WEBVTT - A Virtually Realistic TechStuff 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:07.920 Get in touch with technology with text up from dot 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:14.840 com Ever, everyone, and welcome to tex Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland, 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.919 and today I have a special guest in the studio 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:21.919 with me, Ruben Medina. How are you, Ruben. I'm good, 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:25.160 I'm here. I'm live in the studio. Yeah. Ruben is 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:28.240 a is a friend of mine. He's a local performer 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:35.199 here in Atlanta and improvisational genius now expectations. He's an 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:40.400 improvisational performer with moments of genius. And Rubens also written 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:44.640 for video game outlets that we often have conversations online 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.960 just about like issues in the video game world. This 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:50.519 is absolutely true. We'll just so there and say like, 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:53.440 oh man, it's crazy in it, and then uh, I'm like, yeah, 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:56.640 I can't believe that Polygon gave that a six point 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:58.880 five when clearly was a seven point four at least, 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:03.200 what's that about it? Together game journalists? But I let 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:05.920 I wanted Reuben to come onto the show, and I 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.960 gave him, of course, the opportunity to choose whatever topic 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:11.679 he wanted to talk about, and uh, you really want 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.600 to talk about virtual reality? Yeah? To escape my own 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.880 perilous and terrible life, I can totally understand that. I mean, 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.199 we has been the promise of virtual reality ever since 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:24.240 we first heard the term. Do you remember, you know, 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.920 approximately when you first heard about virtual reality? Geez um, 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:30.360 So I guess for reference, like I'm twenty eight, so 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:32.480 one of the first times I can I don't know, 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.720 probably like lawnmower Man or Johnny Demonic is one of 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.880 the first pop culture references I really saw to it. Yeah, 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.520 lawnmower Man was like, that was like the thing that 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:46.880 totally destroyed virtual reality in a way because the well 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.520 one Klant's lawnmar Man. It's terrible movie, but too well hey, no, 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.640 completely right now, It's awesome in its own way. It's 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:58.720 just not well made. It's still entertaining, just not the 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.000 way it was necessarily in ended to be in relative 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:04.400 to Johnny Nemonic, I mean that's true. We're we're talking, 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:11.079 you know, in comparison, but iced tea. Yeah, I mean, 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:14.120 that's that's a tough competition any way you slice it. 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.120 But the issue, and we'll talk about this more in 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:20.320 a little bit, was that the reality of what virtual 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.000 reality was was capable of doing versus what it was 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:27.200 being depicted as doing was totally different. Um personally. I 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:30.760 remember hearing about virtual reality in the early nineties. I 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:33.959 grew up in seventies and eighties, and but I remember 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.960 by the early nineties of a teenager and even one 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:41.000 of the malls here in the Metro Atlanta area had 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:45.400 a small virtual reality game center where you would go in, 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:49.320 stand on a platform, have a fifty pound head mounted 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:53.040 display put down on you. It was actually suspended by 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.560 cables because it was too heavy to put on just kids, 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.679 and then you would uh make yourself film nauseated as 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:05.240 you laid against polygone pterodactyls that flew and looked nothing 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:10.040 like anything that ever really existed. Ever dinosaur adventure, but 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.160 every dinosaur is just a couple of triangles. Yeah, it 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:13.800 was pretty much. That was it. And then you had 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:17.680 a little a little kind of prism looking like gun 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:22.080 that fired perfect cube bullets. Yeah it was. It was 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.720 pretty limited, but it showed what the promise of virtual 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:27.720 virtual reality could be. And I think a lot of 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:32.480 people focused more on the limitations than on the the 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:36.200 actual potential for the technology, and that really set the 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.320 entire industry back. But just as a quick overview of 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:43.040 the actual history, not just our personal history, you know, 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.280 the basic concept is pretty simple. It's the idea of 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:51.360 creating a virtual environment that mimics a physical environment, so 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:55.200 that the person who is in whatever set up you're 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.320 using feels as if they're in a real place, but 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:03.160 it's all virtual representation. So uh, two very important concepts 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.280 with this are immersion, which is your sense of being 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.840 in that space, and interactivity, which is your ability to 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:13.600 manipulate things within that space. So if you don't feel immersion, 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.400 then there's no illusion that you are in this environment 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:18.440 and it all kind of falls apart. And if you 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.400 don't have interaction, then it's like you are in a 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:24.240 an immersive movie, but you have no agency, You have 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.400 no ability to affect the things around you. Even more 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:29.760 than than it's sort of disconnecting when when you don't 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.080 have that one to one ratio of your own movement 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:35.760 and immersion happening, it can be complete disorienting. Oh yeah. 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:38.640 The big issue of VR is when you have that lag, 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.200 it can be what causes when people get really sick 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:43.760 from it. That's a major issue that happens. Oh sure, Yeah. 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:47.479 Latency is a terrible problem. I've I've had that experience 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.280 as well. In fact, I had it with that pterodactyl 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.080 based game, and that was super simple graphics, so there's 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.960 very low latency. There was still enough where it doesn't 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:58.800 take much for humans to pick up on it. We're 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:02.599 talking on the millisecond frame right, like something like sixty milliseconds. 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.000 Anything more than that you can start to kind of 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.039 feel it. It's one of the big challenges of the 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:11.080 Oculus Rift was to bring that latency number down as 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.200 far as possible. But then, you know, I've even used 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.680 the Oculus Rift and while the latency wasn't so bad, 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.120 there was a disconnect in the interface that made me 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.359 feel a little swimmy. UM. And I'll talk about that 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:26.240 a little bit later too. So we've got some interesting 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:31.640 examples of precursors to what we consider the typical virtual 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.320 reality gear. And I love that you pulled these up 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.400 in your research. Uh, going all the way back to 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:43.160 the nineteenth century here. Yeah, we're talking. UM eight. The 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:47.160 wheat Stone stereoscope. A stereoscope technology is a major major 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.240 component to virtual reality. Um. It's still being used, I 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.440 believe in Occulus Rift the current iterations to make that 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:56.239 three D immersive experience. Uh. And so we had these Uh, 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.000 like the wheat Stone stereoscope. It was basically a pair 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.560 of giant or is at forty five degree angles that 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.560 would make a stereoscopic image. Um. And we have this 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.680 sort of going on until we got the home Stereoscope 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.680 in one, which is a handheld version. Uh. And it 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:13.400 looks you can see photos of online. It looks very, 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:16.200 very similar to sort of a steampunk wooden version of 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.760 a virtual boy. Um. It's just it's a little mobile, handheld, 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.560 handheld put it on your face sort of interface. Except 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:25.480 I would imagine I don't know, maybe the headache is 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.920 quite as bad as virtual I sure hope not. Man. 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.120 Did you ever play with one of those? Yeah? And 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.120 it was heinous, right, Although it did introduce the world 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:36.520 to Warrior, which is great. I mean Warrio Mario Tennis 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.600 I think was on there. But it also made your 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.080 eyes bleed. Yeah. No, not not the most pleasant of 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.919 user experiences. Yeah. And stereoscopic effect is is pretty cool 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:49.200 because there's a technological element, but the really important step 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.320 is all done by your brain, because it's it's your 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:56.000 eyes getting too slightly different images and then your brain 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.120 combining that to create the what you perceive as a 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.159 three dimensional base. It's the same sort of principle that 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.120 comes out of three D movies, the idea that you're 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.400 you're getting just slightly different views to kind of mimic 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:11.200 what you would get with parallax. That's where your eyes 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:13.800 converge on a point and you get that sense of depth. 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:19.280 So super interesting. And then nine six you've got the 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:25.160 tell usphere mask. Yeah, this guy more Highlig he created this. 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.160 It's a stereoscopic three D TV with stereoston and wide 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.000 vision display and it's probably the first thing that I've 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.120 found that's similar to the head mounted displays we're kind 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.120 of more used to in looking at Project Morpheus or sorry, 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:41.720 Project Morpheus rather and Oculus rift um. And then uh, 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:43.800 two years later, the same guy makes this thing, the 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:45.920 Sense of Rama, which is an Arcad style three D 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.160 cabinet with a vibrating seat and scent producer um. It 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.520 reminds me of a lot of there is Disney rides. 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.520 That there's an alien Disney ride actually that you would 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.360 sit in this theater and there was three D, but 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.640 they would like you have water splashed on you when 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.200 the alien are crawling around a little like rubber tubes. 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:05.200 It hit your legs. It's that sort of full immersion, 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:07.720 same sort of thing with they have the It's Tough 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:11.280 to Be a Bug movie that's in the Animal Kingdom, 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.000 Disney Animal Kingdom, same sort of stuff where it comes 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:17.200 complete with the three dimensional movie. You get the sense 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:21.040 like when the stink bug does his thing, you get 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:28.200 a nice waft of a suitably stinky but disneyfied stinky smell. Yeah, 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.400 you're hope, you're hopeful that you know that that truro 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:35.000 that your your kid ate is not what's causing the problem. Uh. 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:39.400 And they even had um things under like incorporate in 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.640 the benches you sit in so that when the wasps attack, 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.400 a little thing pokes you in the back, or at 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:47.600 the very very end, when all the lights have gone 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:49.800 down and you haven't been they haven't come up, so 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:53.040 you can get up and walk away. Yet Uh, little 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.840 things directly under the seat, like under your butt move. 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.920 So it's supposed to be all the cockroaches. Yeah, it's 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:06.160 little creepy, but you know it is very immersive, terrifyingly immersive. Right. 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.720 And then we have Ivan Sutherland who created the sketch pad. 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:12.679 So yeah, yeah, I like this. Note you have to 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:16.959 about the precursor to CAD programs, computer assisted design programs, 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:21.840 and our computer aided design depends on who's spelling out 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.800 the acronym. But you know, the graphic user interface or 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:29.000 derived from this as well. Uh, this is one of 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.880 those things that ended up making a huge impact on 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.240 computing in general, not just virtual reality, but really the 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:40.240 way that we interact with our devices today. And it's 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.640 funny because this was in the VR headset he made, 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:45.880 which they called the sort of dominicles because it hung 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.520 from the scene. Of course, because it was so heavy, 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.880 and of course it's a nerdy name as long as 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:55.079 long as you didn't undo the Gordian knot totally okay, 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:58.480 But it's funny because this is and yet this sounds 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:03.600 very very similar to your Pterodactyl adventure set up. Yeah. Yeah, 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:07.280 so the technology it was massive and heavier for a while. Yeah. 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:09.520 I think a lot of these displays too, especially the 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:14.360 early ones you're talking about, probably cathode ray tube technology 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.720 and a cathode ray tube television. It's enormous. I had 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:19.640 to have a space for a vacuum tube in it. 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.800 That's the tube part to create the energy for the 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:26.080 electron gun to fire the electrons that create the images. 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.800 So yeah, you definitely needed to have some assistance there 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:31.800 to to carry that kind of weight. I mean, you know, 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:33.880 I don't I don't know how familiar you are with 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.640 CRT displays. Yeah, well enough. Yeah, if you've ever had 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:39.920 to move one and you think, yes, I want to 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.199 strap this to my face, probably not one of the 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:43.800 first things that occurs to you. I don't have you 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.480 seen my neck? I know, it's kind of like I 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.160 was thinking that, you know that you were just maybe 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.760 a little angry and went a little hulk ish, but 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.439 just in the neck area. The only thing I work 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.400 out of the gym is my neck. That's good. Well, 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.599 you know, it's it's important to concentrate on muscle groups. Yeah, anxactly. 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.640 And then when we get up to nineteen eighties seven, 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:08.240 that's when a guy named Jarn Lanier created, or at 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.440 least as credited for creating, the term virtual reality. There's 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.400 some dispute over whether or not he actually coined it, 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:18.480 but he certainly popularized it. Now he was a computer scientist, 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:20.679 still is a computer scientist, I should say, because he's 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.320 still very much active. But he worked for Atari for 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.280 a while and then Atari, I don't know if you 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.280 know this, Struben, but in n at kind of blew up. 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.400 I've I've I've read. Yeah, I was, I was not alive. 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:35.240 I was there, Reuben, I was there. I've seen things, Ruben. 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:41.400 You can't unsee's eye. When Atari died, uh, you know it, 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:44.360 Actually it was. It was a restructuring and Lanier was 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.200 let go and he co founded a company called VPL Research, 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.480 and then uh he worked there for quite some time. 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.240 He's also done work for Advanced Networking Services as well 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.800 as for Microsoft Research, and he's been involved in tons 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.560 of big technology discussions, not just virtual reality but web 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.360 two point oh, which I think he argued didn't really 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.199 mean anything. I think I would agree with him on that. 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:08.960 I think it was more of a marketing term than 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:13.720 anything technologically. And then Uh, he's also weighed in on 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:17.160 discussions about singularity and futurism. If you think of Ray 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:21.800 kurtzwile as we're all going to be immortal robots, uh 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:23.800 and they're going to take over. He's kind of on 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:27.200 the opposite end of the spectrum, which is interesting because 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:29.880 I see a lot of coverage on the kurtswild side 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.720 and very little on the skeptical, like, wait a minute, 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:36.880 do you really think we're all gonna be robots? We 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:38.840 all like a fairy tale. I think we want to 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.080 that pine, this skuy dream of put my brain in 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.800 our robot body. Get that molder I want to believe, 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.280 poster on our on our walls. Put my brain in 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:50.880 a molder body. You know, I'll sign me up. That 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.280 is a huge upgrade from where I am right now. 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:56.520 But Lenar worked with Tom Zimmerman, who was the guy 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.800 who invented the data glove. Uh, the data glove being 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:04.960 the foundation for things like the Nintendo Power Glove. The 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.560 data glove was better, but yeah, he designed the data glove. 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.200 And then so Laniar and Zimmerman work together to create 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.320 some of the early examples of the typical VR hardware 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:17.080 that we see today, like the like the interfaces, not 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.080 just the head meld displays, which, as you have you 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.559 as you have pointed out, predate this. So Lanier and 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.760 Zimmerman work together on creating a lot of the hardware 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.600 that we associate with virtual reality, not just head meld displays, 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.920 which obviously pre date their work, but also some of 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.160 the other interfaces like how do you actually move around 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.679 and interact with this virtual environment. Because it's one thing 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.040 to see it, I mean a head meld display where 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.840 it tracks the movement of your head so that your 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:48.760 perspective changes as you as you look around. That's one thing, 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.120 but it's still that doesn't still give you the ability 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.839 to actually do anything in that space. Certainly, Like we 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.240 previously mentioned that one to one ratio, it's one thing 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.520 to like to see with your head and move around, 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:03.640 you know, with your eyes um, but to actually to 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.280 try to mimic walking if it's an omnidirectional try to 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.560 mill um holding whatever you're holding in your hands for 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.360 this and we so we see more and more interfaces 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:13.880 being added on. This is something we see in the 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.640 Oculus Rift is sort of just one ingredient in the 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.560 full immersion that they're trying to tell you one exactly. Yeah, 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:21.800 and that's is that's one of the biggest challenges. I 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:25.160 think we'll talk about some of the challenges of VR, 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:29.080 but interfaces alone, like how do you get an interface 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.640 that is transparent enough, not not physically, but transparent enough 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:37.920 where you're having a natural experience in this unnatural virtual 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.560 environment so that it fades way. The last thing you 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:44.880 want is for the user to be hyper aware of 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.400 the interface. You want that to fade out. So let's 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.960 talk about some of the gears. So we've already mentioned displays. 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:53.720 Headmond display is probably the most popular, although not the 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.720 only one. There are some displays that are an entire 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.680 room where things are projected onto walls or uh like 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.760 a sphere where it's projected on the inside of the 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:05.800 sphere and you sit down in the middle. So that 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.960 like like a lot of aircraft simulation is done in 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.000 this sort of style. But the one that we're mostly 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.640 familiar with, especially if you're talking about a consumer level, 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:17.680 is heading out a displace because most of us can't 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.520 convert room in our house to VR hardware. That's my 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:25.920 first question for a real tear is there, Yeah, there 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:28.360 can't be any windows, and no windows. Is gonna be 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.920 fully internal room, a perfect sphere if possible? Yeah, that 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.160 would be. That would be ideal you crafted outside of 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.920 zero g exactly. If it's completely out, if it's out 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:38.880 of true even by a little bit, it's going to 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.360 completely throw off my game of Skyrim. And I really 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.400 I'm really close to the end. I pull my laser 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.680 micrometer out to make sure this thing is perfect. Yeah, yeah, 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:50.080 that might be a little bit um well excessive, I 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:54.880 think would say. Yeah. So, the latest version of the 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.560 Oculus Rift developer kit, you know, because this still has 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.000 of the recording of this podcast, isn't a consumer product, 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.680 still in the developer phase, but the latest version has 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:08.800 tracking dots on it which an external camera can can track, 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.200 and it will be able to measure the different distances 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:14.880 between the different points and thus be able to tell 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.920 what orientation the mask is on. So not only do 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.480 you have the tracking technology built into the actual device 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:26.040 where it's got accelerometers and that kind of thing to 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.880 tell whether or not you're looking left, right, up or down, 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.760 it can actually tell the angle. So, for example, if 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:35.200 I wanted if I'm looking at a virtual table in 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.240 front of me and I want to see if someone 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.000 has written something on the underside of the table, I 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:43.040 can bend down and look up and it was able 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.720 to track that change an angle, so I can see 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.520 the underside of the table in the virtual world, which 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:50.400 is pretty cool. It's another one of those ways of 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:53.880 adding a level of immersion. Oculus has been really careful 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.840 to say this may not be in the final consumer version. 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.560 You know, you might not have this external tracking element 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.640 because it does require even more hardware. You have to 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.480 have that webcam to all the bust computers I think 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.800 are made with them now. Yeah, but it's it's one 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.800 of those things where it really does add that extra 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.960 element of interaction. Well, looking under tables is if you're 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:16.800 in a Hobo simulator, you've got to be able to 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.440 look under furniture to see Hobo marks to what's going on. 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.520 That's right, it's a big one one. Yeah, I can 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:24.919 I can imagine anything, well, anything where you're having to 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:28.200 look around a corner, like especially like survival horror games. 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.720 I mean, this will be so useful if you have 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:34.919 the guts to play a survival horror game that fully 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:39.800 immerses you. I'm thinking of PT the playable trailer. Yeah, yeah, 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.320 can you imagine if that were an innoculous riff situation 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.240 you probably you would probably never stop screaming. It's it was, 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:47.880 it was. I'm not easily scared by by any sort 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.560 of media. Usually that game was terrifying, So I can't 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:52.840 imagine like being you can't like not being able to 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:54.960 escape it, right, Yeah, you can't look away from the 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:56.919 screen because the screen is directly in front of your 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.080 eyes no matter where you look. Yeah, exactly, especially if 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.359 you have three dimensional sound and and uh, really good 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:07.120 headphones as well. That's what's really going to create that 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.280 that incredible experience that is probably gonna be unforgettable, and 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:13.040 not necessarily in a good way. It's interesting. So again 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:14.760 we're talking about this sort of this ecosystem you have 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.680 to build around not just the headset, but so the 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.280 the externally amounted camera. So like this Rift, they have 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:24.240 those points on the front to kind of to inform 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:26.440 the environment more of what angles you're looking at, etcetera. 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:28.919 A thing they've run into is that they don't have 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.040 a way to track the back of the head. Currently, 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.600 not a hard thing to fix. Um the Project Morpheus, 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:39.760 which is Sony's thing, because they're using um light instead 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:41.959 of these little marks, they're using led lights on the 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.280 front and the back of the set. UM. It's actually 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:46.440 a way too. If you turn around, the camera knows 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:48.920 that you're fully turned around, not just your vision, but 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.240 I'll track the back of your head. There's there's a 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.640 big deal because when I was playing with the Oculus 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:58.680 Rift just a week ago. UM, one of the big 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:00.760 issues I ran into is that it yeah, I could 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:02.960 turn my head to the left, but if I wanted 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:07.800 to actually change the orientation of the character character's body, 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.240 I had to use a controller to turn the character 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.280 to the left, which would then end up creating that 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.800 disconnect I was talking about, because that's not the way 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.840 we normally interact with our environments, right. We don't normally 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.159 hold a controller in our hands and say, well, I 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:23.680 need to go to the left now, and then push 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:28.040 a thumbstick over. So it's very disorienting. Something where it 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.480 can detect exactly where you are, you know, whether in 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:36.480 a full degree kind of way, UH could potentially allow 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:40.879 you to actually change that orientation in the game without 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:42.760 having to use a controller to do it. So if 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.600 I turned to the left, my character actively turns to 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.240 the left. You have to balance that out because do 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.480 you automatically make it so that the character is moving 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:53.280 in the direction you're looking, or do you want to 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:55.120 have it so that you can look to the left 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:57.720 but still keep running forward for example, And that's one 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.280 of the big things in VR I know for first 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.479 person shooter tap games was the ability to shoot somewhere 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.040 you were not looking, because up until now it's always 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.639 been contained to your vision either the center of the 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:10.919 screen like most fps is work or I want to 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:14.320 say like they're like the old Golden Eye actually let 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.919 you free range your cursor around the screen. Um, but 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:20.160 the ability to there's actually a great video on YouTube 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:22.320 of guy who's using knock this rift with a couple 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.000 of purples uh in Half Life two in a shooting 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.520 range and he's doing all sorts of crazy stuff behind 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.040 the back and over the over the head. I saw 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:33.880 one of those where they were using not the Oculus rift, 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:38.439 but a similar head mounted display and a vest, and 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.040 the vest was what was tracking all the body motions. 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:44.760 So it actually had sensors that went out to the 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:48.320 arms and too the legs. So if you squatted, the 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:50.520 character would squat in the video game. If you put 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.000 your hand behind your back, your character would put his 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.159 hand or her hand behind his or her back. And 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:59.000 so it was one of those things that got around 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.439 that by just take can a totally different approach to 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.119 the hardware. Of course, then you get into the question 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.720 of how expensive would it be to produce a full 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.760 suit and would people really want to have something like that. 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:15.639 You know, again, you'd be really aware of that interface, 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:17.960 at least at first. Maybe after a while it fades away. 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:20.440 But it's one of those things where again you don't 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:24.320