1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Do you know another parent or expecting parent. Are you 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: wondering what can I give them as a gift. Don't 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: give them another onesie, don't give them a plastic toy 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: or god forbid, a toy gun that's just gonna end 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,159 Speaker 1: up in the garage. Give them something that matters, and 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: what matters the most is protecting their child. What do 7 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: you love most in the world your children? What will 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: you do to protect them anything. I sat down with 9 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: the smartest people I know in the world on matters 10 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: of child's safety, finding missing children, fighting back against predators, 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: and what I learned is so important, powerful and information 12 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: so critical. I want you to have it. I want 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: them to have it. Go to crime stops here dot 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: com for a five part series with action information that 15 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: you can use to change your life and protect your child. 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: Payments starting six. Give that as a gift, not an 17 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: other one. ZI. Find out how to protect your child 18 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: when you're out of the mall or the store, or 19 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: the grocery, in the parking lot at home. Find out 20 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: about protection regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online. I'd rather 21 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: have that any day of the week than a plastic 22 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 1: toy or God forbid a toy gun. Join Justice Nation, 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: Go to Crime stops here dot com. Goodbye friend. Crime 24 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. Where is Venus Steward? A mother 25 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: of two young children who were asleep in that home 26 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: when she walked out to the mail box to just 27 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: leave a letter for the mailman. Fanticia Lance joining us 28 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: tonight from Atlanta. I want everybody to really get the 29 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: layout of this home because the mail box was literally 30 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: at the end of the driveway. Right. Explain the scene 31 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: for us, right, Jean. And this is so scary because 32 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: how many people go out to their mailbox every day 33 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: to mail a leather The mailbox was just eighty feet 34 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: away from this house, and what the parents have told 35 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: us in the past is that the house next door 36 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: was nine ft away and the other house was just 37 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: twenty four ft away. And then there was this tarp 38 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: that was under the boat, and then there was also 39 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,799 Speaker 1: a pro pain tank that also had a footprint on it. 40 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: And police believe once they got to the scene that 41 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: it appeared as if Venus must have been struggling and 42 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: that she was kicking, and that she was pulled, and 43 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: that her footprint was able to leave a mark on 44 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: that pro pain Tank. You are hearing my fill in 45 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: guest host on HLN Jencosaurus as she is discussing the 46 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: disappearance of a beautiful young girl. I, Nancy Grace, this 47 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. What 48 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: happened in the case of this beautiful woman? Venus Stewart? 49 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 1: Joining me an all star line up, Stephen land Play 50 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: former detective Raymond judicha renowned Atlanta Da Vince attorney, Dr 51 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: Judith Joseph, New York psychiatrists and joining me right now. 52 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: Robin Willinski, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter and author 53 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: of Beautiful Life, The c S I behind the Casey 54 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: Anthony Trial. Robin, Let's start at the beginning. How did 55 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: Venus Stewart go missing? Well, Nancy, she was living with 56 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: her parents in West West Michigan. She's a mom of 57 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: two girls and she was going through a bitter divorce. 58 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: So instead of living with her estranged husband, she went 59 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: to live with her parents. And one morning, as you do, 60 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: you're in your pajamas and you go out to get 61 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: the mail, and she was never seen again. She went 62 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: to go get the mail and was never seen again. Listen, Naticia, 63 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: where was that pro pain tank. In relation to the 64 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: mailbox with the footprint, the pro pain tank is actually 65 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: closer to the home boat that is next to it 66 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: over to the right. The tarp rapper was underneath that boat. 67 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: The mailbox down the driveway ft away from that is 68 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: where Venus was apparently when she was taken by surprise 69 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: and then abducted. To Stephen Lampley, former detective, how do 70 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: you go missing? I remember this case so well what 71 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: had happened, and right now there's a major, major break 72 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: in the case, Stephen Lampley, How does a woman go 73 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: to the mailbox and never come back. She walked out 74 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: to the mailbox that anybody else would do, but of 75 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: course the perpetrator who was there waiting on her, snatched 76 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: her up and she disappeared from that point on forever. 77 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: Interesting that you said the part was waiting on her there. 78 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: That suggests a degree of planning. Raymond Judiche, you have 79 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: defended and I have prosecuted a million homicides. Alright, a million. 80 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: There's two choices. Either lamp Lay Stephen Lampley, detective is correct, 81 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: someone was waiting on her and it was a trap, 82 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,239 Speaker 1: or it was the crime of convenience. What about it, Raymond. 83 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: I think our detective is spot on realistically, and most 84 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: homicides there really are only a couple of options. It's 85 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: very rarely really stranger on stranger, unless it's an armed 86 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: robbery in the gas station that goes bad. It just 87 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. 88 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: This had all the ear marks of a of a 89 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: predator who was physically or or psychologically close to this 90 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: nice lady here in Saint Joseph County. Investigators have pounced 91 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: on every tip, in part because so few tips have 92 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: come in, fewer than six in ten days. Now police 93 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: are looking for this man. Two witnesses spotted him at 94 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: nearby Adam's Lake the night before Stewart disappeared. He was 95 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: wet and approached the witnesses for a cigarette. And right 96 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: now with this case, we have so few clues to 97 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: go on we're not going to discount anything. The lead 98 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: was strong enough that police conducted an all out search 99 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: of the lake using sonar equipment. The search turned up nothing, 100 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: but there are possibilities they have yet to excess. A 101 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: flooded area near the lake that was our friend and 102 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: shiver of twenty four hour News at w O O 103 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,799 Speaker 1: D t V eight and they have followed up so 104 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: many leads to Dr Judith Joseph, New York psychiatrists joining us. 105 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: That's got to be so hard for the victims family. 106 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: This particular victim is Venus Stewart, just absolutely a gorgeous 107 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: young girl, a mother who goes missing from her parents home. 108 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: So every time you get a lead, then you get 109 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: excited that you may even find your daughter or your 110 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: loved one alive, only to have ponds drained and lakes 111 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: dredged and you get a big fat zero. That's got 112 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: to destroy Venus's family every time it happens. Absolutely the 113 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: emotional roller coaster with an understatement here, getting your hopes 114 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: up and have some hushed over and over again. It's 115 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: just re traumatizing. His family is really living a nightmare 116 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: day in and day out, day in and day out. 117 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: Robin Willinskin, I want to talk about how Venus actually 118 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,239 Speaker 1: goes missing. Him Looking at a photo right now, she's 119 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: a mother of two children, and I'm looking at her 120 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: smiling and a family photo, and it reminds me so 121 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: much of in my little hometown of Macon, Georgia, and 122 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: my little United Methodist Church. They take directory photos like 123 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: every three or four years, okay, and it's the family 124 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: and they have this particular poo Jackie Howardstudios shaking her head. Yes, 125 00:07:53,600 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: long story short. They take this picture and we've got 126 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: it when we were growing up. My mom had it 127 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: an oil painting, so to speak, done instantly. Not they 128 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: kind of like brush over the photo, I think, and 129 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: they frame it and they give it to you. We 130 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: have it hanging up. Well, of course I did the 131 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: same thing with the children. But that's what this picture 132 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: looks like. And it just to think of her so happy. 133 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: And now over all this time, we've been dredging lakes 134 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: and searching ponds, and Wildren is looking for her, and 135 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: this family is being dragged along for the ride. Nancy, 136 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: she looks like the lady next door, smiley, happy. You 137 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: know what they say, a picture tells a thousand words. 138 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: She looks like she couldn't be happier. She has two daughters. 139 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: But you know what, there are police reports where she 140 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: accuses the husband of domestic violence, so clearly, you know, 141 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: she might have been happy that she was a mom 142 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: and her parents were alive and she you know, could 143 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: stay at their house and all of this, but there 144 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: was something very, very dad and troubling going on behind 145 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: the scenes in that home. Take a listen to this. 146 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: They are also trying to identify tire tracks from a 147 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: pickup spotted by a neighbor the morning of Stewart's disappearance. 148 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: The neighbor reported seeing the truck in a vacant lot 149 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: across from where Stewart disappeared. They have searched vehicles owned 150 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: by Stewart's estranged husband, Doug Stewart, in Virginia, and have 151 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 1: not said if there has been any connection. The estranged 152 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: husband is still considered a person of interest in the case. 153 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: Last night, he told News eight he is hoping that 154 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: his wife is found safely. Police say he has a 155 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: solid alibi, but say relations between him and his wife 156 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: have been contentious. Venus's father, Larry McComb, made the nine 157 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: one one call that morning. The vehicle that is here, 158 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: her kids are here, and she is gone okay or anything. Yeah, 159 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: we can't get over. Larry also called his wife, Teresa, 160 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: who was already at her restaurant job. Her co workers 161 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: tried to calm her down and they said, oh, she 162 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: probably just want to running block and I just looked 163 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: at everybody and said, get a grandpa. My daughter doesn't 164 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: do that stuff. And I said, I'm out of here, 165 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: right right off the door, shaking the hallway home. Venus 166 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: Stewart first vanished on an April morning. April goes to 167 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: the mailbox in her pajamas. We first featured it on 168 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: the Nancy Gray Show on Nachel Lynn and at that 169 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: time it was getting very little coverage. How could a 170 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: woman go missing at her own mailbox? Interr Pj's. Despite 171 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: many many searches, Venus's body had never been found until 172 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 1: a major break in the case. The mother of two 173 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: presumed dead. Many people looked at the husband. Why is 174 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: it always that you look at the husband, the lover, 175 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: the ex, the boyfriend first? Stephen Lampley, former detective weight 176 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: in why, as we heard earlier, it's usually a fact. 177 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: Remember that is more likely to be the suspect and 178 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,119 Speaker 1: a homicide, so and a lot of times worse relationships. 179 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: Ship says this one. There was a divorce pending, so 180 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: it's it's natural to first's eliminate the family member's first, 181 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: and then go from there. You know, police always had 182 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: an eye on Venus Stewart's strange husband, Doug Stewart, and 183 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. Raymond Judaic, a renowned defense attorney, 184 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. In the weeks 185 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: following Venus's disappearance, leaving behind two little children to be 186 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: raised without their mother, police take a look at the 187 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,959 Speaker 1: husband in the midst of an acrimonious divorce. They take 188 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 1: a look at Duck Stewart's truck and they find a receipt, 189 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: a receipt for items that included a tarp and a shovel. Okay, 190 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: ray help me out. Why is it when a wife 191 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 1: goes missing, the husband suddenly is out buying a tarp in, 192 00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: a shovel or garbage bags lots of them industrial size, 193 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: or he turns into a neat nt. Remember Scott Paterson 194 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: suddenly decided for the first time in his life to 195 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: mop and do the laundry right after Lacy goes missing. 196 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: I mean, really, what is it about you? Guys raised 197 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: you to chay, your wife or girlfriend goes missing and 198 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: suddenly you want to do the laundry. You know, when 199 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: you're under stress, one of the things you want to 200 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 1: do is clean the house, clean the garage. It happens 201 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: to me all the time when I'm getting ready for 202 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: a big trial. The stress makes me want to clean 203 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: the refrigerator even though I haven't done it. What you're 204 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: getting at is, this is the easiest way for law 205 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 1: enforcement to start to boveez. The detective said, either eliminate someone, 206 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: which is part of their job to eliminate suspects. And 207 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: they worked from the inner circle to the outer circle. 208 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: That's why the husband in this case is being called 209 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: a person of interest. Yeah, he's a person of interest. 210 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,079 Speaker 1: He may have some information that leads to the culprits 211 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: in this horrible crime. That's good, that's good detective work. 212 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: But I'll bet if I could have a couple of 213 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: years of going through this gentleman's records that he goes 214 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: to Ace Hardware all the time, and he goes to 215 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 1: the home depot and lows and he buys trash bags 216 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: and tarps to cover things when there's a hole in 217 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 1: the roof, and shovels to plant the values in the backyard. 218 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: These are common household supplies. But immediately because you buy 219 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 1: a bottle of bleach and and a trowel, all of 220 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: a sudden you're a murderer, bleaching the body and digging 221 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: a grave site, and that that's just too easy and 222 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: to trite to focus on those items. Let me throw 223 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: yourselfball Radu to Shay. How come he the husband did 224 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: not call nine one one. There is no handbook for 225 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: when your loved one goes missing. Everybody thinks there's a 226 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: pattern of behavior. Oh, you're gonna do this, then you're 227 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: gonna do that, Then you're gonna pray, Then you're gonna 228 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 1: have a rally, then you're gonna hunt for you know, 229 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: round up people to search through the woods. If you 230 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: do those things, it looks suspicious. When you don't do 231 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: those things, it looks suspicious. That's the problem that enforcement 232 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: tends to do is to focus on again these minor 233 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: behavioral issues. They're not relevant to evidence in a trial. 234 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: And in my opinion, it's a common behavior and that's 235 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 1: that's the defense argument is going to be ladies and 236 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: gentlemen a jury. There's twelve folks here, All twelve would 237 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: have a different response to this type of stress. Your 238 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: loved one going miss Hey, listen, listen to you to Jay, 239 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with a man finally doing 240 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: some housework for a big change. But why is it 241 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: always coincidentally within twenty four hours of your wife going missing. 242 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: The reason I said it was a softball, right, is 243 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: not only because you tuned up second verse same as 244 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: the first about play there's no playbook for grief. All right, fine, 245 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: but here's the easy answer. It's had such a bitter breakup. 246 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: She had gone to live with her parents, so according 247 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: to him, he wasn't on the spot. But then your 248 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: backup argument, I guess, could be no playbook. To Dr 249 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: ju Joseph, what you make of it, because you know, 250 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: I'm thinking Dr Joseph of a particular guy I tried, 251 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: who murdered his wife. That the fire trucks where you 252 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: remember this case read you to chay uh. The fire 253 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: trucks roared up to their mansion. They they were trying 254 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: to get into the home. They looked across the street. 255 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: There he was, the husband, all laid out on the 256 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: neighbor's front yard, all all romanesque. He might as well 257 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: have said, peel me a grape. And they talked to 258 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: him for fifteen minutes before he goes, oh, yeah, my 259 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: my wife's in the house, just to make sure she 260 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: was gonna die, you know, just don't tell him too soon. 261 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: She's in the house. So, you know, Dr Judith Joseph, 262 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: that guy aside, What is it about this no playbook 263 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: for grief defense that so many defense lawyers tune up 264 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: with because people in the jury box, they know that's 265 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: not normal till for instance, refused to pay your wife's 266 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: funeral bill, to never cry standing beside her dead body, 267 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: to try to never try to revive her. It's no 268 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: that is there may be no playbook, but that's just wrong, 269 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: doctor to Joseph, everyone does respond to gree differently, and 270 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: I think that what people try to use as the 271 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: sense is like the shops action right while I was 272 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: shot and shock I was not, you know, like so 273 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: I think that's probably where that comes from. And you 274 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: know what the other expert was mentioning earlier on the 275 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: on the call was that the majority of these cases 276 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: of homicide, female homicide are related to a partner and 277 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: an ex partner, and that's why people look at family members, 278 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: that's why people look at husbands, partners when someone is 279 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: or goes missing. So you know, it's true, everyone does 280 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: respond to grief in certain ways. However, people tend to 281 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: have a bit more emotion when they truly missed the 282 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: loves one that has gone missing. To Robin Willinsky, Crime 283 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, Now this guy, the husband, 284 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: Doug Stewart, has long, long maintained his innocence. But the 285 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: reality is there was never a body. Now, a lot 286 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: of people hold on Robin Ray Judice. A lot of 287 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: people believe if you don't have a body, you can't 288 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: prove the case. That is so not true. Remember the 289 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: high profile case in Atlanta that I did a tiny 290 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: bit of work on tiny, tiny bit where the kindergarten 291 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: teacher went missing. We all knew she was dead, and 292 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: bottom line, the district attorney I kept saying, you gotta 293 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: diet the boyfriend, You gotta diet the boyfriend. Mr Slaton, 294 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: He went no, No, we're gonna wait, We're gonna wait. 295 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: I might wait for what for Long story short, they 296 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: found her glass eyeball. A lot of people didn't even 297 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: know she had one fake I from some something that 298 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: happened to her as a child, and it led to 299 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: not her boyfriend but a thug that just happened to 300 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: see her jogging and abducted her and killed her, so 301 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: Ray Judic Chay. My point is that evidence does not 302 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: always lead you to the boyfriend, the ax or the husband. 303 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: I think one of the things you're outlining is, and 304 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 1: again we both remember fondly Mr Slayton, the District Attorney 305 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: of Fulton County here in Atlanta for years, but back 306 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: in the sixties and seventies and maybe into the eighties, 307 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: before the development and the and the really high use 308 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: of technology and science and computers and cell phones, I 309 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: think it was much harder to try a case from 310 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: the prosecution's perspective without the body, because the body led 311 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: backwards to the crime. I think one of the things 312 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: that defense lawyers have to convince our clients and in 313 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: these cases, and this is the hardest conversation you'll ever have, 314 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: you know, at the jail through three inches of plexiglass 315 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: talking to your client, is Hey, they can prosecute you 316 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: without the body. They've got the cell phone pings and 317 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 1: your A T M receipts, and there is video from 318 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: our videotape from across the streets or Alan's camera, and 319 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: the what used to be called circumstantial evidence, which was 320 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: more suspicious or or just speculative is now so air 321 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: tight that it really surrounds the defendant. And even without 322 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: the body, the state, if they do their job properly, 323 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: with good detective work and good forensic science, can really 324 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: make a noose or a circle around the defendant. And 325 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: a good closing argument with the right jury charges by 326 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: the state by the prosecution can educate a jury how 327 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: to convict without a body. It takes good lawyering, lawyer ing, 328 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: and it takes good science and investigative tools. And I 329 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: think those things are becoming more in vogue as we 330 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: get much more science and many more lawyers now younger 331 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: younger lawyers who are grown up with technology and are 332 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: much more fascile and using that in trials. We've learned 333 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: that police did find evidence after executing search warrants. They 334 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: found blood st agent Douglas Stewart's car. They also found 335 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: a receipt that Venus's father says was for a tarp 336 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: and a shovel. But the key piece of evidence is missing, 337 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: the woman who police say was abducted while collecting the mail. 338 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: Do you know another parent or expecting parent. Are you 339 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: wondering what can I give them as a gift? Don't 340 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 1: give them another onesie. Don't give them a plastic toy 341 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: or God forbid a toy gun that's just gonna end 342 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: up in the garage. Give them something that matters, and 343 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: what matters the most is protecting their child. What do 344 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: you love most in the world Your children? What will 345 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: you do to protect them anything. I sat down with 346 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: these smartest people I know in the world on matters 347 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: of child's safety, finding missing children, fighting back against predators, 348 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: and what I learned is so important, powerful and information 349 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: so critical. I want you to have it. I want 350 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: them to have it. Go to crime stops here dot 351 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: com for a five part series with action information that 352 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: you can use to change your life and protect your child. 353 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: Payment starting six. Give that as a gift, not another 354 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,479 Speaker 1: one Z. Find out how to protect your child when 355 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: you're out of the mall or the store, the grocery, 356 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: in the parking lot, at home. Find out about protection 357 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online. I'd rather have that 358 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 1: any day of the week than a plastic toy our 359 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: God forbid a toy gun. Join Justice Nation. Go to 360 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: crime stops here dot com Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 361 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: Welcome back, everybody. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 362 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Stephen Lampley, Raymond, Judy Chay, 363 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: Dr Judith Joseph, and Robin Willinsky with me. Robert Willinski, 364 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: it was just in the last days that there was 365 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: a major, major break in the case. What happened and 366 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: how does an Xbox factor into the discovery of Venus 367 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: Stewart's dead body. Well, Doug Stewart is behind bars at 368 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: for years and clearly he's bored to death, and so 369 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: he wants some favors. He wants to be able to 370 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: go to his parents funerals when they passed, and he 371 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: wants to play Xbox, of course, as you would. And 372 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: so the folks in the jail, they and the police, 373 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: they feel that there's an opening here that he's willing 374 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: to negotiate for favors and for goodies, and so they 375 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: agree to allow him to have a certain kind of 376 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: Xbox that's not connected to the Internet and it doesn't 377 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: involve violent games in exchange for him leading them to 378 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: where her body is. Marry Well, I've heard it all 379 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: to Stephen Lampley, former detective. A guy has been sitting 380 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: there all this time, sitting on the location of the 381 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:17,479 Speaker 1: body of his children's mother. This whole time he's sitting 382 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 1: there twiddling his thumbs, and now, after all this time, 383 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: he leads police to her body in exchange for an Xbox. 384 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: Stephen Lampley, Well, actually, you have to go back. In 385 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: the trial, he admitted on a daily basis, this man 386 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: played on his Xbox six to eight hours every day. 387 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: Uh so, I mean that maybe that's a borderline addiction 388 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: to the video game. But he sat there all this 389 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: time without the ability. So you know, hey, let's just 390 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: swop out. I'll take an Xbox and I'll tell you 391 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: where my life's take a Listen to this. Could you 392 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: kill Venus Star? Did not? Did you want to kill Nis? 393 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: You've meant for her to be dead? What was that? 394 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: Did you mean for Venus Stewart to be dead? No, 395 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: I did not want her to die. Ricky Spencer told 396 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: the pack to courtroom that even though he wore Dug 397 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: Stewart's clothes, slept in his bed and used his credit 398 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: cards to give his friend an alibi in Virginia for 399 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: his wife's murder, he kept hoping Stewart would change his mind. Okay, 400 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: d I was kind of shocked to hear that I 401 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: said what happened. He said that he called the Venis 402 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: his parents house in Michigan and said that he was 403 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: the male manhatan package for her, and he uh jumped 404 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: out and he said that there was a scream. She 405 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: scream once and that tried putting up a fight, but 406 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: he was able to. Uh too, he's getting that headlock 407 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: and uh a drop of blood came from her nose, 408 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: he says. After Stewart explained what happened, he hung up 409 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: because Stewart said he had to go barry Venus's body. 410 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: I told him, like, I don't tell me where she is, dude, 411 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: because I don't want to know a lot of people 412 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: that are going to know that I did any of 413 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: this is you me, on my lawyer and on my parents. 414 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: So you're hearing our friend at twenty four hour News 415 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: eight w O O D t V Danny Carlson, and 416 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: you're also hearing Ricky Spencer, the main witness for the prosecution, 417 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: So that that's quite the line to draw. Ray Judaica, 418 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: You've handled co defendants a lot of times where sure 419 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: you'll do a cover for the killer. You know he's 420 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: killed his wife, you know, he got information to her 421 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: that he had a pep a package was coming to her, 422 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 1: and then he waited for her to go outside to 423 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: do her till her nose bled. He knows she's dead, 424 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: but he goes but but, but, but don't tell me 425 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: where the body is. You know, I'm all in, but 426 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep my pinky toe out of this mess. 427 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: So he you know, he probably did a deal in 428 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: exchange for testimony. Oh absolutely, I'm sure his counsel got 429 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: some level of immunity candadively agreement. Usually how this is 430 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: done is not a promise by the district attorney the prosecutor, 431 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: but a if you cooperate and tell the truth under oath. 432 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: And that's true, right, If you cooperate and tell the 433 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 1: truth under oath, you get a deal. Stephen lamp Lay, 434 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: According to what what we're learning is that when he 435 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: subdued her at her mailbox, she was just unconscious. She 436 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: actually came to out in the woods. Stephen Lampley, former detective. 437 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: Can you imagine waking up all bloody in the woods 438 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: and your ex husband is standing over you about to 439 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: kill you a dispose of your body. What a gruesome 440 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: horrific reality for this mom venus work. Yeah, uh, we 441 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: now know that he parked across the street and with 442 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: the with the guys of coming out to get a package, 443 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: he abducted her and then took her. Of course, us 444 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: my understanding that the homicide scene was the actual burial side, 445 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: we're ironically, uh Stewart would back when he was fifteen 446 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: years older. This is private property, so uh as in 447 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: keeping with a lot of homicide team in the area. 448 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's good, but it had to be horrific 449 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: to for her to wake up and un now what's 450 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: going to happen? Terrible to Robert Wilenski, Crime online dot 451 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, So, this convicted murderer sitting behind bars 452 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: for killing his wife never tells anybody, even her parents, 453 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: even her children, where mommy is so she can have 454 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: a burial. But then they wave an xbox under his 455 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: nose and he goes, oh, sure, sure, I'll tell you where. Well, 456 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: there goes his chance of an appeal right there, because 457 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: he's saying where the body is. Only the killer would 458 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: know that. Sob Mallinsky, where was the body? Well, it 459 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: was in the location where he used to chop wood 460 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 1: as a teenager and believe this or not, he actually left, 461 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: uh to the homicide detectives say that he actually left 462 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: like two wood stumps to mark the body, Like was 463 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: he ever going to go back there? It sort of 464 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 1: leads you to think, like, what's his thinking. You're actually 465 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: marking the spot, you know, not with a grave not 466 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: with a grave stone, but with two pieces of wood. 467 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: I mean, was he going to return back to the scene? 468 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: Who knows? There's a level of arrogance, So nancy about 469 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: this guy where from behind bars In addition to this 470 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: whole xbox and him wanting goodies and getting out to 471 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: you know, to his parents funerals someday, he also offers 472 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: up to the homicide detectives, Um, you know, hey, use 473 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: me for a homicide school training. I can get you 474 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: some information from on the mind of a murderer. I'm 475 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: gonna you know, at all my secrets go as to 476 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: what I was thinking. To me, there's a level of 477 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: arrogance in this guy. Oh, you know, you need to 478 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: talk to me because to get into my mind, because 479 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: the mind of a murderer. Let's teach that class. Yeah, 480 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: let's teach that class. You know, what maybe HBO or 481 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: um Netflix might want him take a listen to this. 482 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: Venus and her two daughters, four and six, at the 483 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: time of her disappearance, had moved back home to her 484 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: parents house from Virginia. On that April morning, in Doug 485 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: Stewart abducted Venus as she walked to the mailbox. He 486 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: buried her body in a remote area he knew because 487 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: his father had a logging company and cut wood here. 488 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: Stewart had little trouble directing police to the spot where 489 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,479 Speaker 1: he buried his wife. A specific piece of evidence from 490 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: theinal case was this blue tarp um and um. He 491 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: had advised is that that was going to be inside 492 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: um the grave as well, and we located that um. 493 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: So that's what first led us to leave you up. 494 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: We're in the right spot here. We just have to 495 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: keep going. We're gonna find her. I can't understand my 496 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: mindset back then. It was it was almost like I 497 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: was on a mission in the dark of night. In 498 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: late April, Doug Stewart left Virginia and set off for 499 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: Michigan with a plan to set up his wife. He 500 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: would ambush her at her parents home. I did lie 501 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: in wait um she did come out. I did put 502 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: her in a choke maneuver. Um she passed out. Doug 503 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: tricked her into coming outside on that cold Monday morning, 504 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: called her disguised. His voice told her there was a 505 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: package waiting. She had no sooner stepped outside than Doug 506 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: grabbed her by the neck. I sat there for a minute, 507 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: maybe two, staring at my best friend passed out in 508 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: my lap. Um I uh, I didn't have a plan. 509 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: Although Doug says he had no plan, he had already 510 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: plotted her murder and found a plot in a very 511 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: remote field to bury her body. Did you know this property? 512 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,959 Speaker 1: Was it in your mind as a possibility? Yes, from 513 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: the very beginning. I I had come here the night before. Um, 514 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: I had plan this to be the spot, and that's 515 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: where Venus met her demise. You are hearing the Killer, 516 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: The Killer Doug Stewart on w w MT and their 517 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: exclusive interview at the grave, at the burial spot, I 518 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: wouldn't even call it a grave where this young mom 519 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: had been buried. And in the last days this horrific. 520 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: I don't even know the right word for this guy, 521 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: the husband, Doug Stewart, in exchange for an Xbox after 522 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: leaving this woman's children and her family hanging out there 523 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: in the wind, wondering where her body was all this time. 524 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: In exchange for an Xbox, he gives up her body. 525 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: It's so overwhelming. What led to the murder? Listen Venus 526 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: Stewart had a protection order against her husband and her family, 527 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: says one week before her disappearance, of court awarded her 528 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: full custody of the couple's two young children and demanded 529 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: the father pay child support. This is this is a 530 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: very complicated case and based because of the lack of 531 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: any any evidence that we have at the scene, we 532 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: don't have much to go on. Wow, you know, all 533 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: over a restraining order and child support to Raymond's Uda Cha, 534 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: renowned Atlanta defense lawyer raised Juda Cha, I've had many 535 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: a criminal lawyer, defense lawyer of course, who is used 536 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: to representing murderers of child molester's drug lord say you 537 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: know what, I'd rather represent a drug lord or a 538 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: piller then stick my hand in the middle of a 539 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: divorce case. It's like tearing apart to Rottweilers. Would you 540 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: agree or disagree? I totally agree, Uh absolutely, because first 541 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: of all, in these divorce cases nobody is rational. And 542 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: now perhaps one party is much more irrational than the other, 543 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: but there's very rarely one person rational and the other emotional, 544 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: and the other calm, cool and collected and just wants 545 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: to get it over with. I will also tell you 546 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: that if you go down to the Marshall's office or 547 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: the Sheriff's office and say would you rather serve a 548 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: warrant on a drug possession case or a domestic violence case? 549 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: Nine out of tenem are going to say, oh, just 550 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: give me the drug dealer. You know, they know the deal. 551 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: I mean divorce folks, they're not afraid of the nine 552 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: millimeter on the side of or my chaser. They're fighting 553 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: and they'll fight me too, So uh it is. I'd 554 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: rather just pick and pick twelve on a homicide than 555 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: pick twelve on a divorce case any day of the week. 556 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember this case read to Chay, 557 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: but another domestic homicide case. I handled these two incredibly 558 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: brilliant people, the man and the woman. I knew something 559 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: was up when the district attorney, he was like a 560 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: grandfather to me, Mr Slaton, call me down, he said, 561 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: I've got a friend. Turned out to be a partner 562 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 1: one of the biggest law firms in Atlanta. Daughter had 563 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: been found committed suicide. The dad didn't believe it. I'm like, my, my, 564 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 1: I'm on my way, but foots out the door. Well, 565 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: we got over there and she had ostensibly shot herself 566 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: in the bed naked, which you know, women do not 567 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: kill themselves naked, nor shoot themselves in the head typically. 568 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: We found blood spatter under the pillow. Okay, that was 569 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: before hen really spit out. Catchup in the O J 570 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: case and I'm like, okay, how did blood spatter get 571 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: under her pillow that she's sleeping on. Okay, this isn't right. 572 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 1: Long story short. A husband's shot and set it up 573 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: to look like suicide. But I can't remember. Ray you 574 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: to Chay hiding it outside some office part between the cars, 575 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,760 Speaker 1: waiting for his friends to come out of their jobs 576 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,560 Speaker 1: to hit him with a subpoena ducas take him to 577 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: get the letters. He had been writing them things like hey, 578 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: stay cool and don't shoot your wife, Uh Dave, Yeah, 579 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: And you know we had no money. I took my 580 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: little self to Kinko's when my own little money and 581 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: blew up every one of those letters. Life size and 582 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: put them all over the courtroom. My point is you 583 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: never know why. You know why he did it in 584 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: his little pea brain because his wife had been flirting 585 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: with somebody online. They had never even met. It was 586 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: just like, you know, talk online thirty minutes and pretend. 587 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just insane. And in this case, let 588 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: me bring it home. It's over child support in a 589 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: t R O ray. Really, it doesn't surprise me, Nancy. 590 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 1: There's I've handled stocking cases and I've gone to court 591 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: and I've looked at my client, who you know, has 592 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: written eight thousand emails or text message and let's don't 593 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: confuse anybody. You didn't handle them. You defended. Let's just 594 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: call it like at and I was paid to do 595 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: so handle handsomely. My point is, I get the court 596 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: and I say, now, wait a second. There's eight million 597 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: people in metro Atlanta and you sent eight thousand text 598 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: messages to this lady after she told you repeatedly take 599 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 1: a hike, go away, leave me alone. Don't move on man, 600 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: get on match dot com. There's lots of nice folks 601 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 1: out there, have a rational, reasonable, nice relationship that you 602 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: can stalk. Well, yes, that is true. Now, thanks right, well, look, 603 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 1: thanks behalf of all woman time. Thanks a lot, right, Hey, 604 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: you know what, we're making a lot of a very 605 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,720 Speaker 1: very serious situation here because it's just like Gallows humor, 606 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: because it's just too much to take in that you 607 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 1: would kill this gorgeous lady because you don't want to 608 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,320 Speaker 1: pay ch'all's support. I mean, you know what, let's listened 609 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: to the harsh reality listen. I batted her arms down. 610 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: She saw it coming, and I batted him down with 611 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:06,959 Speaker 1: my right hand, and I struck her with my left 612 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: and uh, I she didn't hit the ground before I 613 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: started apologizing and almost threw up. I. Uh, there was 614 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: so much blood it was. It was the worst scene 615 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: in my entire life. She didn't say anything. She collapsed 616 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,720 Speaker 1: down to the ground twenty seconds later, her eyes closed. 617 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 1: I didn't know what to do. I can't believe I 618 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: did what I did. I didn't know what to do. 619 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: I can't believe I did what I did well. Stephen 620 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,320 Speaker 1: lamp Lay as judges instruct juries all the time. The 621 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: perpetrator may immediately regret the deed, but that does not 622 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: negate the intent. At the time of the incident, he 623 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: had a perfect chance to turn back. Stephen Lampley. He 624 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: said he was in his truck looking down before he 625 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,800 Speaker 1: disposed of her body completely, buried her out in the 626 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: middle of a wooded area and put a stump on 627 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: top of the dirt. Stephen Lampley, he had her in 628 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 1: his truck. She was just unconscious, he said, I was 629 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: looking down at my best friend. That would have been 630 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: a perfect time to stop right there, Stephen Lampley. Why 631 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 1: do people go forward when they know what they're doing 632 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,280 Speaker 1: is wrong? Stephen, Well, he had an end of agenda, Nancy, 633 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 1: from the very from the very beginning of he wanted 634 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: her dead, and yeah, maybe there was a slight bit 635 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: of remorse, but the remorse was not going to get 636 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: him what he was seeking. So you know, you got 637 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: to go through with it at this point, and which 638 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 1: is exactly what he did. Well, Doug Stewart, he may 639 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: have had an agenda. Well, now he's got an Xbox 640 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: and a one way ticket straight to hell. Good riddance, 641 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: Doug Stewart. Nancy Gray's crime story signing off Goodbye Friend,