WEBVTT - Robert Margouleff 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.520 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sense Podcast. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.919 My guest today is Bob Margot. You know him, was 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:21.840 a producer of Devo Stevie Wonder. He sings, he plays. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:24.120 Bob how'd you meet Stevie Wonder? 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.159 Well, I'd like to say, just be clear, I'm not 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.880 the producer of Stevie Wonder. I'm the associate producer of 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:35.680 Stevie Wonder. Stevie gets very tense if I say co 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:40.680 producer or producer, but that's neither here nor there. How 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.400 did I meet Stevie? Stevie heard an album that my 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:49.319 friend Malcolm Cecil and I did back in nineteen seventy two, 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:54.680 I guess, and he heard it was Tonto's expanding headband 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:58.120 and it was all on electronica album that Malcolm and 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:02.280 I did together at Media Sound, and it was all 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:05.640 electronic and very off the wall, but it was at 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.759 a time when the electronica was just finding its way. 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:12.800 And I met Malcolm at the studio. He was the 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:18.920 chief of maintenance and well technology basically more than maintenance. 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.679 And I was a synthesizer bad boy at the studio 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:28.560 with my Bogue synthesizer doing sound for commercials and stuff 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.560 for the studio and I'm working at night, and we 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:36.320 hooked up together and we ended up developing a very 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:41.200 large synthesizer called Tonto the Original Neo Timberol Orchestra, and 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:43.520 it was one instrument to be played by both of 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.840 us at the same time. And we did a record 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:53.280 for Herbie Mann's label Embryo called Tonto's Expanding Headband, which 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:58.760 was my sort of peyote name, I guess. And Steve 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.560 heard it, and he also heard a lot of music 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:06.920 switched on Bach and a whole bunch of other stuff, 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:12.440 and he was very curious. And on a Memorial Day 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:16.720 weekend in nineteen seventy two, it was a weekend and 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.800 there was no traffic outside and we hear him somebody 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.920 calling up from the street. Because Malcolm's apartment was on 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.720 the second floor, it was very quiet, and we were 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.320 up there hanging out and the sky Ronnie Blanco brought 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:34.000 Steve by the studios. We look out the window down 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.360 to the front of the building and there's Steve's standing 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.720 there and Ronnie yells up, hey, we got somebody here 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:45.640 wants to hear the synthesizer. Well, he heard it, and 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.640 that was the beginning of it all. He never left 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:52.080 after that. That one weekend when the studio was closed, 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:56.080 we recorded maybe fifteen tunes. He just got going. Steve 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:01.360 got it right away. He's totally He has a mind 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.560 like a vice. I mean, you can't. I mean even 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:06.520 to this day. I was talking to him on the 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.760 phone about uh. I was talking to him about Living 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.680 for the City, that song that we recorded at Media 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.240 and I said, Steve, what do you remember about us 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:20.600 tracking that song? The first thing out of his mouth 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.040 was this is like, I don't know. Forty years later 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:28.400 it was raining. I mean, really, the guy has a 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:32.919 mind that is so detailed oriented, and so the ability 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:36.400 to memorize stuff. I guess it's because he's onsided. But 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.600 we really hit it off of those that time, and 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:45.280 I think what we were doing was very important as well. 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.800 Primarily a part of it for me was the political 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.720 aspects of what Steve was talking writing about, like Living 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.560 for the City or Mister Noah All or any of 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:02.480 these songs that were political. I'm ten years older than Steve. 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.680 I'm eighty five. Steve is seventy five. Now I can't 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:12.640 believe it, but in my high school days it was 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:15.920 way before Steve, when I was fifteen or sixteen years old. 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:20.320 It was Lyndon Johnson signing the Civil Rights Act. It 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:24.520 was the Norman Pettis Bridge. It was little black girls 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:28.279 going to school in the South being escorted by white marshalls. 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.880 It was sputnik. It was a very interesting time about 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:37.240 civil rights in general, and very important time, and I 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.120 learned a lot at that time. The reason I bring 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:42.040 it up is I learned a lot about civil rights 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.440 and I was very much a progressive lefty even in 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:49.760 nineteen fifty six. So when Steve came on the scene 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.040 and he started writing songs like Living for the City 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:59.120 and mister Noah All, I realized that we really were 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:03.480 walking the same path, maybe different roads, to the same place. 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.640 But when he started writing songs like that, I knew 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.000 that I'd found home base. And most of the songs 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.680 that I've done and music and artists that I've worked 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.480 with over the years, the ones that have a political 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:20.040 aspect to them, especially about civil rights, are ones that 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.880 I tend to gravitate towards. And nuts. We met him 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:27.600 and he said, oh, let's try recording something. We went 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:29.640 in the studio. We never left for three and a 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:34.599 half or four years. It was like a switch was thrown. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:38.239 It was magical. I thought it would go on forever. 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.840 It didn't go on forever, but nothing in life goes 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:44.760 on forever, you know. So I'm just glad I was 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:48.840 there for the time we worked together and whatever roles 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.760 we played. All I know that first album especially was 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.120 just the three of us. No, he wasn't famous enough, 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:57.880 although he'd had like ten albums, you know, R and 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:05.280 B albums. You know, he was his own person, and 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.640 we tried to reinforce the whole civil rights thing as 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.480 much as we could in every way. It was very 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:14.280 important to me, and it is still to this day 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.960 important to me, and I hope that some young musicians 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:22.279 are taking up the cause now for because through music, 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:24.800 I hope maybe we can find some piece of quiet 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.760 and some dignity and truth. It seems were very far 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:33.000 from that right now. And I know I tried to 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:37.680 carry the flag with Steve, the other black artist. During 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:39.839 that time, I was doing a lot of that kind 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:45.039 of political writing. Was more than gay, also an interesting 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.320 man to say the least. But when we were on 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:52.480 our own and Steve wasn't tethered to motown anymore. It 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:57.839 was a really huge degree of freedom and the detective 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.360 work between the three of us and the studio, and 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:05.440 it was magical. I cannot tell you, you know. I think 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.080 a lot of people even today are always trying to 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:12.200 figure out the sound of our own wheels. And I 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:15.000 don't know. I can't. Even looking back on it and 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.440 spending two and a half years writing a book about it, 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:23.960 I still don't really understand what the hell happened. It's 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:27.040 just a kind of an isness. It felt natural and 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:31.080 felt good, it felt truthful. It was magical. 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.200 Okay, so let's go back. How'd you become the mog expert? 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:40.240 Oh, that's a long story, off a short pier. I 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:45.040 was originally a filmmaker. I graduated from the US Army 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:50.920 Signal School and I was my big passion was photography, 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.880 and I became a combat photographer and I went I 0:07:55.920 --> 0:08:01.160 was stationed in Stuttgart, Germany in the seventh Corps as 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:05.160 a combat photographer, and I learned combat photography and how 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:08.400 to use cameras and everything else. And when I got 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.640 out of the service, I came back and settled in 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.520 the East Village with the idea of going into the 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:18.640 motion picture business, and in doing so, I got hooked 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.360 up with Andy Warhol's crowd. 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:25.040 Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, you come back 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:29.920 from the army. I had to meet Andy Warhol. Well. 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.160 I met a guy named Chuck Wine, who was Andy's 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:38.679 blue eyed, blonde hair genius sort of guru, who was 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:43.400 pontificating at the factory. I met him by accident at 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:48.520 a gay coffee house in the West Village on Christopher Street, 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.200 and he said, what are you doing. I said, I'm 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.600 making movies. I have a little studio uptown on forty 0:08:55.600 --> 0:09:01.000 seventh Street, and I'm making documentaries for Paramount and a 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.319 few things like that. And I was talking to Chillie Wilson, 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:07.280 who had like a couple of soft porn houses on 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:12.000 forty second Street, and all the young filmmakers were going 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.640 there because you couldn't get a job as a filmmaker 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.480 if you tried to go to a major company and say, oh, 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.560 I'm a cinematographer of this, and then they say that's 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:24.760 very nice, but are you in the union. No, I'm 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:26.560 not in the union. Well you have to be in 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.400 the union if we hire you. So then you go 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:31.720 all and you go over to the union to say, well, 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.080 we can't get you in the union because you don't 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.120 have a job. I mean, it was sort of a 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:38.880 catch twenty two. So there was a group of people 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.560 who were making movies, you know, outside the union and 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:45.280 outside the big things. One of the was Chellie Wilson. 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.319 She made like she had a couple of these super 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:54.440 soft porn you know, raincoat kind of theaters on forty 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.760 second Street, and she'd give you forty seven thousand or 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:01.200 five hundred bucks, make me, make make me a movie. 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.600 She was a Greek lady. And I was getting ready 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:06.200 to do one of those. It was going to be 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:11.560 called Stripped and Strapped, and that fell out completely when 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:15.000 I met Chuck Wine, who said, you know, we really 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:17.719 want to do something. And a lot of them were 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:21.040 really unhappy with Andy because he didn't pay anything. Everything 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.600 was for free, and it was kind of a lass, 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:27.560 a fair way of making movies with him. And it was, 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.880 you know, a clutch of beautiful models and beautiful people 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:34.240 who were upper crustaceans in New York, and it was 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.880 kind of druggy and happening, and Andy was busy being 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:41.400 trendy and stuff, and I slowly fell in with them, 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.640 and then Chuck came to me and said, I want 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.520 to make a movie, and I said, well, I want 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:48.840 to make a movie. So we said we got in together. 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:53.120 Let's make an above the first above ground underground movie. 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.200 Let's make something that can be accessible to more people 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.280 than a few people clutching around in the East village, 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.280 that we can act actually do more than Empire or 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:08.440 some of these films. And I said, yeah, let's do that. 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.480 And that turned into a film called Chow Manhattan that 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:16.080 featured the life of Edie Sedgwick. Basically what turned into 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.440 it turned into a five year opera. But in the 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.040 process of doing that, I heard the mog synthesizer to 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:22.640 answer your. 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:24.120 Quest, No, I want to I want to go back. 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:29.360 So when you're involved with Andy Child Manhattan, he's still 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:33.240 on the way up. Everybody doesn't really know who he is, 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:37.480 et cetera. And this is before the Paul Morrissey films 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:39.640 and Joe Dallasandro. 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:43.000 During during that time. Okay, so Joe Della Sandra lives 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.720 across the street from my house. By the way, he's 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:50.400 manager of the apartment building on the next block. Really, yeah, 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.800 I didn't know you knew about Joe Dallas, of course, 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:58.640 without going through all the superstars at Warholes. Paul America 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:03.040 was there, he was there, Baby Jane Holtzer was there. Andy. 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.600 I had one table at Maxis Kansas City with my 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.800 with my little troop, and Andy had the other table 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.160 in the corner under the red fluorescent light in the 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.240 other corner, and we used to google back and forth, 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.400 and Edie would come in like a princess who was 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:23.080 like royalty, all decked out with the with the hair 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.920 and all that stuff. And it was really a scene. 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:31.880 And we got started making showm Manhattan. I brought adult 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.440 adult cameras and stuff, and I actually had enough of 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:37.520 a budget to offer people a salary. 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.880 Ok okay, a couple of things. Did you interact directly 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.480 with the Andy on occasion? And what was he like? 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:46.120 We only know the public image. 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.240 It was very sort of very mild bennered guy. He 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.320 would let life happen around him. He wasn't really he 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:56.800 wasn't an instigator. He was more of a He would 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.920 have an amused kind of look, and people would want 0:12:59.920 --> 0:13:01.840 to take off their clothes in front of them. I 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.800 don't know why it was, but people wanted to expose 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.920 themselves to him and more, not just the clothes, but 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:12.719 emotionally and stuff. But he was very uh, was very 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:17.280 nonplussed about everything, very peaceful guy. I respected him, I 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.680 respected his art. But the people were working with and 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.280 never got paid. Everyone was hungry. A lot of people 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.439 were seeing doctor Roberts, doctor Max Jacobs. 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.320 Okay, you know this is a thing from the era 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.400 Doctor feel Good. Their bands called Doctor Fulgod. Tell us 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:33.440 about the original Doctor feel Good. 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:37.000 Well, the original Doctor feel Good was a guy named 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.800 doctor in real life, his nameless. He's gone now so 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:44.160 I can say something, and he's in my book Shaping 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:45.200 ste Just. 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:49.120 To be clear, Bob has a new book called Shaping Sounds, 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:54.040 Stevie Wonder Devo, the Synth Revolution and My Life behind 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.560 the Music. So you can pick that up and get 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:01.440 more detailed stories of the stories we're telling, but continue 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:02.280 where you left off. 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:10.360 So basically, Max was a doctor who was a vitamin specialist. 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.280 I guess you can put that in quotes. I think 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:18.320 most of his vitamins consisted of a methan, fhetamine, hydrochloride, 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:22.640 and vitamin B and he was poking up everybody in town. 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.960 It was rumored he was also poking up John Kennedy, 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:30.600 and he traveled with Kennedy to meet Bruzhnev in Roma, 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:34.200 Italy somewhere. Anyway, he was poking up the people in 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.520 hair and everyone. He had a very nice practice, and 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.720 he was giving out these vitamin shots. I said, it 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.640 sounds pretty good. I opened up an account. 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:43.920 I went. 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.400 I tried it once or twice, and I absolutely hated it, 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:49.520 and I never went back. But there were a bunch 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.040 of people in my tribe that were used to look 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.040 of it was fucking crazy. 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:57.840 Okay, it was public. They didn't call it Doctor feel 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:02.239 Good quite yet, but they were vitamin shots. But everybody 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:03.920 knew they weren't vitamin shots. 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.920 Right, You're exactly correct. It was really a scene, I 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:12.840 have to tell you. But what happened was to answer 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.160 your original question and not go off too far to 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.160 the life. The thing that I really wanted to do 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.040 is I wanted to put the means of production in 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:24.640 the hands of the creatives themselves, instead of having a 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.760 cameraman director of photography, like a whole bunch of people 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:32.720 with pencil protectors and white shirts and equipment people and 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.840 union and all this stuff. The equipment was getting lighter 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.360 and lighter, and smaller and smaller. And since I really 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:43.080 understood photography and everything, I said, I really want to 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:46.720 make a documentary about the lifestyle of what was going 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.240 on at that time, and I want to put the 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:55.480 creative tools, cameras and recording equipment stuff in the hands 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:59.120 of the creatives themselves to see what would happen. I mean, 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:03.640 that was a very altruistic approach, to say the least. 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:08.400 At any rate, Doctor feel Good was in there doing 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:12.040 his stuff. Maxis, Kansas City was running full blast. I 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:15.440 was moving around down in the East Village. I lived 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:19.920 around the corner from the Fillmore East one block, actually 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.680 around the corner on fifth Street. The Fillmore was between 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.640 fifth and sixth on Second Avenue. Ellen Stewart was across 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.320 the street with Lomma and the whole theater scene. Everything 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:34.320 was churning down there like crazy. It was wonderful and creative, 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:36.640 with the smell of pot smoke in the air and 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.200 people sitting on the trash cans along the street there 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.840 with the chained lids and stuff sitting there playing guitars 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:47.680 and busking, and people on the streets, and the second 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:52.920 Avenue Delhi and the Strami Sandwiches and the Ratners, and 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.200 the whole thing was like really churning the smell of 0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:00.560 pot in the air. It was an interesting time. And 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:04.280 I found myself one night in a dance club called Cerebrum, 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.439 and I heard some bleeping and blooping happening from the 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.359 sound booth and I went up there and sitting on 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.400 the floor a couple of modules from a mode synthesizer, 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:17.840 and I said to myself. The light bulb went off 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.760 in my little Jewish head, and I said, this is 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.360 the way to make the music for Chow Manhattan. And 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:26.960 at that point in time, at that point and time, 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.880 you know, at that point, was it already called Chold Manhattan. 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.520 Who was that after it was all done? No, it 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.440 was already we were already starting to call it Chow Manhattan. 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:39.239 And David Weisman, who we called Raka, who worked with 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.919 Chuck at the factory. He was also a maker of 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:47.560 a designer of the movie build the movie posters, Ferato 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.000 Premeger or people like that. He was swinging around doing 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.360 stuff and we were already making posters that said Chol 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.680 Manhattan and stuff. But I said, this is the way 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:01.240 I could really put this in the hands of myself 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:05.919 as a musician and as the people around me, and 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.360 we could actually score the movie with the tongue, with 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:14.359 the synthesizer, with the mog synthesizer. I called U Bob 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.000 mog on the phone the next couple of days. 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.720 Wait, wait, wait, Bob MOGU was from Buffalo. 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.920 Right, Oh, he was from Trumansburg, New York. Where's Trumansburg 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:30.080 toward Buffalo? But so was he still in Trumansburg? 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.480 Yes? Okay, and uh. 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.080 He hooked me up with a guy named Walter Seer, 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.920 who then went on to have a very wonderful studio 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.040 in town called Seer Sound, which is one of the 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:46.040 few tube studios. Walter was an incredible guy. He also 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:48.320 had a tuba factory. He was a very interesting guy. 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.159 And I ended up buying a Mog three off the 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:56.760 floor from the name convention that happened in the coliseum 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:58.399 when it was on Columbus Circle. 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:10.040 Okay, just to be clear, when rock bands went on 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.560 the road, they went with the mini mogue. By time 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:17.040 you had the mini mogue, you had the arms way later. 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.280 Getting my question, that's why by time you get to 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:23.399 the mini mode, you got the ARP twenty six hundred. 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.600 Before that, you have the ARP twenty five hundred. Okay, 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.040 the arps you literally had to plug the cables in. 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:35.040 When you get a mog, what are you actually getting 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.520 when you got it? Well, you would today call a. 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:42.160 Euro rack, but a giant analog version of a euro rack. 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:46.919 Separate modules all tied together with a common power supply, 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:52.199 but a where you would set the various modules in 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.600 various serial order to create sounds. 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.000 Right, so there'd be a sound generator. It's not as 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.840 simple as you sit in a keyboard in plate. You 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:03.639 had to create the sound and you would use the 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:05.120 keyboard to trigger this sound. 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:08.080 One of things to trigger the sound would be a keyboard, 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:11.480 it could be other things. The first thing that Bob 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:15.119 Mogue was really into was a therement. He was selling 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:20.520 thereman kits to everybody, and that really was a very 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.800 interesting instrument. And the reason that was of interest to 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:25.879 me is there was a band called Lothar in the 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:30.840 hand people, and Lothar was a theremin. And when Bob 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:34.560 Mogue and Walter Seer brought my synthesizer, the one I 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:38.159 bought off the floor to the studio, they brought a 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.560 someone named Tom Fly, who later became a very major 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:46.000 recording engineer at Record Plant, brought him along with his 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.160 band called Lothar in the Hand People, which I ended 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:52.480 up producing for Capitol Records. 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:53.479 They were from Denver. 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:57.959 Yes, a wonderful band, sort of a pre Devo in 0:20:58.000 --> 0:20:58.760 a lot of ways. 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:02.479 Just to be clear, wasn't that they started in the 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:06.240 summer of sixty six? Were they using the theorem in 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:07.680 before Good Vibrations? 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:13.480 Yes, and they of course Tom Fly came in and 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:18.080 Rusty and all the gang, Kim King and Tom I 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.840 don't remember everyone, but we went in and I cut 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:24.600 My first record with them was a song called Machines, 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:33.200 and we started with the theoreman I got it. And 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:35.919 also then we all started using the mode in my 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:40.160 little studio at Centaur before it was called Tonto, and 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:45.160 I made that first record with them, Lothar in the handPeople. 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:50.240 Lothar was a theremin and that was really my total 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:55.280 introduction to doing that stuff. And if you listen to 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:57.520 that song Machines, you'll hear a little bit of Whippet 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:03.119 in there. It's a strange connection, I know. Okay, Just 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:07.480 to be clear, you already had the mogue when you 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:10.600 worked with Lothar or not yet, I had the mug. 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:13.640 Lothar brought the mog to my studio. 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:14.639 Okay, that's it. 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:19.760 That's a fly from from Lothar worked for Walter Seer. 0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:23.119 He was Walter Sear's gopher and he was the one 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:25.879 who brought the thing on the handtruck and stuff to 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.840 my studio on forty seventh Street. With all the rabbis 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.280 where they're cutting diamonds in the building of the Funnies 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:35.560 Paison and the whole deal, I couldn't tell them apart 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:37.600 the hippies of the rabbis are all okay. 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:43.840 What people don't realize. In the original days of synthesizers, 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:49.840 it was very scientific. So in terms of song, you know, generator, 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:53.159 et cetera. Did you just fiddled with it until you 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:54.400 found sounds you liked? 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:58.440 Yes, because there was nothing written about how to use 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:02.880 the synthesizer and wrote the manual. Bob had some ideas, 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:06.280 but you know, Bob was a you know, electronics engineer, 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:10.440 white shirt, short sleeves, pencil protector kind of a guy, 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:14.840 very mellow, easy going, and when we're having trouble with it, 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:17.320 he'd come down from Schruminsburg and sit on the floor 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:20.480 in the studio and solder up stuff for the keyboards 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:24.000 that were drifting and not holding pitch and stuff, and 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:28.880 he would invent stuff and it wasn't Wendy Carlos. Wendy 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:33.480 was a precision guy. Steve heard Wendy's album, by the way, 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:36.159 and that also kind of tweaked him to come and 0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:39.399 work with us because switched on Bach Switched On Bach 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:43.119 a brilliant albums to this stay a brilliant album. 0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:46.680 But before we go too far down the minimog, I 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:48.520 want to go back to CHOHn Manhattan for a couple 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:51.400 of reasons. One who paid for it. 0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:54.720 Well, I had a little bit of a nest egg 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:59.199 of my own and my very wealthy not really wealthy, 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:01.840 I guess ing on the edge of being a silver 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:07.120 spoon from Great Neck. But we didn't quite make silver spoonism. 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:11.480 I was still sort of in this tainless steel silverware thing, 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.280 but just a teetering on the edge of being in 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:17.560 the silver spoon world. I was sort of in and 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:22.080 out of it. And my very wonderful, permissive parents who 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:24.600 came up with the original amount of money. 0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:30.640 Okay, so in nineteen sixties dollars over the five years 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:33.520 from beginning to completion. How much money was invested in 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:34.400 John Manhattan. 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:38.440