1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg sound On. 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: We have a laural obligation to do everything we can 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: to prevent an unnecessary cloth flow. It is the US 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: that's threatening peace and stability in the Taiwan straight. Taiwan 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: is part of China's territory. Professional delegations have gone to 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: Taiwan for decades and they will continue to Bloomberg sound 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: on politics, policy and perspective from DC's top names. Florida 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: is the state where woke goes to die, and we 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: don't say to Senator One is where you hit Scaracap. 10 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. China 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: resumes military drills around Taiwan after another US delegation to 12 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: the island. Welcome to the fastest hour in politics, as 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: tensions rise across the region. Will be joined by a 14 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: member of that delegation. Just back. Democratic Congressman John Garamendi 15 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: serves on the House Services Committee. Later, electoral politics on 16 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: this primary eve. Florida Governor Ronda Santis running unopposed in 17 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: tomorrow's primary, but he's raising more money than Donald Trump. 18 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: Will talk about why and his impacts in these elections 19 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: with Republican strategist Adam Goodman. Analysis from our panel. The 20 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: signature panel in place. Jeanie Schanzano and Rick Davis are 21 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors. The delegations just keep coming in Taiwan. 22 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: It's been a busy airport lately. After Nancy Pelosi's, of course, 23 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: much heralded visit, this time an American governor shows up, 24 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: Eric Holcomb of Indiana, arriving in Taipei for what he 25 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: calls an economic development trip, something that would not typically 26 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: make any news. And by the way, it's the second 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: time he's gone no, it didn't make news the first time. 28 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: That follows The latest congressional delegation just last week included 29 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: our next guest. As a matter of fact, Congressman John Garamendi. 30 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: It was led by Senator Ed Markey, the Democrat of Massachusetts. 31 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: Here's markis, as the group met with Taiwan's president side 32 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: at this moment of uncertainty, we must do everything we 33 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: can to maintain peace and stability for Taiwan. We have 34 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: a moral obligation to do everything we can to prevent 35 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: an unnecessary conflict, and Taiwan has demonstrated incredible restraint and 36 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: discretion during challenging times. The reaction from China, guess what 37 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: more drills? China's Eastern Theater Command says immediately after its 38 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: organizing war patrols and combat drills in the sen air 39 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: space around Taiwan. It's it's Senior Colonel Shi Yi, calling 40 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: it a stern deterrent to the US and Taiwan playing 41 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: political tricks. The message back from the State Department, get 42 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: used to it, Here's spokesman Ned Price. Some ten or 43 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: more congressional delegations have visited Taiwan uh this year alone. 44 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: Members of Congress visiting thai one is entirely in line 45 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: with our one, our longstanding one China policy. Congressman John Garamendi, 46 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: as I mentioned, was one of the members of that 47 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: last delegation that they were just talking about, the Democrat 48 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: from California on the House Armed Services Committee, and he 49 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: joins US now Congress mcgarremandy, welcome back. We saw images 50 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: and video video of you on this trip. It was 51 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: relatively small group. But what's the point here, following the 52 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: trip that Nancy Pelosi took in all of the drama 53 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: that surrounded it, is this about frequency? Now? Like Ned 54 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: Price is saying, We're just gonna keep showing up and 55 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: showing up until it's not a story. Well, I think 56 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: it's extremely important that we do show up, and think 57 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: it's extremely important that we maintain an open huh and 58 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: consistent policy with Taiwan. Uh. What China has tried to 59 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: do periodically is to establish a new normal. They would 60 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: surely like to see all of this going and forward 61 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: being a new normal in which they are surrounding Taiwan 62 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: with a fleet of ships and missiles and so on. Uh, 63 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: that's not likely to happen. But what we have is 64 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: some seventy years now of a relationship with Taiwan. We 65 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: recognize that it is part of China, but nonetheless it 66 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: is a very robust democracy and an extremely important international 67 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: trading partner with the United States. When you see the 68 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: reaction as we have yet again from Beijing, more drills 69 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: and encircling the island in a way that we haven't seen, 70 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: uh kind of you know, you talk about a new normal, 71 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: they've definitely ratcheted up the levels of of of tension 72 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,119 Speaker 1: in the region. Here. Following Pelosi's trip and following your trip, 73 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: at what point do you worry that that that is 74 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: the new normal, that it's already been exposed here. Well, 75 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: that's why we have to continue to visit. That's why 76 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: investal allegations need to be there. That's why we need 77 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: to maintain a relationship with them. Do you not take 78 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: China at its word that they that they will respond, 79 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: that they will respond with severe consequences. I do not 80 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: believe China is interested in a war that they're not 81 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: likely to be able to win. UH. Taiwan is fully 82 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: determined to protect its democracy and to not be become 83 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: another Hong Kong. We saw what happened in Hong Kong, 84 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: one country, two systems, well until UH Beijing decided there'd 85 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: be one system and they just simply shut down all 86 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: all civil liberties in Hong Kong. And Taiwan is not 87 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: about to have that happen to them. They are prepared 88 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: to defend their democracy. At some point in the future, 89 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: there may very well be an opportunity for Taiwan to 90 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: rejoin mainland China. That's certainly not the case. Now we 91 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: have what amounts to an authority jerry and dictatorship in China. 92 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: They've already shown that they're perfectly willing to shut down 93 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: any dissent, whether it is in the Southwest or or 94 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: in Hong Kong, and Taiwan wants no part of that. 95 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: And frankly, Taiwan is an important, very very important part 96 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 1: of the world economy. We saw you meet with Taiwan's president, 97 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: as I mentioned, along with members of the delegation. Congressman, 98 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: what's what's the conversation when the reporters leave the room 99 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: and you get down to what to whatever extent you 100 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: get into serious conversation here as a member of the 101 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: House Armed Services Committee, is there is there an ask 102 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: for a commitment to help defend Taiwan or is there 103 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: an ask for more weapons? What do they want? Are 104 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: they want more weapons? American policy is quite clear. We're 105 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,679 Speaker 1: not going to stand troops onto the onto the island. 106 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 1: That's not going to happen. However, we have for the 107 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: last having a hard time hearing your Congress when I 108 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: don't know what happened to your Sorry not at all 109 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: to try to do better right now, very good. America 110 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: has provided Taiwan with weapons for fifty years or more, 111 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: and we're going to continue to do so. The United States. 112 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: It's not going to be putting troops on the island 113 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: to defend Taiwan. That's up to the Taiwan needs to do. 114 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: So what we have here is a sexual student in 115 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: which the United States and you asked what what did 116 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: the president asked? They asked for the weapons. There's a 117 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: whole series of weapons that have and requested. They're being 118 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: worked through and they should be delivered very very soon. 119 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: Is that a deterrent for China or is that to 120 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: help Taiwan and protect itself from the inevitable. It is 121 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: a deterrent, and the United States remains of deterrent. We're 122 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: not about to move out of the South China Sea, 123 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: nor are we going to allow China to close the 124 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: Taiwan Straight I would expect that in the United States, 125 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: maybe we'll do what it's done periodically, and that is 126 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: to run uh uh destroyers d dgs through the Taiwan 127 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: Straits as we have periodically. We we believe that that 128 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: is an open see subject to the will of the 129 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: individual nations that want to travel through it, and I'm 130 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: sure that we will continue to do that. We're not 131 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: going to just turn our back on Taiwan either with 132 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: the with not providing military weapons Toime on could consider itself, 133 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: and this is sometimes discussed as a porcupine. China thinks 134 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: that they can swallow this porcupine. They may find it 135 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: to be a very, very difficult and an unpleasant experience. 136 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: Well they can ask Russia about that too. I suppose, Congressman, 137 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: they're they're watching this take place. Of course, at the 138 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: very same time. Here, it's difficult to tell where this goes. 139 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,719 Speaker 1: I'm hearing you speak very sternly about this, and I'm 140 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: hearing China say they don't even believe in the Median 141 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: line anymore. At what point, Congressman Garamendi, is the time 142 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: for the US to take a new look at china 143 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 1: One policy, the One China policy, and maybe what our 144 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: position is on this. Well, it's it has been clear 145 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: for at least four to five decades that a declaration 146 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: of independent independence by Taiwan is a red line for China, 147 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: and I would suspect that they would cross that red 148 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: line and there would be a bloody, difficult battle all 149 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: the way along. But we're not there. UH. To the 150 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: American policy as understands, one China also understands that Taiwan 151 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: UH does not want to become another Hong Kong that 152 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: they want that they value their democracy and trying to 153 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: read value that democracy to And so I think what 154 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: we're going to find here is that things will settle 155 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: down UH and that the new normal ought to be 156 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: the old normal. We don't want to have China close 157 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: the Taiwan straits, nor do we want Chinese to believe 158 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: they can encircle UH Taiwan. And what would be at 159 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: least a demonstration of a blockade and could easily turn 160 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: into a blockade. It sounds like a lot more lawmakers 161 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: are planning to go to Taiwan, will be further delegations, 162 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: and I know even Kevin McCarthy said if he becomes 163 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: Speaker he wants to lead a bipartisan delegation as one 164 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: of his first moves. Would you join the Republican UH 165 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: leader on a trip like that? I do want to 166 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: know that there was a Republican in this codel that 167 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: you were on as well. Indeed, are we into the 168 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: bipartisan delegation? We also well, first of all, McCarthy is 169 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: not going to become the not going to become speaker. 170 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: If he wants to go as a minority of VITA, 171 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: he can certainly do that. And if he were gonna 172 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: invite me have known him for years, AH and his 173 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 1: company would always be appreciated. But he's not going to 174 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: be speaker. I believe that the Democrats we now have 175 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 1: the wind that our back with the legislation that has 176 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 1: been passed, the infrastructure, the Inflation Reduction Act, the healthcare 177 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: cost savings that are that are going to be there 178 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: for seniors and for well for everybody. Uh, and we're 179 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: going to move very very aggressively on the green economy. 180 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: So you think you're going to keep the house? Those 181 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: what you're saying, Democrats keep the House. I think we've 182 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: got a really good shot at take in the House, 183 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: and the analysis has been really something over the last 184 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: couple of days. On this Congressman, I want to thank 185 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: you for joining us. John Garamendi, Democrat from California, fresh 186 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: off the Code Alta Taiwan. We're gonna get into that more, 187 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: by the way, the sort of shifting landscape as we 188 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: had the mid terms later on this hour, but we 189 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: want to assemble the panel first on this. Do we 190 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: overwhelm China with more codeell's than they can keep track of? 191 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: And what does this mean? About Joe Biden's meeting coming 192 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: up with President she Rick Davis, Jeanie Sanzano with us 193 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: with international politics to start us off. We turned domestic 194 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: later on on this primary Eve and I'm glad you're here. 195 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: It's great to be back. I'm Joe Matthew and Washington. 196 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on 197 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. So everybody's going to 198 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 1: Taiwan now, Members of Congress, governors. I suspect anyone who 199 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: wants to be perceived as a presidential contender gotta show 200 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: up in Taipei. Starting to think we bring this broadcast 201 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: just to talk to them all. That's where they're all going. 202 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: Let's assemble our panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and 203 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,839 Speaker 1: Jeanie Schanzano. I missed you both. Rick. Does this strategy 204 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: lull Beijing into complacency, which seems to be the State 205 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: Department's thought on this, or does it inflame tensions until 206 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: we simply have no relationship any longer with Beijing? You know, 207 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 1: I don't think it does either one of those things. 208 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: First of all, definitely doesn't lull them into complacency. They 209 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: are not going to be compliant in any way, shape 210 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: or form. We lost the fight of trying to bring 211 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 1: China into the liberal democracies of the world, and now 212 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: they are charting their own path. They want to bring 213 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,479 Speaker 1: liberal democracies under their wing. And so it's a competition. 214 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: It's not a matter of sort of placating China anymore. 215 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: And I think that the focus that this administration is 216 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: starting to have, and it's the right for Congress to 217 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: do it too, is Hey, let's focus on Taiwan. It's 218 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: a thriving democracy, it's a key component to our national security. 219 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: It supplies us with the majority of the chips that 220 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: have been so important to our development and and and 221 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: on their own, they have proven their ability to function 222 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: as a as a thriving economy in a very tough neighborhood. 223 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: So let's open up the spicket. And and these trips 224 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: are not unusual. They're just now getting irritating China. That's 225 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: because of China's change in focus, not ours. What do 226 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: you make of the conversation with Congressman Garamendi about this genie, Uh, 227 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: it's almost just about showing up here. I mean that's 228 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: really what we're talking about, right, I know that Taipei 229 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: wants weapons. They're making that ask too. In this case, 230 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: you know, it's appropriate. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee has 231 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: represented their House Arms Services between Marki and Garamendi. But 232 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: but what else are we doing? I mean, there's gonna 233 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: be a lot of delegations. We heard ten of them, uh, 234 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: coming from the State Department here. Kevin McCarthy can't wait 235 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: to get on an airplane. Does this at some point 236 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: start to backfire? Or is it exactly what we should 237 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: be doing. I'm gonna stop packing for my trip with 238 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: SODAN to Taiwan so we can chat. Yeah, you know, 239 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: I think that one thing we have to be clear 240 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: on is that we talk a lot about this as 241 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: you know, being precipitated by these visits, but it's really 242 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: much bigger than that, and it's driven by much larger factors. 243 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: There's been a steady erosion in relations for several years, 244 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: and some scholars describe us as in the early stages 245 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: of the Fourth Taiwan Straight Crisis from nineteen fifty four 246 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: and now about two thousand and eighteen, perhaps during the 247 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: Trump administration into the Biden administration and that's really where 248 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: we are. And I think the very scary part of 249 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: this for for all of us is the fact that 250 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: tensions are so wratcheted up that there is a possibility 251 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:31,119 Speaker 1: for miscalculations and mistakes which can be deadly and escalating. 252 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: And that's something we really have to be careful. That's 253 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: not to say people should not visit, but that is 254 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: to say Beijing, certainly, Washington, Taypei have to be very 255 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: very careful about responses, understanding that mistakes happen when they 256 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: are using the military exercises that they're using, and that's 257 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: a real danger. New joint exercises, the biggest since Rick, 258 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: between the US and South Korea just beginning them. Uh 259 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: today all Chief Freedom Shield. This is an annual event 260 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: and you've probably seen video of it. It's airplanes and 261 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: tanks and warships and infantry uh and they're they're popping 262 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: off weapons and making a big show of it. UH. 263 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: Kind of a renewal though, because this the Trump administration 264 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: pulled back from some of this stuff. Rick. Is this 265 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: all about China or should we be talking about North 266 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: Korea as well? I think definitely, Uh, we want to 267 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: be talking about North Korea. Like, these guys have been 268 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: really haunting Japan and South Korea for some time. Uh, 269 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: they've been launching missile missiles into the region, UH with 270 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: abandoned And I think this is one of the hottest 271 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: spots in the world right, I mean, North Korea has 272 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: threatened military action over and over again. And so we 273 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: cannot drop our attention to this most important area if 274 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: it has some residual impact on China. So be it. 275 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: China knows that we have these permanent bases in South 276 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: Korea and in Japan, and and and I think again, 277 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:07,479 Speaker 1: the focus on helping our allies and partners in the region, 278 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: Japan and South Korea in this instance, to build their militaries, 279 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: make them more modern and increase their readiness is only 280 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: because the neighborhood China and North Korea have gotten more 281 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: aggressive over time. We are reacting to their aggression, not 282 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: the other way around. What do we need to be 283 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: doing militarily though, And I'll ask you both this as 284 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: we continue to write checks, you know, billions of sending 285 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: billions and hundreds of billions. I guess at some point 286 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: in weapons to Ukraine, we're six months into this thing. 287 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: On Wednesday, and there is a massive looming threat taking 288 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: place in Asia. Rick, do you see them when you 289 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: consider the access between Russia and China the same or 290 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: or decisions, Some hard decisions will need to be made 291 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: when it comes to deploying resources. Well, I think it's 292 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: good news that we're six months in and there's still 293 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 1: a shooting war in the Ukraine, right, I mean, like 294 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: all the people who thought they knew what was going 295 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: to happen would have given up Ukraine in three days. 296 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: And so the fact that the Ukrainians are teaching us 297 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: what resistance means is a very good example that I 298 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: think is being seen in Beijing. You would think that 299 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: they would look at that example and say, Wow, all 300 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: the Russians had to do was cross a land border. 301 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: Look At what kind of problems we would have, you know, 302 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: having to go across sounds like you, I think they're 303 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: connected optically as the White House look at it that way, Jeannie, 304 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: I think they may, but but I would also caution 305 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: China is historically going to take their time, and I 306 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: think the danger here is that they learn how to 307 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: shore themselves up to those kind of economic sanctions the 308 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: world put on Russia. And that's a real danger for 309 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: the West if that happens. Great conversation with Rick and Jeannie. 310 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: They're here all our will reassemble the panel a bit 311 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: later as we turn to electoral politics. On a primary eve, 312 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: New York and Florida vote tomorrow, well ahead of the 313 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: Sunshine stated conversation with ad Goodman coming up on the 314 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: fastest hour in politics. This is Bloomberg. Rhonda Santis is 315 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: unopposed in tomorrow's Republican primary. It's primary day in Florida, 316 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: so he hit the road in advance of the voting. 317 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: Heading over the weekend is Friday to Pennsylvania to stump 318 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: for Doug Mastriano. Remember that's the Republican nominee there, the 319 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: election denier, who is in a pretty interesting race as 320 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: a matter of fact. And this follows De Santis visiting 321 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: Ohio on behalf of j D Vance, the De Santis 322 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 1: National Tour. As he speaks, yes, of course it's in 323 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: favor of the Canada, but he's very much speaking like 324 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: a national candidate. Listen to governor to Santis in Pennsylvania. 325 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: That shows you what they think of you. That is 326 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: insulting our intelligence that you're calling at the inflation Reduction Act. 327 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: What are they doing? Obviously they're not doing anything to 328 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: to stop inflation. They're spending a lot more money that 329 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: we don't have, taking aim at Democrats, of course, in 330 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: what was seen as a win for the Biden administration 331 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: Congressional Democrats, the i r A. The Inflation Reduction Act. 332 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: That's not really something that well, look, maybe it would be, 333 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: but not the headline of a local political rally. Right. 334 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: Adam Goodman is with us to talk about the de 335 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: Santists effect and the Desantist tour and where this is 336 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,959 Speaker 1: all going with us here on sound On Back with 337 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: us in fact, Republican strategist columnist Edward R. Murrow, Senior 338 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: Fellow at Tufts Universities Fletcher School, Adam, this is the 339 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: man who is widely seen as the alternative to Donald Trump. 340 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: The polling has borne this out. He's raising more money 341 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 1: than Trump, though. These numbers that I mentioned are pretty incredible. 342 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: A hundred and forty two million dollars from the start 343 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: of twenty one through August five of this year, Ken Griffin, 344 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: Paul Tutor Jones on there that tops the hundred and 345 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: thirty six million that Donald Trump collected. Is it time 346 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: to pass the baton. Well, I can tell you it 347 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: was a tough day on the markets, but it's not 348 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: been a tough day for the stock of the Santis 349 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: for the better part of the last two years. He's 350 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: got a he's got a message, Joe, and and the 351 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: messages the Florida's story. You know what, It's been successful 352 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: because hundreds of thousands of people have come to move 353 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: into Florida as permanent residents, you know, because they were 354 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: able to get through the pandemic with the economy down, 355 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 1: they're fairly strong. You had the sense of freedom that 356 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: comes from low taxes, uh and fewer roles, and that 357 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: it is playing well all not just in Florida, Joe, 358 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 1: but all over America. And think of it this way. 359 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: There's so much going on right now that we people 360 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: feel really kind of down about. We're looking for something 361 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: to feel good about. And I think this kind of 362 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: story kind of stands out for that reason. And he 363 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: is taking that far and wide. And I know said Pennsylvania, 364 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: in Ohio whatever, I thought, those are parts of Florida. 365 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: Uh he I think you find, Joe that people want 366 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: to hear this and that makes him a legitimate contender. Uh, 367 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: will passed obviously his re election in twenty two. You 368 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: can't talk about Rhonda Santis without talking about Donald Trump. Uh. 369 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: Listen to what Liz Cheney said about him over the weekend. 370 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: She was asked about him by John Carl on ABC 371 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: News about specifically the idea of a Rhonda Santis presidential campaign. Here, 372 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: she is de Santis is somebody who is right now 373 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: campaigning for election deniers. Uh, And I think that is 374 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: something that that I think people have got to have 375 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 1: real pause about. You know, either you fundamentally believe in 376 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: and will support our constitutional structure, you don't. If he's 377 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: going national Adam Goodman, does he need to start distancing 378 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: himself from the the election denial label or does he 379 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: lean into it? I mean he was, he was on 380 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: stage shaking hands with with Doug Mastriano just three days ago. Well, 381 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: I think you can you can always make the case 382 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 1: in politics that you're brought down and what they call 383 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: guilt by association, so piece of state with anyone who's 384 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: considered one that deniers, you're going to hear that kind 385 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: of refrain. Why not just clean the record though, and 386 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: not deal with any of that. Rhonda Santis could apparently 387 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: stand on his own without being involved. Uh. It's a 388 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: very good point, Joe, because what really got him going, 389 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: beyond the fact that Florida, by almost every measure, has 390 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: done very well over the last two and a half years, 391 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: we really got him going was giving a sense of 392 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: empowerment back to people. When he went after the situation 393 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: where they were talking about teaching sex aid to kids 394 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: in kindergarten. Will give you the shorthand on it. Uh, 395 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: that really gave parents a sense of empowerment when he said, 396 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: I stand with you. You saw a little bit of 397 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: that with young can actually in ya last year, and 398 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,719 Speaker 1: I think you're seeing it here. America is looking for 399 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: a message and a messenger that feels good. And I 400 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: can tell you as long as U Rhn de Santis 401 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 1: leans into using your words, leans into the message of 402 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: what's happened in Florida over the last two and a 403 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: half years under his tutelage, Uh, so much the better 404 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: for him. And in terms of the money. In terms 405 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 1: of the money, Joe, also, the money you talked about 406 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 1: up front is big dollar money. And of course, so 407 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: does he need those five dollar contributions to be a 408 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: real deal. Presidential. I think he does. But if he 409 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: were to be pursuing that now nationally small donors nationally, 410 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,680 Speaker 1: he would justly be accused of running for national of course, 411 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: reaffirming his own that would have been a bad mistake. 412 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: He has resisted it to this point. I think it's 413 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: served him very well. For better or worse, you see 414 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 1: it's worse. I want to ask you though about the 415 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: Democratic primary quickly. Here Charlie Christ's Nikki Freed. This is 416 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: said to be closer than than some polls are showing 417 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: you've got establishment kind of versus. I'm not sure what 418 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: we call Nikki Freed. What's gonna happen tomorrow? I think 419 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: Charlie Chris is gonna win. Probably decided. You had one 420 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: poll that came out showing Nikki ahead a couple of 421 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: days ago, but it was probably group that mis called 422 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: the presidential and sixteen and twenty also it's called the 423 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: Goodnatural in eighteen in Florida. Neither have the stuff to 424 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: beat run to Santis though, right, that's you know, the 425 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: frustrating thing. I know I speak for everyone who's been 426 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 1: in a campaign where you feel, even if you win 427 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: the first round, winning the second looks and feels herculean, 428 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: if not not impossible. That is what it is facing 429 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: the Democratic nominee unfortunately, whether it be Charlie Chris or 430 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: Nicky Freed, Adam Goodman. Great to have you back. Republican strategist, 431 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: columnists and Murrow fellow at Tufts University's Fletcher School. This 432 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: Jamie had more to say about that. By the way, 433 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: not just run to Santis, but other so called election 434 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: deniers and her plans for them will reassemble the panel next, 435 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg sound on on Bloomberg Radio. 436 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: So by this time tomorrow people will be lining up 437 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: to vote on their way home from work or well, 438 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: on the case of New York, on their way to Fork. 439 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us on the fastest hour in politics, 440 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington with our signature 441 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Chanzano and Rick Davis. Jennie, 442 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by Democrats. Love affair with Liz Cheney, someone 443 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: who represents what most liberals stand against. Just name the 444 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: issue with one exception, of course, that's election Donald Trump. 445 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: And it looks like Liz Cheney, who lost her primary 446 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: of course just last week, will be there this fall 447 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: for some Democrats. As she described on ABC this week 448 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: when asked about this new political organization that she's launching, 449 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 1: Listen to Liz Cheney, I'm going to be very focused 450 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: on working to ensure that we do everything we can 451 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: UM not to elect election deniers, and I'm going to 452 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 1: work against those people. I'm going to work to support 453 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: their opponents. I think it matters that much. Working to 454 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: support their opponents, Genie. That means she's going to be 455 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: on stage with Democrats. She could be you know, this 456 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: great task, as she calls it, is to ensure that 457 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: Trump Trump is UM and election deniers more broadly, don't 458 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: continue their stranglehold on the Republican Party. And so to 459 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: do that, she's willing, as she's shown, not only to 460 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: lose her own seat, but to work across the aisle 461 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: to work with Democrats and people who have a similar 462 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: distaste for you know, these election deniers. The challenge for 463 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: Liz Cheney, of course, is she not only lost in Wyoming, 464 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: she lost huge and Donald Trump has shown throughout this 465 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: primary season he does have a stranglehold on the Republican Party, 466 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 1: and this is a boon for Democrats in this election 467 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: cycle and what's otherwise a bad election year for them, 468 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: That in the road decision, But it is very, very 469 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: a problematic for Republicans, as we've heard from Mitch McConnell, 470 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: who want to win the general election and take back 471 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: the Senate in the House. So it's a complicated mess. 472 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: But I think Liz Cheney is willing to blow up 473 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: the Republican Party costs them wins to what she sees 474 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: as the longer term of saving the party. Well, to 475 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: what extent are you taking this seriously? Rick? Obviously Jennie 476 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: just mapped it out. This was not, you know, a 477 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: near miss for Liz Cheney, who was essentially evicted from 478 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: the Republican caucus in the House now lost her job 479 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: in Wyoming, where her family name has been pretty meaningful 480 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: in Republican politics. Why should we be paying attention, Well, 481 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: it's we should pay attention because one, we're in a 482 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: divided Senate, We're in a very close House of representatives, 483 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: and this election, more so than any is sort of 484 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: focused on building a democracy versus tearing it down. So 485 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: uh Arizona a microcosum right election deniers won the nomination 486 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: all endorsed by Donald Trump for governor, for Senate, and 487 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: for or Secretary of State. Liz Cheney wants to make 488 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: sure none of those Republicans serve in office, that they 489 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: don't get to win in the general election. And so 490 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: her campaign is really on democracy promotion, not on promoting 491 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 1: anyone partisan party. And and I think that that she 492 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: that is shared with a lot of people. I mean, 493 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: Adam Kinsinger, one of her partners on the on the committee, 494 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,719 Speaker 1: is also out there doing exactly the same thing. He's 495 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: formed a committee Country First, and it's going out there 496 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: and trying to help people who are trying to defeat 497 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: election to niners, even if you agree on nothing on 498 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: the policy side. Though Liz Cheney stands next to a 499 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: Democrat on stage, and that that does not come across 500 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: as disingenuous devoters. I don't think she's going to be 501 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: standing on podys. I think she's going to be talking 502 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: about Republicans who she knows best, right, and so she's 503 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: going to carry the negative message on why these people 504 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: and their efforts to try and tear down the institutions 505 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: of our democracy is bad for our country. She doesn't 506 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: necessarily have to say great thing is about the Democrats running. 507 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: She did say, though, she would work for those candidates 508 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: who are running against deniers, So I presume that would 509 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: have to be a Democrat at some point. Uh, Mitch McConnell. 510 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: To your point, Genie made made reference to the issue 511 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: here just last week. He said it again today in Kentucky, UH, 512 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: talking about candidate quality and essentially all but gave the 513 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: Senate to Democrats, or at least to keep the Senate. 514 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: Here's what he said. There's probably a greater likelihood in 515 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: the House than the Senate. Races are just different there statewide. Uh. 516 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: Candidate quality has a lot to do with the outcome. 517 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: Hashtag candidate quality. And we've talked about this before. Everyone 518 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: points to the same candidates, Genie, Right, it's Dr Roz, 519 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: it's herschel Walker, it's J. D. Vance. You could keep going. 520 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: Those seemed to be the big three. Candidate quality if 521 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: if we can use that term here with with a 522 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: straight face, appears to be the issue here in deciding 523 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: the balance of hour in the Senate. Herschel Walker is 524 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,479 Speaker 1: really though quite an example here, UH, as as he 525 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: vised for UH, this Senate seat in Georgia. Uh, he's 526 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: been in the midst of this argument over debates. Listen 527 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: to herschel Walker talking to Raphael Warnock, the current senator 528 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: from Georgia, and we're not gonna hide. I'm gonna have 529 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: like Senator one not And what I would say to 530 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: Senator one not is where you at, scaredy cat? Where 531 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: are you at, scaredy cat? Uh. It turns out that 532 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: the local I believe it's live eleven has been has 533 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: invited both herschel Walker and Raphael Warnock uh to a 534 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: a debate and and herschel Walker has not responded. Warnock 535 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: is on board. He was asked herschel Walker was asked 536 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: about this, what the problem is with this debate and 537 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: why he's not going to be taking part here. He is, Oh, 538 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna respond in a vein that it calls. 539 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: You know, that's not a debate, and you know that 540 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: when you got for that, that has contribute to his 541 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: campaign and his end his room to own a two 542 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: people gonna see it on Sunday night. I think NFL 543 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: football like, yeah, I don't give you an opportunity to 544 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: be statewide so everybody can see what it is see 545 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: the contrast between the two of us. I don't know 546 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: how you can't ask me anything better. So from what 547 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: I from what we understand here, there would not be 548 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: to be supporters of both allowed in the hall. And 549 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: it's not on a Sunday night's on a Thursday, as 550 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, when you know presumably they're not 551 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: going to be watching uh NFL games. I don't need 552 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: to keep going on too much further with this because 553 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: every day it seems to be Rick Davis something like 554 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: this with herschel Walker. Um. Candidate quality is that what 555 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: this election is going to go down to for Republicans? 556 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: You know, look, I mean herschel Walker has no previous 557 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: experience in any kind of public office. That he's a 558 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: first timer. Sure, he's a great name and a super 559 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: football player, but the jury is out on whether or 560 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: not he has the capacity to be a great politician 561 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: and maybe even elected official. If I were his campaign 562 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: manage or his consultant, I would not allow him to 563 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: debate anybody, not even kids. I mean, would you not 564 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: also be pointing to candidate quality on the Democratic side? 565 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: You know, look, I think that that if you're an incumbent, 566 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: candidate quality doesn't matter, right, I mean, you're only worried 567 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: about just mean nationwide. How come, Genie, Candidate quality isn't 568 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 1: isn't an issue for Democrats who are running for a 569 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: lot of these same seats. Well, because the Democrats have 570 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: managed to get candidates, um not you know, holy, but 571 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: many candidates who are actually making a go of it 572 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,080 Speaker 1: in some really tough races. So let's look at Ohio. 573 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: That should be a Republican seat. It's a Republican seat now. 574 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: Their candidates should win in an off year election or 575 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: a mid term election. And yet they've got Tim Ryan. 576 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: He's running a pretty strong campaign. Flip over to Pennsylvania. 577 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: Look at Fetterman. Sure, Oz is problematic, but Fetterman, he's 578 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: been out and he's back on the campaign trade now, 579 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: even from his hospital room, he is a pretty good candidate. 580 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: So they have done their part. And you know, Mitch 581 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,440 Speaker 1: McConnell i seldom say this, but he's a hundred percent 582 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: right on this. Candidate quality matters an awful lot, and 583 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 1: Republicans have a big math problem because they are not 584 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: only to forget trying to pick up one, they're trying 585 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: to hold what they have. He doesn't want to be 586 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: dealing with the likes of Ron Johnson, who is an 587 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: incumbent and is not a good candidate for Wisconsin right now. 588 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: So it's a problem for Republicans. Well, neither of you 589 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: have even mentioned Crew today yet I wasn't here with 590 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: you last week to talk about it. But I guess 591 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: when you start to back away from this Rick, there 592 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: there is clearly an evolving narrative that says, Okay, it 593 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 1: looks like Democrats just may well keep the Senate, they 594 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: could even add a seat. Uh. And and Republicans in 595 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: the House need to start dialing back expectations. Do you 596 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: agree with that? Uh? To some degree. I I do 597 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: think we're sort of shielding the real argument. And it's 598 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: not about candidate quality. Obviously that happens all the time. 599 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: But being the old man on the block, I remember 600 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: waking up the day after the election in night with 601 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: Reagan's sweeping victory and electing a Republican Senate with people 602 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: who are completely unqualified to be United States senators. Chick 603 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,720 Speaker 1: Hacked was one of the names that come to mind. 604 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: Voted the dumbest senator in the Senate, and and and 605 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: they served six years one term, and then almost all 606 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: of them lost reelection and and so that was they 607 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 1: got elected, not because they were great candidates or they 608 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: were good campaigner, but there was a red sweep that year. 609 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: This would have been a red sweep year. But I 610 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: think the underpinning of this has been lost. That Biden 611 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,399 Speaker 1: administration has gained a lot of momentum. If they can 612 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 1: hold it till November, they're gonna ameliorate the sweep and 613 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, bad candidates matter. And and in 614 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,959 Speaker 1: the case of Dr Oz and his crew to days, 615 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: if he doesn't sharpen his his efforts, he's not going 616 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: to have the win at his back like he thought 617 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: he was going to have. Uh and uh and And 618 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: believe me, red tide makes everybody look like a good 619 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: candidate and a great elected official and and without it, 620 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: they just look like bad politicians. Rising tide lifts all boats. 621 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: Genie crudete a side. Let's say the Senate stays Democratic, 622 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: House goes Republican. Can Joe Biden get anything done? Very 623 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: very difficult. You know, I'm never optimistic about this. And 624 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: it's even tougher. And yeah, it's gonna be even tougher though, 625 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: because now you have divided government. You couple that with 626 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: the number of investigations that we will see from the 627 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: Republican side in the House. You know, Kevin McCarthy if 628 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,399 Speaker 1: he is a speaker, and I know your guest said 629 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,240 Speaker 1: he won't be, but if he was, he'll be rinning 630 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: some of those. So it'll be tough for Biden. He's 631 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: done a lot this year, but next year, if it flips, 632 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: will be tough. Yeah, we won't count on too many 633 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: Democrats to understand the future for Kevin McCarthy. Great to 634 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 1: talk with both Rick and Genne. Great to see you 635 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: again as well. Thanks for joining us on the fastest 636 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 1: hour in politics. If you showed up late, subscribe to 637 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,280 Speaker 1: the podcast and I'll meet you on primary day tomorrow 638 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 1: on sound on This is Bloomberg.