WEBVTT - A 'Tangible Tool' for Fighting Unequal Pay in the City 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:03.480 So we've been pretty distracted in recent weeks with the 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:06.800 political turmoil and upheavals in the markets, and we've been 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:09.760 on picking them week by week with lots of bonus 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.720 episodes and bringing all the experts. But you know, meanwhile, 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:15.200 the real world has been rumbling on. And this is 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.080 a story we've been meaning to bring you for some time. 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.520 It's about equality and equal pay here in the City 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.120 of London. It's an issue that affects so many people 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:28.200 working around here and all around the world and really 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:30.720 does affect their lives. And there's been a case going 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:33.040 on now for some time involving one of the big 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:36.440 global banks, BNP Paribar, and a light has been shown 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.159 on some the practices at the bank, which has lessons 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:42.520 we think to tell all of us about the future 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:53.440 for equality here in the City. I'm Franz and Lacqua 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:55.840 and I'm David Merritt, and this is In the City, 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:58.760 Bloomberg's podcast, connecting you to the stories and the voices 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:00.680 at the heart of the City of London. So this 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.800 week we are taking a deep look at the paid 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:08.080 discrepancy between men and women working in finance. And there 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:10.440 was a verdict in a London court case that could 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.920 shine even more light on what is actually still a 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.200 widening gap. Yeah, for the record, he'll have no fury 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:20.039 as a woman paid less. Jonathan Browning, legal reporter here 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:23.000 in London, joins us. So, Jonathan, you're going to help 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:26.480 us unpack this very specific case of a broker at 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:29.520 BNP pair bar in London and the equal payard it 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:31.679 that was ordered as part of the verdict in her 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.880 equal pay suit. Before we get the details, let's just 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:37.640 paint the picture of where we are now when it 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:40.440 comes to equal pay in the city. Because the very 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:45.520 idea of women being paid less than their male colleagues 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.920 should have gone out years ago. But we know that 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:52.360 that's not the case. Um, So the tell us about 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.200 the reality of the situation now and and really that 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.880 this verdict is not so surprising. It's not in one sense. 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:00.840 I mean, the UK became the biggest country to zoom 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.680 in on this on this explosive topic of the pay 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.720 gap between men and women when it asked for mandatory 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:11.200 reporting on wage differences in But the point is that 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:17.040 that was a fairly blunt instrument. Um. It shows that 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.560 men are paid a median of nine more than women. 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.160 That's what men and women are on average. It's not 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:28.400 a comparison of like for light roles. It highlights the 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:32.880 extent to which women have been underrepresented. It's all we 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:37.600 have and until now is it worse in the finance industry. 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:43.400 It is. Women in in the finance industry make significantly 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:46.880 mess less than men. The pay gap is especially wide 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:50.040 in investment banking, where some of the highest paid employees 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:52.880 work and they tend to be men. But just just 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.200 to clarify on the data, you say, it's about the 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:59.040 medium pay, isn't it. So it's not showing you say 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.440 what someone doing the same job is showing. What is 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.160 showing a little bit as well, is that there are 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:06.160 fewer women in senior positions, which are the higher paid 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.400 jobs as well. Right, that's part of the problem, very 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.639 much so, and most employees are very keen to say 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.520 this doesn't mean equal pay. It's not a comparison of 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:18.520 like for like. This is about the averages that men 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:22.520 and women and and has been as I say, like 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:27.240 all that any employee has to rely on, because because 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.920 that's all we've had so far. But this case, what 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:31.600 what was different about this case? What sort of like 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:35.120 did it shine on the issue here at So the 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.000 big thing is the fact that the verdict at the 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.520 end and the the remedy that was ordered will go 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:45.160 into some serious detail about equal pay. But this is 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:50.520 a case about Stacy Mackin. Hello and Stacy Machin, who 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.160 was a prime brokerage manager at b MP Parry Back. 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:57.920 I spoke with Stacy Mackin and her barrister, Sailer Ali 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.480 in the Bloomberg studio about a month to go to 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.240 talk through these issues. She was a sixteen year veteran 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.760 over the bank and New Zealander who relocated to London. 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:11.760 She called this like her dream job, but she started 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:17.279 to fear perhaps that she was being paid less than 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.800 her colleagues for the same amount of work. BNP paraba, 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:25.359 We're paying a mail in the same role more in 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:28.840 salary and seven times the bonus for no good reason. 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.400 All I can say is that I felt very, very 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:35.720 lit down by the bank. I had raised a genuine 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:40.360 complaint and HI should have investigated it properly, but instead 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:44.520 they made a conscious decision to side with male discriminators 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.719 and cover up the discrimination. And then, I mean to 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.000 be clear, this is this is a prime brokerage job 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:51.880 at a big investment back. So this is a high 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.839 paid job, right, This is we're talking serious money here, 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.440 we are. I think her pay was slightly north of 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.919 already a hundred thousand, but that's not in this sense 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:06.600 the point, um. It's it's the fact that a colleague, 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:10.880 an exact comparator, was being paid more. So, this is 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.039 not only about pay discrimination, right, it's equal pay violation 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.479 discrimination laddish culture that came out in the trial, as 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:21.640 I imagine, people submitted evidence, and it's also females in 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.800 HR running a bit of a sham grievance, it is, 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:29.240 And initially a lot of the laddish culture got the headlines. 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:33.559 There were some pretty appalling episodes where at one point 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.279 in time she came Stacy Mack and came to work 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.599 the next morning to find a witch's hat on her 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.400 desk and that had been tribunal found left there by 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:47.400 a group of male colleagues who had been out drinking. 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:52.120 When she made comments and complaints, there was a sort 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.840 of familiar refrain of not now Stacy, not now Stacy, 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.359 and it became kind of a thing. So that was 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:00.360 what got the headlines. Perhaps initially but the actual meet 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:05.320 of the case, the concern was around equal pay. I 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.960 think if you are working in an environment where women 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:12.080 are but littled, then that's a pretty good indication that 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:16.800 there there is an underlying problem in giner pay. And 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.200 the FCO themselves have made a great play about the 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:23.720 fact that in a culture where sexist behavior is tolerated 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:27.360 is not dealt with in any way, then other problems 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:32.480 fester and misconduct is much more likely to happen. So 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.720 what happens now? There was what two million pounds being 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.039 awarded her in January, but actually the judge went a 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:42.200 step further, Yeah, she did. The award of the money 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:46.159 is a significant, significant sum. We think it's probably in 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:51.919 the top ten of all employment tribunal awards. When a 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:56.159 discrimination claim is made there is there is in theory 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:01.320 no upper limit, but this award stands out for the 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:03.760 size of it as much as anything else. But even 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:10.840 more important is this essentially an order, a requirement from 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:15.600 the tribunal for an equal pay Ordit that had never 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.880 happened before. I requested the equal pay order as part 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.560 of my remedy because I became aware that there was 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.360 a wider problem. But Basically, I just wanted to make 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:26.480 sure that no other woman at BNP would have to 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.240 go through what I went through. I mean, it's been 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:33.800 fifty odd years since the Equal Pay it and yet 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:38.120 women still have not reached pay parity, and in my opinion, 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.800 the UK regulations don't go far enough. I think every 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.240 large employer who has a material pay get should have 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.320 to publish the underlying data. Otherwise we're just not going 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.360 to make any progress. As we were saying, that's not 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.960 just going to show you what the median amounts are. 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.160 That's going to look like for like people in jobs 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:59.120 throughout the firm, where the male men and women are 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.880 being paied equally top to bottom, the whole way through 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:06.920 the London branch. It's an absolutely enormous undertaking and something 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.280 you know that employers might have done and kept private. 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.559 This time around, we understand that's to be made public 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:15.800 and that's the whole point, right because that's when it 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:19.000 will have an impact because people can look across and 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.120 see whether or not and that's just BMP Power bar 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:23.760 are going to have to do that. Any other bank's 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:26.760 going to follow suit At the moment. This is just 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.680 for b MP Barry Bar and they have just completed 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:34.600 the audit. They've sent it to the tribunal. But we've 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:38.600 started to see other claimants in employment tribunal cases in 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:43.319 the financial services industry asking for that too. It becomes 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:50.400 a remedy beyond the kind of personal award of of 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.959 of of damages, something bigger than that. And that's something 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:58.160 now that um other claimants are starting to ask of 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:03.800 the tribunal ty. So been BNPS response. So they never 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:07.640 appealed any of the decisions, both at the what's called 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:11.240 the liability hearing where they discovered the issues, and then 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:16.880 and then in the remedy hearing. Either they accept in 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.600 a sense that they doesn't mean to say they didn't 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.959 fight it tooth and nail. They thought it tooth and nail. 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.720 But at the end they've been very clear and they 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.280 said that we fell short in our duty, Tom miss Mackin. 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.240 They're considering the tribunals judgment to see what they can learn, 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:39.280 and they have conducted this pay audit. So BNP Power 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.600 Bar were showcasing themselves throughout this whole process as some 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:46.400 sort of champions of equality, even literally as the time 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:50.480 the discrimination hearing was happening, Gen Laurent won a favor 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:54.480 of CEO was publicly championing this Heath for She campaign 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:59.480 that the bank was leading the Newermatic champion and the 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.559 c for a large bank as a citizen and a 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:07.640 further and personally committed to drive forward the employment of 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:12.320 women made he was named a partner in the campaign 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:16.040 pledge to take affirmative action to combat discrimination, but the 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.480 result was literally they were also fighting tooth and nail 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:23.880 in a London employment tribunal. Surely Stacy macam must feel 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.920 pretty frustrated by that. I think, yeah, I think she does. 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.599 I think it's interesting that they said that they have 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:36.680 worked ambitiously on ginger equality for twenty years and there's 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:41.199 a huge difference between ambition and action, and their defense 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:45.360 was was what were they trying to discredit? Was that? 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.840 What was their defense? Yeah? I like, I mean, initially 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:51.560 they didn't even admit that there was this discrepancy. It 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:55.080 was only through the litigation process that mac and discovered 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.240 that a male colleague in an equivalent role was being 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.680 being paid twenty five percent more than she was, and 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.800 that discrepancy only got wider as this male colleague received 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:09.360 bonuses and a special allowance. They said it wasn't comparable, 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:11.959 but the fundamental point was that his bonus was more 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:15.959 than five times Stacy mackins she I think also feels 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.560 that it was noteworthy that none of the individuals at 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:23.320 BMP Parry Bar were in any way disciplined, and that's 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:26.880 that's still the case. None of the discriminators have been disciplined, 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.640 despite this being defined as gross misconduct by the Compliance Department, 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:36.280 and despite BMP publicly stating on the website that they're 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:40.800 burning discrimination of all types. Now, what I can tell 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:45.720 you from the remedy hearing, we discovered that all discriminators 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:52.880 received their bonuses after the judgment against them. I just wonder, Jonathan, 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:54.720 and none of this is really surprising, right, that these 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.160 things happen. It's shocking, but not surprising. We all hear 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:00.920 stories about either sexual harassment or women being treated differently 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:05.000 at banks. Is it overall changing or is it changing 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.520 at such a glacial pace that actually doesn't make much difference. 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:12.400 I mean, something like this has a real impact because 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:18.720 it is a discernible results from a individual's case. This 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:20.439 is a tool, this is a piece of this is 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:22.960 a document. We don't yet know how it's going to 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.880 be made available at the moment. The tribunal has that 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.120 has that the audit and it is considering it. But 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.080 we've never been in this situation before, so we don't 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:35.160 quite know how it's going to be released. This is 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.920 this is some something kind of tangible and that's I 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.120 think what makes it stand out. And you know, to 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:43.280 this point, I mean, it isn't that surprising, is that 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.880 there must be people classibly, people listening to this podcast 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.160 who have experienced that laddish behavior in the workplace, who 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.800 might suspect that their colleagues are getting paid more than 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:54.520 them for the same job. Are we going to see 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.319 many more cases now brought forward or coming to light? Well, 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.360 it's true. I asked the same question of Saila Alien, 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.680 Stacy ack Ands, Barrisster. How widespread is this problem of 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.440 equal pay, especially in the city. That's more widespread than 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:11.920 people would think. Nobody walks into a job thinking I'm 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:16.319 being discriminated against. Well, hopefully nobody walks in with that view, 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.960 but the fact is it happens. I talked to a 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.080 number of women who don't know what the pay gap is, 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:27.640 and it's it's difficult to tell them what to do. 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.199 They're acting on a suspicion that someone is treated differently, 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:34.800 and then they have to bring a claim based on that. 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.160 And it's only really then at the disclosure stage of 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.360 the claim when the employer is forced because they have 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:45.200 a duty from the tribunal to disclose everything that's either 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:50.920 helpful or adverse to the case for them, and most 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:52.920 of the time they will be right. But how many 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:56.120 people would really even get to that stage? As I said, 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.880 I think we'll certainly start seeing these equal pay audits 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.480 being requested of tribunals. It's a power I think that 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.640 no one really realized was available to them. But whether 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.120 or not that has a bigger impact, I mean, I 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.440 think it puts the pressure on BNP Pariba first, and 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.280 then you can be sure that every single HR and 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.920 employment relations team is now aware that that is a 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.760 remedy that could be requested of any other bank. And 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.040 that's I want to get ahead of that now, per 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.880 fix that get that shopping order right to reveal the numbers. 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:31.440 Because the point about this particular request was the tribunal 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.880 didn't believe that b MP PARRYBA had looked at this 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:41.280 issue in enough detail, it said, and BP said it had, 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:43.000 and then it was asked the question of whether or 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:47.360 not it considered bonuses in that audit, and they said no. 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.360 And so then the tribunal said, well, we simply think 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:52.720 there are quite there are quite likely to be other 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.560 people in that situation, and therefore we need you to 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.480 conduct this equal pay audit from top to bottom to 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.800 include bonuses. You spoke to her, So did she feel 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.600 vindicated or is it still very difficult for a woman 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:07.400 to stand up and say, well, actually I'm going to 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:10.320 go to a tribunal because then you potentially fear that 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.800 you could be unemployable afterwards. Yeah, this was a grueling, 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:20.160 grueling process. The first hearings were back in Stacy Mackin 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:24.800 basically did all the work as far as the litigation herself. 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.160 She had a barrister to advocate for her at the 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:32.000 actual trial like the actual tribunal hearing, but she did 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.440 all the background. She didn't have flisters to do the 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.720 kind of the grunt work she did that all. It's 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.840 very difficult for women to finance cases like this, especially 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.920 when you're paid less in salary and seven times less 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:47.840 in bonus. And I'll say, the only way I survived. 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.560 It was by being a litigant in person for the 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.600 majority of the time. And what that means is I 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:57.000 was managing the case myself behind the scenes, and Shayla 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.200 was representing me at the hearings. But if I had 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.120 to hire a solicitor to do that type of work 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.800 and to do all the communications with the bank, then 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:07.640 it would have cost me a fortune and I wouldn't 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:11.480 have been able to take this forward. I think she 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:13.840 is she was just she would never have said that 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.560 she was someone who wanted to be initially that advocate 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:22.800 for equal pay. I think she's somewhat unwilling to be 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.480 in that position, but has found herself in that position 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.880 as someone who is a bit of a standard bearer 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.840 and is now kind of someone who perhaps can advocate. 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:38.560 It's been quite a battle, um, a David and Goliath battle, 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.280 if you will, UM. But here I am, five years later, 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.600 have come out of it successful, and you know, I'm 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.960 proud that I can help other women and champion them. 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.760 And to the women at BMP, I guess one thing 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.240 I would say is remember that you're in a power position. 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.680 Now We've got this equel pay audit for you. You're 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.120 going to have transparency that you never had before. You 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:05.040 know that the regulators have already been into BMP on 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.440 the back of my judgment and um the if c 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.240 A are now requiring BMP to log all complaints. So 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.640 I hope it gives them the confidence to go out 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:22.480 and get the equal pay that they're entitled to. Jonathan, 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:28.600 thank you, thank you, thanks for listening to this week's 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.840 in the City. We'll be back next week, but in 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.240 the meantime, if you like our show, please head on 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.440 over to Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:41.760 and rate, review and subscribe. This episode was hosted by 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:45.600 me Francine Lakua with Dave Merritt. It was produced by Summersaidi, 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:49.200 with editing and sound design by Black Maple's. Special thanks 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:55.160 to Jonathan Browning, Stacy Maggen, and Sheila Ally.