1
00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,120
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told you. From House top

2
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:14,120
Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

3
00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,920
Speaker 1: Caroline and I'm Kristen, and uh today we're talking about

4
00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,040
Speaker 1: a favorite topic of mine and I was preparing for

5
00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:27,240
Speaker 1: the topic of chocolate last night, Kristen by shoving chocolate

6
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 1: Easter eggs one after another into my face because every

7
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:36,240
Speaker 1: year my mother, I'm thirty, my mother makes Easter baskets.

8
00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,680
Speaker 1: She may one for Kristen as well, don't worry, but

9
00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,320
Speaker 1: I I feel like I was doing some really good,

10
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,600
Speaker 1: hard hitting chocolate research. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's important

11
00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,360
Speaker 1: to get a little meadow with things and fuel your

12
00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,080
Speaker 1: chocolate research with chocolate. I myself have also been enjoying

13
00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,400
Speaker 1: the chocolate Easter eggs your mother so generously gave to

14
00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:58,280
Speaker 1: me in my own Easter basket. I don't know the

15
00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,440
Speaker 1: last time my mom gave me an Easter basket. So

16
00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 1: if I tell her that another person's mom gave me

17
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,160
Speaker 1: an Easter basket, it might cause a little friction, Yeah,

18
00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,479
Speaker 1: a little mom friction. So I don't know if I'll

19
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,479
Speaker 1: if I'll film my mom in on that. But I'm

20
00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,319
Speaker 1: a little surprised that it's taken us this long to

21
00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,840
Speaker 1: get around to women in chocolate, because is there a

22
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:27,840
Speaker 1: more stereotypically women woman good than chocolate? Yeah, other than shoes,

23
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,240
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Yeah. I mean it's like shoes,

24
00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,920
Speaker 1: Kathy comics, chocolate. There we go, and the last two

25
00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:37,120
Speaker 1: are basically one and the same exactly. So we got

26
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,480
Speaker 1: to talk about women in chocolate because the question I

27
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,880
Speaker 1: wanted to know was what's up with the stereotype that

28
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:51,720
Speaker 1: women are just these chocolate craving monsters who, according to commercials,

29
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,080
Speaker 1: also really want to have sex with chocolate. Interesting? Yeah,

30
00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,280
Speaker 1: that I don't think that's been quite proven yet that

31
00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,720
Speaker 1: we do want to have sex with chocolate, or that

32
00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:08,480
Speaker 1: we would rather have chocolate van sex. Interesting. Yeah. I

33
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,840
Speaker 1: would like to kick this off though, with a quote

34
00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,560
Speaker 1: from Kathleen Banks Nutter, who wrote an essay on sort

35
00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,320
Speaker 1: of the history of women in chocolate in the book

36
00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:23,000
Speaker 1: Edible Ideologies Representing Food and Meaning. She wrote, what food

37
00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:28,440
Speaker 1: is more easily gendered and eroticized than chocolate. So, ladies

38
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,040
Speaker 1: and gentlemen, you're in for quite a treat with this podcast. Yeah,

39
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,080
Speaker 1: I um, you know, the based on the amount of

40
00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 1: chocolate that I crave. You know, if you were. If

41
00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,440
Speaker 1: you were to tell me in this podcast, Kristen, that's

42
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,919
Speaker 1: something in women's body is whether it's their brain or

43
00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,520
Speaker 1: their uterus, is programming them to eat more chocolate. I'd

44
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,399
Speaker 1: be kind of prone to believe you, because I feel

45
00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,560
Speaker 1: like I don't know too many dudes who are like

46
00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:59,119
Speaker 1: super into chocolate who have to have chocolate on hand. Um.

47
00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,200
Speaker 1: But I don't think that's we're going to tell you

48
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,560
Speaker 1: know because also Caroline, I'm going to go ahead and

49
00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,160
Speaker 1: put it out there. I'm more of a salty tooth

50
00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,560
Speaker 1: than a sweet tooth. If you were to offer me

51
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,639
Speaker 1: a bag of potato chips and a bag of chocolate chips,

52
00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,040
Speaker 1: I would take the potato the potato product. See, I

53
00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,639
Speaker 1: have a weird, a weird thing that I would love

54
00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,920
Speaker 1: to get rid of, which is that after every meal

55
00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,360
Speaker 1: that you know, typically include something savory, I have to

56
00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,079
Speaker 1: have something chocolate to finish it off. Either that I've

57
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:31,520
Speaker 1: got to like shove a bunch of gum into my

58
00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,520
Speaker 1: face so that I don't go after whatever's chocolate around me.

59
00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,800
Speaker 1: I've been known to like go through the office just

60
00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,240
Speaker 1: like lifting up people's bags, like do you have any

61
00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 1: I need? So well, this podcast, this is kind of

62
00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 1: especially for you, Caroline. It's yeah, it's sounding that way.

63
00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,640
Speaker 1: So let's go over just a few chocolate statistics to

64
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 1: get an idea of what we're dealing with, because the

65
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,000
Speaker 1: thing is, when it comes to women in chocolate and

66
00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,440
Speaker 1: our desires for it, it seems like a lot of

67
00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,240
Speaker 1: it is perhaps cultural, because it's a lot more popular,

68
00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,680
Speaker 1: for instance, in Europe than it is in Asia. So

69
00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:11,480
Speaker 1: if we look just in the UK, of women say

70
00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,560
Speaker 1: that they eat it regularly. But at the same time,

71
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:20,320
Speaker 1: seven percent of British men say that they fancy chocolate. Yeah,

72
00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,240
Speaker 1: so they're over there shoving cadberry stuff into their face.

73
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,800
Speaker 1: But it's not it's not a massive gender gap. Now

74
00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,599
Speaker 1: maybe maybe women. Could it be that women are just

75
00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,080
Speaker 1: made out to be crazy for chocolate more so than men,

76
00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,920
Speaker 1: we'll find out, Caroline. Um. But over in Germany they're

77
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,279
Speaker 1: the ones eating the most chocolate, And can I blame

78
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 1: them when they have things like kinder eggs? Kind Sally,

79
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,160
Speaker 1: you know, speaking of my mother. Sally is a flight attendant.

80
00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:50,800
Speaker 1: She flies to Germany. She smuggles back kinder eggs for

81
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:52,800
Speaker 1: me and has ever since I was little kids, So

82
00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,360
Speaker 1: I have all those little toys that you put together

83
00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,440
Speaker 1: that are a severe choking hazard. Basically, your mom gives

84
00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,119
Speaker 1: you the best candies, Caroline, my mom is the Easter Bunny. Yeah.

85
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,320
Speaker 1: But moving away from Eastern looking, just at Valentine's Day,

86
00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:11,640
Speaker 1: Americans purchased more than sixty million pounds of chocolate for

87
00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:16,080
Speaker 1: February fourteenth alone, and more than sevent of that chocolate

88
00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,160
Speaker 1: will be given by men to women. So with that,

89
00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,000
Speaker 1: you're starting to see what we'll talk about a lot

90
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:26,719
Speaker 1: more in terms of this gendered economy of chocolate buying

91
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:31,599
Speaker 1: and bestowing. And as far as cravings go, like the

92
00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,719
Speaker 1: cravings I have on like a ten minute by ten

93
00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,680
Speaker 1: minute basis throughout the day, women tend to report craving

94
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,159
Speaker 1: chocolate more than men do. But again this is mainly

95
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,360
Speaker 1: focused on Western women. All those studies like the one

96
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 1: that Kristen sided earlier about showing that there was such

97
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,599
Speaker 1: a small gender gap between men and women in the

98
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 1: UK eating chocolate, most surveys do show that there is

99
00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,080
Speaker 1: a negligible gender difference, but there is a difference in

100
00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,640
Speaker 1: the guilt we feel. Women report more post chocolate guilt

101
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,960
Speaker 1: after eating it compared to men, which I also kind

102
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,680
Speaker 1: of would own up to like, after I shove a

103
00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,800
Speaker 1: bunch of well, okay, maybe way after I shove a

104
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,400
Speaker 1: bunch of chocolate, Once the glow has faded, after I've

105
00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,440
Speaker 1: shoved a whole bunch of sugary chocolate in my face,

106
00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,680
Speaker 1: then I'm like, maybe I shouldn't have done that. Maybe

107
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,760
Speaker 1: it's just you coming down from a sugar high. Yeah,

108
00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,640
Speaker 1: and I start like twitching and itching. Oh no. But

109
00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,279
Speaker 1: speaking of those chocolate cravings, just one more aside on that.

110
00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,680
Speaker 1: Looking at the Western women's chocolate cravings, you'll see a

111
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:37,159
Speaker 1: lot of reports that chocolate is the most widely craved food.

112
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:43,279
Speaker 1: But again, if you that's probably focused on Westerners, because

113
00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,279
Speaker 1: if you look at a place like Egypt, for instance,

114
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,640
Speaker 1: there was a study finding that women and men both

115
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,960
Speaker 1: preferred savory and had more savory cravings because it was

116
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,120
Speaker 1: more related to their local cuisine, right, And and kind

117
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,000
Speaker 1: of along those same lines, I mean, I would argue

118
00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,760
Speaker 1: you know that that, I mean that makes sense that, uh,

119
00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,839
Speaker 1: based on what you typically eat, you're going to crave

120
00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,560
Speaker 1: certain things. And you know, I've noticed the more I

121
00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,120
Speaker 1: eat chocolate, the more I crave it, and the less

122
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,160
Speaker 1: I eat chocolate, the less I crave it. Yeah, and

123
00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:15,240
Speaker 1: the more I eat potatoes, the more potato chips just raw, Chris,

124
00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,680
Speaker 1: It's so weird. She has this whole drawer full of

125
00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,800
Speaker 1: potatoes and she's rip one out like an apple and

126
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:25,760
Speaker 1: bite into it. My podcasting secret car bloating, constant car bloating. Um.

127
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,040
Speaker 1: But before we get into where this women and chocolate

128
00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,120
Speaker 1: connection really comes from, let's go back in time and

129
00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,200
Speaker 1: see where chocolate comes from. Because within the history of chocolate,

130
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 1: we start to see how it becomes more gendered as

131
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:46,720
Speaker 1: it moves from its origin in Mesoamerica to Europe. Right. Yeah,

132
00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,080
Speaker 1: they actually found they I mean, you know, the people

133
00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,760
Speaker 1: who look for these things, chocolate pirates. Chocolate pirates actually

134
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:58,560
Speaker 1: found cacao residue in pottery in Honduras that dates back

135
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,600
Speaker 1: as far as fourteen hundred BC. And just side note, um,

136
00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,200
Speaker 1: in case you're wondering throughout this podcast, anytime we say kacao,

137
00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,520
Speaker 1: I'm just going to think of the Portlandia sketch where

138
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:13,600
Speaker 1: cacao is the safe word. But anyway, so, yeah, it

139
00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,920
Speaker 1: dates back a long time in Mesoamerica and the Mayans

140
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,480
Speaker 1: were drinking it by three a d. And when the Aztecs,

141
00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,320
Speaker 1: you know, like they did conquered the Mayans, they started

142
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,120
Speaker 1: taking up the drinking of chocolate as well, and not

143
00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,720
Speaker 1: only did they drink it, as tech, supposedly ate it

144
00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:36,120
Speaker 1: off each other's bodies during sex. They considered The word

145
00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,720
Speaker 1: for chocolate in their language is something along the lines

146
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,600
Speaker 1: of like choco lattle. It's there's a lot of consonants

147
00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,720
Speaker 1: next to each other, but that basically translates to a

148
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,520
Speaker 1: holy fetish. That's how much they liked it. That's so

149
00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:52,600
Speaker 1: cosmo of them. Yeah, I can just I'm picturing like

150
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,600
Speaker 1: an ancient as tech cosmopolitan. Hey, as tech ladies, you

151
00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,800
Speaker 1: wanna you wanna get your man going, get some chocol

152
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,800
Speaker 1: you want to avoid getting sacrificed this month, it's so

153
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,760
Speaker 1: chocolate during sex. So then in fifteen nineteen we have

154
00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,920
Speaker 1: Spanish explorer Hernando Cortez being exposed to this magical sexy

155
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,880
Speaker 1: chocolate for the first time in the court of Montezuma

156
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:20,440
Speaker 1: the second and then by five we have chocolate being

157
00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:25,760
Speaker 1: shipped to Europe along with these ideas of its connections

158
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,319
Speaker 1: to sex, and very quickly from that it's connection to women.

159
00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,960
Speaker 1: By the sixteenth century, you have chocolate in Europe being

160
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:41,040
Speaker 1: conceptualized as an aphrodisiac. Right, and one Spanish physician, Antonio

161
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,760
Speaker 1: Culminero de Laedisma, I'm sure I said that wrong, wrote

162
00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,600
Speaker 1: in the seventeenth century that chocolate vehemently incites to venus

163
00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,840
Speaker 1: and causes conception in women, hastens and facilitates their delivery.

164
00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,520
Speaker 1: And I just have to that I I say, oh,

165
00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,200
Speaker 1: is that how babies are? Right? Yeah, if chocolate cause

166
00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,679
Speaker 1: of conception in women, thank god, I'm on birth control. Um.

167
00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, in Europe, it's it's interesting to see that, Um,

168
00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,120
Speaker 1: they took this, this this treat or this beverage or

169
00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,240
Speaker 1: this sexy time making item and they ended up sweetening

170
00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,040
Speaker 1: it to make it taste better. Because back when there

171
00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,040
Speaker 1: were all these Spanish explorers in Mesoamerica hanging out with

172
00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,200
Speaker 1: the Aztecs, one of them described it as a bitter

173
00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,839
Speaker 1: drink for pigs. But then when it's transported over to

174
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:29,960
Speaker 1: Europe and it's sweetened, that's when it starts to become

175
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,480
Speaker 1: kind of a luxury item. Yeah, it's important to remember

176
00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,679
Speaker 1: that chocolate way way back in the day is not

177
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,040
Speaker 1: like the chocolate Easter eggs that you might be eating.

178
00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,520
Speaker 1: It's super sweet and smooth. It was a pretty intense

179
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,960
Speaker 1: food that was often Yeah, I was often drunk. And

180
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,959
Speaker 1: Casanova also side notes, supposedly ate it to aid his virility.

181
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:54,200
Speaker 1: It was like yield viagra. Or maybe he just kept

182
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,360
Speaker 1: it on hand for all this chocolate loving ladies that

183
00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,200
Speaker 1: stopped by. Yeah, he just had like a witness sampler

184
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,679
Speaker 1: that he could slide. Maybe that was his secret. And

185
00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,959
Speaker 1: so when it comes though to the gendering of chocolate,

186
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,600
Speaker 1: this happens pretty soon after it's imported to Europe. According

187
00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,400
Speaker 1: to more Rosen Bloom, for instance, who wrote a book

188
00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,840
Speaker 1: all about the history of chocolate. He says that once

189
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,360
Speaker 1: chocolate arrived in Spain pretty quickly you have men drinking

190
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,680
Speaker 1: coffee and stronger stuff and women drinking the chocolate. And

191
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,480
Speaker 1: this was something too that reminded me of our research

192
00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:32,120
Speaker 1: for our episode on gender and coffee. Was how with

193
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,960
Speaker 1: the old coffee houses in England it was mostly men

194
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,560
Speaker 1: and the women were at home drinking chocolate, right or

195
00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,520
Speaker 1: how even now if you walk into a Starbucks, you know,

196
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,000
Speaker 1: hearing from all of our listeners who work at coffee

197
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,200
Speaker 1: shops saying that, oh, the men walk in and they

198
00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,959
Speaker 1: order espresso or black coffee and the women are ordering mochas.

199
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,400
Speaker 1: Exactly interesting. Well, not only was it a gender drink,

200
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,640
Speaker 1: but it was also sort of an elitist thing too.

201
00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,400
Speaker 1: When it made its way to Europe from the New World,

202
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,640
Speaker 1: it was pretty much solely reserved for the nobility of Spain, Italy,

203
00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,960
Speaker 1: and France. It basically became a luxury where dainty ladies

204
00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,040
Speaker 1: enjoyed it, and they transformed the enjoyment of chocolate into

205
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,080
Speaker 1: a highly refined social event. And this is coming from

206
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,400
Speaker 1: Jamal Fahim's thesis Beyond Craving, and he points out that

207
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,360
Speaker 1: this is sort of the beginning of chocolate as a

208
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:25,679
Speaker 1: fetish that communicates social status and upper class femininity, and

209
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,480
Speaker 1: that upper class femininity is going to continue to broaden

210
00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,960
Speaker 1: its reach within the growing chocolate industry. As you see

211
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,480
Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds, how chocolate is transformed from this

212
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,920
Speaker 1: grittier drink into the type of chocolate that we think

213
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,760
Speaker 1: of today. That's a smooth bar that's really sweet. It's

214
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,280
Speaker 1: a very tantalizing for our senses. And this happens through

215
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:54,120
Speaker 1: a number of innovations, starting in eighty eight with a

216
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:59,400
Speaker 1: Dutch entrepreneur named Conrad Johannes van Houghton who figures out

217
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:04,880
Speaker 1: how to press those cocao safe word cacao beans to

218
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,440
Speaker 1: separate the dry cocoa from cocoa butter that makes chocolate

219
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:15,560
Speaker 1: less bitter and smooth. And by eighteen fifty we have

220
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,520
Speaker 1: englishmen Joseph Fry mixing sugar with cocoa butter and making

221
00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 1: the first solid chocolate bar. So he's like Joseph Frys,

222
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,559
Speaker 1: like the patron saint of of all that is good

223
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,599
Speaker 1: and happy in this world. For me, I guess I

224
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,600
Speaker 1: should wear like a necklace with his picture on it.

225
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:36,120
Speaker 1: Um More developments come in eighteen seventy nine when Rodolf

226
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,960
Speaker 1: Lint of you know Lint Chocolate, invented conking, a process

227
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,079
Speaker 1: that also smoothed chocolate, and he actually used a machine

228
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:49,480
Speaker 1: that looks like a conk shell, hence Cleverland. Uh So,

229
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,560
Speaker 1: because of all these innovations, by the early nineteen hundreds

230
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,600
Speaker 1: you have guys like Henry Nestley or would that be

231
00:13:55,720 --> 00:14:01,160
Speaker 1: Onree Nestle, Milton Hershey and others who are in the

232
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,040
Speaker 1: chocolate game. And so all of a sudden you have

233
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,760
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the twentieth century this growing chocolate business.

234
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:08,880
Speaker 1: And what's interesting too, as we were talking about the

235
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,959
Speaker 1: gender of it, if you look at the manufacturing of chocolate,

236
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 1: all those chocolate bars that were eating a lot of times,

237
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:21,960
Speaker 1: especially in the earlier twentieth century, it becomes gradually feminized

238
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,440
Speaker 1: as well. You have more and more women working in

239
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,120
Speaker 1: these factories. So not only are women becoming the target

240
00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,080
Speaker 1: consumers of chocolate, they're also often the ones on the

241
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,280
Speaker 1: factory floors making the chocolates. So every day it was

242
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,200
Speaker 1: like Lucy and Ethel, you're working the chocolate. Okay, great,

243
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,040
Speaker 1: I'll just keep that image in my head as well

244
00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,120
Speaker 1: as the Portland a sketch, so my brain is is

245
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,840
Speaker 1: at capacity. There is a darker side, of course, um

246
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,120
Speaker 1: to chocolate making, and this is something that still goes

247
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 1: on today in some parts of the world where they

248
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,600
Speaker 1: grow cow trees and make chocolate, and that is the

249
00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,640
Speaker 1: fact that there are child labor issues that that we

250
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,080
Speaker 1: rugle with as well as environmental issues like rainforest being stripped,

251
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,520
Speaker 1: the soil being stripped of nutrients by planting these trees

252
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,920
Speaker 1: over and over again. So that has actually driven some

253
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,800
Speaker 1: companies to you know, get into the fair trade thing,

254
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:20,640
Speaker 1: make sure that they're having positive sources for their beings basically. Yeah,

255
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,360
Speaker 1: and and those those sourcing issues are as relevant to

256
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,400
Speaker 1: chocolate as they are to our conversation on coffee. But

257
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,240
Speaker 1: we're not going to focus so much on the manufacturing

258
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:35,120
Speaker 1: side of it, but rather the advertising of chocolate, because

259
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:41,400
Speaker 1: you can actually trace women's history in the twentieth century

260
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 1: in the United States through chocolate ads. Essentially, just by

261
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:51,200
Speaker 1: the way that chocolate is framed really shows women's level

262
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:57,040
Speaker 1: of social mobility and their relationship to men. It's fascinating. Yeah,

263
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,400
Speaker 1: it's fascinating because this is coming. You know, this starts

264
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,280
Speaker 1: after the Industrial Revolution, when you've got guys like Milton

265
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 1: Hershey making a cheaper, more available chocolate bar. I guess

266
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,160
Speaker 1: he's like the Henry Ford of candy, uh, making it

267
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,600
Speaker 1: more available to people. And so once it is more

268
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,160
Speaker 1: readily available, you have to sell it. You have to

269
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,880
Speaker 1: make people aware that it is not something for just

270
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,520
Speaker 1: uppercrust elite ladies, that it's for everyone. Yeah, and we

271
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:27,440
Speaker 1: already have these longstanding connotations of chocolate with sex and

272
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:33,920
Speaker 1: romance and luxury, and so what better thing to sell

273
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 1: to dainty ladies. But in the Victorian era, depictions of

274
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 1: women gorging on chocolate in the same way that we

275
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,560
Speaker 1: think of today of like, you know, just chocolate crazed

276
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,280
Speaker 1: women that would not have been kosher. That would have

277
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,400
Speaker 1: totally violated the female norms of the time, because this

278
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,920
Speaker 1: was at the time too when women would not have

279
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,160
Speaker 1: been you would not want to be seen, like eating

280
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:57,960
Speaker 1: a lot of food like all you can eat buffets

281
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,920
Speaker 1: not okay for the Torrian women to indulge in. So

282
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,320
Speaker 1: they were supposed to eat more like ladies. So a

283
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,639
Speaker 1: lot of times if you see Victorian ads for chocolate,

284
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,240
Speaker 1: the women aren't necessarily eating the chocolate in the ads,

285
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,200
Speaker 1: but maybe holding it close to their mouths just sort

286
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,160
Speaker 1: of tantalizing. If you want to find a good way

287
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,200
Speaker 1: to get me to gorge on chocolate, it's to make

288
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,360
Speaker 1: me hold it away from my face for too long

289
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,080
Speaker 1: before I eat it, and then it's just like cookie monster,

290
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,199
Speaker 1: it's just over. But yeah, you couldn't with these, with

291
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 1: these proper Victorian ladies, you couldn't show them over indulging.

292
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,600
Speaker 1: You couldn't have them exhibiting any type of desire because again,

293
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,520
Speaker 1: chocolate being kind of an aphrodisiac, considered to be an

294
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,199
Speaker 1: aphrodisiac tied in with wooing people and whatnot. If a

295
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,639
Speaker 1: woman is shown to not only gorge on it, but

296
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,120
Speaker 1: really want it and desire it, then it's getting hot

297
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 1: up in those Victorian homes. Yeah. But when you move

298
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,120
Speaker 1: into the progressive air, out of the Victorian era, into

299
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,240
Speaker 1: the progressive air, you have the rise of the new woman.

300
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,919
Speaker 1: You have the suffrage movement taking place. You have women

301
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 1: having a little bit more social mobility. They might be

302
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,879
Speaker 1: driving cars every now and then. Yeah, and and the

303
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 1: whole rituals of dating outside the home are starting to

304
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 1: take shape. And so chocolate advertisers are thinking, Okay, how

305
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:22,040
Speaker 1: are we going to advertise to this new woman. How

306
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,359
Speaker 1: are we going to frame chocolate as something that she

307
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 1: needs in her life? Oh, dating, gentleman callers, what better

308
00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 1: gift for this new woman than a box o chockole lots? Right.

309
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,760
Speaker 1: It's kind of like when we talked about diamonds. How

310
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,879
Speaker 1: diamond advertising put it in men's heads that you're not

311
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,720
Speaker 1: a good husband, fiance, boyfriend, et cetera. If you don't

312
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,399
Speaker 1: present a diamond, and then that leads the woman to

313
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 1: expect it and think, oh, well, you're not a good

314
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,880
Speaker 1: fiance if you didn't give me a diamond. It's kind

315
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,000
Speaker 1: of the same thing in in this you know, smaller scale,

316
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,400
Speaker 1: less expensive, but it's kind of the same thing with chocolate.

317
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, well, he must not really like me. Yeah, exactly.

318
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:03,880
Speaker 1: And it's because they're hurting female consumers but ultimately courting

319
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 1: men to buy the chocolate, saying it what better gift

320
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,160
Speaker 1: for gal than a box of Chocolate's Johnny, Yeah, and

321
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,679
Speaker 1: there is um yes. And they were addressing Johnny in

322
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 1: a whitman's ad that gave me pause when I read

323
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:24,560
Speaker 1: the copy for it, because it sounds so opposite of

324
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 1: the whole idea of of keeping chocolate in the Victorian

325
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,560
Speaker 1: area era away from sounding to um sensual. So in

326
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,919
Speaker 1: this ad they said, a visit to Pleasure Island is

327
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,119
Speaker 1: best when made by a man and a maid, and

328
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,679
Speaker 1: together they enjoy the plunder from this wonderful chest of chocolates.

329
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,920
Speaker 1: Now tell me that's not one big euphemism, right, Oh yeah,

330
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,200
Speaker 1: chocolate as are all euphemism. I mean, even in the

331
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,320
Speaker 1: Victorian era. As you get creep closer and closer to

332
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 1: the twentieth century, you see how chocolate is still it's

333
00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 1: still sort of symbolizing the physical concer omption that may

334
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,160
Speaker 1: ensue after you know, proper marriage and whatnot. Right, Yeah,

335
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 1: I can't believe they were giving chocolate to women when

336
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,239
Speaker 1: they were just dating. Well, in the nineteen twenties, you

337
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,959
Speaker 1: even have companies like Romance Chocolates just going ahead and

338
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,359
Speaker 1: putting it friends center, Like, hey, Romance Chocolates, what else

339
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 1: are you going to get for a for a date

340
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 1: than these? Right? But so in the nineteen twenties, as

341
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 1: you know, women are wearing shorter clothes, tighter clothes. They've

342
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 1: they've shed the bustle and the corset. Lucky Strike begins

343
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 1: advising women to reach for a cigarette instead of chocolate

344
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 1: to keep that figure slim to fit into all of

345
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,160
Speaker 1: your new garments. Yeah. This is around the time too

346
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,480
Speaker 1: when you start seeing alongside the suffrage movement you also

347
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:54,399
Speaker 1: see the first big wave of a dieting push for women.

348
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 1: And to me this was really significant because I feel

349
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 1: like today, even with all this over chocolate advertising, there's

350
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 1: always still that underpinning of guilt, and we're never like advertisers,

351
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 1: never let us forget that we have female figures that

352
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 1: you know, we're supposed to keep in shape, and so

353
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 1: in the late when this lucky strike ad comes out,

354
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,159
Speaker 1: you have women having the right to vote, more freedom

355
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,679
Speaker 1: theoretically than ever before. But also too, this is a

356
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 1: time when you're also seeing the first kind of dieting

357
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 1: push for women as well. There's always this balance between like, ladies,

358
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 1: go ahead and indulge but not too much, feel bad

359
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 1: about yourselves, but enjoy yourself, but then feel bad about yourself. Yeah,

360
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,919
Speaker 1: it's a terrible yo yo effect. And I mean it

361
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: is interesting to think about how like every time women

362
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 1: are on the verge of getting more power in society

363
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: and they're outside of the home, all of a sudden

364
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,400
Speaker 1: people are like, yeah, but you should probably be thinner

365
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: and and remember not to eat too much. Well, that's

366
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 1: the thing I think. Naomi Wolf points this out in

367
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: The Beauty Myth, which now is such an old text

368
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: but still Uh. The point I think is uh sort

369
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 1: of time immemorial, because she talked about how any time,

370
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: like you said, women are experiencing the most liberation, you

371
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: have the most sort of reactionary um messages regarding our

372
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: bodies of like of dieting, of exercise. So moving from

373
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: the twenties Zoe into World War Two, chocolate becomes advertised

374
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 1: as almost a sexual surrogate for absent soldiers, which I

375
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: found so fascinating. There was a Whitman ad, for instance,

376
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: depicting a woman wistfully staring at a soldier's photo while

377
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: holding a chocolate. So it's basically like, ladies, you know,

378
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: old Johnny, Old Johnny's off fighting the Nazis, So while

379
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 1: you're home, stay faithful and eat some chocolate to tie

380
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: you over. Yeah. Yeah, the joy you get from chocolate

381
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 1: is almost like having sex with a loved one, which

382
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: is still the same kind of advertising we see today

383
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: of like lone woman, always with a background of billowing silk,

384
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: like I don't need anything but this chocolate. Yeah, my

385
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,919
Speaker 1: hair would just be all over the place. But moving

386
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: into the nineteen sixties and seventies, you know, Chris and

387
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 1: I were just talking about um, that whole control, that

388
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: body control of like okay, well, more women are in

389
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: positions of power, they're they're taking power for themselves. We

390
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: have the second wave feminist movement, but we also, alongside

391
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,080
Speaker 1: that at the same time have this whole concern about

392
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 1: health and fitness and how do we advertise sweet treats

393
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: to health conscious feminists of this era. Yeah, so this

394
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: is when you start to see the entrance of and

395
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: I hope this is not offensive to anyone's ear, but

396
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: let's face it, their master a tory chocolate ads. Basically, instead,

397
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: you could replace a chocolate bond bond with a vibrator

398
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: in a woman's hands and a lot of these ads

399
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: and it would be the exact same thing. You wouldn't

400
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: even have to changed the copy. And you also see

401
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: the reentry to of chocolate being seen as this aphrodisiac.

402
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: For instance, this I gotta kick out of this. In

403
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, High Times, the weed culture magazine that

404
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: we mentioned in our Women in Weed episode, I had

405
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,439
Speaker 1: a cover story on chocolate as an aphrodisiac because you

406
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: have the flow chart of smoking pot plus munchies equals chocolate,

407
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: which then may or may not lead to groovy sex, intimacy,

408
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: true intimacy. And so here's the return of chocolate being

409
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: considered an aphrodisiac. But in the nineteen eighties you also

410
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: have the return of it being considered a status symbols

411
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 1: going all the way back to sixteenth century Spain, when

412
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 1: it was considered only for the elite. So in the

413
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: era of Gordon Gecko and Greta's Good, you don't just

414
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: want to get your special girl a drug store brand.

415
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: You don't just want to go and get Whitman's. You

416
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: have to get some like crazy boxed chocolate that's a

417
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: million dollars to show that you can afford it and

418
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: that she's worth it. Yeah, in the nineteen eighties you

419
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: see a sixty percent rise in dark chocolate sales. This

420
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: is when you start, you know, hearing more about like, oh,

421
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: dark chocolate, that's the good stuff. And this is too,

422
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: a trend that seems to have continued today as you

423
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: see more and more not only specialty brands of chocolate,

424
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: but just the hyper specialization of dark chocolate. Two, as

425
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: we're being told like, okay, yeah, no, it's actually good

426
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: for you. So it's a little more okay to eat

427
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: dark chocolate. But then you go to Whole Foods and

428
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: you find these organic chocolate bars and it's like chocolate

429
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: and bacon, or chocolate and Serrano chilis or something, all

430
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: these kinds of exotic flavor combos, and they are crazy expensive. Yeah.

431
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: I I almost hate to admit this because it makes

432
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: me sound like a really big idiot. But when I

433
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: was Christmas shopping back in December. Uh, I was going

434
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 1: through this store and I was getting my niece and

435
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: nephew mostly candy for their stocking. It was neat candy.

436
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it was like kind of fancy, because you know,

437
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: they don't like anything that I get them, so I'm

438
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: just like, I'll just get them candy. Ha ha. My

439
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: brother will have to deal with it. Well. So anyway,

440
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: I grabbed this like three pack of chocolate bars because

441
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: I'm like, how I didn't even I literally didn't even

442
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: have the thought of how expensive could chocolate be? Because

443
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: why would I? Chocolate is not that expensive? Right? Thirty dollars?

444
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: Thirty dollars. I know, I'm the biggest idiot. Why did

445
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: I not check that ahead of time? But I didn't

446
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: even think too. It's because it was from like this.

447
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,679
Speaker 1: It was all dark chocolate, different types of it, and

448
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: it was from like this teeny tiny, like artisan chocolate

449
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: place in San Francisco. And I just the regret. I

450
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever felt deeper regret for anything in

451
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 1: my life. And then did you sad eat the chocolate?

452
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: I couldn't. I gave it to my boyfriend. I was like,

453
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: I can't even like look at this. You just take it,

454
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: consider it part of your Christmas present. Talk about chocolate

455
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: guilt seriously, but no, I mean I think that the

456
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: dark chocolate thing does kind of point to or highlight

457
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: interesting aspects of the whole chocolate guilt conversation, because like,

458
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: we're supposed to feel guilty, or we do feel guilty

459
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: after we eat too many sweets, but then dark chocolate,

460
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: like celebrities and magazines are preaching to us that like,

461
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: if you eat dark chocolate, it has antioxidants and so

462
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: you will never get cancer. But you're only allowed to

463
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: have a square a day, maybe a square every other day. Well,

464
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: and then how many celebrity interviews with you know, beautiful,

465
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: very thin, fit women who say, oh, my weakness is chocolate.

466
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it's always all these conflicting messages. There's one

467
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: thing that Katherine Nutter points out about chocolate ads today

468
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: is that the models in these ads clearly don't indulge in,

469
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: you know, chocolate fests. On the regular chocolate fest, my

470
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: mouth just started watering. I think I need to start

471
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: that or maybe never never alburn it down. So from

472
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties, where we see all of that fancy

473
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: chocolate rising to the two thousands, we see this whole

474
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: self empowerment message come about, one of which came from

475
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: Godiva in two thousand four with their tagline every woman

476
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: is one part Diva, much to the dismay of every man.

477
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: And I have no idea side note what that means.

478
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: I don't get that the whole just also side note

479
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: to anyone in marketing listening. If you call me a diva,

480
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna want your product. Yeah, I don't get that.

481
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: Who like who? Who thinks that women want to be

482
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: want to be diva's? I don't know. I'm sure there

483
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: are probably some women listening thinking that that's fun, but

484
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just think it's so hokey. I

485
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: think it is hokey. And I think when you have

486
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,959
Speaker 1: people like I'm just trying to think of an example,

487
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: somebody like Mariah Carrier, you know, somebody who's like a

488
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: stereotypically high demand, high maintenance celebrity calling themselves a diva.

489
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: That makes me want to call myself that even less so.

490
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: But then you're telling me that I am one if

491
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: I eat your chocolate and Godiva, which really is like

492
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: the gray Goose vodka of candy, like Chocolate Burn, old

493
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: chocolate Burn, because you know, you take something that's really

494
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: kind of basic and just mark up the price. Just

495
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: putting a fancy ribbon or some you know, geese on

496
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: it doesn't actually make it worth the price. Yeah, there

497
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: was an article, I forget which one it was, that

498
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: we read talking about how some chocolate experts, like Small

499
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: Gaze of Chocolate essentially tried Godiva and they did not

500
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: give it very high mark. Now what did they say,

501
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: like a box of sugar had been poured into candlewax

502
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: or some something like that, or that it was very chalky.

503
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: Just weren't big fans. But I do think it's it's

504
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: interesting how there's now that self empowerment aspect. It's like

505
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: the men have sort of been removed from these chocolate ads.

506
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: So instead of the old dynamic of wooing men into

507
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: buying chocolate to give to women, it's now Dove, for instance,

508
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: telling us, oh, ladies, treat yourself, you go buy chocolate

509
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: for yourself. Stay at home. It's just stay at home

510
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: and read the inspirational messages that on the inside of

511
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: dove rappers, right, and and give yourself a gentle, you know, hug,

512
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: and then go eat some yogurt. But can we talk

513
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: a bit more about this guilt issue with chocolate, because

514
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: this isn't something that came up in any of the papers,

515
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: but what it sounded an awful lot like the more

516
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: we read about how chocolate is, you know, basically is

517
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: sold to women as sex. It's the one acceptable sexy

518
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: vice that women can have, according to society, and yet

519
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: there's that guilt undergirding it of like if you eat

520
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: too much of it, then boys aren't gonna like you

521
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: because you'll have a chocolate belly. It's so weirdly slut shamy.

522
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: It's like it's like a candy analog to slut shaming,

523
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: where it's like, well, ladies, if you do too much

524
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: of that, then boys aren't gonna like you. Am I

525
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: am I making too big of a leap? No, I

526
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: think it's absolutely parallel. I think there are some very

527
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: weird and they always have been apparently, some very weird

528
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: things going on with the way we look at chocolate

529
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: and think about chocolate. And you know, we have the

530
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: Aztecs in the Spanish to think, but um, we'll actually

531
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: get into some more ickiness behind chocolate advertising when we

532
00:31:51,240 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: come back from a quick break. When we left off,

533
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 1: we had gone through the history of women in chocolate

534
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: and advertising. But one thing that we didn't mention as

535
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: we were going through that twentieth century timeline was that

536
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: really the main target of chocolate ads, especially in the

537
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: first half of the twentieth century, were exclusively white women.

538
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: And there are some issues of race and racism and

539
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 1: chocolate that we would be remiss to not address as well,

540
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: because you see, for instance, racial anxieties surrounding chocolate going

541
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: all the way back to when it was first brought

542
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: from the New World to Europe. Right there was this

543
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: uh story that mort rosen Bloom, who we saided earlier,

544
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: the author of Chocolate A Bittersweet Saga of Dark and Light, Uh,

545
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: talks about in his book about a woman by the

546
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: name of Madame de Saveny writing to her daughter warning

547
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: her against drinking too much chocolate because she knew of

548
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: an another woman who drank it and her child came

549
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: out black as the devil. Yikes, yikes, indeed, okay, well,

550
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: and and there are all these chocolate anxieties to probably

551
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: linked to this early idea of it as an aphrodisiac

552
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: and being linked to sex, where oh, if you eat

553
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: too much of it, you might become, you know, some

554
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: kind of sex monster. But then too if you look

555
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: at advertising in the nineteenth century, these chocolate dads typically

556
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: portrayed women of color representing chocolate in its raw, unrefined form,

557
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: whereas the white women were used to evoke a sense

558
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: of luxury and romance, which is very problematic, right, Yeah,

559
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: women of color being seen as the workers, white women

560
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: being seen as the consumers, going from raw to refine.

561
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: There's all sorts of really icky racial things there, which

562
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: makes sense because it ties so much into those issues

563
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: of class and the evolution of chocolate and how it

564
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: kind of became a mass marketed good. And I was

565
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: hoping to find more scholarship on the race aspects of

566
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: chocolate advertising, but unfortunately didn't, because I feel like today

567
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: it's still and maybe it's just just advertising in general,

568
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: but I still feel like you mostly almost exclusively see

569
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: white women in chocolate ads. Well, yeah, I mean, we're

570
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: we're definitely not in any sort of post racial utopia

571
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: by any means, especially when it comes to discussing chocolate.

572
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: The whole racist thing of calling women of color chocolate

573
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: is referring to well, any person of color as being chocolate. Yeah,

574
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: then you get into issues of exoticizing and eroticizing people

575
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,240
Speaker 1: of color by referring to them as chocolate. Again, didn't

576
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: find any you know, deep research on it, just a

577
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 1: few blog posts here and there, mostly from black women

578
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: asking like, please stop calling me chocolate because it's all

579
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: so notable that it's not like we refer to white

580
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: women as vanilla except to indicate how boring we are

581
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: when we have sex. Uh. Yeah, Well, there was that

582
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 1: one Cadbury ad that was addressing Naomi Campbell by saying,

583
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: move over, Naomi, there's a new diva in town talking

584
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: about a chocolate bar. And so that's that's combining. We

585
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: already had the diva conversation. That's combining like the worst

586
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: of all chocolate ads. Yeah, and she did not appreciate it.

587
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 1: I wouldn't an entire campaign to get them to take

588
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: it down, because I mean some people are saying, oh,

589
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: it's not you know, it's not racist, it's not, but yeah,

590
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a little bit racist. And then

591
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: there is just the awkwardness of More recently, Ferrero launched

592
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: an ad campaign in Germany for their white chocolate and

593
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: they're like, big commercial tagline was Germany votes White, so

594
00:35:55,320 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: which Germans were like, Hey, yeah, no, you remember, remember

595
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: Nazis and that whole thing. You please don't do this. Ah,

596
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: there's some people in some marketing departments somewhere who were

597
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,919
Speaker 1: laid off after that. I'm assuming, well, what did you think?

598
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: Did you see the Axe Dark Temptation ad? Where I didn't? Okay,

599
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: so what happens? I mean, it's an axe body spray ad.

600
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: So basically the premise of every single ax body spray

601
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: ad is that the guy puts it on and then

602
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: he just becomes irresistible chick magnet use the worst phrase

603
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: on the planet. Um. So with the Dark Temptation ad,

604
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: he puts on the body spray and it turns him

605
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: into a chocolate man. And what women love more than

606
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: chocolate caroline, And so women start coming up to him

607
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: and you know, eating away at his chocolate body, and

608
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,439
Speaker 1: then finally it's revealed that oh he's just like, he's

609
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: just a white guy under there. But the fact that

610
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: it's called dark temptation and it's it's fine because there's

611
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: a white guy under there still, you know, just some

612
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: just some issues, just some issues kind of all piling

613
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: up there together. Yeah, that is that is a pile

614
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: of issues. Yeah. Lots of lots of women eating away

615
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: at your very core. Yeah, lots of just symbolism loaded

616
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: into one terrible commercial. Um. But what though, okay, so speaking,

617
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: women eating men made out of chocolate. Yikes, what about

618
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: the science of this? Because we've talked all about advertising.

619
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: We have clearly been sold this idea that chocolate is

620
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: a food for women, that we love it more than

621
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: anything else, including shoes. But what does science have to

622
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: say about this? You would think, right that science would

623
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: have been, like, ladies, every time you bite into a

624
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 1: chocolate bar and you you get obsessed with the idea

625
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: of eating more chocolate and you feel addicted to it,

626
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: it's because it's releasing all of these amazing things, and

627
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: you're it's not really that. It's they've found that there's

628
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 1: not a huge like cause and effect chocolate. Sarah tonin

629
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: lank It's probably more that it chocolate is fatty and

630
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 1: sugary and it tastes real good. Yeah, there have been

631
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: a lot of studies actually looking at the psychopharmacological effects

632
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: of chocolate, essentially how groups of chemicals such as cannabinoids

633
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: and chocolate react in our brain and make us chocoholics,

634
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: I guess, And the suity results have kind of been mixed.

635
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: They really haven't been able to pin down one specific

636
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 1: chocolate craze chemical in there. So it's like, well, some

637
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: people really like it and I guess it's I guess

638
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: it's good. But there was the study called Chocolate and

639
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: Cheese their effects on mood, sort of looking at okay, well,

640
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: we know that it probably has something to do with

641
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: the fat and chocolate. So if we take a sweeteness

642
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: savory like cheese and compare it, what happens and their

643
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: best conclusion was that it's proba probably the oro sensory

644
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: effect of eating chocolate. Essentially, we like how it smells,

645
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: how it feels in our mouth, just all of the

646
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: sensory sensations of eating chocolate. The look on your face

647
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: right now, Caroline, I feel like you've been whisked away.

648
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: I need to go find that Easter basket. You need

649
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: to go to Pleasure Island from the I absolutely do um.

650
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: Speaking of health stuff, one thing that does get brought

651
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 1: up in women's magazines a lot is if you like chocolate, ladies,

652
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: not only are you gonna get fat, but you're gonna

653
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: break out. Yeah, what about what about that connection? Yeah? Um,

654
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: that's something that I've always been worried about because I

655
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 1: had so many pimples when I was a young girl,

656
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: and even now my horm I'm thirty, right, like, I

657
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: shouldn't break out anymore, but I still do. Adult actnate

658
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: totally exists hormones anyway, So they looked at whether researchers

659
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 1: looked at whether, um, chocolate actually does produce acne, and

660
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: again the results were kind of mixed, but they did

661
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 1: find that among the people who broke out, who did

662
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: break out and experience acne, here's here's a little bit

663
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 1: of what happened. So after people ate chocolate and then

664
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: we're exposed to the bacteria that caused acne, they found

665
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: that the blood was shown to have more markers of

666
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: inflammation than the people who had not eaten chocolate. But

667
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: they're just not sure what component of chocolate actually caused

668
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 1: that inflammation, whether it is the fat or whether it

669
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: is the sugar. I mean, we know that sugar causes

670
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: inflammation in the body, but they're not quite sure about

671
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: the acne link. It seems like that's the story with

672
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: everything regarding women in chocolate. We're just not quite sure.

673
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: But here have some chocolate in the meantime while we

674
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: try to figure this out, let's also talk about the

675
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: stereotype of periods making women crave chocolate even more. Yeah,

676
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 1: I I am. I was. I'm gonna tell the truth here.

677
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: I was a little dismayed to find out that there

678
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: is no scientific link really supporting the hypothesis that you

679
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: crave chocolate more around your period, because I swear I

680
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: don't know what it is in my brain and the

681
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: brain of Caroline Urban Podcast or Extraordinaire. I don't know

682
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: what's going on that like leading up to my period,

683
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: I'm just like gorging on chocolate, and like as I'm

684
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: stuffing the fifteen candy bar in my face, I'm like, oh, Okay,

685
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: I see what's happening. But I wonder if it's just

686
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: not so much the chocolate as maybe a connection between

687
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: menstrual cycles and comfort food. And some scientists say that,

688
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: you know, chocolate contains minerals like magnesium and iron, which

689
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: we may be deficient in around our period things like that.

690
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: All I know is just I just wanted. And one

691
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 1: of the reasons so why this period chocolate hypothesis has

692
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: been debunked is because chocolate cravings don't diminish with menopause.

693
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,720
Speaker 1: If it was a period thing, then we would see

694
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: a massive drop off in women over fifty wanting chocolate.

695
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: But that all happens. Well, maybe it's a mood thing,

696
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: because I know, like when I'm sick or hungover or

697
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: just generally not feeling good, I want comfort food. I

698
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: want like fried chicken and mashed potatoes and soup and

699
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: like you know, salty, mushy, amazing things that have really

700
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: strong flavors um And so maybe chocolate just fits into that,

701
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: like making you feel good. Well, speaking of making you

702
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: feel good, the one thing that we do know about chocolate,

703
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: specifically dark chocolate, is yes, the rumors are true. Dark

704
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: chocolate does appear to have some health benefits. There was

705
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 1: a study published linking it to lower rates of stroke,

706
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: coronary heart disease, blood pressure, and other cardiovascular conditions, but

707
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 1: in an interview with The New York Times about this study,

708
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 1: finding one of the lead authors said, police, don't get

709
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: us wrong. This doesn't mean that you can eat all

710
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 1: of the chocolate that you want. We're just saying it's

711
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:06,439
Speaker 1: a correlation. It's not a causation, right, Yes, antioccidents, Yes,

712
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: Gorging on chocolate until you throw up pretty much destroys

713
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: any of the positive effects of chocolate. Although I was

714
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,439
Speaker 1: thinking about studies exactly like this one when Sally also

715
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 1: gave me a solid dark chocolate Easter Bunny. But no,

716
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: don't try to come from me. I don't care. I don't. Yeah,

717
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't feel guilt. I mean I do,

718
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: but I don't. But see, that's good, that's great that

719
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: you don't feel guilt. You shouldn't feel any guilt. If

720
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 1: you want chocolate, eat the chocolate. I don't know, I

721
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: just I'm so yeah, I'm at the point of I'm

722
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: just tired of hearing about it. I'm tired of seeing

723
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: those weird ads. I don't get it, you know, yeah,

724
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: I don't. Uh, it's the same things. Like I'm surprised

725
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: there's not more terrible chocolate stock photography. I mean, I

726
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: know there is, but you know, the way we see

727
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: women laughing over salads, the same way we see women

728
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: eating yogurt, like chocolate is in that same ballpark, as

729
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: far as like women are so stupid, look at what

730
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 1: you're eating and how you're eating it, and like you're

731
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: pinning all of your hopes and dreams on it, whereas

732
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: men are just told that they really want a grill meet. Yeah,

733
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: you want a hamburger? Have a hamburger? Sloppy? Joe's sloppy.

734
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: Joe's not sloppy jays Nope. Well, Caroline, I think we've

735
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: now pretty much exhausted all of our chocolate knowledge and

736
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: now it's time to hear from listeners. I want to

737
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,399
Speaker 1: know if there are guys out there who are also

738
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: a self identified chocoholics. I want to know who the

739
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: ladies are like me who could care less about a

740
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: bag of Eminem's, Give me some dol Rito's please, or

741
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: like any kind of chip you get me. I'm saying

742
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: savory rather than sweet. And anyone who don't, I don't

743
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: know what are your thoughts on chocolate? Let us know.

744
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: Mom's Stuff at Discovery dot com is where you can

745
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: email us. You can also tweet us at mom Stuff

746
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: podcast or send us a Facebook message, and we have

747
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: a couple of messages to share with you right now.

748
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: So I've got a couple of messages here about our

749
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: new male grooming episode. This one is from Jess, who writes,

750
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: in My Dating career, I despise male body hair. I

751
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 1: thought it was just plain unattractive and probably wouldn't have

752
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: looked twice at a hairy dude. However, a few years

753
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: ago I met a guy and film madly in love

754
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: with an extremely hairy dude. I mean his back has

755
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: started to connect with his chest. Hair level of Harry anyway,

756
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 1: his hair a nous drives me crazy too, but in

757
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 1: a good way. I think a huge part of what

758
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: we find attractive is just what we see on TV.

759
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: The unknown is always scary. It's really frustrating because he,

760
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 1: as you mentioned many men are, is very self conscious

761
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: about his man for he has even asked me to

762
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: tweeze hairs from areas that bother him. Once you associate

763
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: body hair with a manly dude who treats you like gold,

764
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: it's very sexy. Here's hoping for more hair representation in

765
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: the media. Ah and for love and I hope, I

766
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: hope that letter makes that gentleman feel better. Who wrote

767
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: us very concerned about whether he'd find a date. Ye,

768
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: don't worry about your hairy bags. Don't worry about it.

769
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: I have a letter here from Gretchen who wrote in

770
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: about beards as well, and she said, well, I can

771
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: definitely see a trend in the popularity of beards on

772
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: men on TV. I wonder if this is just a

773
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: trend in certain social circles. Maybe it's because I live

774
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: in Alaska that I have never thought of a beard

775
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 1: is something trendy, just something some men had and others didn't.

776
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: When I was growing up, my father sported a beard,

777
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: and my husband grows when every fall and shaves it

778
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: off in the spring. He does this as he works

779
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 1: outside and below zero weather, and it often helps keep

780
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: him warm and when spring comes it's too warm. I

781
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: know other men up here who also follow this practice.

782
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: I like my husband's appearance both ways, so whatever he

783
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: wants is fine with me. On a recent trip this

784
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 1: winter to London, England, we did take an interesting notice

785
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: of the lack of beards there. In fact, my husband's

786
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 1: caught the attention of one small boy who marveled at

787
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: his appearance, exclaiming and pointing. Adam out of pure amazement.

788
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: I also think if a man isn't well endowed in

789
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 1: the facial hair department, what is wrong with being clean shaven?

790
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: If that suits in better? And then Gretchen has uh

791
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 1: some more comforting words for our harryman out there. She

792
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: says on the topic of other body hairmanance, personally, I

793
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: like a guy with some chest hair and find the

794
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: idea of waxing it or shaving it off because that

795
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: is what women like. Silly, so fear not men, some

796
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: women dig it. So thanks Gretchen. I'm sure a lot

797
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: of listeners out there appreciate your viewpoint, and thanks to

798
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: everybody who's written into us. Mom. Stuff at Discovery dot

799
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: com is our email address, and if you want to

800
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: find links to all of our social media, all of

801
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: our podcast, blogs and videos, you should head on over

802
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com for more

803
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how

804
00:47:54,320 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com S