.
Speaker 3: We went out raps.
Speaker 4: We just denied all the magic in rainbows. You know,
Speaker 4: but look at the gift that we were given if
Speaker 4: we go with the next line to it. So we've
Speaker 4: been told, and what we do is Kermit steps away
Speaker 4: from the podium sits down with the audience and is
Speaker 4: a witness to the magic. So we've been told in
Speaker 4: some Tuesday believe it. I know the wrong way to
Speaker 4: see Someday we'll find it. The rainbow connection, the lovers,
Speaker 4: the dreamers and me. The unseen hands on the piano
Speaker 4: and the computer keys when I'm writing are many and
Speaker 4: always welcome, because the best stuff comes out of my
Speaker 4: absolutely unconscious. If I claim it anywhere, I can only
Speaker 4: claim it there.
Speaker 1: What is it about you? What do you think it
Speaker 1: is about you? I mean I want to go full
Speaker 1: blown cliche here and say you drank and drug yourself
Speaker 1: to death because of a hypersensitivity you had. It also
Speaker 1: helped you write these songs. Where do the songs come from?
Speaker 1: You've written some of the most I'm one of these guys.
Speaker 1: There's a handful of songs you put on and one
Speaker 1: of them is Evergreen. It's just a pretty song that
Speaker 1: just pulls at you. Now, when did you realize you
Speaker 1: had the aptitude to write these memorable ballads for these
Speaker 1: giant divas? Well?
Speaker 4: You know that was her music. She just called you,
Speaker 4: she called now. I was being actually fitted for a tuxedo.
Speaker 4: A guy is measuring my end scene when my wife
Speaker 4: walks in and says it's Barbara Stras wants to talk
Speaker 4: to you. And I'm like, you know, oh my god,
Speaker 4: And of course you know. I mean, I'm like, oh
Speaker 4: my god, it's Barbaras. And then I pick up the phone.
Speaker 3: I go, hi, Barbara, Yeah, of course yeah.
Speaker 4: But she says, you wrote a song called for Helen
Speaker 4: Ready called you and Me against the World. There's a
Speaker 4: scene at the end of His Stars Worn and I'm
Speaker 4: doing his Stars Warn with with with Chris Christofferson. There's
Speaker 4: a song at the end of the Chris's character had
Speaker 4: written and he's dead and I want to and I'm
Speaker 4: lis singing this song and un me against the World
Speaker 4: is like I'd love something like that. I said, I'm
Speaker 4: I'm here with Kenny Asher, you know, like he's who
Speaker 4: I wrote that song with. I go and I meet
Speaker 4: with her, and she's wanted me to write one song.
Speaker 4: But that's not what I heard. They sent the script
Speaker 4: and I wrote down notes wherever he called. I thought
Speaker 4: what I heard was, I want you to write the
Speaker 4: songs for a stars warn. I mean, I just my
Speaker 4: ego here listens sometimes when I don't, you know. And
Speaker 4: so I go on and I tell her what the
Speaker 4: songs are about, and she and John Peters look at
Speaker 4: me like I'm nuts. Would you give us a moment?
Speaker 4: And then they brought me back and they said, you know,
Speaker 4: that's not what we asked you. We asked you for
Speaker 4: one song. But you don't seem to be intimidated. I said,
Speaker 4: absolutely not, And of course I'm sure I was.
Speaker 1: Where did these songs come from? Where did these lyrics
Speaker 1: come from?
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, this script, I mean we're talking about,
Speaker 4: you know, the script of the Bible. The two things
Speaker 4: that the songs, especially in.
Speaker 1: The story itself, inspired the song.
Speaker 4: Well, the thing is that, first of all, the characters
Speaker 4: do and most guys writing songs for most songwriters, pop
Speaker 4: songwriters writing for a film or a stage play. When
Speaker 4: I have a hit, of course, we all want to
Speaker 4: have a hit. But because I come from an acting background,
Speaker 4: I want to advance this story and I want to
Speaker 4: expose something of the inner life of the character I'm
Speaker 4: writing for. So, you know, that was the whole point
Speaker 4: with Kerman is that he has a spiritual wife, you know.
Speaker 4: So I said down and I write. Everybody is like,
Speaker 4: aren't you nervous about writing for Barbara? And I said, yeah,
Speaker 4: but I'm also but let's take it up a notch.
Speaker 4: I'm writing songs for the guy that putting all my
Speaker 4: cleanest dirty shirt Sunday Morning coming down. Me and Bob McGee.
Speaker 3: I love Chris Chris, I love christ Oh my god,
Speaker 3: didn't you.
Speaker 1: I loved him. Yeah, he was such an egoless guy.
Speaker 1: I'd run into him from time to time and he
Speaker 1: was always such a sweet I mean, there's the guys
Speaker 1: who are the biggest guys, the biggest guys, the most talented,
Speaker 1: they're so kind. Gradford was so kind to me and
Speaker 1: he was too, Chris, very sweet, no ego.
Speaker 4: My very first concert at a club in New York,
Speaker 4: was at the Bitter End, and I'd show up there
Speaker 4: first night and there's Chris Read in the front. I've
Speaker 4: never met him, and I described it as trying to
Speaker 4: sing through a guld you know, it's like you know,
Speaker 4: and I sang, and one of the songs I sang
Speaker 4: was called I Never had It So good. And the
Speaker 4: first time we ever really spent a lot of time
Speaker 4: together was A Star is Born. And the opening night
Speaker 4: of Stars Born, somebody stuggle microphone on his faces said,
Speaker 4: what are you feeling? You said that a deep sense
Speaker 4: of impending shames.
Speaker 1: Musician, songwriter and actor Paul Williams. If you're enjoying this conversation,
Speaker 1: tell a friend and be sure to follow. Here's the
Speaker 1: Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. When we come back, Paul Williams takes us
Speaker 1: behind the scenes of writing the songs for one of
Speaker 1: his favorite projects, A Muppet Christmas Carol. I'm Alec Baldwin
Speaker 1: and this is here's the thing, d.
Speaker 2: F today I must feet of strangers were rad you
Speaker 2: know I'm not that strong.
Speaker 1: That's Paul Williams performing I Won't last a day without You.
Speaker 2: There's song one I can to do who always cap
Speaker 2: You're always there when there's no gardy, no on that range.
Speaker 1: At age eighty four, Paul Williams is showing no signs
Speaker 1: of slowing down. It was only when reminiscing about his
Speaker 1: storied songwriting career that I was reminded of just how
Speaker 1: long Williams has been a force in the songwriting world.
Speaker 1: From touring with Olivia Newton John to writing for The Carpenters,
Speaker 1: Williams has been surrounded by legends since the very beginning.
Speaker 4: I mean I had songs recorded by Bing Crosby and Elvis.
Speaker 4: I mean because it was like the third act of
Speaker 4: their career when I'm just getting started. So it's like
Speaker 4: when I tell somebody that I songs recorded, a song
Speaker 4: recorded by Ben Crosby, it's like, you are old, buddy,
Speaker 4: you are old. It's a yeah, I am old. But
Speaker 4: when you think about when you started your career and
Speaker 4: who was around, I mean, I did something for the
Speaker 4: Friars and walking on stage the first time and there's
Speaker 4: Greg RePEc and Krook Douglas, you know, you know, I
Speaker 4: think Burt Lancaster was was even.
Speaker 1: I met all three of those guys and I almost
Speaker 1: pissed my pants.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: But the thing is that I write both ways. I
Speaker 4: write words and music, and more and more these days
Speaker 4: with Pans Labyrinth. It's Gustavo Sentel on myself, the Phantom
Speaker 4: of the Paradise, words and music. The big thing for
Speaker 4: me was getting as far as the Muppets was concerned,
Speaker 4: was in fresh New sobriety.
Speaker 3: Nobody's calling me.
Speaker 4: I get sober, and I'm not the hot you know
Speaker 4: kid in Timen anymore I've been. You know, you know
Speaker 4: you're an alcoholic when you misplaced a decade.
Speaker 1: And it's like the eighties around here, somewhere, it's.
Speaker 4: Around you said one before and you're the only person
Speaker 4: that ever responded.
Speaker 3: You get it.
Speaker 4: But at any rate, the phone rings and it was
Speaker 4: Brian Hanson, and Brian said, I want you to write
Speaker 4: the songs for the Muppet Christmas Curl. Have you ever
Speaker 4: seen it? It's one of my favorite things I've ever
Speaker 4: done in my life. And it was written with the
Speaker 4: exact same emotional commitment that I have around my sobriety.
Speaker 4: I literally read the first you know, the Dickens novel.
Speaker 4: I read the script, looked where the songs were going
Speaker 4: to go left it alone for a while. Let my unconscious.
Speaker 4: I'm not procrastinating, I'm percolating. I am leaving my unconscious
Speaker 4: alone with this story and not bugging it. And eventually
Speaker 4: I was. At the time I was dating Keenan Wynn's daughter,
Speaker 4: I was out of her place in Brentwood, and I
Speaker 4: go out into the park with a Lawrence Block novel.
Speaker 4: I love Lawrence Block's writing, a little tape recorder and
Speaker 4: a pencil, and I say, big, amigo.
Speaker 3: Muse, whoever you all are.
Speaker 4: Up there, We're gonna write these songs and let me
Speaker 4: know when you have an idea. And I pick up
Speaker 4: the Lawrence Block novel and I start reading, and about
Speaker 4: three pages in I put it down. I thought, okay.
Speaker 4: The first song Scrooge, we see a door. Of the
Speaker 4: door opens, you see his feet and he walks by
Speaker 4: all these little people that seem to get colder when
Speaker 4: he walks by. Put a boom bum boom boom boom
Speaker 4: boom boom butter boom boom b im.
Speaker 3: Get the rhythm of it. You want to cold wind
Speaker 3: blows it chills you, chills you to the boom.
Speaker 4: Nature. The phrase is your heart like he is a
Speaker 4: being alone.
Speaker 3: That's what you guys are good. That's not bad.
Speaker 4: It paints you with indifference like a lady paints with rouge.
Speaker 4: But the worst of the worst, the most hated. And
Speaker 4: it was because the one that we call screws. Oh,
Speaker 4: there goes mister. But I wrote that much of it
Speaker 4: without writing it down, but it was. It was what
Speaker 4: we were talking about earlier, about the difference between acceptance
Speaker 4: and surrender and really really totally letting go of the moment.
Speaker 4: I mean, if I'm sitting down with Alec Baldwin to
Speaker 4: talk about God knows what we're going to talk about,
Speaker 4: I could give gone into it. I could have wrapped
Speaker 4: myself around my axle a couple of times thinking about that,
Speaker 4: because I would want this to be a really wonderful experience,
Speaker 4: and I was excited about it. But I remember the
Speaker 4: same club as you, and we let things go and
Speaker 4: we trust in the moment and it's exactly what it's
Speaker 4: supposed to be, and it's wonderful.
Speaker 1: And what's interesting to me is that for me, I've
Speaker 1: been overwhelmed, overwhelmed in it maybe joyous way from or
Speaker 1: I'm at now, which is everything has led me to
Speaker 1: where I am right now. Yeah, I don't want to
Speaker 1: go back to my old life. No, No, I love
Speaker 1: what I'm doing now. I don't want to leave my house. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with my kids and then being around them
Speaker 1: and being participatory.
Speaker 4: You have kids, I do have kids, and I was
Speaker 4: not there for my kids when I mean, when you
Speaker 4: know my son doesn't want to have kids, he said, Dad,
Speaker 4: it's like everybody that I know that has kids, they
Speaker 4: get total I mean, at this point, I think he'll
Speaker 4: change his mind, but he says he was a wonderful actorney.
Speaker 4: He said, I also don't want to spend the rest
Speaker 4: of my life auditioning. So he went off and like
Speaker 4: he became a trainer. He was Kamala Harris's private trainer,
Speaker 4: and then didn't go flying around in planes and training
Speaker 4: you know, studio heads and stuff like that. Now he's
Speaker 4: involved in developing plant based foods and at any rate.
Speaker 4: But it's like, you know, Dad, because all my friends,
Speaker 4: when they have kids, that becomes their entire life.
Speaker 3: I said, I escaped that trap.
Speaker 1: I'll show you have it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he said, yeah, you did.
Speaker 4: My daughter, my amazing daughter, Sarah is a therapist. She
Speaker 4: works as in the Office of Victims Advocacy from a
Speaker 4: major university and and she's she's amazing, two beautiful kids.
Speaker 4: And she said, Dad, you were not there. She says,
Speaker 4: I hear them talking about the Pauli Lama, which is
Speaker 4: my nickname and recovery. So so yeah, she says, you're
Speaker 4: the polic She said, I get that. You know, like
Speaker 4: you're anywhere anytime that you're going to help another. I'll
Speaker 4: call it her an addict, she said, But when we
Speaker 4: were kids, you weren't there. But I have to tell
Speaker 4: you something to Dad. When she calls me, Pops, she says, Pops,
Speaker 4: you finally hid full tilt Papa Bear. And I would
Speaker 4: bet that if there's anybody that I can say that to,
Speaker 4: you're going to understand what that means. How wonderful, what
Speaker 4: that's the best review I ever had in my life.
Speaker 1: Now, obviously you've been involved with ASK Captain a member
Speaker 1: as a professional songwriter and so forth. But then you
Speaker 1: become the president of Asking Why and what's the task
Speaker 1: for askcap Now.
Speaker 4: Make sure we're a membership organization of We have over
Speaker 4: a million members, songwriters, composers, lyricists. They've been putting food
Speaker 4: on my table and gas in my car since nineteen
Speaker 4: seventy two. When music is performed there is a performing
Speaker 4: rights we're royalty there and ASKAVS a pro performing rights organization.
Speaker 4: You know, we get to keep the miracle by giving
Speaker 4: it away in that other world that we're a part of.
Speaker 4: That love and services is an intensely rewarding I mean,
Speaker 4: it's absolutely it's a contact because you hear about being
Speaker 4: of service being love and service and all, and it
Speaker 4: sounds like a really wonderful thing.
Speaker 3: To do for the rest of the world. But what
Speaker 3: it does for.
Speaker 4: Me and what every I wrote a line in the
Speaker 4: song once it's said, every act of kindness is a
Speaker 4: little bit of love behind. We left behind. My favorite
Speaker 4: line as far as the philosophy is probably you give
Speaker 4: a little and it all comes back to you. You
Speaker 4: give a little love, then it all comes back. In
Speaker 4: two thousand and one, I was I was hal David
Speaker 4: was a great friend and Hell said, I want you
Speaker 4: to run for the board of AZCAP. And I had
Speaker 4: run for the board of ASCAP a couple of times
Speaker 4: and was not elected. And I mentioned that to him
Speaker 4: and he said, and thank God, because you you know,
Speaker 4: because somebody else was using my body. Then he said,
Speaker 4: but you're a different man now, and I think you
Speaker 4: got to run for ASCAP on the board. I was
Speaker 4: elected to the board in two thousand and one, and eventually,
Speaker 4: you know, became Maryland's vice chair riders Share, and in
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine became president chairman. I was raised
Speaker 4: by a hardcore Republican who my dad called my mom
Speaker 4: that little communist.
Speaker 1: See that little comedy, a little commie.
Speaker 4: I'm at a little comedy. And they lied at least
Speaker 4: every four years. They lied because they'd say, we're going
Speaker 4: to cancel each other. It makes no sense. Let's agree
Speaker 4: to not vote. So they would agree, they would swear,
Speaker 4: you know, they were not going to vote, and as
Speaker 4: soon as the polls closed, they would go, I voted,
Speaker 4: I voted. So I was raised in this household. What
Speaker 4: and And one of the things that happened when I
Speaker 4: was very early on, when I did run for the
Speaker 4: vard and was elected, before I was president, I got
Speaker 4: to know some people that had nothing in common, that
Speaker 4: they that disagree to on almost everything in the world,
Speaker 4: and yet they did meaningful work together. I'm talking about
Speaker 4: like Ted Kennedy and Orton Hatch, who did the Americans
Speaker 4: with Disabilities Act?
Speaker 3: Who did age suffer? Kids?
Speaker 1: Collaborate?
Speaker 4: And because I began to understand a little bit what
Speaker 4: was going on in a very changing worlded as gap,
Speaker 4: I got excited about, you know, being a hood ornament,
Speaker 4: about walking in the halls and going on Paul Williams
Speaker 4: and having somebody like Doug Collins say to me, you
Speaker 4: know your little venus or smoking the Band? I love
Speaker 4: that movie. What can I do for you? Any minute?
Speaker 4: And the next thing you know, he and Hakim Jefferies
Speaker 4: are working on somebody called the Songwriters Equity Act, which
Speaker 4: is going to adjust the rules that we operate under
Speaker 4: so we can get closer to the fair payment for streaming.
Speaker 4: Never made it to the floor, but then we come back.
Speaker 1: Isn't their fair payment for streaming?
Speaker 6: Now?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 4: Well, you know, business is business, you know, like writers
Speaker 4: are not exactly you know, you know, most heads and studios.
Speaker 4: I don't think very luckily wake up in the middle
Speaker 4: of the night and go, God, I gotta take better
Speaker 4: care of the writers, you know. I just you know, honey,
Speaker 4: I think about that, and.
Speaker 1: Honey, why can't you sleep? I just keep thinking about
Speaker 1: the writers.
Speaker 4: Keep thinking about the writers. You know those pesky songwriters
Speaker 4: or you know, they have kids, and I suppose they
Speaker 4: should be able to feed them.
Speaker 1: I need to help them.
Speaker 4: But the thing is that there is no music business
Speaker 4: without a song. Without music and the opportunity to really
Speaker 4: work on a daily basis and an amaze staff I
Speaker 4: mean Ascaps one hundred and ten years old, but to
Speaker 4: be able to show up. And I have friends on
Speaker 4: both sides of the island, and this is not a
Speaker 4: collaborative environment we're living in right now.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like Terry Everson.
Speaker 4: You know, it's a cell phone and a foxhold, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean ASCAT. We have you know, amazing, amazing writers,
Speaker 4: you know, like Beyonce and Paul McCartney and the like.
Speaker 4: But we also have a lot of blue collar writers
Speaker 4: like I am, like I was. I've had great success,
Speaker 4: but I'm a blue collar writer. I write songs. You
Speaker 4: got something, you need a song? I love sitting down
Speaker 4: and chasing the words.
Speaker 1: Now, just to harken back a little bit to you
Speaker 1: in the studio with people, I mean, one of the
Speaker 1: people who just put a spell on me, like many people,
Speaker 1: was Karen Carpenter, And of course I was just sickened
Speaker 1: by how she died, And yeah, were you ever in
Speaker 1: the studio with her when she was recording?
Speaker 4: They did not hover while I was writing. I did
Speaker 4: not hover while they were recording, but I but I
Speaker 4: would get a phone call. You know the great thing
Speaker 4: about Karen and Richard when we were introduced to them,
Speaker 4: they opened up the door, said, this is Karen and Richard.
Speaker 4: I think you know it was herb Alpert and Chuck
Speaker 4: Kay introducing the two of them to Roger and I.
Speaker 3: Nobody knew who we were.
Speaker 4: And Karen and Richard when we loved your Steve Lawrence
Speaker 4: got the Drifter, and we loved rowing pony By, you know,
Speaker 4: I mean they knew all these songs we'd written that
Speaker 4: nobody knew. I mean it was like never been on
Speaker 4: the radio, but they were fans. When the phone would
Speaker 4: ring and it would be Karen Love be in my
Speaker 4: office with Roger we're writing, and she'd be over in
Speaker 4: the recording studiency you want to hear, and you go
Speaker 4: over there and you hear. I mean rainy days on Mondays.
Speaker 4: Let me be the one. I want less to deal
Speaker 4: with it. You know, it's like and when an angel
Speaker 4: sings your songs, your life changes.
Speaker 1: Oh god, and in that way that you mentioned about Crosby,
Speaker 1: when you're writing for Crosby. Whatever, it's been a while,
Speaker 1: I think this is still the This is accurate. What's
Speaker 1: a Nick Tosh's book about Dean Martin. He wrote that
Speaker 1: great biography of Dean Mark Goldino and he says that
Speaker 1: Martin puts a record on the turntable by it's bing Crosby.
Speaker 1: They takes it off, and he puts one of his
Speaker 1: arm and they takes that off and he puts Alvis Presley.
Speaker 3: He goes.
Speaker 1: You see that we're all doing the same thing here, right,
Speaker 1: He's doing me, I'm doing this. We're all doing world crooners.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: And the fact is that the great thing about what
Speaker 4: I think we do is you don't have to give
Speaker 4: up your fan cards. So if I'm in a room
Speaker 4: in Quincy Walks and I, oh my god, there's Q
Speaker 4: and that maybe which you see on the service, but
Speaker 4: inside there's apartment that's going, I'm like, God, that's Quincy Jones.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: At this point in my life, it's like that whole thing,
Speaker 4: you know, that whole thing with Scrooge writing for Scrooge.
Speaker 4: One of the great examples of what's turning in my
Speaker 4: life is that I'm asked to write songs about somebody
Speaker 4: who's having his spiritual awakening while I'm having a spiritual.
Speaker 1: Awakening live from the front.
Speaker 4: Absolutely in the fresh in my chest is gratitude, and
Speaker 4: I'm writing thing I get up in the morning and
Speaker 4: I say, lead me where you need me.
Speaker 1: Let me just end by saying, do you have any
Speaker 1: idea how talented you are? Did you really own that
Speaker 1: in your life? I've just sat there and go, Man,
Speaker 1: You've done some amazing things, beautiful things. Do you have
Speaker 1: any idea how talented you are? Do you kind of
Speaker 1: enjoy that a bit?
Speaker 4: I wish I could introduce you to all of them.
Speaker 4: I wish I could introduce you to the kid that
Speaker 4: watched a movie about Jane froman called with a Song
Speaker 4: of My Heart and wound up like walking into it
Speaker 4: my office the first time at ASCAP, and on the
Speaker 4: wall next to my thing was the printed sheet music
Speaker 4: from with a Song of My Heart. I was the
Speaker 4: first thing with music in it that I ever loved.
Speaker 4: In that there's some sort of magic going on here.
Speaker 4: I haven't quite figured it out yet, but that seems
Speaker 4: to be one of the things that I am most
Speaker 4: open to is right now, it just come to me
Speaker 4: when you need to. With this one. This may be
Speaker 4: the last big journey whatever, but I think that it's absolutely,
Speaker 4: absolutely magical, and I don't think that we could have
Speaker 4: planned any of it. And at the same token, in
Speaker 4: early sobriety, I've read the writing of Emmett Fox, and
Speaker 4: he talks about what we dwell on, we create, that
Speaker 4: thoughts become things. And if you are inspired, you know
Speaker 4: in a fashion that is loving, you know, and to
Speaker 4: the highest good of all concerned. What you dwell on
Speaker 4: you may experience soon in your life or perhaps later.
Speaker 4: Phantom of the Paradise opened to nobody in the theater
Speaker 4: and they closed the can Film Festival with it this year.
Speaker 4: Sometimes a dream doesn't come until you're all about just
Speaker 4: ready to walk away from this life and you go, wow,
Speaker 4: there's still some wow moments left, I know, for both
Speaker 4: of us, and I admire you.
Speaker 3: There's not a word yet for old friends. You just man,
Speaker 3: there you go, you got it.
Speaker 1: Thank you. My thanks to musicians, songwriter and actor Williams.
Speaker 1: I'll leave you with a little more of Paul Williams
Speaker 1: performing I won't last a day without you. I'm Alec Baldwin.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing that's brought to you by iHeart Radio.
Speaker 5: And there's no getting on that range.
Speaker 2: When my storm lust, the dreams won't go one d bucketing.
Speaker 1: Madness, the world lesting you.
Speaker 2: But I want less today without you