WEBVTT - 010624 The Police Shooting of Niani Finlayson (Part 1) 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.040 Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.800 welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:09.760 mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I am 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:10.880 your host, Ramses Job. 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:12.399 He is job. 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:14.640 My name is Q. 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:20.200 But Ramses's voice is awesome, dude, I just need to 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:24.840 point that out. Well, it's velvety, smooth. Well, the feeling 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:25.400 is mutual. 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:30.240 Happy to share the stage with you, qboard and happy 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:32.479 to share some time with you, our listener. We appreciate 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:35.680 this investment of your time. We have a lot for 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:37.519 you to stick around for, so please do. We are 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:46.839 going to be discussing a recently released video from a 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:49.440 California woman who lost her life at the hands of police. 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.760 It's been circulating online, so you may have seen it. 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.040 If not, we will explain everything to you. But along. 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:58.400 The short of the story is that the woman called 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:01.960 the police she could get some support to get a 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:06.720 man out of her house. She got a knife from 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.040 the kitchen I believe, to like protect herself and her 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:12.360 daughter from what she thought was an abusive man. And 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:14.040 then the police showed up and then they killed her 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.080 in front of her daughter. And so we're going to 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:22.880 talk about that because whenever black women die, you know, 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.319 it's a story, but we are going to do our 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:27.400 best to bring the human element to it, so please 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:29.200 stick around for that. We're also going to be spending 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:33.600 some time talking about a letter that we received from 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:36.480 a longtime listener of the show, Philip C. Shout out 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:38.600 to Phillips C. He's a person that keeps us on 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:43.560 our toes and he pointed out what he believed to 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:48.040 be some holes in our conversation last week about empathy 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.720 and human nature. And you know, we use the monopoly 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:55.800 example to help illustrate some points, and so we're going 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:57.640 to be speaking to some of those holes that he 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.240 pointed out for us, but first and informed most like we 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:05.800 always do at this time, let's discuss them. Any excellence, 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.400 shall we? We shall qu Why don't you knock this 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:10.120 onever a any excellence this week? 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:14.040 Brought to us by Actively Black There is greatness in 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:18.320 our DNA. This is from Black Business dot Com Sarah Bond. 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.440 Sarah Bond, a former corporate vice president of Xbox, is 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:25.720 now president of the Brand making history for Microsoft and 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.880 the gaming industry. The graduate of Yale and Harvard Business 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:33.280 School also held senior roles at T Mobile. Xbox, at 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.040 division of Microsoft, generates about sixteen billion dollars every year 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.560 in annual revenue, and Sarah has been pivotal in helping 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.639 the company become and remain successful. In her former role 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:47.120 as VP, she led the Xbox division dedicated to building 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:51.079 and commercializing products and services for game creators and partners. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.919 She worked with thousands of developers partners to bring games 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:59.760 players on console, PC, mobile, and the cloud, and was 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:04.280 strumental in directing strategy, policy, mergers and acquisitions, and integration. 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.480 Out and her new role as President of Xbox, Sarah 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.320 will be in charge of all software and hardware platforms, 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:15.000 which will include the redesign disc list excuse me, which 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:18.880 will include the redesigned disc list, Xbox Series X to 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.519 be released in twenty twenty four, and the next gen 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:25.360 hybrid Xbox Console in twenty twenty eight. She will also 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:30.160 oversee player and creator experiences, platform engineering, strategy, business planning, 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:34.400 data and analytics, and business development. Sarah currently sits on 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:36.880 the Board of Counselors at the USC School of Cinematic 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.640 Arts and the Board of Directors at the Entertainment Software 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:45.280 Association ZUARA, the leading subscription management platform and Chegg, a 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:51.040 leading student first connected learning platform. To say that she's 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.840 thriving in a space that wasn't built for her will 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:54.720 be an understatement. 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.680 Yeah, let's help them. People that came after Misgay don't 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:02.200 come after her. Let's hold fingers crossed. All right? So, 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.720 as mentioned, we are going to spend some time talking 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:10.960 about this story from ABC News. Let me just get 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.800 right into it. We'll start. So I'm going to tell 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:21.680 you a story that starts at the end and goes backwards. 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.760 Just thought of that NAS song Rewind. It's a bit 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:29.840 of story backwards. It starts at the ending, so that'll 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:31.360 make sense. In just a second, I'm going to read 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.240 from ABC News body camera footage released in police shooting 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:36.600 a woman who called nine to one one for alleged 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:41.400 domestic incident. The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department released body 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:43.880 camera footage on Friday of a deputy involved shooting of 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.160 a twenty seven year old woman after they entered her 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.599 home responding to a domestic violence call that she made. 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:52.920 Nanni Finlayson was allegedly shot and killed in her home. 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:54.480 I don't like that word allegedly because I saw her 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:59.480 get shot, allegedly shot and killed in her home in Lancaster, California, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.040 after an officer fired four shots at her on December fourth. 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.679 The LASD said she called the police because she claimed 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:08.960 that her boyfriend would not leave her alone. According to 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.760 an LASD statement, In the nine one one call made 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:16.880 by Finlayson for police to assist her, audio of which 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:21.040 was released by LASD, Finlayson can be heard yelling for 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.960 someone to get their hands off her. She told the 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.800 dispatcher she needed assistance getting a man out of her home. 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:30.920 Three deputies arrived on the scene. In the body camera footage, 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:34.000 yelling could be heard coming from inside the apartment. After 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:37.080 police tried to kick the door down, Finlayson answered the 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:39.000 door and appeared to have a knife in one hand, 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:42.839 according to the body camera footage. In the body camera video, 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:47.600 Finlayson said, I'm going to stab him and Leysen then 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:50.560 disappeared off camera as she left the doorway and went 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.720 back into her home. At this point, deputies had their 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:55.919 guns drawn. Deputies followed Findlayson into the home, where she 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:59.360 proceeded to yell at who Hall says is her ex 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.600 boyfriend to leave, and Layson's daughter could also be seen 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:05.400 on camera saying he pushed me or he punched me. 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:10.479 I think she said he pushed me. Finlayson then grabbed 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.960 the alleged A strange boyfriend with one hand as the 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:17.320 knife was in her other hand. Deputy Tie Shelton then 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:19.800 fired at Findlayson four times, causing her to drop to 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.880 the ground. No. No, the alleged ex boyfriend yelled at 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:26.400 police after the shooting, Why did you shoot? Finlayson's daughter 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:35.960 also witnessed the shooting. Yeah, so this video is up 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.279 on our social media. It's at Civic Sipher. You're welcome 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:46.600 to check that out. I there's a warning there. It 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:48.680 says trigger warning. So you are going to witness a 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:51.919 human being losing their life if you're sensitive to that 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.280 type of content, like we both are here. Q hasn't 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:55.480 seen this video yet, right. 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:58.520 No, I saw a trigger warning, knew what was coming 0:06:58.600 --> 0:06:59.000 after that. 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.000 So yeah, so we take turns. You know, we talked 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.520 about this, But if you are sensitive to that sort 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.400 of thing, then I don't blame you for not checking 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.640 it out. We don't want anybody to be desensitized to 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.760 what we consider to be anti black violence. We don't 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:22.240 want that to become normal, and on this show we 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:27.120 show a lot of anti black violence. We have to 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.560 process that. And if you're one such individual who does 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:31.600 that as well, we're not mad at you. But for 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.480 everyone else, again, it's there to check out. But I'm 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:38.000 going to try to explain it for those who may not. 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.840 I've seen it. So what happens is, again we start 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.800 coming to a door, so the body camera footage picks up, 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:49.680 and then as the article mentions, there's yelling going on 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:57.360 inside the house, as is typical with domestic disputes. My understanding, 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.480 based on what I was in the video, is that 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:13.080 Nannie wanted her boyfriend to leave, and he felt like 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:18.200 he was going to stick around and plead his case 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.960 of why he should be able to stay. If I 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:26.640 was guessing, the pushing the daughter thing was probably the 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.640 result of a physical altercation between the two of them. 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.840 The man did not appear to be engaging in any 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.000 sort of violent behavior. He was sitting down, he was, 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:37.000 you know whatever. But of course this is where the 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.839 video picks up. But you could very easily see that 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.320 if a man was violent, pushing and punching kids and stuff, 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:43.680 that he's not going to stick around for the police. 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:45.400 I don't think, you know, the man seemed to be 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:51.280 reasonably coherent, and so this is this is just deduction. 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:57.440 But I feel like my powers of deduction do not 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:01.360 come with life and death, you know, consequences, and the 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.640 police is due and so if I'm able to deduce this, 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:05.439 I would imagine that an officer would be able to 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:07.920 deduce this as well, because the stakes are a lot higher. 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.400 It should be able to respond to this. But this 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:15.400 is why I'm telling you this way. Anyway, So the 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:18.800 police start kicking in the door, and the officer whose 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:20.920 camera were watching this is the man who ended up 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:27.240 shooting this woman, he asked the officer in front. This 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:29.760 is a female officer. He asked the female officer, Hey, 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:32.240 let me have your taser. She takes the taser out 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:32.720 and hands. 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.439 It to him. 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:38.439 As they're trying to kick open the door. The female 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.120 officers trying to kick open the door. The body camera. 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.040 The officer with the body camera that we're seeing that 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:49.080 ends up shooting this woman. He's watching the female officer 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.200 kick the door in the door doesn't get kicked in 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.120 and Leani ends up opening the door. 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.560 Question, do they attempt to knock on the door first, 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.760 or do they go drive right into trying to take 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:03.120 the door. 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.240 I don't remember. I don't remember, but for the sake 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.400 of argument, will say that they knocked first, or they 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.679 announced their presence or something. We'll we'll just say that. 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:16.320 I'm not sure. I don't remember this part. But anyway, 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.120 she opens the door. Leanni opens the door, and she's 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:23.480 holding a knife right and again immediately when I see this, 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.600 my powers of deduction says, Okay, she called the police. 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.880 She grabbed this knife to protect herself from a man 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:36.640 with testosterone and strength. She's protecting herself and her daughter 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.760 and her home perhaps from this man who will not leave. 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.040 This is why she called the police in the first place. 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:47.080 And she's agitated, and this is a tense situation, so 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.920 she opens the door. She's like, yo, she's already mad. 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:53.760 You know, imagine if somebody had pushed your daughter or 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.840 armed your child or whatever. You know, it's a tense situation. 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.520 You know. This is why officers in theory would come 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.440 in and defeat situations, or they would have the experts 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:06.760 on the scene. If that police budget was divested in, 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:11.320 different areas were invested into that were more dedicated to 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:17.360 dealing with, you know, diffusing situations. Who knows, man, But anyway, 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.640 at this point, the officer drops the taser and pulls 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:27.760 out his gun because obviously it's time for somebody to die. 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.080 And then, based on what I see, which is what 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:34.360 he saw, Nanni walks into the corner of the living 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:38.000 room and then her boyfriend is on the other side 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.800 of the living room, right, and she's trying to tell 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:47.040 the officers what he did. He did this, he did that, 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.520 you know whatever, And and she has the knife. Let's say, 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.440 the knife's in her right hand. She's pointing at him 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:58.040 with her left hand right and as she's agitated and 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.440 explaining and shouting like this is what this man is 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:04.560 done that the knife is not raised, it's lowered to 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.480 her side, and she's pointing with her left hand. This 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:09.800 is the way I remember it. Again, you're welcome to 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.720 watch the video and draw your own conclusions. But she's 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.880 kind of walking and motioning, and she's communicating not just 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:17.560 with her words but with her body. And she takes 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:22.120 a step toward him. Again, he's super far away. The 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.880 knife's not raised, it's not a tack posture, nothing like that. 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:27.679 But once she's like explaining, and you know, when you're 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.760 walking and you're animated, just kind of making your point 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.800 and she kind of like does a gesture and then 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:37.120 immediately bam and she just falls. That was the end 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:44.640 of her story. So what I saw was a woman 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:47.200 calling the police for help and the police coming and 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.439 killing her. She had done her best to protect herself 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:53.600 up until that point. And those people are going to say, well, 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.480 she had a knife. There's gonna be people who say, well, 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.560 she should have. Oh, by the way, after he shot her, 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.760 he said drop the weapon. You can hear him saying 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.760 drop the weapon after she's already gone into the ground. 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.240 So anyway, there are people say, well, she had a knife, 0:13:11.559 --> 0:13:15.480 what was the officer supposed to do? The officers there there, 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:17.400 they have to protect him too, nobody should be harmed, 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:19.640 blah blah blah. Right, And these are arguments that people who, 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:22.160 let's be honest, just want to protect the police. These 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:26.840 are arguments that these people will make. Okay, But any 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.600 reasonable person would see that that response and say, well, 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.080 these people clearly did not show up to diffuse anything. Well, 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.719 at least this one officer did. They did not show 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:37.840 up to diffuse anything. 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:40.320 I mean from what you described. It sounded That's why 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.439 I asked about them knocking on the door, Like even 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.480 the article makes it seem like they arrived and then 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:46.880 try to kick the door down. 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:51.840 Yeah. So so with that in mind, if they did 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:55.200 not arrive there to diffuse anything, that wasn't the first step, 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.560 that wasn't like hey, who wha hey, everybody calmed down. 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.600 You didn't hear anything like that, certainly not from this officer. 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:02.360 As soon as soon as he walked in the house, 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.080 that taser was gone and a real gun was out. Now, 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:06.199 remember she has a knife. 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:13.840 Okay, you can respond to like a knife with a 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:20.680 gun a lot quicker than what am I trying to say. 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:23.720 You have time. It's not like she's pointing a gun 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.600 at him and there's a split second. She has a knife, right, 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:29.360 And these are things that again, she opened the door 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:30.560 with a knife. Before they walked in the house, they 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.160 knew that's what she had. There was no gun. She said, 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:34.520 this is why I got the knif I'm going to 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:36.200 stab him because he tried to push my daughter blah 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.120 blah blah. And sure that you could make the argument 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.200 that that's a reasonable threat, but also you can make 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:44.720 the argument that these officers are not trained to understand 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.600 that an intense moment like that, when people say things 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.560 out of frustration, out of anger, because they feel violated 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.120 and they've called you to help them, that people might 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.520 say things and these aren't, in and of themselves credible 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:01.400 threats and they should not be tr treated as such. Right, 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:03.160 and a person like me looking at this with a 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.320 degree of grace, understanding that this is a tency. This 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.480 is not a murderous woman doesn't walk around all the 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:11.880 time with knives talking about it. She's gonna stab people. 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:16.119 There's something that happened that needs to be diffused. But officers, 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.640 remember we always say to a man with a hammer, 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:23.760 all the world is a nail. Right now, all that 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.560 being said, remember I said, I'm gonna tell the story 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:32.480 that starts backwards. So even if a person wanted to 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.800 make that argument, well, what was the officer supposed to do? 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:40.720 On and on and on? Right, this is the same 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:48.320 officer that killed another black man in twenty twenty, got 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.760 his job back, kept it pushing everything's cool, and now 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.000 he's taking another black life. All right, So I'm gonna 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.360 read this story to you. This comes from the Daily Beast. 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.200 I had to go back to June of twenty twenty 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.960 to get this article. Beauties claim they killed the black 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.720 man in his home when he tried to grab a gun. 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:10.320 His family says otherwise. A Los Angeles man was fatally 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.440 shot in his home by deputies Thursday morning in a 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.920 tragic domestic dispute gone wrong. His family, however, insists the 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.080 tragic incident could have been avoided if authorities didn't prematurely 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:24.000 pull the trigger. Michael Blue Thomas, aged sixty two, was 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.760 killed in his living room in the early hours on 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:30.240 Thursday after Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department deputies responded to 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.760 a domestic dispute call, a spokesperson told The Daily Beast. 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.600 But while authorities claimed Thomas was shot after reaching for 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:41.320 one of the deputy's guns, his fiancee and attorney insist 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:45.480 the opposite, that he was turning away. Quote. They broke 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:50.720 the front down and they grabbed mister Thomas immediately. Bradley Gage, 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.160 the family's attorney, told The Daily Beast on Friday, as 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.840 they were holding him, they hurt him by twisting his 0:16:57.000 --> 0:17:00.680 arm at that point because he was uncomfortable. Well, mister 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:03.960 Thomas tried to move and one deputy just stepped back 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:08.280 and shot him. He was murdered without justification. It was 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.600 one hundred percent avoidable. Now, because we're journalists, we have 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:14.560 to say the other half of the story. According to 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:19.400 the Sheriff's Department, deputies responded to a domestic domestic violence 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.440 in progress call. During the altercation, the suspect reached down 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.359 and attempted to gain control of one of the deputy's firearms. 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.480 It was at that time when a deputy involved shooting occurred. 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:33.560 And now let's go back to the family. The claim 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.159 that he reached for a gun is completely false, Gauge added, 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:40.720 noting that the incident completely defies the Fourth Amendment quote. 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.359 He was disabled, He had problems with his hands. Remember 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:46.720 he's sixty two. He had problems with his hands. It 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.000 would have been painful for him to try to grab 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:54.200 a gun. Now. When the shooting was first reported, Kimberly 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:57.440 also said that Thomas never tried to grab one of 0:17:57.480 --> 0:17:59.960 the deputy's guns. I heard Michael say, I have a 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:02.120 right not to let you in the house. She said, 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.440 it's already said. Thomas was taken to a local hospital, 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:11.560 where he was pronounced dead. No deputies were injured. Okay, 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:17.159 so I've been doing some talking to you. Give us 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.919 insight into your mind. 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:26.879 Forgive me if I'm if my voice is low, because 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:34.119 it's just it's really hard to I have the necessary 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:41.240 vocal inflection or vocal performance, if you will, when you're 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:45.240 sick to your stomach about something literally sick to my 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:50.840 stomach and having a hard time doing my job. Yeah, 0:18:54.520 --> 0:19:03.280 if you're black in this country and afraid or in danger, 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:10.520 you have to actively ask yourself in that moment, is 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:13.679 this thing that I'm afraid of or the situation that 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:19.080 has put me in danger going to kill me? Because 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:26.200 if not calling for help might and that is an 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:33.159 impossible position to have to be in, right, and the 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:37.280 fear is very very real. Ramaes and I off air 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.000 often struggle with the idea of what we do here. 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:41.360 Right. 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.639 Is there going to be fatigue from our listeners hearing 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.040 about us being the victims because people will say we're 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:50.640 playing the victim card, or we're playing the race card, 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.439 or as if we would choose to be in this 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:56.160 position so that we could feel this way and talk 0:19:56.200 --> 0:20:00.320 to you guys about it. Every week. We wish we 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:04.639 didn't have a new story like this all the time 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:08.240 every week, and we have multiple We can't. We don't 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.560 have enough time or enough show to talk about all 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:13.520 of the incidents that are like this. 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.240 Real quick, real quick, we're not talking. We have to 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:18.160 push to next week just because we don't have time. 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:20.960 The woman who the officer left her on the floor 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:24.080 of the police car upside down. We can't talk about 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:27.359 Cloudinge Gay, We can't talk about I mean, we have 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:29.119 a whole inbox full of stories that we're not even 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:30.800 getting to this week because we can't. 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:36.280 But this woman was afraid. She made a decision to 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:40.320 try to protect herself, but she called you for help, 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:47.200 the idea that you show up and in this woman's 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:55.960 story for what a lot of our detractors and the officers, 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.880 perpetual defenders would call fear. 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:05.639 In front of her daughter. So there's compound trauma that 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.640 continues to affect. 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:17.199 We are always on edge at best, afraid at worst. 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:25.640 Every day the traffic light freeway, you see a law 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:29.800 enforcement agency vehicle and it changes the way that you're 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:32.840 It changes your heart rate, changes the way that you drive, 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:39.080 It changes your body temperature constantly every day because a 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.960 simple interaction with law enforcement when you look like us 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:45.920 can render you deceased real quick. 0:21:45.920 --> 0:21:48.520 I want to jump in right here too. For people 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:54.720 that feel like blaming this woman, this black woman, right, 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:59.000 imagine the same scenario. You know what I'm gonna say, Q, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.080 But imagine the same scenario with let's call her a 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:04.760 twenty seven year old, blond haired, blue eyed, white woman. 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:07.120 Does she get shot and die? 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:10.480 Especially the man who was in the apartment, it's the 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:16.679 same description that's important to point out. To arrive and 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.120 her black boyfriend has her wielding a knife to protect 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:23.280 herself and her child. Do they kill her? And we 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:26.320 pause as if it's a rhetorical question, but it's not. 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.119 Because you don't know the actual outcome and you know 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:34.600 the answer to and that's not a victim mentality. Nor 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:36.840 do we lean into that. All of this stuff is 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:43.000 we tell stories that data support. Data supports this narrative. 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:46.119 It's not just these stories and us cherry picking things. 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:51.919 So we're going to keep following this story and we'll 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:52.880 let you know what we find.