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Speaker 1: Audi adults. If you're listening to this show with kids,

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Speaker 1: we just wanted to give you a heads up that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about the birds and the bees today, So

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Speaker 1: decide for yourself if it's time to switch to a

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Speaker 1: different episode of Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe. Giving birth

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Speaker 1: is a truly profound and beautiful experience, but also it

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Speaker 1: really sucks and it's super dangerous. According to UNIEF, there

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Speaker 1: were two hundred and eighty seven thousand maternal deaths in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty. That's down from four hundred and forty seven

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Speaker 1: thousand deaths in two thousand, so that's great news, But

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Speaker 1: labor and delivery remain super dangerous. Not all places are

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Speaker 1: equally dangerous, though, A lot of danger is removed when

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Speaker 1: you have access to nearby healthcare, which is why I

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Speaker 1: find myself a little concerned when Elon Musk proposes we

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Speaker 1: send one million people to Mars in the next thirty years.

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Speaker 1: No humans will have ever been quite so far away

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Speaker 1: from a hospital. And on top of that, Mars is

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Speaker 1: a much harsher environment than Earth, for reasons we'll discuss today.

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Speaker 1: The Martian environment could pose a lot of additional challenges

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Speaker 1: for pregnant moms and their babies. Can moms survived this

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Speaker 1: process and what about their babies? So today we're talking

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Speaker 1: about conception, pregnancy, labor, and subsequent child development in space.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 3: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I've continued in

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Speaker 3: my family's tradition of being born in one continent, raised

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Speaker 3: in a second, and having a child on a third.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, go through the Where did you come from?

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Speaker 3: I was born in Israel, which technically part of a

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Speaker 3: raised in America, and one of my children was born

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Speaker 3: in Switzerland near the particle collider.

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Speaker 1: That is very cool. I have no crazy travel stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. I was born in New Jersey, raised in Ohio.

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Speaker 1: Then I went kind of all over the US for

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Speaker 1: a while, but I've pretty much lived on this continent.

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Speaker 1: It's exciting. Oh yeah, and I'm Kelly Wienersmith. I study

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Speaker 1: parasites and mostly stay here.

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Speaker 3: All right. Well, then my question for you today, Kelly

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Speaker 3: is where is the strangest place you've ever heard of

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Speaker 3: a baby being born?

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Speaker 1: So in Antarctica. There's this slice of Antarctica that has

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Speaker 1: three overlapping land claims. So the UK, Chile, and Argentina

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Speaker 1: all claim this chunk of Antarctica, and for geopolitical reasons,

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Speaker 1: there's it seems this desire to have babies on this

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Speaker 1: land chunk, so that if we do ever go back, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a great story. So if we do ever

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Speaker 1: go back to an era where sort of history matters,

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Speaker 1: and you could say, well, like, yes, there's overlap claims,

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Speaker 1: but we were here doing science and having babies and

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Speaker 1: and so I don't remember which it was, either Argentina

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Speaker 1: or Chile. They flew a pregnant woman out to the

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Speaker 1: middle of nowhere so that she could have a baby.

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Speaker 3: Who agrees to that? Who agrees to have your birth

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Speaker 3: be part of like geopolitical discussions.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's an interesting birth story, but I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And then the other nation to one up them, had

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Speaker 1: a baby conceived and born on their research base, and

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Speaker 1: so there's this like wit zach and I call it

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Speaker 1: counter stork technology or something like instead of yeah and

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Speaker 1: so so, yeah, I think that is the weirdest birth

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Speaker 1: baby birth story I have heard, what about you?

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that totally tops it.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 3: I mean I've heard of babies born like in transit

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Speaker 3: in the ocean, like you know, between continents. But I

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Speaker 3: was wondering if babies had ever been born under really

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Speaker 3: difficult circumstances like that. But I have to question, like

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Speaker 3: the moms, like are they really nationalistic? They really want

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Speaker 3: to play a role in these arguments between countries, like

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Speaker 3: literally being upon in global diplomacy. That's crazy to me.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I I feel like the dad's decisions could

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Speaker 1: have been you know, part of it too. But but yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I think parents, you know, having kids as part of

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Speaker 1: geopolitical one upmanship is not amazing, is it, TMI. We

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Speaker 1: can delete this if it is to mention that my

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Speaker 1: son was born on Halloween and they were little cat

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Speaker 1: ears over the like blanket on my knees when I

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Speaker 1: was giving birth to my baby because the doctor had

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Speaker 1: dressed up as a cat, and it was a weird experience.

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Speaker 3: That's not to you, that's awesome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, you know, I think pregnancy is always a

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Speaker 1: little bit weird, but sometimes it's just weirder than other times.

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Speaker 3: Well, here's hoping that all of your pregnancies are smooth

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Speaker 3: sailing and do not involve diplomats arguing outside.

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Speaker 1: So geopolitics, complic and other things that can complicate life

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Speaker 1: are being a difficult environments when you need to give birth,

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Speaker 1: and there's maybe no environment more difficult than space. And

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Speaker 1: today we are tackling a question from a listener we

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Speaker 1: got that was inspired by the episode where we interviewed

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Speaker 1: Erica Nezvold, and here is the question.

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Speaker 2: Now, Hi, Daniel, ye Kelly. My name is Glenn Rosas.

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Speaker 2: During your recent interview with Eric and Neswold, a question

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Speaker 2: occurred to me. Now, we cannot be an air planetary species,

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Speaker 2: and let's we're able to have babies up there, and

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Speaker 2: we know from our experience on the ISS that micro

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Speaker 2: gravity is not good for human physiology in the long term.

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Speaker 2: So where can babies safely just date and womb away

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Speaker 2: from Earth? Thank you so very much for everything you do.

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Speaker 3: Well, Kelly. This seems like a pretty basic question about

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Speaker 3: space exploration because I imagine we're not just going to

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Speaker 3: send like one generation of astronauts to colonize the Solio system.

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Speaker 3: Those folks are going to want to have kids, and

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Speaker 3: we're going to want to perpetuate the species. You know,

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Speaker 3: Elon Musk is always talking about making us multiplanetary, that

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Speaker 3: involves having kids off Earth, right, So I hope that

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Speaker 3: we have like a really solid, well researched answer to

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Speaker 3: this because everybody's rushing into space, right.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think you can explore space without us having

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Speaker 1: the answer to this question, no problem. And Elon Musk

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Speaker 1: would argue that you could just send something like a

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Speaker 1: million people to space. You don't have to worry about

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Speaker 1: reproduction initially, you can get the whole thing up and going.

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Speaker 1: And he's doing his best to create a million babies

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Speaker 1: to send to Mars. He's still got a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a way to go, but he's getting there. But

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Speaker 1: you know, I do think that before we send people

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Speaker 1: to settle Space, even if you send a million people there,

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Speaker 1: I've met humans, there's going to be babies, whether you

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Speaker 1: plan on them or not.

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Speaker 3: A million people are going to want to entertain themselves

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Speaker 3: and making babies. This part of that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you told me that, Katrina. Let you know once

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Speaker 1: that in Antarctica there is a lot of these sorts

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Speaker 1: of activities as a way to pass time. Imagine that

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Speaker 1: human behavior will follow us to these other isolated and

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Speaker 1: confined environments.

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Speaker 3: Yes, because they actually mandate your schedule in that Antarctic

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Speaker 3: Research Station. It's eight hours of sleep, eight hours of work,

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Speaker 3: and then you have eight hours like you gotta do something.

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Speaker 3: And there's only so many times you can watch the

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Speaker 3: same set of DVDs that are down there. You know,

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Speaker 3: they don't have internet streaming, and so, yeah, people entertain

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Speaker 3: each other. That's right, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Card games get boring, you gotta do something else.

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Speaker 3: So we should know the answer to this question. We

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Speaker 3: should understand whether this is something humans can safely do

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Speaker 3: off Earth, and then we should figure out like how

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Speaker 3: we can figure it out. If we don't have the answer.

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Speaker 1: I would absolutely agree with you, and I think that

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Speaker 1: for a lot of folks, and for me in particular,

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Speaker 1: when we started researching a city on Mars, we didn't

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Speaker 1: know actually where we stand in terms of our understanding

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Speaker 1: of how reproduction works in space. So let's back up

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Speaker 1: a bit here and ask our audience what do they know?

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Speaker 1: What do they think? Is it safe for humans to

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Speaker 1: have babies on Mars?

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Speaker 5: I would say main obstacles are psychological, medical, gravitational and

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Speaker 5: radiation exposure is also a problem.

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Speaker 6: If it's barely safe to have humans on Mars right now,

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Speaker 6: grown adults who are trained to do it. Having babies

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Speaker 6: on Mars doesn't seem super safe or ethical.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that should be perfectly safe.

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Speaker 4: My bed is yes, but you may have higher rates

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Speaker 4: of cancers and other bone density issues.

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Speaker 7: I'm gonna say that you'd be lucky if your children

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Speaker 7: survive the harsh climates and thin atmosphepere that doesn't have

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Speaker 7: breathable air and that has low gravity.

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Speaker 3: On the surface.

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Speaker 4: It's not safe for humans to have babies on Mars

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Speaker 4: because it's not safe for all humans to have babies

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Speaker 4: on Earth.

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Speaker 8: I don't see any reason why not. Yes, it would

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Speaker 8: be dangerous. However, we should have developed a safe as

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Speaker 8: it can be environment for humans to live anyway. So

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Speaker 8: what difference does it make if that human is a

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Speaker 8: little one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 9: Maybe, I think given that Mars is full of kind

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Speaker 9: of toxic things like heavy metals and other contaminants in

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Speaker 9: the soil, it might be really difficult to bring a

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Speaker 9: child into the world that was healthy.

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Speaker 4: The more different the Mars environment is from the Earth environment,

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Speaker 4: more likely it is that our offspring will be different.

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Speaker 4: I think we will have to use the precautionary principle

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Speaker 4: and play it safe.

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Speaker 8: No, it is not safe for humans to have Martian babies.

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Speaker 6: We are very much custom built for this planet and

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Speaker 6: likely with pore adaptability for another planet.

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Speaker 5: Of course, it's dangerous for a woman to give birth

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Speaker 5: on Mars.

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Speaker 2: Mars wants to kill you.

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Speaker 4: I'm not really sure that it's safe to have babies

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Speaker 4: on Earth. Seem to need an entire hospital at your

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Speaker 4: disposal to be able to do it here. The lower

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Speaker 4: gravity environment may have fit the bones. Other than that,

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Speaker 4: I'm in a.

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Speaker 10: Lost Ultimately, it probably will prove to be safe. Radiation

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Speaker 10: damage to the parents would be important, and maybe at

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Speaker 10: some point we can re engineer our genes to withstand

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Speaker 10: more radiation. After all, cockroaches do that quite well. Maybe

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Speaker 10: we can borrow their genes.

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Speaker 3: So a lot of skepticism here. Yeah, folks have been

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Speaker 3: reading your book and listening to us talk about the

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Speaker 3: crazy dangers and the environment of space and realizing how

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Speaker 3: culshy we have it actually here on Earth. Giving birth

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Speaker 3: in Antarctica is probably really safe and comfortable compared to

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Speaker 3: anywhere else in this Solar system.

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Speaker 1: That's true. But you know, there were also some folks

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Speaker 1: who who felt pretty confident that we would be able

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Speaker 1: to have babies on Mars, no problem. And I should say,

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Speaker 1: right at the beginning, it's totally possible. They're right, We

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Speaker 1: really just don't know. And at the beginning of the

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Speaker 1: space Age, there were a bunch of medical doctors who

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Speaker 1: were concerned that just sending humans up into space we

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Speaker 1: would die. Like if you were essentially in free fall

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Speaker 1: experience and no gravity, you wouldn't be able to swallow,

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Speaker 1: you'd never be able to eat. It would just be

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Speaker 1: a total non starter. So there is a long history

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Speaker 1: of worrying about things that don't end up being a problem.

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Speaker 1: But I think we have pretty good reason to suspect

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Speaker 1: that some of these things will be problems.

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Speaker 3: You know, sometimes these problems go away only because you

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Speaker 3: do worry about them. I mean, my Jewish heritage tells

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Speaker 3: me that worrying solves problems, and so, you know, don't

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Speaker 3: be down on people worrying, but less joky. I think

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Speaker 3: it's important to remember that our perspective is constantly shifting,

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Speaker 3: and that it's really hard to put yourself in the

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Speaker 3: minds of people who knew less about the universe. You know,

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Speaker 3: folks who thought maybe there was life on Mars and

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Speaker 3: who didn't know what space was like because it was

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Speaker 3: before the era of space exploration, and so it's easy

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Speaker 3: to look back on those folks and be like, ha ha,

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Speaker 3: what a bunch of goofs. But remember they really didn't know,

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Speaker 3: And people are going to look back on us in

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Speaker 3: one hundred years and be like, ha ha, what a

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Speaker 3: bunch of goofs. They didn't know xyz. But you know,

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Speaker 3: everybody's just doing their best.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and I think a lot of your current

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Speaker 1: experiences do color the way you look either forward or back.

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Speaker 1: You know, like if we were a couple hundred years

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Speaker 1: in the past, anywhere on Earth where someone got pregnant,

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Speaker 1: there'd be a pretty good chance that mom or the

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Speaker 1: baby would die, Like you would be more concerned about it.

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Speaker 1: But now, at least if you live in the United States,

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Speaker 1: for most people in good areas where there's affordable well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if there's a lot of affordable healthcare

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Speaker 1: in the US, but where you can access healthcare, you know,

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Speaker 1: you expect that you're going to survive through labor. But

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Speaker 1: that's not even true in a lot of different places

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Speaker 1: in the world. And so, you know, I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of us don't hear about mothers and children dying often,

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Speaker 1: though of course it still happens, but maybe that makes

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Speaker 1: us think it'll be easier just about anywhere we go.

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Speaker 3: All right, So we do have some experience in space, right,

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Speaker 3: We've been sending people to space for fifty years or

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Speaker 3: so and even living in space on space stations. What

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Speaker 3: do we know from our experience in space stations about

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Speaker 3: women's bodies and conception and reproduction in.

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Speaker 1: Space, Well, not a ton. So only fifteen percent of

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Speaker 1: the people who have ever been to space have been women, which,

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Speaker 1: like that percentage surprises me. So we've sent something like

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Speaker 1: seven hundred people to space, so that's still like a

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Speaker 1: fairly large number of individuals and a decent number of women.

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Speaker 1: But they've all been, you know, up there for different

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Speaker 1: amounts of time, doing different kinds of missions, so the

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Speaker 1: data from all of them isn't necessarily super comparable. And

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Speaker 1: the longest consecutive stay by a woman is three hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty eight days by Christina Koch. No other woman

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Speaker 1: has stayed up for even a year up until this point,

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Speaker 1: and so we don't have a lot of data on

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Speaker 1: adult women bodies. We do know that bodies in general

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Speaker 1: tend to start falling apart when you're in free fall,

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Speaker 1: so you're experiencing something like no gravity. And as we've

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Speaker 1: talked about on other episodes, muscles and bones degrade, visions,

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Speaker 1: vision degrades, and we think all these problems are associated

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Speaker 1: with low gravity.

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Speaker 3: And do we know, even from our limited data, if

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Speaker 3: it affects women differently, Like obviously women's and men's bodies

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Speaker 3: on average are different. Does freefall affect them differently?

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Speaker 1: That is a great question. It is possible that someone

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Speaker 1: has done that study, and I haven't seen it. I

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Speaker 1: didn't when I was reading like various reviews, I didn't

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Speaker 1: see a lot of you know, people saying things like

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Speaker 1: and bone atrophy is way worse for women or way

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Speaker 1: worse for men. So it's possible we know that, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: And the effects that we do know about which ones

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Speaker 3: are maybe most relevant for pregnancy and conception and birth

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Speaker 3: and that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: I think the data related to muscles and bones are

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Speaker 1: particularly concerning so astronauts in general, not necessarily just women,

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Speaker 1: but the entire pool of astronauts that have been studied

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Speaker 1: on this question lose one percent of the bone density

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Speaker 1: in their hip per month. You know, when labor kicks

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Speaker 1: in and you're hoping that your hips are not going

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Speaker 1: to break like that sounds pretty scary. There's also been

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Speaker 1: a study where they sent rodents to space when they

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Speaker 1: were pregnant, and then they brought them back down to Earth,

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Speaker 1: and those rodents had to do a certain type of

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Speaker 1: contraction twice as much, And the thought was that their

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Speaker 1: muscles degraded in space, so the kind of muscles that

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Speaker 1: they needed for contractions just weren't as strong as they

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Speaker 1: should be. So they were in labor for a lot longer.

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Speaker 1: And any of the women out there who have been

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Speaker 1: in labor, they can all agree with me. You don't

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Speaker 1: want that to last any longer than it has to,

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Speaker 1: especially if you didn't request the epidural soon enough and

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Speaker 1: you do it naturally.

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Speaker 3: So the effects in the human body are primarily muscle loss,

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Speaker 3: which is going to impact going into labor. Bone loss,

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Speaker 3: and you need your bones also, don't You need to

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Speaker 3: provide basic building blocks to build your baby. All those

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Speaker 3: ingredients are taken from the woman's body, right, So if

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Speaker 3: you're losing them because of the environment of space, and

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Speaker 3: you're losing them because you're pregnant, that seems kind of

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Speaker 3: dangerous for the mom's health.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, absolutely, that seems dangerous for the mom's health.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so you could send her up there with

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Speaker 1: the right kinds of foods, the right kinds of nutrients.

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Speaker 1: We do know that when you're in freefall, you lose

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Speaker 1: a lot of fluids, So your body is kind of

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Speaker 1: thrown by the fact that a bunch of fluids are

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Speaker 1: so high up in your body, so you end up

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Speaker 1: peeing out a lot of it. We're not really sure

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Speaker 1: what kind of problems that's going to cause. Additionally, you know,

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Speaker 1: muscles are important for how our cardiovascular system works. They

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Speaker 1: like push back against our blood vessels, and so women

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Speaker 1: who have had cardiovascular problems related to pregnancy might be

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Speaker 1: particularly at risk when they're in an environment where their

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Speaker 1: muscles are even more degraded than usual. So there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of problems that are sort of hinted at by

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Speaker 1: what we know about what happens on space stations. But

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Speaker 1: no woman who's been to space, as far as we know,

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Speaker 1: has been pregnant or gotten pregnant, and as far as

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Speaker 1: we can find solid evidence for, and Zach and I

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Speaker 1: disagree about, you know, whether or not this has happened.

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Speaker 1: We don't even know if sex has happened in space.

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Speaker 3: Yet another thing I wonder is, you know, when a

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Speaker 3: woman is pregnant, she's told to have exercise certain ways

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Speaker 3: and eat certain ways in order to you know, counteract

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Speaker 3: some of these effects and support the growth of the baby.

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Speaker 3: And then also when you go to space, you're told

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Speaker 3: do certain exercises, drink more fluids. Whatever. Do you think

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Speaker 3: any of those instructions disagree, are they in conflict or

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Speaker 3: you know what a pregnant woman in space basically just

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Speaker 3: like do both of those things, like eat lots of

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Speaker 3: protein and make sure you get extra exercise to avoid

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Speaker 3: boring loss.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a great question. So I remember when

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Speaker 1: I was pregnant, I was told, you know, like you

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Speaker 1: should exercise a lot, but don't overdo it because if

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Speaker 1: you know, you don't want to for a variety of reasons,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to overdo it. But women or people

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Speaker 1: in space are supposed to exercise something like two to

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Speaker 1: three hours a day every day, and so it might

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Speaker 1: be difficult to balance not overdoing it with making sure

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Speaker 1: that you're keeping your bones and muscles strong enough. Also,

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Speaker 1: you know, we change our diet in a lot of

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Speaker 1: ways when we get pregnant. So for example, you know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't eat any processed meats because there was some

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Speaker 1: concern of listeria and what that could do. So there

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Speaker 1: were like no turkey sandwiches for me during my pregnancy.

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Speaker 1: It was a massive hardship. But the environment, like you know,

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Speaker 1: the space station is notorious for having like all kinds

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Speaker 1: of weird stuff like growing on the other sides of

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Speaker 1: the panels. People are more likely to get sort of

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Speaker 1: like weird infections on their skin. Their immune system is

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Speaker 1: already a little bit immunocompromise, so people who have for example,

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Speaker 1: herpes latent herpes virus in their body, like the herpes

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Speaker 1: virus wakes up because the immune system seems to be

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Speaker 1: suppressed in some way. And so you know, these are

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Speaker 1: a lot of things that you could imagine possibly being

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Speaker 1: a problem for the mom or the baby, but we

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Speaker 1: just don't have a lot of a lot of data

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Speaker 1: on any of it.

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Speaker 3: Well, here's another potential problem. Since we've had children and

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Speaker 3: two continents, we've discovered that the cultural norms for what

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Speaker 3: pregnant women should do are very different. So, for example,

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Speaker 3: here in the US, if you're pregnant and you're having

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Speaker 3: caffeinated coffee, everybody's like, how dare you? That's so bad

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Speaker 3: for you. But if you're in France, everybody's like, one

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Speaker 3: cup of coffee a day, no big deal, It's not

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Speaker 3: that big a deal. But if you have salad, oh

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Speaker 3: my gosh, they give you the look of death. Right.

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Speaker 3: Salad is because of the risk some lettuce has things

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Speaker 3: growing on it. Like basically, you just don't eat salad,

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Speaker 3: and all kinds of soft cheeses you just don't eat

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Speaker 3: in France when you're pregnant. So the kinds of things

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Speaker 3: that people judge you for are very different different continents. Now,

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Speaker 3: imagine you're in the International Space Station. Do you follow

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Speaker 3: the French rules the American rules? Doesn't matter where you

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Speaker 3: launch from your citizenship? Like, who gets to judge you

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Speaker 3: about your pregnancy decisions?

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe everybody gets to judge you, because space

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Speaker 1: is a global humankind activity, you know, And so says

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Speaker 1: if moms aren't getting enough judgment, we can even more

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Speaker 1: in space.

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Speaker 3: Awesome. Well, let's talk about how you get pregnant. You

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Speaker 3: referenced this. We don't know that anybody's actually ever done

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Speaker 3: that in space, But what do we know about the

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Speaker 3: science of reproduction? Is it possible? Is there anything we

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Speaker 3: know about reproduction that would suggest that it's more difficult

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Speaker 3: or easier or just weirder in space.

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Speaker 1: So there have been some studies looking at sperm, for example,

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Speaker 1: that have found that, like it was bull sperm move

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Speaker 1: a little bit faster. But there was recently a study

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Speaker 1: that found that sperm sent to space we're sort of

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Speaker 1: behaving weirdly. So, like the data that we have on

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Speaker 1: just about everything related to reproduction in space is really

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Speaker 1: haphazard and often gives conflicting results. And partly this is

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Speaker 1: because NASA is really queasy about sex and reproduction, and

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Speaker 1: partly that's because they don't want to be spending money

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Speaker 1: and then needing to go in front of Congress to

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Speaker 1: justify why like geckos were having sex in space, like

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Speaker 1: why is that important? And I've asked a bunch of

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Speaker 1: NASA people. I was like, is this is it fair

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Speaker 1: to say that NASA doesn't really want to fun stuff

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Speaker 1: like this? And they're like, no, absolutely they don't. And

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Speaker 1: so so you'll get studies that manage to get up

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Speaker 1: there because they're sort of studying something else. Related to

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Speaker 1: reproduction in space, and then the reproduction stuff will kind

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Speaker 1: of be a sideshow. But there have been some studies,

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Speaker 1: including one on Earth, looking at cells associated with decidualization.

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Speaker 1: So this is how the uterus prepares for implantation, and

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Speaker 1: it looks like something about gravity is required for this

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Speaker 1: process to go.

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Speaker 3: Well, so what is the process I'm imagining deciduous trees?

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Speaker 3: Is there some analogy here to what's happening in the

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Speaker 3: lining of the uterus, that's a good question.

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Speaker 1: So there could be so deciduous trees shed their leaves

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Speaker 1: and the uterus is sort of ripening and thickening and

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Speaker 1: providing more of like you know, sort of blood and

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Speaker 1: food for possible implanted embryo, and then you know, once

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Speaker 1: a month that sheds, And so I hadn't put that together,

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Speaker 1: but way to go, Daniel, That's almost certainly what it means.

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Speaker 1: And maybe gravity is to some extent required for that.

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Speaker 1: Oh and so we could have trouble getting pregnant for starters.

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Speaker 1: Don't necessarily know that we will, but it's possible. And

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Speaker 1: there's already a bunch of people on Earth who have

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Speaker 1: fertility issues and find it difficult to get pregnant in

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Speaker 1: the first place, and some of those issues I guess

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Speaker 1: could be exacerbated when we get to space.

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Speaker 3: All right, So say I give you a large budget

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Speaker 3: to answer this question. What experiments would you do and

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Speaker 3: how do you do it in a way that's ethical.

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Speaker 1: That is a great question, and I'm going to answer

437
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 1: it after the break when I take you to the moon.

438
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: All right. So we talked about some of the problems

439
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 1: that have been sort of hinted at by having humans

440
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 1: on the International Space Station on how these problems might

441
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 1: indicate how reproduction could go in space. And Daniel asked

442
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 1: me what experiments I would do to try to figure

443
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 1: out if it's safe to have babies in space.

444
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 3: Without worrying about what you're gonna have to say in

445
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 3: front of Congress.

446
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 1: That's right. Oh, I don't know that there's any solution

447
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 1: for that. Maybe you get a private company to fund

448
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 1: these research experiments. That's that's above my pay grade. But

449
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: if somebody gave me a billion dollars or more, probably more,

450
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 1: what I would do is I would either send satellites

451
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 1: out past our magnetosphere and start spinning them to create

452
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: something like Martian gravity. Mars is where most of the

453
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: space settlement advocates are pushing for us to end up

454
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,199
Speaker 1: and so Mars has forty percent of Earth's gravity. We

455
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 1: already know that being in free fall and experiencing something

456
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: like zero gravity is a problem. So if you're in

457
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 1: a satellite that's rotating, you could make Martian gravity and

458
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 1: you could try to get a handle on you know,

459
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: does forty percent gravity, for example, remove all of the

460
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: problems with bone density. Is forty percent gravity enough to

461
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: keep bones and muscles strong? We don't really know the

462
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 1: answer there.

463
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 3: We don't even know the answer to what happens to

464
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 3: your bones if you live on Mars for quite a while.

465
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: No, nope, nope, no, no, boy. I mean there's Jacks,

466
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: the Japanese Aerospace Agency. They have a module up on

467
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 1: the International Space Station that now has oh the acronym

468
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: is Mars, but I forget what it stands for. It's

469
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: got these little wheels where one size has rodents that

470
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 1: spin to simulate different gravity regimes, and another side the

471
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 1: wheel doesn't spin, so you can see what happens in freefall.

472
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: And so we now have some systems to start to

473
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 1: get a handle on that, but we don't have loads

474
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: of data coming from that system. Yet.

475
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 3: All right, so you create the Martian environment in near

476
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,439
Speaker 3: Earth orbit by using centrivical force. But I want to

477
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 3: know what you're going to do in that environment. What

478
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 3: experiment is Kelly setting up to answer these sixy questions?

479
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: Well, you know, for starters, I would just put like

480
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: a rodent colony in one, a mouse colony in another,

481
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know, a vole colony in the third,

482
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 1: and just kind of see like can they survive through

483
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 1: multiple generations? And then you know, every once in a while,

484
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: harvest some of them and look to see if you know,

485
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: there's anything weird happening with any part of their physiology.

486
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 1: And another reason why you'd want to put them out

487
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: in orbit, but you know, out past our magnetosphere, is

488
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: that you could also start to get a handle on

489
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 1: how space radiation is impacting their bodies. You know, is

490
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 1: that causing mutations that are resulting in problems down the line.

491
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 3: And you're doing this in rodents because you don't care

492
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 3: about rodents feelings and whether their babies are mutated, or

493
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 3: because rodents are very similar to people in terms of

494
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 3: their reproductive systems, or why rodents.

495
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, I'll say that I adopted a

496
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 1: rodent as a pet when it was done with some

497
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,719
Speaker 1: cancer research because I like rodents very much. I think

498
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: they're very cute.

499
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 3: I had rats as pets. I love them. They're absolutely wonderful.

500
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: Are absolutely wonderful. I had one sitting on my shoulder

501
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: while I was working for a while while I had it.

502
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: But it's very cute. So rodents are like humans in

503
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, but they're also not like humans

504
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: in a lot of other ways. And so if it

505
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: worked with rodents, I would feel like, Okay, we've to

506
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 1: some extent convinced ourselves that we've gotten over the first hurdle.

507
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,119
Speaker 1: And then after that I would say, you know what,

508
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 1: probably these satellites are just they're not going to be

509
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 1: big enough to do what we need to do next.

510
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 1: So maybe the next step is to head to the

511
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 1: moon and set up a research station.

512
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,199
Speaker 3: The real barrier is ethical, right, Like you wanted the

513
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 3: answering humans, but you can't just start with humans. You

514
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 3: can't just like put humans there and have them reproduced

515
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 3: and see whether the babies come out weird, right, because

516
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 3: you can't just make weird babies in your science experiment.

517
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 3: But it's okay to do with rats. So how do

518
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 3: we get from we can't do this experiment of humans too?

519
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,479
Speaker 3: We can do this experiment of humans. Do we need

520
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 3: to convince ourselves it works on rats and then on dogs,

521
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 3: and then on pigs and then on monkeys. Is there's

522
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 3: like a stair step ladder where at some point we

523
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 3: feel like this is a reasonable chance to take with people.

524
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a great question. And there's not like

525
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: a global pre existing, you know, step ladder that's been established, Like,

526
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 1: first you do this and then you can test it

527
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: on humans. What I'm proposing is what I would feel

528
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: comfortable with, and so you know, I'd feel comfortable trying

529
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 1: it out on rodents first and then maybe scaling up,

530
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: like you know, have some dogs at the research station

531
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: and see how they do. People like having dogs around anyway,

532
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 1: and then send up chippanzees. But of course that is

533
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: ethically difficult, and so it's not clear how easy it

534
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: would be for you to get permission to do something

535
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: like that. But then maybe you could say, Okay, we're

536
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: gonna have a woman conceive on the moon, and we're

537
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: gonna check her out every single day, and if anything

538
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: looks like it's going wrong with mom or the baby,

539
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: we immediately bring her back to Earth. So one of

540
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 1: the great things about the Moon is it's about three

541
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: days away, whereas Mars is six months away at best,

542
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: if you're at the right window where you can leave

543
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: for it, which only opens every two years. So testing

544
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: stuff out on the Moon, if something goes wrong, you

545
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 1: can send them back really quick. Also, the Moon has

546
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: one sixth the gravity of Earth, and so if things

547
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: go well at one sixth Earth gravity, they're probably going

548
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: to go great at Martian gravity, which is even higher.

549
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: That's kind of how I would do it. I'd test

550
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: things out in satellites and then move to the Moon

551
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 1: and sort of slowly scale up until I convinced myself

552
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: this is safe to do on the Moon. Now we're

553
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: ready to start trying it farther out. But what do

554
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: you think if you were in charge, what would you do?

555
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 3: Oh? Man, This is why I do particle physics, because

556
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 3: you don't need IRBs or ethical questions when you're smashing

557
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 3: particles together. This is even why I avoided any part

558
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 3: of physics that has like immediate applications. You know, my

559
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 3: parents worked in weapons programs, and I was like, yikes,

560
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: that's too complicated morally for me. I really like to

561
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 3: separate my research from these moral quests. And even though

562
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 3: the more questions are really fascinating, I don't want to

563
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 3: be in charge of making those decisions. And I can't

564
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: imagine experimenting on my baby like the women you talked

565
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 3: about who are willing to give birth in Antarctica. That

566
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: definitely comes with additional risks, right. I remember when we

567
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 3: were having kids, I wanted to absolutely minimize the risk

568
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 3: in every direction, because this is your kid's life you're

569
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: talking about. So I can't imagine saying like, yeah, let's

570
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 3: go get pregnant in a place nobody's ever gotten pregnant before.

571
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 3: I just can't imagine being in that place. But hey,

572
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 3: everybody's different, you know. Some people want to break barriers,

573
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 3: But tell us what is unusual about the Moon's environment,

574
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 3: Like you told us about the effects on the human

575
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 3: body a free fall, But on the Moon there must

576
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 3: be other things that we have to worry about specifically.

577
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let me back up real quick for the

578
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,719
Speaker 1: ethics issue. And so I agree, this is like a

579
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: difficult ethical thing to build up to. And you know,

580
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: the first woman who gets pregnant on the moon, Like,

581
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 1: I would not want that to be me, but what

582
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 1: I would not let it be me? But uh, But

583
00:27:58,280 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: one of the things that I worry about is that

584
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 1: space tourism increases, and you know, people get more alone

585
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: time when they're up there. I'm worried we're going to

586
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: get these data accidentally and in a like non consistent way,

587
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: and so I would love to see us investing in

588
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: getting some more of these answers in a more consistent

589
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: way so we can let people know what the risks

590
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: really are. And I'll note that I also did everything

591
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: I could to reduce risk during pregnancy. But I met

592
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 1: plenty of people who I would say, like, here's what

593
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: I think the risks are about giving birth on Mars,

594
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: and they either thought that I was like over selling

595
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: the risks. Like one of them said, you know, wombs

596
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: are a neutral buoyancy tank. Gravity's not going to matter.

597
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: It'll be fine. I would have babies on Mars. And

598
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: so there are people who are not wospbags like you

599
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: and me, and would be willing to do it. But

600
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: that's not me yet.

601
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 3: No, as long as people know what the risks are

602
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 3: and are well informed can make their decisions. But I

603
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 3: guess they're ethical issues. They're like, we don't let people

604
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: make some decisions about their babies, Like we don't let

605
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 3: people engineer their babies DNA, Right, just because your parent

606
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 3: doesn't mean and you have complete control over the pregnancy

607
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 3: and this kind of stuff. So there's some really tricky

608
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 3: issues there, even if we have some initial data.

609
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: And you know, parents can sign consent forms but their

610
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: children can't. And we don't actually know that babies who

611
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: are born on Mars could ever return home. So maybe

612
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: developing in a lower gravity environment means your body would

613
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: never be strong enough to survive Earth gravity. But you

614
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: asked me about the Moon.

615
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I was listening to you say that we

616
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: could always bring the mom home, she's only three days away.

617
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 3: But I was wondering, aren't there some situations where a

618
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 3: problem has cropped up which is not reversible just by

619
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 3: going back to Earth. What are the particular dangers of

620
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 3: getting pregnant on the moon.

621
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is a tough question. Okay, So say

622
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: we do get our research station on the moon, and

623
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: the rodents are doing great on the Moon, so then

624
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: we know that reproduction at low gravity one sixth of

625
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: Earth's gravity doesn't cause any problems. We maybe at this

626
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: point have hopefully already figured out what happens when you're

627
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: exposed to space radiation and how to shield against that.

628
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: Because the Moon has no atmosphere and no planet wide magnetosphere,

629
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: so all the space radiation hits the surface of the

630
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: Moon straight on. So hopefully we've figured out radiation shielding,

631
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: so that's not a problem.

632
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 3: What about the regolith on the Moon. Is there anything

633
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 3: weird about that that we have to worry about?

634
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: I mean, that is some nasty stuff. So like you

635
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: probably want mom to stay inside the entire time, you

636
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: probably want almost everyone to stay inside most of the time.

637
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: So the problem with the regolith is, and we talked

638
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: about this in our episode about challenges of working on

639
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,719
Speaker 1: the Moon, it is electrostatic, so it clings. It's also

640
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: really fine pieces that are also super jagged, and so

641
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: there's concern that if you breathe it in it's going

642
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: to cause what's called stone grinder's disease here on Earth,

643
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: where essentially these tiny sharp particles scar your lung over

644
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,719
Speaker 1: and over again, making it really hard to breathe. So

645
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: we're going to have to be super careful to make

646
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: sure that we don't bring any of this into the

647
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: habitat with us. And between not going outside often and

648
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: radiation shielding, which is often in the four of or

649
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: often proposed to take the form of burying your habitat

650
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: in this regolith, you're not gonna be going outside much,

651
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: and we don't really understand the implications of that. So like, yes,

652
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: there could be some mental health implications of never going outside.

653
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: But part of how we extract calcium from food and

654
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: then incorporated into our bodies is by using sunlight to

655
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: produce vitamin D. So if you are underground all the

656
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: time and not getting any sunlight, is that going to

657
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: mess with your ability to produce your own bones and

658
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: then to produce the bones in the fetus, We don't know.

659
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: So maybe you'll have to sit in front of those

660
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: like full spectrum lights all day long to try to

661
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: get yourself enough vitamin D so you can make this stuff.

662
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 3: So you'll be nicely tanned.

663
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: So you'll be nice. Yeah, I guess that's good. So

664
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: the moon is sort of like Mars light, Well, I

665
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: guess it's more extreme in terms of gravity. If things

666
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: work on the Moon you can have pretty good confidence

667
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: that a lot of things will be okay on Mars,

668
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: and if things don't go well, you can get home quickly.

669
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: But so let's go ahead and head out to So

670
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: Mars is on average one hundred and forty million miles away,

671
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: really far. With current propulsion techniques, it takes six months

672
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: to get there, and you can only leave every two

673
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,479
Speaker 1: years when like an orbital when a window opens up

674
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: in Mars and Earth are and sort of like the

675
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: right locations as they're traveling around the Sun, so that

676
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: you could get to Mars as fast as possible. And

677
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: that means that if you're out there, you are like

678
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: on your own. If you need medical equipment, you are

679
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: not going to be getting a resupply ship, and so

680
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: there's a lot of planning that you need to do.

681
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: I was going to ask during Katrina's pregnancy, were there

682
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: any medication she needs, but maybe you don't want to

683
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: share that on air.

684
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, Katrina is type one diabetes, so her pregnancy was

685
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 3: considered high risk. And actually when she was pregnant with Hazel,

686
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 3: near the end of it, she stayed in lab very

687
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 3: late one night and missed the last bus home and

688
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 3: she ran to catch it and sprinted at like thirty

689
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 3: eight weeks pregnant, and then started feeling out very good,

690
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 3: but came home and went to bed. At two o'clock

691
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 3: in the morning, she woke up and she was like,

692
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 3: something is wrong. So we rushed to the hospital and

693
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,239
Speaker 3: something was indeed wrong. She had help syndrome, which can

694
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 3: be very dangerous, and the doctor was like, this will

695
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 3: kill your wife very soon. But the cure is we

696
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 3: just take the baby out. So she had an emergency

697
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 3: sea section, and so we were very glad to have

698
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 3: excellent medical facilities nearby. And I imagine if you're going

699
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 3: to build a colony on Mars and consider having pregnant

700
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 3: women there, that you're going to want excellent medical facilities there, right.

701
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: Yes, right, And I don't think we've gotten far enough

702
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: in any of our planning to say, like, Okay, the

703
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: third rocket is going to be filled with just equipment

704
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 1: for sea sections and stuff. But there's a lot of

705
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: equipment that we need to keep women and babies alive.

706
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: And that equipment is why we do so well. So

707
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: you know, I ended up having hypertension for both of

708
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: my pregnancies. I had to be induced, which meant I

709
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: needed oxytocin, which needs to be refrigerated at stable temperatures.

710
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: There was a study in Sub Saharan Africa that found

711
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: that a bunch of women were hemorrhaging. So oxytocin is

712
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: also used not just to induce the contractions that you

713
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: need to start labor, but all so to cause additional

714
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: contractions to pinch off blood vessels and stop hemorrhaging if

715
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: a woman is hemorrhaging at the end of labor, which

716
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: is the way most women die if they're going to

717
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: die in pregnancy. And this oxytocin wasn't working as well

718
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: in some regions of Sub Saharan Africa, and the hypothesis

719
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: was that somewhere along the trip that it made to

720
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: Sub Saharan Africa, the refrigeration broke down and this, like

721
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: unsteady temperature, caused it to not be as effective.

722
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 3: So it only needs to be cold when you delivered.

723
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 3: It needs to never have been warmed up.

724
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: Ever, Yes, so you need backup refrigerators. You need to

725
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: figure out how much oxytocin you need. You need a

726
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: sea section equipment. You need blood pressure medication and that

727
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: needs to be shelf stable for as long as it's

728
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: going to take for resupply to get out there. There's

729
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: just a lot of stuff that keeps humans alive in

730
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 1: western countries that you know. Some people tell me, hey, look,

731
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: we don't have to bring that stuff with us. There

732
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: are women who give birth all over the world without

733
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: that stuff, And well that's true. I think I think

734
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: that our lack of ability to provide adequate medical care

735
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 1: to women in like remote region isn't good. It's not

736
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: something we should be bringing with us out into space.

737
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: We shouldn't be like, oh, we do it there, we'll

738
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:07,959
Speaker 1: do it in space too. But I've gotten off track.

739
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: There's a lot of planting that you need to do.

740
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: Mars offers a couple unique additional challenges. That regolith on

741
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: Mars is worse in some ways than that reguleth on

742
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: the Moon. And one of the ways that it's worse

743
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: is that it's laced with perchlorates. These are endocrine disrupting chemicals.

744
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: They mess with the stuff that your thyroid does, and

745
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: the Food and Drug Administration warns that for fetuses, being

746
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: exposed to perchlorates can mess with nervous system developments.

747
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 3: But what are perchlorates? Are they an organic molecule. How

748
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 3: they made? Like, why do they exist on Mars not

749
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 3: the moon?

750
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: The Moon has a lot less of a bunch of

751
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: things like carbon, nitrogen, phosphorus. The Moon just sort of

752
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,240
Speaker 1: generally seems to be poor and a bunch of stuff.

753
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: Mars has more stuff available to be reacted with and

754
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: somehow that results in perchlorates would be my best answer,

755
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: But do you think you can sort of summarize it.

756
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 3: Well, I'm definitely not a chemist, but perchlorates our combination

757
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 3: and oxygen, and I think there is more chlorine in

758
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 3: the Martian soil and then the UV hits that and

759
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 3: forms these perchlorates. But basically, these things are a simple

760
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 3: chemical compound, but they're bad for us. Can you tell

761
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 3: us why they're bad? Firms? From like the biological point

762
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: of view? Why is this thing so dangerous for fetuses?

763
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: Sure? So, I believe the answer is that our thyroid

764
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: there's a iodine that our thyroid collects and uses to

765
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: make hormones, and perchlorate sort of interrupt the ability of

766
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 1: the thyroid to use the iodine to make the hormones

767
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: that it usually makes, and when that gets disrupted, you

768
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: get problems with metabolism and nervous system development.

769
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 3: So that sounds especially bad for fetuses.

770
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah. And a reason that this becomes particularly relevant

771
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: is not just because if you go outside you might

772
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: accidentally bring it back in if you get regolith on

773
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 1: your suit, but also when you grow plants in dirt

774
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: or soil that has perchlorates, the perchlorates get pulled out

775
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: of the soil and go into the plant tissues. So

776
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: if you're growing your plants in either water that has

777
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: happened to take up some perchlorates because perchlorates are water soluble,

778
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: or you haven't gotten all the perchlorates out of the dirt.

779
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: If you decide that you're going to like be old

780
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: fashioned and grow your food in the dirt, then you

781
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 1: have to be concerned that mom's taking in these perchlorates.

782
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 3: Wow, so mom can't eat any food grown on native

783
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 3: Martian soil basically.

784
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 1: Well, so this is where I can hear the space

785
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: settlement advocates yelling while you're over selling the difficulty. It's

786
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: water soluble, so you could just bring regulyth in and

787
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 1: then rinse RNs, rins insurances, rens, rents, rent rents until

788
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,800
Speaker 1: it's gone, and then you could grow in it, but

789
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: now you also have to make sure that you don't

790
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: have chlorates in your water. And I talked to a

791
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: friend of mine who's a geologist who works with perchlorates,

792
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: and I was like, does that sound like just print

793
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: RNs rents are insurants? Problem solved? And he goes, I

794
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: don't know, man. All I can tell you is that

795
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: I only work with this stuff in fume hoods. That's

796
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: how nasty it is. I will only work with this

797
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: if there's a fume hood on. So I would be concerned.

798
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 1: Like when we bought our farm, if they had said, well,

799
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: if you rinse the soil the endercrendisrupt chemicals that are

800
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: in there, yeah, it'll be fine. You can still grow

801
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: food for your family, I'd be like, I'm living somewhere else.

802
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: So anyway, you're just gonna have to be really careful

803
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: to make sure that this like pretty nasty toxin doesn't

804
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: get into your food or water in any way. But

805
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: let's take a break and then we will talk about

806
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 1: what will happen if it turns out that Martian gravity

807
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: is just not going to work for human reproduction. All right,

808
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: So what if you get to the moon and you

809
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: find out that reproduction is just not working at one

810
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 1: sixth of Earth's gravity. You know, like moms bones are breaking,

811
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: she doesn't have the right muscles for contractions. The baby

812
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: is just not developing at all, and it's just you know,

813
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: development for the baby is just not going according to plan.

814
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 3: And this is not outrageous. Right, Basically every human ever

815
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 3: conceived and carried and born has been within one G

816
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 3: and using the benefit of the Earth's atmosphere, and so

817
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 3: there's reasons why evolution may be dependent on it. Right,

818
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 3: It wouldn't be ridiculous to discover that these are necessary

819
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 3: for humans to conceive in birth successfully, right, right.

820
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 1: Yes, this is the environment we're adapted to. It wouldn't

821
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: be surprising to me if we needed And so you know,

822
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: maybe some people would say, Okay, it didn't work on

823
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 1: the Moon, but the Moon has one sixth of Earth's gravity.

824
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: Maybe Mars's forty percent will be enounced. So maybe we

825
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: go out there and we discover actually, the rodents can't

826
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: make it work at forty percent either. We talked to

827
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: some space settlement advocates who are like, well, there's another solution,

828
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 1: maybe you just need Earth gravity. Well, you're pregnant, in

829
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,760
Speaker 1: which case we can put you on like a banked

830
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 1: racetrack and create one g And I puked a lot

831
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: during my pregnancy. I think I would be puking a

832
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 1: lot more under that scenario.

833
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 3: I'm imagining those devices they use to test astronauts for

834
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 3: high GI where they like put them in those chairs

835
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 3: and then spin them around. And you're saying, no bed rest,

836
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 3: You got to sit in one of those things the

837
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 3: whole pregnancy, Oh my god, I.

838
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 1: Mean, Or maybe you only need to sit in it

839
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: at night, like eight you just sleep in it eight

840
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: hours a day. Maybe that's enough to make you strong enough.

841
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: Like we just we really don't know. But say, say

842
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: women decide they don't want to do that, they don't

843
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: want to spend their pregnancies on a banked racetrack. The

844
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: rotating space settlement people argue that now they are the

845
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: only game in town. So these rotating space settlements, they

846
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: are these giant structures. They can take a variety of

847
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: different shapes, but the one that I immediately imagine looks

848
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: sort of like a bike wheel and it kind of

849
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: spins and you live around the rim and you can

850
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: simulate gravity by spinning fast enough.

851
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 3: So you're saying, if it's not possible to have babies

852
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 3: in Martian gravity and nobody wants to sit in one

853
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 3: of those spinning racetracks, then you basically can't be on

854
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 3: the surface of Mars. You have to go up into

855
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 3: space and simulate Earth grapt in a space station.

856
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe you could just put on like an

857
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: incredibly weighted suit on Mars so that you maybe that

858
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: would keep your muscles and bones strong enough. We just

859
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 1: we don't know. I'm saying that it's possible that we

860
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: will discover there's no easy solution to forty percent Martian gravity,

861
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: and then the rotating space station people can stand up

862
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: at the conferences and say we won, we won.

863
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 3: But also you're just talking about the pregnancy itself. What

864
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 3: about the development of the kid, right, Like, what if

865
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 3: you need gravity to grow up into a normal human being,

866
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 3: then this kid's going to be on a racetrack until

867
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:37,959
Speaker 3: they're eighteen or up into space.

868
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: You can't go back down to Mars, right And so

869
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 1: I feel like this is where questions about social issues

870
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: start to come into play, Like what if some people

871
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: want to live on the surface of Mars, but moms

872
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: and children need to live in these rotating space stations.

873
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: You know what kind of social dynamics does that create?

874
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: And you know, maybe you only need to live in

875
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 1: a rotating space station if the child ever wants the

876
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 1: option of returning to Earth. Maybe you can develop on

877
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: Mars if you never plan on leaving. Like we just

878
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: we don't know how this kind of stuff will play out,

879
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: Like this is the current state of our knowledge.

880
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 3: What a crazy decision you'd have to make for your kids,

881
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 3: Like you get to grow up on Mars, but you

882
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 3: can never go to Earth. That would be insane.

883
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: I mean, Earth is so awesome, Like I mean, I

884
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: can imagine my family moved from Ireland to New York City,

885
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: and I can imagine someone being like, well, what if

886
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: if you're born in New York City but then you

887
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: never get to go back to Ireland, Like what are

888
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: you doing to your child?

889
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 3: Well, you should feel responsible for raising your kids in Virginia.

890
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 3: I mean, they didn't have a choice in that, right,

891
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 3: they have to always tell people they come from Virginia.

892
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,240
Speaker 3: You settle them with that their whole lives.

893
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 1: They seem very happy, They seem very happy, and in fact,

894
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: you know when we lived in California, we experienced an earthquake,

895
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 1: and I think that would scare Ada quite a bit

896
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: if she had been a bit older.

897
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 3: She just they just have to learn to ride it out.

898
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 7: You know.

899
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 3: It's fun. It's like a theme park ride.

900
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 2: You know.

901
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 1: She also is I hope she doesn't listen to this episode.

902
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: She's a little scared of some theme park ride. Me too, Yeah, yeah, no,

903
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: some of them are intense. When I went to Cedar

904
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: Point last time, I like the rides that I used

905
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: to love. Now when I go around the corner, I like,

906
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:09,800
Speaker 1: you know, my arms are in the air, I'm screaming,

907
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: and then I pass out around the corner, which makes

908
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: me think I'm probably not a good candidate for those

909
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: banked race tracks either, spend the whole time passed out.

910
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 3: One more reason why you shouldn't go to space.

911
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: As if we needed another one.

912
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 3: All right, So we were talking about having moms and

913
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 3: maybe even their kids in high G environments near Mars.

914
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 3: If we think that it's probably not possible to carry

915
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 3: the pregnancy and give birth and maybe raise your kids

916
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 3: in Martian gravity.

917
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,399
Speaker 1: You could abandon the Mars plan altogether. With and these

918
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: rotating space stations could go anywhere. So a lot of

919
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: the places that they're proposed are at like Lagrange points,

920
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: where the gravitational pull of various objects more or less

921
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 1: cancels out, so you don't have to use a lot

922
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: of fuel to stay in one place. But you know,

923
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: you could put them near the asteroid belts for resources,

924
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 1: or near the moon or whatever. They could go anywhere.

925
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 3: I like your zz top pronunciation of Lagrange points. That's awesome.

926
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 1: Oh now, how am I supposed to say it?

927
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 3: Well? I think it's not named after the town in

928
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 3: Texas Lagrange, but probably the French mathematician Lagrange. But you know,

929
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 3: maybe I'm wrong.

930
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm thinking about all the conferences I've been

931
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: to now where I've said they're wrong. That was good.

932
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: I also apparently have been saying magnetosphere. It's magnetosphere or

933
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: something I've been Anyway, I'm an embarrassment to my children

934
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: and always will be.

935
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 3: No, I'm going to talk about Lagrange gians from now

936
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 3: on in particle physics.

937
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: Okay, good, Well, your class will be more interesting because

938
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 1: of it, I'm sure exactly. But you know, these rotating

939
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: space stations, it's worth noting they're going to be difficult

940
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: engineering challenges, and we haven't built them yet. So, like,

941
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: you know, if you think about how big the International

942
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 1: Space Station is, to make a station that could hold

943
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: a lot of people and not have to spin so

944
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: many times that you'd feel sick due to the spinning,

945
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: you would probably want it so that the wheel of

946
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: the rotating space station could fit around the International Space Station.

947
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: So you know, I guess the diameter of the wheel

948
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: would be the same as the length of the International

949
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 1: Space Station at its widest point. And already the International

950
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: Space Station is one of the most expensive things that

951
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: has ever been made, and it's not rotating, and so

952
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: when you start, you know, thinking about how you're going

953
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,120
Speaker 1: to make these, it's going to be tough. Not possible,

954
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: but it's going to be tough, and it's not the

955
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 1: kind of thing that, like, you know, if Musk sends

956
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: people to Mars and they start reproducing in the next

957
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: few decades, these sort of rotating space stations might not

958
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: be available yet so that you could like shuttle them

959
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: up there to try to save their lives.

960
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 3: But Kelly, I've heard entrepreneurs say with confidence, will have

961
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 3: our first rotating space hotel in twenty twenty seven. Are

962
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 3: you saying that's over sold?

963
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's probably over sold. I mean

964
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,919
Speaker 1: I could be wrong. Rotating space hotel by twenty twenty

965
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: seven really.

966
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 3: Huh m hmmm, okay with great confidence?

967
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: Wow, And is it going to be rotating at one

968
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: g or just providing enough gravity that you're not going

969
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 1: to be incomplete free fall?

970
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know.

971
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: I feel like you want at least enough gravity to

972
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: make sure that, like when you're in the bathroom, everything

973
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: moves in the direction you want it to. That makes

974
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: everything cleaner.

975
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 3: Well, maybe they can have a swimming pool at the

976
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 3: center of it, like a zero G bubble of water

977
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 3: really can float in. That would be amazing.

978
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 1: Did you watch there was a movie with Chris Pratt

979
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: and Jennifer lawrenceingers, Yeah, where the gravity gave out and

980
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: the fiction and the water in the pool was anyway,

981
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: that was a scary scene. But yeah, okay, So maybe

982
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: we will have tourist hotels by twenty twenty seven. I'm

983
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: a little skeptical. I don't think they're going to be

984
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: out at Mars at that point, and I don't think

985
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: they're going to be big enough to be a permanent

986
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 1: housing structure for thousands of people. I could be wrong,

987
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 1: So there's one other place that folks propose if it

988
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: turns out gravity is a problem. And you are probably well,

989
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: you know me, so you're probably not going to be

990
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 1: surprised what the answer is because I've probably oh yeah,

991
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: because you were on the call where we interviewed Guermo

992
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 1: Sunline for Daniel and Jorge explain the universe. But yes,

993
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: Venus is the other place where people are proposing.

994
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 3: Venus is the goddess of fertility, right, so oh.

995
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:03,240
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, appropriate, And no one's proposing the surface of Venus.

996
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 3: And why is that, Daniel, Because the surface of Venus

997
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 3: is totally inhospitable. It's very high temperature, it's very high pressure.

998
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 3: It's crazy like the things we've landed on the surface

999
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,479
Speaker 3: of Venus have lasted for like minutes or hours before

1000
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 3: being melted and crushed. It's also like sulfuric acid rain.

1001
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 3: It's basically not the kind of place you'd want to go,

1002
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 3: even if you were like the rock. Not to mention

1003
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 3: a baby.

1004
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 1: Anytime I read about Venus, it's always compared unfavorably to Hell,

1005
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:33,760
Speaker 1: and as being like worse than Hell. But some folks

1006
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: note that if you are up in the atmosphere, there's

1007
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: a part of the atmosphere where you are like above

1008
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: the sulfuric acid clouds and you're experiencing one G and

1009
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: the atmosphere is thick enough to protect you from space radiation.

1010
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: So if you can make a floating environment, then you

1011
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: could have the one G that maybe we're going to

1012
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: need to have babies. And so you know, I think

1013
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: the humans to Venus people would say, if we think

1014
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 1: this gravity thing is a serious problem, we should be

1015
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: serious about floating habitats in Venus.

1016
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 3: That only makes sense to me if you want to

1017
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,320
Speaker 3: live on Venus anyway, Why otherwise would you go to

1018
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 3: Venus to have babies, Right, Like, if you're going to

1019
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 3: colonize Venus. Sure it's nice if you're going to have

1020
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 3: babies on Venus, but if your goal is to colonize

1021
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 3: Mars and explore the outer Solar system, doesn't seem to

1022
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 3: me to me much in advantage to have like a

1023
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 3: terrible floating place just above Hell that you could also

1024
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 3: go to to have babies.

1025
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: Well, so I think they're saying that we just need

1026
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 1: to find the places in our solar system where we

1027
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: can create self sustaining settlements, and that we haven't been

1028
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,320
Speaker 1: serious enough about considering Venus as one of those places.

1029
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: So this isn't just like a nice place you go

1030
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: during your pregnancy vacation. This is like where humans are

1031
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 1: going to live out their lives and have families.

1032
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 3: Oh, I seem forever, let's move closer to the Sun

1033
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 3: instead of going out to explore the universe. I don't know,

1034
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 3: it feels like going backwards to me. Not a big

1035
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 3: fan of move in Venus.

1036
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not signing up for any of these plans,

1037
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 1: to be honest. So so I thought maybe we could

1038
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: wrap up by talking about how optimistic I am that

1039
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: we're going to be able to get this research done

1040
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: before the tourists start giving us the answers. And to

1041
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: be honest, I'm not super optimistic right now. So, as

1042
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: I mentioned, NASA's super squeamish about funding stuff like this,

1043
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: So we're not getting government funding, and it's hard to

1044
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: imagine companies being able to find profitable routes to finding

1045
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 1: the answers to these reproduction questions.

1046
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 3: Well, I know you don't like Elon Musk questions. But

1047
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 3: do you think Elon's new influence on the government might

1048
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 3: change that because he's a big proponent of making the

1049
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 3: species interplanetary, and I know he likes to rush to

1050
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 3: the sexy bits without necessarily doing all the homework. But

1051
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 3: do you think like doing studies about pregnancy and childbirth

1052
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 3: and space could maybe tickle those guys fancy?

1053
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 1: I mean, that could be a silver lining. Musk does

1054
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: not seem concerned about these questions. It doesn't seem to

1055
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: me like he would want to be pushing the government

1056
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: to spend a bunch of money to get the answers

1057
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: to these questions. I think he feels like we will

1058
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 1: go out there and find the answers to these questions

1059
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: when we.

1060
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 3: Get there, maybe with tragic consequences.

1061
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that they that Musk and

1062
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:09,759
Speaker 1: others think that, you know, people like me are way

1063
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: too risk averse. It'll probably be fine, and if not,

1064
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: we'll just let natural selection take care of things, which

1065
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:17,879
Speaker 1: is of course, like that means a lot of death.

1066
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: It's like a way that hides the fact that lots

1067
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: of death could happen. It would be great if there

1068
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 1: were funding. I think there are a couple companies that

1069
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: are trying to study reproduction in space with the hopes

1070
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: that the research will produce patentable technologies that can then

1071
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: be used to pay for like the next step in

1072
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: the process. I hope that works out. It's hard for

1073
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: me to imagine, Like, I don't know. Maybe maybe you

1074
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: do learn something about reproduction of microgravity that produces some technology.

1075
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 1: That would be great.

1076
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 3: But people having babies on Earth in risky environments, you know,

1077
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 3: people living in the Ukraine near Chernobyl exposed to higher

1078
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 3: radiation or whatever. Can we do something learning from those

1079
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 3: experiences those risks people are already deciding to take and

1080
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 3: extrapolating from there.

1081
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a great question. So the radiation and

1082
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: Chernobyl that we would maybe be learned something from is

1083
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: different than the kind of radiation we expect we're going

1084
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 1: to experience in space, So I don't think you're going

1085
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: to get a lot of great data from that.

1086
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 3: What about pregnant stewardesses, because they spend a lot of

1087
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 3: time at high altitude and they're exposed to more space radiation.

1088
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: If it turned out that they had more radiation associated

1089
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,239
Speaker 1: issues with their pregnancies, that would be good reason for

1090
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: us to worry. But if they were fine, that wouldn't mean,

1091
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: for example, that things like partial gravity is not going

1092
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 1: to be a problem anymore. So there are some environments

1093
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: that give us some insights, but the data are going

1094
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: to be hard to collect in a systematic way, mostly

1095
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: because of ethics associated with, you know, doing experiments with

1096
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: humans like you wouldn't want to send the pregnant stewardess

1097
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 1: up like more often to see if the extra radiation

1098
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 1: causes problems.

1099
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 3: You and your friend Cap o'hennon have a show on

1100
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 3: exactly this question, don't you.

1101
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. So she wrote this book called Eve about the

1102
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,320
Speaker 1: evolution of the female reproductive system, and she contacted me

1103
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: and she was like, you know how much reproduction sucks

1104
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: on Earth. I'm like an expert in that, and you're

1105
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 1: an expert in how awful space is. We should do

1106
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 1: a show together where we sort of jokingly inform people

1107
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 1: about that. We could hire some artists to create outfits

1108
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: that sort of imagine ways we might be able to

1109
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:09,720
Speaker 1: help women have safe pregnancies and labors in this environment.

1110
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: And we did the show at the MIT Museum, and

1111
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 1: we're going to do it at the Royal Institute of

1112
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 1: London on April seventeenth, and we might have a couple

1113
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: other shows in the UK. We were there, so you know,

1114
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: maybe we can all laugh about this problem together.

1115
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,080
Speaker 3: If you don't have answers, at least we have jokes.

1116
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: That's right.

1117
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 3: The motto of this podcast is well, that's right.

1118
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: It's you know, the best way I know to live

1119
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: a life.

1120
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 3: All right. So let me end by asking you when

1121
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 3: do you think the first baby's going to be born

1122
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 3: on Mars? If you had to put a year on it.

1123
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: So I think the answer is going to depend on

1124
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: geopolitics and stuff like that. I would like the answer

1125
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: to be thirty years from now or something, because I

1126
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,439
Speaker 1: think thirty years would be the right amount of time

1127
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: to sort of biology research can't be rushed in a

1128
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 1: lot of ways, Like you just you have to live

1129
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: through the generations that it takes. And you know, if

1130
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: you can successfully have a baby on the moon, you

1131
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 1: probably want to stay there for a couple of years

1132
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 1: to make sure they develop, okay, and maybe that they

1133
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: go through puberty. Okay. So I just I feel like

1134
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 1: we want to do this slowly, but I can also

1135
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: imagine that you know, with Musk's newfound geopolitical clout. If

1136
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: he is able to stay on his timeline, he could

1137
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: have people finding the answer in what I think are

1138
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 1: unethical ways much sooner. So I guess I hope the

1139
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: answer is decades.

1140
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 3: But do you fear it might just be a few years?

1141
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, what do you think?

1142
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 3: I think it'd be foolish to predict the future, That's

1143
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 3: what I think. So I'm curious to see what happens.

1144
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,800
Speaker 1: I'm curious and scared. So anyway, write your senators and

1145
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: tell them that they should be funding sex and space.

1146
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 3: That's right, and let's hope that the first baby's born

1147
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,760
Speaker 3: in space and on Mars are happy and healthy.

1148
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 1: See you next week. Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe is

1149
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: produced by iHeart. We would love to hear from you,

1150
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 1: We really would.

1151
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 3: We want to know what questions you have about this

1152
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:07,760
Speaker 3: Extraordinary Universe.

1153
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: We want to know your thoughts on recent shows, suggestions

1154
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 1: for future shows. If you contact us, we will get

1155
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 1: back to you.

1156
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 3: We really mean it. We answer every message. Email us

1157
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 3: at Questions at Danielankelly.

1158
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,359
Speaker 1: Dot org, or you can find us on social media.

1159
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: We have accounts on x, Instagram, Blue Sky and on

1160
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 1: all of those platforms, you can find us at D

1161
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,240
Speaker 1: and K universe.

1162
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 3: Don't be shy right to us