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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,

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Speaker 2: and speaker.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,

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Speaker 3: and course creator. We are two working parents who love

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Speaker 3: our careers and our families.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about

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Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.

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Speaker 2: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals.

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Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This

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Speaker 2: episode is airing in early July of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: I am going to be interviewing Jesse Humple, who is

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Speaker 2: the host of LinkedIn's podcast Hello Monday. She is also

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Speaker 2: a longtime tech and finance journalist and the author of

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Speaker 2: the memoir The Family Outing. Well, what of the things

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Speaker 2: we talked about in this kind of wide ranging conversation

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Speaker 2: is how people's jobs changed so much instead of the

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Speaker 2: career rules we need to think about given that we're

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Speaker 2: often doing very different things over any period of say

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Speaker 2: five to ten years. So I was thinking about this, Sarah,

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Speaker 2: what was your job like ten years ago and is

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Speaker 2: it anything like what you are doing now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so fascinating to think about. So let's see,

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Speaker 3: it's twenty twenty four ten years ago, it was twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 3: I was just working, not just but I was working straight,

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Speaker 3: full time hours clinically as a pediatric endocrinologist. At that point,

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Speaker 3: I hadn't even done anything in graduate medical education yet,

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Speaker 3: so I hadn't really taken on any kind of leadership things.

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Speaker 3: I was focused on. You know, I had my maternity

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Speaker 3: leave that year and then I came back. Since I

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Speaker 3: do have a ten year old that math checks out,

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Speaker 3: so it.

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Speaker 1: Was really different. I had no podcasts.

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Speaker 3: I did blog for fun and really enjoyed it, so

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Speaker 3: that was maybe a little harbinger of what was to come.

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Speaker 4: But I would say certainly some similarities.

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Speaker 3: My mondays today look very similar to my mondays back then,

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Speaker 3: for example, but I'm doing.

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Speaker 4: A much wider range of things and I find it

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Speaker 4: a lot of fun.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, no, I mean, we certainly were not podcasting

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Speaker 2: ten years ago. I was trying to remember how many

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Speaker 2: podcasts there even were ten years ago, as sort of

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Speaker 2: a the dawn of the podcast era. Perhaps I know

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Speaker 2: that a lot of the podcast that I became aware

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Speaker 2: of was more around twenty sixteen, twenty fifteen, I guess,

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Speaker 2: and then we of course started in twenty seventeen, so

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Speaker 2: we've been around for a long time.

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Speaker 1: The same it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, five years ago was pretty similar probably to what

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Speaker 2: I'm doing now, but ten years ago a little different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, life changes. Life changes a lot.

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Speaker 2: So Jesse and I talk about that and her various

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Speaker 2: career rules. We also spend a bit of time talking

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Speaker 2: about her family setup. She is in a two mom

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Speaker 2: family and so it's always a little different how people

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Speaker 2: make decisions about who does what when there aren't kind

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Speaker 2: of the assumed gender roles that you would have in

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Speaker 2: a couple where people were male and females. So we

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Speaker 2: talk a lot about that as well.

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Speaker 4: That's super interesting. I can't wait to hear that.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, let's go ahead and hear from Jesse. Well,

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Speaker 2: Sarah and I are delighted to welcome Jesse Hemple to

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Speaker 2: the program. Jesse, can you introduce yourself to our listeners?

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Speaker 5: Sure, my name is Jesse Hemple. I am Goodness, is

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Speaker 5: hard to explain exactly what I am because I am

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Speaker 5: a longtime journalist, but also I am a podcast host

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Speaker 5: of the podcast Hello Monday, which is a career podcast.

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Speaker 5: Plus I write memoir stuff about my family, so that's me.

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Speaker 2: That's awesome, And maybe you can talk a little bit

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Speaker 2: about your show for link shin Hello Monday, which is

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Speaker 2: an exploration of all things careers. I mean, what have

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Speaker 2: you guys been trying to do with that show exactly?

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Speaker 5: Well, so the show starts with this basic assumption, and

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Speaker 5: that is, whatever you know how to do right now,

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Speaker 5: the job that you have right now, whatever your title is,

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Speaker 5: it's probably not going to be the same job you

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Speaker 5: have in five years. We know that work is changing

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Speaker 5: so much. I mean, it's frankly kind of a cliche

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Speaker 5: to even say that, but you look even at what

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Speaker 5: AI has done to work in the last year, and

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Speaker 5: you know that across every industry, those shifts are things

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Speaker 5: that we're going to have to adapt to, but nobody

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Speaker 5: tells us exactly how. And so Hello Monday is meant

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Speaker 5: to be the optimistic playbook for you, putting you at

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Speaker 5: the center of this equation, because whatever your job title

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Speaker 5: is in five years, you have a set of skills,

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Speaker 5: a set of passions, and a sense of purpose that

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Speaker 5: all can be put to work right. They can put

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Speaker 5: to use in service of making sure that five years

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Speaker 5: from now you're doing work that you care more about,

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Speaker 5: and hopefully your paycheck is bigger too.

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Speaker 2: That's always a nice bonus, and it will need to

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Speaker 2: be given inflation and all.

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Speaker 5: That, but that's the truth.

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Speaker 2: So, I mean, you've talked to a lot of people,

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Speaker 2: and you sort of distill a lot of this career

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Speaker 2: advice down to a couple of you know, Jesse's rules

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Speaker 2: here and one of them that you guys shared with

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Speaker 2: me before this to define your values. Now, this sounds

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Speaker 2: a little bit like a graduation speech, So maybe you

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Speaker 2: can tell me practically what it means to define your

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Speaker 2: values as you are going about your job on Monday morning.

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Speaker 5: You're right, it does have that graduation speech nest to it, right,

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Speaker 5: But so Loven, we flounder through our careers and we

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Speaker 5: have to make sets of choices at various times. Do

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Speaker 5: I stay in this job or take that job, Do

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Speaker 5: I make a career pivot, or do I continue to

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Speaker 5: do this thing I'm doing? And it can feel a

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Speaker 5: little haphazard to think about how to make those choices.

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Speaker 5: And one thing that having a clear sense of your

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Speaker 5: values does is it gives you a framework or filter

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Speaker 5: for how to make the big choices and frankly the

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Speaker 5: little choices too. Their values change over the course of

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Speaker 5: your career. Right, But I know this is something that

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Speaker 5: no one told me when I was younger and I

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Speaker 5: was listening to those graduation speeches. It just seems like

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Speaker 5: people ahead of me they just had that stuff figured out.

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Speaker 5: And it was only in retrospect that I could look

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Speaker 5: back and say, oh, gosh, you know, when I was

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Speaker 5: twenty four, whatever it was, perhaps it was travel. In fact,

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Speaker 5: I know it was travel. Travel was so important to

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Speaker 5: me that must have been one of my values. So

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Speaker 5: if you can do that looking backward, then it becomes

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Speaker 5: a powerful thing to think about it a little more proactively,

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Speaker 5: to think, Okay, well let's look forward. What are the

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Speaker 5: things that matter to me most right now, and how

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Speaker 5: can knowing those in articulating those help me make good decisions?

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Speaker 5: Does that make sense, Laura?

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Speaker 1: It does?

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Speaker 2: It does well With that, though, then what does it

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Speaker 2: trust yourself, which I guess is Jesse's rule number two.

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Speaker 5: I like these Jesse's rules. I like your rebranding of them.

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Speaker 5: What you're talking about is like, so we've been going

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Speaker 5: as a podcast now for five years, which in podcast years,

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Speaker 5: I think that's like a century, because.

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Speaker 2: Podcast we've been on around since the Neanderthal Age of podcastings.

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Speaker 5: Which is like twenty eighteen, right, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So, as I was looking back over now close to

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Speaker 5: three hundred episodes, I realized that people kept giving the

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Speaker 5: same types of advice young people, old people, famous people,

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Speaker 5: not so famous people. And one thing that came up

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Speaker 5: over and over and over again was people would say,

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Speaker 5: you know, I just wish I had had more faith

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Speaker 5: than myself. If I had been able to listen to myself, well,

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Speaker 5: I would have known what to do in any given context.

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Speaker 5: And so that sort of leads me to this, let's

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Speaker 5: call it Jesse's rule number two because I like that, Laura,

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Speaker 5: which is that trusting yourself is like imperative, it's integral

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Speaker 5: to being able to manage your career.

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Speaker 2: Well, can you give me an example of when you

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Speaker 2: have had to trust yourself with your career?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Oh, let's go back to the moment when there's

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Speaker 5: always a moment when we go from thinking about trusting

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Speaker 5: ourselves as a that was a nice to have, good

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Speaker 5: thing to do, to actually having to make the decision

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Speaker 5: to live in the action for me. I had been

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Speaker 5: writing as a technology journalist for magazines very successfully. I

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Speaker 5: had been lucky enough that I hadn't had any headwinds

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Speaker 5: in my early writing career. I had been a star

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Speaker 5: writer at Fortune magazine for many, many years, and then

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Speaker 5: I had been recruited over to Conde Nast to become

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Speaker 5: a senior writer for Wired magazine and Laura, it is

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Speaker 5: impossible to understate how much I love tech. This was

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Speaker 5: a dream job for me. I loved Wired. I was

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Speaker 5: the only woman at my level at the magazine. Most

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Speaker 5: of my peers who loved technology as much as I

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Speaker 5: did at Wired were men, and that was part of

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Speaker 5: I think why I ran into some headwinds, but also

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Speaker 5: largely I just had a different perspective than the editor

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Speaker 5: in chief of the magazine. And I would pitch stories

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Speaker 5: and he would say that's not interesting, not that and

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Speaker 5: he would cut them. And I would pitch stories and

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Speaker 5: he would cut them. And finally I got a really

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Speaker 5: good interview, and I just knew that this particular interview

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Speaker 5: with this particular technologist, he had developed a virtual headset.

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Speaker 5: It was so cool. And this was twenty sixteen, when

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Speaker 5: the idea of putting this hokey piece of plastic on

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Speaker 5: your head and playing in virtual reality was even weirder

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Speaker 5: than it is right now. And frankly, it's still kind

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Speaker 5: of weird.

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Speaker 1: It's still kind of weird.

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Speaker 5: It's still kind of weird. And so I called up

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Speaker 5: the editor in chief and I said I've got this interview,

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Speaker 5: and get a call back from his deputy who says,

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Speaker 5: I'm so glad you got the interview. We're going to

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Speaker 5: take that interview and give it to someone else because

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Speaker 5: we don't think you're strong enough as a writer. And

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Speaker 5: I remember I was sitting in the baggage claim of

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Speaker 5: the Fort law Dale Airport. I was coming back from

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Speaker 5: having gone to visit this guy in person so I

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Speaker 5: could get his sign on for this story, and I

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Speaker 5: just started crying, and like not that sort of dainty

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Speaker 5: cry where you can just say that you have allergies

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Speaker 5: and hope nobody's looking, but like that gross cry that's

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Speaker 5: coming out your eyes and down your nose, where people

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Speaker 5: want to, like strangers want to sort of approach you

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Speaker 5: and ask if someone has died and what they can

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Speaker 5: do for you. And I remember it because I took

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Speaker 5: a picture of it on my iPhone because I knew

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Speaker 5: in that moment that I needed to choose to trust

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Speaker 5: myself and leave or trust the editor in chief's opinion

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Speaker 5: of me and continue to stay small. And that for

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Speaker 5: me was a pivotal trust yourself moment. And that was

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Speaker 5: also the moment that I decided it was time to

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Speaker 5: leave Wired, and it was what eventually got me to

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Speaker 5: hear LinkedIn awesome.

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Speaker 2: Well, on that note, we were going to take a

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Speaker 2: quick ad break and we'll be back with more from Jesse. Well,

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Speaker 2: I am back with Jesse Hemple, who is the host

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Speaker 2: of the LinkedIn podcast Hello Monday, sharing lots of career advice. So,

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Speaker 2: I mean another one of Jesse's rules, I forget what

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Speaker 2: number this is, but to.

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Speaker 1: Think long term.

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Speaker 2: And you know, you're telling a little bit about how

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Speaker 2: your career is a long thing. I mean, there's a

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Speaker 2: moments where you're crying in the Fort Lauderdale Airport. There's

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Speaker 2: also more triumphant moments too. But what does it even

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Speaker 2: mean to think long term given that we are switching

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Speaker 2: jobs so frequently, and you know, whatever you are doing

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Speaker 2: now may not be what you are doing in five years.

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Speaker 5: It's a great question. I think I'm going to tell

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Speaker 5: a story to explain what I mean by this went

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Speaker 5: to early on in my career. I felt like I

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Speaker 5: was failing if I didn't see my name sort of

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Speaker 5: on a byline in any given day. And I was working.

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Speaker 5: This is early again, So I was working at four magazine.

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Speaker 5: It's probably around thirty one thirty two. I had this

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Speaker 5: job that it allowed me to write big, long, ambitious

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Speaker 5: stories that I might work on for six weeks to

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Speaker 5: three months at a time, but also it expected me

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Speaker 5: to write shorter stories couple every week for the magazine,

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Speaker 5: and that kind of cadence that'll make you a little loopy, right.

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Speaker 5: You're like trying to go really really quickly, but also

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Speaker 5: you're trying to think really really broadly. And I was

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Speaker 5: kind of failing at doing both. I was just sort

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Speaker 5: of like my work was just a big old melange

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Speaker 5: of mediocrity. And a mentor pulled me aside and said,

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Speaker 5: you got to stop doing the little stuff entirely. I mean,

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Speaker 5: just phone it in like nobody will really notice. You

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Speaker 5: got to put all of your energy into those longer swings.

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Speaker 5: You got to make sure that if you write four

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Speaker 5: stories in a year, those stories have all of your

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Speaker 5: best energy and that made no sense to me early

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Speaker 5: in my career, because I measured the length of my

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Speaker 5: career at that point still in months and maybe sometimes

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Speaker 5: in years, but I put my focus there, and now,

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Speaker 5: looking back at it, of course, I can see that

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Speaker 5: those larger stories actually propelled me from big opportunity to

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Speaker 5: big opportunity. And then, much later on, Laura, I went

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Speaker 5: on to write a book, and I discovered this in

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Speaker 5: an even grander sense. Right, the timeline on a book, well,

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Speaker 5: you've written many of them. It happens in months and years,

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Speaker 5: not weeks and months, And putting all of your energy

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Speaker 5: into that big swing is actually the pivot that moves

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Speaker 5: your career forward. Gosh, I hear myself saying this, Laura,

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Speaker 5: and I want to turn the question on you, and

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Speaker 5: what have you learned about long term thinking from having

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Speaker 5: written books.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I agree with you, it's hard to keep

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Speaker 2: the cadence of doing both little things and big things,

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Speaker 2: and there have been times in my life when I

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Speaker 2: have quit the little things in order to put more

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Speaker 2: energy into the big things. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 2: I have also noticed that sometimes they playing around with

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Speaker 2: the little things that tips you off to what will

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Speaker 2: be interesting.

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Speaker 1: To people for the big things completely. Yeah, so it's

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Speaker 1: but then I've generally trying to.

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Speaker 2: Do both, right, you know, keep the little experiments going

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Speaker 2: so you know where to put your money for the big.

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Speaker 1: Bets, right.

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Speaker 5: But in doing both, you are still thinking long term. Right.

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Speaker 5: You may be doing little things and doing big things,

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Speaker 5: but here like you are doing them in service of

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Speaker 5: some broader goal that you have, that you have laid

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Speaker 5: out for yourself, that you understand. And that is what

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Speaker 5: I think when we're shortsighted, we forget to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thinking long term is a you know something

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Speaker 2: we talk about a lot on this podcast. We're really

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Speaker 2: big on, you know, big goals setting and things like that,

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Speaker 2: and one of our recent episodes we actually check in

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Speaker 2: on our annual goals to hold ourselves accountable for making

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Speaker 2: those happen. But I want to pivot a little bit

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Speaker 2: here because you know, you have written a book now

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Speaker 2: and it's called The Family Outing, which is a bit

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Speaker 2: of a play on words for your family background. And

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Speaker 2: just to talk about this a little bit here. A

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Speaker 2: lot of our listeners, as you might imagine, it's women,

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Speaker 2: it's women married to men. And when you are married

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Speaker 2: to a man, no matter what you do for a living,

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Speaker 2: there are certain assumptions that people wind up making about

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Speaker 2: who does what, how things are split, no matter what

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Speaker 2: the income is or whose preferences are for different things.

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Speaker 2: There's just a certain cultural story that you're working with.

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Speaker 2: Now you are married to a woman raising a family

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Speaker 2: with another woman. So I think a lot of our

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Speaker 2: listeners might just be curious about how one winds up

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Speaker 2: making decisions with that rubric. So even just for instance,

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Speaker 2: when you guys decided to start a family, like, how

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Speaker 2: did you talk through those decisions and make those decisions

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Speaker 2: on how this family was going to be formed?

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Speaker 5: I love that framework. You're asking me to think about

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Speaker 5: something a little differently than I've thought about it, and

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Speaker 5: I appreciate that, Laura. And I'm realizing now that one

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Speaker 5: thing about being a same gender or family is that

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Speaker 5: you can't rely on any of the implicit roles before

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Speaker 5: you revisit them. You actually have to decide at the

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Speaker 5: outset about how things aren't going to work. And I

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Speaker 5: know that when my wife and I had been together

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Speaker 5: for I think eight years when we decided to have children,

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Speaker 5: and so we'd already lived together long enough to understand

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Speaker 5: sort of how our household functioned, and we didn't need

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Speaker 5: to talk about much before we added the complexity of

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Speaker 5: more human beings. We could sort of just scape by

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Speaker 5: and figure it out. But when it was time to

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Speaker 5: do that, we actually sat down and talked about it.

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Speaker 5: I was still working as a journalist in and she

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Speaker 5: was a social worker, and we thought, well, one of

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Speaker 5: us is going to have to figure out how we

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Speaker 5: pay for this family, and one of us is going

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Speaker 5: to have to fit figure out the doctor's appointments and

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Speaker 5: what they have for lunch and the nitty gritty of

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Speaker 5: the like keeping them going. And that's not to say

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Speaker 5: that both of us wouldn't collaborate on both, but each

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Speaker 5: of us was going to be the final decision maker

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Speaker 5: on sort of one aspect of life. And so I

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Speaker 5: around that time left my job in media and moved

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Speaker 5: into a media job at a tech company. Laura that

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Speaker 5: was in large part to create some financial security for

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Speaker 5: our family. And then my wife she shows when our

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Speaker 5: second child was born, actually, and it was the middle

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Speaker 5: of the pandemic. And I know everybody has a pandemic story,

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Speaker 5: but Laura, we had a fifteen month old child. We

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Speaker 5: went into a pandemic and then we had another child

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Speaker 5: in the midst of a pandemic. We were tired human beings,

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Speaker 5: and my wife decided to stop out of the workforce

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Speaker 5: and be home with our children a little bit. And

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Speaker 5: when she introduced that she wanted to do this, it

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Speaker 5: was very confusing to me, Laura, because I I'm cut

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Speaker 5: from a certain cloth. I am a very of an

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Speaker 5: efficient person. I am very professionally ambitious. And I was like, Frances,

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Speaker 5: you don't have to do this. We can pay for

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Speaker 5: all this childcare. We're older parents. And she was like, yeah,

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Speaker 5: but but I want to do this. And I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 5: but you'll have to and she said, you don't get it.

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Speaker 5: The feminist movement was about creating opportunities for women to

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Speaker 5: make choices about how they spend their time. You need

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Speaker 5: to let me make my choices, even if they're different

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Speaker 5: than yours. It was a sort of like aha moment

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Speaker 5: for me, and it has been a wonderful collaboration that way,

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Speaker 5: because my wife is home now. She's home about seventy

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Speaker 5: percent of the time with our children, and I am

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Speaker 5: here much more often. You're seeing me in my podcast studio,

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Speaker 5: I'm in LinkedIn's offices and yet I feel my children

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Speaker 5: benefit so much from having that parental commitment that is

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Speaker 5: sort of about a same sex couple, right, Like I

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Speaker 5: like to joke around here, like, you know what I

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Speaker 5: have as a working mother, I have the benefit of

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Speaker 5: a stay at home mom for my kids, like most

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Speaker 5: people don't have that. But also, there are a lot

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Speaker 5: of same sex couples for whom those roles wouldn't fit

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Speaker 5: so perfectly. We got really lucky that way. And I

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Speaker 5: also know a lot of male friends who play much

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Speaker 5: larger caregiving roles in their homes. So at base, it's

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Speaker 5: different for every family. But one thing that is definitely

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Speaker 5: for sure certain about same sex families is they have

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Speaker 5: to talk about the roles. They can't take things for granted.

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Speaker 2: Well, even deciding like which, you know, having the children,

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Speaker 2: like carrying the children.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how was that decision?

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Speaker 5: Made I feel like the luckiest person in the world,

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Speaker 5: because frankly, we had two ovens, so we didn't have

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Speaker 5: to use both. And I knew for myself that I

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Speaker 5: never wanted to carry children. I'd always been clear on that.

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Speaker 5: I mean, quite frankly, Laura, I felt pretty clear that

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Speaker 5: I didn't want to have children, and I got to

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Speaker 5: children through this very intellectual exercise. We got to a

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Speaker 5: certain age my wife introduced that she really wanted to try.

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Speaker 5: I felt completely realized in my marriage, and I realized, like, well, okay,

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Speaker 5: my first obligation in life is to myself to be

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Speaker 5: a healthy, flourishing human. And once I've done that, my

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Speaker 5: next obligation in my life is to do what I

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Speaker 5: can to make sure that my wife flourishes. And so

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Speaker 5: if she says that we should have children, we should

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Speaker 5: have children. And I say that laughing at myself a

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Speaker 5: little bit now because it's so in my head, right,

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Speaker 5: And then I had these children, and now there's nothing

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Speaker 5: in my head about parenting. Right. It is a full

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Speaker 5: body experience, and it is the biggest for me. My

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Speaker 5: experience of it is that it is the biggest life

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Speaker 5: exercise and opportunity I could enmission for myself. But I

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Speaker 5: will just go back to say, because I bet some

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Speaker 5: of your listeners are in this situation, I would have

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Speaker 5: had a really great life without children too.

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Speaker 2: There are lots of ways one can build a life

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Speaker 2: and create meaning and all that, but certainly, you know,

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Speaker 2: for a lot of our listeners, both your and family

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Speaker 2: are part of it, And certainly that's one of the

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Speaker 2: things we're trying to do with this show, is that

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Speaker 2: show that you can have both, and for many women,

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Speaker 2: that is not going to look like having a stay

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Speaker 2: at home partner, right because that's for many reasons, right

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Speaker 2: that it's just not going to be the situation a

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Speaker 2: lot of people are going to wind up in. But

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Speaker 2: it also doesn't have to look like that, right that

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Speaker 2: there's so many different ways to make a family.

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Speaker 5: Well, what I really appreciate about your show, Laura, and

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Speaker 5: I am a listener, is that you invite me to

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Speaker 5: be the full breadth of who I am as a

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Speaker 5: really ambitious professional and as a mother, and is somebody

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Speaker 5: who wants to have a lot of time with my

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Speaker 5: children because I do. I really want to have a

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Speaker 5: lot of time with them, and who also wants to

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Speaker 5: have a lot of my own interests. And in the

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Speaker 5: larger culture, we've kind of arrived at this assumption that

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Speaker 5: you can have it all, but not at the same time,

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Speaker 5: and that's that's a fine assumption, but that hasn't been

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Speaker 5: my experience in life. I actually feel like I'm having

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Speaker 5: it all at the same time, and I don't feel

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Speaker 5: stressed out about that, and I don't want to be

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Speaker 5: embarrassed to say that out loud.

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Speaker 1: Life is good.

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Speaker 5: We can say it, but it does work, right, And

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Speaker 5: in my experience of it is that it does work.

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Speaker 5: And then I am not as stressed out shadow of

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Speaker 5: myself as I do that that I can live a

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Speaker 5: fully realized life. And I look at you, and I

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Speaker 5: look at Sarah, and each in your own ways you

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Speaker 5: also live by showing models of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I did want to talk about one potential source

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Speaker 2: of stress, which is something some of our listeners do

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Speaker 2: deal with, is you are the primary breadwinner for your

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Speaker 2: family of four, and I wonder how you think that

437
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 2: may have influenced some of the choices you have made

438
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 2: the long term thinking you have done, I mean even

439
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 2: something that's speculative like writing a memoir. Right, how did

440
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 2: you think about that in terms of well, I also

441
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 2: have to keep us housed, pay for people's bracest on

442
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 2: the line, whatever, right, Yeah.

443
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 5: Right, I decided that I was going to be able

444
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 5: to do both. But I will tell you, Laura, I've

445
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 5: had a writing practice since I was probably eight years old.

446
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 5: It's been really central in core to who I am.

447
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 5: But I would not have been able to give myself

448
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 5: permission to write a memoir if I hadn't sold it first,

449
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 5: you know, And this goes back to long term thinking.

450
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 5: I think sometimes people would to run at the dream

451
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 5: project without building the scaffolding that allows them to realize

452
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 5: the dream. And I started very early on writing for

453
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 5: financial magazines because financial magazines had really great mentors and editors,

454
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 5: but they also had bigger paychecks than newspapers or what

455
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 5: I really wanted to be writing for, like poetry scenes,

456
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 5: and that was by design. But I also knew that

457
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 5: if I cut my teeth writing three thousand to six

458
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 5: thousand word magazine stories about BlackBerry, which was probably a

459
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 5: company that barely anybody remembers today but seemed very important

460
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 5: in two thousand and seven, and Facebook and the CEOs

461
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 5: of these companies, I would learn important things about how

462
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 5: to write, about structure, about suspense, about why people read,

463
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 5: and eventually I would be able to take those lessons

464
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 5: and take the reputation that I had built and do

465
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 5: something that was more meaningful to me personally with that.

466
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 5: And that's kind of exactly what happened. And then I

467
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 5: will say I will just put a plug in for

468
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 5: like dumb luck timing right, and in April of twenty twenty,

469
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 5: when most people were looking around trying to figure out

470
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 5: how they were going to get some childcare so they

471
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 5: could figure out how to report into their new Zoom

472
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 5: offices and stay healthy during the pandemic, I had this

473
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 5: literary agent who just kept calling me Laura, and she

474
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 5: was like, my name is Suzanne Gluck with wme. She

475
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 5: was like a force, and she's like, now is the

476
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 5: perfect time for your dream project? And I was like, no,

477
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 5: it's not. I don't know if you notice, but I'm

478
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 5: currently living in over my wife's childhood bedroom in Tupelo, Mississippi.

479
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 5: Like now, it's not a good time, not a good time.

480
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 5: She was like, no, no, no, you don't understand. Every

481
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 5: single writer is really terrified right now, and they're going

482
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 5: to be terrified for a long time and tired and miserable.

483
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 5: How you're feeling, I understand everybody feels that way. Publishers

484
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 5: are also pretty scared right now because they need some

485
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 5: guarantee that they are going to have books to sell

486
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 5: in three years, and they got no deal flow, they

487
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 5: got no pitches coming in two months from now. They're

488
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 5: still going to be tired, but the writers will have

489
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 5: revived and they'll have lots of pitches coming in. So

490
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 5: get me something, Get me something this week. Just sit

491
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 5: down and write it. Just go into your bathroom, close

492
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 5: the door, and give yourself fifteen minutes and see what comes.

493
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 5: And I sent her this haggard little email. I was like,

494
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 5: I guess I could write a profile about a tech exact.

495
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 5: Then she shot me back an email and said, that's boring.

496
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 5: What have you got, Like, what's the dream thing that

497
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,479
Speaker 5: you could never write in any other market? And I

498
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 5: was like, well, if you're really asking, did you know

499
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 5: that everybody in my family is basically gay or queer,

500
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 5: or buy or trans. And she's like, now that is

501
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 5: a book I would read. We'll call it The Family Outing.

502
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 5: I'll sell it and get back to you. And you know, Laura,

503
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 5: that's what she did. And I will just say that

504
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 5: because she sold it before I wrote it, I then

505
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 5: made it a priority. And I don't know if I

506
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 5: could have in the same way if I didn't know

507
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 5: that it was going to help me pay for my

508
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 5: kids to go to college.

509
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 2: Exactly, Well, we are to take one more quick ad

510
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: break and we'll be black with more from Jesse well

511
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 2: I with Jesse Humple. We've been talking career advice. We've

512
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: been talking about navigating roles in parenthood and work in

513
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: a two mom family, and we love to hear from

514
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 2: our guests about a day in the life.

515
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: So what does a day in the life look like

516
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: for you? These days?

517
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 5: It begins around five AM, when I pop out of bed,

518
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 5: not because I'm a hugely disciplined person, but because I'm

519
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 5: deeply a morning person. Always happen. I have like an

520
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,719
Speaker 5: hour or so to myself where I read or write

521
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 5: and have a little bit of time for myself, and

522
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 5: then my children show up. And my children Laura, are

523
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 5: three and five by around six, with lots of wants

524
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 5: and needs and right now a lot of big feelings,

525
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 5: so many big feelings. We live in Brooklyn, New York,

526
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 5: and we have from about six to seven thirty to

527
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 5: get the children and the dog and me and my

528
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 5: wife somehow prepared for a day in out the door.

529
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 5: And that whole period of our day is usually defined

530
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 5: by noise. It's like raucous.

531
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: It's just a loise.

532
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 5: I'm not sure what happens. My wife has like her zones,

533
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 5: like she does the lunches. I have my zone, which

534
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 5: is I can usually convince the children to you well,

535
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 5: I can't usually get them to brush their teeth. I

536
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 5: try really hard, but i'd say we're like batting fifty

537
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 5: to fifty on that. But like to get them dressed

538
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 5: and get the dog walked, and then I take my

539
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 5: son to his little He goes to an outdoor kindergarten

540
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 5: in our neighborhood, and my wife takes our daughter off

541
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 5: to her preschool, and I get on the subway and

542
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 5: I come into like nice quiet work where adults say slow,

543
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 5: quiet things and have a sort of a wonderful, peaceful

544
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 5: nine to five and Laura. I usually stick in some

545
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 5: exercise there. I try really hard first thing in the morning.

546
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 5: If I don't get it in there, sometimes I can

547
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 5: get it right before I leave. We have a gym

548
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 5: in the basement, and if I don't move during a day,

549
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 5: the whole day kind of goes flat. So try to

550
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 5: prioritize that. But I got to get out of here

551
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 5: by four forty five because somebody has to relieve the

552
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 5: nanny by six, So I'm always running to do that.

553
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 5: And usually my wife, you know, she's home with the

554
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 5: kids for a lot of the day, but she's usually

555
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 5: at swim lessons or she's picking up somebody from taekwondo.

556
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 5: There's I didn't realize this. I know, I'm just coming

557
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 5: into a league of parenting that you've been in for

558
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 5: a while, but there's just so much taking them places.

559
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 5: It just seems like the job gets bigger instead of smaller,

560
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 5: which is.

561
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 2: Why you still need childcare even with your wife. Oh yeah,

562
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: working part time or whatever it is she's doing now, Yes.

563
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 5: Yes, totally so. By six o'clock, everybody ends up on

564
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 5: the playground. And I live in this sort of like

565
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 5: Sesame Street esque building in Brooklyn, New York. And at

566
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 5: some point one of the parents in the building says

567
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 5: to all of the kids, come on, guys, it's time

568
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 5: to come upstairs. And they all sort of on mass,

569
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 5: maybe like eight of them tumble home from the playground

570
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 5: and up the stairs, and we take our two and

571
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 5: throw them in the bathtub and get them to bed

572
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 5: around seven thirty. And we really have to aim for

573
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 5: seven thirty because Laura, if I'm not in bed by nine,

574
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 5: then I'm just asleep wherever I am at nine. That's

575
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 5: how it goes.

576
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: It could be on the floor of the kid's room. Yes,

577
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: on the TV.

578
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 5: Something is actually where Yeah, yeah.

579
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 2: Well that's the thing about being an early bird, is

580
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: you tend not to stay up?

581
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, And if you occasionally and this probably never

582
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 5: ever happens to you. But if I make the mistake

583
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 5: of opening my phone and start scrolling and then I

584
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 5: look up and it's ten like that is, it's never good.

585
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 5: It just it always ends badly. The next day.

586
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's a little later for me, but I

587
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 2: don't wake up at five. Sarah does. Sarah does, She's

588
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 2: usually up at like four forty five, But you know

589
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: that's she's a very dedicated runner in the morning. I

590
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 2: am not a dedicated runner in the morning. I'm not

591
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: dedicated to anything in the morning.

592
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 5: Frankly, I love that. Though I love I can't do that,

593
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 5: Like physical movement is not where I can land early

594
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 5: in the morning. And I always wanted, I've aspired to

595
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 5: be one of those people who just wakes up in

596
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 5: laces or shoes and goes not me.

597
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can do it. But it's sort of

598
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: a later what many people would consider a later morning.

599
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 2: It's not a five am sort of thing. Ever around here.

600
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, so we always end with a love

601
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: of the week, which is something that is you know,

602
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: that we're enjoying now. I would say that I was

603
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: in New York City the weekend before we were recording

604
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: this with my eldest son who is now seventeen, and

605
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: he and I have been to the top of a

606
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: lot of tall buildings together, like over the years. This

607
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: is just something we've done in New York. And so

608
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: we went to One Vanderbilt so Summit at one Vanderbilt

609
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, we went to the top

610
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: of the Empire State Building. Two years ago, we went

611
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: to the top of the World Trade Center. We're in

612
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: a hotel that had a roof deck on the forty

613
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: six floors and went up to the top of that.

614
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, when I'm in a big city, I like

615
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: to be up and seeing things that you're not seeing

616
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 2: when you're out in the burbs.

617
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: So really enjoying that.

618
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 5: You can get so much from doing that. Well, when

619
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 5: it's time to come with your next child, come back here,

620
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 5: because I'll take you to the top of the Empire.

621
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: Stap exit you're taking with the Empire State Building.

622
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 5: We have a record in the Empire State Building, and

623
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 5: that is really my son's favorite thing about it, which

624
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 5: is that he can go to the top with his friends.

625
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 4: Well, that is cool.

626
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 2: A mommy's workplace is a little bit more cool than

627
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: a lot of workplaces.

628
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: From that perspective. So what's your love of the week?

629
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 4: Jesse?

630
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 5: I do have a love of the week, and that

631
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 5: is that this is the week every year that my

632
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 5: family road trips down to Tupelo, Mississippi. Tue Below, Mississippi

633
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 5: is not the love. It's a great place, but the

634
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 5: love goes to the road trip because when my wife

635
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 5: introduced this idea, it was during the pandemic. Before the pandemic,

636
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 5: I only flew to Tupelow because it's an eighteen hour drive,

637
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 5: But when faced with no choice, we put the baby

638
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 5: and the dog in the car and I sat in

639
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 5: the back between them, and she hit the gas and

640
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 5: we stopped at a Baptist church in Hollywood, Alabama, so

641
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 5: that I could go to the bathroom. But apart from that,

642
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 5: we really just did not stop until we got to Tubelow, Mississippi.

643
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 5: And since then we have road tripped once or twice

644
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 5: a year with the entire family and as they get

645
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 5: older and their attention gets harder to hold. I have

646
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 5: gone from really despising the time to feeling like it

647
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 5: is our family special time together where we make our

648
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 5: memories and we have our traditions and our rituals and

649
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 5: places we stop and I always know my kids better

650
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 5: on the other side of it. So, if you happen

651
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 5: to be anywhere between New York City and Tupelo, Mississippi,

652
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 5: this weekend, maybe I'll see.

653
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: You exactly exactly.

654
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: And then it's summer in Tublo, Mississippi, which sounds a

655
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: little hot to me, but you tell me there's a

656
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 2: pool involved.

657
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 5: And a lot of air conditioning, a lot of central air.

658
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 5: That is good.

659
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: That is critical.

660
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 2: Well, Jesse, thanks so much for joining us. H Can

661
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 2: you maybe just tell our listeners where they can find you.

662
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 5: Sure you could find Hello Monday with Jesse Heemple, which

663
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 5: is LinkedIn's flagship podcast anywhere you listen to podcasts, or

664
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 5: you can follow me on LinkedIn. I'm easy to find

665
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 5: and you can always find me my website, which is

666
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 5: Jesse j Hemple. Let me take that again. I should

667
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 5: know my own website. It's Jessejhimple dot com.

668
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,479
Speaker 1: That's good. We'll get that down right, all right, Jesse,

669
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us.

670
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 5: Thank you, Laura.

671
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: Well we are back.

672
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: I was just interviewing Jesse Hemple, who's the host of

673
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 2: LinkedIn's Hello Monday podcast. So our question for this week

674
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 2: is also a career related question. So this list o

675
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 2: writes in, do you have any ideas for resetting or

676
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 2: momentum planning after a big goal of accomplishment, Like let's

677
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 2: say this person is an academic who achieved tenure, or

678
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 2: it could be someone at a law firm who made

679
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 2: partner or anything along those lines. So you've gone through

680
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: the major hoop. Now what, Sarah, what would you say?

681
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: Yeah?

682
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 3: So fun fact, this came from someone who did achieve tenure,

683
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 3: and she did so after completing best Lead Plans academy.

684
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 3: I'm not going to say those two things are related.

685
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: But of course they are.

686
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 3: But she was super happy to share that with me,

687
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 3: and I was so excited for her, and I thought

688
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 3: it was.

689
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 4: A really interesting question.

690
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 3: I think the first thing I would say is not

691
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 3: to jump straight into the next thing, but to make

692
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 3: sure you've taken time to savor that accomplishment and really celebrate,

693
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 3: like where you've gotten.

694
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 4: I would do that in.

695
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: A number of ways.

696
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 3: Celebrate with yourself, take time to reflect, maybe do some

697
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 3: sort of treat that's just for you, and then also

698
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 3: with others, whether that might be throwing a little celebration

699
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 3: to help people, to thank people who helped you along

700
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 3: the way perhaps, or like doing a little family celebration,

701
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 3: like really mark that milestone, because most likely many years

702
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 3: went into that and it can be tempting to just

703
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 3: move on, but really valuable to reflect and celebrations help

704
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 3: us do that. Then I think that think about what

705
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 3: you want to do and not with a lens of

706
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,919
Speaker 3: like well what would the next logical thing be, because

707
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 3: if I'm associate professor, then it should be full professor

708
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 3: or whatever.

709
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 4: I mean, I just made that up. I'm not an academic.

710
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 3: But instead of thinking like what would the guidebooks say

711
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,280
Speaker 3: to do, think about like, well, what do I want

712
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 3: to do with this role? Like what do I want

713
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 3: my day to look like? What do I want my

714
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 3: life to look like in ten years? Call Newport calls

715
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 3: it lifestyle centric career planning, And I do kind of

716
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 3: like that concept of like maybe thinking about outside the

717
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 3: box of what you're going to do with this new

718
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 3: milestone based on what you want your day to day

719
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 3: existence to feel like. And then I would also just

720
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 3: be really really patient because anytime you have a transition

721
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 3: like this, things can just feel messy when you start

722
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 3: with and I personally get into the trap of feeling like, Okay,

723
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 3: I'm at this new thing and I did some planning,

724
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 3: so it's going to be like super smooth and awesome

725
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 3: from the very beginning, and a lot of times, like

726
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 3: I have learned the hard way that no, it like

727
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 3: takes adjustment you're figuring things out. I remember when I

728
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 3: kind of even went to sixty percent with my job,

729
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 3: which sounds like it would be a really easy transition,

730
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, like what do I do?

731
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 3: How do I structure my days? Like what do I

732
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 3: you know, going from a day packed with meetings to

733
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 3: a day where I had to decide when to do

734
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 3: things was really different. So give yourself time to analyze,

735
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 3: think about it, settle in, and maybe figure stuff out

736
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 3: through trial and error. And my final idea I had

737
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 3: a lot of ideas, I guess, is to think about

738
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 3: perhaps if there are ways you could give back by

739
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 3: helping those under you, like especially if you receive the

740
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 3: benefit of being mentored by someone, then being in the

741
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 3: next level might mean that you're ready to do some

742
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 3: mentoring of your own. I think as women were always like, oh,

743
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 3: I'm not at that point of being a mentor, because

744
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:03,280
Speaker 3: you know, I'm just still new with this. But really,

745
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 3: if you've reached that tenure position, then you're really awesome

746
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 3: and impressive to anyone who hasn't. So you probably have

747
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 3: a lot that you could impart on the next generation.

748
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 3: So those are a few of my thoughts.

749
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 2: Excellent, Yeah, I was thinking back to this. I have

750
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 2: a section in one hundred and sixty eight Hours, which

751
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 2: is a book I wrote many many years ago, but

752
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 2: the chapter was about achieving the career breakthrough. In the

753
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 2: last section it was called be ready to ride the wave.

754
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: And that's because I think a lot of people you

755
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 2: get so focused on like, this is the thing I

756
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 2: have to achieve, and it is a big thing. But

757
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 2: life keeps going after that. I mean, you wake up

758
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 2: the next morning, you sweep up the confetti and the balloons.

759
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: And then you keep going forward.

760
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 2: And so being ready to ride that wave means having

761
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 2: some back burner projects that you know, maybe may weren't

762
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 2: your main thing that you used in your you know,

763
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: tenure committee, media or whatever. But you have these things

764
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 2: that you still want to keep moving forward on. You

765
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 2: can reach out to everyone as you're sharing the good news,

766
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: and as part of that, have these conversations about what

767
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 2: your colleagues are working on and what areas they feel

768
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: are right for discovery that might form the basis of

769
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: your next project. Whatever good habits you have, it's probably

770
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: not the time to get rid of them. So if

771
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: you have good creative habits, like devoting time every week

772
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 2: to reading new research, or coming up with lists of

773
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 2: ideas to pursue, or writing five hundred words a day,

774
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 2: just to keep yourself in that mindset, keep going with

775
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 2: those right like, because they're going to lead to new

776
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: things in the future, and you know you're going to

777
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 2: need some other big idea, and so you want to

778
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 2: keep laying the groundwork for that big idea to happen.

779
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 2: And then of course be open to opportunity as well.

780
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 2: I mean, especially as you get more seen, you're probably

781
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 2: people want you to do lots of things, so you're

782
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 2: not going to take on everything that people are suggesting.

783
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 2: But on the other hand, you want to know what

784
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 2: looks like good to you, and so you are ready

785
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 2: to seize opportunities that look fairly close to what good

786
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 2: looks like for you.

787
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 1: And then you can ride that wave.

788
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: I'm always fascinated by the people who are sort of

789
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 2: the difference between the one hit wonders of the world

790
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 2: and then the people who keep coming up with good stuff.

791
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 2: And I think it really is that being open to

792
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 2: new opportunities, to seeking them out, and to maintaining those

793
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 2: good habits even if you don't technically like have to awesome.

794
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 4: I love that.

795
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 2: All right, Well, I've been talking with Jesse Hemple, host

796
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 2: of LinkedIn's podcast Hello Monday. We will be back next

797
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 2: week with more on making work and life fit together.

798
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:42,800
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.

799
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com

800
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 3: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram.

801
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 2: And you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.

802
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 2: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please

803
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: join us next time for more on making work in life.

804
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: I've worked together