Speaker 1: On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef
Speaker 1: invest start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello, and
Speaker 1: welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante
Speaker 1: and my name is Jamie Loftus, and this is part
Speaker 1: two of our Lord of the Rings Trilogy episode. Hey, Caitlin,
Speaker 1: did you know that movie trilogy is really fucking long?
Speaker 1: I did know that that past the Bechdel Test. If
Speaker 1: you don't know what that is, get with the program.
Speaker 1: Just kidding, But if you haven't listened to episode one
Speaker 1: of the Lord of the Rings podcast, we recommend you know,
Speaker 1: maybe go back to part one, listen to it through
Speaker 1: and and this is part two. I mean, if you
Speaker 1: just want to listen to this one, that would sort
Speaker 1: of be like starting in the middle of Lord of
Speaker 1: the Rings two Towers and then only watching that and which, honestly,
Speaker 1: not to betray my opinion of this trilogy, would be
Speaker 1: totally fine. Nothing happens the entire movie, that doesn't even matter. Disagree,
Speaker 1: All kinds of things happen, clearly you don't remember Golem
Speaker 1: trying to anyway. So this is part two. If you
Speaker 1: haven't listened to part one, we recommend going and doing
Speaker 1: that first. But otherwise do you you do, you your body,
Speaker 1: your choice. Here's part two. So that brings us to
Speaker 1: a Owen. She is introduced for the first time in
Speaker 1: the second movie. She is the niece of King Theodin
Speaker 1: of Rohan. Why did their names rhyme? Like we said,
Speaker 1: her whole thing is that she wants to fight. All
Speaker 1: the men get to fight. Women are you know, perceived
Speaker 1: as being helpless in this universe and that they have
Speaker 1: to be protected. But she is a skilled sword fighter
Speaker 1: and she wants to do her part in this fight,
Speaker 1: in this war, this impending war. Right, But then she
Speaker 1: meets Ericorn and she's like, who's that? And now all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, there's a love triangle between Ergorn, Arwyn
Speaker 1: and Awen that has almost no tension in it. There.
Speaker 1: This is like the most boring love triangle in the
Speaker 1: entire world. It is because it's so clear that Airgorn
Speaker 1: is not interested. Right from moment one and again, in
Speaker 1: the same gender neutral way that this whole story plays out,
Speaker 1: we see her hurt being rejected by Vigo Mortensen, as
Speaker 1: everyone at the table knows we've all been rejected. It
Speaker 1: doesn't feel great and feel great, but he's not mean
Speaker 1: to her. It's not and and there's never a particular
Speaker 1: sexual tension between them in the first place, so it's
Speaker 1: almost just like it's a crush that is unrequited, and
Speaker 1: so that is not particularly compelling to watch, right, But
Speaker 1: like this introduction of like her really kind of falling
Speaker 1: in love with him or maybe just having like a
Speaker 1: crush does not need to be there. She serves another
Speaker 1: function in the story. So for her to also be
Speaker 1: in love with them, man, I think like really sells
Speaker 1: out her character. And and we also get one of
Speaker 1: my favorite sellouts of the female character who is allowed
Speaker 1: to do anything. Because I think Aoen by far is
Speaker 1: the most active for female character and she still basically
Speaker 1: has no my fact on the plot, but you know,
Speaker 1: she's the most active by far. And there's that scene
Speaker 1: where she has a sword and it's the first time
Speaker 1: we're seeing her wheeled a sword and airgorn like notices
Speaker 1: and it's like, hey, you can do what the boys do,
Speaker 1: and she's like, I know, pretty cool, right, But I'll
Speaker 1: be humble and shy about it. And then because he's
Speaker 1: the I think that we're to believe because he's the
Speaker 1: first man who has acknowledged she's doing it at all
Speaker 1: and doesn't really say, like, you're really good at that,
Speaker 1: and I respect you, but he doesn't not say that,
Speaker 1: And I think that that is like for us, supposed
Speaker 1: to be the entry point of like she likes him
Speaker 1: because he's the only man she's ever met who hasn't
Speaker 1: nagged her for her interests. I think that that's like
Speaker 1: the root of her interest in him. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: he didn't say I sucked like every man in my
Speaker 1: life does, so I guess I love him. It's true.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, are you not yelling at me? Cool?
Speaker 1: We're married? Um. And then there's more to talk about
Speaker 1: with her character, but where her story ends. In the
Speaker 1: one of eight hundred conclusions of this trilogy, she gets
Speaker 1: paired up with Ferremir because Ericorn rejects her, so she
Speaker 1: has to end up with some man. So they placed
Speaker 1: her next to Faremere. They might they give each other
Speaker 1: a little like CD. I. I think there's a moment
Speaker 1: in I hate that, like the last minute, like don't worry.
Speaker 1: She's still gonna a guy. He's like, oh no, we
Speaker 1: weren't freaking out about it. Actually we were fined. So
Speaker 1: they get paired up and head her own normativity is
Speaker 1: alive and well, so I kind of want to just
Speaker 1: kinda go through to the movies and point out a
Speaker 1: few different things we see in terms of, you know,
Speaker 1: the gender dynamics. So in the Fellowship of the Ring
Speaker 1: again we opened with a woman's voice. We've got gladiol
Speaker 1: being sort of place like omniscient narrator. Like the narration
Speaker 1: is very inconsistent in the movie. That definitely, and then
Speaker 1: when she does appear on screen again throughout the movies,
Speaker 1: it's it's seldom happens, and then it's it's again to
Speaker 1: deliver exposition narrator. I r L. Yeah. So I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess you could argue that it's cool that like
Speaker 1: a woman is given like an omniscient point of view
Speaker 1: sort of, but no, yeah, there there is a retelling
Speaker 1: of this movie that puts her as the omniscient being,
Speaker 1: because that's really what was implied. I think to a degree,
Speaker 1: like this is giving it too much credit. But by
Speaker 1: making her the narrator, it's as if she's like speaking
Speaker 1: like this is how it all happened. So maybe in
Speaker 1: the future of Earth, she became the king of the world.
Speaker 1: She became the storyteller. She's like, hey, everybody, you want
Speaker 1: to hear a story about five guys I met. She
Speaker 1: becomes the new Gandalf, and that's kind of what he does, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it'll take ten hours of your time. Learn's like, no,
Speaker 1: I don't, I'm good ace. Um. There is a moment
Speaker 1: very early on in the first movie where like Gandalf
Speaker 1: is like riding through the shire and um, there's like
Speaker 1: all these children who are like cand off play some
Speaker 1: fireworks and he's like okay, and then there's like a
Speaker 1: hobbit couple and the man is like, t he I
Speaker 1: like fireworks too, And then his wife shows up and
Speaker 1: she's scowling because women be shrews, as we know, and
Speaker 1: then he has to pretend like he's not having fun
Speaker 1: and not enjoying the fireworks. And it's supposed to be
Speaker 1: like this ha ha comical moment, but the first depiction
Speaker 1: of a woman you see on screen is a shrewish
Speaker 1: hobbit lady. So I feel like that really sets the
Speaker 1: tone for the whole and aren't wait a minute, And
Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense because Hobbits are supposed to
Speaker 1: be so joyful, love fun. Exactly what was this woman
Speaker 1: crashed in the party for. Well, she's a woman, so
Speaker 1: she can't have fun. She can't have fun. Women are
Speaker 1: not having fun in this in this series, so you're
Speaker 1: not giggling. Then, well, I guess they go to Bilbo's party. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's a few minutes of screen time and then
Speaker 1: we hardly see those characters again. Sam's wife has fun,
Speaker 1: she had a lot of kids. Yeah, once she starts
Speaker 1: t shirt gunning out Sam's kid. Yeah, that's actually in
Speaker 1: the extended version. I saw you see Sam's wife give birth,
Speaker 1: and it's it's like a machine gun of baby. Progressive
Speaker 1: moment in cinema. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because they
Speaker 1: show it from below. Yeah, basically a biology Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: and that's in the three D version. That is in
Speaker 1: the three D it's we're more like Hobbits than you
Speaker 1: would think when you see it up close. It's okay.
Speaker 1: When we first meet our went on screen again, it's
Speaker 1: not until over an hour into the movie it's established
Speaker 1: that she and Agorn know each other, but it's not
Speaker 1: We're not quite sure how or what in what context.
Speaker 1: Her introduction is a little cool because we do meet
Speaker 1: her by her holding a sword up to Aragorn's neck
Speaker 1: very hot. Yes, so she is threatening his life. But
Speaker 1: then a few scenes later you're like, oh, they're basically
Speaker 1: engaged to be married. So so it was just like
Speaker 1: it was like a little thing they were doing. I mean,
Speaker 1: I wasn't into Vigo watching that movie, but I think
Speaker 1: my little whatever I was nine years old self, was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, this is kind of what's happening. And
Speaker 1: then but then think about this later, You're like, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be a few years before I can unpack this fully.
Speaker 1: So then a few moments later in the movie, she's
Speaker 1: like riding up on a horse. There's like angelic music.
Speaker 1: Her dress is white, even though when it cuts to
Speaker 1: a moment later in the Dame exact scene, she's wearing
Speaker 1: a different dress. But she's like she comes in as
Speaker 1: this like angel savior to like save Photo's life. She's
Speaker 1: literally glowing. She and Galadriel are never not glowing, although
Speaker 1: Gandalf glows too. Sometimes Gandolf does glow, he has but
Speaker 1: but he does, but never when he's gand off the
Speaker 1: way for that one scene, but most of the time
Speaker 1: we see him on screen, he's he's dull, I mean,
Speaker 1: and to be fair, all men are dull and all
Speaker 1: women are radiants and perfect. True, however, and also the
Speaker 1: we we don't see women who are not fabulously wealthy
Speaker 1: and conventionally attractive glow. We do not see poor people
Speaker 1: when when there are women on screen who are meant
Speaker 1: to be poor, they do not glow. Habit, women do
Speaker 1: not glow. Yeah, like if you are hot, hot royalty,
Speaker 1: you glow. And even then it's I feel like the
Speaker 1: only reason that a Owen is not depicted in this
Speaker 1: way as because with Arwin and Galadriel, they're supposed to
Speaker 1: be these like virginal women and objects of desire, where
Speaker 1: we're I sort of interpreted. We're intended to see Aoen
Speaker 1: a Owen Ewen McGregor. We're supposed to see a o
Speaker 1: En as more of a girl. I don't think we're
Speaker 1: encouraged to view her as like a sexual being in
Speaker 1: the same way we're encouraged to see the other two.
Speaker 1: But make no mistakes, she's still part of a royal family.
Speaker 1: Because her uncle is the king, so she's still she's royalty,
Speaker 1: and she's still conventionally, by Western beauty standards attractive. We
Speaker 1: only get beautiful women. And the range in male characters.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know that's a complaint on all movies,
Speaker 1: but the range in male characters. Man, you have a
Speaker 1: whole species of thing that is ugly. Yet I mean
Speaker 1: there's there. There is every well, I mean you can't
Speaker 1: extend it to color. There are white men of every
Speaker 1: shape and size in this film franchise. There's every kind
Speaker 1: of white man you get ever in counter in your
Speaker 1: entire life. You got Legless, you got the hacker, you
Speaker 1: got you got you fro, you got fig wit, you
Speaker 1: got fig With the Brett mackenzie character, there's short hair,
Speaker 1: there's also long hair's hairy feet, there's smooth feet, old
Speaker 1: not old. Wizards sometimes not wizards. The next thing that
Speaker 1: I think is worth noting that happens in the first
Speaker 1: movie is that we learn about the Urquai and how
Speaker 1: they exist, which is that Saramon, the bad Wizard, not
Speaker 1: to be confused with Sorrow on the Eye, is breeding
Speaker 1: orcs and goblin men to make this like super race
Speaker 1: of crazy warriors like eight fighters, all this stuff. They
Speaker 1: take women out of the equation. There does not need
Speaker 1: to be wounds. They are born as adults. They hatch,
Speaker 1: they hatch out of this pile of mud poop, mud, placenta,
Speaker 1: placent I wouldn't give it placenta. There's no placenta there, right,
Speaker 1: it's just like a pile of mud. That love that
Speaker 1: band mud lists are known. There's some like saran wrap
Speaker 1: covered in muddy poop, and that they break out of
Speaker 1: that and suddenly they're born, so that like, sure, sure,
Speaker 1: that's how you breed urakai fun way to cut women
Speaker 1: out of the narrative. Maybe, I mean this is also
Speaker 1: anti feminist, but maybe the implication is that because they're
Speaker 1: making the worst kind of obedient like creature, they can't
Speaker 1: have women that would be too good. But you know
Speaker 1: that puts that's not Yeah, I'm reaching. Why am I
Speaker 1: trying to defend? Why am I trying to defend the
Speaker 1: ranks because it doesn't deserve but there but this is
Speaker 1: the kind of I think this is definitely the kind
Speaker 1: of like franchise that you try to find a way
Speaker 1: to want to defend because it isn't aggressive towards women,
Speaker 1: it just leaves them out, and so it's harder. I
Speaker 1: feel like it's a little harder to reconcile. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not offensive, it's not grotesquely offensive. It's just so so
Speaker 1: the Silent Killer. Yeah. Um. And then there's there's a
Speaker 1: fun moment in a Rivendell, one of the Elf cities,
Speaker 1: where Gandef is like, hey around, Actually it's like men
Speaker 1: folk who we should like be trusting and like putting
Speaker 1: our faith in men to rule the fate of you know,
Speaker 1: Middle Earth. Did he mean gender men or human name,
Speaker 1: like the race of men as opposed to the race
Speaker 1: of elves or so that's what he means. But then
Speaker 1: l Ron responds men men are weak. So I think
Speaker 1: l Rond is a feminist icon. This is just feminist
Speaker 1: icon l Rond, but which sounds a little too much
Speaker 1: like l Ron Hubbard. I keep wanting to say l
Speaker 1: Ron Hubbard n one name. Yeah. So that's for me
Speaker 1: that those were like the notable things in terms of
Speaker 1: gender in the first movie where we're introduced to Arwin
Speaker 1: and glad Reel there for the most part, sideline, they
Speaker 1: have so little screen time that you forget that they
Speaker 1: exist they're both like these like fair maiden, virginal, angelic,
Speaker 1: willowy creatures. Yes, you're like, oh, I wonder if this
Speaker 1: movie cares about women or not, and then you remember
Speaker 1: not even a little bit. Um. So then we get
Speaker 1: into the Two Towers, and this is when we meet
Speaker 1: a win and that's when it's established that she's both
Speaker 1: a good fighter, but also she is horny for Aragorn
Speaker 1: for I mean reasons that we've argued could makes sense,
Speaker 1: but there's really no reason for her narratively to be
Speaker 1: interested in Airgorn. Like that that choice was made, you know,
Speaker 1: I guess to just like, oh, well, there's a woman
Speaker 1: in a story, and there's head normativity all around us,
Speaker 1: so let's make sure that she's in love with air
Speaker 1: Gorn so that we can have a love triangle. I
Speaker 1: don't know if that happens in the books or not.
Speaker 1: If you're if you're a fan of the books or
Speaker 1: you've read the books, um tweet at us and let
Speaker 1: us know if this love triangle was set up in
Speaker 1: the books or if this is just a change made
Speaker 1: in the film adaptation. I'd be interested to know that
Speaker 1: because I'm sort of skeptical. I feel like it was
Speaker 1: something that was added into the movies just to just
Speaker 1: to make it so yeah. Yeah, So we learned that
Speaker 1: she wants to fight and that, you know, that's her
Speaker 1: whole thing, which I think is cool. I agree that
Speaker 1: she is the most active character. She has the most
Speaker 1: agency of any of the other female characters, which is
Speaker 1: not hard because there's only two other ones and they're
Speaker 1: basically pointless to the story. We do meet her uncle, Theaden,
Speaker 1: who is E. J. Smith from Titanic. Oh, I forgot
Speaker 1: about that major twist. The best tressed load of the
Speaker 1: rings is that they captain from Titanic. Where's a wig
Speaker 1: and it um. Then there's a scene where Gimley the
Speaker 1: Dwarf is talking to a Owen and he's like, it's true,
Speaker 1: you don't see many dwarf women. In fact, they are
Speaker 1: so like in voice and appearance they are often mistaken
Speaker 1: for dwarfmen, which hack that I mean the whole the
Speaker 1: whole way that dwarves are portrayed at moments in this franchise.
Speaker 1: I think that there are moments where dwarves are portrayed
Speaker 1: as better but ultimately kind of offensive to the little
Speaker 1: person community. I'd be interested in, like reading thoughts that
Speaker 1: either the actors or just the reaction to that community,
Speaker 1: to Dwarves as a whole, because I know that Dwarves
Speaker 1: taken even larger role in the Hobbit franchise. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: I feel like that's like, I mean to for sure
Speaker 1: the shad they went to battle. Yeah, I think I
Speaker 1: mistakenly referred to them as Hobbits earlier when I was
Speaker 1: talking about Hobbits. But there to confuse, what are so
Speaker 1: what are dwarfs known for? What are there like trade
Speaker 1: in this world? They're basically capitalists because they hang out
Speaker 1: in their minds mining their precious jewels and gold and
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. They don't want to be troubled
Speaker 1: with the outside world. They're really just content to be
Speaker 1: confined to their caves and there, you know, mountains where
Speaker 1: all their treasures are. So that's the rules that are.
Speaker 1: That's like, I think that's like literally what l Rond says,
Speaker 1: He's like, they cared nothing for the troubles of men.
Speaker 1: Do they die when they go to that place? There
Speaker 1: are yes, Um, I don't think the Dwarf race is
Speaker 1: wipe out completely. But when they go to the minds
Speaker 1: of Maria in the first movie. Yeah, all of the
Speaker 1: dwarfs there have been slaughtered by goblins, So yeah, we
Speaker 1: don't there's more minds, I think. I'm not really sure. Again,
Speaker 1: I only know what's talked about in the movies, So
Speaker 1: if there's other information that's in the books, I don't
Speaker 1: know about that. So I guess what I'm wondering is, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I get that those traits don't really mean anything in
Speaker 1: terms of the gender dynamics. But on the one hand,
Speaker 1: if men look like women in dwarf communities, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: But also the way he's saying it is like if
Speaker 1: you don't look like a conventionally attractive, tall white woman,
Speaker 1: I thought that was the implication. Yeah, once again, I
Speaker 1: don't know how to make sense of it. Lord of
Speaker 1: the Rings Apologist, you should see me watch West World.
Speaker 1: I I can't. I mean, I can't imagine you watching Smiles,
Speaker 1: thanks alcohol and SMI is a woman. Smile is voiced
Speaker 1: by Benedict Comback. Never mind, you're right mixing it up
Speaker 1: with the dragon Strick. Oh yeah, yeah, because they look
Speaker 1: super alike. I know that. Oh yeah, well, the whole
Speaker 1: dragon is a woman with Donkey, very feminist. We talked
Speaker 1: about that in our Struck episode did really yeah, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: strongest female character in the franchise. So while we're like
Speaker 1: hanging out with a win Aergorn is all like, here's
Speaker 1: this new woman. How do I feel about this other
Speaker 1: woman that I know? And we see different flashbacks where
Speaker 1: Ericorn is basically like, we can't be together. You shouldn't
Speaker 1: sacrifice yourself for me, telling her like, let's end this
Speaker 1: without really like checking in to see like how she
Speaker 1: feels about the situation. Elrond is all I Airgorn is
Speaker 1: gonna die no matter what, and you're going to be
Speaker 1: sad about it, and then you're gonna have to live
Speaker 1: on forever being sad because apparently when your loved one
Speaker 1: dies and then you keep living, you mourn forever. There's
Speaker 1: no way to get over it. And she'll just spend
Speaker 1: her the rest of her immortal life in mourning because
Speaker 1: you know, she's just so sad that a man dies
Speaker 1: that she has to basically just like kneel by his
Speaker 1: grave forever and that's the only thing that she can do,
Speaker 1: is what the movie is, you know, suggesting will happen. Um.
Speaker 1: But then she she keeps telling people like, no, I've
Speaker 1: made my choice. This is what I choose. But no
Speaker 1: one like l rond Ergorn, they do not respect her choice,
Speaker 1: and they keep trying to convince her to choose something else.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's her choice. Do I think it's a
Speaker 1: good choice personally? Not especially? And also it's like the
Speaker 1: choice foisted upon her by well, I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: a choice voiced upon her by two women and a man.
Speaker 1: Because the Arwin story that's not you, that's, to my understanding,
Speaker 1: is not Tolkien. That's like something introduced into the narrative
Speaker 1: by the movie which is written. Yeah, yeah, I really
Speaker 1: Now I want to know what that process was. Okay,
Speaker 1: first of all, we've been over this a bit. It
Speaker 1: was the time there is like a conventional wisdom, and
Speaker 1: there was more so than to how movies were written,
Speaker 1: where it was like in those blockbusters, you must have
Speaker 1: love triangles, and I mean that's still true. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: if women are introduced because they're not the protagonists in
Speaker 1: this heteronormative space, well what else are you gonna do
Speaker 1: with them? Right? Like? What function could they serve besides
Speaker 1: being in love with a man? I want to live
Speaker 1: in a world and I'm sure because this this franchise
Speaker 1: is so intensely documented that perhaps there are other drafts
Speaker 1: of scripts available. But I like, I mean, because there's
Speaker 1: so much leather rings media, I would love for there
Speaker 1: to be a world where the female screenwriters pushed a
Speaker 1: more progressive female narrative. But because it was two thousand one,
Speaker 1: the studio said no. At least there was an effort
Speaker 1: made to give but you know, that's just that's dream.
Speaker 1: But it is something to consider, Like, the studio definitely
Speaker 1: had some impact on this script, I hope. So. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's the narrative now that every time I see a
Speaker 1: movie that doesn't treat women well or at all that
Speaker 1: is written by a woman, I sort of go to.
Speaker 1: We talked about this in the Frozen episode a little
Speaker 1: bit where there's for some reason, it's very well documented
Speaker 1: how many notes the writer of Frozen, woman named Jennifer Lee,
Speaker 1: got during the course of making that movie, where the
Speaker 1: original way the story was written was way more aggressive,
Speaker 1: and it's pretty well documented where she was getting the
Speaker 1: notes of like this has to change, or we're not
Speaker 1: going to make it. This has to change. That's great.
Speaker 1: That makes me feel better in some at least gives
Speaker 1: you some hope in that you're like, writers do want
Speaker 1: to tell these stories. It's not that they don't want
Speaker 1: to tell it, it's that men with a lot of
Speaker 1: money usually don't want to show it. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1: It's an empty It does give me some piece, I
Speaker 1: will say, it does give me some peace. Hopefully these
Speaker 1: like studio heads will start to learn that we're die honestly,
Speaker 1: probably die first. They will likely die before they respect
Speaker 1: women and then hopefully be replaced by more progressive people
Speaker 1: who are willing to fund movies that showcase women in
Speaker 1: a more positive light and you know, not adhere to
Speaker 1: such rigid gender rules. Here's hoping. And with that, let's
Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we will be right back.
Speaker 1: Good idea, Klin, thank you so. A little bit more
Speaker 1: about what happens in the Two Towers. We are hanging
Speaker 1: out with a win a little bit and they're heading
Speaker 1: to helms Deep because all the people of Rohan are
Speaker 1: in danger because there's sarmons like launching an army on them,
Speaker 1: basically classic class. He loves unleashang. So they get attacked
Speaker 1: by some orcs on these ward creatures and uh, Theadin's
Speaker 1: are like a win like lead the people to Helm's
Speaker 1: Deep because the men will fight, and she's like, no,
Speaker 1: I can stay in fight, and he's like no. So
Speaker 1: she's like trying to make a choice, like trying to
Speaker 1: be active in the story, and a man is like, no, sorry,
Speaker 1: you can't. You have to take all the women and
Speaker 1: children who are so vulnerable and um put them in
Speaker 1: caves so that they can be protected. He um. So
Speaker 1: that's pretty much her role for the rest of the
Speaker 1: movie is that she is stuck in a cave with
Speaker 1: all of the other women because she is not allowed
Speaker 1: to fight. Meanwhile, Legolis and Ghimli are making a literal
Speaker 1: game out of war. They're like, let's see who can
Speaker 1: kill more people? Won't that bring some levity to war? Yes,
Speaker 1: well kill more kind of people. Yeah. The ural Kai, although,
Speaker 1: is there like a racial thing we should address with that,
Speaker 1: because I just call them kind of people and I'm like, well, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's let's try to unpack the racism and the Lord
Speaker 1: of the Rings trilogy for a moment. We can start
Speaker 1: with the racist hierarchy of wizards. In the books, there
Speaker 1: are like brown wizards and they're a lower class uh.
Speaker 1: And then there's gray wizards and they're above brown, and
Speaker 1: then the white wizards are the highest class with the
Speaker 1: wizard hierarchy. My understanding was the goal is to get
Speaker 1: as white as possible exactly. Yes, literally, the wher you get,
Speaker 1: the more powerful you are. So that does not set
Speaker 1: a great precedent right away. The goblins, the Orcs, the
Speaker 1: uru Kai, like all the bad guys generally have darker
Speaker 1: skin compared to all of the good guys in the movie,
Speaker 1: which are you know, men, The Hobbits, the dwarves, the
Speaker 1: elves are all white as can be. Oh, there's a
Speaker 1: fun video where you can see a super cut of
Speaker 1: all of the lines in the whole Lord of the
Speaker 1: Rings trilogy spoken by actors who are people of color.
Speaker 1: Believe it or not, they all play bad guys. And
Speaker 1: it's only it's like less than a minute long. It's
Speaker 1: just some of the uru Kai who are like get
Speaker 1: a fire going, and that's pretty much. It's so no,
Speaker 1: it's so much worse than I want to believe. Also,
Speaker 1: so in the second and third movie, the bad guys
Speaker 1: and more door are recruiting mercenaries to like fill out
Speaker 1: their army of orcs, so we do see some human
Speaker 1: people but all of their like recruits are dark skin brown,
Speaker 1: come from land's foreign to whatever, like Anglo Saxon esque
Speaker 1: fantasy world that Middle Earth is. It's so vague. It's
Speaker 1: like it's so racist vague. And Peter Jackson makes the
Speaker 1: same huge misstep in King Kong, which is like at
Speaker 1: its core, the racist story that won't die, Like why
Speaker 1: do they keep making that? There are some things that
Speaker 1: keep getting rebooted there like this time we're going to
Speaker 1: fix the root problem. I was like, you can't. That's
Speaker 1: what the story is about, just make a different one,
Speaker 1: making a different one. And there is like a weird
Speaker 1: attempt to like have quote unquote racism where dwarves and
Speaker 1: elves hate each other because when we first meet Gimleian Leglis,
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, gross dwarf and he's like, I'll never
Speaker 1: hang out with an elf, and then they become friends
Speaker 1: by the end and they're like, well, it's weird because
Speaker 1: it's like you can read. I think Tolkien probably meant
Speaker 1: for this to be an allegory towards groups within humanity
Speaker 1: and like demographic groups, but it's weird when you do that.
Speaker 1: And I don't think that Lord of the Rings stands
Speaker 1: alone in this I think I think a lot of
Speaker 1: fantasy fiction falls into this trap. But it's weird when
Speaker 1: you're allegory is like, look at our divisions and factions
Speaker 1: and prejudices, except we're going to erase any people of
Speaker 1: color and we get all white right. Like it almost
Speaker 1: seems like these narratives are attempting to be like, let
Speaker 1: us put this in terms, you are comfortable with white
Speaker 1: people and all like in in the same you know,
Speaker 1: like batch of scenes completely disparaged the only people of
Speaker 1: coloring the entire movie. Oh man, I can't call them
Speaker 1: not quite people and what kind of people? Oh and
Speaker 1: so yeah, between all of that and the fact that
Speaker 1: pretty much every good guy in the movie has blue eyes,
Speaker 1: Like not that many people in the world have. Like
Speaker 1: the ratio of blue eyed people to non blue eyed
Speaker 1: people in Middle Earth is like fifty two one. Sorry
Speaker 1: to our blue eyed listeners. I I see you, I
Speaker 1: respect you, I cherish you. I'm not sorry, guys. I'm
Speaker 1: also half Swedish, so like I have a loud of
Speaker 1: resentment toward blue eyes, you know, because I didn't get them,
Speaker 1: which is fine, I'm fine with it now. But when
Speaker 1: I was in middle school. You better believe I wore
Speaker 1: contact like I did. Yeah. My mom was like, you
Speaker 1: want to fix it. You can get highlights too, and
Speaker 1: I did. She was, you know, she just wanted to
Speaker 1: make me more arian. I don't think there's anything wrong
Speaker 1: with that because you're part Cuban r Yeah, she wanted
Speaker 1: to stamp out the bad part. To know, the Cuban
Speaker 1: part is great. Uh, Like, I'm getting myself in trouble.
Speaker 1: It's hard to on this show. It is so hard
Speaker 1: to not dig yourself a holeway do it regularly. It
Speaker 1: is a part of the process. We contain multitudes. I'm problematic,
Speaker 1: you know what. I love Orlando Bloom He's like kind
Speaker 1: of trash. The rumor is that he just undresses all
Speaker 1: the time, which you've what like, he he just gets naked.
Speaker 1: That's why there is that photo of him naked on
Speaker 1: the paddle boat or whatever the picture. Yeah, because he is.
Speaker 1: It's like a known thing in dressing rooms that he
Speaker 1: just strips down doing hair and makeup, which comfortable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're that's sexual harassment. Yeah, but me hearing that at eleven,
Speaker 1: I would have been like, that's so I want to
Speaker 1: see that. Yeah, they're so open with his co star. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I wish I could be in a
Speaker 1: movie with him where he's naked. So jealous of a
Speaker 1: live tyler. All right, she doesn't kids under my Lecholis
Speaker 1: doesn't kiss. He's a hacker in this he literally doesn't
Speaker 1: get me. He's too busy. He's like, where our computers?
Speaker 1: Computers to be invented already? He probably invents computers in
Speaker 1: this world. We don't. We don't have learning before, but
Speaker 1: if we did, it's called Legois Colon hacker. He's certainly
Speaker 1: got the bandwidth for it because he's not interested in
Speaker 1: the emotions of others and has no romantic interest. He's like, like,
Speaker 1: do you remember the party with legolists that made me?
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, he's a hacker. Was right after
Speaker 1: Gandolf was like see yeah, and you know Free fell
Speaker 1: off a cliff and everyone thought he was dead. Everyone
Speaker 1: is displaying emotion in the way their character would. Hobbits
Speaker 1: are openly crying. Are Gorn is like he's over it?
Speaker 1: Gimli is crying yeah. The Legolis is just standing there
Speaker 1: like where are you people cry? He's like, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna He's like, I'm not gonna right for a couple
Speaker 1: of days, and even then it will be by myself,
Speaker 1: like I'm a hacker. Quick thing to bring up the
Speaker 1: Hobbit again. There is like a love triangle that involves
Speaker 1: him and that tari Al character that gets shoehorned into
Speaker 1: the Hobbit trilogy. So I thought maybe Leglis was a sexual,
Speaker 1: but he is. Um. I prefer Legolis who does not fuck.
Speaker 1: I think so too. I think that was his official title. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Leglis who does not fun Colan hacker, son of Megalis
Speaker 1: who did fun to have or maybe this is just
Speaker 1: the correct combination of Zeros and once he was made
Speaker 1: by a computer. I think Saron is a computer. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, Saron who does not have blue eyes? He
Speaker 1: has one eye and it is red yellow fire eye
Speaker 1: it is. But what was it before that? Right? We
Speaker 1: don't seek he's wearing a mask. But a few things
Speaker 1: also to mention that happened in Return of the King
Speaker 1: Um about a half hour in our way is she
Speaker 1: has made a decision, going against her previous decision to
Speaker 1: go to elf Heaven after all. And then that's when
Speaker 1: she sees the vision of Airgorn and her small child,
Speaker 1: and she decides to turn back, and she's like, well,
Speaker 1: if I have the chance to be a mom, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go and do that, and I better have a son, right,
Speaker 1: Motherhood is great. I have a mother and um not
Speaker 1: like you guys. So I'm not trying to disparage mothers
Speaker 1: in any way or motherhood, but it's so often that
Speaker 1: a woman's motivation in a movie is motherhood and if
Speaker 1: she isn't a mother, and it's just like, really, I
Speaker 1: don't West Girls are problematic show that I constantly apologize
Speaker 1: for and for sadger to watch. But Bandy Newton's characters
Speaker 1: motivated by a child that is fate that like they
Speaker 1: designed for her to have. It's some planted memories and
Speaker 1: they still ran with it to the end. Right Computers.
Speaker 1: Similar thing happens in like Kill Bill, where as soon
Speaker 1: as the bride finds out that she is pregnant, she's like, well,
Speaker 1: I have to drop everything and become a mother, even
Speaker 1: though I had never expressed that I wanted to be
Speaker 1: a mother up until now. So it's just a thing
Speaker 1: we a trope we see in a lot of movies
Speaker 1: and media where it's just like, you know, a woman,
Speaker 1: the idea of motherhood if that is an option for her.
Speaker 1: She's like, oh my god, Like this is motivating my
Speaker 1: every decision, especially because we know so little about our
Speaker 1: win Outside of that, that's like I think that's the
Speaker 1: main deciding thing. It's like, it's, you know, obviously, if
Speaker 1: you want to be a mother, that's totally fine, and
Speaker 1: like we we at the Bechtel Cast will not prevent
Speaker 1: you from doing so. I will, but I mean I will.
Speaker 1: I've I've stopped a lot of pregnancies, but not abortion
Speaker 1: or anything. Just like I've come in and stopped it
Speaker 1: from coming out. Yeah, She's like, because I will just
Speaker 1: turn on West World and all of a sudden, no
Speaker 1: one will be horny anymore. I'm so many orgies I
Speaker 1: have killed putting on the finale of West World the
Speaker 1: worst episode. But because we know nothing else about our win,
Speaker 1: that's why that choice is so lazy. Yes, right, Um.
Speaker 1: And then the big thing, the big you know, gender
Speaker 1: thing that happens and the whole freaking trilogy is when
Speaker 1: a Wyn disguises herself as a man, she puts on
Speaker 1: this big helmet. Yeah, yeah, exactly. She pick she picks
Speaker 1: up Mary. She's like, we're going to fight in battle together.
Speaker 1: No one wants us to, no one's allowing us to
Speaker 1: do this case be moushoe. Is that the dragon? Yes,
Speaker 1: m dragon, yes, yes, sorry, I need to make this move,
Speaker 1: I understand, have you guys done? So? Okay. So then
Speaker 1: so they ride into battle together, even though everyone's like
Speaker 1: women can't fight, and she's like, well, funk all that
Speaker 1: funk the patriarchy. I'm going to fight in this war anyway.
Speaker 1: And it's been established that the King of the Nasal,
Speaker 1: the Ring Wraiths, he he's a bad guy. But you
Speaker 1: said ring Raiths as if it was it would make
Speaker 1: us understand, like, oh, yeah, yeah, you know the Ring Ring, right,
Speaker 1: you know. I was like, yeah, yeah, So the King
Speaker 1: of the Nasgal his whole thing that's silly. Okay, sorry,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. So the whole
Speaker 1: thing with him is that he is unkillable. No living
Speaker 1: man can kill him, is what is said in the movie.
Speaker 1: So in battle at the end of the Return of
Speaker 1: the King, Awen is fighting. She is slinging her sword around.
Speaker 1: She's bad, guys, sort of. We don't get to see
Speaker 1: her fight that much. But then she is confronted the
Speaker 1: King of the Nascal. I don't know if he's named
Speaker 1: but not. He's right there and she's like, oh shit.
Speaker 1: She chops off the head of his like whatever dragon
Speaker 1: not smiled, but whatever flying winged creature that he is on.
Speaker 1: They fight a little bit and he's like, you idiot,
Speaker 1: no man couldn't kill me, And she's like She pulls
Speaker 1: off her mask and she's like I am no man
Speaker 1: stabs him through the face. His head implodes. John Jams
Speaker 1: start playing It's crazy. So this is I think, supposed
Speaker 1: to be this like big empowering moment for women where
Speaker 1: it's like, holy crap, we thought that he couldn't die,
Speaker 1: but she was a woman, so she can kill him.
Speaker 1: Voice the rules of this God. The rules of this
Speaker 1: make no sense and are not explored at all, but
Speaker 1: we're still supposed to be like, holy freaking crap. I
Speaker 1: hate when a movie is requesting that I emptily yes
Speaker 1: queen at the screen without using my brain. I don't
Speaker 1: like it. It is one of the things that annoys
Speaker 1: me most in movies. I hate it, but sometimes it
Speaker 1: works on me. Sometimes it works, and then I get
Speaker 1: even madder at myself. Later, Man, you fell for it,
Speaker 1: you got represented, you get too excited. You didn't realize
Speaker 1: it and make a fucking sense. Yeah. Yeah, it feels
Speaker 1: empty because logically this doesn't really make any sense, like
Speaker 1: why would a female identifying person be able to kill
Speaker 1: something that a male identifying person isn't able to kill?
Speaker 1: Like these rules are just like not explored at all,
Speaker 1: and it it feels like a hollow victory. Here's my
Speaker 1: apology of it. Maybe it's the myth is that no
Speaker 1: one can kill him, No man can kill him because
Speaker 1: he's such a good fighter. But he finally met the
Speaker 1: best fighter who can kill him. But that doesn't This
Speaker 1: gets back to another thing that annoys me and with
Speaker 1: female characters. How could she be the best fighter if
Speaker 1: no one formally really ever taught her. This is her
Speaker 1: first time in battle, ever fight costume to fight the
Speaker 1: first time she's done it, that's true. I guess she
Speaker 1: never says this is my first rodeo. He would have tips.
Speaker 1: That I hate is that she gives it all up
Speaker 1: to be with Faremire at the end. Right, Yeah, so
Speaker 1: she's got her like hollow yes queen moment in the
Speaker 1: end of the third movie. And then yeah, and then
Speaker 1: she becomes like sort of like a fair maid and
Speaker 1: like the rest of them where it's like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: my role now that there's no wars to be had,
Speaker 1: I can just hang out with this faremire guy and
Speaker 1: fair was considered for this role interesting too powerful. Now
Speaker 1: they're like, she's her face is too sharp. She is
Speaker 1: she looks like we need someone who looks more submissive.
Speaker 1: That's literally what it says. She looked too mean. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I love when people to say
Speaker 1: this woman looks too mean. Yeah, people said that to
Speaker 1: me all the time. I have resting mean face. And um, anyway,
Speaker 1: I think you have a resting great face. Thank you,
Speaker 1: And if you don't want to be happy, it's still great.
Speaker 1: I know. Thank you so much. Hey, let's take a
Speaker 1: quick break and then we'll be back. One more thing
Speaker 1: on on a and I'm reading is According to the
Speaker 1: DVD commentaries, an entire set piece firmare au En wedding
Speaker 1: scene was actually filmed and ultimately cut and not even
Speaker 1: included in the extended edition, Nor have any photos of
Speaker 1: the scene ever been made public, but the scene has
Speaker 1: been described by multiple sources of they went so far
Speaker 1: as to have them get married on screen, so well,
Speaker 1: at least they cut it from the movie, but also
Speaker 1: the fact that they considered it to the extent where
Speaker 1: they wrote and filmed it is troubling. Come on, well,
Speaker 1: I what money are they rolling with where they were
Speaker 1: just like, we're not even gonna show this scene to anyone?
Speaker 1: Was it the whole thing? I don't know. I'd be
Speaker 1: curious that, Like, maybe that's again, I keep going back
Speaker 1: to the female screen rights. Maybe they're like no, but
Speaker 1: it already got past them because they built a set,
Speaker 1: damn it. Maybe hey, maybe there was a female producer
Speaker 1: at the last minute who was like, we can't and
Speaker 1: that was like her falling on the sword, like that
Speaker 1: was the last the only thing she could say, right,
Speaker 1: And her name was Uma Thurman, also Owen and fair
Speaker 1: mirror Mary in the books. Apparently great, so he has
Speaker 1: to end up with a man, maybe not the one
Speaker 1: she wanted originally, but you know, you can't be a
Speaker 1: woman in a story without ending up with him hand
Speaker 1: and this is ironic, Okay, faremir and a o And
Speaker 1: had at least one sin l Baron and their grandson
Speaker 1: was Bara Here who wrote the Tale of Eric Gorn
Speaker 1: and Arwin. Oh, why was her grandkid being like, remember
Speaker 1: this guy and my grandma didn't fuck. Here's a story
Speaker 1: about him and his wife. Well weird. Do you think
Speaker 1: they passed on the lore of like, well, grandson, there
Speaker 1: was a man I wanted to fuck, but didn't pass
Speaker 1: on this legacy to grandpa, like you know who? I
Speaker 1: was my first choice, Not this guy. I hope, So,
Speaker 1: I really hope. So wait. I just remembered a female
Speaker 1: character that we did not talk about yet. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: the dead bones of the dwarf who died she Lob
Speaker 1: the spider. The pronouns used for she lab are female pronouns.
Speaker 1: So I think what we can say here is for
Speaker 1: she lab feminist icon. No, no one in this movie.
Speaker 1: I didn't even talk about feminist. So cute is a queer.
Speaker 1: I love him. He's so gone, is so expressive, and
Speaker 1: his eyes are so big, and he has this gigantic head.
Speaker 1: I love him. I just need everyone to know. Of course,
Speaker 1: I had a crush on Golub and I don't understand
Speaker 1: so he's always He's and Andy genius. No, but Caitlin
Speaker 1: can let's not. I No, you do it. You assumed
Speaker 1: the position. I'll do it, and then I'll probably cut
Speaker 1: this out. Okay, Well, do you want to hear gall lumber?
Speaker 1: Do you want to hear I'd surprised us. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: here we go. Um My, Bresh, it was perfect. It's perfect.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's perfect. It's not great. It's not my
Speaker 1: best work. Give yourself some credit. Yeah, we've been talking
Speaker 1: for a very long time. I feel like we need
Speaker 1: to wrap up. We didn't talk about did we talk
Speaker 1: about the mom On the right? There is two female
Speaker 1: characters with lines. Well, should we talk about whether or
Speaker 1: not this movie passes the pectel tests? Yeah, I guess
Speaker 1: that fits in. Okay, so there is one Well, there's
Speaker 1: two scenes that are contenders. So let's try to figure
Speaker 1: this out. In two towers. The second movie, Orcs and
Speaker 1: Oroquai are invading Rohan, and there's a mother. It's it's
Speaker 1: a it's a horse country. Um, it's where it's where
Speaker 1: Captain E. J. Smith of the Titanic, that's his realm
Speaker 1: and his wig and his wig right the way that
Speaker 1: controls his thoughts. So they're about to get invaded by
Speaker 1: the bad guys. And there's a mother who says to
Speaker 1: her son and her daughter. She's talking to the boy
Speaker 1: at first, and she says, get on the horse with
Speaker 1: your sister and go to someplace and raise the alarm,
Speaker 1: and the little girls like, I don't want to leave.
Speaker 1: I don't want to go, mama, And the mom says Freda.
Speaker 1: So we find out her name, Freda, I will find
Speaker 1: you there, and then that's it. And then they ride
Speaker 1: off on the horse, and we do find out what
Speaker 1: her name is in terms of the character. But I
Speaker 1: don't think it's ever spoken a lot by the movie.
Speaker 1: I don't think it is either. So yeah, I would
Speaker 1: argue that that I wanted it to pass. But I
Speaker 1: think if we're going by the movie, I don't buy
Speaker 1: the arguments, like, well, she had a name in the book,
Speaker 1: and it's like, so did Brett Mackenzie's character, and people
Speaker 1: just renamed him fig Wit for no reason. Also, well,
Speaker 1: if you consider the subtext of this conversation, like the context.
Speaker 1: In the subtext, she's basically telling them to leave because
Speaker 1: there are several male warriors coming about to like raid
Speaker 1: their village. Yeah, you shall not pass the test. In
Speaker 1: the scene, right, you shall not pass. That's my Gandolf
Speaker 1: impression also very good, okay um. And then later in
Speaker 1: the second movie, Freda is eating soup somewhere in Rohan,
Speaker 1: Aowen is there, Freda says where is Mama? Aowen says
Speaker 1: sh And that's that conversation. That is as close as
Speaker 1: we get because those characters are both named. But I
Speaker 1: would argue that a Owen that is technically a conversation.
Speaker 1: That's it's communication, communications, verbal communications, a line of dialogue.
Speaker 1: It depends. I would say, no, here, okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go and say this movie does not pass the backtel
Speaker 1: test because even if you wanted to argue the technicalities,
Speaker 1: there's thirty seconds or less of this movie of women
Speaker 1: interacting in a movie that is over nine hours long
Speaker 1: shall not pass. Yeah, so this movie does not pass,
Speaker 1: even though it maybe seems like it comes close. And also,
Speaker 1: when we say movie, we mean three full three hour
Speaker 1: bucking movies. We didn't have We didn't discuss one conversation
Speaker 1: that happens in the first three and a half hour movie.
Speaker 1: There's nothing to discuss. And those characters, the mother and
Speaker 1: her daughter afraid to only appear in those two scenes.
Speaker 1: They have no bearing on the story, like their scenes
Speaker 1: going to be cut from the movie. Uh, and it
Speaker 1: really wouldn't change anything. So yeah, the movie doesn't even pass.
Speaker 1: I guess to up the stakes of the people of Rohan.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I'm going to say that this movie
Speaker 1: does not pass. And of course that's not surprising at
Speaker 1: all because there are so few women in this entire
Speaker 1: world of Middle Earth. It's weird because my ex boyfriend's
Speaker 1: mom was named Darwin because her parents loved Lord of
Speaker 1: the Rings. Yeah, but how sad too. She was named
Speaker 1: after this like deeply unfeminist movie by like a very minor,
Speaker 1: minor character who gets her parents were like, she's a
Speaker 1: feminist icon because she's there, because she's literally we had
Speaker 1: three choices. We did what we could do. Gladriel was
Speaker 1: too hard to say. Awen is a ejjectively not a
Speaker 1: very good name name. Oh hell, gang shall rerate the
Speaker 1: movie on our nipple scale. Hey, what choice do we have?
Speaker 1: We don't have a choice. Yeah. Our nipple scale is uh.
Speaker 1: We rate each movie based on its portrayal and representation
Speaker 1: of women zero to five nipples. I'm between a zero
Speaker 1: and a half nipple. I'll go with a half nipple.
Speaker 1: The movie has a few women in it, great, um,
Speaker 1: not enough, not enough screen time. I guess that it
Speaker 1: gets a half nipple instead of his zero nipples because
Speaker 1: of a Owen's presence in this story and the fact
Speaker 1: that she has a goal outside of being in a
Speaker 1: romantic relationship with a man. Also, glad Reel doesn't have
Speaker 1: that goal, but she's basically there's an exposition. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: has no goals, So a Owen has as a little
Speaker 1: bit of agency. But it just everything feels like a
Speaker 1: hollow victory with her and with every female character in
Speaker 1: the story, just because they're mostly framed around the other
Speaker 1: men in the story. There's a love triangle that makes
Speaker 1: no sense to be there. Glad Reel serves a pretty
Speaker 1: flimsy function just to like deliver exposition, and she has
Speaker 1: pretty much no bearing on the story. Like it's just
Speaker 1: it's upsetting, Like, like you said, Jamie, that movie isn't
Speaker 1: outwardly hateful toward women, and then it's not like saying, oh,
Speaker 1: women are gross and bad, but it's also not giving
Speaker 1: them any chance to do anything in the narrative. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll give it a half nipple, um, even though I
Speaker 1: think that's being generous and my half nipple will go
Speaker 1: to small. I canna give it one head of one
Speaker 1: nipple because I can't give it zero because it's, like
Speaker 1: you said, it is not a franchise that is openly
Speaker 1: contemptuous of women. But I think that there is the
Speaker 1: argument that in some ways it that's even a little
Speaker 1: bit worse because at least when you revisit a problematic
Speaker 1: film franchise, you're just like, oh, I don't want any
Speaker 1: part of this anymore. This is out of my life.
Speaker 1: And hopefully, if history continues in the direction it is,
Speaker 1: it will be a franchise that is by the way,
Speaker 1: so I've forgotten because people just don't want to see
Speaker 1: that anymore. But with this film franchise, because it does
Speaker 1: not put women down and just ignores them, it won't
Speaker 1: go away. There's not enough of a reason for people
Speaker 1: who enjoy these movies to not continue to watch them,
Speaker 1: because they're not espousing, you know, like bile at you.
Speaker 1: They're not they're not saying shitty things. They're just erasing.
Speaker 1: And that is almost like a little bit worse because
Speaker 1: it's like, these movies will never go away. There's nothing,
Speaker 1: you know, because on paper, they're like, well, you didn't
Speaker 1: say anything bad. They just erased everyone. They didn't want
Speaker 1: their um So that sucks. I guess a o en
Speaker 1: and that's why one tenth of one nipple and I'm
Speaker 1: giving it to smount you know, uh, well, you know
Speaker 1: what I am going to give this. You gave it
Speaker 1: a half, you gave it a tenth. I'll give it
Speaker 1: like a fourth of a nipple, because I do think
Speaker 1: a one's a wins. Uh you and McGregor, that moment
Speaker 1: is something I think it's very hollow. It's but it's
Speaker 1: what so many movies do where it's like, here's something.
Speaker 1: It's what the entire movie of Wonder Woman kind of was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it felt kind of like I want to revisit Wonder
Speaker 1: Woman because I think even a year later, I would
Speaker 1: feel it different. And I was riding a high at
Speaker 1: the time. Oh I think I cry I'm watching it
Speaker 1: because I was like, this is beautiful. But that's the
Speaker 1: thing when I watched Lord of the Rings then versus now, then,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh cool, this is fine, no problem.
Speaker 1: B Glade Drill talks a lot, and there is a
Speaker 1: step worse, which is Master and Commander, which has no
Speaker 1: women except for once, and it's when they're like googling
Speaker 1: and they're like a hot woman, what about the latest
Speaker 1: and then there's the latest Chris Nolan movie, Boy City. Yes,
Speaker 1: also Dunker Ocean Ocean Full of Boys. Yeah, well, at
Speaker 1: least like Master and Commander has been forgotten, like no
Speaker 1: one revisits that Dunkirk. I don't think anyone's going to
Speaker 1: be like Boy Ocean forever. I don't think hopefully, hopefully
Speaker 1: they have the same fate. But yeah, so I think
Speaker 1: there is a step worse. Can't give it a zero.
Speaker 1: And of course I give that fucking quarter of a
Speaker 1: nipple to my hero. Her smell gi is a sheet
Speaker 1: for my purposes, Her majesty the Queen about that gives
Speaker 1: smile from a different franchise of one nipple. One last
Speaker 1: thing I do want to say is that she Lob
Speaker 1: is a spider. Spiders have eight legs. This is Spider
Speaker 1: Facts with Caitlin. I'm glad Alfred Billina was not in
Speaker 1: these movies. I think he very easily could have been,
Speaker 1: But I think he was busy, and I think what
Speaker 1: he was busy with with was Spider Man taking bad news.
Speaker 1: He was too brown to be in this movie. He
Speaker 1: was literally and and he's white. It's a high bar.
Speaker 1: Good Jesus that that may be true. Well, Anna, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for being hearing you too. This was delightful.
Speaker 1: It is truly an epic, an episode about as long
Speaker 1: as the movie franchise itself. So you're welcome everybody where.
Speaker 1: Can we find you on the web. You can find
Speaker 1: me at Bad Comics with an X by Anna with
Speaker 1: two ends on to Graham, I make a web comic
Speaker 1: about anxiety and depression. And also thank you my lactose intolerance.
Speaker 1: I'm very allergic to cheese, but I'm in love. I
Speaker 1: eat it every day. It's my struggle. Um. And you
Speaker 1: can also find me on Twitter same handle and uh
Speaker 1: performer used to be my show, The Pickle Hour. Jamie
Speaker 1: is a many time returning guests and Caitlin, we gotta
Speaker 1: have you want. I'd love to do it anytime. That
Speaker 1: will set it up, so we have to do it
Speaker 1: right now. Um. Yeah, this has been a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Thanks for Jamie. I know that you were reluctant to,
Speaker 1: you know, talk about an eighteen thousand hour movie. I'm
Speaker 1: such a bit and still I still enjoy this trilogy.
Speaker 1: It is very bad at women, but I will watch
Speaker 1: it periodically for the rest of my life. Probably at
Speaker 1: least we have smog. We have. You can find us
Speaker 1: online Twitter at back Teldcast. You can find us on Instagram.
Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook. It can contribute to
Speaker 1: our Matreon five dollars a month is two extra episodes
Speaker 1: of listener requests only except for when it's our birthdays
Speaker 1: and then we picked uh so so join up. It's
Speaker 1: super fun and and a fun way to participate in
Speaker 1: the community as well. We love you, You're great. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening and our sine