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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Well, the facts just keep mounting. In the assassination of

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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk now, a Utah restaurant owner claims the alleged shooter,

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Speaker 2: Tyler Robinson, was hungry. Yeah, shooting Charlie Kirk, husband and

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Speaker 2: father activist certainly did not dampen his appetite, the owner.

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Speaker 2: The restaurant owner even revealing what the alleged assassin ordered. Wow,

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Speaker 2: how do people do it? I've always been curious, how

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Speaker 2: do they manage to wolf down a steak dinner after

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Speaker 2: gunning somebody down dead. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: A Utah business owner says, Tyler Robinson wolf down a

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Speaker 2: steak dinner after allegedly gunning down conservative activist Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't just a state dinner. It was a

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Speaker 2: hardy steak dinner. It was a mom and pop steakhouse

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Speaker 2: about three hours south of where the Turning Point USA

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Speaker 2: founder was shot. At an Orum College gathering, the twenty

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Speaker 2: two year old murder suspects sat all alone at the counter,

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Speaker 2: kept to himself.

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Speaker 1: But ate like a pig. That's what we're learning.

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Speaker 2: Okay, reality chick. Enough about the steak dinner? What about

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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk? What happened that day?

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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk, the thirty one year old head of Turning

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Speaker 3: Point USA, is shot dead during a speaking event at

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Speaker 3: Utah Valley University in Orham. The shooting took place about

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Speaker 3: twenty minutes into his speech. Bystanders said Kirk was hit

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Speaker 3: in the neck while answering student questions. A UVU alert

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Speaker 3: confirmed quote A single shot was fired on campus toward

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Speaker 3: a visiting speaker. Police are investigating now. Video from the

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Speaker 3: scene showed students running as the shots rang out and

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Speaker 3: Kirk being rushed away by his security team. Utah Governor

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Speaker 3: Spencer Cox posted on x quote those responsible will be

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Speaker 3: held fully accountable. Violence has no place in our public life.

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Speaker 3: Americans of every political persuasion must unite in condemning this act.

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Speaker 3: Our prayers are with Charlie, his family, and all those affected.

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Speaker 3: Utah Senator Mike Lee wrote quote, please join me in

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Speaker 3: praying for Charlie Kirk and the students gathered there. Vice

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Speaker 3: President Vance added on x quote, say a prayer for

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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk, a genuinely good guy. And a young father.

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Speaker 3: FBI Director Cash Pattel said, quote, we are closely monitoring

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Speaker 3: reports of the tragic shooting involving Charlie Kirk at Utah

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Speaker 3: Valley University. Our thoughts are with Charlie, his loved ones,

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Speaker 3: and everyone involved. Agents will be on the scene quickly,

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Speaker 3: and the FBI stands in full support of the ongoing response.

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Speaker 3: Kirk himself had posted online only moments before the attack, quote,

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Speaker 3: we are so back. Utah Valley University is fired up

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Speaker 3: and ready for the first stop on the American Comeback Tour.

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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk rose to national prominence after co founding Turning

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Speaker 3: Point USA in twenty twelve. Has since built the group

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Speaker 3: into a major conservative force on campuses, created several offshoots,

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Speaker 3: including Turning Point Action and Turning Point Faith, and he

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Speaker 3: hosts The Charlie Kirk Show. He has been a strong

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Speaker 3: supporter of President Trump and has often spoken out on

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Speaker 3: issues like critical race theory and government mandates. On Wednesday,

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Speaker 3: he was speaking under a tent at the university courtyard

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Speaker 3: as part of his American Comeback Tour. Shots were fired

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Speaker 3: from the top of a nearby building about two hundred

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Speaker 3: yards away. The campus went into lockdown while police and

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Speaker 3: federal agents swarmed the scene. Earlier reports stated a shooter

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Speaker 3: was arrested, but that has been corrected by UVU to

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Speaker 3: state that there is no suspect in custody.

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Speaker 1: With a high degree of certainty, we have him.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 1: We got him. A massive manhunt.

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Speaker 3: The suspect was taken into custody at ten pm local time.

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Speaker 2: The assassin who gunned down a loving father of a husband.

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Speaker 1: The suspect was apprehended in historic time period right custody

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Speaker 1: in custody.

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Speaker 2: The assassin who guns down a father of two.

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Speaker 4: He is observed on video in a Plaine maroon T

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Speaker 4: shirt like colored shorts, a black hat with a white logo,

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Speaker 4: and light colored shoes arriving on UVU campus in a

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Speaker 4: Great Dodge Challenger at approximately eight twenty nine.

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Speaker 5: A M.

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Speaker 4: Tyler Robinson. Robinson had become more political in recent years.

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Speaker 4: A second unfired casing red, oh belichow bella chow belichow

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Speaker 4: chow chow. And a third unfired casing red if you

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Speaker 4: read this.

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Speaker 6: You are gay.

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Speaker 2: His wife and two little children who will grow up

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Speaker 2: without daddy.

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Speaker 4: This is a very sad day. For again for our country.

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Speaker 7: And I do know this is going to be a

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Speaker 7: federal case, and there's many of us believe that Charlie

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Speaker 7: was targeted because of this political ideology.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what's going to happen to this guy?

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Speaker 3: Well, I hope it's going to be found guilty, I

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Speaker 3: would imagine, and I hope he gets the death penalty.

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Speaker 5: Tyler Doings relics cal One has your made it her

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Speaker 5: count two fellow, you discharge the fight arm because he's serious.

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Speaker 5: Filing injury. I am filing a notice of intent to

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Speaker 5: see the death patty because if his belief believed to

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Speaker 5: Attarney a Charlie heard based on Charlie Hurt's political expression

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Speaker 5: and in solling, the children were present and would witness.

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Speaker 2: The second death penalty is the death Penuilty is the

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Speaker 2: death penulty.

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Speaker 1: They loaded him up. That's right.

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Speaker 2: With so many alternative counts, it will be hard for

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Speaker 2: a jury to find him not guilty.

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Speaker 5: Listen, I am filing a criminal information Charlie Tyler Jings

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Speaker 5: relics in age with a following crime. Cal One has

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Speaker 5: remade a murder a coutal offense, or intentionally or knowingly

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Speaker 5: causing the deathly herd un her circumstances that created a

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Speaker 5: great risk of death to others. Cow two felony discharge

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Speaker 5: of the fire arm causing serious body injury, a first degree.

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Speaker 1: Felony legal term.

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Speaker 2: They ain't playing, joining me in all, start panel to

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Speaker 2: make sense of what we're learning in the courtroom.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to Randolph Right joining us.

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Speaker 2: Former felony prosecutor, now criminal defense attorney, joining us at

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Speaker 2: Rice Law, Randolph Rice charging in the alternative.

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Speaker 1: I've done it a million times.

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Speaker 2: If I got a case and the grand jury had

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Speaker 2: not indicted in the alternative, I would either a send

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Speaker 2: it back to the grand jury and represent it myself

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Speaker 2: to get those alternative counts, or have the judge charge

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Speaker 2: the jury with the alternative counts. What I mean by

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Speaker 2: that is, you shoot Jackie, you plan to shoot Jackie.

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Speaker 2: It's malice, aforethought, it's premeditated murder.

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Speaker 1: Murder one, So I charge you with murder one.

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Speaker 2: But I'm worried, So then I charged you with voluntary

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Speaker 2: manslaughter murder two, involuntary manslaughter if I'm desperate. In other words,

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Speaker 2: there is no way you are walking out of that

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Speaker 2: courtroom if.

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Speaker 1: I have anything to do with it without a conviction.

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Speaker 2: They loaded him up explain in a nutshell Rice nutshell, Well, Nancy.

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Speaker 8: You did a great job explain that, because if you

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Speaker 8: don't get that top count, the most serious count, you've

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Speaker 8: got the backups. But the problem here is, and there

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Speaker 8: is a problem, is that I think that they may

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Speaker 8: be reaching on this aggravated murder. Now, they may be

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Speaker 8: using this as leverage to force him or try to

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Speaker 8: get him to take a plead. But the aggravating circumstances

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Speaker 8: at this point I think are very.

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Speaker 1: Very sough head blowing off. Are you they're reaching? Are

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Speaker 1: you serious?

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Speaker 5: This guy?

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Speaker 2: According to the state, this guy stakes out the place,

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Speaker 2: and I believe they're going to end up with video

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Speaker 2: showing that was not his first trip to the top

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Speaker 2: of that roof. He stakes it out, He plans it

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Speaker 2: in advance, even a wardrobe change. A lot of forethought

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Speaker 2: goes into this. He targets someone because of their freedom

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Speaker 2: of speech. I don't care if you agree with Kirk

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Speaker 2: or disagree with Kirk. I really couldn't care less doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: He targeted him for his freedom of speech, and that

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Speaker 2: is a major, major aggravating circumstances, akin to shooting a

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Speaker 2: judge or shooting a political figure like the president or

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Speaker 2: the vice president, or shooting a prosecutor or shooting a cop.

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Speaker 2: You go after them because of what they represent that

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Speaker 2: you don't like, and you actually, you know what, you

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Speaker 2: really know how to kick it off wrong, don't you.

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Speaker 1: I bet you're a super downer at a party.

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Speaker 2: You come in to crime stories and blurt out the

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Speaker 2: state is reaching what.

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Speaker 1: Could be more aggravating?

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Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, the problem is is that they're trying to

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Speaker 8: rely on the fact that there were children present or

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Speaker 8: that the crime could have hurt somebody else. And again,

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Speaker 8: that seems to be a bit of a stripture.

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Speaker 1: Show him the crowd here there you go.

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Speaker 2: Look look at that he shot from a little under

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Speaker 2: two hundred yards away, and you're saying nobody else was

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Speaker 2: in danger.

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Speaker 1: Rice, look at your monitor.

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Speaker 8: Nobody else is in danger in this situation, at least

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Speaker 8: from Again, I'm arguing the defense here, and I think

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Speaker 8: that the state has a good argument. But in the

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Speaker 8: defense's argument, they're going to say this was a single

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Speaker 8: bullet that had a single target that ultimately killed Charlie

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Speaker 8: Kirk and didn't endanger the other people in the crowd,

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Speaker 8: And that's where there may be a problem for the

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Speaker 8: prosecutor's office in trying to seek the charge that seeks

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Speaker 8: the death penalty.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so Randolph, you come in, you plot down in

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Speaker 2: the studio, and you first say the state is reaching.

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Speaker 1: They can't prove it. Did I not hear?

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Speaker 2: You just say the state has a good argument. So

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Speaker 2: which one is it? Does the state have a good argument?

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Speaker 1: I say they do?

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Speaker 2: Or are they overreaching? You know that's a very sad

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Speaker 2: second verse, same as the first. Is there any defense

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Speaker 2: attorney that doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Say, in a murder case, you're overreaching?

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Speaker 8: Oh no, every single case. Every defense attorney says that

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Speaker 8: you're overreaching. I do it in all the cases that

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Speaker 8: I defend, because that's their job. Their job is to

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Speaker 8: challenge the prosecution to say, did you try to get

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Speaker 8: too much?

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Speaker 6: Here?

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Speaker 8: And again, this is a tactic that the prosecutortion is

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Speaker 8: using to try to get the defendant to take a

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Speaker 8: police saying, hey, look.

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Speaker 1: Did you actually say the P word? Plea? You think

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Speaker 1: there's going to be a plea?

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Speaker 2: You think there's going to pull a coburger with the

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Speaker 2: whole world watching them. You don't think they're going to

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Speaker 2: take this to trial and see the death penalty, whether

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Speaker 2: they get it or not.

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Speaker 8: I thought Coburger was going to go to trial, and

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Speaker 8: look what happened there. I think that this is something

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Speaker 8: they're trying to push him into, is to take a place.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you know what, that's the first thing you've said

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Speaker 2: so far to me, Randolph, Rice, that makes any sense.

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Speaker 2: But actually, actually, now that I think about it, you're

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Speaker 2: absolutely correct. The number of counts could be a tactic

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Speaker 2: to make the defendant plea guilty, because there seems to

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Speaker 2: be no.

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Speaker 1: Way out with all these alternative counts.

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Speaker 2: I don't see it happening though. I don't see a

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Speaker 2: plea going down in this case.

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Speaker 1: But again, you're right, we didn't see one coming in

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Speaker 1: Coburger either. But put him up one more time, Randolph. Guys,

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Speaker 1: let me remind you.

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Speaker 2: Rice is a former very successful felony prosecutor. He's won

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Speaker 2: a lot of cases. Now he is a criminal defense

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Speaker 2: attorney civil attorney. So, Randolph, the aggravating circumstance you mentioned

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Speaker 2: was just that other people were endangered.

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Speaker 1: It's not like you shoot Jackie in the studio and

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Speaker 1: it's just the two of you.

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Speaker 2: This is a shooting with a throng of people, thousands

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Speaker 2: of people, if that bullet had gone the wrong way,

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Speaker 2: if there had been a gust of wind, who knows.

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Speaker 2: But they included another aggravating circumstance that this murder occurred

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Speaker 2: in the presence of children.

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Speaker 1: Now, that is aggravating a violent.

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Speaker 2: Felony that occurs in the presence of children. How are

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Speaker 2: you going to get out of that, Randolph Rice.

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Speaker 8: Bringing Shawn child in there that actually saw the murder.

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Speaker 8: They're going to have to prove that in court that

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Speaker 8: a child actually saw it was affected by it, and

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Speaker 8: therefore that's the aggravating circumstance. And so I don't know

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Speaker 8: if they've got that right now. You know, it just

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Speaker 8: might be tough for them on that account.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you're right, that's an element of proof. They will

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Speaker 2: have to bring in a child witness to prove it. Guys,

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Speaker 2: a lot has happened since these charges were announced formally

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Speaker 2: in court. Now what that was was an arrangement. An

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Speaker 2: arrangement where the defendant is brought in because you cannot

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Speaker 2: stay behind bars over seventy two hours without being told

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Speaker 2: what you're charged with by typically a magistrate. I believe

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Speaker 2: this is going to beat the trial judge from here out,

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Speaker 2: but we're also learning not just the charges, but how

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Speaker 2: the murder went down.

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Speaker 1: Listen.

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Speaker 5: At approximately eleven fifty one am, the suspect entered campus

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Speaker 5: from the north. He is seen wearing a live shirt

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Speaker 5: with an American flag in the center, a dark baseball out,

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Speaker 5: and large sunglasses. Throughout the surveillance, the suspect keeps his

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Speaker 5: head down and rarely raises his head enough to get

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Speaker 5: a clear image of his face. As he proceeds across

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Speaker 5: the campus. He's seen walking with an unusual gage. The

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Speaker 5: suspect watch with very little bending in his right leg,

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Speaker 5: consistent with a rifle being hidden in its pants.

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Speaker 2: Joining us now, Harmonia Rodriguez, She if you as reporter

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Speaker 2: Daily Mail.

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Speaker 1: Harmonia, thank you for being with us. So that explains.

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Speaker 2: Hey, let's see that TMC video we have of him walking,

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Speaker 2: because I can see what the prosecution is talking about,

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Speaker 2: especially if they play this in promo.

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Speaker 1: Harmonia, explain what they're talking.

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Speaker 9: About, right, So, officials gave us more insight about the

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Speaker 9: hours before this shooting last week. As we can see

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Speaker 9: on the screen, the suspect was seen arriving on campus

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Speaker 9: about four hours before the shooting, and there he is limping. Now,

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Speaker 9: this made the public wonder why this person was limping?

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Speaker 1: Do they have a limp?

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Speaker 9: Yesterday we learned that actually he had hidden the rifle

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Speaker 9: that he used in one of his pant legs, and

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Speaker 9: that's why he's limping the way we see him on screen.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's kind of bold. What about it?

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Speaker 2: Chris mcdonna joining US director Coldkay's Foundation Former Homicide to

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Speaker 2: take a start of the interview room on YouTube. Who

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Speaker 2: has gone to this scene, to the home, to the

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Speaker 2: shooting scene, through the neighborhood. You know that's pretty bold,

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Speaker 2: is he is? He not heard of ring doorbell cams

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Speaker 2: because they catch him going door to door to door

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Speaker 2: to door. They've got almost an uninterrupted path of him

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Speaker 2: walking through the neighborhood. And don't tell me mcdonaugh he

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Speaker 2: didn't case this out, like where am I going to park?

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Speaker 1: How am I going to get away?

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Speaker 2: This has been at least at least days in the making, absolutely, Nancy.

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Speaker 7: And what I've learned is he did have that vehicle

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Speaker 7: up there, and it was parked about a mile away

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Speaker 7: from the crime chine, and he walked in to the

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Speaker 7: crime machine to case it out initially before the situation

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Speaker 7: went down, and then later I've also learned that he

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Speaker 7: turned his phone off for a short period of time

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Speaker 7: and then turned it back on after the homicide.

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Speaker 2: Chris McDonough speaking of walking through the neighborhood to the

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Speaker 2: vehicle where did he park his muscle car?

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Speaker 7: The muscle card Nancy was parked approximately a mile away

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Speaker 7: at a church parking lot, an LDS church parking lot.

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Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensis Jackson will Stay University,

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Speaker 2: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star

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Speaker 2: of a hit new podcast series, Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 2: Joe Scott really did he pull a coburger slash morphew

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Speaker 2: where they both think they've outsmarted everybody by turning their

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Speaker 2: phone off.

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Speaker 1: There it's like my teen children. They're seventeen, believe it

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Speaker 1: or not.

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Speaker 2: The phone is constantly on, even right down to zero

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Speaker 2: one percent. Okay, they will not turn it off even

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Speaker 2: when they charge it. See that is a pattern or practice.

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Speaker 2: So when you just coincidentally turn your phone off at

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Speaker 2: the time of the incident, I mean, think about it,

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Speaker 2: Joe Scott. If it weren't for the murder, the mo

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Speaker 2: modus operandi method of operation would be laughable because you

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Speaker 2: see the pings leading up to a certain spot and

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Speaker 2: then poof the phone goes off, the murder occurs, then

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Speaker 2: poof the phone goes back on, and you see the

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Speaker 2: return back to your home nest.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 10: It's just yeah, yeah, you're right, and welcome to the

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Speaker 10: real world here, because these phones are the modern crime scene.

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Speaker 10: Because it seems like every case that we cover, you know,

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Speaker 10: I think most famously to this point Coburger's case, you

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Speaker 10: go to these patterns of behavior. This was spoken a lot,

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Speaker 10: spoken about quite a bit in that particular case. We

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Speaker 10: have established patterns. Why are you going to turn it

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Speaker 10: off at this particular time? And look, the case is

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Speaker 10: not proven simply based on that, but it's another element

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Speaker 10: that can be integrated into this from a behavioral standpoint.

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Speaker 1: This video from our friends over at the Independent speaking

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Speaker 1: of the rifle. Listen, rifle.

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Speaker 5: We're sent for forends and processing DNA consistent when Robin Pennocks,

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Speaker 5: a defendant was found on the trigger. Other parts of

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Speaker 5: the rifle, the fire cartridge, casing, two of the three

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Speaker 5: how to fire cartridges, and the towel. Law enforcement was

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Speaker 5: unable to immediately locate the shooter, so the published photos

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Speaker 5: of the shooter from the UBU surveillance cameras and ask

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Speaker 5: for the publics help to identify it. Meanwhile, law enforcement

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Speaker 5: continued and trying to identify the shooter.

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Speaker 1: Through other means, joining us.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall renown psychoanalysts out of the LA jurisdiction.

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Speaker 1: She is the author of deal Breaker.

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Speaker 2: You can see her now on peacock and she's at

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Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Before you launch into the

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Speaker 2: whole furry connection, I want to hear your thoughts on

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Speaker 2: a guy.

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Speaker 1: That comes from a loving home, very loving.

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Speaker 2: We've heard Wow, he was afraid to tell his parents

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Speaker 2: he was dating another guy that was transitioning. The family knew,

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to tell you about that in just

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Speaker 2: a moment. So he comes to a very loving home.

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Speaker 1: He was smart.

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Speaker 2: Dr Bethany Marshall got a scholarship at the top one

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Speaker 2: percent of I believe it was his act exam.

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Speaker 1: Almost forty thousand dollars of scholarship.

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Speaker 2: Goes to college, doesn't like it, leaves college, comes out,

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Speaker 2: pursues Listen.

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Speaker 11: To this thirty two thousand dollars. This scholarship is available

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Speaker 11: for forty years or a semesters.

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Speaker 1: I mean they're supportive, they love him.

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Speaker 2: My bottom line here is what went wrong, And I'm

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Speaker 2: not talking about his relationship with a guy. That's irrelevant,

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Speaker 2: doesn't matter. Some people say right, some people say wrong,

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Speaker 2: don't care. But what I'm talking about, Bethany, is how

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Speaker 2: do you guy from a loving home when the parents

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Speaker 2: like you're the apple of their eye to becoming a

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Speaker 2: psycho shooter?

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Speaker 12: Because Nancy, he seems to me to be what we

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Speaker 12: call narcissistically vulnerable, meaning he gets the thirty two thousand

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Speaker 12: dollars scholarship, but then he drops out of college and

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Speaker 12: studies to become an electrician. And what that tells me,

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Speaker 12: if he were my patient, is that he cannot tolerate

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Speaker 12: being with his peers. He doesn't feel intact or good

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Speaker 12: enough about himself. He doesn't have a strong ego. So

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Speaker 12: the risk factor for shooters is that they often feel

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Speaker 12: insulted by society. They feel that they are in a

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Speaker 12: one down position, that everybody's bullying them, everybody's acting like

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Speaker 12: they're better than them, and they hold on to every

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Speaker 12: little grudge until they have some kind of a profound

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Speaker 12: loss in their life, and in this case it may

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Speaker 12: have been dropping out of college, and they become even angrier.

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Speaker 12: And when they decide to shoot, they don't just walk

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Speaker 12: through the crowd, Nancy. They're always on the top of

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Speaker 12: a building. Have you noticed that about school shooters? I mean,

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Speaker 12: one we covered many years ago was a guy who

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Speaker 12: stood at the top of a staircase after having locked

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Speaker 12: all the doors so the students couldn't get out. We

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Speaker 12: call it like the fish in a barrel kind of

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Speaker 12: mo of the shooting. So that's the reversing of the

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Speaker 12: feeling of being powerless. Now he's in a powerful position.

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Speaker 12: He's like the big man on campus, literally whizzing bullets

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Speaker 12: over children and families' heads, talking about getting an erection

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Speaker 12: which is inscribed on the bullet, and feeling powerful for

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Speaker 12: the first time in his life. So he's trying to

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Speaker 12: reverse a feeling of being powerless, helpless, and at the

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Speaker 12: bottom of society.

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Speaker 11: To receive the Presidential Scholarship from Utah State University. The

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Speaker 11: value of this scholarship is approximately thirty two thousand dollars.

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Speaker 11: This scholarship is available for forty years or a semesters.

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Speaker 5: Do you see you wearing a live shirt with a

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Speaker 5: Murdan flag in the center, a dark baseball out in

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Speaker 5: large sunglasses.

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Speaker 6: He arrived on campus in different clothing, change into what

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Speaker 6: we see in those surveillance images, been changed back into

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Speaker 6: the other outfit.

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Speaker 1: He shoots and then he's off the buildings.

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Speaker 5: Four days.

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Speaker 1: Then we see him limping as he's walking through.

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Speaker 2: He had a conscious subjective formal charges read in open court,

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Speaker 2: but I'm more in those charges, in my mind, were predictable,

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Speaker 2: although the state did get creative in the aggravating circumstances

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Speaker 2: that they charged.

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Speaker 1: It's not just murder, it's aggravated murder.

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Speaker 2: Murder with quote aggravating circumstances and the significance of that.

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Speaker 1: In order to see the death penalty, you have to.

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Speaker 2: Include aggravating circumstances. Just murdering somebody is not enough. Now,

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Speaker 2: there has to be aggravating circumstances. And to Randolph Rice

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Speaker 2: joining us.

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Speaker 1: Better than trial lawyer.

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Speaker 2: They vary, but in every jurisdiction across our country, you

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Speaker 2: have to have aggravating circumstances to seek the death penalty.

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Speaker 1: In Cyburger, it was mass murder more than one body.

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Speaker 1: It's mass murder.

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Speaker 2: Here explain the significance of them putting in the indictment,

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Speaker 2: in the charges, the aggravating circumstances, they have to be proved,

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Speaker 2: just like every element of the crime.

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Speaker 8: NaNs, You're exactly right. You've got to prove every single element,

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Speaker 8: because what happens is the jurors are going to get

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Speaker 8: a jury instruction at some point in time, and it's

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Speaker 8: going to have all these different elements and it's going

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Speaker 8: to say unless you find beyond a reasonable doubt that

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Speaker 8: every single element has been met, then you can't find

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Speaker 8: him guilty of that charge. And so there is the

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Speaker 8: issue with does the state meet these aggravating circumstances that

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Speaker 8: gets them to the conviction, that gets them to the

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Speaker 8: death penalty.

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Speaker 2: So, for instance, in every prosecution, and we'll just go

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Speaker 2: with murders, that's what we're talking about tonight, you have

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Speaker 2: to prove who is the victim, that the indictment has

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Speaker 2: the victim correct, You have to prove the jurisdiction. You

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Speaker 2: have to prove malice, the forethought, even if it's malice

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Speaker 2: that lasts for a moment, the twinkling of an instant,

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Speaker 2: the blink of an eye qualifies as time to prove intent.

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Speaker 2: But when you seek the death penalty, you have to

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Speaker 2: include these aggravating circumstances, and.

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Speaker 1: Then they become an element of proof.

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Speaker 2: You have to prove them, each element beyond a reasonable doubt.

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Speaker 2: Like you said earlier, Correctly, they may have to bring

443
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 2: in a child to prove a child was.

444
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: In harm's way. So we'll see how the state's going

445
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: to prove it. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

446
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 2: Apparently, the woman that serves Robinson, said he was quiet

447
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 2: and shy, but according to police, he was bold enough

448
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 2: to pull off an assassination, taking an extremely difficult shot

449
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 2: and gunning down a father and husband. So he turns

450
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 2: up three hours away, chowing down the scene that.

451
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: He had just left. Horrific.

452
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 5: What happened on September eleven, twenty twenty five, the day

453
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 5: after the shooting, Robinson's mother saw the photo and the

454
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 5: shooter in the news and thought of the shooter looked

455
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 5: like her son. Robinson's mother called her son and asked

456
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 5: him where he was. He said he was at home sick,

457
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 5: and that he had also been at home set on

458
00:25:58,600 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 5: September tenth.

459
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 2: Just a moment her money and Rodriguez joining US Daily Mail.

460
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 2: He said he was home sick. What did he add?

461
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 2: The dog ate my homework home sick.

462
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: That's weak.

463
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 9: These were details that I mean, we're really harrowing if

464
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 9: you imagine what his parents went through. As we just

465
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 9: saw official saying apparently the day after the shooting, this

466
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 9: mother looks at the images released by the FBI as

467
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 9: they were hunting this person down.

468
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: She thinks it looks like her son. Calls him.

469
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 9: He says he's at home sick for the second day

470
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 9: in a row.

471
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what, Joscott Morgan, what about it?

472
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 2: If I saw my son or daughter in a baseball

473
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 2: hat and a pair of sunglasses, I would still know

474
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 2: it's them.

475
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 10: Of course you would, Yeah, all of us would. There's

476
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 10: no way that you're not going to recognize your child.

477
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 10: I think the big thing here, you know, probably for

478
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 10: this mother, and this is more of a doctor bethany issue.

479
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 10: But what do you do with that information? You know,

480
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 10: how does it Because you've been with him his entire life,

481
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 10: so you know, again, she's going to call him up.

482
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 10: She wants to confirm it. You know, do I believe

483
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 10: my lying eyes? And it turns out that her eyes

484
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 10: were not lying. In this case and answer, you know.

485
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 1: What, You're right, doctor Bethany Marshall.

486
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 2: How will this affect the parents going forward knowing they

487
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 2: turned their son in?

488
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 12: You know, Joe Scott Morgan and I were talking on

489
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 12: the break and that sound where he has the thirty

490
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 12: two thousand dollars scholarship. Do you notice that his affect

491
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 12: is very flat.

492
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: He doesn't seem excess. I did, so it's the mother

493
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: that goes oooh, and.

494
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 12: Then he kind of mimics the woo in a less

495
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 12: sharp tone or less elevated tone. So I'm going to

496
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 12: guess that this mother has a long history of trying

497
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 12: to pump her son up to act normal in society.

498
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 12: So when she sees this image of him, I don't

499
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 12: think is as much of a shock as you and

500
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 12: I might think. I would guess, you know how parents

501
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 12: know their children that they've always known and something is wrong,

502
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 12: and they're always waiting for the other.

503
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 1: Shoe to drop.

504
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 12: She sees the image, it's confirmed, she calls dad, Reality

505
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 12: meets internal fearfulness, and now she's the one who has

506
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 12: to turn him in. Maternal guilt, Nancy, She's going to

507
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 12: feel maternal guilt.

508
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: Not only that she turned him.

509
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 12: In, but that she gave birth to somebody who could

510
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 12: have done this, and she'll blame herself for having raised

511
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 12: him in the wrong way. Although we know these kinds

512
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 12: of disorders are very biologically based, it is not the

513
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 12: parent's fault.

514
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: Okay, I understood about fifty percent of what you said. Okay,

515
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: I think what you said is the mother.

516
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: Has likely spent her whole life trying to present to

517
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: the world antie herself and her son is normal. And

518
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: I don't mean that he's mentally insane, because he clearly

519
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 2: knew what he did was wrong. He planned it, he

520
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: concealed it, then he covered it up afterwards as evidence

521
00:28:59,360 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: of guilty.

522
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: He knew it was wrong.

523
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 2: But mom compensating, saying, look, he won a scholarship, he's

524
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: so smart. Look this he, you know, is a boy scout.

525
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: Look he sings in the choir. He's awesome, he cuts

526
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 2: the grass. I love him, he's wonderful. All that while

527
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 2: knowing something is off. That's a lifetime of compensating. Dr Bethany.

528
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 12: Yes, this mother has her own lifetime sentence. And I,

529
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 12: obviously I haven't met this guy. I don't know if

530
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 12: he's asocip path. But let's see theoretically, if he was,

531
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 12: the mother would likely have noticed many things.

532
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: Look look, Bethany, look at your screen. Look at your screen.

533
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: I grew up on a red dirt road, as everybody knows,

534
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 2: and I always wonder I look at people with like

535
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: a six bedroom home worth over a half a million dollars.

536
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: They're all going to college, they have great jobs.

537
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: What's nothing to be happy about? I don't I don't

538
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: get it, Dr Bethany. Maybe I've set the standard too low.

539
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: But you know I got a family, I've got a home,

540
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: I've got a job for right now, we're all healthy.

541
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: I'm on top of the world. I don't get it, Bethany.

542
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: But we know that this guy was supremely unhappy.

543
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 12: He was so unhappy he couldn't even follow through with

544
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 12: a scholarship, so unhappy that he can't even smile when

545
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 12: he gets the scholarship. Nancy, this has nothing to do

546
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 12: with his upbringing or his family. I can say that

547
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 12: fairly confidently, even without knowing them. This type of disorder

548
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 12: is what we call psycho biological, meaning, to break it down,

549
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 12: there's something wrong with his brain.

550
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: If you did a brain.

551
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 12: Scan, you would probably see that there's a there's a

552
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 12: quieting in the part of the brain that's responsible for empathy.

553
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 12: You might even see like a Coburger syndrome of bullying

554
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 12: other people and wanting to be in a one up position.

555
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm not going to let you go

556
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: down the Aaron Hernandez route where they climb the defense climbed.

557
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: He he'll so murdered so many people because there was

558
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: something wrong with his brain. When he functioned completely normally

559
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: and excelled, it was a multi millionaire, blew it.

560
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: No no, no, But as he just going to be

561
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: in defense, this.

562
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 12: Guy was not functioning normally. He was on top of

563
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 12: that building sweating, depositing all this DNA. In the text,

564
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 12: we read that he wants to take the secret with

565
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 12: him till old age, so he actually thinks he's going

566
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 12: to get away with this.

567
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: That is something seriously wrong with the rise Pa. Please

568
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: get her back in the middle of the road and

569
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: out of the weeds.

570
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 2: All criminals think they're the smartest one in the room

571
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: and they're not going to get caught.

572
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: They all think that sure, it's not special.

573
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's why it's been proven. The definitely doesn't work

574
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 8: because it's not a term for people to not commit

575
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 8: crimes because they don't think about I'm never going to

576
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 8: get caught, so their final have to worry about getting

577
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 8: shot a firing squad.

578
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: Mister Robinson.

579
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 13: I also wish to inform you of your rights against

580
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 13: self incrimination. Anything that you say in court today could

581
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 13: be used against you, and we want to protect your

582
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 13: constitutional rights, mister Robinson. At this time, you will remain

583
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 13: in custody without bail.

584
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 5: Robinson's mother expressed a concern to her husband as a

585
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 5: suspect shooter leve light love and say Robinson's father I

586
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 5: grew Robinson's father explained that over the last year or so,

587
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 5: Robinson had become more political and had started to lean

588
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 5: more to the.

589
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 2: Left, as if somehow being left wing means that you're

590
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: gonna gun somebody down at long range. I think the

591
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 2: significance of the mom saying the allegislator had become more

592
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 2: political and left leaning was it was a departure from

593
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: the family values and what he had been his whole

594
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: life up until that point. Now, we heard last night

595
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: that a relative of the roommate blames the roommate for

596
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 2: radicalizing the defendant but the reality is is it doesn't

597
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 2: matter who persuaded him. It doesn't matter. He did this

598
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 2: shooting of his own volition. Many people have wondered did

599
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: his parents know of his relationship with his roommate.

600
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: Yes, they did. Listen.

601
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 5: She said that Robinson began and day in his roommate,

602
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 5: a biological mail whose present transition and generous. This resulted

603
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 5: in several discussions with family in person, but especially between

604
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,719
Speaker 5: Robinson and his father, who had very different political views.

605
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 5: In one conversation before the shooting, Robinson mentioned that Charlie

606
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 5: Curry would be holding you, which Robinson said was a

607
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 5: sup academy for the investment. Robinson accused currently of spreading

608
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 5: the page.

609
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure how a murder of a loving

610
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 2: father of two, a husband has turned into an argument

611
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 2: about furries and trans Sidney s'moner joining me, crime stories,

612
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 2: investigative reporter.

613
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,959
Speaker 1: None of that matters. It doesn't matter.

614
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter if he's straight, if he was gay,

615
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 2: if he was by, if he was trans. None of

616
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: that bears on the elements approving a murder case.

617
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 1: How did that take? Center?

618
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 6: Stave sid Well some interesting bullet and graevings, and we're

619
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 6: learning more about those. So at first we maybe thought

620
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 6: that this was a reference that Robinson was a furry

621
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 6: was part of one of these counter culture groups. But

622
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 6: it seems like now, based on his text to his boyfriend,

623
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 6: that Robinson was just making a giant joke. So his

624
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 6: references to the furry group notices bulge uwu ou Wu,

625
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 6: it was just a joke and it didn't mean anything.

626
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 6: So that's why this took such a big part of

627
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 6: this was we thought that he was making some kind

628
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 6: of statement with these bullet inscriptions.

629
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: Are you saying the inscriptions on the bullet were just

630
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: a joke? Sydney Summer.

631
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 14: According to Robinson, that's what he told his roommate Sydney.

632
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 14: The engravings that you are suggesting are just a joke.

633
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 14: We're on the bullets used to murder an innocent person.

634
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 14: So I don't know who's claiming you know that's a joke.

635
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 15: Listen, remember how I was engraving bullets. The messages are

636
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 15: mostly a big meme.

637
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: If I see.

638
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 15: Notices bulge Uwu on Fox News, I might have a stroke.

639
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 15: All Right, I'm going to have to leave it.

640
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 1: That really sucks.

641
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,280
Speaker 15: Judging from today, I'd say Grandpa's gun does just fine.

642
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 8: I don't know.

643
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 15: I think that was a two thousand dollars scope. Delete

644
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 15: this exchange.

645
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: So this is an exchange that the religious shooter, the

646
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 2: Kirk shooter is having with the romantic partner, as the

647
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: roommate is being described. Okay, remember how I was engraving

648
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 2: the bullets? Whoa whoa Wait a minute, number one, what

649
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 2: psycho engravece the bullets? I guess this guy in Luigi Mangioni.

650
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: But that says to me, Randolph Rice, the roommate was

651
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: there when Robinson was engraving the bullets.

652
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: Hello, accomplice, codefendant.

653
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,959
Speaker 8: The problem, Nancy. They need that roommate in their case

654
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 8: because that roommate is so important to connecting the Kirk killer,

655
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 8: the Kirk shooter to those text messages. They need to

656
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 8: keep that roommate, that love interest happy. They need to

657
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 8: keep them close because that's going to be probably one

658
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 8: of their first witnesses.

659
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,280
Speaker 1: So I hear what you're saying, Randolph.

660
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: The two are not mutually exclusive. You can get his

661
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: testimony and charge him as an accomplished to murder at

662
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 2: the same time.

663
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: In fact, let me.

664
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 2: Guess, does your wife do all the cooking in the home.

665
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard of meat tenderizer. I would let

666
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,479
Speaker 2: the roommate have a few months behind bars to see

667
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 2: if that jogs his recollection, so he can be a

668
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 2: co defendant and a witness at the same time.

669
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: What about that thought he can.

670
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 8: But remember, you've got to put this in front of

671
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 8: a jury. And how does the jury see that? Because

672
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 8: under your scenario, if you put him in jail and

673
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 8: all of a sudden, the defense turn says, hey, you've

674
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 8: been sitting in jail. The prosecutor puts you there, so

675
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 8: you feel like you're forced to tell this story that

676
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 8: doesn't look good in front of the jury.

677
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: No, no, no, you can argue that till you're blue

678
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: in the face. Randolph Rice.

679
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,240
Speaker 2: The fact that he would be arrested as a co defendant,

680
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: and again, everyone is presumed innocent until proven.

681
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:28,959
Speaker 1: Guilty in a court of law.

682
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 2: That said, of course, the code defendant goes to jail,

683
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: that's not unique. That said, what do you make of

684
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 2: that text? My original question before you went off with

685
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 2: your pity party about the roommate going to jail, that

686
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 2: shows me that he was there. The roommate was there,

687
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: and would recall the defendant engraving bullets, and don't you

688
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: imagine you would go, Hi, Tyler Robinson, why are you

689
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 2: engraving bullets?

690
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: I would so? Are you telling me now he had

691
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: no idea what was happening?

692
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 8: No, I think you're right. He did have a knowledge

693
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 8: of what was going on. And I think that there's

694
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 8: a potential that the roommates charged, And you're exactly right

695
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 8: on that. I'm looking at it from an optical perspective.

696
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 8: But if you wanted to charge the roommate, I think

697
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 8: you certainly have that ability to charge them with knowing

698
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 8: what was going on beforehand. The problem becomes can you

699
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 8: charge them what happened after? And then the text messages

700
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 8: that becomes another sort of sticky, sticky situation.

701
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 2: I'm just trying to figure out what you have to do,

702
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: Chris McDonough to actually engrave a bullet.

703
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: It sounds like trying to thread three needles at once.

704
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: How do you engrave a bullet?

705
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 7: Well, there's a couple of ways of doing it, Nancy.

706
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,479
Speaker 7: You can use, you know, a handheld engraver. But let's

707
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 7: also take a hard look at the messaging here, right.

708
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 2: You just happened to have a hand held engraver in

709
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 2: your tool pocket? Who would have your hand held engraver?

710
00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 2: You know what, step back and punt.

711
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: You have anything else for me?

712
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 7: Yeah you can. You can buy that really simple at

713
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 7: home depot. But also recognize that he says mostly the

714
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 7: FN messages.

715
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 8: Were mostly a big mean I e.

716
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 7: There's another messaging in the showcasing or the the cartridges

717
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 7: that were recovered the they only recovered the well. They

718
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 7: didn't find any showcasing on the on the roof, so

719
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 7: that means a it was either left in.

720
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 8: The bolt of the of the weapon and.

721
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 7: Then the three in the magazine show. The fact that

722
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 7: he was engraving a message on those cartridges tells us

723
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 7: there's a bigger story.

724
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace. Okay, I know you want

725
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: to know.

726
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 2: Robinson ordered a large medium rear surloin vegetables on the

727
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: side and a baked potato m Apparently committee murder did

728
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 2: not affect his appetite. The Charlie Kirk shooting caused shot

729
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 2: waves across our country.

730
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: This is what happened.

731
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 2: If you don't happen to be one of those people

732
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 2: that have a home hand engraver, then how.

733
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: Would you do it with a knife.

734
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 4: How do you do that?

735
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: And it's got to be legible because these were easily read.

736
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 10: Yeah, it does have to be legible. And the fact

737
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 10: this struck me from the beginning, you know, because we've

738
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 10: had a couple. If you remember the Minneapolis shooting at

739
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 10: mass a few weeks ago, that individual wrote these kind

740
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 10: of cryptic messages on the magazines themselves, but that was

741
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 10: with a marker, like an ink marker. In this case,

742
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 10: you have to get something that is you know, I

743
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 10: think I mentioned maybe yesterday in the Morgue, we use

744
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 10: what'd referred to as diamond engravers to mark the bases

745
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 10: of bullets, and this works on a metallic surface as well.

746
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 10: You have electrical engravers. I don't know if he went

747
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 10: that far.

748
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 2: And the problem is this, wait wait, I was about

749
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: to mock you about the diamond engraver, but wait a minute.

750
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 2: Didn't he work as an electrician or as an electric electricians?

751
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, that tool he.

752
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 10: Very well might, or he could have some semblance of that.

753
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 10: That would be What you have to have is a

754
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 10: metallic body that will mark on brass, because this is brass.

755
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 10: It's one of the softest metals that's out there and

756
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 10: people doing grave You know, soldiers have been doing it

757
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 10: for years and years. I wonder where you got this

758
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 10: idea from. But you know what I'm more interested in, Nancy,

759
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 10: not just the engraving. I'm fascinated by the fact that

760
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 10: this guy, according to the presser, not only left engravings

761
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 10: to mark these rounds, but he also left his DNA

762
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 10: on specific components within the weapon, even the trigger. Nancy,

763
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 10: this guy's leaving signatures everywhere.

764
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 2: When you say within the weapon that you're right, where

765
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: did authorities find DNA?

766
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: And they found a lot of it?

767
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm thinking, well, first off, they mentioned specifically the

768
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 10: trigger housing, and I say housing actually on the surface

769
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,479
Speaker 10: of the trigger, so that's probably going to be touched

770
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 10: DNA where you're pulling the trigger. However, this weapon has

771
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 10: what's referred to as an internal magazine. It's not like

772
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 10: the classic magazine kind of drops out and you have

773
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 10: to feed it back in. You literally, Nancy, have to

774
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 10: take your thumb and press these rounds into that in

775
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 10: dwelling magazine. So any of those surfaces around there where

776
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 10: you're trying to leverage this thing, even on the surface

777
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 10: of the bolt, the handle of the bolt, any of

778
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 10: these areas you can deposit DNA, and let's face it,

779
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 10: he had this thing wrapped in a towel. He's got

780
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,839
Speaker 10: to sing in kind of a pristine condition he's left

781
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 10: it in, so you know, they had a field day

782
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 10: when they got their hands on the thing in the lab.

783
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 5: Police Karony Robinson the room made a file on to

784
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 5: Gumel was involved in a remantic relationship with Robin, said

785
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 5: the roommate told the police that the roommate and received

786
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 5: messages for rob and said about the shooting, and he

787
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 5: had provide those messages to police.

788
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 15: I can get close to it, but there's a squad

789
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 15: car parked right by it. I think they already swept

790
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 15: that spot, but I don't want to chance it. I'm

791
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 15: wishing I had circled back and grabbed it as soon

792
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 15: as I got to my vehicle. I'm worried what my

793
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,240
Speaker 15: old man would do if I didn't bring back Grandpa's rifle.

794
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 15: I don't even know if it had a serial number,

795
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 15: but it wouldn't trace to me. I worry about Prince.

796
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 15: I had to leave it in a bush where I

797
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 15: changed outfits, didn't have the ability or time to bring

798
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 15: it with I might have to abandon it, and I

799
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 15: hope they don't find prints. How the will I explain

800
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 15: losing it to.

801
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: My old man?

802
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 2: I think he needs to get his priority straight. He's

803
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 2: worried about his dad being mad he lost the grandpa's gun.

804
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 1: What about the death penalty?

805
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 5: That?

806
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 1: What is he thinking?

807
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: DoD Bethony Marshall And did you notice this is a

808
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 2: recreay of all of the texts the alleged slator sends

809
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 2: to the room. If you notice, roommate's not answering, He's like, what,

810
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 2: But the guy's worried about losing grandpa's gun.

811
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 12: Nancy, I'd love to talk about the idea that he

812
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 12: thinks that what's on the bullets are a meme. A

813
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 12: meme is a joke, so he's already minimizing the severity

814
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,919
Speaker 12: of the alleged crime. A meme is something that goes

815
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 12: viral and everybody sees it. So there's this fantasy of

816
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 12: being famous, like being some kind.

817
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: Of a hero. The reference to the bulge. I take

818
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 1: all of this seriously. None of it is a joke.

819
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 12: The bulge is getting an erection while you are shooting somebody.

820
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 12: If he were my patient, I would ask him What

821
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 12: is sexually exciting about shooting somebody and whizzing the bullet

822
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 12: over a crowd of family and children. Is it that

823
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 12: sadism is exciting? Having power over people is exciting. I'd

824
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 12: want to try to get to the root of that,

825
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 12: to understand this guy's mind.

826
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,240
Speaker 1: You know what, There's so much happening in this case.

827
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 2: You remember the old guy at the get go that

828
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 2: claims he was responsible for the shooting.

829
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 1: I did it. I did it, raising both hands.

830
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: Now, saying that he was just trying to give the

831
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 2: real shooter a chance to get away. Okay, listen to

832
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 2: what the alleged sheeter says about that.

833
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: I thought they caught the person.

834
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 15: No, they grabbed some crazy old dude that interrogated someone

835
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 15: in similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle

836
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 15: from my drop points shortly after, but most of that

837
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 15: side of town got locked down. It's quiet, almost enough

838
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 15: to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering why why

839
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 15: did I do it?

840
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 6: Yeah?

841
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 15: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be

842
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 15: negotiated out. If I am able to grab my rifle unseen,

843
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 15: I will have left no evidence going to attempt to

844
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 15: retrieve it again. Hopefully they have moved on. I haven't

845
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 15: seen anything about them finding it.

846
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: How long have you been planning this? A bit over

847
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: a week, I believe so.

848
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 2: Much for the insanity defense. He had this thing planned

849
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 2: out cold. But my point is George Zen, the one

850
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 2: that threw investigators off at the beginning, claiming he did it.

851
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:41,720
Speaker 1: He was arrested.

852
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 2: Now everybody's trashing the FBI director for arresting him.

853
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 1: He said he did it. Well, there's a sad sat

854
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: right there.

855
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: Okay, bombshell Harmania Rodriguez. George Zen has caught a few

856
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 2: charges himself, hasn't he.

857
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 9: Yeah, this has been another incredible part of the story.

858
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 9: As he said, right after the shooting, this man was

859
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 9: film saying I shot him.

860
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: I shot him.

861
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 9: Now, apparently he has told police that he wanted to

862
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 9: give the actual shooter time to get away. We have

863
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 9: learned that he is someone who has previously caused trouble

864
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 9: in the area, and he's now.

865
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: Charged with child pornography. That just tribled off your tongue.

866
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: Did you just say child pornogracy? Correct?

867
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,720
Speaker 9: After he was taken into custody right after this shooting.

868
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 9: Days later, he has been charged with this crime.

869
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 13: So, mister Robinson, you have a right to an attorney.

870
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 13: If you cannot afford one, the court can appoint in

871
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 13: turning to represent you. I have reviewed your declaration of

872
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 13: financial status and find that you are indigent. I'm provisually

873
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 13: provisionally appointing a rule A qualified attorney to represent you

874
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 13: on your case, mister Robinson, along with their filing of

875
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 13: their appearance of counsel. The assigned attorneys must file declarations

876
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 13: with the court to outline their qualifications under Rule eight

877
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 13: and Rule eight C. I'm sorry under Rule eight B

878
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 13: and Rule eight C for council appointment in a case

879
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 13: where death may be a sentencing option.

880
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 2: When the photo of the shooter was released disseminated to

881
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 2: the public, the server at the restaurant was certain that

882
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 2: was the same person that eight at the Mom and

883
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 2: Pop the night of the shootings, and it was immediately

884
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 2: turned over to the FBI. The restaurant owner and two

885
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 2: employees were questioned by federal agents. Digits of the credit

886
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 2: card used to pay for this steakfest were handed over

887
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 2: to the FBI. So, a thirty one year old married

888
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:47,479
Speaker 2: father of two gunned down dead at the Utah Valley

889
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 2: University and he's having a steak dinner. Robinson now facing

890
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: seven felony charges of aggravated murder, discharge of a firearm

891
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 2: causing serious body injury, obstruction of justice to council witness, tampering,

892
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 2: and commission of a violent fence in the presence of

893
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 2: a child. Robin's behind bars awaiting trial. He could face

894
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 2: the death penalty by firing squad if convicted. Utah is

895
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 2: one of the five states that still allowed the firing squad.

896
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds.

897
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 2: Nancy Gray signing off goodbye friends,