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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust that's.

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Speaker 2: Three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or showed us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, trust me, Trust me.

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Speaker 3: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 2: I've never lived.

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Speaker 3: To you, I never a live.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that one person has all the answers?

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Speaker 2: Don't welcome to trust Me? The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 2: belief and manipulation from two Flower Children who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 2: I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth. Today is part

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Speaker 2: one of our interview with Gwenevere Turner, screenwriter of films

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Speaker 2: like American Psycho and Charlie Says, actress and now author

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Speaker 2: of her incredible memoir When the World Didn't End. She's

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Speaker 2: going to talk to us about the cult she grew

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Speaker 2: up and known as the Lyman Family, who they were,

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Speaker 2: and how our mother came to join, and what her

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Speaker 2: childhood was like bouncing around between different compounds.

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Speaker 1: She'll tell us about Jesse, the queen of the group,

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Speaker 1: and what it was like being invited to join Jesse's

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Speaker 1: elite caravan, the leader mel Lyman's trippy and confusing teachings,

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Speaker 1: and the system that would ostracize and punish the kids

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Speaker 1: for reasons that they never quite understood. Plus, stay tuned

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Speaker 1: for next week for part two, where we discuss how

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Speaker 1: she left her journey after and cults and trauma more generally. Plus,

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Speaker 1: she's our new best friends.

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Speaker 2: She's our new best friend, and we had lunch with

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Speaker 2: her and we're going to be BFFs for the rest

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Speaker 2: of our lives. Yes, you heard it here. First, we're obsessed.

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Speaker 2: Before we get into it with Guinevere Megan, can you

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Speaker 2: tell me your coldis thing this week?

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Speaker 3: Sure?

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Speaker 1: Originally it was going to be about how in Australia

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Speaker 1: they're mixing AI with human brain cells.

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Speaker 2: I don't like this, but the only.

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Speaker 1: Outlet that was making me understand it was the Daily Mail.

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Speaker 1: I'm shocked, so I don't want to quote from that.

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Speaker 1: I'll just wait for my dad or somebody to explain

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Speaker 1: it to me more thoroughly. But they are teaching brain

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Speaker 1: cells to play a nineteen seventies video game called pong,

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Speaker 1: But I'm not going to talk about that today because.

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Speaker 2: Wait, what do you mean they're teaching brain cells to play?

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Speaker 2: What does that mean?

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Speaker 4: That's my point. The Daily Mail is my only source

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Speaker 4: of information on it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So what's your real cult? We'll come back

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Speaker 2: to this, we'll follow up, But what's your real cult ties?

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Speaker 1: Well, I went to go get botox today, so let's

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Speaker 1: just talk about the cult to beauty.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I bought a groupon. Why wouldn't I?

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Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you? I do it all the time.

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Speaker 1: Well, remember when I got the groupon for my eyebrows

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Speaker 1: to get microp blated and they made them look like

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Speaker 1: two insane things on my face? I thought that might

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Speaker 1: be the end.

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Speaker 2: Also not great sometimes for certain kinds of fillers, you

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Speaker 2: wouldn't want to do underriye fillers on group on. I'm

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Speaker 2: just saying that right now from experience, from other people's experience.

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Speaker 4: Oh shudgie, I love it.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, no, they that they This is something we

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Speaker 2: all acknowledge. You got to get someone who's very skilled

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Speaker 2: to do your underreyes my friends.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I went in for my groupon to get

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Speaker 1: some botox around my eyes, feeling you know, really.

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Speaker 2: Confident in my decision.

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Speaker 1: This beautiful woman upsold me so hard to the point

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Speaker 1: that I'm getting a facial on Thursday. Also off of Groupon,

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Speaker 1: I got my armpits lasered Harry Movel that I have

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Speaker 1: to go in every two weeks, and I bought like

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Speaker 1: two other things.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a part of this colt. I want

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Speaker 2: to do self care. I want to have the youngest

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Speaker 2: looking skin you've ever seen, which is something that I

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Speaker 2: want to interrogate because why do I feel this need

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Speaker 2: to look young forever? But I absolutely do it and

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Speaker 2: spend way two and twenty doing it. Let's be honest.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank god for groupon because it was all seventy

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Speaker 1: five percent off and we'll see if I either look

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Speaker 1: really cute or insane.

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Speaker 2: Probably a little bit of both.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, to be clear, not an ad for groupon

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Speaker 5: you guys groupon sponsor us. What's the coldiest thing that

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Speaker 5: happened to you this week?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm going to preface this by saying that

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Speaker 2: I am a SAG after member. I am pre WGA screenwriter.

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Speaker 2: I one one hundred percent and with the strike, So

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Speaker 2: I'm going to mention a show on because it's not

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Speaker 2: under the same contract that is currently being disputed. From

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Speaker 2: my understanding, it is a docu series, so just not

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Speaker 2: the same contract that's currently being struck. But there is

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Speaker 2: a series on an Internet place called a website, an

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Speaker 2: Internet place, a website, a streaming platform that I am

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Speaker 2: in and is called How to Become a Cult Leader.

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Speaker 2: The first season was How to Become a Tyrant. Our

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Speaker 2: friend Jonas was on to talk about tyrants with us,

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Speaker 2: and so I am one of the talking heads on

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Speaker 2: this show. But fuck the AMPTP. I'll just be clear

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Speaker 2: about that workers should be paid what they deserve. However,

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Speaker 2: I will be on this show, and if you do

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Speaker 2: still have your streaming platform subscription, you can see me

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Speaker 2: on there talking about cult leader's thoughts.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to see it. I didn't realize it

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Speaker 1: was out yet. It rhymes with flat flex and it's

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Speaker 1: called how to Become a Cult Leader.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it comes out like the end of

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Speaker 2: this week. Maybe I'm in the trailer. I don't. I

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Speaker 2: try not to look at it because I can't watch myself.

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Speaker 1: But well, maybe if you bought a few more group ons,

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Speaker 1: you'd be fine with it.

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Speaker 2: Not an ad I am in that and fuck the man,

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Speaker 2: people power workers' rights. Also, you can see me anything

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Speaker 2: if you feel like watching the thing. But I'm excited

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Speaker 2: because I really liked season one.

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Speaker 3: I really liked.

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Speaker 2: Also, Peter Dinklish is the narrator, which was very cool

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Speaker 2: in season one, and it'll be very cool to see

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Speaker 2: in season two as well.

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Speaker 1: Again, can't wait to see it. Also, Gwenevere's book When

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Speaker 1: the World Didn't End is my new cult favorite. She

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Speaker 1: even mentions two books in the book that she read,

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Speaker 1: so then I read those books, like I ended up

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Speaker 1: reading a nineteen seventy three book called The Group for

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Speaker 1: no reason whatsoever, just because I'm so into this book.

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Speaker 1: So please go get this book. And I cannot wait

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Speaker 1: for y'all to hear this interview with her.

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Speaker 2: Can I just say the speed with which or at

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Speaker 2: which the speed with which Megan reads is absolutely bonkers,

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Speaker 2: Like we whenever mentions a book or she mentioned a

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Speaker 2: book to us at the end of the interview, and

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Speaker 2: we had lunch with her two days later, and Megan

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, I read that book. It had been

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Speaker 2: like forty hours. I would probably join your cult if

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Speaker 2: it meant that I could have your reading speed abilities.

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Speaker 2: I'm just saying, all.

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Speaker 1: It takes is not letting your children have any entertainment, television,

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Speaker 1: or any fun whatsoever. And they will learn to read

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Speaker 1: very fast as they go through Sweet Valley Highs like

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Speaker 1: crack cocaine.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I loved me some Sweet Valley High. I loved

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Speaker 2: Sweet Valley High and the Sweet Valley Twins and Goosebumps

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Speaker 2: and the Narnia books and some other fucking books or

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Speaker 2: what oh, the box Car children loved. I was a reader,

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Speaker 2: But I don't read like you. My brain just got dumber.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's talk to quid. No, yeah, let's do it.

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Speaker 2: not available in all states and situations. Welcome Guenevere Turner

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Speaker 2: to trust me. Thank you for joining us, Thank you

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Speaker 2: for having me. I have followed you for a couple

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Speaker 2: of years. Huge fan, Megan, also huge fan. You wrote

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Speaker 2: the film American Psycho. You also have been an actress

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Speaker 2: in your career, and now you have a book out

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Speaker 2: about your life called When the World Didn't End. Can

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Speaker 2: you tell us the name of the group that that

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Speaker 2: book centers around for.

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Speaker 3: Part of it. Yes, I was born and raised until

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Speaker 3: I was eleven in a group called the Lyman family.

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Speaker 2: Who was the leader of this group? How was it

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Speaker 2: kind of started? Originally?

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Speaker 3: The leader was a man named mel Lyman, the.

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Speaker 2: Lord, the Lord.

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Speaker 3: And what's interesting when I talk about him and his

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Speaker 3: origins and his beliefs is that it wasn't like if

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Speaker 3: one grew up in a Bible based called there wasn't

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Speaker 3: a place to read it. The rules were not carved

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Speaker 3: in stone, so what they believed in felt slippery. And

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Speaker 3: because I was a kid, I was just sort of

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Speaker 3: doing what I thought I needed to do. I don't

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Speaker 3: have an adult overview of what was really going on

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Speaker 3: there in a way. But he was a musician, and

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Speaker 3: at some point people started living with him, and they

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Speaker 3: started this magazine, like a free weekly in Boston called

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Speaker 3: The Avatar, which I think brought more people toward them.

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Speaker 3: And The Avatar was mostly his writing and photos of

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Speaker 3: him and photos of other people who were, you know,

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Speaker 3: as the family was growing. That's how my mother initially

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Speaker 3: they came to her attention because she was in college

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Speaker 3: for like a second before she realized she was pregnant.

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Speaker 3: In Boston, they were giving out Avatar in the streets,

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Speaker 3: and she started reading it, and then she started working

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Speaker 3: for them, and then she realized she had nowhere to go,

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Speaker 3: and she was pregnant, and it was in nineteen sixty eight,

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Speaker 3: and then she joined.

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Speaker 4: How many people were in it, They.

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Speaker 3: Tried to make a whole less to it. I was

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Speaker 3: writing the book around one hundred and sixty Not anymore,

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Speaker 3: it's much smaller. My generation grew up and many of

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Speaker 3: them moved away from it, and not a lot of

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Speaker 3: new people joined from the time that I was there

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Speaker 3: till now. In fact, would say maybe only like three

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Speaker 3: that were, you know, boyfriends or girlfriends. The people of

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Speaker 3: my generation who were already in What were the beliefs Well,

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Speaker 3: like I said, I don't know. Yeah, Well, at some

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Speaker 3: point they were that we were a spaceship was going

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Speaker 3: to come and take au su Venus. Well, spoiler alert

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Speaker 3: did not happen. What hence the title of my book,

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Speaker 3: Other than that it was a very us against them,

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Speaker 3: you know, in terms of us and world people. It

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Speaker 3: was about being honest, it was about being present. There

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Speaker 3: was a hell of a lot of astrology and stigmatizing,

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Speaker 3: slash scolding, you know, don't give me that scorpio rising.

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Speaker 3: Literally a lot of astrology and a lot of a

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Speaker 3: lot about being present, which was, you know, a big

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Speaker 3: thing at that time. ROMed Us wrote the book be

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Speaker 3: Here Now and that and so this idea of being

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Speaker 3: present and being accountable. But like when you're a kid,

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Speaker 3: you're like, but.

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Speaker 6: Seriously, how do I not get in trouble?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 6: Am I present?

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Speaker 3: Right now? Am I being myself? Am I in a

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Speaker 3: good place?

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Speaker 6: You know? What does all this stuff mean?

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Speaker 3: And I will remind myself almost all of these people

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Speaker 3: who were saying all these things to us, and were

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Speaker 3: these the thirty figures were people in their twenties in

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Speaker 3: the seventies. Just to be clearly, they didn't know what

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Speaker 3: they were talking about either.

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Speaker 6: They were trying to find.

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Speaker 3: A utopia and a system of beliefs, and they were

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Speaker 3: trying things out. I guess it didn't really matter that

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Speaker 3: there were all these kids running around being like what.

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Speaker 1: What about like past lives and reincarnation and how was

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Speaker 1: that held over.

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Speaker 4: Your head a little bit?

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Speaker 3: So that was the belief some days, was that Earth

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Speaker 3: is school and that we're all here to learn something,

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Speaker 3: and that once you learn that, you get to go

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Speaker 3: somewhere else. I personally was told that I had been

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Speaker 3: on Earthed too many times that I had not learned

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Speaker 3: the thing that I was supposed to learn. When I

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Speaker 3: think of that now, I'm like like Matthew McConaughey and

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Speaker 3: days and confused. That person is way too old to

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Speaker 3: be hanging out. So I was so as a kid,

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Speaker 3: I was constantly looking for the thing. Is this the

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Speaker 3: thing I'm supposed to learn? Is this the thing I'm

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Speaker 3: supposed to learn? It wasn't clear where you were going

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Speaker 3: after that, you know, if you weren't coming back to Earth.

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Speaker 3: But there wasn't like heaven. It was just something else.

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Speaker 3: So definitely reincarnation, but not just here.

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Speaker 1: Picked ship from everywhere because like demons were real. It

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Speaker 1: seems like like the Exorcist was scary.

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Speaker 3: The Devil was real like, but there wasn't like al Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's very strange. Yeah, so there's not a lot to

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Speaker 3: like hold on to as absolutes.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yes, answer reincarnation, but it's also aliens and going

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Speaker 2: to live on another. Right.

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Speaker 3: But the UFOs were coming again us, but it wasn't

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Speaker 3: clear who was going to be in them, if anyone

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Speaker 3: right or if when Wing out to Venus, there were

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Speaker 3: going to be other people there, like, none of that

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Speaker 3: was clear. Again, I'm a kid, so to me, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I'm not asking all the hard questions, right, you know, like, OK, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: let me get my cute dress on. And when I

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Speaker 3: tried to ask my mom about it, she would just

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Speaker 3: be like I knew what she would say. You'll understand

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Speaker 3: when you're older.

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Speaker 2: You're like, I get it, now, don't get it. It

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Speaker 2: was like hard to keep track of the timeline of

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Speaker 2: your childhood because they moved you around so much. But

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Speaker 2: you were born in Boston, right, Yes? Then was the

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Speaker 2: farm in Kansas? Yes, so can you tell us about

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Speaker 2: that part?

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Speaker 3: The farm was Benton Farm still is was a huge

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Speaker 3: piece of property that was given to Jesse Benton by

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Speaker 3: her father, who was Thomas Hart Benton, who was this

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Speaker 3: famous social realist painter. When I was there, when I

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Speaker 3: was very young, it was pretty rough. Buildings were half

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Speaker 3: built and they were really working on trying to only

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Speaker 3: eat the food that we grew. There's a lot of

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Speaker 3: kind of half construction and rough living and woodstoves and

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Speaker 3: not at all luxurious, lots of outdoor life. That's when

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Speaker 3: I was younger, so that, but it's a huge piece

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Speaker 3: of property. There's like five or six buildings now finished

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Speaker 3: and then just acres of acres.

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Speaker 2: And your mom was not with you for a lot

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Speaker 2: of your childhood, right, yes, What was the structure of that,

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Speaker 2: like where would the parents be, where the kids be?

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Speaker 3: It was kind of different and ever changing like almost everything,

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Speaker 3: but generally speaking, like so, my mom worked in finance,

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Speaker 3: so they wanted her to be in New York or

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Speaker 3: in San Francisco where she could have jobs that you know,

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Speaker 3: you know, didn't make sense to have her in Kansas.

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Speaker 3: She couldn't work and make money that she would give

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Speaker 3: to the family. And just for a lot of people,

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Speaker 3: it was for a lot of you know, kids, it

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Speaker 3: was you know, this person is needed in a different compound.

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Speaker 3: We didn't call them compounds. I've just started calling them

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Speaker 3: that a shorthand, you know, because they're working in construction

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Speaker 3: and there's a you know, something that needs to be

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Speaker 3: built over there.

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Speaker 6: There was never a like.

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Speaker 3: A given philosophy for why we were rarely with our

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Speaker 3: biological parents, and sometimes we were. It's a thing that

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Speaker 3: I've been thinking about a lot because when it first

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Speaker 3: tried going to therapy, you know, in my early twenties,

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Speaker 3: the therapist was like, you know, let's focus on your

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Speaker 3: relationship with your mother. It needed to help her understand

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Speaker 3: that if you are surrounded by people who also don't

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Speaker 3: necessarily have a strong bond with their biological parents, and

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Speaker 3: you don't go anywhere else or do anything else, I

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Speaker 3: don't feel like it's as traumatic as it sounds. That's

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Speaker 3: just a person that I'm not as close with as

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Speaker 3: other people have been with their parents.

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Speaker 4: It's like you had forty mothers kind of yeah.

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Speaker 3: And because of that, I think people assume that there's

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Speaker 3: like a wound or resentment toward her for that, and

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Speaker 3: there's really not. The Only thing it made me feel

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Speaker 3: as a kid was just anxious when I would see her.

337
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Speaker 3: I didn't really know how to act with her because

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Speaker 3: I knew of the I'd seen enough movies that read

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Speaker 3: enough books that I knew what it should look like,

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Speaker 3: and we were sort of encouraged to act like it

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Speaker 3: was that, but there was no foundation for it.

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Speaker 2: Right, And there were other maternal figures around who you

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Speaker 2: had a closer bond with.

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Speaker 4: Definitely, yes, could they discipline you, could they spank you?

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Speaker 3: Or yeah? Any adult could discipline any.

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Speaker 2: Kid almost and was that common? Was physical punishment common?

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, I didn't even I realized that I didn't

348
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Speaker 3: go into it in the book very much, and it

349
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Speaker 3: wasn't because I was trying to protect them or anything.

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Speaker 3: I realized that it's so normalized to me in my

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Speaker 3: brain that I don't think of it that much as

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Speaker 3: part of the trauma of my childhood because it was

353
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Speaker 3: there was just so much. I mean, it was bad,

354
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Speaker 3: like getting locked in closets and you know, getting beaten

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Speaker 3: with a wooden paddle, getting something dumped on your head,

356
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Speaker 3: you know, But I think it's because the thing that

357
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Speaker 3: hurt the most as a punishment was being ostracized like

358
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Speaker 3: that that is stuck in my head as something that

359
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Speaker 3: was really painful.

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Speaker 1: What did shunning look like they just wouldn't talk to you,

361
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Speaker 1: or what would happen if.

362
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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, nobody would talk to you, but you still,

363
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,360
Speaker 3: you know, had to do your chores and be present

364
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,240
Speaker 3: and kind of work hard to earn it back, but

365
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Speaker 3: also really hard because you know, for all of us,

366
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,360
Speaker 3: the kids, our peers were, that was sort of that

367
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,200
Speaker 3: was the good part, that was our strength, and that

368
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,440
Speaker 3: was our life for us and that was what was fun.

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Speaker 6: And so to have that taken way all of a sudden, everything.

370
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Speaker 3: Was just really bleak, right. And also I would be

371
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Speaker 3: on the other side and had to do it myself.

372
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Speaker 3: And you know, if someone's in trouble, you shown them

373
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Speaker 3: in and it wasn't It was never said that way.

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Speaker 3: It was like, we all knew that person's in trouble.

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Speaker 6: It's contagious.

376
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Speaker 3: Don't be a sympathizer, or you'll be on the other

377
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Speaker 3: side totally.

378
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Speaker 2: You have these descriptions of like a kid who got

379
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Speaker 2: his fingers chopped off in front of you because you

380
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,320
Speaker 2: guys are just playing this incredibly dangerous game.

381
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Speaker 3: I know it's darkly funny. I allow it to be

382
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,760
Speaker 3: funny because it's just like, what could go wrong here?

383
00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,200
Speaker 3: Give an act to a bunch of seven to nine

384
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,320
Speaker 3: year olds. It's easy, Oh, let just get bored and

385
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,960
Speaker 3: make up a game that is inevitably. It's just inevitable

386
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Speaker 3: that someone's fingers are going to get chopped off.

387
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Speaker 2: Just for you know, to sort of generally describe the game,

388
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,600
Speaker 2: it's basically like Russian roulette, but like chop but like

389
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,080
Speaker 2: an axe chopping down and moving your hand away in time.

390
00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:54,840
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, well you have a piece of wood

391
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Speaker 3: and you say this is your heart and you put

392
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Speaker 3: it on the chopping block and it's someone's heart and

393
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 3: then you just try to chop it before they grab it.

394
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,280
Speaker 3: It's like, you know, it's just a dare game. It's

395
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 3: just the stakes. It really.

396
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:05,680
Speaker 4: There's like part of.

397
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,639
Speaker 1: It that's just like like the kids all get to

398
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,440
Speaker 1: live together in the kid house and like you guys

399
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 1: have to work a lot, but you do sing with

400
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,359
Speaker 1: each other and there's all these beautiful things that I

401
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,920
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I mean a part of it does sound.

402
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:18,600
Speaker 3: I mean you can see when you read the book

403
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,159
Speaker 3: that once I didn't have.

404
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,280
Speaker 4: That, I was just like, what is life frozen off?

405
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,719
Speaker 3: You know? That was my whole life was was always

406
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,400
Speaker 3: being around a bunch of people my age and often unsupervised,

407
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,840
Speaker 3: so just like running wild as long as we did

408
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 3: our chores and you know, got back back home in time.

409
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Speaker 6: For whatever we had to do.

410
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,040
Speaker 3: There was just a lot of a lot of that

411
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,920
Speaker 3: and that was really really hard for.

412
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Speaker 6: Me to not have.

413
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:39,960
Speaker 3: Well.

414
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,399
Speaker 1: I think one of the interesting things too about the

415
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,240
Speaker 1: child who got his fingers cut off was that you

416
00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,600
Speaker 1: realize how far away you were from from the secular world?

417
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,160
Speaker 1: How how far away were other people from you guys?

418
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Speaker 3: Really? So like the hospital was I think like an

419
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 3: hour away Jeers and we you know, we would see

420
00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,120
Speaker 3: trucks drive by once in a while down the road,

421
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:05,240
Speaker 3: but mostly not even that.

422
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Speaker 6: So so really isolated.

423
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Speaker 2: What did you think of outside people? What was what

424
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:14,880
Speaker 2: would you call them?

425
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:15,720
Speaker 6: World people?

426
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 2: World people?

427
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,399
Speaker 3: Scared of them? You know, we were kind of race

428
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,640
Speaker 3: to believe that they didn't have souls and that they

429
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,440
Speaker 3: you know that if you went out in the world

430
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 3: you could be corrupted by them. That you know, listening

431
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 3: to commercials on TV, it was, you know, was world

432
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 3: people influence that could seep in. So they weren't even

433
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 3: really people to me. They were like one sort of

434
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,680
Speaker 3: zombie entity. Just made a term. I've never said that before,

435
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 3: but you know what I mean that they were just

436
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,840
Speaker 3: like something to be feared and something that we were

437
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 3: better than, but something that we were If we didn't

438
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,120
Speaker 3: watch it and you know, work on ourselves, we could

439
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,480
Speaker 3: turn into or we or people could just people did

440
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,640
Speaker 3: get kicked out, adults did. So there was also it's

441
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,520
Speaker 3: like there's a you know, you're surrounded by a mode

442
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 3: of world people. Right.

443
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:07,880
Speaker 2: What's interesting is that you your media consumption was extremely limited,

444
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,400
Speaker 2: but you also had movies that you had to watch,

445
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,440
Speaker 2: which is something that I've never heard of before, unless

446
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,160
Speaker 2: it's like a church film or something. Yeah, Melvin had

447
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 2: his list.

448
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, he had a list called the Lord's List.

449
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 4: He's the Lord.

450
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Lord. I mean, the man wrote a book

451
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 3: called The Autobiography of a World Savior. So, oh my,

452
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 3: if one didn't get a general idea of his beliefs

453
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 3: or as an adult, when I went back and read

454
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 3: these things, I can't even tell how ironic he's being.

455
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,120
Speaker 3: That's the thing. Like, I don't know if he meant

456
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,119
Speaker 3: it his first degree as the title sounds. But so

457
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 3: he had he had a list of like a hundred

458
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,919
Speaker 3: movies and that when they were on we had to

459
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 3: watch them. And then there was like ten of them

460
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,879
Speaker 3: were the all time greats, and I don't know, lucky

461
00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 3: for me, they were really good movies.

462
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:00,880
Speaker 4: What was one of them?

463
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 3: Mmmm? The one that pops to mind is To Have

464
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 3: and Have Not, which is Humphrey Bogart Lauren Baccall. It's

465
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 3: actually the movie where they fell in love the African Queen.

466
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,680
Speaker 6: Odd Man out.

467
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 3: Some bing Crosby movies from Fred Astaire movies, lots of

468
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 3: Betty Davis, Joan Crawford, so great movies. I mean, I

469
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,399
Speaker 3: my takeaway from that was that I wanted to be

470
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 3: a movie star.

471
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 6: Eliana Dietrich.

472
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 3: You know, I noticed as a kid that there was

473
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 3: always a shot where like, you know, it's close up

474
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 3: on the woman's eyes and they're sparkling, and you know,

475
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 3: I now understand it's like a lens, it's a you know,

476
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 3: it was a soft lens.

477
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:37,959
Speaker 4: Do you think he would have liked American Psycho?

478
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 2: Oh?

479
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 3: I don't want as a kid.

480
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, do you think he would have what?

481
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,280
Speaker 3: I like, what I've ever seen American Psycho? If I

482
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 3: didn't write it, it's another question.

483
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 4: I just wonder Melvin would have put it on the list.

484
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 3: You know, Oh god, it's so hard to say because

485
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 3: it's so modern, and you know, the movies that we

486
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 3: saw had this very sort of old old school sent

487
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 3: ability in terms of morals and ethics, and.

488
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 1: They were all kind of teaching you a lesson, but

489
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: none of them seemed really cohesive.

490
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Just reading some of his writings, it's like

491
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 2: always just like just staring at it, like trying to

492
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 2: understand what it meant.

493
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 3: And what's interesting too, is that so I went back

494
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 3: and read Mirror at the End of the Road, which

495
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 3: is his book, which I quote a lot in my

496
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 3: book as a way to sort of show the reader

497
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 3: this is the kind of rhetoric that we were raised with.

498
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 6: But I was like, I'm gonna read Mirror.

499
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 3: I'm gonna wrap my head around what it was that

500
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,199
Speaker 3: he was trying to teach, because as a kid, I

501
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 3: was like panicked all the time, like I don't understand this.

502
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 3: I don't understand this. Cut to forty years later, I'm

503
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 3: reading it and I'm like, hey, little kid, it doesn't

504
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 3: make sense. You weren't dumb or unevolved, like it's it

505
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 3: is like all over the place with you know, and

506
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 3: like and again I'm looking at it. I'm like, he's

507
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 3: playing with language, and he's he's sort of contradicting himself

508
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 3: and acknowledging that he's contradicting himself, and he's just fucking

509
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 3: with you basically, and not as certainly, even in a

510
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 3: mean spirited way. It's sort of like, well, what do

511
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 3: you think you know?

512
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: I read it in like a I'm extremely high on

513
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: acid sort of way.

514
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, possibly possibly. I mean there was a lot of acid,

515
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 3: you know, around when I was growing up.

516
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 2: It did seem like like quintessentially hippie esque in a

517
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 2: lot of the language and a lot of the like.

518
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 3: Bad trap, which is funny because they were very heme particular,

519
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 3: was very like, we're not hippies, right.

520
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 1: Cults always are like, we're not a cult, we're not hippies,

521
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: We're not that.

522
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 3: And Manson not that it was anything like Manson, but

523
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 3: he was also very like, we're not hippies, but like

524
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 3: he's sort of come to be iconically like part of

525
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 3: you know, the danger of the hippie movement, you know,

526
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 3: the hippie culture.

527
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 6: At that time.

528
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 2: Wow, that's so interesting.

529
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 3: It's actually a book that came out in the mid

530
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 3: seventies called Mind Fuckers, and it's about the Manson family

531
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 3: and the Lemon family.

532
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 4: Oh what were the parallels that they found?

533
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,040
Speaker 6: Because I did the The subheading was.

534
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 3: LSD and the Rise of Acid Fascism written by the

535
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 3: guy who wrote an article about the Lemon family for

536
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 3: Rolling Stone that kind of changed our lives, David Felton,

537
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 3: who I now know I love being an adult. And

538
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 3: then he wrote a book because he had also done

539
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 3: a profile in Manson just about how cult leaders basically

540
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 3: were using.

541
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 6: Acid to manipulate people.

542
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 2: Wow, that sounds fascinating. I also love the term acid fascism,

543
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 2: and I want to say it over and over.

544
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 3: It's kind of hard to say. Actually, it's a like,

545
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 3: you know, expensive book on eBay. It's you know, obviously

546
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 3: out of print, but it's it's interesting. It's also it's

547
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,199
Speaker 3: written by a Rolling Stone journalist in the seventies, in

548
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 3: his twenties, right, so it also has like you, it's

549
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,640
Speaker 3: kind of an interesting companion piece with something like Mirror

550
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 3: at the end of the Road because there's a way

551
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 3: of talking that was kind of already a little bit

552
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 3: groovy and offbeatn countercultural that doesn't quite feel like straight journalism.

553
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 4: Right journalism. Yeah, I of acids. So it's so hard

554
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 4: to like see it used for bad.

555
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 2: I still haven't tried it. Okay, Well let's start. Let's

556
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 2: start a little group. I mean, there's fine an ad

557
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 2: fascism group.

558
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 3: There's a whole sort of movement, you know, the ketamine

559
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 3: movement of you know, as of trauma recovery, and obviously

560
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 3: people are really into microdosing and all of these journeys.

561
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 3: So but to me, having done acid as an adult

562
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 3: not as a kid, I feel like I'm too grown

563
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 3: up now, Like I did have a lot in college,

564
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 3: but I didn't have as much to worry about, and

565
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 3: even then I would lose my mind a little bit

566
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 3: if I let myself. I feel like now I would

567
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 3: totally lose my mind. Like I can't handle all of this.

568
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 3: I need to just put one.

569
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 6: Foot in front of the other.

570
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 3: It's too stressful to be a real adult.

571
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 2: Totally fair, Totally fair.

572
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: So I'm glad they didn't give you guys ascid as children.

573
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: That was one of my questions. So no asset as children. No, okay, cool?

574
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: Right, because Diane Lake was given acid as a child

575
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 2: repeatedly because her parents were very much involved.

576
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 3: And yeah, hippie groups, Yeah no, we were definitely definitely

577
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 3: not that it's interesting and not. There was a thing

578
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 3: happened when we were kids that I tried to find

579
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 3: evidence of and couldn't, and so.

580
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 6: I didn't want to put it in the book. But

581
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 6: this is what happened.

582
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 3: A bunch of UCLA grad students came to the farm.

583
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,479
Speaker 3: I was like nine or ten or something, and they

584
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 3: they told us kids to take them around and show

585
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,719
Speaker 3: them around. I guess they were just studying us. Who

586
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 3: knows what isn't the thing? You're a kid, so you're

587
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 3: just like, yeah, this is what's happening. More people are coming.

588
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 3: But they were super young, they were grad students. They

589
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 3: kind of looked like all the adults we grow. But

590
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 3: so we showed them, you know, all, you know, all

591
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 3: around the property. But it was probably hours and really

592
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 3: boring and a bunch of although probably we were just

593
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 3: a bunch of freak kids and fascinating because we're just

594
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 3: like this dirty little gaggle of.

595
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 4: Like and this is the Starberry feel.

596
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 3: But then we showed them the barn in which there

597
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 3: were you know, hundreds of marijuana plants hanging from the

598
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 3: ceiling to try, which we didn't even understand that it

599
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 3: was illegal or that growing that much of it was

600
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 3: an issue at all. And you know, the UCLA people left,

601
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 3: and then we got in so much trouble for showing

602
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 3: them the reefer plants as we call them, and we

603
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 3: were all just like, what it's bad, and we knew

604
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: we weren't allowed to smoke, but we weren't allowed to

605
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 3: smoke Cigarett's either you know, right, or drink?

606
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: Were people selling weep? Is that or was it just

607
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 2: for no?

608
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 3: I don't think so.

609
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 6: They just smoked a lot of it.

610
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 4: Who was funding this?

611
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 1: So your mom's working a job. There's a lot of

612
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: people working jobs. And then it seems like Jesse's dad

613
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: had a lot of money.

614
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: Quickly, Who is Jesse before? Yeah?

615
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Jesse Benton Lyman was basically the leader of

616
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 3: the family after mel Lyman died and was already obviously,

617
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 3: you know, very powerful in the family. Benton Farm and

618
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 3: the property that we grew up in on Martha's Vineyard

619
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 3: were both properties that she inherited from her father, who

620
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,120
Speaker 3: was Thomas R. Benton, who was you know, his murals

621
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: are like huge offices in midtown and you know, his

622
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 3: paintings are hanging in the mat and you know, big time,

623
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 3: big time painter.

624
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 6: And so that's one place the money came from from Jesse.

625
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 3: And she met Melmon early on in the in the

626
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 3: development of the and the growth of.

627
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: The family, and had a cat with him, correct, yes,

628
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: had she had a kid before him with someone else,

629
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: and then she had Daria with him, and then she

630
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: had another kid see Bell with George.

631
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 6: I don't think the money came.

632
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 3: From her, aside from the fact that we lived on

633
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 3: these incredible properties. But they also had a construction company

634
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 3: that started in Boston when they just they bought up

635
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 3: all these houses in a row in Roxbury and then

636
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 3: they started, you know, fixing them, making them nice, you know,

637
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 3: making them into like a cohesive row of houses for us.

638
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 3: And then they started getting jobs, and then they started

639
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 3: they started the company in la and so the construction

640
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 3: company generated a lot of income.

641
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 4: Construction.

642
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: So funny how often it is, Yeah, really and what

643
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: what other polygamous most polygamist groups that oh right, the

644
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: business of choice, and there are so many of them construction.

645
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,959
Speaker 3: And then people like my mom, you know, went to

646
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 3: a Wall Street job and gave her money. There was

647
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 3: a person who worked for TV guide. A lot of

648
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 3: people living double lives and yeah, and that's it. And

649
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,719
Speaker 3: so we weren't. But it didn't feel like growing up

650
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 3: rich at all. Too many mouths to feed and a

651
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 3: lot of adults not working, you know, doing the maintenance,

652
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 3: taking care of the kids, taking care of the properties,

653
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 3: the vehicles that you know what I mean. There's just

654
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 3: when you have that many people and that much property.

655
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 3: There's a lot to do that isn't paid work.

656
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: Can you tell us who Jesse was to you and

657
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 2: what her status was in the group.

658
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 3: Yes, so Jesse was the queen. I mean, people unabashedly

659
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 3: called her the queen. She called herself the queen. She

660
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 3: was the queen.

661
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 6: She it's funny.

662
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 3: So I wrote this movie about the women who killed

663
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 3: fer Manson, and it's called Charlie says, And it had

664
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 3: a really hard time coming up with a title for that.

665
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 3: And then I thought to myself, when I was growing up,

666
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 3: Jesse says, Jesse says, Jesse says, was everybody when we

667
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 3: weren't even in the same place as her, it was,

668
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 3: Jesse says. Jesse said, And it became a running joke,

669
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 3: but it was also true.

670
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 6: So she was just everything.

671
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 3: Whatever she wanted, whatever she said was the right thing

672
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: to do, was what happened. Being in her favor and

673
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 3: not being in her favor was everything. And so as

674
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 3: a kid I was when I was younger, I wasn't

675
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 3: around her that much. I wasn't sort of part of

676
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: the kind of upper echelons. But then her daughter Daria

677
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 3: kind of took a liking to me, and I'm kind

678
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 3: of obsessed with Daria, and so then I just got

679
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 3: to go wherever Daria went. But Jesse was I just,

680
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 3: you know, I loved her, adored her, like she meant

681
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 3: everything to me. But I think it was true for

682
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 3: most of us, but in particular because she kind of

683
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 3: chose me and favored me for a while, I was,

684
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 3: you know, I was just obsessed, as the kids like

685
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 3: to say obsessed. I wasn't obsessed. I was She was

686
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 3: the closest thing I had to a mother figure, although

687
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 3: also obviously kind of scared of someone with that much power.

688
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: I was trying to understand how much was coming from

689
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 2: Mel and how much was coming from her, and like

690
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 2: what their power dynamic was, do you know?

691
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 3: I think I know now back then, as soon as

692
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 3: I was aware enough to know what was going on,

693
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 3: it was that Mel had decided he only wanted to

694
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 3: be awake at night, and so he had gone into

695
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 3: a total night schedule where hardly anyone ever saw him,

696
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 3: but Jesse would spend time with him, and then she

697
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 3: would tell everyone else what he had said, which I

698
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 3: do think is true, except I also now know that

699
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 3: he was sick and didn't want people to know that,

700
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 3: and so the dynamic there I think was, I mean,

701
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 3: I'll never really know what went on behind closed doors

702
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 3: and how sick he wasn't how much he told her

703
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 3: or how much he didn't care because he was sick

704
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 3: and just thinking about dying. I don't really know, but

705
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 3: I do know that she well, first of all, they

706
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 3: just lied about him dying.

707
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's very strange.

708
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I have no idea when they stopped doing that,

709
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 3: because that was the case. You know that he died

710
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy five.

711
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: Was there like any war about he'll never die like

712
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: some cults have, you know, like he's immortal or no.

713
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 3: I didn't know at the time, but I know it

714
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 3: now because I'm friends with some of the women I

715
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 3: grew up with. That the lore was that he was

716
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 3: going to come back, oh full Christ vibes, like, you know,

717
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 3: he was going to come back, and a year he

718
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 3: was going to resurrect.

719
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 2: Once people knew he was dead, or just when he died.

720
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 3: That was for the small group of people who did

721
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 3: know s that was it. And then I guess once

722
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 3: I just have no idea when they told people. By

723
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 3: the time I left four years after he died, people

724
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 3: were fully saying, well, Melbourne says this, and Melvin says that,

725
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 3: and I would just be looking at them, like, it's

726
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 3: so destabilizing to me that I know something that adults

727
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 3: don't know. It's something so big. And also what is

728
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 3: all of this when we're like raised with like truth

729
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 3: is the most important thing. Never lie and be honest

730
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 3: with yourself and everyone around you. And then like this

731
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 3: huge lie. But it was coming from Jesse.

732
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 4: Okay, two okay, two things. Number one.

733
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: Somewhere in the book you write that Jesse believed that

734
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: women should serve men so men can be creative. So

735
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: did you feel like she was kind of serving Melvin

736
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: at all or did she kind of, I don't know,

737
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: just get served herself and think that that was for

738
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: other women.

739
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 3: She was definitely served herself. Yeah, okay, I think just

740
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 3: whatever she wanted, whenever she wanted, you know, she like

741
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,239
Speaker 3: there she was not working for anyone. I mean, like

742
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,479
Speaker 3: she was with him, and then she was with you know,

743
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 3: a couple of different men. And then when I was

744
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 3: a kid, she was with this guy reagine. She would

745
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 3: you know, make him breakfast, especially once in a while.

746
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 3: But it was a thing right, you know anyway, okay, okay, yeah.

747
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 2: Like she's making all the kids like rub her feet

748
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 2: and all.

749
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 4: The girls, yeah, rub her feet.

750
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: And driving around in like luxury cars, in a luxury caravan.

751
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 2: It seems like she's literally living like a queen with

752
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 2: everyone serving her.

753
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

754
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: So you are on the farm, Jesse comes through as

755
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: she does every year. You become close with Daria, her daughter.

756
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 4: You kind of are able to tame her a little bit.

757
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: And Jesse says to an adult where you learn through

758
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: the grapevine you're going with them to La So suddenly

759
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: you're on the caravan, which had like a limousine, a

760
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: stretch limousine called Saturn.

761
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 4: Saturn, like we're all one license, you are.

762
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 3: One God when I was a kidd.

763
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: So you're you're suddenly whisked away from this farm in

764
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere with now like the royal family

765
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: going to Los Angeles.

766
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 3: Yes, wow, okay, Yeah, it was really exciting, Like I

767
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 3: was sad to leave all the kids that I was

768
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 3: there with because you know, those were my friends and

769
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,479
Speaker 3: these were people that I knew of but didn't know well.

770
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 6: But I was moving up.

771
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it almost really As I was reading it.

772
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: I was like, it's giving me the same feeling that

773
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 2: like almost famous gives me when they get to like

774
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 2: hang out with the band or like you get to

775
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 2: go on tour with them, you know, like the rock stars,

776
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 2: the people that are special that you don't You've never

777
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 2: gotten to be a part of that group. Now you're like,

778
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 2: not only a part of the group, you're going with them,

779
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 2: You're going on an adventure.

780
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean to be clear, and like my I

781
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 3: wasn't one of them, And that was clear to me

782
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 3: and everyone that my position there was tenuous, and that

783
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 3: was true for almost everyone, adults and kids like you.

784
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 3: Falling in and out of favor was just part of

785
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 3: the culture. So you were never on sure groundless, you

786
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 3: were select few people.

787
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 2: Can you just clarify the timeline, So you're on the farm,

788
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: you get to spend a couple of years with Jesse

789
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: and the crew. At what point does the end of

790
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: Is the end of the world supposed to happen in the.

791
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 3: Very beginning when I was the it's the opening sequence

792
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 3: of the book because that's kind of my earliest memory.

793
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 3: Oh it is, so I.

794
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 2: Was six, Okay, Yeah, tell us about that experience that was.

795
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 3: You know, really exciting day. We were all, you know,

796
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,959
Speaker 3: really excited about We were always like making wishes on Venus, which,

797
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 3: by the way, for people who don't know, is also

798
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 3: the star that you wish on. It's the first star

799
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 3: that you see. It's Venus. Ah, so you're wishing on

800
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 3: Venus even though you don't know it, you know, and

801
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 3: you know, calling spaceships and like obsessing over UFO sidings,

802
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 3: which were so huge at that time. And we just

803
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 3: you know, all got ourselves ready and you know, we

804
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 3: had to pick one toy and whatever we wanted to

805
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 3: wear to Venus, and we sat there and waited and

806
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 3: waited and waited and untill a sudden.

807
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 6: Came up and nothing happened.

808
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: So you guys are like, he tells you, I think

809
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: it's January fifth or something arbitrary. They're coming, they're coming today.

810
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: And the adults around you, some of who have gone

811
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: to college and know that Jupiter has no water or Venus,

812
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: what is that Venus?

813
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 4: Venus?

814
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: Venus has no water, but by the way.

815
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 4: Is very hot.

816
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: But they're like, but that's where we're going, and they

817
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: mean it. Like when you describe you guys all sitting

818
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: around waiting. The women had I don't know why, this

819
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 1: just blows my mind, but they had their bags with them,

820
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: like their purses.

821
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 3: You know, with them, like they were going, and what

822
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 3: was in their bags? Like are you going to eat

823
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 3: tshoes on? Yes?

824
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can live on Venus in an uninhabitable planet.

825
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 2: I feel like you don't miracles.

826
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: But I mean that they were going. And and what

827
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: was the reason Melvin gave you that no one came

828
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 1: for you? He said, or he said to people who

829
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 1: said to us.

830
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 3: That our souls weren't ready, that his soul was ready

831
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 3: and we had all ruined it for him. And then

832
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 3: he randomly set the year to zero, which is why

833
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 3: my book you'll see like it's it's zero four, it's

834
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 3: zero five, and decided that we were no longer going

835
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 3: to observe daily savings time, so we would then half

836
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 3: the year we were world time in.

837
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 4: Our time separation.

838
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 3: But no, no concrete reason.

839
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,399
Speaker 4: How the fuck did you guys learn how to read

840
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 4: and write?

841
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, great question, It's I'm not entirely sure, but we

842
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 3: definitely all did. And you know, and we had we

843
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 3: were homeschooled. Obviously we didn't we didn't leave or go

844
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 3: anywhere else for education except for you know, one little

845
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 3: break that didn't go well.

846
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 6: So which I also don't remember how.

847
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 3: I learned how to crochet, but I've been doing it

848
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 3: my whole life, do.

849
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 6: You know what I mean?

850
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 3: Like it's it was there, but I don't remember it

851
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 3: being particularly structured.

852
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 6: But it wasn't.

853
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 3: Like I loved reading, and so I got that like

854
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 3: everybody had to. Everybody was at a level of reading.

855
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 3: And I mean I really learned how much not math

856
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 3: when I actually got to school in the outside world.

857
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: Right, I just knew ventriloquism. I don't remember learning it

858
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 2: in a structured way. Same thing, right, I.

859
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 3: Mean that's the thing about little teaching very young kids things.

860
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 3: As you know, it's just becomes like what you know

861
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 3: how to do?

862
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you are, like your journal entries are like

863
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 2: really well written, and I like, notably, I feel like

864
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: compared to some of mine around the same age, like

865
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 2: you sound a lot more advanced than me. So that

866
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 2: is really interesting, was it like? But everyone it was

867
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 2: everyone was supposed to journal, right, yes.

868
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 3: Although I took it really seriously and a lot of

869
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 3: people just kind of let it fall by the wayside

870
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 3: and adults forgot about it and it was a big deal.

871
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 6: I think I just liked it, and I also saw.

872
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 3: It as a way to kind of publicly redeem myself

873
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 3: or absolve myself, you know. I was like those those

874
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 3: diaries are there's such an interesting intersection of things because

875
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 3: it's not really me and how I feel, but it's

876
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 3: just enough of that to perform that so that if

877
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 3: someone were reading it, they would think they were reading

878
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 3: something personal, so that I could say that I felt

879
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 3: bad about something that I did, and it would be

880
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 3: on record that I that I.

881
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: Did, and people were reading it, yeah, every day and

882
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,479
Speaker 1: taking notes in it and writing that.

883
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that girls were my friends.

884
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

885
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 3: I would just write high or like this is dumb,

886
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 3: I think this is school, which you know, they I

887
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 3: was doing the same thing in their diaries. It was

888
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,400
Speaker 3: it was like a conversation we were having. But I

889
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 3: also knew that adults would read it too if they

890
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 3: felt like it, if there was something they wanted to know.

891
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 3: So so I don't know, that's just who I am.

892
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 3: I guess maybe that's why they said I'd been on

893
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 3: the planet for too long. I was.

894
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 6: I just wrote too well, like a vampire, like how

895
00:40:59,560 --> 00:40:59,919
Speaker 6: old look.

896
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 3: I was reading a review on good Reads of the book,

897
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 3: and she kind of the woman writing the review kind

898
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 3: of called into question. She's like, I feel like this

899
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 3: is just a book about a nine year old with

900
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,760
Speaker 3: a really good vocabulary. And I was like, I wouldn't.

901
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 3: I would be such a corrupt human if I had

902
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 3: made myself a really articulate nine year old, you know

903
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 3: what I mean? That would just be dumb and embarrassing.

904
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 3: I'm so happy that I have that writing because it also,

905
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 3: I think, contextualizes I don't know, just the level at

906
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 3: which we were asked to think the.

907
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,439
Speaker 4: Whole journey, and how confusing it.

908
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,439
Speaker 2: Was, yeah, and how much you had to perform all

909
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 2: the time, Like if even in your even your journal

910
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 2: is not a safe space to have your own thoughts,

911
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 2: Like where where are you allowed to have your own thoughts?

912
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 3: Right? But I didn't feel that, hm, because the most

913
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 3: the biggest crime you could be is self involved and

914
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 3: not thinking of yourself as part of you, know, of everyone.

915
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 6: So I was if I ever felt that I felt

916
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 6: guilty about it.

917
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 3: The idea of wanting alone time or wanting something for yourself,

918
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 3: or the idea of privacy was just what like, who

919
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 3: the fuck do you think you are.

920
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 4: Right speaking about self involved? Who was Pedra?

921
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: Pedra the Wiji board spirit, and what was her message

922
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 1: for you?

923
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 3: So they loved Wuigi boards.

924
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 6: There was a lot of Ouiji board talk.

925
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 3: And they would mostly the adults would talk to various

926
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 3: spirits and they were transcribe those conversations and they were

927
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 3: like books, binders and binders and binders of these conversations.

928
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 3: But kids weren't allowed, but we were. We were allowed

929
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 3: to talk to this one spirit, Phedra. She was like

930
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 3: the kid's spirit. So it was very exciting.

931
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 6: So she told me I was lazy.

932
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 3: I swear to this day when I'm doing something and

933
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 3: I'm like, hmm, I don't feel like I feel Fedra.

934
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 3: I'm just like, like, it really got under my skin,

935
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 3: the laziness.

936
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 4: It said it in front of everyone.

937
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: I mean, she's the Wigi board was performative in front

938
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: of everyone. This little girl's just making shut up and

939
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: then she calls you lazi.

940
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 2: Right like it's it's another girl. It's an older girl

941
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 2: who yeah, was controlling it, right, yeah.

942
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 3: And they and I'm sure they were just I don't

943
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 3: see there is the thing you just I just don't

944
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 3: know to this day how much people believed and how

945
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 3: much was was actively manipulative. Also, if you've ever touched

946
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 3: a Wuiji board like it, will you know it moves.

947
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 6: It moves I don't even know.

948
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 2: But you even like think it's going to spell it

949
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: a word. It's very easy for your fingers.

950
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 4: Never had it move.

951
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're holding it too tightly.

952
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 4: Okay, that makes sense of everything in my life. I

953
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,399
Speaker 4: need to because I've been your.

954
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 2: Little thing is like messed up on the book.

955
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 4: Let's play that soon.

956
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so Phedra's a total bitch and tells you

957
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: that I was.

958
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 3: I was really devastated. I thought, you know, because she's

959
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 3: a spirit too, so she can see me all the time. Yeah,

960
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 3: watching me now, and like I better get my shit together,

961
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 3: and you know, work hard at this and work hard

962
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 3: at that.

963
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 6: Like it it worked. If they were trying to manipulate me.

964
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 3: I think I became a much more intense worker bee

965
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 3: because of it, because I just didn't want Bador's disapproval.

966
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 2: I feel like you were getting negative messages about you

967
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 2: and your character, like your entire childhood from everyone. Do

968
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 2: you feel that, like I believe Jesse randomly one day

969
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 2: told you she didn't love you anymore. Your mother said

970
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,399
Speaker 2: some things I'm forgetting right now. But like people were

971
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 2: just kind of always telling your an aeras.

972
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 3: Nightmare. You mean, like, am I like deeply damaged and

973
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 3: traumatize on it as an adult, but like.

974
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 2: Was your message was your like childhood takeaway? Just like

975
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 2: this constant feeling of like needing to fix yourself and

976
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 2: be better and like not being good enough.

977
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 6: Absolutely, yeah.

978
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 3: And I was always being told that I was a

979
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 3: Gemini con, meaning that my Gemini ness I have a

980
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 3: lot of Gemini in my chart, just to be clear,

981
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 3: my Mercury and my Mars are also and insion to

982
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 3: my son sign that even when I was trying to

983
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 3: do the right thing, it was just a con. That sucks.

984
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 3: It was hard because I because I believed it, of course.

985
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you and you don't have OCD? Now,

986
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 2: that seems the level of like meta thinking and like

987
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 2: having to constantly like check your own thought. I mean,

988
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: it just seems like a recipe for obsessiveness.

989
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 3: I do. I only sort of sort of understood OCD

990
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 3: and then seen what how I have OCD tendencies And

991
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 3: it's all around superstition and luck. And I mean, if

992
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 3: you want to fuck with me, tell me something is

993
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 3: bad luck. Even if I'm like that stupid, it will

994
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 3: I will. I will follow it for the rest of

995
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 3: my life. It's that's right. That's you know, slightly crippling

996
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 3: kind of thing that you can't right, you know, on

997
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:15,879
Speaker 3: the off chance that it's bad.

998
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 2: What if I tell you it's good luck?

999
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 3: If you tell me something is good like, yeah, no,

1000
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 3: that too, Oh great, yeah cool, that works too.

1001
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 2: I'll think of something.

1002
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna have a bag full of weird ship.

1003
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 3: It's good luck. But what's interesting about that? So somebody

1004
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,280
Speaker 3: along the way told me as an adult that putting

1005
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 3: your bag on the floor is bad luck for money.

1006
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 3: I've heard that, and so because of what is probably

1007
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 3: OCD when I see a woman or anyone, But if

1008
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 3: this happens in restaurants, I see women who's put her

1009
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 3: bag on the floor, I can't really focus on the conversation.

1010
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 3: I can't see your bags right now, or I would

1011
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 3: said something already.

1012
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 6: It's hard for me to focus on the conversation.

1013
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 3: And so if it's not totally weird, I will say

1014
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 3: to women, did you know you know it's bad luck

1015
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 3: or they say them the time.

1016
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 6: The woman go, oh my god, thank you.

1017
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 3: If I've just given some science knowledge.

1018
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean I will never put my bag

1019
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: on the floor again. I promise you that.

1020
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 2: See, this is why I've made no money this year.

1021
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: Can we go into like the new compound you're on,

1022
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 1: it's with Melvin, but you don't see Melvin, so you're

1023
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: kind of there with Daria And how do you pronounce Plati?

1024
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 4: That is a name, clild.

1025
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 3: And she's she's interesting because when I was writing the book,

1026
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 3: I'm good friends with her as adults. I asked her,

1027
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 3: you know, do you want me to change your name?

1028
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 3: It's you know, such a distinct name. I've literally never

1029
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 3: met anyone with that name. She was like nope. She

1030
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,479
Speaker 3: was like everyone in my life who knows me knows

1031
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 3: where I come from, and I don't care if other

1032
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 3: people know, Like yes, use men. I was like, okay,

1033
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 3: well here we go. Clothes shield. It's like really specific,

1034
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 3: kind of like my name. And I did change some

1035
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 3: names in the book because I asked some of the

1036
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 3: women I grew up well if they wanted me to.

1037
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 1: So she's Melvin's wife and how old is she and

1038
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 1: how old is he?

1039
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 3: That started when she was twelve and he was I

1040
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 3: don't know, at least in his late thirties, if not forties.

1041
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 6: He was a little bit older than most of the

1042
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 6: people of the family.

1043
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,720
Speaker 2: And that was pretty common in the group.

1044
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 3: That was common for the more powerful men, and it

1045
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 3: was just starting like that was the first was when

1046
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 3: he married Clothes heialed.

1047
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 6: For those of you listening, I put married in air quotes.

1048
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 3: There was not an actual ceremony, nor was it legal,

1049
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 3: but it is what we called it. And when he

1050
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 3: married Clothes held then that like in the coming few

1051
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:54,800
Speaker 3: years of few of the other powerful men took on women,

1052
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 3: you know, girls, girls, let's be clear around that age.

1053
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: So you who eventually end up living in it was

1054
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,479
Speaker 2: the same house as Clotil, No.

1055
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 3: They were. They lived in the big house, the adult's

1056
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 3: house Daria, Clotil, Mal Jessie and a few other adults,

1057
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 3: and then the kid's house, which is you know, a

1058
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 3: five minute walking on the same piece of property is

1059
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 3: where I lived. But I kind of always stayed there

1060
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 3: and slept in Daria's room, like I was kind of

1061
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 3: always there, and sometimes days would go by where I

1062
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 3: wouldn't go to the kid's house.

1063
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:34,320
Speaker 1: God, So who told you Melvin was no longer with us?

1064
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 2: Uh?

1065
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 6: Daria? So, Daria, you know.

1066
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 3: I just came to see her one day and she

1067
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 3: was crying, crying, and she told me that he was dead.

1068
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 3: And then she's like, but you know, only like these

1069
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 3: couple of adults, No, not even all of his kids

1070
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 3: were told, So don't tell anyone. So that was just

1071
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 3: so anxiety producing for me because I felt like I

1072
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 3: was going to get in trouble for it somehow, like

1073
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 3: somebod who's gonna fin o that I did know, and

1074
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 3: that I was going to be in trouble for it,

1075
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 3: which is like sort of an irrational spin out of

1076
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 3: like but you just never know. It just felt dangerous

1077
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 3: to have this information. And then, as I was saying,

1078
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 3: like increasingly more anxiety producing to see that adults really

1079
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 3: did for years for the rest of my childhood, act

1080
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 3: like he was alive, and I would think, do they

1081
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 3: really know? And they're just pretending? But then's the way

1082
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 3: some people will talk. I'm like, they definitely don't know,

1083
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 3: like they It was so so earnest and so not

1084
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 3: trickery re at all, Like, well, I meboy wants this,

1085
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 3: so we're going to do this.

1086
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 1: So you were just private to a giant secret. Yeah,

1087
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: and the whole world around you is operating like this

1088
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: person because he's changed his schedule to nights only so

1089
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: no one would see him anyway. And everyone's just pretending

1090
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,760
Speaker 1: he's still alive in his bedroom, but you know he's dead.

1091
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 2: That is crazy, crazy, And poor Clotilde who has to

1092
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 2: pretend she's like spending every night with him. I like

1093
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 2: she's his wife, which already is insane, that should not

1094
00:50:58,560 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 2: be the case.

1095
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,680
Speaker 3: But she lived there was a room built off of

1096
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 3: his room that was her room with her pet squirrel,

1097
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 3: But you had to go through his room to get

1098
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 3: to it, and so she would. His door was always closed,

1099
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 3: so she would go in there and close the door

1100
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:11,840
Speaker 3: and came out.

1101
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 6: And close the door.

1102
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 3: Took go on at once, right, Yeah, one time she

1103
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 3: showed me the room, but she didn't tell me he

1104
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 3: was sad, even though I knew, but she didn't know

1105
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 3: I knew.

1106
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 4: She said he was meditating.

1107
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, in his pyramid. He had a pyramid on the problem.

1108
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 4: What did his room look like? And how did she

1109
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 4: get a pet squirrel?

1110
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 3: His room just looked like a room. You know, it

1111
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 3: was nice, fancy Spanish style house in la and but

1112
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 3: very neat everything in his place. And I think somebody

1113
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 3: found the squirrel and it was going to die, and

1114
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 3: she said she wanted it, and then they built this

1115
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 3: whole cage in like a huge cage that took up

1116
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 3: most of her room. And his name was Jode, after

1117
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 3: Tom Jode. And even when she found out that it

1118
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,479
Speaker 3: was the squirrel, Jode was actually a girl. We kept

1119
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 3: the name and.

1120
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 4: It rode on her shoulder. Yeah, this is just wild.

1121
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 2: It's feeling like like Game of Thrones or something like

1122
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 2: you have like a child bride who's married to a

1123
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 2: dead king who's scroom for her squirrel. Like none of

1124
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 2: this sounds Yeah, it's.

1125
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: Definitely serving fairy tale y.

1126
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 3: That's funny. Is years ago a good friend of mine

1127
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 3: I was I would tell them stories about how I

1128
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 3: grew up and stuff, and then at some point I

1129
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 3: talked about Lauren and Lymon, who were these twin dwarves

1130
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 3: little people they we called them dwarves at the time,

1131
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 3: who were mel Lymon's cousins. And I just I was saying, oh, yeah,

1132
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 3: then there was lord in Lymon. They were twins, you know.

1133
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 3: And my friend was like, that's it. You crossed the

1134
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 3: line now, I know you made all that ship up.

1135
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,480
Speaker 3: No fucking twin dwarves, like you really, you're getting way

1136
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 3: out of line. Yeah yeah yeah, And I was like no,

1137
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 3: but for real, I promise you that.

1138
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:53,280
Speaker 4: Wow, that's crazy.

1139
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: And that concludes part one of our interviews, So say

1140
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 2: tune next week for part two.

1141
00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 4: It is so good.

1142
00:52:58,800 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 3: She is so good.

1143
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 2: But Megan, I must ask you, now, do you think

1144
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 2: you would join the Limon family?

1145
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 1: Fuck? Yes, I would join the Limon family. There is

1146
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 1: no way you could keep me from not. I am

1147
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: ashamed to say. I love acid, I love art, I

1148
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: love communes, I love Martha's Vineyard, Kansas and Los Angeles.

1149
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: I love paintings and having like fake brothers and sisters

1150
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 1: that have slumber parties. There was a lot that I

1151
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: don't like. Believe me, like this cult is sick. And again,

1152
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 1: everybody please read the book. But on the surface, you

1153
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: got me.

1154
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:43,919
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to say I'm with you on this one.

1155
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 2: I wouldn't. It's not normally the type of cult that

1156
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 2: I feel like would be my cult. But the sleepovers

1157
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 2: get me. Yeah, you know, and the I don't know,

1158
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 2: there is something about that era of cult that just

1159
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 2: feels like I get why it had magic or it.

1160
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 2: You know, I get why people wanted that community and

1161
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 2: that like Trippier like self actualization type of communal living.

1162
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 2: Like I fully get why people wanted to do that,

1163
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 2: Like I want to do that now. Probably my interests

1164
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:21,919
Speaker 2: would differ in the end, but yeah, I could totally

1165
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 2: see the appeal.

1166
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: The way she describes it is so beautiful. I mean,

1167
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 1: she captures that magic and she is an extraordinary writer.

1168
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 2: Yes, I was going to say that as well, Like

1169
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,399
Speaker 2: people will write about their experiences, they'll write these books

1170
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 2: about things they went through or their cultus or whatever,

1171
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 2: and they're great. But like most of them, you know,

1172
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 2: they're not always beautiful writers as well. It's often the

1173
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 2: story that's compelling. But she her language, her use of

1174
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:56,280
Speaker 2: words is just like stunning. Like I love the book.

1175
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 2: I was totally totally transfixed. So I mean it is

1176
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 2: testament to the fact that she is a professional writer.

1177
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 2: I guess that's how that works.

1178
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true.

1179
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: Anyway, Please buy the book, read it be transfixed, and

1180
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: as always, thank you so much for listening to us.

1181
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: We can't wait to see you again next week. Next

1182
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 1: week where we will complete part two. So for today,

1183
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: remember to follow your gut, watch out for red flags,

1184
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,799
Speaker 1: and never ever trust me ye ye.

1185
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 2: Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and

1186
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.

1187
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 4: With special thanks to Stacy Para and.

1188
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 2: Our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1189
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1190
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

1191
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1192
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1193
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1194
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 1: Hits on Twitter.

1195
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word. I

1196
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:06,359
Speaker 2: want to see something really scary, check out be Very

1197
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 2: Afraid Oh Horror Podcasts, where I, Gabby Rapp and my.

1198
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 3: Co host Brian Liberty discuss.

1199
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 2: Dissect, and deconstruct the scariest scenes ever film.

1200
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,280
Speaker 1: Every Tuesday, we're covering a new film or TV show,

1201
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: talking about familiar favorites, new releases, and.

1202
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 2: Deep comes from Beetlejuice to Barbarian Funny Games to Fright

1203
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 2: Night Motel Hell to Midnight Mass and everything in between.

1204
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,399
Speaker 2: Be very Afraid episodes release every Tuesday on podcast one

1205
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 2: or wherever you can get your podcasts.