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Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, I'm

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Speaker 1: Robert sex Reese, host of The Doctor Sex re Show,

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Speaker 1: and every episode I listened to people talk about their

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Speaker 1: I'm Katie Curic, and this is turnout. As you have

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Speaker 1: no doubt heard, the election welcomed historic turnout, But what

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Speaker 1: does that turnout mean? And who actually turned out? Data

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Speaker 1: journalists are starting to comb through the numbers. I'm Neil Rothchild.

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Speaker 1: I'm the director of Audience for Axios and I also

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Speaker 1: cover politics from the data lens, and I wrote an

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Speaker 1: article about how to explain what happened in the election. Typically,

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Speaker 1: post election analysis like this is done mostly with exit polling,

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Speaker 1: but of course was no typical year because so many

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Speaker 1: people voted early this year well, exit polling is no

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Speaker 1: longer such a reliable way to get at this and

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Speaker 1: as we saw also with kind of the way polling

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Speaker 1: performed as a predictor of this election, like polling is

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Speaker 1: taking a big hit in reputation anyway, So forget exit

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Speaker 1: polls this year. To get a picture of who turned out,

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Speaker 1: data journalists like Neil can look county by county and

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Speaker 1: compare the tallied votes with available demographic information. All of

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Speaker 1: the results were looking at our official election results, uh

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Speaker 1: that are coming through each state, but you can divide

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Speaker 1: them up by each county because each state reports their

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Speaker 1: counties that feed into the state level total, which will

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Speaker 1: help to allocate electoral votes. So by looking at that

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Speaker 1: state voting total and then diving into the demographic area,

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Speaker 1: So this is a heavily Latino community, this is a

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Speaker 1: suburban area, so you can start to get a sense

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Speaker 1: of okay, so this suburb swung towards Biden by twelve

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Speaker 1: points compared to that allows you to start to really

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Speaker 1: like learn about what the key demographic trends were for

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Speaker 1: the election. What did the voting results say in these

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Speaker 1: key counties, what did the votes say? And for those areas,

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Speaker 1: what changed in compared to what areas moved further left,

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Speaker 1: which areas moved for the right, Even if in both

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Speaker 1: cases they went Trump or both went Biden, those differences

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Speaker 1: of within twenty or thirty points, even for an area

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Speaker 1: that went for Clinton and Biden, can be really telling

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Speaker 1: for the key shifts that are undergird America's like political preferences.

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Speaker 1: When comparing voting data from two thousand sixteen to Neil

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Speaker 1: identified for trends that help explain the results. So the

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Speaker 1: first point is that suburbs have undergone a fundamental shift

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Speaker 1: in favor of Democrats and away from Trump. It remains

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Speaker 1: to be seen whether this is a lasting trend for

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Speaker 1: Republicans or whether this is just a very Trump phenomenon

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Speaker 1: that people in the suburbs a kind of turned off

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Speaker 1: by his behavior and his rhetoric. The second point is

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Speaker 1: that the blue areas have gotten even more blue, and

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Speaker 1: the red areas have really dug in for Trump. So

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Speaker 1: we're not seeing a lot of cases where some urban

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Speaker 1: areas have shifted towards Trump and some rural areas have

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Speaker 1: shifted towards Biden. Each of those have really become even

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Speaker 1: more entrenched in their politics. I really think it is

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Speaker 1: kind of a trust in in institutions. And for those

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Speaker 1: in the cities and around the cities, a lot of

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Speaker 1: them work for big employers and rely on kind of

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Speaker 1: institutions like government and media and big business for both

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Speaker 1: their livelihoods and kind of how they understand reliable information,

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Speaker 1: while those in rural areas become less dependent on those

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Speaker 1: companies and on those institutions and might be more kind

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Speaker 1: of self sustaining and reject being told what to think

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Speaker 1: or how to think. And so for them, Trump more represents,

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Speaker 1: you know, this idea that opposing what everyone else kind

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Speaker 1: of just takes for truth and assumes to be the case.

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Speaker 1: He really has galvanized that support across the country. Number

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Speaker 1: three is that the white working class vote in the

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Speaker 1: Midwest did not deliver for Biden, which is funny because

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Speaker 1: that was his appeal in the Democratic primary. American middle

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Speaker 1: class brings dignity and tegrity every day to work. They

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Speaker 1: deserve the dignity and tegutor reftlected in their leaders kind

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Speaker 1: of why you would vote for him instead of Bernie

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Speaker 1: or a Warren who might have more kind of educated

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Speaker 1: and progressive appeal but might not be able to get

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Speaker 1: those working class voters in the states that Clinton lost in,

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Speaker 1: which was Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. And then the last

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Speaker 1: point that helps to complicate things a bit is that

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Speaker 1: Latino support for Trump grew in a number of key regions.

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Speaker 1: Cuban support for Trump in Miami Dade County got a

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Speaker 1: lot of the attention on election night, but it was not,

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Speaker 1: you know, unique to just that area where there was

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Speaker 1: trends towards Trump. In the Rio Grande Valley in Texas,

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Speaker 1: a number of those counties had like double digit, twenty

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Speaker 1: plus point shifts towards Trump compared to what Clinton saw.

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Speaker 1: Neil says, there are a few surprises about this election

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Speaker 1: that are worth noting. Trump has gotten more minority support

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Speaker 1: than Republican candidates for president in a couple of decades,

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Speaker 1: So he ended up, you know, being able to tap

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Speaker 1: into something that I don't think either party was really

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Speaker 1: expecting to be the case. And you know, there could

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Speaker 1: be a few factors that worked into this, like maybe

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Speaker 1: the Trump campaign on the ground operation was just able

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Speaker 1: to knock on doors in these areas that the Biden campaign,

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Speaker 1: you know, figured that could be done remotely. Maybe it's

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Speaker 1: just a high turnout election, and some of that, you know,

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Speaker 1: Latin America Catholic tradition, ended up resulting in support for

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Speaker 1: the Christian religious right for Republicans. That is also something

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Speaker 1: that people didn't see coming. Trump's rhetoric made it seem

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Speaker 1: like a gimme that Democrats would at the vast majority

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Speaker 1: and make even bigger gains in support for voters of color,

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Speaker 1: when that's actually the opposite of what we saw. As

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Speaker 1: the parties do their own election postmortems, Neal points to

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Speaker 1: a few key lessons. I think one area for soul

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Speaker 1: searching for Democrats is how Hispanic support for Trump has grown.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just the Hispanic vote, but even the

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Speaker 1: Black vote has turned towards Trump in a number of

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Speaker 1: these not enough that it became like a hugely meaningful

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Speaker 1: election trend, but even in cities like Philadelphia or Chicago

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Speaker 1: if Hillary won it by eight five points over Trump

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Speaker 1: in Biden, one handful of those by only eighty points

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Speaker 1: this year. So of course it's nowhere close to being

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Speaker 1: able to say Philadelphia or Chicago went red. But it's

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Speaker 1: these small shifts that hint at where Trump might be

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Speaker 1: able to corral more support. So for Democrats, who have

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Speaker 1: you know, grown to assume that they would always have

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Speaker 1: kind of the support of the base of people of

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Speaker 1: color in this country might make them, you know, reckon with, well,

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Speaker 1: there's more to be done and more that we need

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Speaker 1: to prove to show that we should earn these votes.

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Speaker 1: Republicans might see out of this that they can't rely

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Speaker 1: on forever having to depend on white working class voters

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Speaker 1: outside of cities, because that demographic is shrinking. It's poorer

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Speaker 1: than the rest of the country in population, it's shrinking,

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Speaker 1: incomes are getting smaller. So this coalition might have delivered

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Speaker 1: for Trump in but it's not a long term strategy,

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Speaker 1: and they need to do more to you know, grab

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Speaker 1: that working class support and earn it in cities and suburbs.

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Speaker 1: So it can't just be about kind of these rural areas.

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Speaker 1: You really need to make inroads where the population centers

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Speaker 1: are as for the rest of us. The real takeaway

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Speaker 1: is that proved we are more partisan than ever. We've

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Speaker 1: become even more polarized and even more divided, particularly by

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Speaker 1: our geography, where if you're in cities and around cities,

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Speaker 1: you believe one thing and trust a certain set of

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Speaker 1: facts and assumptions, whereas if you're outside of that and

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Speaker 1: you live in rural areas, if you live in the country,

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Speaker 1: you not only don't embrace it, but you outright reject it.

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Speaker 1: And that, you know, has shown to be a huge

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Speaker 1: groundswell of support for Trump when we come back how

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Speaker 1: to mend those divisions? An interview with author Mitch Album.

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Speaker 1: p e hopeless here in California. Give us the over attention.

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Speaker 1: We need everything you've got fast waiting on reparations would

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Speaker 1: beat the podcast. Tune in every Thursday politics and wordplay.

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Speaker 1: We fight for the people because they got us in

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Speaker 1: the worst way, from the Hill Cooper, the Bomb Bay

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Speaker 1: to Kant, from the left en clave to what the

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Speaker 1: neo Kanz every Thursday, cop the heading conversation and to

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Speaker 1: break us off with some break because we're waiting the reparations.

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Speaker 1: Listen to Waiting on Reparations on I Heart Radio, app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Adoption of

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Speaker 1: of Health and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families,

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Speaker 1: and the ad Council. Mitch Album is a journalist and

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Speaker 1: a best selling author. He wrote Tuesdays with Maury, perhaps

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Speaker 1: his most famous book, along with many others. He's a

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Speaker 1: really compassionate thinker and writer, so I thought it would

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Speaker 1: be interesting to hear his perspective on how divided we are,

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Speaker 1: the role of the media may be playing, and how

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Speaker 1: we can move forward. First, and foremost, let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the election. What a wild ride. Had you ever seen

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Speaker 1: anything like this, Mitch in your life experience before? Are no?

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Speaker 1: I mean the closest thing was probably the last one,

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Speaker 1: you know, which I thought, well, won't get any wilder

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Speaker 1: than that. I think everything that's happening right now, Katie,

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Speaker 1: is in the shadow of a very weird time. I

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Speaker 1: think the whole summer that we went through. I think

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Speaker 1: all the dividedness that's happened in the country. You know,

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Speaker 1: none of us, at least unless you're over a hundred

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Speaker 1: years old, have faced the pandemic and what it does

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Speaker 1: to your psyche, what it does to your frame of mind,

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Speaker 1: what it does to your sense of community or lack

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Speaker 1: of sense of community, how scared it makes you. And

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Speaker 1: I think all of those things are behind all the

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Speaker 1: craziness that's going on in so you know, the sports

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Speaker 1: term is a mulligan. You know, you get a mulligan

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Speaker 1: on a golf course for a year for a first

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Speaker 1: shot that just was errant. And we may need a

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Speaker 1: mulligan for this year because it was errant in its

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Speaker 1: own way. And I don't know about you, Mitch, I

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Speaker 1: guess in nineteen I'm not sure how old you were.

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Speaker 1: I US eleven, and I guess that's the closest thing

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Speaker 1: to compare what we're going through now in terms of

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Speaker 1: how divided and how passionate and how intense the division felt.

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Speaker 1: You know, the country being divided isn't new. I think

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Speaker 1: the anger that comes with the division is fairly new.

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Speaker 1: And I think that, uh, you know, they've always been

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Speaker 1: Republicans and Democrats, have always been liberals and conservatives, but

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Speaker 1: they haven't uh felt like the other one needs to

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Speaker 1: be wiped out the way it's sort of feels like now.

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Speaker 1: And I think that vitriol and that anger can be

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Speaker 1: directly tied to social media and to media in general.

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Speaker 1: And they didn't have that. I remember I was alive,

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Speaker 1: and I remember we didn't have cell phones or iPhones

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Speaker 1: or social media accounts. We had, but we had baseball

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Speaker 1: cards in our in the spokes of our bicycles. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's how high tech we were. In an essay you

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Speaker 1: wrote recently which I think got a lot of attention, Mitch,

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Speaker 1: you said, hopes for a national reconciliation may be threatened

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Speaker 1: by new battle lines. So what did you mean exactly

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Speaker 1: by that? Well, I didn't. I think that was the

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Speaker 1: headline for it. But what I wrote was, it won't

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Speaker 1: it won't really matter what we do on Tuesday if

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Speaker 1: we don't change what we do on Wednesday and Thursday

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Speaker 1: and Friday. And sadly it turned out to be prophetic

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Speaker 1: because Wednesday and Thursday and Friday were worse than Monday,

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Speaker 1: you know, uh in this particular case, because everybody was

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Speaker 1: still fighting over the results, and they still are as

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Speaker 1: we're as we're recording this, um. So you know, my

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Speaker 1: point was that vitriol and divisiveness they don't come to

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Speaker 1: a head on one day of every four years. They

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Speaker 1: take a lot longer than that to build up, and

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Speaker 1: they take a lot longer than that to bring down.

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Speaker 1: And if anybody thought that there would be an election

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Speaker 1: and then oh good, we'll all just get along with

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Speaker 1: one another, they really weren't paying very much attention to

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Speaker 1: how we became divided in the first place. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: just over an election. It was over a lot more

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Speaker 1: than that. So an election didn't election didn't create it,

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Speaker 1: An election wasn't likely to solve it. Um. But my

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Speaker 1: hope in that piece that you cited was that you know,

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Speaker 1: we tried to understand that we're a lot more like

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Speaker 1: than different. Um. But I've been saying that for a

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Speaker 1: long time and writing that for a long time. And

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Speaker 1: Maury said it to me when I wrote Tuesdays with Mari.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's probably the first time I heard it

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Speaker 1: verbalize that way. And what did he say again, exactly, Mitch.

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Speaker 1: He said, we're all more alike than different. That you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody thinks they're gonna die. Everybody knows they're going to die,

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Speaker 1: but nobody believes it. And he said, when you actually

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Speaker 1: believe it, when you start to realize. He had to

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Speaker 1: because he was dying from Luke Garret's disease and was

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Speaker 1: really facing his own mortality. He said, once you realize

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Speaker 1: you're actually going to die, you're human after all. You

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Speaker 1: feel a kinship with everybody else in the world who's suffering.

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Speaker 1: I remember once I watched him, we were we flipped

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Speaker 1: on the news. We almost never watched any television together,

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Speaker 1: but we cloked on the news in Bosnia. There was

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Speaker 1: something going on at the time, Bosnia, and they had

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Speaker 1: some footage. It was very you know, violent, and and

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Speaker 1: he started crying and I said, why, why are you crying.

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Speaker 1: He said, well, it's just so terrible. What's happening to

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Speaker 1: those people? I said, no, but you've never been there.

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Speaker 1: You never been to Bosnia. You don't know anybody from Bosnia.

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Speaker 1: He said, Mitch, when you really realize you're dying, um,

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Speaker 1: you can you feel the suffering of everybody else in

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Speaker 1: the world who's suffering as well, and you realize you

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Speaker 1: were all more like than different. I mean that was

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Speaker 1: the context in which she told me that, and I

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Speaker 1: never forgot that because you know, here he was watching

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Speaker 1: something that we all watched, just passionately, and like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad it's not here. And then we moved on

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Speaker 1: what what was different about him? Well, it was because

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Speaker 1: in his brain he had accepted the fact, you know,

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Speaker 1: he really was a human being with all the ending

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Speaker 1: that all human beings are going to face. And we

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Speaker 1: don't really walk through life accepting that until suddenly we

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Speaker 1: get hit with the doctor's diagnosis, or or we're in

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Speaker 1: a hospital all of a sudden and where we get

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Speaker 1: COVID uh and so um, that's the context that he said.

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Speaker 1: It's very very true. The problem, Katie is we have

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Speaker 1: to wait until we have a death sentence you know,

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Speaker 1: our terminal illness in order to recognize that we share humanity.

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Speaker 1: But unfortunately usually takes something like that to shake us loops.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the role of the media, because you

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Speaker 1: were very critical of the media and your essay, and honestly, Mitch,

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Speaker 1: I'm very confused about how I feel about this, So

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Speaker 1: maybe you can help me be my therapist. But you

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Speaker 1: and I have been in the media for a long time. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's changed dramatically, but where do you think the media

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Speaker 1: has gone you know, where did it go wrong in

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Speaker 1: terms of its complicity in aiding and abetting the divisiveness. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you and I probably started in the journalism

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Speaker 1: business around the same time. And I remember going to

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Speaker 1: you know, I went to Columbia Journalism School. I got

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Speaker 1: my masters there, and I remember the opening speech that

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Speaker 1: the first day of school Osborne Elliott, who I think

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Speaker 1: at the time of the editor of Newsweek. Um, he

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Speaker 1: made a speech and he talked about, well, what this

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Speaker 1: business of journalism is all about? And it was all

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Speaker 1: about having a fire in the belly to try to

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Speaker 1: get to the truth of things and and all that

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Speaker 1: and and you know, to tell the stories that needed

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Speaker 1: to be told. None of it had to do with

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Speaker 1: bringing down people, belittling people, taking a side. None of

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Speaker 1: that was ever spoken about. I mean, if anything was

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Speaker 1: the other way around, it was you know, being visible,

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Speaker 1: you know, bring the news and not you, not your views.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's not the way what we what we

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Speaker 1: call cable news today. Um. And I'm not taking sides

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Speaker 1: on any of it. I mean you can find you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty much all across the board, uh, different degrees of it.

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Speaker 1: But it's not really news in the sense that you

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Speaker 1: and I when we started in the business commentary it's commentary, right,

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Speaker 1: dis guy says, well, here's here's the factual thing that happened.

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Speaker 1: Let me tell you my opinion about it. Here's the

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Speaker 1: factual thing that happened. Here's what's wrong with it, here's

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Speaker 1: the factual thing that happened. Here's why these people are

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Speaker 1: doing what these people are doing. And so how we

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Speaker 1: got from where we were when you and I were

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Speaker 1: starting this to now, you know, you could point to

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Speaker 1: a lot of things. It's a long discussion, but somewhere

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Speaker 1: along the line, news started making money. You know this

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Speaker 1: very well, you know, and the news division started to

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Speaker 1: be places where you could see a profit was before

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Speaker 1: it was almost like something they did just for the

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Speaker 1: social good. You know, they made every television made its

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Speaker 1: money on their on the Lastie programs, and they put

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Speaker 1: the news up, you know, said okay, we have to

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Speaker 1: do the news. But when the news started to become profit, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, people started taking different directions and it has grown.

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Speaker 1: And you don't need me to rehash how Fox News

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Speaker 1: is going one direction, MSNBC another direction, CNN in another direction. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think also, I'm just going to add as as

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Speaker 1: the landscape became more fragmented, I think outlets became more niche.

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Speaker 1: So if they wanted to get an audience that was

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Speaker 1: loyal to whatever they were delivering, uh, it wasn't interesting

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Speaker 1: enough or enraging enough, because Kara Swisher calls it engagement

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Speaker 1: through enragement, that people would want to see stuff that

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Speaker 1: was conflict free or that was just the facts, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: And so as a result, I think it was more

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Speaker 1: profitable to get to to give people. I've said this

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Speaker 1: a million times, but it's so fitting after me ation

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Speaker 1: instead of information to get them riled up emotionally. And

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Speaker 1: so I think that's one of the reasons we've seen

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Speaker 1: this bifurcated media landscape bubble up and explode if you will,

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Speaker 1: in the last four years, that's right. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: seems kind of crazy, and I'm I'm you know. I

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Speaker 1: I try because I still rete for a newspaper, even

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Speaker 1: though I'm not primarily do books and movies and charities

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that, but I still write a newspaper column. Therefore,

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Speaker 1: I'm obligated to stay informed. And I watch all three

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Speaker 1: of the cable networks when I when I sit down

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Speaker 1: and watch, I will always flip back and forth because

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Speaker 1: I want to see not only the information, but I

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Speaker 1: want to see how people are playing the information, what

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Speaker 1: is it? And it's gotten to the point where it's

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Speaker 1: like reporting on different planets. You will see a totally

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Speaker 1: different broadcast on one cable news network, then you will

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Speaker 1: see on the other not the same stories, not the

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Speaker 1: same footage. Forget about the commentary. The information isn't the same.

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Speaker 1: So even what people are choosing to bring forward and

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Speaker 1: choosing to suppress is different on every single channel. That

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Speaker 1: that shouldn't be. If you've got national news, chances are

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Speaker 1: of the news of the day should be the same

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Speaker 1: on each one. If you're really just talking about the news.

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Speaker 1: Here's the important things that happened. It's not. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you literally can watch at half hour of one program

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Speaker 1: and not see anything closely related to the other. So

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Speaker 1: I think that's where it begins. Then there's a problem

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Speaker 1: with the I think the geography of the country, and

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Speaker 1: I mentioned that, um in the piece that you referenced.

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Speaker 1: I live here in Detroit, in Michigan, I have for

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Speaker 1: many years, um for over three decades now, so I

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Speaker 1: consider this my home. But I was raised in the

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Speaker 1: East and I you know, I grew up in Philadelphia,

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Speaker 1: went to college in Boston. I lived in New York

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Speaker 1: and Florida, so I know East Coast, and I worked

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Speaker 1: for some publications on the East Coast is well. I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of friends who are still air back

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Speaker 1: in the Big Cities and on the Los Angeles coast

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Speaker 1: as well. And I think somewhere along the line we

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Speaker 1: really got separated in our viewpoint of what this country

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Speaker 1: is and what the values are by where we live

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Speaker 1: and the media that we are subject to in those areas.

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Speaker 1: So I can tell you living out here in the Midwest,

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Speaker 1: I have many conversations with my friends in the East,

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Speaker 1: and they just don't get it, you know, they just don't.

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Speaker 1: They think they think people out here are nuts, you know,

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Speaker 1: or how could they or how could they this? Or

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Speaker 1: how can they? And now those are my friends. The

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Speaker 1: people who are in the media. Some have started to

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Speaker 1: take that to another level where it's like they're too

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Speaker 1: stupid to know what's good for them, and so we

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Speaker 1: need to tell them what's good for them. That should

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Speaker 1: never be a journalist position. I don't care what publication

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Speaker 1: you work for. You should never look down on people

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Speaker 1: who redo or follow you or somehow say, well, their

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Speaker 1: whole list. I'm just going to tell them what they

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Speaker 1: need and somewhere and that works for both sides, both sides,

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Speaker 1: and somewhere along the line we got into that business

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Speaker 1: of you know, we're smarter than the people who are

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Speaker 1: consuming our news, and that I think was it was

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Speaker 1: that day. I guess I buy everything you're saying, Mitch

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Speaker 1: and agree with you wholeheartedly, except I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: very hard to have this conversation when you have a

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Speaker 1: president like Donald J. Trump, And let's talk about that,

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Speaker 1: because when you have someone who is not truthful, who

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Speaker 1: behaves in a way that's let's just put it out there.

430
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: Morally repugnant, right, making fun of handicapped people grabbing women

431
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: by the you know what's um? Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. But

432
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: how do you point out when someone is, you know,

433
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: the the leader of the free world old and is

434
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:10,439
Speaker 1: trading in mistruth and misinformation? Go? Well, I mean, you know,

435
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: as I told you before we started this, I'm not

436
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: a political writer. I'm not you know what I and

437
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: I don't. But I think that's what I struggle with,

438
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,959
Speaker 1: and that's what I wrestle with. Yeah, well, I'm not

439
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: well versed enough or knowledgeable enough to evaluate the presidency

440
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 1: or how you cover the president, because it's not what

441
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: I do. But you're you're you're well informed, Mitch. You

442
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 1: you watched the news. Yeah, but but but I don't.

443
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: I'm not in the position of having to say, well,

444
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: how do you how do you deal with the question

445
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: that you asked me? You know, how do you deal

446
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: with a person who lies or a person who does

447
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,959
Speaker 1: the repugnant things as you refer to them, whatever, How

448
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: do you cover them? Fortunately, that's not my job and

449
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: I don't have to do it. But what I can

450
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: say to that is. I think there's a difference between

451
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 1: how you cover a president and how you cover of

452
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 1: people who may have voted for the president. And that

453
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: to me, when I wrote that piece, that was that

454
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: was the point that I was sort of making. I

455
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 1: think all presidents are fair game for criticism. When Joe

456
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: Biden takes over and becomes a president after the honeymoon

457
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: period that always goes on with a new president, he

458
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: will be apttly criticized, I'm sure, no matter whether he

459
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: does the greatest job in the world or not. That's

460
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: what we do in America. We criticize the president. The

461
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: Americans criticized the president, you know. They criticized Barack Obama,

462
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: they criticized George Bush. It's not going to change, but

463
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: when and that goes with the job. And I think

464
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: every president would tell you that goes. Yeah. You don't

465
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: find any president who loves the press. No, No, I've

466
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: never seen one that I can't wait to have a

467
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: press conference, you know. Uh so. But I think what

468
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: happened here, particularly as as we approach the election, is

469
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: that the criticism spilled over into the people who voted

470
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump. I think that that began with the

471
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton may that regrettable comment about you know, basket

472
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: of deplorable. I can tell you that living here in Michigan,

473
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: many people uh here in the state of Michigan took

474
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: that person. And if you remember, the state of Michigan

475
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: ended up going for Donald Trump barely in two thousand

476
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 1: and sixteen, after everybody just presumed that Hillary Clinton would

477
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: would win it. You can't say those kinds of things.

478
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 1: And I'm not picking on Hillary Clinton. That was one

479
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: sentence said by one person, but I'm using that as

480
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: a as a as an example. If you have that

481
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: sort of ad in your writing and your reporting, in

482
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: your commentary, you are going to alienate a good portion

483
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: of the country. And that that I can speak to,

484
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: because I don't believe you get to put down half

485
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: of the country, whichever half it may be, simply because

486
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: you have a position as a journalist. Your role as

487
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: a journalist is to understand both halves of the country

488
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: and understand how they come together as a whole. And

489
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: you may personally think they're not as smart as you

490
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: or or and and by the way, this does not

491
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: just go east to midwest. This goes midwest to east,

492
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: or midwest and west to There are plenty of people

493
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: who write who feel that, you know, they call liberals

494
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: with a with a quotation mark and far left and

495
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: all the rest of the they look down on them

496
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: as you know, trying to take down the country coastal,

497
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: even coastal elites as a pejorative. Yes, coastal elites is

498
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: as much of pejorative as a basket of deplorables. It's

499
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: all bad. You don't divide the country up like that.

500
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: And I think that's the new element that has happened

501
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: in our journalism. We were already heading in this direction

502
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: of you know, left and right, but now the audience,

503
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: the audience has been attacked, Uh, the voters have been attacked,

504
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: and there's this there's a sense of like you can

505
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: talk about Trump voters as if they're all the same,

506
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: and you know, I know many Trump voters. I live

507
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: in the Midwest, and I can tell you they're not

508
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: all the same, you know. And I can certainly tell

509
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: you they're not all racist or homophobic. I can tell

510
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: you that the people that I've met who voted for Trump,

511
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: many of them don't like him, you know, uh. And

512
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: they don't like him as a person. They don't like

513
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: the things that you pointed out about him, um, but

514
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, they felt that they couldn't vote for

515
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: the other party, you know. And and you shouldn't assume

516
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: that everybody who votes for somebody has the characteristics of

517
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: the person they voted for. I don't think everybody who

518
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: voted for Joe Biden or Kamala Harris is the factor

519
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: Joe Biden or Kamala Harris. A lot of people just

520
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: voted because they wanted a change. They don't want Donald

521
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: Trump in there anymore. So this is this is where

522
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: I have been critical, and you know, in one piece.

523
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like what I do for a living,

524
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: but you know, I just felt that we owe it

525
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: to our humanity and well it to our citizenship and

526
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: sense of citizenship, not to demean the people who vote

527
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: for a politician, but to try to understand them and

528
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: understand the things that are behind. Politicians are fair game,

529
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: Presidents are fair game. But regular voters and citizens should

530
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: be created with respect by the media, and I think

531
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: sometimes we fall down them. A few more thoughts from

532
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: Mitch Album and Maury right after this. As a charge nurse,

533
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: you can be a confident in dynamic leader who supports

534
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: the nursing team and guides their patient care. Grand Canyon

535
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Speaker 1: Universities are in two B s. An online degree program

536
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Speaker 1: equips you with strategies that prepare you to manage the

537
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: ever changing realities of healthcare while maintaining focus on family

538
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: support and patient outcomes. What do you think making a

539
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: difference in healthcare looks like? GCU offers over two d

540
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Speaker 1: fifty high quality online programs like this one. Find your

541
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: purpose at Grand Canyon University because it g c U.

542
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: Donty do you I call the Union Hall as its

543
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: amount of life and death? I thank these people of

544
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: planning to kill Dr King. On April four, Dr Martin

545
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: Luther King was shot and killed in Memphis. A petty

546
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: criminal named James Earl Ray was arrested. He pled guilty

547
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: to the crime and spent the rest of his life

548
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: in prison. Case closed right, James L. Ray was upon

549
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: for the official story. The authorities would pray at all

550
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: we found a gun the James L. Ray bought in

551
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: Birmingham that killed Dr King, Except it wasn't the gun

552
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: that killed Dr. King. One of the problems that came

553
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: out when I got the Ray case was that some

554
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: of the evidence, as far as I was concerned, did

555
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: not match the circumstances. This is the MLK Tapes. The

556
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: first episodes are available now. Listen on the I Heart

557
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

558
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: Make sure to check out Drink Champs, your number one

559
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: music podcast. On the Black Effect Podcast Network, hosts n

560
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Speaker 1: O r E and d J E f N sat

561
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: down with artists and icon Ya, which Vulture called one

562
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: of most significant interviews. I literally had to go like

563
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: Danos and I don't want to have to be the villain.

564
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: But when I went and did the Donda thing, he

565
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: returned and anybody had to sit back and watch the

566
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: real leader. Check out Drink Champs conversation with Yea and

567
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: many more legendary artists each and every Friday on the

568
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen

569
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. What do you think is the

570
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: way out of this this very difficult time in our history?

571
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: You know, I interviewed David Brooks and he talked about

572
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: our tribal mentality, which isn't a news flash, but I

573
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: thought he he phrased it in an interesting way. He

574
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: talked about the fact that our political party has become

575
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:14,959
Speaker 1: our ethnicity and it is so wrapped up in our identity.

576
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: You know, politics used to be something you kind of

577
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: did on the side, right, that would come up during

578
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 1: important elections, but it wasn't so defining as it is today.

579
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: So how do you break those chains and how do

580
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 1: you kind of step out of this is who I am,

581
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: and if you say anything that's different, it's almost a

582
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:42,879
Speaker 1: primal threat to my survival. Yeah, well, first of all,

583
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: I have a couple of answers to that. First of all,

584
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: I don't think we're as defined by our politics as

585
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: the people who write about politics think we are defined

586
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: by our politics. This is part of the problem. Everything

587
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: is seen through the prism of where the people who

588
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: are commenting on it tend to work. I mean, the

589
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 1: same people who are pondering this issue are the people

590
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: who are covering this issue and writing about this issue.

591
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: Whereas I can tell you that when the election is over, Okay,

592
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: this one stretching out because of the controversy over the

593
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: account of the votes, but whenever it comes to an end,

594
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 1: and a few people around here outside my window here

595
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: in Michigan, they're not spending every minute talking about politics

596
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 1: or what political party they're associated with, or what tribe

597
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,479
Speaker 1: they're associated with. These are things that the media makes

598
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: up and and and determines. So right off the bat,

599
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: you know, one of the great things for me, Katie,

600
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,959
Speaker 1: by leaving the East Coast and coming in the West

601
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: was learning that the world doesn't begin an end like

602
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: that famous New York cartoon. Oh first that second Avenue,

603
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 1: First Avenue, California. You know, Uh, there's us whole middle

604
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 1: where people just go about their lives and they really aren't.

605
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: They aren't debating about to just see the just read

606
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: that piece in the Times this morning. It's not a

607
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: sentence out here and and it's not. It doesn't it's

608
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: not what motivates people. So one the first step is

609
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 1: to recognize that out everybody to find themselves by the politics.

610
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: I think people do define themselves in America today by something,

611
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: and I think we're very identity oriented. And the for me,

612
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: the cure for that, which is the second part of

613
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: my answer to your question of three parts um, is

614
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: to put yourself in a situation where this isn't an obsession.

615
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: So I'm very blessed. I think you know that I

616
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: I operate an orphanage in Haiti, and I've been there

617
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: for the last eleven years, and I go every single

618
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: month of my life, and I'm there, you know, up

619
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,479
Speaker 1: to a week, sometimes two weeks of every month. There

620
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: is no worry about which political party you're in in Haiti.

621
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: It's where am I going to eat and where i'm

622
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: I'm how am I gonna get food? And how am

623
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: I gonna get clean water? And how and how am

624
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: I going to take care of this child that I

625
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 1: don't have any money for it? That's it. And when

626
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: you deal go to places and you don't have to

627
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: go as far as Haiti, you can do it right

628
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: here in America. There are many many places in America

629
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: where you go where you say, okay, are our concerns

630
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 1: right now? Much more basic food, education, safety. You quickly

631
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: realize the argument over who's gonna who's gonna be the

632
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: new Defense secretary really doesn't change your your daily existence.

633
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: And number three, you gotta you gotta take these these

634
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: devices and and and just say I'm gonna give myself

635
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: a limit, and then that's it. Don't dive. You know,

636
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: people somehow think that they're getting perspective by diving deeper

637
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: into social media, when actually they're narrowing their perspective as

638
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 1: they dive deeper into social media because they're just staying

639
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: on that and they're just adding another person to follow

640
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 1: on Twitter, you know, trying to get more people on Facebook.

641
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: That is not broadening your perspective. Even though you're you

642
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: feel you're growing because look how many followers I got to,

643
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: Look how many people I follow. You're not growing, You're shrinking.

644
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: You're shrinking because your perspective is shrinking and you're not

645
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: going outside that little device to see the world and

646
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: to see real people. And so the only way it's

647
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: going to change is if people really start taking to

648
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: this like they did to smoking. You know, we we

649
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: actually finally turned the corner on smoking after decades or

650
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: people said, well, I can't it's addicting, I can't do

651
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 1: anything about it. But eventually enough people died, and enough

652
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: and enough facts came out and people said, you know what,

653
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: maybe I should stop smoking. You know, maybe my kids

654
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: shouldn't start smoking. And and maybe there'll be a moment

655
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: with social media where we'll kind of realize the damage

656
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,959
Speaker 1: it's doing to us and actually start to pull back

657
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 1: from it. When that happens, then maybe you see the

658
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: temperature turned down a little bit on this national divide.

659
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: I go back to my visits with Marie again. I

660
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: would you know again, that's twenty five years ago now

661
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: died twenty five years ago. Last week that was the

662
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: anniversary of his death, And so it's twenty five years

663
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: ago that I was sitting beside him as he was

664
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: dying and asking a lot of these similar questions in

665
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 1: my own, you know, little youthful version of myself. Uh.

666
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things he said about

667
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: anger was that and you know at the time, I

668
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: remember asking him about anger too. There were angry shock

669
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: jocks and angry you know, I think Rush Limbaugh was

670
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: kind of getting started and getting big, and there's a

671
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: lot of anger going on, and the and the the O. J.

672
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 1: Simpson trial was going you know, that case was going on,

673
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 1: and right in nine five. It happened while I was there.

674
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: So there's plenty of divisiveness in the country back then.

675
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: You know, we didn't invent it in two thousand and

676
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,280
Speaker 1: And I asked him about you know, all this anger

677
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:43,240
Speaker 1: and that Mitch that reflects unsatisfied lives. You know, lives

678
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: that that are are that that don't have in them,

679
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: the the essences to feel like you have contentment, and

680
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: he mentioned you know, the love, community, family, feeling needed.

681
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: All of those things were answered to this anger when

682
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: all you have is your little world of you know,

683
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: this one said this one, and this one said this one,

684
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: and this this one. You know in sports writing, which

685
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: you know, I that's how I began. Um, there was

686
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: this thing that they used to do in New York

687
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: all the time. Uh. They would go to a manager

688
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: and they would ask him about you know, like what

689
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: do you what do you think of the other manager?

690
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: And you know, they keep pressing until they got some comment,

691
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: and then they run over to the other manager and

692
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: they'd say, he just said this about you. What do

693
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: you think about that? You know? And and he said that, well,

694
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: I said, and it's literally like stirring. It's like alchemy.

695
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 1: It's like creating anger out of nothing, you know, because

696
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: there wasn't any feud, but you started a feud and

697
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: now there's a few, you know, so to create that anger.

698
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: If that's what's happening in our political world too, it's

699
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: just like every little thing, well, what do you did

700
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: you see what he said about this. That's what twitter is.

701
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: You take this comment, comment on the comments, someone comments

702
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: on your comment, on the comment, and they comment on

703
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: that comment. They get angry, they get out. But when

704
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: you realize you don't need that to breathe, you don't

705
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,959
Speaker 1: need that to get up in the morning, you don't

706
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: need that in your life. Um, if if people can

707
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: just get back to that, uh and start to emphasize

708
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: those things that Morey said and other people said before

709
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: him about what's really critical in life, you know, and

710
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: and a sense of community, as Mr Brooks may have said,

711
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: and Maury said said to me, and he was a

712
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: big one who taught it to me, you know, a

713
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: sense of being involved in your community, sense of being needed,

714
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: a sense of helping people who need help. If you

715
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 1: want to get out of your own sense of misery

716
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: or anger, just go find somebody who has it worse.

717
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: And it's not hard to do. And that's what I

718
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: meant when I said, you go to Haiti every month.

719
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: It's the second poorest country in the world. You can

720
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: be you can get there an hour and a half

721
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: from Miami. I mean, it's not like you're flying to

722
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: the African continent. You know, it's right here, and you

723
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: land there and you see, you know, people people literally

724
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: dying because forget about COVID. They don't even know they

725
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: have COVID. They can't, you know, Uh Chica who I

726
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: wrote the last book about our little girl who we

727
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: adopted from Haiti. Her mother died giving birth to her

728
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: baby brother because there was no doctor president and she

729
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 1: had to do it herself and she started to bleed

730
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 1: and something happening. If she was in a hospital, she

731
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: never would have died. We never would have gotten, would

732
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: have adopted. All those things never would have happened. So

733
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: you realize how lives are changing on just on just

734
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: geography and and faith and where people happen to be.

735
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: And you the minute I get there, there's always something

736
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: that needs to be done, and always somebody that needs

737
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 1: some help, and always some kids we need to take

738
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: care of, and others something and you know, it goes

739
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: like that and the time flies. And I always say

740
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: to my wife, I said, we we sleep down there

741
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: on his old mattress that's maybe this thick on a

742
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: bedframe that is made out of you know, wobbly would

743
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,240
Speaker 1: in a hundred degree heat. And I always sleep better

744
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: there than I do anywhere else, including my beautiful home

745
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: that I have here in America that I'm blessed to have.

746
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: And I've asked her, so, why do you think that is?

747
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 1: You know? And she says, because you have a sent

748
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: to purpose here, you know, and you you sleep because

749
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: you know at the end of the day that you

750
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 1: did something that was important and needed. And I think

751
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: a lot of times we go to bed in America

752
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: just feeling like we just argued a lot but didn't

753
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,760
Speaker 1: necessarily make anybody else's life any different. And I'm blessed

754
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: to have found this outlet because it helps keep me.

755
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: I believe it helps keep me on a much more

756
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: even feel. Well, what advice would you give? I mean,

757
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 1: it's so inspiring, and what would you say to people

758
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 1: who say, yeah, I I want to find a deeper purpose.

759
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 1: I want to help someone who's less fortunate, but they

760
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: might not know how to start or where to go

761
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: or what they're calling would be. You know, mine became

762
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: cancer because I lost my husband, as you know, Mitch,

763
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: about twenty two years ago in January. And um, so

764
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: you know, what would you say to people in terms

765
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,919
Speaker 1: of finding something that that that that's bigger than themselves.

766
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: It's right around the corner. You do not have to

767
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: go very far in this country or anywhere else to

768
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: find it. You certainly don't have to get on a

769
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: plane and fly to Hay you to do it. There

770
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: are there are if you're young, there are nursing homes.

771
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: This is all after COVID. We of course, this discussion

772
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: is post COVID. But one of the fastest things you

773
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: could do is there are nursing homes or places for

774
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: the elderly that would just love to have someone come

775
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: and visit and sit and talk. Play piano if you

776
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: know how to play piano, read a story, if you're

777
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: a good reader. I mean, the simplest little thing. There

778
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: you go there around every corner of where everybody lives.

779
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: You know, there are so many young people who need

780
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: mentors and who would just thrill at the idea of

781
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 1: having someone take them to lunch, or take them to

782
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: a movie once a week, or go play ball with

783
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,280
Speaker 1: them or whatever I mean. And they're not hard to find.

784
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: It's it's really as someone you know, I you know,

785
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: I oberate a lot of charities here in Detroit. I

786
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 1: meet people all the time who tell me exactly what

787
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: you just said. I like to get involved. I said,

788
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: here's my number or here's the email. Just we'll get

789
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 1: you involved. And there's a thousand things that you can

790
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 1: choose from. It's not that hard to give of yourself

791
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: in this country. In fact, God bless this country for

792
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 1: being so charitable. There are other places in the world

793
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: that people hold up as great countries, and they are

794
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: great countries, are beautiful and all the rest of it,

795
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: but they don't have this charitable sense that we do

796
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: in America. This idea that giving a charity, getting involved, volunteering,

797
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: all the rest of that stuff. It's it's it's uh.

798
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: I don't want to say it's uniquely American. It's very American.

799
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: And and there are so many organizations, so many charities

800
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 1: set up to who want your help. Uh, you know,

801
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: and I feel like saying that We'll tell everybody who

802
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: talk to has that problem that they can call me.

803
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 1: But I'm afraid you have a big audience. I might

804
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: never get up, but you know, they can call it.

805
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,919
Speaker 1: Certainly check in with their local agencies. There's many many

806
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 1: places need volunteers. That's true. Well, in closing, Mitch, since

807
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 1: it's the twenty five anniversary of of Maury's death, maybe

808
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: we should end on on how he changed your life

809
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: and how he made your life better and richer, and

810
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: what you can share from Maury that may do the

811
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: same for people listening to this. So one time I

812
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: watched a bunch of people come and visit Maury um

813
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: on the day that I was there, and they all

814
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 1: followed this same pattern. They had seen him on TV

815
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,439
Speaker 1: with Ted Copple and all that, and they weren't really

816
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: great friends, but they hadn't known him a little bit.

817
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: They wanted to come talk to them and and but

818
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: they were kind of nervous about how to talk to

819
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: a dying person. So they had like a strategy. They

820
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: had photos and stuff, and they were all set to

821
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: cheer him up, you know. And I would watch one

822
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: at a time. They would go into Maury's office, the

823
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 1: door would close, spent an hour to come out an

824
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: hour later in tears. But they would be crying about

825
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: their love life, their divorced, their work. There's something all

826
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: about them. And they said, well, I don't know what happened.

827
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: I went in and tried to cheer him up, but

828
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: after about five minutes he started talking to me and

829
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: started asking me questions about my life. And so I

830
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: started talking and started asking me more questions. I started

831
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: really talking. Next thing I know, I was crying. Whatever.

832
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: I wanted to try to cheer him up, but he

833
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: ended up cheering me up. So I watched this Happened

834
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: Katie so many times, and finally I went into him.

835
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 1: I said, I don't get it. You're the one who's

836
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 1: dying from Blue Garry's disease. You know you've hit the

837
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,399
Speaker 1: motherload of sympathy here. Why don't you just say, let's

838
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: not talk about your problem, Let's talk about my problem.

839
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: And he looked at me as if I had stepped

840
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: off of a spaceship, and he said, Mitch, why would

841
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: I ever take from people like that? Taking just makes

842
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: me feel like I'm dying. Giving makes me feel like

843
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 1: I'm living. And I've never forgotten that sentence. It's profound,

844
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: it's short, it rhymes, so it's easy to remember. Giving

845
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: makes me feel like I'm living. But it's so true.

846
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: And I have found when I was seeing him. When

847
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: I first went to go see him, I was all

848
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: about my career, my ambition, my success. I don't think

849
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: I was a jerk necessarily, but I certainly wasn't concerned

850
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: about other people. I was concerned about how fast can

851
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: I get ahead? Um the years that have passed since,

852
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,919
Speaker 1: particularly since Tuesdays and more of the book came out

853
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: and people started talking to me about that and knowing

854
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: me more for that than anything else that I did,

855
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: Um have been so much more satisfying and and so

856
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,879
Speaker 1: much more about, you know, and my involvement now. I mean,

857
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 1: my life is sixty charitable stuff and and I couldn't

858
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:03,640
Speaker 1: be busier. But I'm so much more um satisfied then

859
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: when I was just trying to shovel coal into my

860
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,439
Speaker 1: own furnace, you know. And and so I would say

861
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: that that whole notion of giving is living has really

862
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: proven to be true, you know. And uh Um, I

863
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: thank him for that because it's, uh it's guided my life,

864
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, to the point. You know, it's what ended

865
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: up bringing me to Haiti and ended up you know,

866
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: I have fifty two children I raised there now and

867
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 1: and I never had any of that without that change

868
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: in perspective. And it's never too late to change that perspective,

869
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:39,760
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, my wife and I became parents

870
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 1: when we were in our late fifties to this little

871
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: girl from Haiti who had a brain tumor. But we

872
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: brought up thinking we'll get her operated on and we'll

873
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 1: bring her right back to Haiti and she'll be fine.

874
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: And she never went home, you know, And she ended

875
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 1: up living with us for two years while we travel

876
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 1: around the world trying to find a cure. And even

877
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: though ultimately, you know, we were not successful, and she

878
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: died when she was seven, but those two years that

879
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: we had changed our lives, you know, forever, forever, and

880
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: we didn't lose a child. We were given one, you know,

881
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 1: and it was an amazing blessing. And it never would

882
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 1: have happened if if I hadn't been following Morey's suggestion

883
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: of you know, giving is what makes you feel alive,

884
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 1: and she certainly did us, so I think. And I'm

885
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: not unique in any way, and I'm not special in

886
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: any way. All these things anybody can do, anybody can

887
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 1: have happened, just you want to change your perspective. That's

888
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:42,240
Speaker 1: all thanks again to Mitch Album. His most recent book

889
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: is called Finding Chica, a Little Girl, an Earthquake and

890
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: the Making of a Family, and a big thank you

891
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: to Neil Rothschild and his Turnout analysis at Axios. Be

892
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: sure to follow me on social media and go to

893
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: Katie Currek dot com to subscribe to my morning newsletter

894
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: called wake Up Call. You'll get a little bit of

895
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: Katie every morning in your inbox and what could be

896
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 1: better than that. Turnout is a production of I Heart

897
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: Media and Katie Couric Media. The executive producers are Katie

898
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 1: Curic and Courtney Littz. Supervising producers Lauren Hansen. Associate producers

899
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: Derek Clements, Eliza Costas and Emily Pento. Editing by Derrick

900
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 1: Clements and Lauren Hansen, Mixing by Derrick Clements. Our researcher

901
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 1: is Gabriel Loser and special thanks to my right hand

902
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: woman Adriana Fasio. Meanwhile, yes, I'm Katie Curic. Thanks so

903
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:52,280
Speaker 1: much for listening everyone. We'll see you next time. Back

904
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:10,760
Speaker 1: Oh jama Anna Stralinia in California. The Gangster Chronicles podcast

905
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: is a weekly conversation that revolves around the underworld and

906
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: criminals and entertainers to victims, crime and law enforcement. We

907
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: cover all facets of the game. Gainst the Chronicles podcast

908
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: doesn't glorify from modilicit activities. We just discussed the ramifications

909
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: and repercussions of these activities, because, after all, if she

910
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Speaker 1: played gainst games, you are ultimately rewarded with gangster prizes.

911
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,839
Speaker 1: Our Heart Radios number one for podcasts, but don't take

912
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Speaker 1: our award for it. Find Against the Chronicles podcast and

913
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast. Hey,

914
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: it's Bobby Bones from the Bobby Cast. We are Nashville's

915
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Speaker 1: most listen to music podcast. In depth interviews with your

916
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Speaker 1: favorite country artists plus the biggest songwriters and producers in Nashville,

917
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: all from the comfort of my own home so it

918
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: gets a little more laid back. They're sharing stories behind

919
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 1: the biggest songs and country music, and personal stories that

920
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Speaker 1: you will not hear anywhere else. Do If you love

921
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Speaker 1: country music, I think you will love this podcast. Listen

922
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Speaker 1: to The Bobby Cast on I Heart Radio, Apple Podcasts,

923
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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts.