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Speaker 1: On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies

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Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends

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Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy zef

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Speaker 1: invest start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello, and

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante

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Speaker 1: and my name is Jamie Loftus, and this is part

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Speaker 1: two of our Lord of the Rings Trilogy episode. Hey, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: did you know that movie trilogy is really fucking long?

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Speaker 1: I did know that that past the Bechdel Test. If

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Speaker 1: you don't know what that is, get with the program.

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Speaker 1: Just kidding, But if you haven't listened to episode one

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Speaker 1: of the Lord of the Rings podcast, we recommend you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe go back to part one, listen to it through

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Speaker 1: and and this is part two. I mean, if you

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Speaker 1: just want to listen to this one, that would sort

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Speaker 1: of be like starting in the middle of Lord of

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Speaker 1: the Rings two Towers and then only watching that and which, honestly,

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Speaker 1: not to betray my opinion of this trilogy, would be

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Speaker 1: totally fine. Nothing happens the entire movie, that doesn't even matter. Disagree,

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Speaker 1: All kinds of things happen, clearly you don't remember Golem

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Speaker 1: trying to anyway. So this is part two. If you

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Speaker 1: haven't listened to part one, we recommend going and doing

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Speaker 1: that first. But otherwise do you you do, you your body,

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Speaker 1: your choice. Here's part two. So that brings us to

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Speaker 1: a Owen. She is introduced for the first time in

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Speaker 1: the second movie. She is the niece of King Theodin

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Speaker 1: of Rohan. Why did their names rhyme? Like we said,

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Speaker 1: her whole thing is that she wants to fight. All

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Speaker 1: the men get to fight. Women are you know, perceived

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Speaker 1: as being helpless in this universe and that they have

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Speaker 1: to be protected. But she is a skilled sword fighter

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Speaker 1: and she wants to do her part in this fight,

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Speaker 1: in this war, this impending war. Right, But then she

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Speaker 1: meets Ericorn and she's like, who's that? And now all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, there's a love triangle between Ergorn, Arwyn

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Speaker 1: and Awen that has almost no tension in it. There.

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Speaker 1: This is like the most boring love triangle in the

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Speaker 1: entire world. It is because it's so clear that Airgorn

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Speaker 1: is not interested. Right from moment one and again, in

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Speaker 1: the same gender neutral way that this whole story plays out,

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Speaker 1: we see her hurt being rejected by Vigo Mortensen, as

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Speaker 1: everyone at the table knows we've all been rejected. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel great and feel great, but he's not mean

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Speaker 1: to her. It's not and and there's never a particular

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Speaker 1: sexual tension between them in the first place, so it's

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Speaker 1: almost just like it's a crush that is unrequited, and

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Speaker 1: so that is not particularly compelling to watch, right, But

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Speaker 1: like this introduction of like her really kind of falling

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Speaker 1: in love with him or maybe just having like a

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Speaker 1: crush does not need to be there. She serves another

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Speaker 1: function in the story. So for her to also be

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Speaker 1: in love with them, man, I think like really sells

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Speaker 1: out her character. And and we also get one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite sellouts of the female character who is allowed

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Speaker 1: to do anything. Because I think Aoen by far is

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Speaker 1: the most active for female character and she still basically

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Speaker 1: has no my fact on the plot, but you know,

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Speaker 1: she's the most active by far. And there's that scene

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Speaker 1: where she has a sword and it's the first time

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Speaker 1: we're seeing her wheeled a sword and airgorn like notices

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Speaker 1: and it's like, hey, you can do what the boys do,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, I know, pretty cool, right, But I'll

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Speaker 1: be humble and shy about it. And then because he's

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Speaker 1: the I think that we're to believe because he's the

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Speaker 1: first man who has acknowledged she's doing it at all

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Speaker 1: and doesn't really say, like, you're really good at that,

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Speaker 1: and I respect you, but he doesn't not say that,

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Speaker 1: And I think that that is like for us, supposed

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Speaker 1: to be the entry point of like she likes him

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Speaker 1: because he's the only man she's ever met who hasn't

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Speaker 1: nagged her for her interests. I think that that's like

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Speaker 1: the root of her interest in him. It's like, well,

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Speaker 1: he didn't say I sucked like every man in my

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Speaker 1: life does, so I guess I love him. It's true.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, are you not yelling at me? Cool?

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Speaker 1: We're married? Um. And then there's more to talk about

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Speaker 1: with her character, but where her story ends. In the

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Speaker 1: one of eight hundred conclusions of this trilogy, she gets

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Speaker 1: paired up with Ferremir because Ericorn rejects her, so she

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Speaker 1: has to end up with some man. So they placed

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Speaker 1: her next to Faremere. They might they give each other

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Speaker 1: a little like CD. I. I think there's a moment

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Speaker 1: in I hate that, like the last minute, like don't worry.

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Speaker 1: She's still gonna a guy. He's like, oh no, we

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Speaker 1: weren't freaking out about it. Actually we were fined. So

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Speaker 1: they get paired up and head her own normativity is

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Speaker 1: alive and well, so I kind of want to just

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Speaker 1: kinda go through to the movies and point out a

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Speaker 1: few different things we see in terms of, you know,

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Speaker 1: the gender dynamics. So in the Fellowship of the Ring

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Speaker 1: again we opened with a woman's voice. We've got gladiol

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Speaker 1: being sort of place like omniscient narrator. Like the narration

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Speaker 1: is very inconsistent in the movie. That definitely, and then

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Speaker 1: when she does appear on screen again throughout the movies,

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Speaker 1: it's it's seldom happens, and then it's it's again to

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Speaker 1: deliver exposition narrator. I r L. Yeah. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess you could argue that it's cool that like

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Speaker 1: a woman is given like an omniscient point of view

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Speaker 1: sort of, but no, yeah, there there is a retelling

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Speaker 1: of this movie that puts her as the omniscient being,

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Speaker 1: because that's really what was implied. I think to a degree,

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Speaker 1: like this is giving it too much credit. But by

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Speaker 1: making her the narrator, it's as if she's like speaking

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Speaker 1: like this is how it all happened. So maybe in

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Speaker 1: the future of Earth, she became the king of the world.

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Speaker 1: She became the storyteller. She's like, hey, everybody, you want

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Speaker 1: to hear a story about five guys I met. She

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Speaker 1: becomes the new Gandalf, and that's kind of what he does, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it'll take ten hours of your time. Learn's like, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't, I'm good ace. Um. There is a moment

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Speaker 1: very early on in the first movie where like Gandalf

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Speaker 1: is like riding through the shire and um, there's like

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Speaker 1: all these children who are like cand off play some

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Speaker 1: fireworks and he's like okay, and then there's like a

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Speaker 1: hobbit couple and the man is like, t he I

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Speaker 1: like fireworks too, And then his wife shows up and

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Speaker 1: she's scowling because women be shrews, as we know, and

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Speaker 1: then he has to pretend like he's not having fun

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Speaker 1: and not enjoying the fireworks. And it's supposed to be

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Speaker 1: like this ha ha comical moment, but the first depiction

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Speaker 1: of a woman you see on screen is a shrewish

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Speaker 1: hobbit lady. So I feel like that really sets the

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Speaker 1: tone for the whole and aren't wait a minute, And

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Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense because Hobbits are supposed to

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Speaker 1: be so joyful, love fun. Exactly what was this woman

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Speaker 1: crashed in the party for. Well, she's a woman, so

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Speaker 1: she can't have fun. She can't have fun. Women are

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Speaker 1: not having fun in this in this series, so you're

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Speaker 1: not giggling. Then, well, I guess they go to Bilbo's party. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but that's a few minutes of screen time and then

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Speaker 1: we hardly see those characters again. Sam's wife has fun,

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Speaker 1: she had a lot of kids. Yeah, once she starts

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Speaker 1: t shirt gunning out Sam's kid. Yeah, that's actually in

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Speaker 1: the extended version. I saw you see Sam's wife give birth,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's like a machine gun of baby. Progressive

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Speaker 1: moment in cinema. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because they

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Speaker 1: show it from below. Yeah, basically a biology Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: and that's in the three D version. That is in

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Speaker 1: the three D it's we're more like Hobbits than you

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Speaker 1: would think when you see it up close. It's okay.

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Speaker 1: When we first meet our went on screen again, it's

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Speaker 1: not until over an hour into the movie it's established

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Speaker 1: that she and Agorn know each other, but it's not

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Speaker 1: We're not quite sure how or what in what context.

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Speaker 1: Her introduction is a little cool because we do meet

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Speaker 1: her by her holding a sword up to Aragorn's neck

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Speaker 1: very hot. Yes, so she is threatening his life. But

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Speaker 1: then a few scenes later you're like, oh, they're basically

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Speaker 1: engaged to be married. So so it was just like

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Speaker 1: it was like a little thing they were doing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't into Vigo watching that movie, but I think

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Speaker 1: my little whatever I was nine years old self, was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: You're like, oh, this is kind of what's happening. And

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Speaker 1: then but then think about this later, You're like, it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a few years before I can unpack this fully.

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Speaker 1: So then a few moments later in the movie, she's

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Speaker 1: like riding up on a horse. There's like angelic music.

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Speaker 1: Her dress is white, even though when it cuts to

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Speaker 1: a moment later in the Dame exact scene, she's wearing

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Speaker 1: a different dress. But she's like she comes in as

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Speaker 1: this like angel savior to like save Photo's life. She's

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Speaker 1: literally glowing. She and Galadriel are never not glowing, although

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Speaker 1: Gandalf glows too. Sometimes Gandolf does glow, he has but

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Speaker 1: but he does, but never when he's gand off the

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Speaker 1: way for that one scene, but most of the time

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Speaker 1: we see him on screen, he's he's dull, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and to be fair, all men are dull and all

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Speaker 1: women are radiants and perfect. True, however, and also the

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Speaker 1: we we don't see women who are not fabulously wealthy

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Speaker 1: and conventionally attractive glow. We do not see poor people

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Speaker 1: when when there are women on screen who are meant

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Speaker 1: to be poor, they do not glow. Habit, women do

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Speaker 1: not glow. Yeah, like if you are hot, hot royalty,

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Speaker 1: you glow. And even then it's I feel like the

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Speaker 1: only reason that a Owen is not depicted in this

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Speaker 1: way as because with Arwin and Galadriel, they're supposed to

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Speaker 1: be these like virginal women and objects of desire, where

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Speaker 1: we're I sort of interpreted. We're intended to see Aoen

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Speaker 1: a Owen Ewen McGregor. We're supposed to see a o

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Speaker 1: En as more of a girl. I don't think we're

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Speaker 1: encouraged to view her as like a sexual being in

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Speaker 1: the same way we're encouraged to see the other two.

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Speaker 1: But make no mistakes, she's still part of a royal family.

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Speaker 1: Because her uncle is the king, so she's still she's royalty,

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Speaker 1: and she's still conventionally, by Western beauty standards attractive. We

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Speaker 1: only get beautiful women. And the range in male characters.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know that's a complaint on all movies,

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Speaker 1: but the range in male characters. Man, you have a

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Speaker 1: whole species of thing that is ugly. Yet I mean

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Speaker 1: there's there. There is every well, I mean you can't

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Speaker 1: extend it to color. There are white men of every

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Speaker 1: shape and size in this film franchise. There's every kind

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Speaker 1: of white man you get ever in counter in your

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Speaker 1: entire life. You got Legless, you got the hacker, you

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Speaker 1: got you got you fro, you got fig wit, you

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Speaker 1: got fig With the Brett mackenzie character, there's short hair,

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Speaker 1: there's also long hair's hairy feet, there's smooth feet, old

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Speaker 1: not old. Wizards sometimes not wizards. The next thing that

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Speaker 1: I think is worth noting that happens in the first

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Speaker 1: movie is that we learn about the Urquai and how

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Speaker 1: they exist, which is that Saramon, the bad Wizard, not

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Speaker 1: to be confused with Sorrow on the Eye, is breeding

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Speaker 1: orcs and goblin men to make this like super race

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Speaker 1: of crazy warriors like eight fighters, all this stuff. They

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Speaker 1: take women out of the equation. There does not need

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Speaker 1: to be wounds. They are born as adults. They hatch,

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Speaker 1: they hatch out of this pile of mud poop, mud, placenta,

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Speaker 1: placent I wouldn't give it placenta. There's no placenta there, right,

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Speaker 1: it's just like a pile of mud. That love that

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Speaker 1: band mud lists are known. There's some like saran wrap

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Speaker 1: covered in muddy poop, and that they break out of

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Speaker 1: that and suddenly they're born, so that like, sure, sure,

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Speaker 1: that's how you breed urakai fun way to cut women

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Speaker 1: out of the narrative. Maybe, I mean this is also

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Speaker 1: anti feminist, but maybe the implication is that because they're

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Speaker 1: making the worst kind of obedient like creature, they can't

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Speaker 1: have women that would be too good. But you know

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Speaker 1: that puts that's not Yeah, I'm reaching. Why am I

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Speaker 1: trying to defend? Why am I trying to defend the

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Speaker 1: ranks because it doesn't deserve but there but this is

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Speaker 1: the kind of I think this is definitely the kind

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Speaker 1: of like franchise that you try to find a way

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Speaker 1: to want to defend because it isn't aggressive towards women,

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Speaker 1: it just leaves them out, and so it's harder. I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's a little harder to reconcile. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: not offensive, it's not grotesquely offensive. It's just so so

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Speaker 1: the Silent Killer. Yeah. Um. And then there's there's a

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Speaker 1: fun moment in a Rivendell, one of the Elf cities,

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Speaker 1: where Gandef is like, hey around, Actually it's like men

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Speaker 1: folk who we should like be trusting and like putting

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Speaker 1: our faith in men to rule the fate of you know,

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Speaker 1: Middle Earth. Did he mean gender men or human name,

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Speaker 1: like the race of men as opposed to the race

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Speaker 1: of elves or so that's what he means. But then

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Speaker 1: l Ron responds men men are weak. So I think

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Speaker 1: l Rond is a feminist icon. This is just feminist

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Speaker 1: icon l Rond, but which sounds a little too much

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Speaker 1: like l Ron Hubbard. I keep wanting to say l

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Speaker 1: Ron Hubbard n one name. Yeah. So that's for me

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Speaker 1: that those were like the notable things in terms of

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Speaker 1: gender in the first movie where we're introduced to Arwin

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Speaker 1: and glad Reel there for the most part, sideline, they

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Speaker 1: have so little screen time that you forget that they

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Speaker 1: exist they're both like these like fair maiden, virginal, angelic,

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Speaker 1: willowy creatures. Yes, you're like, oh, I wonder if this

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Speaker 1: movie cares about women or not, and then you remember

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Speaker 1: not even a little bit. Um. So then we get

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Speaker 1: into the Two Towers, and this is when we meet

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Speaker 1: a win and that's when it's established that she's both

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Speaker 1: a good fighter, but also she is horny for Aragorn

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Speaker 1: for I mean reasons that we've argued could makes sense,

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Speaker 1: but there's really no reason for her narratively to be

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Speaker 1: interested in Airgorn. Like that that choice was made, you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess to just like, oh, well, there's a woman

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Speaker 1: in a story, and there's head normativity all around us,

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Speaker 1: so let's make sure that she's in love with air

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Speaker 1: Gorn so that we can have a love triangle. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that happens in the books or not.

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Speaker 1: If you're if you're a fan of the books or

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Speaker 1: you've read the books, um tweet at us and let

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Speaker 1: us know if this love triangle was set up in

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Speaker 1: the books or if this is just a change made

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Speaker 1: in the film adaptation. I'd be interested to know that

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Speaker 1: because I'm sort of skeptical. I feel like it was

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Speaker 1: something that was added into the movies just to just

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Speaker 1: to make it so yeah. Yeah, So we learned that

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Speaker 1: she wants to fight and that, you know, that's her

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Speaker 1: whole thing, which I think is cool. I agree that

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Speaker 1: she is the most active character. She has the most

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Speaker 1: agency of any of the other female characters, which is

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Speaker 1: not hard because there's only two other ones and they're

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Speaker 1: basically pointless to the story. We do meet her uncle, Theaden,

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Speaker 1: who is E. J. Smith from Titanic. Oh, I forgot

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Speaker 1: about that major twist. The best tressed load of the

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Speaker 1: rings is that they captain from Titanic. Where's a wig

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Speaker 1: and it um. Then there's a scene where Gimley the

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Speaker 1: Dwarf is talking to a Owen and he's like, it's true,

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Speaker 1: you don't see many dwarf women. In fact, they are

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Speaker 1: so like in voice and appearance they are often mistaken

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Speaker 1: for dwarfmen, which hack that I mean the whole the

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Speaker 1: whole way that dwarves are portrayed at moments in this franchise.

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Speaker 1: I think that there are moments where dwarves are portrayed

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Speaker 1: as better but ultimately kind of offensive to the little

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Speaker 1: person community. I'd be interested in, like reading thoughts that

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Speaker 1: either the actors or just the reaction to that community,

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Speaker 1: to Dwarves as a whole, because I know that Dwarves

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Speaker 1: taken even larger role in the Hobbit franchise. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's like, I mean to for sure

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Speaker 1: the shad they went to battle. Yeah, I think I

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Speaker 1: mistakenly referred to them as Hobbits earlier when I was

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Speaker 1: talking about Hobbits. But there to confuse, what are so

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Speaker 1: what are dwarfs known for? What are there like trade

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Speaker 1: in this world? They're basically capitalists because they hang out

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Speaker 1: in their minds mining their precious jewels and gold and

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Speaker 1: all of that stuff. They don't want to be troubled

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Speaker 1: with the outside world. They're really just content to be

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Speaker 1: confined to their caves and there, you know, mountains where

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Speaker 1: all their treasures are. So that's the rules that are.

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Speaker 1: That's like, I think that's like literally what l Rond says,

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Speaker 1: He's like, they cared nothing for the troubles of men.

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Speaker 1: Do they die when they go to that place? There

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Speaker 1: are yes, Um, I don't think the Dwarf race is

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Speaker 1: wipe out completely. But when they go to the minds

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Speaker 1: of Maria in the first movie. Yeah, all of the

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Speaker 1: dwarfs there have been slaughtered by goblins, So yeah, we

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Speaker 1: don't there's more minds, I think. I'm not really sure. Again,

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Speaker 1: I only know what's talked about in the movies, So

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Speaker 1: if there's other information that's in the books, I don't

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Speaker 1: know about that. So I guess what I'm wondering is, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I get that those traits don't really mean anything in

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Speaker 1: terms of the gender dynamics. But on the one hand,

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Speaker 1: if men look like women in dwarf communities, that's interesting.

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Speaker 1: But also the way he's saying it is like if

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Speaker 1: you don't look like a conventionally attractive, tall white woman,

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Speaker 1: I thought that was the implication. Yeah, once again, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how to make sense of it. Lord of

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Speaker 1: the Rings Apologist, you should see me watch West World.

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Speaker 1: I I can't. I mean, I can't imagine you watching Smiles,

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Speaker 1: thanks alcohol and SMI is a woman. Smile is voiced

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Speaker 1: by Benedict Comback. Never mind, you're right mixing it up

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Speaker 1: with the dragon Strick. Oh yeah, yeah, because they look

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Speaker 1: super alike. I know that. Oh yeah, well, the whole

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Speaker 1: dragon is a woman with Donkey, very feminist. We talked

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Speaker 1: about that in our Struck episode did really yeah, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: strongest female character in the franchise. So while we're like

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Speaker 1: hanging out with a win Aergorn is all like, here's

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Speaker 1: this new woman. How do I feel about this other

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Speaker 1: woman that I know? And we see different flashbacks where

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Speaker 1: Ericorn is basically like, we can't be together. You shouldn't

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Speaker 1: sacrifice yourself for me, telling her like, let's end this

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Speaker 1: without really like checking in to see like how she

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Speaker 1: feels about the situation. Elrond is all I Airgorn is

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Speaker 1: gonna die no matter what, and you're going to be

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Speaker 1: sad about it, and then you're gonna have to live

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Speaker 1: on forever being sad because apparently when your loved one

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Speaker 1: dies and then you keep living, you mourn forever. There's

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Speaker 1: no way to get over it. And she'll just spend

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Speaker 1: her the rest of her immortal life in mourning because

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Speaker 1: you know, she's just so sad that a man dies

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Speaker 1: that she has to basically just like kneel by his

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Speaker 1: grave forever and that's the only thing that she can do,

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Speaker 1: is what the movie is, you know, suggesting will happen. Um.

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Speaker 1: But then she she keeps telling people like, no, I've

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Speaker 1: made my choice. This is what I choose. But no

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Speaker 1: one like l rond Ergorn, they do not respect her choice,

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Speaker 1: and they keep trying to convince her to choose something else.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's her choice. Do I think it's a

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Speaker 1: good choice personally? Not especially? And also it's like the

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Speaker 1: choice foisted upon her by well, I don't know, it's

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Speaker 1: a choice voiced upon her by two women and a man.

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Speaker 1: Because the Arwin story that's not you, that's, to my understanding,

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Speaker 1: is not Tolkien. That's like something introduced into the narrative

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Speaker 1: by the movie which is written. Yeah, yeah, I really

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Speaker 1: Now I want to know what that process was. Okay,

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Speaker 1: first of all, we've been over this a bit. It

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Speaker 1: was the time there is like a conventional wisdom, and

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Speaker 1: there was more so than to how movies were written,

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Speaker 1: where it was like in those blockbusters, you must have

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Speaker 1: love triangles, and I mean that's still true. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: if women are introduced because they're not the protagonists in

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Speaker 1: this heteronormative space, well what else are you gonna do

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Speaker 1: with them? Right? Like? What function could they serve besides

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Speaker 1: being in love with a man? I want to live

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Speaker 1: in a world and I'm sure because this this franchise

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Speaker 1: is so intensely documented that perhaps there are other drafts

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Speaker 1: of scripts available. But I like, I mean, because there's

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Speaker 1: so much leather rings media, I would love for there

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Speaker 1: to be a world where the female screenwriters pushed a

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Speaker 1: more progressive female narrative. But because it was two thousand one,

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Speaker 1: the studio said no. At least there was an effort

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Speaker 1: made to give but you know, that's just that's dream.

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Speaker 1: But it is something to consider, Like, the studio definitely

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Speaker 1: had some impact on this script, I hope. So. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's the narrative now that every time I see a

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Speaker 1: movie that doesn't treat women well or at all that

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Speaker 1: is written by a woman, I sort of go to.

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Speaker 1: We talked about this in the Frozen episode a little

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Speaker 1: bit where there's for some reason, it's very well documented

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Speaker 1: how many notes the writer of Frozen, woman named Jennifer Lee,

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Speaker 1: got during the course of making that movie, where the

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Speaker 1: original way the story was written was way more aggressive,

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Speaker 1: and it's pretty well documented where she was getting the

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Speaker 1: notes of like this has to change, or we're not

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Speaker 1: going to make it. This has to change. That's great.

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Speaker 1: That makes me feel better in some at least gives

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Speaker 1: you some hope in that you're like, writers do want

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Speaker 1: to tell these stories. It's not that they don't want

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Speaker 1: to tell it, it's that men with a lot of

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Speaker 1: money usually don't want to show it. Yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 1: It's an empty It does give me some piece, I

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Speaker 1: will say, it does give me some peace. Hopefully these

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Speaker 1: like studio heads will start to learn that we're die honestly,

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Speaker 1: probably die first. They will likely die before they respect

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Speaker 1: women and then hopefully be replaced by more progressive people

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Speaker 1: who are willing to fund movies that showcase women in

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Speaker 1: a more positive light and you know, not adhere to

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Speaker 1: such rigid gender rules. Here's hoping. And with that, let's

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Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we will be right back.

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Speaker 1: Good idea, Klin, thank you so. A little bit more

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Speaker 1: about what happens in the Two Towers. We are hanging

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Speaker 1: out with a win a little bit and they're heading

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Speaker 1: to helms Deep because all the people of Rohan are

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Speaker 1: in danger because there's sarmons like launching an army on them,

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Speaker 1: basically classic class. He loves unleashang. So they get attacked

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Speaker 1: by some orcs on these ward creatures and uh, Theadin's

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Speaker 1: are like a win like lead the people to Helm's

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Speaker 1: Deep because the men will fight, and she's like, no,

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Speaker 1: I can stay in fight, and he's like no. So

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Speaker 1: she's like trying to make a choice, like trying to

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Speaker 1: be active in the story, and a man is like, no, sorry,

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Speaker 1: you can't. You have to take all the women and

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Speaker 1: children who are so vulnerable and um put them in

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Speaker 1: caves so that they can be protected. He um. So

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Speaker 1: that's pretty much her role for the rest of the

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Speaker 1: movie is that she is stuck in a cave with

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Speaker 1: all of the other women because she is not allowed

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Speaker 1: to fight. Meanwhile, Legolis and Ghimli are making a literal

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Speaker 1: game out of war. They're like, let's see who can

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Speaker 1: kill more people? Won't that bring some levity to war? Yes,

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Speaker 1: well kill more kind of people. Yeah. The ural Kai, although,

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Speaker 1: is there like a racial thing we should address with that,

422
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: because I just call them kind of people and I'm like, well, okay, yeah,

423
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: let's let's try to unpack the racism and the Lord

424
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: of the Rings trilogy for a moment. We can start

425
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 1: with the racist hierarchy of wizards. In the books, there

426
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 1: are like brown wizards and they're a lower class uh.

427
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: And then there's gray wizards and they're above brown, and

428
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: then the white wizards are the highest class with the

429
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 1: wizard hierarchy. My understanding was the goal is to get

430
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: as white as possible exactly. Yes, literally, the wher you get,

431
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: the more powerful you are. So that does not set

432
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: a great precedent right away. The goblins, the Orcs, the

433
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: uru Kai, like all the bad guys generally have darker

434
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: skin compared to all of the good guys in the movie,

435
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: which are you know, men, The Hobbits, the dwarves, the

436
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: elves are all white as can be. Oh, there's a

437
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: fun video where you can see a super cut of

438
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: all of the lines in the whole Lord of the

439
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: Rings trilogy spoken by actors who are people of color.

440
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: Believe it or not, they all play bad guys. And

441
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: it's only it's like less than a minute long. It's

442
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: just some of the uru Kai who are like get

443
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: a fire going, and that's pretty much. It's so no,

444
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 1: it's so much worse than I want to believe. Also,

445
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 1: so in the second and third movie, the bad guys

446
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: and more door are recruiting mercenaries to like fill out

447
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: their army of orcs, so we do see some human

448
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: people but all of their like recruits are dark skin brown,

449
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: come from land's foreign to whatever, like Anglo Saxon esque

450
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: fantasy world that Middle Earth is. It's so vague. It's

451
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: like it's so racist vague. And Peter Jackson makes the

452
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: same huge misstep in King Kong, which is like at

453
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: its core, the racist story that won't die, Like why

454
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: do they keep making that? There are some things that

455
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: keep getting rebooted there like this time we're going to

456
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: fix the root problem. I was like, you can't. That's

457
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 1: what the story is about, just make a different one,

458
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 1: making a different one. And there is like a weird

459
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: attempt to like have quote unquote racism where dwarves and

460
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 1: elves hate each other because when we first meet Gimleian Leglis,

461
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, gross dwarf and he's like, I'll never

462
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: hang out with an elf, and then they become friends

463
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: by the end and they're like, well, it's weird because

464
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: it's like you can read. I think Tolkien probably meant

465
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 1: for this to be an allegory towards groups within humanity

466
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 1: and like demographic groups, but it's weird when you do that.

467
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: And I don't think that Lord of the Rings stands

468
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: alone in this I think I think a lot of

469
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: fantasy fiction falls into this trap. But it's weird when

470
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: you're allegory is like, look at our divisions and factions

471
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: and prejudices, except we're going to erase any people of

472
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: color and we get all white right. Like it almost

473
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: seems like these narratives are attempting to be like, let

474
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: us put this in terms, you are comfortable with white

475
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: people and all like in in the same you know,

476
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: like batch of scenes completely disparaged the only people of

477
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: coloring the entire movie. Oh man, I can't call them

478
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: not quite people and what kind of people? Oh and

479
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: so yeah, between all of that and the fact that

480
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: pretty much every good guy in the movie has blue eyes,

481
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: Like not that many people in the world have. Like

482
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: the ratio of blue eyed people to non blue eyed

483
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: people in Middle Earth is like fifty two one. Sorry

484
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: to our blue eyed listeners. I I see you, I

485
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: respect you, I cherish you. I'm not sorry, guys. I'm

486
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: also half Swedish, so like I have a loud of

487
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: resentment toward blue eyes, you know, because I didn't get them,

488
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: which is fine, I'm fine with it now. But when

489
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: I was in middle school. You better believe I wore

490
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: contact like I did. Yeah. My mom was like, you

491
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: want to fix it. You can get highlights too, and

492
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: I did. She was, you know, she just wanted to

493
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,479
Speaker 1: make me more arian. I don't think there's anything wrong

494
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: with that because you're part Cuban r Yeah, she wanted

495
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: to stamp out the bad part. To know, the Cuban

496
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: part is great. Uh, Like, I'm getting myself in trouble.

497
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: It's hard to on this show. It is so hard

498
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: to not dig yourself a holeway do it regularly. It

499
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: is a part of the process. We contain multitudes. I'm problematic,

500
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: you know what. I love Orlando Bloom He's like kind

501
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: of trash. The rumor is that he just undresses all

502
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: the time, which you've what like, he he just gets naked.

503
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: That's why there is that photo of him naked on

504
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: the paddle boat or whatever the picture. Yeah, because he is.

505
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: It's like a known thing in dressing rooms that he

506
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: just strips down doing hair and makeup, which comfortable. Yeah,

507
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: you're that's sexual harassment. Yeah, but me hearing that at eleven,

508
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: I would have been like, that's so I want to

509
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: see that. Yeah, they're so open with his co star. Yeah,

510
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: oh my god, I wish I could be in a

511
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: movie with him where he's naked. So jealous of a

512
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: live tyler. All right, she doesn't kids under my Lecholis

513
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: doesn't kiss. He's a hacker in this he literally doesn't

514
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: get me. He's too busy. He's like, where our computers?

515
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: Computers to be invented already? He probably invents computers in

516
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: this world. We don't. We don't have learning before, but

517
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: if we did, it's called Legois Colon hacker. He's certainly

518
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: got the bandwidth for it because he's not interested in

519
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: the emotions of others and has no romantic interest. He's like, like,

520
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: do you remember the party with legolists that made me?

521
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, he's a hacker. Was right after

522
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: Gandolf was like see yeah, and you know Free fell

523
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: off a cliff and everyone thought he was dead. Everyone

524
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: is displaying emotion in the way their character would. Hobbits

525
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: are openly crying. Are Gorn is like he's over it?

526
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: Gimli is crying yeah. The Legolis is just standing there

527
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: like where are you people cry? He's like, I'm not

528
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: gonna He's like, I'm not gonna right for a couple

529
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 1: of days, and even then it will be by myself,

530
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: like I'm a hacker. Quick thing to bring up the

531
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: Hobbit again. There is like a love triangle that involves

532
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: him and that tari Al character that gets shoehorned into

533
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: the Hobbit trilogy. So I thought maybe Leglis was a sexual,

534
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: but he is. Um. I prefer Legolis who does not fuck.

535
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: I think so too. I think that was his official title. Yeah,

536
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: Leglis who does not fun Colan hacker, son of Megalis

537
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: who did fun to have or maybe this is just

538
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: the correct combination of Zeros and once he was made

539
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: by a computer. I think Saron is a computer. Okay,

540
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: all right, Saron who does not have blue eyes? He

541
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: has one eye and it is red yellow fire eye

542
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: it is. But what was it before that? Right? We

543
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: don't seek he's wearing a mask. But a few things

544
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: also to mention that happened in Return of the King

545
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: Um about a half hour in our way is she

546
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: has made a decision, going against her previous decision to

547
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: go to elf Heaven after all. And then that's when

548
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: she sees the vision of Airgorn and her small child,

549
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: and she decides to turn back, and she's like, well,

550
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: if I have the chance to be a mom, I'm

551
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: gonna go and do that, and I better have a son, right,

552
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: Motherhood is great. I have a mother and um not

553
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: like you guys. So I'm not trying to disparage mothers

554
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: in any way or motherhood, but it's so often that

555
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: a woman's motivation in a movie is motherhood and if

556
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: she isn't a mother, and it's just like, really, I

557
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: don't West Girls are problematic show that I constantly apologize

558
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: for and for sadger to watch. But Bandy Newton's characters

559
00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: motivated by a child that is fate that like they

560
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: designed for her to have. It's some planted memories and

561
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: they still ran with it to the end. Right Computers.

562
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: Similar thing happens in like Kill Bill, where as soon

563
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: as the bride finds out that she is pregnant, she's like, well,

564
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,919
Speaker 1: I have to drop everything and become a mother, even

565
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 1: though I had never expressed that I wanted to be

566
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: a mother up until now. So it's just a thing

567
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: we a trope we see in a lot of movies

568
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: and media where it's just like, you know, a woman,

569
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: the idea of motherhood if that is an option for her.

570
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 1: She's like, oh my god, Like this is motivating my

571
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: every decision, especially because we know so little about our

572
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: win Outside of that, that's like I think that's the

573
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: main deciding thing. It's like, it's, you know, obviously, if

574
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: you want to be a mother, that's totally fine, and

575
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: like we we at the Bechtel Cast will not prevent

576
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: you from doing so. I will, but I mean I will.

577
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: I've I've stopped a lot of pregnancies, but not abortion

578
00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: or anything. Just like I've come in and stopped it

579
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 1: from coming out. Yeah, She's like, because I will just

580
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: turn on West World and all of a sudden, no

581
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: one will be horny anymore. I'm so many orgies I

582
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: have killed putting on the finale of West World the

583
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: worst episode. But because we know nothing else about our win,

584
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: that's why that choice is so lazy. Yes, right, Um.

585
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: And then the big thing, the big you know, gender

586
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: thing that happens and the whole freaking trilogy is when

587
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: a Wyn disguises herself as a man, she puts on

588
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: this big helmet. Yeah, yeah, exactly. She pick she picks

589
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,760
Speaker 1: up Mary. She's like, we're going to fight in battle together.

590
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: No one wants us to, no one's allowing us to

591
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: do this case be moushoe. Is that the dragon? Yes,

592
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: m dragon, yes, yes, sorry, I need to make this move,

593
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: I understand, have you guys done? So? Okay. So then

594
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: so they ride into battle together, even though everyone's like

595
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: women can't fight, and she's like, well, funk all that

596
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: funk the patriarchy. I'm going to fight in this war anyway.

597
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: And it's been established that the King of the Nasal,

598
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: the Ring Wraiths, he he's a bad guy. But you

599
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: said ring Raiths as if it was it would make

600
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: us understand, like, oh, yeah, yeah, you know the Ring Ring, right,

601
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: you know. I was like, yeah, yeah, So the King

602
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: of the Nasgal his whole thing that's silly. Okay, sorry,

603
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. So the whole

604
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: thing with him is that he is unkillable. No living

605
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: man can kill him, is what is said in the movie.

606
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: So in battle at the end of the Return of

607
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: the King, Awen is fighting. She is slinging her sword around.

608
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: She's bad, guys, sort of. We don't get to see

609
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: her fight that much. But then she is confronted the

610
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 1: King of the Nascal. I don't know if he's named

611
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,919
Speaker 1: but not. He's right there and she's like, oh shit.

612
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: She chops off the head of his like whatever dragon

613
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: not smiled, but whatever flying winged creature that he is on.

614
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: They fight a little bit and he's like, you idiot,

615
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 1: no man couldn't kill me, And she's like She pulls

616
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: off her mask and she's like I am no man

617
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,720
Speaker 1: stabs him through the face. His head implodes. John Jams

618
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: start playing It's crazy. So this is I think, supposed

619
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,439
Speaker 1: to be this like big empowering moment for women where

620
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: it's like, holy crap, we thought that he couldn't die,

621
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: but she was a woman, so she can kill him.

622
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 1: Voice the rules of this God. The rules of this

623
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: make no sense and are not explored at all, but

624
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: we're still supposed to be like, holy freaking crap. I

625
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: hate when a movie is requesting that I emptily yes

626
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: queen at the screen without using my brain. I don't

627
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: like it. It is one of the things that annoys

628
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: me most in movies. I hate it, but sometimes it

629
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,399
Speaker 1: works on me. Sometimes it works, and then I get

630
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: even madder at myself. Later, Man, you fell for it,

631
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: you got represented, you get too excited. You didn't realize

632
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: it and make a fucking sense. Yeah. Yeah, it feels

633
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: empty because logically this doesn't really make any sense, like

634
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 1: why would a female identifying person be able to kill

635
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: something that a male identifying person isn't able to kill?

636
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: Like these rules are just like not explored at all,

637
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: and it it feels like a hollow victory. Here's my

638
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 1: apology of it. Maybe it's the myth is that no

639
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: one can kill him, No man can kill him because

640
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: he's such a good fighter. But he finally met the

641
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: best fighter who can kill him. But that doesn't This

642
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: gets back to another thing that annoys me and with

643
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: female characters. How could she be the best fighter if

644
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: no one formally really ever taught her. This is her

645
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 1: first time in battle, ever fight costume to fight the

646
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,800
Speaker 1: first time she's done it, that's true. I guess she

647
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: never says this is my first rodeo. He would have tips.

648
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: That I hate is that she gives it all up

649
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: to be with Faremire at the end. Right, Yeah, so

650
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: she's got her like hollow yes queen moment in the

651
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: end of the third movie. And then yeah, and then

652
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: she becomes like sort of like a fair maid and

653
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: like the rest of them where it's like, oh, well,

654
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 1: my role now that there's no wars to be had,

655
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: I can just hang out with this faremire guy and

656
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: fair was considered for this role interesting too powerful. Now

657
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: they're like, she's her face is too sharp. She is

658
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: she looks like we need someone who looks more submissive.

659
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,320
Speaker 1: That's literally what it says. She looked too mean. And

660
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I love when people to say

661
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: this woman looks too mean. Yeah, people said that to

662
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: me all the time. I have resting mean face. And um, anyway,

663
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: I think you have a resting great face. Thank you,

664
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: And if you don't want to be happy, it's still great.

665
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: I know. Thank you so much. Hey, let's take a

666
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: quick break and then we'll be back. One more thing

667
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: on on a and I'm reading is According to the

668
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 1: DVD commentaries, an entire set piece firmare au En wedding

669
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: scene was actually filmed and ultimately cut and not even

670
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 1: included in the extended edition, Nor have any photos of

671
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: the scene ever been made public, but the scene has

672
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 1: been described by multiple sources of they went so far

673
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 1: as to have them get married on screen, so well,

674
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: at least they cut it from the movie, but also

675
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 1: the fact that they considered it to the extent where

676
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: they wrote and filmed it is troubling. Come on, well,

677
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: I what money are they rolling with where they were

678
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 1: just like, we're not even gonna show this scene to anyone?

679
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: Was it the whole thing? I don't know. I'd be

680
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 1: curious that, Like, maybe that's again, I keep going back

681
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: to the female screen rights. Maybe they're like no, but

682
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 1: it already got past them because they built a set,

683
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: damn it. Maybe hey, maybe there was a female producer

684
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: at the last minute who was like, we can't and

685
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: that was like her falling on the sword, like that

686
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: was the last the only thing she could say, right,

687
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 1: And her name was Uma Thurman, also Owen and fair

688
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: mirror Mary in the books. Apparently great, so he has

689
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: to end up with a man, maybe not the one

690
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 1: she wanted originally, but you know, you can't be a

691
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: woman in a story without ending up with him hand

692
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: and this is ironic, Okay, faremir and a o And

693
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: had at least one sin l Baron and their grandson

694
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: was Bara Here who wrote the Tale of Eric Gorn

695
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: and Arwin. Oh, why was her grandkid being like, remember

696
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: this guy and my grandma didn't fuck. Here's a story

697
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: about him and his wife. Well weird. Do you think

698
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: they passed on the lore of like, well, grandson, there

699
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: was a man I wanted to fuck, but didn't pass

700
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 1: on this legacy to grandpa, like you know who? I

701
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: was my first choice, Not this guy. I hope, So,

702
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: I really hope. So wait. I just remembered a female

703
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: character that we did not talk about yet. Oh my god,

704
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: the dead bones of the dwarf who died she Lob

705
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: the spider. The pronouns used for she lab are female pronouns.

706
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: So I think what we can say here is for

707
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:14,919
Speaker 1: she lab feminist icon. No, no one in this movie.

708
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 1: I didn't even talk about feminist. So cute is a queer.

709
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: I love him. He's so gone, is so expressive, and

710
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:32,760
Speaker 1: his eyes are so big, and he has this gigantic head.

711
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 1: I love him. I just need everyone to know. Of course,

712
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: I had a crush on Golub and I don't understand

713
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 1: so he's always He's and Andy genius. No, but Caitlin

714
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: can let's not. I No, you do it. You assumed

715
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: the position. I'll do it, and then I'll probably cut

716
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: this out. Okay, Well, do you want to hear gall lumber?

717
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: Do you want to hear I'd surprised us. Yeah, okay,

718
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: here we go. Um My, Bresh, it was perfect. It's perfect.

719
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's perfect. It's not great. It's not my

720
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: best work. Give yourself some credit. Yeah, we've been talking

721
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: for a very long time. I feel like we need

722
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,359
Speaker 1: to wrap up. We didn't talk about did we talk

723
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: about the mom On the right? There is two female

724
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: characters with lines. Well, should we talk about whether or

725
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: not this movie passes the pectel tests? Yeah, I guess

726
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: that fits in. Okay, so there is one Well, there's

727
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: two scenes that are contenders. So let's try to figure

728
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: this out. In two towers. The second movie, Orcs and

729
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: Oroquai are invading Rohan, and there's a mother. It's it's

730
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: a it's a horse country. Um, it's where it's where

731
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 1: Captain E. J. Smith of the Titanic, that's his realm

732
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: and his wig and his wig right the way that

733
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: controls his thoughts. So they're about to get invaded by

734
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: the bad guys. And there's a mother who says to

735
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: her son and her daughter. She's talking to the boy

736
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: at first, and she says, get on the horse with

737
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: your sister and go to someplace and raise the alarm,

738
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: and the little girls like, I don't want to leave.

739
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 1: I don't want to go, mama, And the mom says Freda.

740
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: So we find out her name, Freda, I will find

741
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: you there, and then that's it. And then they ride

742
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 1: off on the horse, and we do find out what

743
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: her name is in terms of the character. But I

744
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 1: don't think it's ever spoken a lot by the movie.

745
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: I don't think it is either. So yeah, I would

746
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: argue that that I wanted it to pass. But I

747
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: think if we're going by the movie, I don't buy

748
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: the arguments, like, well, she had a name in the book,

749
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: and it's like, so did Brett Mackenzie's character, and people

750
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: just renamed him fig Wit for no reason. Also, well,

751
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 1: if you consider the subtext of this conversation, like the context.

752
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: In the subtext, she's basically telling them to leave because

753
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:27,879
Speaker 1: there are several male warriors coming about to like raid

754
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: their village. Yeah, you shall not pass the test. In

755
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: the scene, right, you shall not pass. That's my Gandolf

756
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: impression also very good, okay um. And then later in

757
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 1: the second movie, Freda is eating soup somewhere in Rohan,

758
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: Aowen is there, Freda says where is Mama? Aowen says

759
00:46:55,360 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: sh And that's that conversation. That is as close as

760
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: we get because those characters are both named. But I

761
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: would argue that a Owen that is technically a conversation.

762
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: That's it's communication, communications, verbal communications, a line of dialogue.

763
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: It depends. I would say, no, here, okay, I'm gonna

764
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: go and say this movie does not pass the backtel

765
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: test because even if you wanted to argue the technicalities,

766
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: there's thirty seconds or less of this movie of women

767
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 1: interacting in a movie that is over nine hours long

768
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: shall not pass. Yeah, so this movie does not pass,

769
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 1: even though it maybe seems like it comes close. And also,

770
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: when we say movie, we mean three full three hour

771
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: bucking movies. We didn't have We didn't discuss one conversation

772
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: that happens in the first three and a half hour movie.

773
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: There's nothing to discuss. And those characters, the mother and

774
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 1: her daughter afraid to only appear in those two scenes.

775
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: They have no bearing on the story, like their scenes

776
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: going to be cut from the movie. Uh, and it

777
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: really wouldn't change anything. So yeah, the movie doesn't even pass.

778
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 1: I guess to up the stakes of the people of Rohan.

779
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I'm going to say that this movie

780
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: does not pass. And of course that's not surprising at

781
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: all because there are so few women in this entire

782
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: world of Middle Earth. It's weird because my ex boyfriend's

783
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: mom was named Darwin because her parents loved Lord of

784
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: the Rings. Yeah, but how sad too. She was named

785
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 1: after this like deeply unfeminist movie by like a very minor,

786
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: minor character who gets her parents were like, she's a

787
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: feminist icon because she's there, because she's literally we had

788
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: three choices. We did what we could do. Gladriel was

789
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 1: too hard to say. Awen is a ejjectively not a

790
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: very good name name. Oh hell, gang shall rerate the

791
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: movie on our nipple scale. Hey, what choice do we have?

792
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 1: We don't have a choice. Yeah. Our nipple scale is uh.

793
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 1: We rate each movie based on its portrayal and representation

794
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: of women zero to five nipples. I'm between a zero

795
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: and a half nipple. I'll go with a half nipple.

796
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: The movie has a few women in it, great, um,

797
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: not enough, not enough screen time. I guess that it

798
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: gets a half nipple instead of his zero nipples because

799
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: of a Owen's presence in this story and the fact

800
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: that she has a goal outside of being in a

801
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: romantic relationship with a man. Also, glad Reel doesn't have

802
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: that goal, but she's basically there's an exposition. Yeah, she

803
00:49:56,760 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: has no goals, So a Owen has as a little

804
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: bit of agency. But it just everything feels like a

805
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: hollow victory with her and with every female character in

806
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: the story, just because they're mostly framed around the other

807
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: men in the story. There's a love triangle that makes

808
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 1: no sense to be there. Glad Reel serves a pretty

809
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: flimsy function just to like deliver exposition, and she has

810
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: pretty much no bearing on the story. Like it's just

811
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 1: it's upsetting, Like, like you said, Jamie, that movie isn't

812
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: outwardly hateful toward women, and then it's not like saying, oh,

813
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: women are gross and bad, but it's also not giving

814
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: them any chance to do anything in the narrative. So yeah,

815
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: I'll give it a half nipple, um, even though I

816
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 1: think that's being generous and my half nipple will go

817
00:50:52,400 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: to small. I canna give it one head of one

818
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: nipple because I can't give it zero because it's, like

819
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: you said, it is not a franchise that is openly

820
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: contemptuous of women. But I think that there is the

821
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: argument that in some ways it that's even a little

822
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,359
Speaker 1: bit worse because at least when you revisit a problematic

823
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,879
Speaker 1: film franchise, you're just like, oh, I don't want any

824
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:24,919
Speaker 1: part of this anymore. This is out of my life.

825
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: And hopefully, if history continues in the direction it is,

826
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: it will be a franchise that is by the way,

827
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,879
Speaker 1: so I've forgotten because people just don't want to see

828
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: that anymore. But with this film franchise, because it does

829
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 1: not put women down and just ignores them, it won't

830
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,399
Speaker 1: go away. There's not enough of a reason for people

831
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: who enjoy these movies to not continue to watch them,

832
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: because they're not espousing, you know, like bile at you.

833
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: They're not they're not saying shitty things. They're just erasing.

834
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: And that is almost like a little bit worse because

835
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,120
Speaker 1: it's like, these movies will never go away. There's nothing,

836
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 1: you know, because on paper, they're like, well, you didn't

837
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:08,319
Speaker 1: say anything bad. They just erased everyone. They didn't want

838
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: their um So that sucks. I guess a o en

839
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: and that's why one tenth of one nipple and I'm

840
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 1: giving it to smount you know, uh, well, you know

841
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: what I am going to give this. You gave it

842
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: a half, you gave it a tenth. I'll give it

843
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 1: like a fourth of a nipple, because I do think

844
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: a one's a wins. Uh you and McGregor, that moment

845
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: is something I think it's very hollow. It's but it's

846
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 1: what so many movies do where it's like, here's something.

847
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 1: It's what the entire movie of Wonder Woman kind of was. Yeah,

848
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: it felt kind of like I want to revisit Wonder

849
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 1: Woman because I think even a year later, I would

850
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 1: feel it different. And I was riding a high at

851
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 1: the time. Oh I think I cry I'm watching it

852
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 1: because I was like, this is beautiful. But that's the

853
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 1: thing when I watched Lord of the Rings then versus now, then,

854
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,720
Speaker 1: I was like, oh cool, this is fine, no problem.

855
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: B Glade Drill talks a lot, and there is a

856
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 1: step worse, which is Master and Commander, which has no

857
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 1: women except for once, and it's when they're like googling

858
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 1: and they're like a hot woman, what about the latest

859
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: and then there's the latest Chris Nolan movie, Boy City. Yes,

860
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 1: also Dunker Ocean Ocean Full of Boys. Yeah, well, at

861
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: least like Master and Commander has been forgotten, like no

862
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: one revisits that Dunkirk. I don't think anyone's going to

863
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 1: be like Boy Ocean forever. I don't think hopefully, hopefully

864
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: they have the same fate. But yeah, so I think

865
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: there is a step worse. Can't give it a zero.

866
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 1: And of course I give that fucking quarter of a

867
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 1: nipple to my hero. Her smell gi is a sheet

868
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:02,280
Speaker 1: for my purposes, Her majesty the Queen about that gives

869
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:09,919
Speaker 1: smile from a different franchise of one nipple. One last

870
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 1: thing I do want to say is that she Lob

871
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 1: is a spider. Spiders have eight legs. This is Spider

872
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: Facts with Caitlin. I'm glad Alfred Billina was not in

873
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: these movies. I think he very easily could have been,

874
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: But I think he was busy, and I think what

875
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 1: he was busy with with was Spider Man taking bad news.

876
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: He was too brown to be in this movie. He

877
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: was literally and and he's white. It's a high bar.

878
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 1: Good Jesus that that may be true. Well, Anna, thank

879
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: you so much for being hearing you too. This was delightful.

880
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: It is truly an epic, an episode about as long

881
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: as the movie franchise itself. So you're welcome everybody where.

882
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 1: Can we find you on the web. You can find

883
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: me at Bad Comics with an X by Anna with

884
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: two ends on to Graham, I make a web comic

885
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:07,320
Speaker 1: about anxiety and depression. And also thank you my lactose intolerance.

886
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 1: I'm very allergic to cheese, but I'm in love. I

887
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: eat it every day. It's my struggle. Um. And you

888
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: can also find me on Twitter same handle and uh

889
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 1: performer used to be my show, The Pickle Hour. Jamie

890
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 1: is a many time returning guests and Caitlin, we gotta

891
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 1: have you want. I'd love to do it anytime. That

892
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: will set it up, so we have to do it

893
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: right now. Um. Yeah, this has been a lot of fun.

894
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: Thanks for Jamie. I know that you were reluctant to,

895
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: you know, talk about an eighteen thousand hour movie. I'm

896
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: such a bit and still I still enjoy this trilogy.

897
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: It is very bad at women, but I will watch

898
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 1: it periodically for the rest of my life. Probably at

899
00:55:55,800 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: least we have smog. We have. You can find us

900
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: online Twitter at back Teldcast. You can find us on Instagram.

901
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook. It can contribute to

902
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: our Matreon five dollars a month is two extra episodes

903
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:18,760
Speaker 1: of listener requests only except for when it's our birthdays

904
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,399
Speaker 1: and then we picked uh so so join up. It's

905
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 1: super fun and and a fun way to participate in

906
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: the community as well. We love you, You're great. Thanks

907
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: for listening and our sine