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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the

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Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: Just an old fashioned love song playing on the radio

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Speaker 2: and wrapped around the music.

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Speaker 1: That's my guest today, Paul Williams performing just an old

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Speaker 1: fashioned love song from his nineteen seventy one album of

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Speaker 1: the same name.

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Speaker 3: You'll swear you've.

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Speaker 2: Heard it before as it slowly rambles on and on.

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Speaker 2: No need in bringing him back because they've never rele

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Speaker 2: egged one.

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Speaker 3: Just an old.

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Speaker 2: Fashioned love song.

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Speaker 1: Williams is an Oscar, Grammy and Golden Globe winning songwriter, musicians, singer,

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Speaker 1: and actor. He's known for songs like Evergreen, We've Only

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Speaker 1: Just Begun and Rainbow Connection. He's also written the score

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Speaker 1: and lyrics for renowned films such as Barbara Streisand's version

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Speaker 1: of A Star Is Born, Bugsy Malone, The Phantom of

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Speaker 1: the Paradise, and The Muppet Movie. His work has been

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Speaker 1: recorded by legendary artists like Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, The Carpenters,

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Speaker 1: and Kermit the Frog. Paul Williams is also the current

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Speaker 1: President and Chairman of the American Songwriting Society ASCAP. With

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Speaker 1: such an illustrious career that spans generations. I wondered what

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Speaker 1: brilliant new work Williams has been conjuring up these days.

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Speaker 4: The most recent thing is I'm doing Pans Labyrinth for

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Speaker 4: this stage with Giama del Toro.

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Speaker 3: Wow and wonderful.

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Speaker 4: We've been working on it for years because he goes

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Speaker 4: aways and does movies and then whatever like that job,

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Speaker 4: and it's just I'm like, I finally went, you know what,

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Speaker 4: I fucking surrender. I'm going to take it out of

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Speaker 4: my bio. I mean, if it happens, it's wonderful. I mean,

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Speaker 4: we've Gustavo Santo a Lion, I've written the songs, we've got,

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Speaker 4: if anything, we've overridden them all, and it's like, if

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Speaker 4: it happens, this is magnificent. If it doesn't happen, then

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Speaker 4: there's something better. I totally surrender. The next morning, at

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Speaker 4: eight am in the morning, I got an email from

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Speaker 4: Geinnimo's partners and that that JJ Abrams was going to

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Speaker 4: produce and I mean that more that that's good.

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Speaker 3: Instant Surrender's a good group. You know, you JJ pretty

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Speaker 3: good to me, you know, but it's you know, and

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Speaker 3: it's like I'm eighty four, you know.

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Speaker 1: You ain't stopping. Oh man, all my friends who are

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Speaker 1: successful who have rounded that corner at eighty, Laurene Michaels,

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Speaker 1: this one, that one, all turned eighty this year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they all have the same thing, especially Lauren, I would

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Speaker 1: imagine because he's so successful. He's at the height of

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Speaker 1: his success, and it's like these guys are like, I'm

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Speaker 1: not done. You know, you say when you want to

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Speaker 1: slow down and stop, it like stop, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to stop. They go to the twenty years if they could.

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Speaker 4: You know, if I was sitting on my porch shilling

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Speaker 4: and get get off my law, I'd be dead. My

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Speaker 4: wife puts up with me what she calls it growling,

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Speaker 4: because I'm like she said, it's like you unconsciously have

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Speaker 4: to keep There's something about music that keeps going because

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Speaker 4: in my now, because I can't hear, I don't perform

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Speaker 4: much anymore because finding the notice is like like Shakespeare

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Speaker 4: and drug tragedy. But in my head I'm hearing Dada

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Speaker 4: and it's coming out, so it's like, I mean, it's pathetic.

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Speaker 1: But here's what I want to ask you when I

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Speaker 1: look at you for this show, because I'm I'm obviously

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Speaker 1: you know who you are. I know your career, I

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Speaker 1: know you're to Palma movie. I know all that stuff

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Speaker 1: from when I was younger. And when I look at you,

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Speaker 1: you seem like the coolest guy in the world. Like

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Speaker 1: everybody would go with you and go party and they'd

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Speaker 1: have the greatest time. The music and you're funny and

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Speaker 1: you know all these Did you feel that way? Did

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Speaker 1: you have a run where you just had so much fun?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Well, and the thing is, who is that I wanted

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Speaker 4: to be with? There was a guy named her Pacheco,

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Speaker 4: was a buddy who became a road manager. We used

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Speaker 4: to joke we called him the Bison because he looked

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Speaker 4: like the Indian and made it with a buffalo, and

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Speaker 4: he was what happened with the Bison. Her Pacheco, he

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Speaker 4: played my bodyguarden foundom of the Paradise and he used

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Speaker 4: to buy, you know, like he was an extra who

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Speaker 4: did a little bit of stunt work that kind of thing,

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Speaker 4: you know, and just the coolest guy in the world,

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Speaker 4: I mean, just amazing. And he knew everybody because he

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Speaker 4: bought you know, like he you know, when he did

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Speaker 4: the greatest story ever told in the desert. He was

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Speaker 4: getting everybody their grass, you know, well not everybody but

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Speaker 4: the hippists of the hippists, right. And he introduced me

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Speaker 4: to Bob Mitcham. That's everything I wanted in my life

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Speaker 4: is that is to have some of the guy that

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Speaker 4: used to buy, used to sell, you know, get grass

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Speaker 4: for Bob Mitcham. So I met I met Bob Mitcham

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Speaker 4: and he was shooting a picture in London. It was

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Speaker 4: a very Noah kind of a picture.

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Speaker 3: We hit it off.

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Speaker 4: He called me dough boy, and I was, you know,

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Speaker 4: I did a lot of blow. I did a lot

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Speaker 4: of vodka. I can never have been able to smoke

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Speaker 4: grass because I turn into it like I just you know,

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Speaker 4: I am curled up behind my shout and not in bed,

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Speaker 4: but under the bed going because you know, peeking out

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Speaker 4: the edition blinds, looking at the tree police because they're

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Speaker 4: coming for me. I mean, I just go right for

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Speaker 4: that gun. I'm scared exactly that. And the furniture is

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Speaker 4: talking about me. You know, that's absolutely true.

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Speaker 3: But he was.

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Speaker 4: He called me dough boy, you like, and he always

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Speaker 4: have a joint with him and he goes, do boy,

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Speaker 4: this is no good, but you're gonna love it. I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna probaly can't. I don't do I don't you know

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Speaker 4: even no, no, no, this is no you got it,

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Speaker 4: you got it. This is so fucking mild here and

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Speaker 4: you have a.

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Speaker 3: Hit of it.

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Speaker 4: And then he had tossed me the car keys, which

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Speaker 4: looked like a satellite coming through the air, you know,

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Speaker 4: and he had say, you know, I'm really fucked up.

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Speaker 3: You're gonna have to.

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Speaker 4: Drive, and I would and then they would just laugh

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Speaker 4: at me, you know. But that was to me, that

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Speaker 4: was maybe the peak of my If there was any

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Speaker 4: time that I felt cool, it was then. The other

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Speaker 4: times were when I would do almost anything to make

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Speaker 4: her really love me because she was so cool, and

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Speaker 4: so I said things. I mean, I said stuff on

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Speaker 4: the Tonight Show. It was just kind of you know.

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Speaker 4: I didn't edit myself very much, and I made the

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Speaker 4: band laugh and I made you know, Johnny laughed, you know,

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Speaker 4: the atire. I can't remember the name of the producer.

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Speaker 1: Of the Cordova.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Freddy Kordadeva. I would sit there and go,

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Speaker 4: why do you have to do it? After sits down

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Speaker 4: next to me, she says, I just kept go back

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Speaker 4: from Maine.

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Speaker 3: It was my family.

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Speaker 4: We did this amazing thing where we clean the entire

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Speaker 4: house and huge place in all and we did it

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Speaker 4: in four days. And I said, the family is in amphetamines.

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Speaker 4: You know, they made a fortunate at it. And Freddy's like,

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Speaker 4: why do you do that? I don't know, I believe

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Speaker 4: that out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, my wife Caanna reminded me when we first met,

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Speaker 4: she said, I really loved you based on one thing

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Speaker 4: you said that I thought was really unusual and interesting.

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Speaker 4: On the Tonight show, she said, you described yourself as

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Speaker 4: a combination of Oscar Levan and Donnie Osmond, like trying

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Speaker 4: to exclude you know, who knows what. But I've been

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Speaker 4: a construction brat. I went to a new was I

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Speaker 4: went to ninth schools. By the time I was in

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Speaker 4: the ninth grade, my dad was going around the builder,

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Speaker 4: you know, and he drank and he would get me

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Speaker 4: up in the middle of the night, just saying, you know,

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Speaker 4: for his buddy like McShane, who hated me. Incidentally, all

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Speaker 4: he wanted to do was get privately fried, and he

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Speaker 4: didn't want to hear some gnomes singing Danny Boy. But

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Speaker 4: my dad would get me up to sing. And people

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Speaker 4: always said in one of these days, you're going to

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Speaker 4: kill yourself. You're going to kill these kids because you're

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Speaker 4: driving like that. He was a big, sweet, sentimental drunk

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Speaker 4: you dad, My daddy looks your mom. My mom was

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Speaker 4: was just a sweet and wet hands and an apron mom,

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 1: And he died you that he.

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Speaker 4: Drove his car under the abovement of a bridge, went

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Speaker 4: through the windshield.

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Speaker 3: Died a week later.

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Speaker 4: When I was thirteen, and I was shipped off to

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Speaker 4: live with an aunt and uncle, who I found out

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Speaker 4: later he hated her and that they didn't get along.

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Speaker 4: But she told me, look, if you go back to

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Speaker 4: live with your mom, your brother's going to starve because

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Speaker 4: she can't afford both of you. So I want you

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Speaker 4: to write your mom told it you want to stay here,

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Speaker 4: which is the last thing I wanted.

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Speaker 3: So it's my childhood was rest.

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Speaker 1: To confront some tough things at a young age.

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Speaker 3: Dickensiean, you know.

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Speaker 1: So you are persuaded that this is the best thing

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Speaker 1: financially for your mother, so you stay.

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Speaker 4: With the California to stay with the ant And the

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Speaker 4: fact is what part of California Long Beach, down Long Beach,

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Speaker 4: And you know, I had been I've been one of

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Speaker 4: those little kids who wanted to sing. I'd stand on

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Speaker 4: my mom would turn her back on me at a

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Speaker 4: department store and I'd be telling somebody I can sing,

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Speaker 4: I can sing, and she'd find me standing on a

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Speaker 4: counter with a little bunch of money around my feet.

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Speaker 4: But after my dad, it was gone. Music was gone.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, I just your heart's on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: All I knew is that I wanted, you know, A

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Speaker 4: good therapist has said a couple of them have said,

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Speaker 4: you wanted to be somebody else, you know. And I

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Speaker 4: was also really you know when I was This is

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Speaker 4: a huge, a big part of my story is that

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Speaker 4: when I was about eight or nine, I was really tiny.

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Speaker 4: My dad was like, should he be running under coffee

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Speaker 4: tables at this age, you know? And she said no,

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Speaker 4: I'm not taking to the doctor. So there was a

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Speaker 4: country doctor who said I can make this kid grow,

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Speaker 4: and he gave me a male hormone. Wrong thing to

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Speaker 4: do because it kind of closes off with the bones.

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Speaker 4: But it also kicked me into a premature puberty. And

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Speaker 4: suddenly I have no interest in my toy chest, but

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Speaker 4: my hand in his chest is suddenly yeah, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 4: and they spot down there. All I wanted to do

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Speaker 4: is get let's get asking little girls. Let's get in

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Speaker 4: the closet and kiss like they do in the movies.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: The thing is that when they took me off of

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Speaker 4: the hormones and all, it screwed up my body clock.

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Speaker 4: So I didn't hit puberty televes like out of high school.

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Speaker 4: You know, So you stunted your growth physically.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: All I know is that I'm thrilled to be who

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Speaker 4: I am, and you know it's all been a gift

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Speaker 4: and it's all worked for me.

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Speaker 1: But if what you've done creatively and what you've done

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Speaker 1: just because there's a there's what I consider the performer's spirit,

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Speaker 1: no matter how great they are talent wise. Patty Lapone

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Speaker 1: is great, but she just has this extra block of

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Speaker 1: some energy, some weird fissionable energy, which you have. You

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Speaker 1: are a real performer. You can sing, you can act,

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Speaker 1: you can do anything. When people go back and look

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Speaker 1: at the songs you want, it's like almost unbelievable.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm a songwriter because of Robert Devall. I believe

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Speaker 4: it's a really weird story. Well, first of all, you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm in Long Reach and everything. I graduate, I go

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Speaker 4: home for a couple of years whatever, and head back

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Speaker 4: to Hollywood to try to make it. I get cast

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Speaker 4: in a movie called The Loved One, you know I

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Speaker 4: did playing in Long Beach.

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Speaker 3: They got good reviews from.

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Speaker 4: The LA Examiner, you know, said Pauliams has a rare

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Speaker 4: gift of seeming spontaneous in the theater. I took that line,

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Speaker 4: memorized it and showed it everybody and got an agent.

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Speaker 4: So I did The Loved One, and then two years later,

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Speaker 4: just like that, I got another acting job on a

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Speaker 4: movie called The Chase. Marlon Browno, Robert Redford, jun fond.

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Speaker 4: I mean a huge picture. So we're shooting at night.

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Speaker 4: They've got everybody is older than eighteen, but looks younger.

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Speaker 4: I'm playing a sixteen year old, and you know, I

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Speaker 4: mean the script is they're going to develop your store,

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Speaker 4: going to develop your story.

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Speaker 3: They didn't really, But.

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Speaker 4: In the meantime, I'm sharing the dressing room with a

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Speaker 4: guy named Mark Seaton, his dad with George, seeing the

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Speaker 4: director a lot of money, beautiful guitar that he's got

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Speaker 4: Martin guitar I picked up. He says, don't touch the guitar.

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Speaker 3: It's Martin.

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Speaker 4: I said, I didn't know they had names, you know,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I didn't know Martin guitar. But I went

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Speaker 4: on my ball, wanted a little cheap guitar. Or I

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Speaker 4: painted it like like a stained glass window. And I'm

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Speaker 4: teaching myself chords. So one night they're shooting of the

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Speaker 4: scene where the US kids have set fire to a junkyard.

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Speaker 3: The Bubba reeves it was Robert Redford is.

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Speaker 4: Hiding in the in the junkyard, and I've got my

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Speaker 4: little guitar sitting on the steps of the world's smallest

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Speaker 4: motor home, a Teardrop motor home, and I'm just making

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Speaker 4: stuff up, looking for the chord, and I go, bubbah

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Speaker 4: blah blah blah bah, come out wherever you are. Oh,

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Speaker 4: we're gone a calm man and get you. Yes, we're

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Speaker 4: gone to come man and get you. And Robert Duvall

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Speaker 4: is walking by, and Robert Duvall says, what's that. I said,

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Speaker 4: it's the guitar.

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Speaker 3: I just boughted. He went out the guitar. What were

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Speaker 3: you singing?

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Speaker 4: And it's it's Robert Coke and Robert Davalla. I said,

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Speaker 4: I just made it up and I'm convinced. I'm at

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Speaker 4: this point, I'm in trouble. Maybe you're not supposed to

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Speaker 4: be singing on a set. And he said, come with me,

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Speaker 4: and now I'm now I'm nervous. He walks me over

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Speaker 4: to the heart of the set where they're shooting, and

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Speaker 4: Arthur Penny whispered some of him. He said, show him

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Speaker 4: to me, and I said, it's the guitar. I just

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Speaker 4: it's just why it's not the guitar.

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Speaker 1: So I keep making this staff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So I go blab blah blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 4: Well I get two like those two lines out and

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Speaker 4: he says, come over here, stand by the barbed wire,

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Speaker 4: light them up and lights up all the gas fires

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Speaker 4: and they shoot it. They shoot me in the back

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Speaker 4: of the roadster. They he shoots me about four different places,

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Speaker 4: maybe three places, and singing those two lines, and it's

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Speaker 4: in the movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or we'll come in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, You're gonna come in and get you that again.

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Speaker 4: You're any human being that is woke as to use

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Speaker 4: a phrase would have immediately gone, okay, acting isn't working

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Speaker 4: for me. It's been two years since the last job.

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Speaker 4: This is I mean it's but I'm sure I had

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Speaker 4: no idea that it was going to be in the

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Speaker 4: movie until it came out, and it may have been.

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Speaker 3: Two years later.

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Speaker 4: It took me probably two years to start writing songs,

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Speaker 4: but I somehow that just became my journal.

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Speaker 3: It was my therapy.

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Speaker 1: Had you written songs before? But eventually you get to

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Speaker 1: a point. Do you play piano horribly?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I mean when I sit down on my

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Speaker 4: band would actually walk off stage. If I sat at

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Speaker 4: the piano, they go. I started wrinning on guitar, but basically,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I'm just sitting at home. I brought my

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Speaker 4: mother out to take care of her because I thought,

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Speaker 4: you know, I'm gonna know I'm on the chase side.

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Speaker 3: It is all gonna be a big career. Nothing. I

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Speaker 3: don't even have a phone.

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Speaker 4: But I get hired to do as an improvisational actor

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Speaker 4: on the Mortsaul Show. Mortsol had a local television show

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Speaker 4: and it was all about the Kennedy assassination. It's all

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Speaker 4: about the warrant commission. It was all about New Orleans

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Speaker 4: and all that anyway. So he brought me in and

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Speaker 4: I played a boy scout, an eagle scout who goes

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Speaker 4: in to get his Eagle Scout stuff and gets recruited

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Speaker 4: by the president, and the guy named Biff Rows plays

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Speaker 4: a chicken delight. Guy comes in and he gets recruited,

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Speaker 4: and the two of the men we started writing together.

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Speaker 4: We wrote about four songs. He wrote, played me a song.

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Speaker 4: He said, this is funny, and that's not funny, it's pretty.

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Speaker 4: He said, well, write words to it then, so we did.

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Speaker 4: We wrote, we did some acid, we wrote some words whatever,

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Speaker 4: and he went to A and M Records and played

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Speaker 4: him a bunch of songs and they gave him some

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Speaker 4: an advance publishing deal. And as he's walking out the door,

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Speaker 4: he says, there's a couple of songs there that I

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Speaker 4: wrote with another guy. I wrote the words, and he said, well,

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Speaker 4: give me his number, of all call him. He's never food,

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Speaker 4: but I'll tell him, so I will go in. The

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Speaker 4: song was called fill your Heart, and within about a

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Speaker 4: week after I signed a deal with him, was recorded

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Speaker 4: on the B side of the Tiny tim album or

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Speaker 4: Tiny Tipto through the Tulos, which they turned over and

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Speaker 4: played I mean, I'm like, I love tiny but that's

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Speaker 4: not what I want to be. I mean, if I'm

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Speaker 4: but one of the great things that we just cannot

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Speaker 4: plot our lives. You know, you can't plan it. It was

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Speaker 4: recorded years later by David boy Song on Hunky Dory

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Speaker 4: album and it was like, thank you God.

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Speaker 1: Musician, songwriter and actor Paul Williams. If you enjoy conversations

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Speaker 1: with legendary musicians, check out my interview with Gordon Lightfoot.

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Speaker 6: One summer I wrote that song Sundowner. I knew that

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Speaker 6: it was going to happen, and it didn't work up

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Speaker 6: to number one. That was our second one. Then it

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Speaker 6: was two albums later that we had the rec of

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Speaker 6: the Edmin Fitzgerald that became a responsibility. It did because

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Speaker 6: only one verse contained any conjecture of any kind of

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Speaker 6: the rest of it was taken from directly from newspaper

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Speaker 6: articles and the aftermath, which only lasted for about three days.

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Speaker 6: If I had not wrote that song, everybody would have

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Speaker 6: forgotten about it a week after it happened.

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Speaker 1: To hear more of my conversation with Gordon Lightfoot, go

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Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, Paul

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Speaker 1: Williams shares how a jingle for a bank commercial turned

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Speaker 1: into the song We've Only Just Begun I'm Alec Baldwin,

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Speaker 1: and this is Here's the thing. Paul Williams has written

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Speaker 1: countless iconic songs like You and Me, against the World,

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Speaker 1: Rainy Days and Mondays, and one of my personal favorites,

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Speaker 1: I Won't Last a Day without You. I was curious

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Speaker 1: about the process behind creating such legendary work and how

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Speaker 1: Paul Williams got his start as a lyricist.

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Speaker 4: The whole point when they signed me at A and

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Speaker 4: M Records is they were looking for a lyricist for

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Speaker 4: a guy at six foot four basketball player and scholarship whatever.

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Speaker 4: Guy that was a piano player named Roger Nichols, Roger Nichols,

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Speaker 4: and I wrote like he gave me a melody, and

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Speaker 4: he said, you know, we're looking for a lyricist for Roger.

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Speaker 4: And he gave me a melody, says take it home

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Speaker 4: to see what you think of it. At ten o'clock

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Speaker 4: the next morning, I was there with a lyric for it,

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Speaker 4: and he said, really, And so I wrote a lyric

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Speaker 4: called It's hard to say goodbye, to turn away with

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Speaker 4: no regrets, no regrets for fears, no good byes, to

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Speaker 4: say love just never seems to work. That it was

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Speaker 4: Clauding Large. So the same day I had Clauding Lage

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Speaker 4: and Tiny Tam. What kind of a songwriter am I?

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Speaker 4: But Roger and I wrote album cuts, B sides, nothing

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Speaker 4: on it for like maybe three years, and I have

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Speaker 4: to tell you that one day there's a knock of

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Speaker 4: the door and it's the head of publishing and he's

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Speaker 4: got two kids with him. He said, this is Karen

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Speaker 4: and Richard Carpenter and there are newest artists. So we

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Speaker 4: started feeding them as songs. The first thing they recorded

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Speaker 4: was they had a B side, too Close to You.

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Speaker 4: And then the next thing we wrote a song for

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Speaker 4: a commercial that we expanded to a full song. I

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Speaker 4: sang in the commercial commercial for a bank. Richard saw

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Speaker 4: it said, is there a full song? We've only just begune?

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Speaker 4: So we've only just begune rainyties and mondays, I won't

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Speaker 4: last a day without you?

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Speaker 1: Now tell me about that? How did he Lane make

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Speaker 1: come to you? And obviously the big red hot Warren Houser.

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Speaker 4: Warren had asked me to write a song for Heaving

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Speaker 4: Can Wait, and I, you know, I looked at the

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Speaker 4: picture or whatever. I said, you don't need you don't

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Speaker 4: need a song you got chery rebat. He did that,

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Speaker 4: you know, I said, that's that, you know? So I

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Speaker 4: you know, and I've done that two or three times.

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Speaker 4: I'm really proud of it because if I look at

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Speaker 4: a picture and I go doesn't need a song, then

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Speaker 4: I know I have a chance to I I can

402
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Speaker 4: either make some a bunch of money and write a

403
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Speaker 4: song it doesn't work, or I can you know, or

404
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Speaker 4: I can you know?

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Speaker 3: Trust it? Another one is going to come.

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Speaker 4: So you know, I said no, and which I think

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Speaker 4: oppressed him. And when it came up to time for

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Speaker 4: his star, he thought about me write the songs for

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Speaker 4: the movie because he thought it was funny.

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Speaker 3: And it's not choice, it was his idea. It was

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Speaker 3: his idea.

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Speaker 4: So Warren and I met, and it took forever to

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Speaker 4: give him to give me the job. It's like, you know,

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Speaker 4: it's like wark, you know, it's like, can we begin

415
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Speaker 4: to talk about actually doing this?

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Speaker 3: Because teen chapel.

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Speaker 1: With them every day, every fucking everything.

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Speaker 3: So but Elaine.

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Speaker 4: I met Elaine and I started writing songs and she

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Speaker 4: Elaine is magnificent and shooting with Warren and Dustin. She

421
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Speaker 4: shoots so many takes and never tell them what she wants.

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00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 4: She said, I'll see you. I'll know it when I

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Speaker 4: see it. What do you want? I'll know what do

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Speaker 4: you want? I'll know when I hear it. So I'm

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Speaker 4: writing songs. I'm writing songs.

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Speaker 3: She's going on. I don't know.

427
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Speaker 4: He puts me up at the wall door from there

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Speaker 4: for weeks writing songs, and you know, And then I

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Speaker 4: wrote a song called that a lawnmower Can Do All

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Speaker 4: that I will illustrate Saturday morning. The sound of a

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Speaker 4: lawnmower touches my soul, touches my soul, brings back the

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Speaker 4: memory of first summer love of will and me will

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Speaker 4: end me. That a lawnmower can do all that that

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Speaker 4: alon More can do, all that that alawn More can do,

435
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 4: all that It's amazing. She leans forward, and then I sing.

436
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 4: I can see her standing in the backyard of my mind.

437
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 4: She cracks her knuckles in this scab Thatt's on her knee,

438
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 4: won't go away. I can see the woman waiting in

439
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,119
Speaker 4: her eyes, and I can see the love, but I

440
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,159
Speaker 4: can't see the Brooklyn Dodgers in la She went done.

441
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,200
Speaker 4: That's exactly what I want.

442
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 6: You know.

443
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 4: What she wanted was something that was good that gets

444
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 4: screwed up. Telling the truth can be dangerous business. Honest

445
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 4: and popular don't go hand in hand. If you admit

446
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 4: that you can play the accordion, no one will hire

447
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,400
Speaker 4: you in a rock and roll band. Two mismatched songwriters

448
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 4: working together, and I approached it. I mean I think

449
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,159
Speaker 4: I wrote thirty five songs for it, and she wanted

450
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,119
Speaker 4: to hear the entire song for two lines in the movie.

451
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 4: She wanted to hear Warren and Dustin singing instead of me,

452
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 4: because she's when you singing, it sounds like a song.

453
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,400
Speaker 3: It was a wonderful job.

454
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 1: But like when you're on The Carson Show in the

455
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,679
Speaker 1: makeup from the Planet of the Apes thing, one of

456
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,360
Speaker 1: the things I learned about you is that you've got

457
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: to be a really talented songwriter to write bad songs,

458
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 1: and you got to be a really talented singer to

459
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:18,360
Speaker 1: sing badly.

460
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,640
Speaker 3: We'll give the fact it's about. It's got to be.

461
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 4: About believable, though, and I approached I totally approached his star.

462
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 4: As an actor, I wouldn't have it Chuck, and I

463
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 4: wouldn't have it Lyle, and they had different different backstories.

464
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:35,679
Speaker 3: You know.

465
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 4: I spent so much time in front of the camera

466
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 4: in the seventies. In the eighties, somebody else was using

467
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 4: my body, so I wasn't working much. But I mean

468
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 4: I did so much live action, bad cartoon acting. And

469
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 4: you know, I just spent two years with Billy Bob

470
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:57,199
Speaker 4: on Goliath, and it's like, I mean, that level, the

471
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 4: level you work at, the level that he works at,

472
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 4: is there's no imitation, there's no acting. It's it's it's

473
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 4: feeling and inhabiting, and it's just there's nothing that excites.

474
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 3: Me more then.

475
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 4: I mean, the idea of playing a scene with Bruce,

476
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 4: you know, is just God.

477
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: You You've done so many TV spots, Your acting career

478
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: is like an iceberg in most people's minds, and then

479
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,479
Speaker 1: don't realize you've done countless guest spots and you know,

480
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 1: smoking in the band. Was he fun to shoot with?

481
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 3: Oh my god? Yeah.

482
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,239
Speaker 4: Well, you know, first of all, it's Pat McCormick, and

483
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 4: I Pat McCormick is one of my best friends, you know.

484
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 4: So I'm visiting Pat and when he was the chief

485
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 4: writer on the monologue writer on The Tonight Show. So

486
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 4: I'd go over and I'd do some game show or something.

487
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 4: I'm with you know, doing Hollywood Squares or something. Then

488
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 4: I'd run over. I mean, I did forty eight Tonight shows.

489
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 4: But I'd also just show over to hang out with Pat.

490
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 4: And I'm standing with Pat off just talking.

491
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: About the extent up comic Pat McCormick, Pat.

492
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 4: Mccormay, Pat Pat McCormick six foot six, played my dad.

493
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 4: He played my dad, very funny, one of the funniest

494
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 4: writers in the world and performing and perform and one

495
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 4: of the sweetest human beings in the world. And dangers

496
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 4: to hanging out with because we never slept, you know.

497
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 4: So I'm over there, you know, leaning against the wall

498
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 4: or something with Pat McCormick and Burt Reynolds looks at

499
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 4: the two of us and goes, oh my god, I

500
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 4: got an idea. So that's what he put us together

501
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 4: to begin his little meetings. Dad, I'd like to kick

502
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 4: kids ass just once, just you know, I'm gonna tell

503
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 4: you what now, Your mommy is so ugly. It was just,

504
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 4: you know, And so we did three of them. I mean,

505
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 4: they kept giving us more smoking the band at one,

506
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 4: two and even worse. There was no story it was,

507
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 4: but it was one time I showed up second or

508
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 4: the third one, got off the plane, got in the car,

509
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 4: was driven to the hospitats. We stayed on McCormick standing

510
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 4: outside of his house phone and it goes, this is

511
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 4: the best time I've ever had on a movie.

512
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 3: I've already been rolled because you have blood on his shirt.

513
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: Talk about rainbow connection. I mean, for you, music is music.

514
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter where it lays into the project.

515
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 4: When I met Jim Henson, I went over and did

516
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 4: the Muppet Show in England, and you know, I was

517
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 4: never a kid that was in a gang that had

518
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 4: a treehouse. When I walked on the set of the

519
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 4: Muppet Show, I was with a gang that had a treehouse.

520
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 4: Who was the most wonderful? I mean there was an energy.

521
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 4: First of all, did you ever work with him? Did

522
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 4: you ever work with the Muppets?

523
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 6: No?

524
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 4: Oh, you would have put him be in a perfect

525
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 4: fit because you're just crazy enough. You have an edgy

526
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 4: you know, you'll do anything. But the thing is that

527
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 4: there is a creative freedom. What was unique I think

528
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 4: about about Jim Henson is that he let us breathe.

529
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 4: But anyway, we had a good time on the show,

530
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 4: and he said there's a thing called him an Outter's

531
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 4: jug Band Christmas. We're going to shoot it's it's a

532
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 4: Christmas show, a one hour thing, and I'd like you

533
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 4: to write the songs for it. I wrote the songs

534
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 4: for it. It's actually at this point now I says

535
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 4: stage play as well. But I think it was my

536
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 4: audition for the Muffet movie. So he loved the songs

537
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 4: for the first one. So we we said, I want

538
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 4: you to do the Muppet movie. I said, I want

539
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 4: to bring a guy named Kenny Asheron to write the

540
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 4: songs with me. Kenny and I wrote most of the

541
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 4: songs for A Star is Born with Barbarus Dreisen his

542
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 4: music my words. And I had a great relations for him.

543
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 4: We've been working on an unproduced musical about Dorothy Parker.

544
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 4: We were, you know, it was like he buildst Ive

545
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 4: felt better. It was that kind of a relationship, you know,

546
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 4: And so I brought him in and this is this

547
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 4: is Jim Hansen, Jim Henson is opened my place in

548
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 4: the Hollywood Hills with you know, with Frank Oz and

549
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 4: we're talking about where the songs go. We're kind of

550
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 4: spotting the picture in advance because you have to previews

551
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 4: or the songs if they're performed on screen. And I

552
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 4: walked him to the to the car and I said,

553
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 4: you know, Jim, we're not going to surprise you with this.

554
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 4: I'll show you the songs, you know, as we're working

555
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 4: on them, because this is a big.

556
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 3: Deal, first feature.

557
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 4: He said, Oh, Paulie, I don't need to hear them.

558
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 4: I'll hear him in the studio. It's not Has that

559
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 4: been your experience in making empower pictures?

560
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 1: No, a bit laid back, so, you.

561
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 4: Know, I ask him, you know, the how do we

562
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 4: start this, puppy?

563
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 5: You know?

564
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 4: Do you start with with Kermit sitting on a log

565
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 4: in the in the in the swamp.

566
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 3: What's he doing?

567
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 4: He's playing a banjo and that kind of sets a

568
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 4: certain tone. And I think the instruments like tag pianos

569
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 4: and banjo is a great sad song instruments.

570
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 3: I love the juxtaposition.

571
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 4: So Kenny and I said down to write, saying we

572
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 4: wanted to write something like when you wish upon a Star,

573
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 4: I mean, when Jimmy Crookeett takes always hat in the

574
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 4: window and things about that.

575
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: It elevates all of us to.

576
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 4: Another level, and we thought Kremit deserved that we did.

577
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 4: We wrote ourselves into the worst corner. You got to

578
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 4: think about the opening lines.

579
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 5: Why are there so many songs about rainbows and what's

580
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 5: on the other side rainbowsis but only illusions, and rainbows

581
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 5: have nothing to hide.

582
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 3: We went out raps.

583
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 4: We just denied all the magic in rainbows. You know,

584
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 4: but look at the gift that we were given if

585
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 4: we go with the next line to it. So we've

586
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 4: been told, and what we do is Kermit steps away

587
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 4: from the podium sits down with the audience and is

588
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 4: a witness to the magic. So we've been told in

589
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 4: some Tuesday believe it. I know the wrong way to

590
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 4: see Someday we'll find it. The rainbow connection, the lovers,

591
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 4: the dreamers and me. The unseen hands on the piano

592
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 4: and the computer keys when I'm writing are many and

593
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 4: always welcome, because the best stuff comes out of my

594
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 4: absolutely unconscious. If I claim it anywhere, I can only

595
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 4: claim it there.

596
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: What is it about you? What do you think it

597
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: is about you? I mean I want to go full

598
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: blown cliche here and say you drank and drug yourself

599
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: to death because of a hypersensitivity you had. It also

600
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: helped you write these songs. Where do the songs come from?

601
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: You've written some of the most I'm one of these guys.

602
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: There's a handful of songs you put on and one

603
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: of them is Evergreen. It's just a pretty song that

604
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: just pulls at you. Now, when did you realize you

605
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: had the aptitude to write these memorable ballads for these

606
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: giant divas? Well?

607
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 4: You know that was her music. She just called you,

608
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 4: she called now. I was being actually fitted for a tuxedo.

609
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 4: A guy is measuring my end scene when my wife

610
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 4: walks in and says it's Barbara Stras wants to talk

611
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 4: to you. And I'm like, you know, oh my god,

612
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 4: And of course you know. I mean, I'm like, oh

613
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 4: my god, it's Barbaras. And then I pick up the phone.

614
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 3: I go, hi, Barbara, Yeah, of course yeah.

615
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 4: But she says, you wrote a song called for Helen

616
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 4: Ready called you and Me against the World. There's a

617
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 4: scene at the end of His Stars Worn and I'm

618
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 4: doing his Stars Warn with with with Chris Christofferson. There's

619
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 4: a song at the end of the Chris's character had

620
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 4: written and he's dead and I want to and I'm

621
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 4: lis singing this song and un me against the World

622
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 4: is like I'd love something like that. I said, I'm

623
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 4: I'm here with Kenny Asher, you know, like he's who

624
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 4: I wrote that song with. I go and I meet

625
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 4: with her, and she's wanted me to write one song.

626
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 4: But that's not what I heard. They sent the script

627
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 4: and I wrote down notes wherever he called. I thought

628
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 4: what I heard was, I want you to write the

629
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 4: songs for a stars warn. I mean, I just my

630
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 4: ego here listens sometimes when I don't, you know. And

631
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 4: so I go on and I tell her what the

632
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 4: songs are about, and she and John Peters look at

633
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 4: me like I'm nuts. Would you give us a moment?

634
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 4: And then they brought me back and they said, you know,

635
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 4: that's not what we asked you. We asked you for

636
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 4: one song. But you don't seem to be intimidated. I said,

637
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 4: absolutely not, And of course I'm sure I was.

638
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: Where did these songs come from? Where did these lyrics

639
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: come from?

640
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, this script, I mean we're talking about,

641
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 4: you know, the script of the Bible. The two things

642
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 4: that the songs, especially in.

643
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: The story itself, inspired the song.

644
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 4: Well, the thing is that, first of all, the characters

645
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 4: do and most guys writing songs for most songwriters, pop

646
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 4: songwriters writing for a film or a stage play. When

647
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 4: I have a hit, of course, we all want to

648
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 4: have a hit. But because I come from an acting background,

649
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,959
Speaker 4: I want to advance this story and I want to

650
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,239
Speaker 4: expose something of the inner life of the character I'm

651
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 4: writing for. So, you know, that was the whole point

652
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 4: with Kerman is that he has a spiritual wife, you know.

653
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 4: So I said down and I write. Everybody is like,

654
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 4: aren't you nervous about writing for Barbara? And I said, yeah,

655
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 4: but I'm also but let's take it up a notch.

656
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 4: I'm writing songs for the guy that putting all my

657
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 4: cleanest dirty shirt Sunday Morning coming down. Me and Bob McGee.

658
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 3: I love Chris Chris, I love christ Oh my god,

659
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 3: didn't you.

660
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: I loved him. Yeah, he was such an egoless guy.

661
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: I'd run into him from time to time and he

662
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: was always such a sweet I mean, there's the guys

663
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: who are the biggest guys, the biggest guys, the most talented,

664
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: they're so kind. Gradford was so kind to me and

665
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 1: he was too, Chris, very sweet, no ego.

666
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 4: My very first concert at a club in New York,

667
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 4: was at the Bitter End, and I'd show up there

668
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 4: first night and there's Chris Read in the front. I've

669
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 4: never met him, and I described it as trying to

670
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 4: sing through a guld you know, it's like you know,

671
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 4: and I sang, and one of the songs I sang

672
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 4: was called I Never had It So good. And the

673
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 4: first time we ever really spent a lot of time

674
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 4: together was A Star is Born. And the opening night

675
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 4: of Stars Born, somebody stuggle microphone on his faces said,

676
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 4: what are you feeling? You said that a deep sense

677
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 4: of impending shames.

678
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: Musician, songwriter and actor Paul Williams. If you're enjoying this conversation,

679
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: tell a friend and be sure to follow. Here's the

680
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: Thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you get

681
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: your podcasts. When we come back, Paul Williams takes us

682
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: behind the scenes of writing the songs for one of

683
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: his favorite projects, A Muppet Christmas Carol. I'm Alec Baldwin

684
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: and this is here's the thing, d.

685
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 2: F today I must feet of strangers were rad you

686
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: know I'm not that strong.

687
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 1: That's Paul Williams performing I Won't last a day without You.

688
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 2: There's song one I can to do who always cap

689
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 2: You're always there when there's no gardy, no on that range.

690
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: At age eighty four, Paul Williams is showing no signs

691
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: of slowing down. It was only when reminiscing about his

692
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: storied songwriting career that I was reminded of just how

693
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: long Williams has been a force in the songwriting world.

694
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: From touring with Olivia Newton John to writing for The Carpenters,

695
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: Williams has been surrounded by legends since the very beginning.

696
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 4: I mean I had songs recorded by Bing Crosby and Elvis.

697
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 4: I mean because it was like the third act of

698
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 4: their career when I'm just getting started. So it's like

699
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 4: when I tell somebody that I songs recorded, a song

700
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 4: recorded by Ben Crosby, it's like, you are old, buddy,

701
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 4: you are old. It's a yeah, I am old. But

702
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 4: when you think about when you started your career and

703
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 4: who was around, I mean, I did something for the

704
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,479
Speaker 4: Friars and walking on stage the first time and there's

705
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 4: Greg RePEc and Krook Douglas, you know, you know, I

706
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 4: think Burt Lancaster was was even.

707
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 1: I met all three of those guys and I almost

708
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: pissed my pants.

709
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

710
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 4: But the thing is that I write both ways. I

711
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 4: write words and music, and more and more these days

712
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 4: with Pans Labyrinth. It's Gustavo Sentel on myself, the Phantom

713
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 4: of the Paradise, words and music. The big thing for

714
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 4: me was getting as far as the Muppets was concerned,

715
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 4: was in fresh New sobriety.

716
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 3: Nobody's calling me.

717
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 4: I get sober, and I'm not the hot you know

718
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 4: kid in Timen anymore I've been. You know, you know

719
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 4: you're an alcoholic when you misplaced a decade.

720
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: And it's like the eighties around here, somewhere, it's.

721
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 4: Around you said one before and you're the only person

722
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 4: that ever responded.

723
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 3: You get it.

724
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 4: But at any rate, the phone rings and it was

725
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 4: Brian Hanson, and Brian said, I want you to write

726
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 4: the songs for the Muppet Christmas Curl. Have you ever

727
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 4: seen it? It's one of my favorite things I've ever

728
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 4: done in my life. And it was written with the

729
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 4: exact same emotional commitment that I have around my sobriety.

730
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 4: I literally read the first you know, the Dickens novel.

731
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 4: I read the script, looked where the songs were going

732
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 4: to go left it alone for a while. Let my unconscious.

733
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 4: I'm not procrastinating, I'm percolating. I am leaving my unconscious

734
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 4: alone with this story and not bugging it. And eventually

735
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 4: I was. At the time I was dating Keenan Wynn's daughter,

736
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 4: I was out of her place in Brentwood, and I

737
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 4: go out into the park with a Lawrence Block novel.

738
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 4: I love Lawrence Block's writing, a little tape recorder and

739
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 4: a pencil, and I say, big, amigo.

740
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 3: Muse, whoever you all are.

741
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 4: Up there, We're gonna write these songs and let me

742
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 4: know when you have an idea. And I pick up

743
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 4: the Lawrence Block novel and I start reading, and about

744
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 4: three pages in I put it down. I thought, okay.

745
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 4: The first song Scrooge, we see a door. Of the

746
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 4: door opens, you see his feet and he walks by

747
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 4: all these little people that seem to get colder when

748
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 4: he walks by. Put a boom bum boom boom boom

749
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 4: boom boom butter boom boom b im.

750
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 3: Get the rhythm of it. You want to cold wind

751
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 3: blows it chills you, chills you to the boom.

752
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 4: Nature. The phrase is your heart like he is a

753
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 4: being alone.

754
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 3: That's what you guys are good. That's not bad.

755
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 4: It paints you with indifference like a lady paints with rouge.

756
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 4: But the worst of the worst, the most hated. And

757
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 4: it was because the one that we call screws. Oh,

758
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 4: there goes mister. But I wrote that much of it

759
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 4: without writing it down, but it was. It was what

760
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 4: we were talking about earlier, about the difference between acceptance

761
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 4: and surrender and really really totally letting go of the moment.

762
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 4: I mean, if I'm sitting down with Alec Baldwin to

763
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 4: talk about God knows what we're going to talk about,

764
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 4: I could give gone into it. I could have wrapped

765
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 4: myself around my axle a couple of times thinking about that,

766
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 4: because I would want this to be a really wonderful experience,

767
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 4: and I was excited about it. But I remember the

768
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 4: same club as you, and we let things go and

769
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 4: we trust in the moment and it's exactly what it's

770
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 4: supposed to be, and it's wonderful.

771
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: And what's interesting to me is that for me, I've

772
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: been overwhelmed, overwhelmed in it maybe joyous way from or

773
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: I'm at now, which is everything has led me to

774
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 1: where I am right now. Yeah, I don't want to

775
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 1: go back to my old life. No, No, I love

776
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: what I'm doing now. I don't want to leave my house. Yeah,

777
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with my kids and then being around them

778
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: and being participatory.

779
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 4: You have kids, I do have kids, and I was

780
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 4: not there for my kids when I mean, when you

781
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 4: know my son doesn't want to have kids, he said, Dad,

782
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 4: it's like everybody that I know that has kids, they

783
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 4: get total I mean, at this point, I think he'll

784
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 4: change his mind, but he says he was a wonderful actorney.

785
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 4: He said, I also don't want to spend the rest

786
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 4: of my life auditioning. So he went off and like

787
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 4: he became a trainer. He was Kamala Harris's private trainer,

788
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 4: and then didn't go flying around in planes and training

789
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 4: you know, studio heads and stuff like that. Now he's

790
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 4: involved in developing plant based foods and at any rate.

791
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,760
Speaker 4: But it's like, you know, Dad, because all my friends,

792
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 4: when they have kids, that becomes their entire life.

793
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 3: I said, I escaped that trap.

794
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: I'll show you have it.

795
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he said, yeah, you did.

796
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 4: My daughter, my amazing daughter, Sarah is a therapist. She

797
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 4: works as in the Office of Victims Advocacy from a

798
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 4: major university and and she's she's amazing, two beautiful kids.

799
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,399
Speaker 4: And she said, Dad, you were not there. She says,

800
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 4: I hear them talking about the Pauli Lama, which is

801
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 4: my nickname and recovery. So so yeah, she says, you're

802
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 4: the polic She said, I get that. You know, like

803
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 4: you're anywhere anytime that you're going to help another. I'll

804
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 4: call it her an addict, she said, But when we

805
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 4: were kids, you weren't there. But I have to tell

806
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 4: you something to Dad. When she calls me, Pops, she says, Pops,

807
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 4: you finally hid full tilt Papa Bear. And I would

808
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 4: bet that if there's anybody that I can say that to,

809
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 4: you're going to understand what that means. How wonderful, what

810
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 4: that's the best review I ever had in my life.

811
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: Now, obviously you've been involved with ASK Captain a member

812
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 1: as a professional songwriter and so forth. But then you

813
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: become the president of Asking Why and what's the task

814
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: for askcap Now.

815
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 4: Make sure we're a membership organization of We have over

816
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 4: a million members, songwriters, composers, lyricists. They've been putting food

817
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 4: on my table and gas in my car since nineteen

818
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 4: seventy two. When music is performed there is a performing

819
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 4: rights we're royalty there and ASKAVS a pro performing rights organization.

820
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 4: You know, we get to keep the miracle by giving

821
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 4: it away in that other world that we're a part of.

822
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 4: That love and services is an intensely rewarding I mean,

823
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 4: it's absolutely it's a contact because you hear about being

824
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 4: of service being love and service and all, and it

825
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 4: sounds like a really wonderful thing.

826
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 3: To do for the rest of the world. But what

827
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 3: it does for.

828
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 4: Me and what every I wrote a line in the

829
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 4: song once it's said, every act of kindness is a

830
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 4: little bit of love behind. We left behind. My favorite

831
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 4: line as far as the philosophy is probably you give

832
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 4: a little and it all comes back to you. You

833
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 4: give a little love, then it all comes back. In

834
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 4: two thousand and one, I was I was hal David

835
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 4: was a great friend and Hell said, I want you

836
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 4: to run for the board of AZCAP. And I had

837
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 4: run for the board of ASCAP a couple of times

838
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 4: and was not elected. And I mentioned that to him

839
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 4: and he said, and thank God, because you you know,

840
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 4: because somebody else was using my body. Then he said,

841
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 4: but you're a different man now, and I think you

842
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 4: got to run for ASCAP on the board. I was

843
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 4: elected to the board in two thousand and one, and eventually,

844
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 4: you know, became Maryland's vice chair riders Share, and in

845
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 4: two thousand and nine became president chairman. I was raised

846
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 4: by a hardcore Republican who my dad called my mom

847
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 4: that little communist.

848
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 1: See that little comedy, a little commie.

849
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 4: I'm at a little comedy. And they lied at least

850
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 4: every four years. They lied because they'd say, we're going

851
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 4: to cancel each other. It makes no sense. Let's agree

852
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 4: to not vote. So they would agree, they would swear,

853
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 4: you know, they were not going to vote, and as

854
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 4: soon as the polls closed, they would go, I voted,

855
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 4: I voted. So I was raised in this household. What

856
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 4: and And one of the things that happened when I

857
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 4: was very early on, when I did run for the

858
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 4: vard and was elected, before I was president, I got

859
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 4: to know some people that had nothing in common, that

860
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 4: they that disagree to on almost everything in the world,

861
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 4: and yet they did meaningful work together. I'm talking about

862
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 4: like Ted Kennedy and Orton Hatch, who did the Americans

863
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 4: with Disabilities Act?

864
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 3: Who did age suffer? Kids?

865
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: Collaborate?

866
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 4: And because I began to understand a little bit what

867
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 4: was going on in a very changing worlded as gap,

868
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 4: I got excited about, you know, being a hood ornament,

869
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 4: about walking in the halls and going on Paul Williams

870
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 4: and having somebody like Doug Collins say to me, you

871
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 4: know your little venus or smoking the Band? I love

872
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 4: that movie. What can I do for you? Any minute?

873
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 4: And the next thing you know, he and Hakim Jefferies

874
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,439
Speaker 4: are working on somebody called the Songwriters Equity Act, which

875
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 4: is going to adjust the rules that we operate under

876
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 4: so we can get closer to the fair payment for streaming.

877
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 4: Never made it to the floor, but then we come back.

878
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: Isn't their fair payment for streaming?

879
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 6: Now?

880
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 1: Why?

881
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 4: Well, you know, business is business, you know, like writers

882
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 4: are not exactly you know, you know, most heads and studios.

883
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 4: I don't think very luckily wake up in the middle

884
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 4: of the night and go, God, I gotta take better

885
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 4: care of the writers, you know. I just you know, honey,

886
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 4: I think about that, and.

887
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: Honey, why can't you sleep? I just keep thinking about

888
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: the writers.

889
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 4: Keep thinking about the writers. You know those pesky songwriters

890
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 4: or you know, they have kids, and I suppose they

891
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 4: should be able to feed them.

892
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 1: I need to help them.

893
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 4: But the thing is that there is no music business

894
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:56,760
Speaker 4: without a song. Without music and the opportunity to really

895
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 4: work on a daily basis and an amaze staff I

896
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 4: mean Ascaps one hundred and ten years old, but to

897
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 4: be able to show up. And I have friends on

898
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 4: both sides of the island, and this is not a

899
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 4: collaborative environment we're living in right now.

900
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 3: You know, it's like Terry Everson.

901
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 4: You know, it's a cell phone and a foxhold, you know,

902
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 4: I mean ASCAT. We have you know, amazing, amazing writers,

903
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 4: you know, like Beyonce and Paul McCartney and the like.

904
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 4: But we also have a lot of blue collar writers

905
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 4: like I am, like I was. I've had great success,

906
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 4: but I'm a blue collar writer. I write songs. You

907
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 4: got something, you need a song? I love sitting down

908
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 4: and chasing the words.

909
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: Now, just to harken back a little bit to you

910
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: in the studio with people, I mean, one of the

911
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 1: people who just put a spell on me, like many people,

912
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: was Karen Carpenter, And of course I was just sickened

913
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: by how she died, And yeah, were you ever in

914
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 1: the studio with her when she was recording?

915
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 4: They did not hover while I was writing. I did

916
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 4: not hover while they were recording, but I but I

917
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 4: would get a phone call. You know the great thing

918
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 4: about Karen and Richard when we were introduced to them,

919
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 4: they opened up the door, said, this is Karen and Richard.

920
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:07,919
Speaker 4: I think you know it was herb Alpert and Chuck

921
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 4: Kay introducing the two of them to Roger and I.

922
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 3: Nobody knew who we were.

923
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 4: And Karen and Richard when we loved your Steve Lawrence

924
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 4: got the Drifter, and we loved rowing pony By, you know,

925
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 4: I mean they knew all these songs we'd written that

926
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 4: nobody knew. I mean it was like never been on

927
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 4: the radio, but they were fans. When the phone would

928
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 4: ring and it would be Karen Love be in my

929
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 4: office with Roger we're writing, and she'd be over in

930
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 4: the recording studiency you want to hear, and you go

931
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 4: over there and you hear. I mean rainy days on Mondays.

932
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 4: Let me be the one. I want less to deal

933
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 4: with it. You know, it's like and when an angel

934
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,720
Speaker 4: sings your songs, your life changes.

935
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: Oh god, and in that way that you mentioned about Crosby,

936
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 1: when you're writing for Crosby. Whatever, it's been a while,

937
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: I think this is still the This is accurate. What's

938
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 1: a Nick Tosh's book about Dean Martin. He wrote that

939
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,439
Speaker 1: great biography of Dean Mark Goldino and he says that

940
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: Martin puts a record on the turntable by it's bing Crosby.

941
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: They takes it off, and he puts one of his

942
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: arm and they takes that off and he puts Alvis Presley.

943
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 3: He goes.

944
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: You see that we're all doing the same thing here, right,

945
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: He's doing me, I'm doing this. We're all doing world crooners.

946
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 5: You know.

947
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 4: And the fact is that the great thing about what

948
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 4: I think we do is you don't have to give

949
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 4: up your fan cards. So if I'm in a room

950
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 4: in Quincy Walks and I, oh my god, there's Q

951
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 4: and that maybe which you see on the service, but

952
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 4: inside there's apartment that's going, I'm like, God, that's Quincy Jones.

953
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 5: You know.

954
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 4: At this point in my life, it's like that whole thing,

955
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 4: you know, that whole thing with Scrooge writing for Scrooge.

956
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 4: One of the great examples of what's turning in my

957
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,959
Speaker 4: life is that I'm asked to write songs about somebody

958
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 4: who's having his spiritual awakening while I'm having a spiritual.

959
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 1: Awakening live from the front.

960
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 4: Absolutely in the fresh in my chest is gratitude, and

961
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 4: I'm writing thing I get up in the morning and

962
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 4: I say, lead me where you need me.

963
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: Let me just end by saying, do you have any

964
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,879
Speaker 1: idea how talented you are? Did you really own that

965
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 1: in your life? I've just sat there and go, Man,

966
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 1: You've done some amazing things, beautiful things. Do you have

967
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: any idea how talented you are? Do you kind of

968
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 1: enjoy that a bit?

969
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 4: I wish I could introduce you to all of them.

970
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 4: I wish I could introduce you to the kid that

971
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 4: watched a movie about Jane froman called with a Song

972
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 4: of My Heart and wound up like walking into it

973
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 4: my office the first time at ASCAP, and on the

974
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,800
Speaker 4: wall next to my thing was the printed sheet music

975
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 4: from with a Song of My Heart. I was the

976
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 4: first thing with music in it that I ever loved.

977
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 4: In that there's some sort of magic going on here.

978
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 4: I haven't quite figured it out yet, but that seems

979
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 4: to be one of the things that I am most

980
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 4: open to is right now, it just come to me

981
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 4: when you need to. With this one. This may be

982
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 4: the last big journey whatever, but I think that it's absolutely,

983
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 4: absolutely magical, and I don't think that we could have

984
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 4: planned any of it. And at the same token, in

985
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 4: early sobriety, I've read the writing of Emmett Fox, and

986
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 4: he talks about what we dwell on, we create, that

987
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 4: thoughts become things. And if you are inspired, you know

988
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 4: in a fashion that is loving, you know, and to

989
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 4: the highest good of all concerned. What you dwell on

990
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 4: you may experience soon in your life or perhaps later.

991
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 4: Phantom of the Paradise opened to nobody in the theater

992
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 4: and they closed the can Film Festival with it this year.

993
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 4: Sometimes a dream doesn't come until you're all about just

994
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 4: ready to walk away from this life and you go, wow,

995
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 4: there's still some wow moments left, I know, for both

996
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 4: of us, and I admire you.

997
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 3: There's not a word yet for old friends. You just man,

998
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 3: there you go, you got it.

999
00:49:53,560 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: Thank you. My thanks to musicians, songwriter and actor Williams.

1000
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: I'll leave you with a little more of Paul Williams

1001
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 1: performing I won't last a day without you. I'm Alec Baldwin.

1002
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,720
Speaker 1: Here's the thing that's brought to you by iHeart Radio.

1003
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 5: And there's no getting on that range.

1004
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 2: When my storm lust, the dreams won't go one d bucketing.

1005
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,840
Speaker 1: Madness, the world lesting you.

1006
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 2: But I want less today without you