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Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on

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Speaker 1: need help and all those who think with not getting

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Speaker 1: it right, they should commish was how to get it right?

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Speaker 1: Republican governors using migrants as political pond is shameful. Their

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Speaker 1: virtue signaling is a from Bloomberg Sound on Politics, Policy

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Speaker 1: and Perspective from DC's top name. I am very pleased

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Speaker 1: to announce a tentative labor agreement between that has been

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Speaker 1: reached between the railroad workers and the railway company's paper products,

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Speaker 1: the grain based products. They will be there. There will

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Speaker 1: be enough. Don't ask Schloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. Immigration moves to the front page, has

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Speaker 1: two Republican governors continue bussing undocumented migrants north. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the fastest hour in politics, as Martha's vineyard becomes the

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Speaker 1: latest destination for immigrants along with Kamala Harris's front yard.

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Speaker 1: This morning, the legal implications are looming large, and we'll

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Speaker 1: explore them with Leon Fresco, formerly with the Office of

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Speaker 1: Immigration Litigation at the Justice Department Civil Division. Later, President

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Speaker 1: she meets Vladimir Putin. Will they hug each other into isolation?

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Speaker 1: We'll talk with former Ambassador to the U N and

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Speaker 1: Russia Thomas Pickering, and analysis from the panel. Bloomberg Politics

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Speaker 1: contributor Republican strategist Rick Davis is with us along with

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Speaker 1: Jim Kessler, co founder of Third Way. The White House

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Speaker 1: calling out Republican governors Rhonda Santis of Florida and Greg

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Speaker 1: Abbott of Texas for bussing undocumented immigrants to democratic cities.

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Speaker 1: This has been going on for weeks, cities like New York, Chicago, Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. Calling their actions cruel and shameful stunts. Today

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Speaker 1: it's not the first time this has come up at

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Speaker 1: the White House in the briefing, but well, today it

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Speaker 1: was a whole new level of concern and urgency as

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Speaker 1: bus loads of immigrants were sent from Texas to Vice

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Speaker 1: President Kamala Harris's home that would be the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Naval Observatory right up there on Massachusetts Avenue, and also

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Speaker 1: two planeloads from Florida to, of all places, Martha's vineyard.

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Speaker 1: We're you know, at church in some community groups were

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Speaker 1: luckily there to give them shelter and food. Many of

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Speaker 1: them seem overwhelmed. We just started feeding people outside while

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Speaker 1: they were standing around because everybody was just really hungry,

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Speaker 1: and then moved them inside us as we got people

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Speaker 1: on cops in the parish fall. We've got people on

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Speaker 1: cops here, We've got families on air mattresses down in

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Speaker 1: homeless shelter in the library. Barbara Rush from St. Andrew's

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Speaker 1: Parish on the vineyard, talking today with ABC News. White

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Speaker 1: House Press Secretary Korean John Pierre asked about this, condemned

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Speaker 1: the actions of the two Republican governors. There's a process

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Speaker 1: in place, we have had a process in place. There's

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Speaker 1: a legal way of doing this um and for managing migrants.

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Speaker 1: Republican governors interfering in that process and using migrants as

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Speaker 1: political ponds is is shameful, is reckless, and just plan wrong.

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Speaker 1: So as usual, there's a political side to this, and

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Speaker 1: there's also illegal when it sounds like based on her

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Speaker 1: answer by the way she says people sent to the

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Speaker 1: vineyard in this case were promised housing and jobs. Let's

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Speaker 1: bring on Leon Fresco, partner at Holland and Knight, former

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Speaker 1: Deputy Assistant Attorney General for the Office of Immigration Litigation

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Speaker 1: at the Justice Department's Civil Division. Leon, it's great to

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Speaker 1: have you with us here? Do I hear Karine Jean

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Speaker 1: Pierre correctly that the White House might be suggesting this

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Speaker 1: is illegal. Well, I think they're gonna have to look

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Speaker 1: because there's a couple of laws that don't necessarily fit perfectly.

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Speaker 1: There's an unlawful transport foreign national law that might apply,

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Speaker 1: but that would only apply if they could only be

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Speaker 1: prosecuted under that if they had sort of done the

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Speaker 1: travel in further into uh, the unlawful entry that was

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Speaker 1: initially effectuated into the United States, And so Texas would

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Speaker 1: say that that's not going to really apply because they

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Speaker 1: were already at it by ice and allowed to be

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Speaker 1: released after that travel. So that one would work. But

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Speaker 1: there also could be a trafficking law that would be

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Speaker 1: put into place that you could actually sue on there,

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Speaker 1: which would occur if you misled people into being transported

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Speaker 1: across the line, And so that one, you know, depending

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Speaker 1: on if they want to get serious, they could start

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Speaker 1: they could start charging people for human trafficking there. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So that I guess that, you know. The question so

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Speaker 1: many people have is I realized that these are undocumented immigrants,

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Speaker 1: They are from another country. They don't have the rights

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Speaker 1: of an American citizen. But is it legal for a

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Speaker 1: governor of any state to send them wherever they want

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason? Well, it is certainly legal if you're

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Speaker 1: doing it voluntarily. So if you're saying, look, they're the

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Speaker 1: entry point for four nationals from the southern borders in Texas,

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Speaker 1: that once they arrived in Texas, you sort people out

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Speaker 1: and you ask them where is your final and the destination,

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Speaker 1: and then you send them to Chicago. If that destination

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Speaker 1: is closest to Chicago or New York and is closest

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Speaker 1: to New York, none of that's going to be illegal.

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Speaker 1: But if you mislead people and you tell them, oh,

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Speaker 1: this boss is going to Boston and you send them

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Speaker 1: to markets vineyard or something, where you start to potentially

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Speaker 1: have legal problems. How about if you promise jobs and

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Speaker 1: housing that's not there, correct, That's the whole point. Now

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Speaker 1: it's gonna matter is who's doing the promising under what

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Speaker 1: authority are they doing it? Is it sort of a

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Speaker 1: rhetorical promise or in the an actual promise, And those

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Speaker 1: are the kinds of things that are gonna have to

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Speaker 1: be investigated. Boy, these are really great questions here that

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Speaker 1: I know at least in the case of Florida, there's

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Speaker 1: a state program that funds twelve million dollars for relocating

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Speaker 1: undocumented immigrants. Is it legal to use taxpayer money to

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Speaker 1: fly them again? It would be. But here's what's a

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Speaker 1: little bit strange about Florida. Almost none of the undocumented

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Speaker 1: population that the United States of dealing with comes into Florida.

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Speaker 1: Only a very small group of migrants who would be

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Speaker 1: coming from Cuba through the water. So the people who

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Speaker 1: are actually being sent from Texas to Florida intend for

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Speaker 1: Florida to be their final destination because they have relatives there.

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Speaker 1: And so for Florida I actually send people out, if

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Speaker 1: it's going to be doing it against their will, then

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Speaker 1: that would be illegal. I would actually be on a

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Speaker 1: lawful imprisonment, which you're not allowed to do in that situation,

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Speaker 1: and you could actually be civilly or criminally prosecuted. What

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Speaker 1: happened in the case where they pull people to our

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Speaker 1: divine here is they stopped in Florida. But that's white

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Speaker 1: originated in Texas, and so that's the point here is

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Speaker 1: this money is really not going to be used to

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Speaker 1: take people from Florida proper to anywhere else, because Florida

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Speaker 1: is not an entry point, it's actually a final destination

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Speaker 1: for a lot of men. Well, there's nothing complicated about this, Leon,

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Speaker 1: And you know, I just wonder, based on your experience,

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Speaker 1: if the Department of Justice has a case to pursue

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Speaker 1: here because the White House is referring questions to them,

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Speaker 1: I think they are going to need to make tract

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Speaker 1: intensive analysis about what people are being told when they're

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Speaker 1: being answering all these buses that all these trades and

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Speaker 1: I'll be played. And if people are being misled, then

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Speaker 1: there is an unlawful imprisonment and there's a trafficking component

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Speaker 1: that the Department of Justice can potentially prosecute people for.

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Speaker 1: And the question is isn't going to want to do

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Speaker 1: that in this situation? Yeah? Right? Leon Fresco is with

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Speaker 1: US Holland and Knight and spend time as Deputy Assistant

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Speaker 1: Attorney General for the Office of Immigration Litigation at the

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Speaker 1: d j's Civil Division, So we have an expert on

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Speaker 1: this story here. How about the other way around? Just

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Speaker 1: to look at this, if if if the United States

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Speaker 1: releases an undocumented immigrant, is there any obligation to provide

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Speaker 1: food or shelter at that point. No, what happens at

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Speaker 1: that point once the once the once somebody the pained

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Speaker 1: by the Department of Homeland Security upon their initial unlawful

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Speaker 1: entry and they've been cleared to basically they're called released

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Speaker 1: on their own recognizance of their cordiering. At that point, Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: it's up to that human being to basically say alive

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Speaker 1: but cordering. So let's say your sent to Martha's Vineyard

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Speaker 1: in that case, like that means they still have a

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Speaker 1: court date. I'm assuming that's not going to be on

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Speaker 1: the vineyard or how's that going to work? Correct? Correct?

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Speaker 1: Now they can file a change the venue to have

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Speaker 1: their coord date in Boston. But the point is they're

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Speaker 1: not going to really end up at Martha's Vineyard because like,

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Speaker 1: these people have some sort of plan. They don't just

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Speaker 1: come to the US with no plan. They have a

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Speaker 1: general idea. They're trying to get the family or to

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Speaker 1: someone else. I got you, yes, correct? Wow, Leon, we're

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Speaker 1: learning a lot here. How How long can this go

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Speaker 1: on before the d o J says something? Because it's

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Speaker 1: it's this has been you know all summer. New York

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Speaker 1: is at the point where the homeless shelters are to

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Speaker 1: the maxed out there people from other countries there well.

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Speaker 1: I think there are a lot of cities that are

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Speaker 1: now starting to grapple with contingency planning for what will

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Speaker 1: happen if people are being brought to their cities. I

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Speaker 1: do think you're going to continue to see this. I

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Speaker 1: don't think this is going to end any time soon,

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Speaker 1: because I do think we're in a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a what I would call an attrition factor here where

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Speaker 1: Texas really is trying to get trying to force some

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Speaker 1: action here, and they I think they actually would welcome

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Speaker 1: some sort of litigation or something on this run because

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Speaker 1: they're they're basically trying to force that next step. That's

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Speaker 1: where this is going to go locality, right, And the

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Speaker 1: question is for these localities, can they basically come up

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Speaker 1: with a logistical turnaround that's quick click enough because they

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Speaker 1: don't have to use shelters, that they could basically re

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Speaker 1: round people to the locations they're actually trying to intend

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Speaker 1: to go to. And that's what's going to be the

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Speaker 1: real issue here. Okay, I got you. And so in

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Speaker 1: the meantime, you wait for the activist group to file

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Speaker 1: the lawsuit and at the ball rolling Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think whoever it is, I think there's the potential,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the potential lawsuit that the actual undocumented people

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Speaker 1: who have been transported can say is that they were

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Speaker 1: transported against their will using trickery or false pretense. And

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Speaker 1: if you do that, that kind of interstate trafficking of

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Speaker 1: a person can get some person in trouble. But you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to prove a causation of who likes you

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Speaker 1: and where they ordered to like to you, etcetera. Got

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Speaker 1: it fascinating? Leon Fresco, thanks for your time and coming

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Speaker 1: back to talk to us. He's at Holland and Night

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Speaker 1: now former Deputy Assistant Attorney General Immigration Litigation at d

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Speaker 1: j's Civil Division, with us on the fastest hour in politics.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. Sound on. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington.

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Speaker 1: We're going to connect in a moment on the line

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Speaker 1: with a state senator from Massachusetts who's obviously is uh.

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Speaker 1: Area includes Martha's Vineyard, which is you know what, uh,

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Speaker 1: forty five minute ferry ride from Hyannis, and I do

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Speaker 1: wonder from Falmouth at least a little longer from Hyannis.

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Speaker 1: I wonder what he's got to tell us, because they're

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Speaker 1: still trying to figure out, as as Leon said, what

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Speaker 1: were they told, who actually sent them, who put them

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Speaker 1: on the buses and the airplanes, and what were they promised.

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Speaker 1: We'll have the panel weigh in on this coming up

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Speaker 1: as well. Have you ever heard of the reverse freedom rides?

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Speaker 1: You ever heard that story in nineteen six two. This

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Speaker 1: this is really something because this was not in my

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Speaker 1: history book in school. Segregation is from the South came

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Speaker 1: up with a plan to shame northern liberals by sending

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Speaker 1: African Americans from the South up to northern cities. It's

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Speaker 1: pretty remarkable here, uh, when you think about history. They

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Speaker 1: went to northern cities, including of all places, Cape Cod.

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Speaker 1: Half of them went to Hyenas, the home of the Kennedy's.

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Speaker 1: They were promised jobs and housing. This actually happened. Some

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Speaker 1: were told, in fact, that Kennedy's would be waiting for

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Speaker 1: them when they got off the bus in Hyenas. None

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Speaker 1: of that was true, of course, But north they went

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Speaker 1: and fascinating to hear the language the rhetoric from these

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Speaker 1: two guys, George Singleman and Amos Guthridge were the so

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Speaker 1: called architects of the reverse freedom rides. They were interviewed

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two. This is from a story on NPR.

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Speaker 1: Listen to the language they use. The ultimate accomplishment, of course,

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Speaker 1: has already been obtained, and that is to focus attention

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Speaker 1: on the hypocrisy of the Northern Leberals and the n

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Speaker 1: double A CP have been league and people like that especially.

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Speaker 1: We intend to continue it until those people in the

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Speaker 1: majority tell those politicians we are through with this foolishness

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Speaker 1: about a civil rights George Singleman and Amos Guthridge speaking

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two, it's uh, it's kind of interesting

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Speaker 1: to watch history as you try to understand the current

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Speaker 1: shape of things. Although those were Americans, they were busting.

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Speaker 1: Let's bring in the panel for their take on this.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick Davis is with us along with

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Speaker 1: Jim Kessler today, co founder It's Third Way, democratic strategist

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Speaker 1: and former legislative policy director for Senator Chuck Schumer. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for being back with us, Jim and Rick. I wonder

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Speaker 1: your thoughts on the political nature of this today. As

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Speaker 1: Rhonda Santis and Greg Abbott make a name for themselves

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Speaker 1: here for better or worse. Yeah, I think it's for

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Speaker 1: better or for worse, as you say, I mean a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are gonna react to this in a

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Speaker 1: very emotional way. I mean there's a sense of fairness

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Speaker 1: Amongst American people who say, you know, you don't throw

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Speaker 1: people on a bus and ship them to a state,

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Speaker 1: don't alert their authorities and dump them out on a curb.

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Speaker 1: Their children involved in this, Uh, I can see that

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Speaker 1: becoming a campaign commercial pretty easily. Uh. I think this

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Speaker 1: is all about what you were just describing, which is

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Speaker 1: getting attention. But I think they run the risk of

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Speaker 1: looking pretty callous in the process. Listen to Rhonde's antis today.

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Speaker 1: He was at an unrelated event and answered the criticism

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Speaker 1: he was getting from Democrats a minute, even a small

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Speaker 1: fraction of what those border towns deal with every day

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Speaker 1: is brought to their front door. They all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden go berserk and they're so upset that this is happening.

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Speaker 1: And it just shows you, you know, their virtue signaling

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Speaker 1: is a fraud. Jim Kessler, is this virtue signaling from Democrats?

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Speaker 1: I think Rhond the sens has made it's I think

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Speaker 1: it's a kind of a waterloo for him. Politically on

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Speaker 1: this immigration. If you are promising people something, you put

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Speaker 1: them on a bus, you can tell them a lie.

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Speaker 1: You tell them you're going to see them, you tell

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Speaker 1: them they're going to have jobs, and it's all a lie.

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Speaker 1: You trupt into someplace that is different than when you

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Speaker 1: told them. It's because you think those people are so

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Speaker 1: human and you know who had in the previous segment.

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Speaker 1: You know what happened in nineteen two with African Americans,

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Speaker 1: and you know for other this is the thing that

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Speaker 1: they pulled through and pulled lindon other places too, when

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Speaker 1: they got them on the train. Well, I think one

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Speaker 1: of the places where you know, the Santists and others,

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Speaker 1: a really missingness is how if you're a certain ethnicity

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Speaker 1: or certain race in America, it is a reminder of

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Speaker 1: what happened to you. And the other thing I was

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Speaker 1: going to this is what happens when you were in

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Speaker 1: a canopic funt match. Jim, we're having a hard time

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Speaker 1: hearing you. I'm hoping that we can reconnect if if

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Speaker 1: if we can do that in the studio, that would

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Speaker 1: be great because I want to hear you and what

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Speaker 1: you're actually saying here, Ricord is comparisons fair, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think so. I mean we we we talk a lot

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Speaker 1: about the coyotes, you know in Mexico, who round these

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Speaker 1: people up, promise some jobs, stick them on a bus,

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Speaker 1: horrific conditions. They break the law by bringing them across

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Speaker 1: the border, and then they dump them out, and and

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Speaker 1: and there are all kinds of challenges in Texas. I

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Speaker 1: get it, um. Um. You know they're they have border

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Speaker 1: towns that are overrun. Uh, we don't have a border

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Speaker 1: policy with this administration that that that makes any sense whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: So it does create a lot of problems. But like,

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Speaker 1: you know, do you really want to be coyote ron? Right?

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, what's the difference between him and a

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Speaker 1: coyote at this stage? By putting people on bus, promising

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Speaker 1: them something else, and dumping them off in another location

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Speaker 1: with no help the differences? We're using taxpayer money to

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Speaker 1: do it, right, I mean, like that seems really stupid. So, um,

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Speaker 1: I think this is gonna play out in a way that,

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Speaker 1: uh sure it will bring attention to immigration. Maybe they

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Speaker 1: feel bad that all the discussion on abortion and inflation

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Speaker 1: hasn't included an immigration discussion. But I think this has

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Speaker 1: the potential to backfire in a pretty big way. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Listen to Karine Jehan Pierre again today at the White House.

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Speaker 1: It's not just the fact that these people were busted,

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Speaker 1: it's the way that they did it by not letting

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Speaker 1: anyone know they were coming. Well with with one exception,

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Speaker 1: listen to the Press Secretary, there's a process in place.

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Speaker 1: We have had a process in place. There's a legal

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Speaker 1: way of doing this um and for managing migrants. Republican

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Speaker 1: governors interfering in that process and using migrants as political

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Speaker 1: ponds is is shameful, is reckless, and just plain wrong.

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Speaker 1: Give us that she gives us a sense here more

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Speaker 1: about the lack of notice. The fact that the that

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Speaker 1: Fox News and not the Department of Homeland Security, the city,

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Speaker 1: or local NGOs were alerted about a plan to leave migrants,

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Speaker 1: including children, on the side of a busy d C

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Speaker 1: Street makes clear that this is just a cool, premeditated

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Speaker 1: political stunt. So Rick, they alerted Fox News and there

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Speaker 1: was a camera there on mass av when the buses

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Speaker 1: pulled up, but no one else. What does that tell you?

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Speaker 1: I think in this case, She's right, this was a

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Speaker 1: political stunt. It was made to get headlines. It's not

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Speaker 1: meant to alleviate the suffering on a border town in Texas.

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Speaker 1: It's just meant to get news. And of course the

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Speaker 1: news it's most favorable to. Uh. Abbott and de Santis

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Speaker 1: are going to be Fox, and so call Fox. Make

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Speaker 1: sure the cameras are there, and and and and let's

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Speaker 1: what what are they doing making fun of the people

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Speaker 1: who are standing on the street corner, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: and then and then uh, you know, demagoguing the fact

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Speaker 1: that people are shocked. I actually think the authorities in

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Speaker 1: both places act pretty cool. They make sure these people

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Speaker 1: have places to stay and food and and um you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe they wind up staying and getting a job. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have a shortage of personalness country. I'm not suggesting

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Speaker 1: illegal immigration is a way to solve it, but the

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Speaker 1: reality is, um uh, this is the land of opportunity

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Speaker 1: and we're certainly not acting like it. Rick Davis standby

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Speaker 1: with us, and Rick will be here for the hour,

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Speaker 1: of course, as part of our political panel. Uh as

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Speaker 1: we we have a state senator from Massachusetts on the

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Speaker 1: line who's been dealing with this all day, Julian Sear

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Speaker 1: Uh is uh gotta obviously Cape cod In in his

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Speaker 1: in his state here and specifically Martha's Vineyards. A Senator welcome.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad you could take some time. I know

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Speaker 1: it's been very busy. I just er what you have

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Speaker 1: learned about who actually put these people on airplanes and

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Speaker 1: what they were told. So, Uh, you know, we we

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Speaker 1: first and for almost have been working, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: around the clock since these planes arrived just after three

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Speaker 1: pm yesterday. Uh, you know, to to welcome these migrant families,

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Speaker 1: to treat them with data in respect, to get them

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Speaker 1: food and shelter, and and to take care of them.

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Speaker 1: And the people in Martha's Vineyard has done I've done

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Speaker 1: a tremendous job and doing that what we've learned, you know,

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Speaker 1: as these are migrants who are mostly from Venezuela. UM.

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Speaker 1: They had crossed the border recently into Texas. They were

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Speaker 1: staying in the shelter in San Antonio. UM. A woman

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Speaker 1: who went by the name of her La approached them

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Speaker 1: outside the shelter. UM and and essentially this woman lured

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Speaker 1: them into taking the plane. She must led them about

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Speaker 1: where they would be going. Uh. And she primised promised

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Speaker 1: these migrants UM that they would be sent to a

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Speaker 1: place where they can get expacited work papers. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: and and and so on. Uh. Some were told they

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Speaker 1: were going to Boston. Um, but they really didn't exactly

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Speaker 1: know certainly where they were when they landed, had never

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Speaker 1: sort of heard of Marcus Vineyard. And when they arrived, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, there was no notification to any official in

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Speaker 1: Marthus Vineyard or anyone in Massachusetts for that matter, that

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Speaker 1: I'm aware of about their arrival. They landed at at

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Speaker 1: the airport Marthus Vineyard. You know, we're a pretty small

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Speaker 1: rural place, especially a year round, right about twenty thousand

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Speaker 1: people lived here. Landed at the airport. Um, they had

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Speaker 1: a range for actually white vans uh to to take

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Speaker 1: the micro families from the airport to Martus Waniord Community Services,

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Speaker 1: a human service agency about three miles from the airport.

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Speaker 1: And they had ranged actually to have a camera crew

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Speaker 1: to film the planing. But but but really no concern

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Speaker 1: for the health and safety and well being of these

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Speaker 1: migrant families. Really this was a shameless political stunt. So

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Speaker 1: nobody gave anyone a heads up. How did you find

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Speaker 1: out about it on the news? Uh? No that this

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Speaker 1: our shareff we have a terrific shareff and Margaret's vineyard

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Speaker 1: and and he called me, you know, maybe within within

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Speaker 1: an hour or so. Uh, and we started marshalling resources

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Speaker 1: and on the ground here in Martha's vineyard and of

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Speaker 1: course you know in Massachusetts. Um, you know, but this,

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Speaker 1: this truly is a pretty uh it's a cruel route

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Speaker 1: ruse that that you know, manipulated vulnerable families who are

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Speaker 1: seeking about her life. And I'm really glad that you know,

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Speaker 1: you raised the reverse freedom rites. That's something we've been

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Speaker 1: talking about. Um. Of course considering that uh a ninety

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Speaker 1: six families you know, came to hiaen Us in the

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Speaker 1: ninet sixties. And um, you know, these these are fundamentally

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Speaker 1: racist and xenophobic tactics. They've been used before, and it's

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Speaker 1: sad to see been being used again. Well, what do

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Speaker 1: you say to Republicans who's who like Greg Abbott today

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Speaker 1: who said, you know what, this is just a taste

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Speaker 1: or I guess it was Rhonda Santis, this is just

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Speaker 1: a taste of what border towns are experiencing every day.

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Speaker 1: And I believe the line from Rhonda Santis was your

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Speaker 1: virtue to signaling is fraudulent. How would you reply. So,

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Speaker 1: so let's be clear, this isn't about um, you know,

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Speaker 1: helping border towns who are struggling with with with with

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Speaker 1: so many migrants coming over the border. This isn't about

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Speaker 1: helping the migrants families. This is about a political stun

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Speaker 1: and getting attention. If you wanted to help people, you

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Speaker 1: actually coordinate, you reach out. Government works best right when

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Speaker 1: when we're pulling together. Massachusetts, actually we've had a history

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Speaker 1: of helping helping migrants. Um. You know, a number of

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Speaker 1: years ago under Governor of all Patrick, Massachusetts welcome hundreds

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Speaker 1: of unaccompanied minors to Massachusetts. They were brought to Massachusetts

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Speaker 1: and partnership with the the federal government. That's how states like

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Speaker 1: Massachusetts an other states that are not border states, you know,

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Speaker 1: can help border states can address you know, address this crisis.

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Speaker 1: But they don't care, they don't actually care about the people. Well,

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Speaker 1: in our remaining moment here, Senator, what what can you

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Speaker 1: tell our listeners will become of these people? What what's

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Speaker 1: your plan for them? So first and foremost, just making

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Speaker 1: sure that they have shelter, um, you know, are are

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Speaker 1: are well fed, you know for the night. The current

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Speaker 1: shelter we have here in Martha's vineyard. Uh, it's a

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Speaker 1: church parish. It's it's it's quite it's quite small, use

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Speaker 1: one bathroom, it's sort of insufficient. So we're going to

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Speaker 1: be meaning a sort of larger, larger space for them.

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Speaker 1: There's been an outflouring of resources, support, coordination at all

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Speaker 1: levels of government Massachusetts. UM. So we're gonna be doing

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Speaker 1: everything we can to help them. UM. But we're very

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Speaker 1: clear eyed about about what this is, that this is

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Speaker 1: capitalizing on people who are in different difficult circumstances for

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Speaker 1: our gotcha moment a Sun, it's to stoping. Thank you

428
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: for being with us. Julian sere on the line from

429
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: Massachusetts as we try to figure out where they came

430
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: from and where they might be going. Stay with us, Sun,

431
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: sound on. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. They met

432
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: on the sidelines of the Shanghai Corporation Organization. This is

433
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: a Beijing led group sort of a counter to other

434
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: Western alliances. And there he was face to face with

435
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin. It was President. She this after getting off

436
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: the airplane with a mask and was masked almost the

437
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: whole time, walking around indoors. They finally sat down for talks,

438
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: and as I read on the terminal, remarkable Putin told

439
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: his counterpart from Beijing he understands China's questions and concerns

440
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 1: about his invasion of Ukraine, as the Chinese leader said

441
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: that two countries could inject stability and positive energy to

442
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 1: a world in chaos. So, as I asked earlier, this

443
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: embrace between she and Putin, will they hug each other

444
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 1: into isolation? And we're joined to talk about it? By

445
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 1: Thomas Pickering, former Ambassador to the United Nations, former Ambassador

446
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: to Russia, India, Israel, Nigeria, Jordan, and Al Salvador. Is

447
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: quite a career in business card ambassador, welcome back. What's

448
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: your take of having seen the readouts from both sides

449
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: of this meeting? The early read outs, Joe, are very interesting.

450
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: They first indicate that China continues not only to sit

451
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: on the fence very carefully on Russian invasion of Ukraine,

452
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: but has now in diplomatic channels, begun to express concerns

453
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: about what Russia and Putin are doing there. The first

454
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: time we've had this kind of a break in their policy.

455
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: Uh and Mr Putin took the chance to announce it himself,

456
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: I think in large measure, because he wanted to do

457
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 1: everything he could to characterize those differences as minor or

458
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: semi minor and the subject that he would correct in

459
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: his conversations with Presidency, and at the same time, I

460
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: think try to minish their importance across the board for

461
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: a relationship that began last February before the invasion, with

462
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: a kind of unlimited friendship and now has clearly begun

463
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: to show its limits. Well, okay, but when you hear

464
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 1: President she speaking as he did, what does that do

465
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: to the US China relationship? Obviously Vladimir Putin has been

466
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: written off here, but could could President Biden still meet

467
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: with him in the near term after this today? I

468
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: don't know, because both sides have had reservations about that.

469
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 1: But if someone were to ask me for my advice,

470
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: I would encourage, as I have with friends, that the

471
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: US work harder with China to eliminate some of those

472
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: obstacles that are now in the way in which both

473
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: countries could cooperate in reducing I do it quietly and carefully.

474
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: Economic obstacles or what do you mean, ambassador, Oh, the

475
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: trade problems that have come out of US trade sanctions

476
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: and so on. They're they're there, and they're they're not fictional,

477
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: and I have made them up. And at the same time,

478
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: I think it's important for the US to carry out

479
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: a relationship so that it doesn't take actions, particularly UH

480
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: stretches of actions that in one way or another, bring

481
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: China and Russia excuse me, Joe together against the United States.

482
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 1: It's important for US to take advantage of Mr. She's

483
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: doubts now about what Putin is doing and the isolation

484
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: he's put himself into, and indeed the failures that over

485
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: the last week and a half have emerged from his

486
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: military retreat from a significant part of the Ukraine as

487
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: a result of Ukrainian military action. Well, I'm going to

488
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: add another log on the fire here, Ambassador. As the

489
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and I'm sure you're read in

490
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: on this, has approved a bill. It's happening, Yes, data

491
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: boost ties with Taiwan and give more military hardware, more

492
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: weapons to deter a potential Chinese invasion. The final legislation

493
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: UH would need to overcome objections from the White House.

494
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: Nobody knows of it as the votes, but to see

495
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: this kind of deliberation happening on Capitol Hill following the

496
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 1: series of delegations, including Speaker Pelosi's to Taiwan. Our relationship

497
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 1: is certainly not improving by the day. What does this do.

498
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: I think it's time, if I can call it that,

499
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: to take a deep breath and think through these relationships.

500
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: There's no reason at all why we should not support

501
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: Taiwan under the conditions of the existing Taiwan Relations Act,

502
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: and we have over a period of time been a

503
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: provider of military equipment to Taiwan. It's not my view

504
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: right now that it's the time to load up or

505
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: increase those particular efforts, but it is time to make

506
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: it clear as we have that we're the People's Republic

507
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: of China to use force against Taiwan uh in conditions

508
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: which clearly were designed to use force to reincorporate Taiwan

509
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: back into China. Then we ought to be firm. We

510
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: also ought to be quietly firm that we do not

511
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: and can, on the basis of our One China policy

512
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: support independence for Taiwan. That's been a thirty in a

513
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: year US policy, and there's no reason to change it,

514
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: and there's no reason to shift the ground now in

515
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: my view in this development in Uzbekistan with the Putinshi

516
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: meeting is not going to totally change anybody's relationship. It's

517
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: too early to look for those kinds of shifts, but

518
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: it is something we need to keep our eye on,

519
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: and it is something we need to deal with in

520
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: my humble view, on the basis of strategic thinking and

521
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: careful wisdom. Always a fascinating conversation. Ambassador, thank you for

522
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: joining us. Thomas Pickering, former ambassador to the United Nations

523
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: and to Russia, among several other countries. I'm Joe Matthew

524
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: and Washington. This is Bloomberg sound On. As I read

525
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: on the terminal, she called Putin old friend and said

526
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: China is willing to work with Russia, display the responsibilities

527
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: of the major powers, and play a leading role to

528
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: injectability and positive energy to a world in chaos unquote.

529
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear from the panel on this.

530
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Jim Kessler are coming up next on

531
00:30:44,240 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: the Fastest Hour in Politics. This is Bloomberg. This is

532
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: Bloomberg sound On on Bloomberg Radio. So how does the

533
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 1: White House respond to this meeting today between Vladimir Putin

534
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: and President, she Putin hailed the balanced position. This is

535
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: a quote, the balanced position of our Chinese friends on

536
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: the Ukraine crisis, as he offered to explain in detail

537
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: their position on Ukraine, which, by the way, you've heard

538
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: before they say they're going to denazify the country. Let's

539
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: reassemble the panel. Rick Davis has a take on this,

540
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: I can assure you. Republican strategist Bloomberg Politics contributor, joined

541
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: today by Democratic strategist Jim Kessler, co founder of Third Way. Rick,

542
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: what's your thought here, because when I see stories like this,

543
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: I start thinking, whatever happened to the conversation about secondary sanctions? Yeah, well,

544
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: I think that's a continuing discussion, may wind up coming up,

545
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: you know, in the next session in November. You know,

546
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: in the middle of November they have the G twenty

547
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: UM and UH and so that that would certainly be

548
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: ger Main there. In this case, I think that the

549
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: US was probably listening as intently as anyone to how

550
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: uh Premier she was going to react to Vladimir Putin.

551
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: And I think you had the perfect person today to

552
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: analyze this in an Ambassador Pickering. I mean, he is

553
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: so well experienced and strategic in his thinking. Uh. And

554
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: the point he made that I think was worth pointing

555
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: out again is that Vladimir Putin actually went first and said, oh,

556
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: I know, my friends in China have some questions about

557
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: what's going on in the Ukraine, right, And so he

558
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: was able to inoculate the discussion. Now, you know, if

559
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: he's done that, then there were probably some pretty serious

560
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: discussions about concerns China has regarding their operation in the Ukraine.

561
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: So the fact that Vladimir Putin got to go first

562
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: was probably a daily cut and let me handle it.

563
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: I'll answer all the questions regarding that, and then you

564
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: can talk about what good friends we are. Is that

565
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: how you see it here, Jim? And does the White

566
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: House just stay silent on this? Well? I think this

567
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: was a really interesting meeting, and in some ways it

568
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: was a watershed meeting because this was the first time

569
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: that you saw really unequivocally that China is the big

570
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: brother in this relationship and Russia's the little brother in

571
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: this relationship. And even though if you look at sort

572
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: of economically and militarily, China has surpassed Russia and has

573
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: surpassed Russia, you know, have did a long time ago,

574
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: You've never really seen it act out that way among

575
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: the leaders in person. And that's that is really significant

576
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: to me. And that's you know, if I was the

577
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: White House, I would be looking at that as the

578
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: queue that now rush then. Now China is in the

579
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: driver's seat in this relationship. The walls are closing in

580
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: on flat a mere Putin. Rick. Yeah, I think that

581
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 1: when he has this kind of an outing, you know,

582
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: which was supposed to boost his prospects on the international

583
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: stage and you know, sort of reinforce his position as

584
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: the superpower, and the best he's got is you know, hey,

585
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: we're good buddies. Um, that really isn't very sufficient for him,

586
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: especially considering he's starting to get some heat at home.

587
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: And you know, we've talked about this a lot since

588
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: the initial invasion, and like we've discussed the fact that

589
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: the one thing that could sort of halt progress for

590
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin in the Ukraine, regardless of when he whether

591
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: he thought he was winning and losing, is political instability

592
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: at home. It's not all this international sanctions he can

593
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: bear that. He'll figure out a way around it. He's

594
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: got print friends like China who can backdoor his needs,

595
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 1: but the reality is when the politics at home turn

596
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: against him, kind of hard to retreat from that. And

597
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: that smells like where we're headed next. Rick Davis and

598
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: Jim Kessler with us on Bloomberg Sound On. As we

599
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: turn and back to what was happening today at the

600
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 1: White House in the Rose Garden, Joe Biden with some

601
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: news he was really hoping to share. So I thank

602
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 1: the unions in the row companies for negotiating good faith

603
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 1: they have up for twenty straight hours through that negotiation

604
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: and uh, and for sticking with it, especially over the

605
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: last few days. In fact, the negotiator shoot today. I

606
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: don't think they've been to bed yet. So twenty hours

607
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: of talks. They got a deal here. It's not been

608
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: ratified yet, but we're going to avoid this massive rail shutdown.

609
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: UH that could have happened tomorrow. Jim Kessler, the administration

610
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: was directly involved. They clearly see this as a win.

611
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: As any anyone can remember this in November, well you

612
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: remember it if it was a loss, Well, that's right,

613
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: So you know it's the absence of a bad thing.

614
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: And it continues a Biden winning streak that's really started

615
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: since July UM legislatively and international affairs, and with some

616
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: is like gas prices in particular. Look, I think Joe

617
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: Biden has written and trap M truk for fifty years,

618
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: so you would expect him to be able to solve

619
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: a problem with the with the rail unions. But you know,

620
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 1: and also that this is a big moment for Marty

621
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: war Walsh, the Labor Secretary, to who I think is

622
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: a rising star in this administration. What's he gonna do next? Jim, Well,

623
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: you know there's rumors. You know, look, Ron Clean is

624
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,959
Speaker 1: the chief of Staff and he's probably if he wants

625
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: to be chief of staff ll state chief of staff.

626
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: But most people don't stay after two years. And people

627
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: are talking, you know, perhaps it's Marty Walsh. Well you

628
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: heard it here on Sound on UH, producer Matt asks

629
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: the question Rick, should they have rescheduled James Taylor to today? Yes,

630
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: we were hard on them the other day for this

631
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: very much. So well, look, I mean, this is how

632
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: you get rid of a hangover, right, you have a

633
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: good day. So we talked about what a disaster the

634
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: signing of the Inflation Reduction Act was because of the

635
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: day that flash and actually went up and uh and

636
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,399
Speaker 1: so um uh it was a competency issue, right, I mean,

637
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: here we go again. One year ago they were pulling

638
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: out of Afghanistan in the most hamhanded way ever imaginable,

639
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: and here they do back flip. They have something positive

640
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: and they wreck it on the shore. So today was

641
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: a great way to sort of shrug that off and say,

642
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 1: you know what, we don't screw up every time. And

643
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: uh and so you know this is and this is big.

644
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 1: I mean we had a big run up to this.

645
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: Everybody was looking a lot of concerns about the impact

646
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 1: on the economy, and the team and the president came

647
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 1: through and and this is what you wanted to have happened,

648
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: and they deserve a right to celebrate. I want to

649
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: ask you both about if we can go back to

650
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: primary night this week, the last primary in New Hampshire

651
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: was the one we were watching closely. The headlines on

652
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 1: Wednesday morning were an election. Denier wins the primary, just

653
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: like Democrats hoped to run against Maggie Hassan for Senator.

654
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: His name is Don Baldock. We talked about him the

655
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 1: other day. Uh Rick Davis, Jim, I'll have you weigh

656
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: in on this in exchange today on Fox News. That

657
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: was noteworthy. This is someone who just a couple of

658
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: weeks ago, in the fourteenth of August, said this at

659
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 1: a primary debate that was televised. I signed a letter

660
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 1: with a hundred and twenty other generals and admirals saying

661
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,439
Speaker 1: that Trump won the election, and dammit, I stand by

662
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 1: my Okay, pretty cut and dry. Don Baldock today on

663
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: Fox News was played that cut and asked if he

664
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: still stands by this. He made it a central theme

665
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:38,399
Speaker 1: of his campaign that election was stolen and that Joe

666
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,959
Speaker 1: Biden was an illegitimate president. Here's Don Baldock just weeks later.

667
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: So you know, we uh we we uh, you know,

668
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: live and learn, right, um. And I've done a lot

669
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 1: of research on this, and I've spent the past couple

670
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: of weeks talking to grantited status all over the state

671
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 1: from uh, you know, every party, and I have come

672
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,879
Speaker 1: to the conclusion, and I want to be definitive on this.

673
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: The election was not stolen. Was there fraud? Yes? Is

674
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: that a concern of granted status all over the state? Yes,

675
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: there is. Is there a responsibility for public servants and

676
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: elected positions to ensure that our citizens have faith in

677
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: their voting system, yes, but elections have consequences, and unfortunately

678
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: President Biden is the legitimate president of this country. Wow,

679
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: now that is an evolution, Rick Davis. Are we going

680
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: to hear more so called election deniers do this between

681
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: now in November? Boying? That was a bounce, wasn't it.

682
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you it kind of sound effects. It

683
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: kind of makes my heart feel feel good to complete

684
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: flip flop. Right. If that's not an ad I wouldn't.

685
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: There's no ad maker in the world who could do

686
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 1: something better than what he's just done to himself. Well,

687
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 1: but somebody told him to say that, right, Or did

688
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: he call religion after being elected himself or something? Look there,

689
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: it's all a fraud, right, All these guys who campaign

690
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: out there to get a Republican nomination from Donald Trump,

691
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: his his Emperor mater, and then literally flipped the day

692
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: after and and and it's not just him, you know,

693
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: it's it's it's in Arizona, it's in Pennsylvania. It's I mean,

694
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: it's just startling. And so either they're complete frauds when

695
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: it comes to their desire to have Trump endorse them

696
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: so they can win the nomination or they're equally completely

697
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: complete frauds to think that they can actually get people

698
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: to forget all that stuff in a general election. We

699
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 1: used to we used to go right, ideologically right on

700
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: the issues of things like that and and what not

701
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: to uh to get a nomination, and then tacked to

702
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: the center on issues that are more you know, appealing

703
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: to independent voters. And that was a pretty acceptable strategy. This,

704
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: I don't even know what to call this. This is

705
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: not tacking to the center. This is bouncing right off

706
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: the face of the earth. So, Jim, is it up

707
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: to Democrats to remind voters of evolutions like these for

708
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: the next several weeks. Joe, I don't think you have

709
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 1: to worry about that going on that that's gonna happen.

710
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: I mean, look what happened here, and this has happened

711
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: in Arizona too. Is like, the good news is you

712
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: just won the primary. The bad news is, if you

713
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: hold this position on elections, or you hold this positions

714
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: on abortion, you're gonna lose by fifteen points. So we're

715
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: gonna need an evolution, and we're gonna need one real fast.

716
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: And let's rip the band aid off and let's do

717
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: it on favorable media to see if we can get

718
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: away with it. And you know it usually doesn't work.

719
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 1: It just usually doesn't work. And yes, Democrats will spend

720
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: eight figures per state reminding voters of where they were

721
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: and where they went. Insights from two great political professionals,

722
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: Jim Kessler, Third Way, Rick Davis, Bloomberg Politics contributor. You

723
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: won't hear conversations like this anywhere else. Incredible. We'll do

724
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: this again tomorrow. We do it every day on Bloomber

725
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 1: m