WEBVTT - Betrayal Weekly: EP 30 - Tina 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:07.000 A friend of mine described it really well. She said, 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:09.000 it's not like he's a catch me if you can 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:16.160 type person. He actually lies to make himself as normal 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:21.680 as possible, just like your average vote. And it's true 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:36.840 his bacade was authenticity. 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.840 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, A show about 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.120 the people we trust the most and the deceptions that 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:51.200 change everything. Tina Maya is a successful e commerce consultant 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:57.320 in the UK. In twenty sixteen, a casual, romantic fling 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:02.320 turned her entire world upside down. It showed her a 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:07.679 dark side of humanity, one that she'd never seen before. 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.840 There's definitely an element of control. He can walk away, 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:17.960 but he can remotely control the rest of your life. 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.959 Her story is also one of community. Along the way, 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:25.720 she found a group of other women who had been 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:30.000 deceived and betrayed by the same man. Tina's become their 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:39.039 spokesperson and the spokesperson for a much larger story. Tina 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:41.479 was raised to be opinionated and strong willed. 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:46.960 So I was born in Iran actually before the revolution. 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.559 We came here in nineteen seventy eight, and I grew 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:56.600 up in Southeast England, though very green leafy parts of 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:57.040 the world. 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:02.200 When she graduated from university, traveled and spent years living abroad. 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.160 I went to Australia, in Thailand and India, as well 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:10.280 a lot of places Costa Rica. You know that I 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.239 spent a lot of time to building my career and 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:15.120 living life. 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.000 In the nineties and two thousands, Tina was early to 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:23.560 adopt the internet's potential, especially for commerce and online retail. 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:27.560 She made a career working in digital sales that ended 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:29.799 up taking her to New York City, where she met 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:34.119 her husband. By her mid thirties, he welcomed a son, Leo. 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:39.400 He was an incredible baby and I really enjoyed becoming 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:39.760 a mother. 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.760 But her husband, on the other hand, struggled. 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:48.840 He wasn't a very handsome father. It was just sea 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:50.560 with me. It gets work for a while. 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.120 When Tina was offered a prestigious job back in the UK, 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.040 she separated from her husband and made the leap. Now 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.920 her daily life was focused on work and raising her son. 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:06.800 For Tina, being a single mom to one child felt manageable. 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:08.880 She loved that dynamic. 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:14.480 I was at a mom's drinks thing and I remember 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.040 having a conversation with one of the moms who had 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:21.119 a lot of problems with the second child sitting. They're like, God, 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.800 you got to write like one child the dream. 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.840 When her son started grade school, Tina had more nights 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:30.480 to herself. 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:33.959 He spends more time with friends, he goes sleepovers, but 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:39.360 a little bit more independence. I wasn't actively going out 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:41.600 and dating or anything like that. I was so busy. 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:46.200 I wasn't even thinking about dating. It wasn't on the radar. 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:51.080 In twenty sixteen, she attended a tech conference in London. 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.760 That day she must have met in exchange contact info 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:59.480 with at least thirty people, one of them being Neil Lahman. 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:05.960 He's a very charismatic person. He's very good looking. I 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:07.960 suppose he was a bit flirtatious. 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:13.080 Neil was from Essex. To put it in American terms. 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:17.640 I guess the American version would be Jersey shure. 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:23.039 Think party culture in SPRAYTNDS. Tina's interaction with Neil was 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:27.719 nothing special, just a friendly exchange of business cards. She 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:32.559 assumed it was a professional connection, but soon Neil began 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:34.440 texting her, and. 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:38.000 Then one day he texted me and I had just 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:42.800 closed a very significant deal. So I was in a 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.839 very good mood, and he said that he was in 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:48.360 the area and asked me if I fancied. 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.040 Going for a drink that night. Her son was at 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:51.600 a sleepover. 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:54.680 I said, you know what, why not. 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.039 It was perfect timing, so they met at a neighborhood pub. 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.640 We sat down and started talking. He was very open, 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.680 asked me about you my life. 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.599 She talked about her son and her ex husband in America, 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.920 and Neil shared details about his past. 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.120 He told me that his ex wife they lived together 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.760 in the US, and she had cheated on him and 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:25.279 she'd run off with his best friend. 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:30.040 The reason his wife had left was because Neil couldn't 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:31.040 have kids. 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:35.240 She was very bitter about the fact that he couldn't 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:38.480 give her children. And then he went on to tell 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.600 me about the fact that he'd had cancer and has 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.720 testicular kind of it was impossible. 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:48.720 It was a touchy subject. Neil seemed deeply hurt by 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.120 his ex wife. Tina felt for him. 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.320 He seemed almost a little bit vulnerable, like he had 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.240 this sort of emotional vulnerability about him. 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.800 The name was going well, and before long they found 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:06.560 themselves in another bar, making jokes and inching closer together. 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.160 She liked him, but she wanted to keep it casual. 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:17.200 I didn't see it as being a long term, serious 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.320 relationship prospect. That was not where my head was. It's 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.400 not the sort of time that I had. I wasn't 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:27.040 interested in bringing anyone into my son's life. It was 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:31.320 just letting my head down and having a bit of fun. 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:35.760 Really, and Neil knew how to have a good time. 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.640 He had that sort of cheeky, chappy jack the lad 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.880 kind of thing about him. It was fun. 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:46.360 At the end of their night together. 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:49.919 He walked me home in the very early hours of 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:50.440 the morning. 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.840 They kissed good night, and Neil said he wanted to 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:57.400 see her again. He was often in her area because 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:00.800 he owned and managed a few properties there. He promised 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:02.960 to text the next time he was in her neighborhood, 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.920 and he did so. After their first night out together. 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.920 He continued to text me, and then he would come 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.120 over once a week or so. 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.080 Tina couldn't remember the last time she had a fling 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.600 like this. It had to have been well before her marriage. 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.080 It was just what she needed. It made her feel 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:28.960 sexy and confident. Before they slept together, I. 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:31.440 Said to him that it wasn't on the pill. Does 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:36.280 he have anything. He said, no, I'm really allergic to 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:37.000 They text. 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:41.800 Tina was forty one, and after his testicular cancer treatments, 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:47.040 Neil couldn't have kids without the pill or using regular condoms. 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:49.360 They settled on another method. 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:55.760 I was quite adamant about using withdrawal methods, and I 0:07:56.040 --> 0:08:00.280 asked him, did you withdraw in time? Because I could 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:04.400 have gone and got a plan B, but he was like, no, absolutely. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.000 Over the next few months, they saw each other whenever 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:13.120 they could, and Tina got to know more about him. 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.640 He said that he went to the London School of Economics, 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:22.600 which is sort of Harvard Business School level. 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.680 But when Tina tried to talk about the neighborhood where 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.960 are the schools located? Neil seemed confused, like he didn't 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:33.400 know the area. But it had been decades since Neil 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.240 was in school, so Tina didn't think much of it. 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:40.480 I didn't really question it too much. I wasn't thinking 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:45.120 of him as husband's material or something, so things weren't 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:46.760 registering too much with me. 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.520 Eventually, Neil's appeal started to wear off. 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.000 There was just one too many things that just wasn't 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.320 adding out for ringing true, like he would make a 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:02.079 plan and then have some weird excuse and like it 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:03.400 started to be less fun. 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:07.680 Now she was ready to move on, so she stopped 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:09.480 responding promptly to his texts. 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.240 Kind of wanted to phase it out anyway, So it 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:14.160 got a little cold. 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.719 A few weeks later, she didn't feel quite like herself. 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:23.160 It was misplacing things. I was looking for my car 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:27.000 keys all over the place and realized that I turned 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.720 them in the wheelie bin with my rubbish when I 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:32.360 threw the rubbish out. 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.000 This feeling was familiar. 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.400 Funny thing. I normally handy things like that. When I'm pregnant. 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.600 I don't get morning sickness, I don't get cravings, but 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:46.600 I get very forgetful. 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.319 She confided in a friend about what was going on. 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:53.240 She said, to me, go and get a pregnancy test. 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.160 And she said, as soon as you do that, I 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:59.000 mean you realize that you know you're not pregnant. Then 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:01.360 the period of I'm like, you know that. That's a 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:02.040 really good idea. 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:04.559 So she got the test. 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.480 So I went to the back room and read the 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:11.280 instructions and then yeah, popped the lad on your space 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:18.200 to wait three minutes. Immediately came up quite nant. Okay, 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.679 I'll just wait the full three minutes for the knot 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:22.560 to come up. 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:28.720 She was pregnant at forty one. Even though it was 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:34.120 unexpected and unplanned, she felt immediately connected to this child. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:40.120 It's hard to describe, but she was very present in me, 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:46.360 very early on. There was something very very strong about 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:50.120 this presence, and I felt that right away. 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:54.720 Even still, it was a massive shock because the baby 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:56.199 had to be meals. 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.320 There hadn't been anybody else. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:05.040 But Neil was infertile, so this baby was a medical miracle. 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:09.720 Tina turned to her friend, who suggested maybe Neil would 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:11.400 be happy about the baby. 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.800 She was like, oh, all these years, he didn't know 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:16.920 that he could have children. 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.240 Miracle baby or not. Tina knew that she and Neil 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.040 didn't have a future together. Now she had to break 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.640 up with him and tell him the news. 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.680 Wow, okay, this is going to be awkward. There. 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.720 She took a few days to think and finally sent 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:37.560 Neil a message. 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:42.400 So I said, I need to talk to you, but 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.800 to meet up tomorrow. I can come to meet you, 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.520 but need to have a little chat. And then he 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.640 said something along the lines of yeah, yeah, sure, I'll 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:58.000 send my brother to meet you and I know because 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.920 we need to talk. And he said, well, I don't 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.960 see why there's anything you can't tell me here. I 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.160 was like, really, you want me to tell you what 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.920 I need to tell you over text and he said yeah. 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:15.600 I was like, okay, Hi, if you insist, and so 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.760 I said, I am pregnant. You are the only option 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:25.080 of who the father is. And then he answered a 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:29.520 little bit strangely, he said, nice, try. I had a 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:34.480 vasect to me and I was like thesectomy and I 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.320 sent him a picture of the pregnancy test and I said, 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.480 well it didn't work. 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.840 She wasn't expecting anything from him. 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.080 One of the things that I immediately said was I'm 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:53.520 not expecting or asking you to be a father to 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.680 the child. I am letting you know because it's a 0:12:55.720 --> 0:13:00.000 responsible thing to do, and you can be as I'm involved, 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.040 as you wish. 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.800 She didn't know how he would react, but she certainly 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:08.600 wasn't expecting what happened. 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:14.200 Next. Things turned nasty on his part, which took me aback. 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:19.000 He said, the whole load of nasty voice mails. 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:24.200 Hi, T you know, let's talk about this baby. Okay. Now, 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.200 there's something very strange about this baby. Let me explain 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:27.520 it to. 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.960 You, and you could just hear in his voice that turn, 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.520 and how nasty he became. Its like real viteroal. 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.320 In these messages, Neil doubled down on his story. 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:44.880 I have zero span is medically impossible. If it were, 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.679 I'd still be living happier with my wife in the USA. 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:51.800 We split up because she wanted kids and I couldn't 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.199 have them. 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:57.199 As the messages and cars kept coming, they got more personal. 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.120 He's the thing that you'd be a single mom, you 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.200 won't be able to get a job, and you won't 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:03.400 be able to work. 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:07.000 And you'll be poor, then meaner, and. 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:10.520 Oh he accused me of thinking of him as a 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:11.160 cash can. 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.880 Then kind of scary, and then. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.560 He said that he had gone to the police and 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:20.120 reported me to the police. At first he said harassment, 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:23.560 and then he said that he'd reported me for entrapment. 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.640 And some of his messages were downright strange. 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:30.920 He started to come up with a story when he 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:35.640 was in the hospital with his kidney infection, they found 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.160 cancer cells, and how selfish I am, and what a 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.200 horrible person I am at having told him that I 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:45.960 was pregnant, then that I'm basically killing him. 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:49.680 From her first date with Neil, she knew he wasn't 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:53.600 a keeper. She had no idea he could be this cruel. 0:14:53.880 --> 0:15:00.160 Whoa, this is not normal. This was really strange. 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.360 So I'm going to tell you something. I will have 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.200 nothing to do with you, nothing to do with you 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.720 claiming I'm father of your child. You can keep the baby. 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.720 Great for you, but it ain't mind, darling. It's seriously, seriously, 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:16.160 he isn't mine. 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.920 I just thought he was an asshole. My friend, she's 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.480 kinder than me, thought that he was in some sort 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.200 of state of shock because he thought he could never 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:25.480 have children. 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.120 But Neil wasn't in shock, and he wasn't in denial. 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.520 Tina didn't know it at the time, but this was 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:34.560 something far more insidious. 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.440 This is something that he's got too many, many, many 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:38.320 many times over. 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.040 When Tina Maya told the man she'd been casually dating 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:03.880 she was pregnant, he became a different person. Neil Lawman 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:07.640 started sending her callous voice messages about how the baby 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:12.880 could not possibly be his. He even accused Tina of harassment. 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.640 Regardless of his disturbing reaction, Tina wanted to have the 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:21.200 baby on her own. She was sure of that, so 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:25.560 after his vitriolic messages, she drew a boundary with Neil. 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.280 They said, yeah, I'll let you know when she's born 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.200 and you can decide to be what to have a 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:36.280 dnatist or not. That's you're right, And then he replied, no, 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:40.360 thank you. I will not be participating in any dnatist. Okay, 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:41.800 no worries. 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.280 As far as Tina was concerned, Neil was out of 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:46.680 the picture, and. 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.320 I went on obviously I had a lot to deal with. 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.720 She blocked him and moved forward with the rest of 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:55.960 her pregnancy. It wouldn't be her first time as a 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:59.840 single mom. Tina's friends and family rallied around her to 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:04.879 buy support, and she needed it, especially when the baby 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:05.280 was born. 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:08.840 When I went into labor, both she and I got 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.040 an infection. She wet blue, and she was there in 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:17.159 an incubator. She also had very very very bad georgice. 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:23.239 Her newborn baby, Josephine, was in critical condition. She had 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:27.080 a severe lung infection. The doctor wanted to prepare for 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:28.280 a blood transfusion. 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:30.680 He said, so, you know, just in case the worst 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.320 case scenario, we're going to need to get medical history, 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:38.360 blood types of parents, in cases some kind of rarity, 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.840 the genetic rarity or something like that. I was like, well, 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:42.159 I could only give you half. 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:47.120 But half wasn't good enough, especially considering Neil's history of cancer. 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:51.760 There was probably a complex medical history that we needed 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.600 to know about before we get this baby a blood transfusion. 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:56.160 She was two days old. 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.440 Instead of reaching out to Neil, she decided to call 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.720 one of his friends, the only friend of his she 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:04.760 knew how to reach. 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:09.400 Citizen. Here's my hospital number, and this is the doctor's name. 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:14.440 Can you just have him tell them bloodsite, any kind 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.280 of medical history, anything like that. 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.560 Neil's friend tried to get him to go or at 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.159 least to call the hospital at Is. 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.640 I know absolutely. I told him he needs to get 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.440 his hose down there right away. 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:30.360 But Neil never showed up. 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:33.920 No call has come through to researchers. So yeah, he's 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.080 not here and has not been here. 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.440 And then while Tina was lying in her hospital bed, 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.200 she got a text from Neil. 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:48.560 He sent me long abusive text messages. There, I wouldn't 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:52.520 lift a finger to help your child, even if she 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.320 did have my DNA, and not giving any information to 0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:04.680 any doctors. Oh oh, okay, you are a psychopath. This 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:08.120 is a two day old baby, and all I asked 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:12.240 is for you to make a phone call, which anybody 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:17.560 would do for a stranger's baby, for a kitten. No 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:24.240 human being would refuse to make a phone call to potentially, say, 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:24.960 a baby. 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:31.479 But Neil refused. He was not interested in helping the baby. 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.600 He was more concerned with lashing out at Tina that 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:36.520 he called. 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:41.880 Me vile, tongued, foul woman and all sorts of horrible name. 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:45.439 It's aye, I just give them birth. I was in 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:49.760 hospital with needles stuck in me for the antibiotics and 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.440 things like that. But this is a really evil person. 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:55.760 She was beyond anger. 0:19:56.480 --> 0:20:00.000 I was disgusted. I was disgusted. I was like, yeah, 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:02.919 wherever you are, you have no humanity. 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.720 Up until this moment, she'd planned to raise the baby 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.719 completely on her own, without asking Neil for a single penny, 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:16.280 But after he showed his true colors, she decided, you 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.040 know what, I'm just going to send the Chelseapool Agency 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:20.639 how to keep for the next eighteen years. 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:22.080 Bye bye. 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.879 She figured the courts could handle Neil and she and 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:30.680 her family could move on. Luckily, her newborn daughter recovered 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:32.280 without needing a blood transfusion. 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.560 After a week of being in hospital, we were both 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:36.480 able to go home. 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.879 When she got home with Josephine or Fifi as she 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.440 calls her, their house was full of joy. Her son, 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:45.879 who was eight, became a doting big brother. 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:52.080 Right son adored her from day one and she's just 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:53.760 the sweetest baby. 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:57.560 Now. With two children to support, Tina had to return 0:20:57.600 --> 0:20:59.240 to work just two weeks later. 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.199 I took the mandatory two weeks and went back to 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.679 work and I was back on a train in London. 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:08.920 I had a nanny and my friend helped me out 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.440 also with Hope and yeah to work. 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:16.000 One day, while she was on her way to work, 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.720 she decided to call the UK's child support agency to 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:24.120 get the paperwork started for child support. After they looked 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:29.479 into Tina's claim, the agency contacted her with surprising news 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:30.640 about Neil. 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:34.840 It came back that firstly, it said that he only 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:39.359 had to pay five pounds a week because he was 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:40.440 in receipt. 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:45.320 Of benefits, meaning that Neil was on unemployment. But that 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:47.919 didn't add up to Tina. She met him at a 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:52.600 tech conference. He owned his own company. She'd met his coworkers. 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.120 She tried to explain this to the child support agency, 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:57.280 and I. 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.920 Said, well, he's not, and if he is, he shouldn't 0:21:59.920 --> 0:22:04.320 be because he's got a business. I mean seen it. 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:06.840 I know he has a functioning business. 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.920 But the government didn't have records of his businesses or income. 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:13.640 And that wasn't all. 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:16.840 Yeah. The interesting thing was that five pounds a week 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:21.160 it was split between my daughter and three other children. 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:27.800 I was like, okay, so here's a new spin. 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:34.600 Neil had three other children, what about his story of 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:40.560 being infertile. Tina went into investigation mode, searching for business 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:42.600 and personal records of Neil Lawman. 0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:46.240 I went all the way back to one from a 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:47.439 number of years ago. 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:51.359 In Neil's records, she found the name of a woman, 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:55.119 someone who changed her last name to Lawman. 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:59.560 Says, okay, that must be his ex wife. If she 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:01.520 is an it might be his current wife. 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:04.359 Maybe this was the woman he'd been married to in 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:08.880 the States. But Tina didn't really know what to believe anymore. 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:11.080 At this point, I realized that there's a lot of 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:16.159 lie So I go on Facebook, and Norman isn't a 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:20.360 common name. I'd put it up and there's her Facebook profile. 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:23.600 The first thing she noticed about her profile. 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:27.520 She was not in America, She's right here in the UK. 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:29.440 And the second. 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:34.280 Pictures of two girls who are undoubtedly his daughter's. 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:40.880 Looking at the photos of two little girls clearly related 0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:45.760 to Neil made Tina's headspin. At the very least, she 0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:47.600 knew she'd found the right person. 0:23:48.520 --> 0:23:52.639 So I text her on Facebook and yeah, obviously I 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:55.000 didn't know what to expect. I didn't know how she 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:58.520 would react, if she would respond at all. I didn't 0:23:58.520 --> 0:24:00.440 know if they were still married, and he'd like about that. 0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:04.760 I I had no idea what to expect from this, 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:07.439 but yeah, what could I do? So I wrote her 0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:12.159 message and she immediately responded. The first line of a 0:24:12.359 --> 0:24:17.240 very long message said, I'm so so sorry that you'd 0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:28.680 have been his victim. 0:24:33.000 --> 0:24:36.359 When Tina applied for child support, she discovered a trove 0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:41.600 of information about her daughter's biological father, Neil Lahman. First 0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:45.879 that he was on unemployment and claimed he was unable 0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:49.199 to make child support payments. He wasn't the high flying 0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:53.560 tech guy he'd pretended to be. Second that he already 0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:58.200 owed child support for three other children. The whole story 0:24:58.320 --> 0:25:03.880