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Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with text up from dot

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Speaker 1: com Ever, everyone, and welcome to tex Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland,

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Speaker 1: and today I have a special guest in the studio

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Speaker 1: with me, Ruben Medina. How are you, Ruben. I'm good,

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Speaker 1: I'm here. I'm live in the studio. Yeah. Ruben is

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Speaker 1: a is a friend of mine. He's a local performer

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Speaker 1: here in Atlanta and improvisational genius now expectations. He's an

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Speaker 1: improvisational performer with moments of genius. And Rubens also written

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Speaker 1: for video game outlets that we often have conversations online

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Speaker 1: just about like issues in the video game world. This

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Speaker 1: is absolutely true. We'll just so there and say like,

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Speaker 1: oh man, it's crazy in it, and then uh, I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't believe that Polygon gave that a six point

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Speaker 1: five when clearly was a seven point four at least,

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Speaker 1: what's that about it? Together game journalists? But I let

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Speaker 1: I wanted Reuben to come onto the show, and I

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Speaker 1: gave him, of course, the opportunity to choose whatever topic

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Speaker 1: he wanted to talk about, and uh, you really want

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Speaker 1: to talk about virtual reality? Yeah? To escape my own

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Speaker 1: perilous and terrible life, I can totally understand that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we has been the promise of virtual reality ever since

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Speaker 1: we first heard the term. Do you remember, you know,

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Speaker 1: approximately when you first heard about virtual reality? Geez um,

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Speaker 1: So I guess for reference, like I'm twenty eight, so

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Speaker 1: one of the first times I can I don't know,

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Speaker 1: probably like lawnmower Man or Johnny Demonic is one of

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Speaker 1: the first pop culture references I really saw to it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: lawnmower Man was like, that was like the thing that

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Speaker 1: totally destroyed virtual reality in a way because the well

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Speaker 1: one Klant's lawnmar Man. It's terrible movie, but too well hey, no,

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Speaker 1: completely right now, It's awesome in its own way. It's

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Speaker 1: just not well made. It's still entertaining, just not the

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Speaker 1: way it was necessarily in ended to be in relative

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Speaker 1: to Johnny Nemonic, I mean that's true. We're we're talking,

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Speaker 1: you know, in comparison, but iced tea. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a tough competition any way you slice it.

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Speaker 1: But the issue, and we'll talk about this more in

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Speaker 1: a little bit, was that the reality of what virtual

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Speaker 1: reality was was capable of doing versus what it was

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Speaker 1: being depicted as doing was totally different. Um personally. I

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Speaker 1: remember hearing about virtual reality in the early nineties. I

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Speaker 1: grew up in seventies and eighties, and but I remember

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Speaker 1: by the early nineties of a teenager and even one

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Speaker 1: of the malls here in the Metro Atlanta area had

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Speaker 1: a small virtual reality game center where you would go in,

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Speaker 1: stand on a platform, have a fifty pound head mounted

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Speaker 1: display put down on you. It was actually suspended by

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Speaker 1: cables because it was too heavy to put on just kids,

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Speaker 1: and then you would uh make yourself film nauseated as

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Speaker 1: you laid against polygone pterodactyls that flew and looked nothing

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Speaker 1: like anything that ever really existed. Ever dinosaur adventure, but

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Speaker 1: every dinosaur is just a couple of triangles. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was pretty much. That was it. And then you had

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Speaker 1: a little a little kind of prism looking like gun

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Speaker 1: that fired perfect cube bullets. Yeah it was. It was

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Speaker 1: pretty limited, but it showed what the promise of virtual

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Speaker 1: virtual reality could be. And I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: people focused more on the limitations than on the the

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Speaker 1: actual potential for the technology, and that really set the

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Speaker 1: entire industry back. But just as a quick overview of

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Speaker 1: the actual history, not just our personal history, you know,

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Speaker 1: the basic concept is pretty simple. It's the idea of

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Speaker 1: creating a virtual environment that mimics a physical environment, so

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Speaker 1: that the person who is in whatever set up you're

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Speaker 1: using feels as if they're in a real place, but

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Speaker 1: it's all virtual representation. So uh, two very important concepts

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Speaker 1: with this are immersion, which is your sense of being

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Speaker 1: in that space, and interactivity, which is your ability to

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Speaker 1: manipulate things within that space. So if you don't feel immersion,

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Speaker 1: then there's no illusion that you are in this environment

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Speaker 1: and it all kind of falls apart. And if you

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Speaker 1: don't have interaction, then it's like you are in a

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Speaker 1: an immersive movie, but you have no agency, You have

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Speaker 1: no ability to affect the things around you. Even more

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Speaker 1: than than it's sort of disconnecting when when you don't

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Speaker 1: have that one to one ratio of your own movement

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Speaker 1: and immersion happening, it can be complete disorienting. Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: The big issue of VR is when you have that lag,

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Speaker 1: it can be what causes when people get really sick

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Speaker 1: from it. That's a major issue that happens. Oh sure, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Latency is a terrible problem. I've I've had that experience

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Speaker 1: as well. In fact, I had it with that pterodactyl

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Speaker 1: based game, and that was super simple graphics, so there's

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Speaker 1: very low latency. There was still enough where it doesn't

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Speaker 1: take much for humans to pick up on it. We're

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Speaker 1: talking on the millisecond frame right, like something like sixty milliseconds.

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Speaker 1: Anything more than that you can start to kind of

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Speaker 1: feel it. It's one of the big challenges of the

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Speaker 1: Oculus Rift was to bring that latency number down as

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Speaker 1: far as possible. But then, you know, I've even used

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Speaker 1: the Oculus Rift and while the latency wasn't so bad,

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Speaker 1: there was a disconnect in the interface that made me

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Speaker 1: feel a little swimmy. UM. And I'll talk about that

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Speaker 1: a little bit later too. So we've got some interesting

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Speaker 1: examples of precursors to what we consider the typical virtual

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Speaker 1: reality gear. And I love that you pulled these up

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Speaker 1: in your research. Uh, going all the way back to

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth century here. Yeah, we're talking. UM eight. The

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Speaker 1: wheat Stone stereoscope. A stereoscope technology is a major major

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Speaker 1: component to virtual reality. Um. It's still being used, I

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Speaker 1: believe in Occulus Rift the current iterations to make that

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Speaker 1: three D immersive experience. Uh. And so we had these Uh,

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Speaker 1: like the wheat Stone stereoscope. It was basically a pair

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Speaker 1: of giant or is at forty five degree angles that

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Speaker 1: would make a stereoscopic image. Um. And we have this

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Speaker 1: sort of going on until we got the home Stereoscope

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Speaker 1: in one, which is a handheld version. Uh. And it

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Speaker 1: looks you can see photos of online. It looks very,

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Speaker 1: very similar to sort of a steampunk wooden version of

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Speaker 1: a virtual boy. Um. It's just it's a little mobile, handheld,

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Speaker 1: handheld put it on your face sort of interface. Except

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Speaker 1: I would imagine I don't know, maybe the headache is

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Speaker 1: quite as bad as virtual I sure hope not. Man.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever play with one of those? Yeah? And

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Speaker 1: it was heinous, right, Although it did introduce the world

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Speaker 1: to Warrior, which is great. I mean Warrio Mario Tennis

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Speaker 1: I think was on there. But it also made your

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Speaker 1: eyes bleed. Yeah. No, not not the most pleasant of

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Speaker 1: user experiences. Yeah. And stereoscopic effect is is pretty cool

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Speaker 1: because there's a technological element, but the really important step

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Speaker 1: is all done by your brain, because it's it's your

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Speaker 1: eyes getting too slightly different images and then your brain

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Speaker 1: combining that to create the what you perceive as a

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Speaker 1: three dimensional base. It's the same sort of principle that

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Speaker 1: comes out of three D movies, the idea that you're

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Speaker 1: you're getting just slightly different views to kind of mimic

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Speaker 1: what you would get with parallax. That's where your eyes

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Speaker 1: converge on a point and you get that sense of depth.

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Speaker 1: So super interesting. And then nine six you've got the

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Speaker 1: tell usphere mask. Yeah, this guy more Highlig he created this.

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Speaker 1: It's a stereoscopic three D TV with stereoston and wide

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Speaker 1: vision display and it's probably the first thing that I've

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Speaker 1: found that's similar to the head mounted displays we're kind

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Speaker 1: of more used to in looking at Project Morpheus or sorry,

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Speaker 1: Project Morpheus rather and Oculus rift um. And then uh,

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Speaker 1: two years later, the same guy makes this thing, the

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Speaker 1: Sense of Rama, which is an Arcad style three D

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Speaker 1: cabinet with a vibrating seat and scent producer um. It

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Speaker 1: reminds me of a lot of there is Disney rides.

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Speaker 1: That there's an alien Disney ride actually that you would

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Speaker 1: sit in this theater and there was three D, but

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Speaker 1: they would like you have water splashed on you when

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Speaker 1: the alien are crawling around a little like rubber tubes.

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Speaker 1: It hit your legs. It's that sort of full immersion,

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Speaker 1: same sort of thing with they have the It's Tough

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Speaker 1: to Be a Bug movie that's in the Animal Kingdom,

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Speaker 1: Disney Animal Kingdom, same sort of stuff where it comes

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Speaker 1: complete with the three dimensional movie. You get the sense

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Speaker 1: like when the stink bug does his thing, you get

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Speaker 1: a nice waft of a suitably stinky but disneyfied stinky smell. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're hope, you're hopeful that you know that that truro

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Speaker 1: that your your kid ate is not what's causing the problem. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And they even had um things under like incorporate in

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Speaker 1: the benches you sit in so that when the wasps attack,

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Speaker 1: a little thing pokes you in the back, or at

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Speaker 1: the very very end, when all the lights have gone

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Speaker 1: down and you haven't been they haven't come up, so

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Speaker 1: you can get up and walk away. Yet Uh, little

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Speaker 1: things directly under the seat, like under your butt move.

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Speaker 1: So it's supposed to be all the cockroaches. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: little creepy, but you know it is very immersive, terrifyingly immersive. Right.

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Speaker 1: And then we have Ivan Sutherland who created the sketch pad.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I like this. Note you have to

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Speaker 1: about the precursor to CAD programs, computer assisted design programs,

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Speaker 1: and our computer aided design depends on who's spelling out

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Speaker 1: the acronym. But you know, the graphic user interface or

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Speaker 1: derived from this as well. Uh, this is one of

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Speaker 1: those things that ended up making a huge impact on

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Speaker 1: computing in general, not just virtual reality, but really the

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Speaker 1: way that we interact with our devices today. And it's

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Speaker 1: funny because this was in the VR headset he made,

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Speaker 1: which they called the sort of dominicles because it hung

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Speaker 1: from the scene. Of course, because it was so heavy,

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Speaker 1: and of course it's a nerdy name as long as

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Speaker 1: long as you didn't undo the Gordian knot totally okay,

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Speaker 1: But it's funny because this is and yet this sounds

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Speaker 1: very very similar to your Pterodactyl adventure set up. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so the technology it was massive and heavier for a while. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of these displays too, especially the

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Speaker 1: early ones you're talking about, probably cathode ray tube technology

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Speaker 1: and a cathode ray tube television. It's enormous. I had

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Speaker 1: to have a space for a vacuum tube in it.

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Speaker 1: That's the tube part to create the energy for the

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Speaker 1: electron gun to fire the electrons that create the images.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, you definitely needed to have some assistance there

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Speaker 1: to to carry that kind of weight. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't know how familiar you are with

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Speaker 1: CRT displays. Yeah, well enough. Yeah, if you've ever had

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Speaker 1: to move one and you think, yes, I want to

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Speaker 1: strap this to my face, probably not one of the

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Speaker 1: first things that occurs to you. I don't have you

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Speaker 1: seen my neck? I know, it's kind of like I

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Speaker 1: was thinking that, you know that you were just maybe

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Speaker 1: a little angry and went a little hulk ish, but

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Speaker 1: just in the neck area. The only thing I work

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Speaker 1: out of the gym is my neck. That's good. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's important to concentrate on muscle groups. Yeah, anxactly.

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Speaker 1: And then when we get up to nineteen eighties seven,

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Speaker 1: that's when a guy named Jarn Lanier created, or at

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Speaker 1: least as credited for creating, the term virtual reality. There's

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Speaker 1: some dispute over whether or not he actually coined it,

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Speaker 1: but he certainly popularized it. Now he was a computer scientist,

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Speaker 1: still is a computer scientist, I should say, because he's

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Speaker 1: still very much active. But he worked for Atari for

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Speaker 1: a while and then Atari, I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: know this, Struben, but in n at kind of blew up.

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Speaker 1: I've I've I've read. Yeah, I was, I was not alive.

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Speaker 1: I was there, Reuben, I was there. I've seen things, Ruben.

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Speaker 1: You can't unsee's eye. When Atari died, uh, you know it,

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Speaker 1: Actually it was. It was a restructuring and Lanier was

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Speaker 1: let go and he co founded a company called VPL Research,

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Speaker 1: and then uh he worked there for quite some time.

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Speaker 1: He's also done work for Advanced Networking Services as well

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Speaker 1: as for Microsoft Research, and he's been involved in tons

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Speaker 1: of big technology discussions, not just virtual reality but web

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Speaker 1: two point oh, which I think he argued didn't really

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Speaker 1: mean anything. I think I would agree with him on that.

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Speaker 1: I think it was more of a marketing term than

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Speaker 1: anything technologically. And then Uh, he's also weighed in on

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Speaker 1: discussions about singularity and futurism. If you think of Ray

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Speaker 1: kurtzwile as we're all going to be immortal robots, uh

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Speaker 1: and they're going to take over. He's kind of on

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Speaker 1: the opposite end of the spectrum, which is interesting because

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Speaker 1: I see a lot of coverage on the kurtswild side

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Speaker 1: and very little on the skeptical, like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: do you really think we're all gonna be robots? We

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Speaker 1: all like a fairy tale. I think we want to

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Speaker 1: that pine, this skuy dream of put my brain in

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Speaker 1: our robot body. Get that molder I want to believe,

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Speaker 1: poster on our on our walls. Put my brain in

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Speaker 1: a molder body. You know, I'll sign me up. That

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Speaker 1: is a huge upgrade from where I am right now.

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Speaker 1: But Lenar worked with Tom Zimmerman, who was the guy

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Speaker 1: who invented the data glove. Uh, the data glove being

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Speaker 1: the foundation for things like the Nintendo Power Glove. The

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Speaker 1: data glove was better, but yeah, he designed the data glove.

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Speaker 1: And then so Laniar and Zimmerman work together to create

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Speaker 1: some of the early examples of the typical VR hardware

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Speaker 1: that we see today, like the like the interfaces, not

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Speaker 1: just the head meld displays, which, as you have you

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Speaker 1: as you have pointed out, predate this. So Lanier and

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Speaker 1: Zimmerman work together on creating a lot of the hardware

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Speaker 1: that we associate with virtual reality, not just head meld displays,

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Speaker 1: which obviously pre date their work, but also some of

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Speaker 1: the other interfaces like how do you actually move around

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Speaker 1: and interact with this virtual environment. Because it's one thing

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Speaker 1: to see it, I mean a head meld display where

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Speaker 1: it tracks the movement of your head so that your

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Speaker 1: perspective changes as you as you look around. That's one thing,

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Speaker 1: but it's still that doesn't still give you the ability

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Speaker 1: to actually do anything in that space. Certainly, Like we

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Speaker 1: previously mentioned that one to one ratio, it's one thing

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Speaker 1: to like to see with your head and move around,

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Speaker 1: you know, with your eyes um, but to actually to

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Speaker 1: try to mimic walking if it's an omnidirectional try to

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Speaker 1: mill um holding whatever you're holding in your hands for

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Speaker 1: this and we so we see more and more interfaces

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Speaker 1: being added on. This is something we see in the

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Speaker 1: Oculus Rift is sort of just one ingredient in the

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Speaker 1: full immersion that they're trying to tell you one exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's is that's one of the biggest challenges. I

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Speaker 1: think we'll talk about some of the challenges of VR,

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Speaker 1: but interfaces alone, like how do you get an interface

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Speaker 1: that is transparent enough, not not physically, but transparent enough

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Speaker 1: where you're having a natural experience in this unnatural virtual

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Speaker 1: environment so that it fades way. The last thing you

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Speaker 1: want is for the user to be hyper aware of

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Speaker 1: the interface. You want that to fade out. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about some of the gears. So we've already mentioned displays.

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Speaker 1: Headmond display is probably the most popular, although not the

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Speaker 1: only one. There are some displays that are an entire

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Speaker 1: room where things are projected onto walls or uh like

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Speaker 1: a sphere where it's projected on the inside of the

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Speaker 1: sphere and you sit down in the middle. So that

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Speaker 1: like like a lot of aircraft simulation is done in

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Speaker 1: this sort of style. But the one that we're mostly

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Speaker 1: familiar with, especially if you're talking about a consumer level,

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Speaker 1: is heading out a displace because most of us can't

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Speaker 1: convert room in our house to VR hardware. That's my

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Speaker 1: first question for a real tear is there, Yeah, there

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Speaker 1: can't be any windows, and no windows. Is gonna be

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Speaker 1: fully internal room, a perfect sphere if possible? Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: would be. That would be ideal you crafted outside of

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Speaker 1: zero g exactly. If it's completely out, if it's out

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Speaker 1: of true even by a little bit, it's going to

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Speaker 1: completely throw off my game of Skyrim. And I really

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Speaker 1: I'm really close to the end. I pull my laser

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Speaker 1: micrometer out to make sure this thing is perfect. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that might be a little bit um well excessive, I

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Speaker 1: think would say. Yeah. So, the latest version of the

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Speaker 1: Oculus Rift developer kit, you know, because this still has

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Speaker 1: of the recording of this podcast, isn't a consumer product,

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Speaker 1: still in the developer phase, but the latest version has

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Speaker 1: tracking dots on it which an external camera can can track,

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Speaker 1: and it will be able to measure the different distances

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Speaker 1: between the different points and thus be able to tell

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Speaker 1: what orientation the mask is on. So not only do

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Speaker 1: you have the tracking technology built into the actual device

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Speaker 1: where it's got accelerometers and that kind of thing to

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Speaker 1: tell whether or not you're looking left, right, up or down,

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Speaker 1: it can actually tell the angle. So, for example, if

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Speaker 1: I wanted if I'm looking at a virtual table in

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Speaker 1: front of me and I want to see if someone

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Speaker 1: has written something on the underside of the table, I

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Speaker 1: can bend down and look up and it was able

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Speaker 1: to track that change an angle, so I can see

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Speaker 1: the underside of the table in the virtual world, which

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Speaker 1: is pretty cool. It's another one of those ways of

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Speaker 1: adding a level of immersion. Oculus has been really careful

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Speaker 1: to say this may not be in the final consumer version.

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Speaker 1: You know, you might not have this external tracking element

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Speaker 1: because it does require even more hardware. You have to

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Speaker 1: have that webcam to all the bust computers I think

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Speaker 1: are made with them now. Yeah, but it's it's one

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Speaker 1: of those things where it really does add that extra

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Speaker 1: element of interaction. Well, looking under tables is if you're

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Speaker 1: in a Hobo simulator, you've got to be able to

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Speaker 1: look under furniture to see Hobo marks to what's going on.

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Speaker 1: That's right, it's a big one one. Yeah, I can

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Speaker 1: I can imagine anything, well, anything where you're having to

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Speaker 1: look around a corner, like especially like survival horror games.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this will be so useful if you have

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Speaker 1: the guts to play a survival horror game that fully

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Speaker 1: immerses you. I'm thinking of PT the playable trailer. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: can you imagine if that were an innoculous riff situation

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Speaker 1: you probably you would probably never stop screaming. It's it was,

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Speaker 1: it was. I'm not easily scared by by any sort

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Speaker 1: of media. Usually that game was terrifying, So I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine like being you can't like not being able to

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Speaker 1: escape it, right, Yeah, you can't look away from the

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Speaker 1: screen because the screen is directly in front of your

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Speaker 1: eyes no matter where you look. Yeah, exactly, especially if

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Speaker 1: you have three dimensional sound and and uh, really good

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Speaker 1: headphones as well. That's what's really going to create that

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Speaker 1: that incredible experience that is probably gonna be unforgettable, and

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Speaker 1: not necessarily in a good way. It's interesting. So again

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Speaker 1: we're talking about this sort of this ecosystem you have

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Speaker 1: to build around not just the headset, but so the

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Speaker 1: the externally amounted camera. So like this Rift, they have

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Speaker 1: those points on the front to kind of to inform

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Speaker 1: the environment more of what angles you're looking at, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: A thing they've run into is that they don't have

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Speaker 1: a way to track the back of the head. Currently,

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Speaker 1: not a hard thing to fix. Um the Project Morpheus,

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Speaker 1: which is Sony's thing, because they're using um light instead

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Speaker 1: of these little marks, they're using led lights on the

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Speaker 1: front and the back of the set. UM. It's actually

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Speaker 1: a way too. If you turn around, the camera knows

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Speaker 1: that you're fully turned around, not just your vision, but

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Speaker 1: I'll track the back of your head. There's there's a

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Speaker 1: big deal because when I was playing with the Oculus

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Speaker 1: Rift just a week ago. UM, one of the big

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Speaker 1: issues I ran into is that it yeah, I could

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Speaker 1: turn my head to the left, but if I wanted

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Speaker 1: to actually change the orientation of the character character's body,

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Speaker 1: I had to use a controller to turn the character

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Speaker 1: to the left, which would then end up creating that

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Speaker 1: disconnect I was talking about, because that's not the way

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Speaker 1: we normally interact with our environments, right. We don't normally

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Speaker 1: hold a controller in our hands and say, well, I

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Speaker 1: need to go to the left now, and then push

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Speaker 1: a thumbstick over. So it's very disorienting. Something where it

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Speaker 1: can detect exactly where you are, you know, whether in

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Speaker 1: a full degree kind of way, UH could potentially allow

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Speaker 1: you to actually change that orientation in the game without

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Speaker 1: having to use a controller to do it. So if

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Speaker 1: I turned to the left, my character actively turns to

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Speaker 1: the left. You have to balance that out because do

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Speaker 1: you automatically make it so that the character is moving

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Speaker 1: in the direction you're looking, or do you want to

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Speaker 1: have it so that you can look to the left

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Speaker 1: but still keep running forward for example, And that's one

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Speaker 1: of the big things in VR I know for first

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Speaker 1: person shooter tap games was the ability to shoot somewhere

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Speaker 1: you were not looking, because up until now it's always

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Speaker 1: been contained to your vision either the center of the

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Speaker 1: screen like most fps is work or I want to

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Speaker 1: say like they're like the old Golden Eye actually let

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Speaker 1: you free range your cursor around the screen. Um, but

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Speaker 1: the ability to there's actually a great video on YouTube

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Speaker 1: of guy who's using knock this rift with a couple

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Speaker 1: of purples uh in Half Life two in a shooting

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Speaker 1: range and he's doing all sorts of crazy stuff behind

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Speaker 1: the back and over the over the head. I saw

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Speaker 1: one of those where they were using not the Oculus rift,

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Speaker 1: but a similar head mounted display and a vest, and

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Speaker 1: the vest was what was tracking all the body motions.

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Speaker 1: So it actually had sensors that went out to the

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Speaker 1: arms and too the legs. So if you squatted, the

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Speaker 1: character would squat in the video game. If you put

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Speaker 1: your hand behind your back, your character would put his

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Speaker 1: hand or her hand behind his or her back. And

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Speaker 1: so it was one of those things that got around

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Speaker 1: that by just take can a totally different approach to

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Speaker 1: the hardware. Of course, then you get into the question

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Speaker 1: of how expensive would it be to produce a full

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Speaker 1: suit and would people really want to have something like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, again, you'd be really aware of that interface,

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Speaker 1: at least at first. Maybe after a while it fades away.

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Speaker 1: But it's one of those things where again you don't

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Speaker 1: want the player to be too too aware of what's

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Speaker 1: going on on a technical level, because then then they're

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Speaker 1: thinking about that and so the experience that they're supposed

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Speaker 1: to have. And I think that that's sort of the

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Speaker 1: ultimate question that comes in with mass commercial acceptance of

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Speaker 1: VR is you know, ideally, if you wanted to get

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Speaker 1: some sort of like motion graph motion graphics set up

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Speaker 1: like mo capping. Uh, you know, I would imagine something

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Speaker 1: along those lines. Some sort of set up like that

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Speaker 1: would be ideal. The whole array of cameras you're covered

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Speaker 1: in little balls that say exactly where you are. Um,

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Speaker 1: but obviously not price effective. I mean, you could maybe

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Speaker 1: have an amusement park where that's something people can go

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Speaker 1: and do as part of the amount. Man, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: pay money for that. Yeah, that's all it was for

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Speaker 1: a little bit. Sure, I'd be jumped right on that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm amazed actually that that's not something you

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Speaker 1: see it's a Disney Hollywood studios where you know, that's

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Speaker 1: that's what that that the impart is all about, is

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Speaker 1: about the production of film and television and all the

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Speaker 1: different stuff that goes into it. Um, maybe one day

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Speaker 1: we'll see that. I can't imagine that. It would be

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Speaker 1: a really slow loading kind of attraction. The wait time

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Speaker 1: for this is four hours and there are three people

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Speaker 1: ahead of you in line, like four days based on

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Speaker 1: ego to Disney the simmer for maybe maybe you can

427
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: fast pass it well other things, Like we mentioned audio,

428
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: that's another really big element in immersion, right if you

429
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 1: are looking at something, if something's kind of on the

430
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: right side of the peripheral of your vision, but you're

431
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 1: hearing stuff from the left, that's really disorienting, UM, because

432
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: first you think, oh, well, whatever that is, there's it's

433
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: brother is right next to me. But then you look

434
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 1: and there's nothing there. So you really have to have

435
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,719
Speaker 1: very good sound design and sound orientation as well. And

436
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: there are a lot of cool ways of doing that,

437
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: like binaural microphones which mimic the way sound goes into

438
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 1: the human head. Yeah, I experienced that with UM. We

439
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: were talking about SMR, which you just did the podcast on.

440
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: I listened to it at work and that pretty good

441
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 1: headphones there, and I was just like, oh, this is delightful. Yeah, yeah,

442
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 1: having the sound of someone slowly walking around you while

443
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: talking and if you close your eyes, it's like you're there.

444
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: In fact, there are a lot of a s MR

445
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 1: videos that are about things like a like a visit

446
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,479
Speaker 1: to the barbershop. That's a really popular one. And you know,

447
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: I don't have hair anymore, but I remember when I do,

448
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: and and so so I there was. There's there's a

449
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: lot where it's like the sound of scissors cutting near you,

450
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 1: and it's amazing how immersive this is. And that's only

451
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 1: one sense. If you close your eyes, it's as if

452
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 1: you were there, to the point where you can almost

453
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: imagine feeling it, even though there's nothing physically touching you

454
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 1: up from your headphones. But it's amazing how convincing that experiences.

455
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,239
Speaker 1: So sound is really important, so you need to make

456
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: sure that that is is well done, just as well

457
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: done as the graphics, if not more so, I think.

458
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,159
Speaker 1: Um As for the interface, that's the other issue we

459
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: were talking about. How do you let the person explore

460
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: that virtual environment. Is it a controller, is it a treadmill?

461
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: We talked about there there are omnidirectional treadmills out there

462
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: that can allow you to actually turn and run and

463
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: so that way you're not limited to just forward or backward.

464
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: I've never tried one. I'm curious about things like momentum

465
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,959
Speaker 1: and inertia and if you if you run in one

466
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: direction and then you suddenly need to turn to another one,

467
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 1: does it keep going so that you're stumbling sideways as

468
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: you're trying to move to a different direction. Or I

469
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: have seen one that looks like, uh, kind of like

470
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 1: almost like a walk. It's it's just you know what

471
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: I'm talking about right on the teflon, sir fist. Yeah,

472
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: it's meant to reduce friction to a minimum so that

473
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: you can just run as if you know, you can

474
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 1: do an all outsprint on this thing. I've seen it.

475
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: I don't trust myself on it. I just for that

476
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: when I imagine like missing a step and then suddenly

477
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: just doing a whoopsie daisy, you know, catapulting myself into

478
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: the air as I fall down and then immediately slide

479
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: up through the other side. But it's an interesting approach

480
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: to a difficult problem. It's certainly since the most commercially

481
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: viable version of that that I've seen, um and and

482
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: they they've built in a bunch of things like stabilize

483
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: yourself at the waist and all this stuff. But again, like, yeah,

484
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: the question is just like basic momentum, like when you're

485
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 1: when you see a runner, like a football runner um

486
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: that they called football they they're called football runners like that.

487
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure there's at least seventeen football runners ut

488
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: per side. And then, given you're asking the wrong guy,

489
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Well, you know sports guys, sports ball. Yeah,

490
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: when you see guys in sports running, know that ability

491
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: to to to duke or quick pivot like whatever you're doing.

492
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: You know, if you're if you're playing Maddened twenty billion

493
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: in the future and it's vr, are we gonna be

494
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: able to emulate that sort of ability, that sort of

495
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: athleticism or do you want to? Yeah, there's has come

496
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 1: a point where you say, all right, well, how immersive

497
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: do I want this experience to be? Because uh, games

498
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: are about escapism, And there comes a point where you

499
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: turn the corner on that right where you're no longer

500
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: escaping it, you are experiencing it. If you have if

501
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: you have managed to replicate the experience to the point

502
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: where it's indistinguishable from the real thing. Then you're really

503
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: having that experience. So then you're having the question of

504
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: do I want that, I mean like a war game.

505
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: If I were really like war and not not some

506
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 1: sort of gamification version of war, that would be a

507
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: pretty traumatizing and terrifying experience. Maybe we'd have less real war.

508
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: Maybe we would. Maybe we would, Maybe people's opinion about

509
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: the games would change. Will say, you know, I I

510
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: get why these other games are fun because they remove

511
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: all the truly negative things of war and they just

512
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: make it a competition, like it's just a winner lose,

513
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: and so that it removes the ambiguity, it removes all

514
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: the ethics. It's it's really all about what's your skill level.

515
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: But if you were to add that back in through immersions,

516
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: then suddenly you've got another conversation going on. I truly

517
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: can't wait till I come on from work and I

518
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: see my student loan bills in the mail, and I go,

519
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: I can't deal with this right now, And I put

520
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 1: on my VR headset and I play my student loan

521
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: bills right and I just stress about it. In virtual

522
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 1: have you played you know this is this is not

523
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: exactly virtual reality, but it does remind me. Have you

524
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: played Papers Please? I was exactly thinking Papers play amazing game. Yeah,

525
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: because it's it's it's a it's not virtual reality, but

526
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 1: it's immersion. Like all your all you do is the

527
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 1: exact same job of border guard would do, and you

528
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,719
Speaker 1: need to do it well and fast, and you have

529
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: to make some pretty tough decisions based upon your own

530
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: family's situation. And there's gamification to it, certainly, but it's

531
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: pretty pretty honest to what the experiences is like from

532
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: what I've seen, and that's what makes it terrified and interesting.

533
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: And I'm just waiting for the Occulus riff version of

534
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: Papers Please. We're all gonna we're gonna start escaping two jobs,

535
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 1: because what's gonna happen. It's really just like I just

536
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: want some other job now. Either that either that's because

537
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: you don't like your job or you just want to

538
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: be able to appreciate the job you have that much more.

539
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: I haven't had to work for six months. It's time

540
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: to put on the cubical some of your area. This report,

541
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this is crazy. Yeah, here's the water

542
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: cooler level. I love this level. What's going on to

543
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: c TV last night? This is great. So there's a

544
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: show called Lost getting back into virtual reality. Another interesting

545
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: aspect is the tactile part. We talked a little bit

546
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: about that with the user interface, But how do you

547
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: give feedback to somebody? And in some cases there is

548
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: no feedback. It's just like a video game where a

549
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: video game where you're using a controller where there's no

550
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: rumble pack, it's there's no physical feedback. It's just visual

551
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: and audio and that kind of stuff. But a haptic

552
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: system does give you physical feedback. A simple one is

553
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: like a rumble pack in a in a controller, so

554
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: like you know, you know, there are a lot of

555
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: games where if you're bordering on something dangerous, it starts

556
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: to rumble, alerting you. It's another way of letting the

557
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: player knows something's about to happen. Um. I've seen a

558
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: lot of different haptic feedback systems. They're active ones. Those

559
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: are ones that have motors in the respond to things

560
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: that are happening in the game. I've seen some that

561
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: were like it was like a vest that would give

562
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: you an impact if you got shot, and even a

563
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: helmet that would have a little knocking sounds if you've

564
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: got a head shot and uh, I remember seeing it

565
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: at c Yes, and they said, do you want to

566
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: try this on? No? Right, do you do? You want

567
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: a physical reminder of how terrible you are at Halo.

568
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: I'm pretty much reminded immediately upon lugging in all of

569
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: those twelve exactly twelve man that someone or nine. But

570
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: then you've got passive hat haptic systems. These are actual

571
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: physical objects that are in your physical environment that are

572
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: mapped to the virtual world that you are in. So

573
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: a simple one could be a chair that's bolted to

574
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: the floor so you can't move the chair, but the

575
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: chair represents an actual chair in the virtual world that

576
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: if you sit in it, your virtual character sits in

577
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: the virtual one. So it could be like the Game

578
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: of Thrones and that's the iron throne there. It's really

579
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: just a chair that's in the middle of the room

580
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: you're in. Just musical Game of Thrones. Yeah, that's what

581
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: it really could be. You can just the music plays

582
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: and at the end of it, a stark dies um.

583
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: But there's also a strailer. There's also there's also the

584
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: idea of having physical objects that you can actually pick up,

585
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,719
Speaker 1: move and those are mapped to virtual objects. So the

586
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: idea is that the things you pick up have a

587
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: weight to them, they have a physical presence. You can

588
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,479
Speaker 1: actually push them and pull them and pick them up

589
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: and move them around and mean, while in the virtual world,

590
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: your character is picking up whatever the virtual version of

591
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: that object is. So it might be something as simple

592
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: as like a basketball that you pick up in the

593
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: physical world, but in the virtual world, maybe it's someone's head,

594
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: someone's bouncy bouncy head, a star head. Yeah, it could

595
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: be a star For those of you who haven't watched

596
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: Season one, don't get too attached to Sean Bean. Um

597
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: should we ever be attached to Shan I mean, I

598
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: mean he's he's amazing, but you know immediately right what's

599
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: going to happen. I want them to have a Groundhog

600
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: Day maybe where he just dies a whole bunch redo

601
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: the Edge of Tomorrow, but have Sean Bean as the

602
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: main character. Exactly Why not him is that it Tom Cruise.

603
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: To be fair, though Tom Cruise was very entertaining in

604
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: that movie. I gotta watch it. It's good. It's interesting

605
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: because I know Microsoft Actually, um, so you mentioned like

606
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: my probably early experience with haptic feedbacks like the Nintendo

607
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: sixty four Rumble Pack, Star Fox sixty four whatever, the

608
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: old like nineties video game barrel roll exactly to etcetera.

609
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: Um And, Uh, it's interesting. One of the things I

610
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,719
Speaker 1: actually like about the Xbox One as far as feedback

611
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: is concerned versus the PS four um is that they

612
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: actually win like above and beyond with the rumble feedback

613
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: on that if you play fours on it. Uh. They

614
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: put there's like the things that make the rumble happen,

615
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: these little weights that they basically spin at different frequencies,

616
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: different speeds, um and that kind of will pull different

617
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: directions or give you different variances in intensity. They put

618
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: some of them right in the triggers, like right under

619
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: the triggers. So breaking in forsa is surprisingly realistic feeling,

620
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: even though it's your fingers instead of your feet. The

621
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: feedback is really interesting. Um And and to the other spectrum,

622
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: there's stuff out there now, like gloves that you'll put

623
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: on and they'll if you're grabbing an object that's around,

624
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: they will harden or provide resistance so that you physically

625
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: can't fully close your hand because there is that object

626
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: in your hand virtually, and that's really really interesting. That's

627
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: really cool to me. It looks like you're wearing like

628
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: a plastic skeleton hand on top of your actual hand

629
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: because because they have these sort of levered arms that

630
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: end in rings, the rings slip around the ends of

631
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: your fingers, so when you are squeezing your hand, you're

632
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: actually pulling against these rings and these and these levered

633
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: arms that have usually some sort of pivot in the center.

634
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: And there's a there's actually a kickstarter for this. There's

635
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: a kickstarter for a specific glove that does this kind

636
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: of thing where you map it to a virtual object

637
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: like a ball. And yeah, just like you said, as

638
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: your hands close in on what the dimensions of the

639
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: ball would be in the virtual world, those those connections

640
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: stiffen so that you get that resistance and it feels

641
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: as if you're holding something. Now granted there's no weight there,

642
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: but there is that resistance so that you know, you

643
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: have the feeling, oh, this weightless ball is in my

644
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: hand now, which is kind of neat um. And whatever

645
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: fail safes are in that glove to keep it from

646
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: going the opposite ring, right, it broke every finger I

647
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: had I should have known not to pick up that ball. Uh,

648
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have gotten the deaf kid. Maybe wait for

649
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: the consumer version. There are other really cool ones that

650
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: we've talked about. You talked about the Censorama, where there

651
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: was a cabinet that actually also produced scent. Then we

652
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: talked about the Disney the Disney Experience. There's also a

653
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: Disney right called sore In that incorporates smells in that

654
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: it has three different smells. As I recalled, this is

655
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: trivia for you guys. And by the way, if you

656
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: ever are in a Disney trivia game, they do ask

657
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: this question. The three smells are the smell of the ocean,

658
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: the smell of evergreens, and the smell of oranges. Because

659
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 1: it's sore In over California, and you go to different

660
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: environments over California, so Sorein incorporates a lot of the

661
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 1: elements we're talking about with virtual reality. It's a huge

662
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: screen that that fills up your your peripheral, so you're seeing.

663
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 1: Everything you see is related to a a fly over

664
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: sequence over California. It blows wind at you, so that's

665
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 1: sort of a haptic feedback, getting a tactile sensation Um,

666
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 1: so you're getting this breeze blown at you. So it's

667
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: or simulates what would happen if you were hang gliding

668
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: over this space. You are in a row of seats

669
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: that is suspended from the ceiling and swoops around as

670
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: if you are actually flying. So that's another tactile response.

671
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: And you get this scent in certain scenes where they

672
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: incorporate the scent in the breeze that hits you. So

673
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: you're flying over an orange grove and you smell oranges

674
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: over long Beach and you smell medical marijuana, right, yeah,

675
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: you fly fly over muscle Beach and you just smell

676
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 1: like tanning oil and yeah, you know. Sure they decided

677
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: not to go the full route with immersion because it

678
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: is California. But no, it was really pretty, pretty interesting,

679
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: pretty immersive. And I don't know of any consumer approaches

680
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,280
Speaker 1: to trying this because it's problematic. How do you produce

681
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: the sense? How many would you produce? How do you

682
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: clean something like that so that you don't you know,

683
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: like everything smells like oranges now, you know, it's it's

684
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: a little tricky. So I don't expect that this will

685
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: become something that we commonly see in the in the

686
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: home market. But you have to mentorize some sort of

687
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: chemical synthesis down to a tiny, tiny packet of a

688
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: billion mixtures for a billion different combinations and make certain right, Yeah,

689
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 1: it would be impossible. Or you have a really good

690
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: friend who just has a huge box of stuff and

691
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: it's just waiting and like you say something like, wow,

692
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: that really does look like pizza. Pizza, pizza. Here you go,

693
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 1: and then just hold it under your nose. I mean

694
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 1: that's really the only other word version just by twenty

695
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: Yankee candles and put him in front of exactly, okay, pizza.

696
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: See that's I'm gonna go with. I'm gonna go with

697
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: Apple Christmas. And how's that pizza, Apple Christmas Pizza. I

698
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: don't know somebody's gonna do it. Yeah, I'll sign me up. Uh.

699
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: Then we have, of course, the sense of taste, which

700
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: I don't even want to think about. I don't I

701
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: don't need that kind of level of immersion. I don't

702
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 1: use one game I've played where I'm like, I want

703
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: to taste what's happening here? Did you ever see the

704
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: British comedy series hyper Drive as Nick for lost Uh.

705
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: In it, he plays the lead character who's a captain

706
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: of a of a starship and it's a very kind

707
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: of hopeless crew and they mess up all the time.

708
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,439
Speaker 1: In one of the episodes, one of the characters has

709
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 1: a device that is a glowing ball that you put

710
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: in your mouth. It's got a cable attached to it

711
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: and in a handheld um uh interface where you tell

712
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: it what flavor you want it to be. So it's

713
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: just supposed to be a thing that lets you taste

714
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: different flavors. And of course he hands it to a

715
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 1: friend of his who immediately starts putting in horrible flavors

716
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: as the guy's got in his mouth. And never trust friends, never,

717
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: But that's one of the big reasons, Like, even if

718
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: that were such a thing, I can't imagine keeping that

719
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: clean or wanting to put it in my mouth or

720
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: so I'm pretty sure taste is out. Um And a

721
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: lot of VR gear, whether it's meant for games, because

722
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: we think of it in terms of games, but VR

723
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 1: has a lot of applications outside of video games. But

724
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: a lot of the gear that researchers and VR use

725
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: is just repurposed video game gear, And the reason for

726
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: that is it's expensive to develop your own technology to

727
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: do this sort of stuff. And I talked to a

728
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: VR specialist a few years ago. It was actually when

729
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: the Nintendo we first came out, and she was so

730
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: excited about the Wii because she thought the WE controller

731
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: the we mote was an incredible boon for VR research

732
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: and was a new way of interfacing with VR. Same

733
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 1: thing with the connect, huge boon to VR research. So

734
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: the interesting thing to me is that virtual environments are

735
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: still very much part of the research world, but they're

736
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: so dependent upon companies like Oculus making stuff because without it,

737
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 1: they just don't have the money to go out and

738
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 1: develop the technology. You don't want to do a one

739
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 1: off every single time. Yeah, and it's it's sort of

740
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 1: I think a sad reverse that. Um, the funding for

741
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: the science usually isn't there and nless we find a

742
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: commercially viable thing for it, and video games are money makers,

743
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: it's super commercially viable. So when we see that stuff happen,

744
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: it's like, great, we have the tools. Um, that's yeah,

745
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: that's been There's always the always needed to be something

746
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: to kind of bring new mediums, new formats for it.

747
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: Video games. You could argue that the PS three really

748
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: made blue ray take off as opposed to HTDVD because

749
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: the PS three had it built in and people had that,

750
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: um crazy enough. Frankly, pornography is a big boon to

751
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 1: a lot of medium formats taking off. There's there's been

752
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: Google class pornography for VR type usage. That's a terrible idea.

753
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: It's terrible idea. Yeah, people, you can see what's on

754
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: that screen from the other side. I don't know if

755
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: you know that or not. Yeah, uh no, but at

756
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: any rate, yeah, no, we we had the same discussion.

757
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: I did a podcast, a couple of podcasts with i

758
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: Azactar of c net, and we talked about technology has

759
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: that gone obsolete? And we talked about then that no,

760
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: pornography actually is an industry leader. You start to see

761
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: which standards are going to be adopted because that's the

762
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: one that it moves to one first and that becomes

763
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: the standard. And it's odd. It's a surprising barometer if you,

764
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: I mean, if you if there's a format war coming up,

765
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: you can pretty much look at the adult industry as

766
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: a good indicator of what's gonna probably went out. Yeah,

767
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: it's it's there's almost a full episode there but I'm

768
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: not sure I'm comfortable enough doing it, but it is

769
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: research hours. I'll put it in. John. Well, that's I'm

770
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: glad to know you got my back anytime. All right. Well,

771
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 1: you know you've got some interesting things here too about

772
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: other uses of not just virtual reality, but augmented reality,

773
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: which we haven't really touched on yet. But augmented reality

774
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 1: does share a lot of the same features with virtual reality.

775
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,240
Speaker 1: It's more about marrying the virtual world with the physical

776
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: world in a way where it's almost like an overlay

777
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: on top of the physical world. So one of the

778
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: examples I saw was recently at Georgia Tech at their

779
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: augmented reality lab, and they have um uh, they have

780
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: an Auburn Avenue experience where the ideas you you put

781
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 1: on or you hold up a display. You don't necessarily

782
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: have to wear one. It can be on a phone

783
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: or a tablet or whatever, and you hold it up

784
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: while you're on Auburn Avenue and it will show you

785
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: historic views of what it looked like in decades past,

786
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: which gives you this ability to explore a physical space

787
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 1: in a new way. And that's something I've always been

788
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: really excited about. But it is interesting also to see

789
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: other elements using augmented reality. You have a whole sectional

790
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: augmented reality therapy, which I wasn't even aware of. Yeah,

791
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: it's a surprisingly interesting field for medicinal uses. Uh, there's

792
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 1: a phantom limb syndrome. If you guys are unfamiliar, it's

793
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: basically the ideas a lot of amputees, the brain when

794
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: you lose that limb rewires itself UM and they victim

795
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: are victim but a UM, someone suffering from from being

796
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: an amputee. They can have these phantom limbs, these phantom

797
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 1: limbs sensations. They'll still feel the pain of these limbs

798
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 1: that aren't there anymore, and there's no way to uh

799
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: to calm this pain or make it better. The limbs

800
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: not there might might feel an itch on a limb

801
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 1: that doesn't exists, so there's no way you can scratch that.

802
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 1: You can't scratch it, you can't treat it. Um. It's

803
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,439
Speaker 1: it's been a thing that's been plaguing amputees since since

804
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: it's been in the medical arena. And so this interesting thing.

805
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: One of the ways that used to actually treat phantom

806
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: limb was a mirror. They would take a mirror, and

807
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,399
Speaker 1: they would mirror it to the limb that you still have.

808
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: So let's say I don't have my left arm, but

809
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: I have my right they would mirror it, so it

810
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: looks like to your brain you have though it's in

811
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: a mirror and it's very obvious. There's actually an episode

812
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: of House Empty where they do this, UM and it's

813
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 1: actually like pretty accurate. Um. But the idea is that

814
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: you took your brain into scene into thinking that that

815
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: limit is back, and then you can go about changing

816
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: those feelings, uh, those those itches, those pains that you have.

817
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 1: And so there's this really really interesting um uh. There's

818
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: an article in Frontiers and Neuroscience UM about using virtual reality,

819
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: so you could you could be an emputee and in

820
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: multiple ways multiple limbs missing, and they put on this

821
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 1: virtual audi in the your brain being tricked into thinking

822
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: that you now have these limbs back in this virtual world. Uh.

823
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: It's it's been shown to be more effective than drug treatment.

824
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: Even there's they've cited a guy who he had been

825
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: suffering from a phantom limp pain for forty eight years

826
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: and this is the first time that it felt treated

827
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: that he was having some relief, which is nuts is

828
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: incredible to think that the immersion can be so convincing

829
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: as to have that profound an effect on our psychology.

830
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: As smart as we are, the brain is so easily tricked, yeh.

831
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 1: I mean, we could talk about placebo effect in the

832
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,879
Speaker 1: whole little thing, or even stage magicians who very much

833
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: depend upon the things our brains. The shortcuts that we

834
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: take where we make assumptions that we have perceived something

835
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: even if we haven't actually perceived it. I mean, there

836
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: are whole businesses, both legitimate and otherwise, that are based

837
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: on that premise. Yeah, exactly. There's another one. There's a

838
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: burned patient treatment that Loyal University Hospital has been using. UM.

839
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: And this one's interesting because they basically, uh, it's a

840
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: VR game, but it's like a VR FPS, but in

841
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: this case, it's like a first person snowballer. I guess

842
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: like the ideas it's a it's a it's a game

843
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: where you throw snowballs and you're in this arctic world.

844
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: And it's not like the graphics. I was watching the

845
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: video of it. It looks like PS one maybe early

846
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: PS two er graphics. UM, But the sensation of being

847
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 1: in this world, that's all ice and all snow and

848
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: you're throwing snowballs at penguins and it's happy and you're

849
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 1: having a good time. They'll put this on patients while

850
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: they're receiving treatment that's usually intensely painful. Um. Some of

851
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,919
Speaker 1: the treatments for for burn patient victims is like skin

852
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 1: stretching is one thing which is painful without you know,

853
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: having burn woods. Um. And consistently patients site uh, not

854
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: feeling the pain nearly as much. Some of them even

855
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: have a little bit of fun during it because they're

856
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: playing this game. UM. And it's again amazing. It's that

857
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: this one little thing, even with the graphics that aren't

858
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 1: that realistic, you have the sense of a cooling sensation

859
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: of feeling that burning sensation for a moment. Yeah. I've

860
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 1: seen that sort of response from other VR like researchers.

861
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 1: I've talked to them and they say, yeah, there are

862
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: times where you can have graphics that if you were

863
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: to look at this on a screen, you'd say, well,

864
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: that's not convincing at all. I mean it looks like

865
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: big polygone blocky graphics. It's not that far off from

866
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: the pterodactyl experience I was talking about. Maybe you know

867
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: better than that, but not so much that you'd say

868
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: it was a you know, a quantum leap forward. But

869
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 1: they'd say this is this doesn't matter. If you spend

870
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: enough time to acclimate yourself to the virtual environment, your

871
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 1: brain just starts to make those assumptions and starts to

872
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 1: actually produce those kind of reactions. And typically speaking, if

873
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: the latency is low, because that's one of the big issues.

874
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: The latency is low so that you don't have this

875
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 1: disorienting feeling as you move around, takes about thirty seconds

876
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: to a minute to really start to get acclimated. Yeah,

877
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: it's amazing. It also shows how plastic our brains are

878
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: that we're able to add that quickly. Yeah, there's a

879
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: there's another um Uh. Surgeons are using VR simulators even

880
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: so back in the day, you'd have to test cadavers,

881
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: which you're only gonna have so many of um that

882
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: can be tested on so many ways before we have

883
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 1: to move on to a new one. Ideally hopefully you're

884
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 1: not testing on patients live, which you know was happening

885
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: way way back. Why a lot of scientific progress made

886
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: in that unethical science. Um. But so now we have

887
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: VR systems that are super realistic um that surgeons can

888
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 1: use can use to train. And it's an interesting This

889
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: is sort of related to that there are surgeons in

890
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: Florida that they would find before surgery, they would have

891
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: the surgeons play super monkey Ball, which is, if you

892
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: haven't played it, super monkey Ball is a highly frustrating

893
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: game where they the old wood game Labyrinth where you

894
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: put the marble in the maze. There's holes all over

895
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: to move the marble. Yeah, you have a couple of

896
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: axes of tilting that you can do. Um, it's very

897
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: similar to that, very very similar um. And they found

898
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: that surgeons who played just twenty minutes of this before

899
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: surgery had was steady your hands much much better spatial

900
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 1: reasoning and abilities. Interesting uh and again like very very

901
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 1: little of practicing these reflexes in a virtual environment, giving

902
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 1: them the ability to work much better while they're actually

903
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: cutting you open and doing things inside you. Right. Yeah,

904
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: So there are other ways of using VR in this

905
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,959
Speaker 1: same sort of sense. In fact, one that I've seen

906
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 1: that psychologists have used is immersion therapy for people who

907
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 1: have post traumatic stress disorder or they have a phobia.

908
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,959
Speaker 1: They might not be able to cope in a real

909
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: situation where something might trigger that that reaction, and so

910
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: to get them more accustomed to it so they can

911
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: build up to dealing with that in a real world situation.

912
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: Virtual environments have been used to acclimate people to that,

913
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: so that because we have this feeling of immersion, if

914
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: it's done well, just well enough. It doesn't even have

915
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: to be fantastic, It just needs to be well enough

916
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: to convince the brain that you're going through this the

917
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: sequence of events that normally would trigger a negative response,

918
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: that would be enough to get the physiological response going.

919
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 1: So if someone is afraid of heights and you put

920
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: them in a virtual environment where it looks like they're

921
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 1: on top of a building, their heart rates starts to

922
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 1: go up, their blood pressure changes. I mean, they actually

923
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: start to experience the physical reaction they would have if

924
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: they were encountering this in real life. And yet you

925
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: can reassure them that they are in a safe place.

926
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 1: They are on the ground, they are nowhere near an

927
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,760
Speaker 1: edge of anything, and they can start to allow themselves

928
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 1: to acclimate and get used to this and explore. So

929
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: the first time of patient might do this. They might

930
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: just sit and look for a little bit and tell

931
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: the psychologist. When they can't, they like, I can't do

932
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: this anymore. Then they might get to a point where

933
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,399
Speaker 1: they're moving around, they might get to a point where

934
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: they're able to walk to an edge. The goal of

935
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: this is never to cure someone. The goal is so

936
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: that you can move up to a point where the

937
00:48:56,520 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: patient feels comfortable enough to actually do some immersion in

938
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 1: in real life. So with the heights example, after you've

939
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:07,800
Speaker 1: done this for a while and done a few therapy

940
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: sessions and UH and helped the patient be able to

941
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 1: manage these responses, you might take a trip out to

942
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: a building that has a few floors to it and

943
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: go up to the top floor and allow the person

944
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: to walk toward the window and and confront this in

945
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:25,880
Speaker 1: a real space, and because they've already done it in

946
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: the virtual space, they're more capable of dealing with that.

947
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: I've also seen it for people who are afraid of airplanes,

948
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: where they'll use it to have a virtual visit to

949
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: an airport and they have the same experience of stress

950
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: and anxiety that they would if they were to really

951
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 1: go in a real place, And then the goal would

952
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: be to ultimately take them to an actual airport so

953
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:47,319
Speaker 1: that they could confront this in in person once they

954
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: feel comfortable in the virtual environment. Being a top seller.

955
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,479
Speaker 1: It's funny because the the VR specialist I was talking

956
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: to you said, yeah, changes in security have made it

957
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 1: much hard order to deal with this because in the

958
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: old days, you used to be able to go through

959
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: security even without a ticket, Like you could just show

960
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: up at the airport, go through security, and then walk

961
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: to a gate because then you could you know Greek

962
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 1: people when they got off the plane, right at the

963
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: gate that they were at. I used to do it

964
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: all the time. You can't do that anymore. You have

965
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: to have a ticket to go through security, so it

966
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: makes it makes it much more expensive to treat these

967
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 1: kind of things. You have to actually buy a ticket

968
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: on a trip in order to be able to go

969
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 1: through the security. So but that's, you know, a totally

970
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: different barrier than the VR stuff. The military also uses

971
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: VR not just for training soldiers, but also as part

972
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: of uh UH systems that allow people who are operating

973
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,759
Speaker 1: vehicles that normally wouldn't have a good line of sight

974
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 1: to be able to see around them. In fact, some

975
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: of the earliest headmale displays were made for pilots so

976
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: that they could have a sixty degree view around the

977
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: aircraft they were in, because there were parts of the

978
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: aircraft that would block their visions and there'd be no

979
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 1: way of seeing through. That same thing with tanks. I've

980
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: seen some tanks that have had um head mound displays

981
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 1: and external mounted cameras with like a hundred eighty degree

982
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: field of view so that you can get a real

983
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: time They actually, uh, they stitched together all the videos

984
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 1: so that you can turn around in place and see

985
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: a three sixty degree view around the tank that you're in. Yeah,

986
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: and that's you know, any any sort of thing that

987
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 1: allows vision like physically is probably gonna be a weak

988
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,360
Speaker 1: point on your craft. It actually reminds me of like

989
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: Iron Man's heads up display. You know, that's his entire

990
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: thing is being beamed into his suit, into his eyes.

991
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: It's all video coming right back in. You know. If

992
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: you had a big window face, he would be way

993
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: more susceptible to all those. Yeah, and if any external

994
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: cameras went dead, then he'd be blind. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

995
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: it's a it's it's certainly an interesting approach of using

996
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: that same technology for something different. As for the challenges

997
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 1: of the R Well, the earliest one was that perception

998
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: problem I talked about where we had Hollywood telling us

999
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 1: that VR was going to be the future of interacting

1000
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 1: with machines, that you know, you weren't going to use

1001
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 1: a keyboard and a display anymore, you were going to

1002
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: be in the computer program. My favorite is any depiction

1003
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: of hacking where you would actually walk through amaze. Yeah,

1004
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:15,919
Speaker 1: he turn turn, take a right, and then you see

1005
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: like a skull and crossbones. You're like, oh, firewall and

1006
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:20,439
Speaker 1: you turn around. What the other way? Do you think?

1007
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 1: This is not the way this works. I got to

1008
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: punch this firewall out of the way. Excuse me when

1009
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,439
Speaker 1: I punched the firewall in the face. And you also

1010
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 1: have to wear a really off like you have to

1011
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: wear like a hot topic costume. Yeah, you have to

1012
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: do that. Also, just just in case you ever do

1013
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: enter an antiquated system, just know that no matter what

1014
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: the password is, it doesn't matter. The first two guesses

1015
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: are going to be wrong and the third one is

1016
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: gonna be right. Yeah, third one. Ah, that's what it

1017
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 1: was his birthday and his uh dog's name. Yeah yeah,

1018
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: So use a strong password generator. Is the moral of

1019
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 1: that story. Not your birthday and your dog. No, don't

1020
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: not not my birthday and my dog either, because it

1021
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: is my birthday and I know the trick. Um late

1022
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: and see again. Another big issue that is the thing

1023
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 1: that can make you feel pretty nauseated pretty quickly if

1024
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: it's not solved. And then that interface like we're talking

1025
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 1: about before, if you don't have that fade into the background,

1026
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 1: it can really become a barrier to immersion and interactivity.

1027
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 1: So here comes the last little bit of this episode.

1028
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 1: It's been an epic episode, Ruben. What do you think

1029
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 1: you think is the consumer market ready for virtual reality now?

1030
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: I mean I remember in the nineties when it was

1031
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: first coming out, that the whole virtual boy era. I

1032
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 1: remember all of that really well, and it definitely wasn't

1033
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: ready yet. Do you think it's ready now? Um? You know,

1034
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: it's funny. I think we're I think we're in the

1035
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: early days of it becoming a real thing. Um. I

1036
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 1: think Iculus riffed the Kickstarters apport behind that. I think

1037
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: it's proof enough that there's a market for it, that

1038
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: people want it. I mean they made multiple times more

1039
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: than what they were asked. Yeah, you know, it was

1040
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 1: it was one. It was for a while, it was

1041
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: the most successful kickstarter. Uh. If you compare what they

1042
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 1: were asking for versus is what they got, it was

1043
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 1: ten times the amount. And I think it's a great

1044
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 1: it's a great idea, especially the technology is getting there.

1045
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: As far as the visual thing, you can actually they

1046
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: make little headpieces. Google has a cardboard box. You can

1047
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: put your smartphone in it and get steroscopic vision to

1048
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: your cell phone. Like we have tiny tiny five inch

1049
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 1: slabs of l C deer, amile D whatever it is

1050
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 1: UM that are strong enough and fast enough to uh

1051
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 1: to produce these virtual images. So I think a lot

1052
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: of our technology for the visions there. The biggest hindrance

1053
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,360
Speaker 1: I think is going to be cost. Like the Oculus

1054
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 1: rift is actually a fairly reasonable price wise, but then

1055
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: you get omnidirectional treadmill thing. Even if it's just that

1056
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: that teflon one, no moving parts really, UM, that's still

1057
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: fairly expensive and it requires space, which means that's another

1058
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: expense because you know, we don't think of it as

1059
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: space equals money, but not everyone has a place big

1060
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: enough to have a standing, you know, pet stole that

1061
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: is just there as an interface for computer game. The

1062
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 1: first connect for the Xbox of the new connect connected

1063
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: to I guess has a much wider field division from

1064
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 1: up close, but the first one didn't, and a lot

1065
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: of game reviewers ran into problems in their tiny New

1066
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: York apartments of like, I can't I can't play this

1067
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: game apartment. It cuts off all of my limbs because

1068
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: I'm too close to the camera. But if we even

1069
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,920
Speaker 1: just think about, like so Sony's Project Morpheus, which they

1070
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: have a lot of the ecosystem already there, the PlayStation

1071
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 1: for a camera. So not only you need the headset

1072
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:33,359
Speaker 1: the Morpheus itself whenever it becomes commercially available, if it does,

1073
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: you need the camera, You need the headset, You need

1074
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 1: at least one probably of the two two of the

1075
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: move controllers who can map your hands. We're not even

1076
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: going into uh, your lower body, and that's that's a

1077
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 1: lot of and the PS four so we're talking about,

1078
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: you know about a grand buy in just for the

1079
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: very very basics yet yeah, and not even a game

1080
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: for it. Um So, I definitely think that we're sort

1081
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 1: of on that us of doing things that are reminiscent

1082
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:04,800
Speaker 1: of the crazy stuff that we saw in the nineties

1083
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 1: and will be exactly that. But we're getting closer. But

1084
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: as far as like mass adoption, I feel like i'd

1085
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 1: give us five to ten years. Yeah, I I agree

1086
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: with that. I think I think on top of that,

1087
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: on top of all the challenges you mentioned, there are

1088
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: other ones that we don't think about as consumers that

1089
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 1: are on the back end, like developing for this system,

1090
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 1: because developing a game that actually works in this environment

1091
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:31,279
Speaker 1: and is fun and functional, that's a that's a tall order.

1092
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you're really talking about the difference between say,

1093
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 1: shooting a movie as a regular cinematic experience and shooting

1094
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 1: an actual three D movie that was intended to be

1095
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: three D the entire time. And we talk about ten

1096
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: a DP and everything. When you're do in virtual reality,

1097
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: you're splitting, you have to split your resolution into so

1098
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:50,720
Speaker 1: that's a crazy horsepower to can maintain the same fidelity

1099
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 1: we have in a single vision. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, So

1100
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: there there's some big challenges that we're going to be

1101
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 1: facing technologically as well as just economically. You know the

1102
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: idea of doing the system where it's affordable, do we

1103
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: make it a loss leader where we're going to try

1104
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 1: and make it up in the content we create. If

1105
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: we don't sell enough of them, are we going to

1106
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: be able to create the content that will let us

1107
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 1: recapture the costs? I mean, there are a lot of

1108
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 1: questions to answer, and I don't think we're quite there yet.

1109
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: I think we are on that that edge where excuse

1110
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 1: me again, I don't think we're right we're there just yet.

1111
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: I think we're around the edge where it could go

1112
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 1: either way, where we could either see some really promising

1113
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: development and thus that pushes consumers to really get excited

1114
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:39,919
Speaker 1: by it, or we could have these challenges we've talked

1115
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: about show that we're not quite ready, that there's still

1116
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 1: some pieces missing that we need to solve first, and

1117
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: then maybe in five to ten years we'll have the

1118
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: pieces there where this will become at least a form

1119
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 1: of consuming entertainment. I don't. I also don't think it's

1120
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 1: ever going to become the predominant one. I think it

1121
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 1: will always be a section of the gaming community. I

1122
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: don't think it's going to be like I can't imagine

1123
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 1: that the console, the next console in ten years, with

1124
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 1: the PS four and Xbox One, I've completely gone through

1125
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: their life cycle, is going to be a head mounted system. Yeah,

1126
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:17,920
Speaker 1: I think we'll see it asn't been supported maybe in

1127
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: the next generation, as sort of like it's going to

1128
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: support this automatically like three D was supported stuff last gen. Um.

1129
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: I do think gaming is probably gonna be the herald

1130
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: of this by all means. But we see like Google

1131
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 1: Glass with the augmented reality that is not necessarily for

1132
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: gamers at all. There's some there's some filmmakers that are

1133
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 1: exploring the ability of of making stuff specifically for people

1134
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: to watch while wearing the oculus where you you can

1135
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: look around an entire scene and see everything that's going on. Now,

1136
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: that of course, presents its own series of incredible challenges

1137
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: to the filmmaking industry. Film the three sixty degrees every

1138
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: time everywhere? Have you not see the set somehow not

1139
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: see not see like like the the teamsters lounging in

1140
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: the background smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee, or or in

1141
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: the case of h you know, um uh other forms

1142
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 1: of media just do you how do you make everything

1143
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: interesting enough to look at, knowing that someone is always

1144
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 1: going to be looking at that point at any given moment.

1145
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 1: Not everyone will, but you know, it's just like theater

1146
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: in the round. If you if you set up a

1147
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 1: theater in the round, you have to assume that someone

1148
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 1: is looking at every single part of that scene at

1149
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,400
Speaker 1: any given time. You know, even if that's not supposed

1150
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: to be the focus of the scene, someone's looking there.

1151
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: So you've got to be present, and you've gotta be

1152
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: ready to go, and you've gotta make sure it looks good.

1153
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:42,480
Speaker 1: And UH has its own huge sets of challenges. I

1154
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: think when the most terrifying indicators that it is going

1155
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: to happen is Facebook taking them Facebook buying oculus, I'm

1156
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: taking too massive steak and something that used to you go, oh,

1157
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 1: why would why would Facebook want this? They firmly believe

1158
00:59:57,440 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 1: in the integration that it has and you know, they

1159
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 1: have a alien users. There's only you know, after a while,

1160
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 1: like growth plateaus, and then you think, all right, well

1161
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: we have to diversify. If we only concentrate on this

1162
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: one thing, we can't grow year over year. And if

1163
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 1: we can't grow, investors aren't happy, and the investors aren't happy,

1164
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 1: then we lose money and then that's a downward spiral.

1165
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: So this is a you know, this is a big

1166
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: bet for Facebook and UH personally, I hope it pays off,

1167
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 1: because I think it the future could be really incredible

1168
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: with us uh and uh, I certainly, I'm I'm enthusiastic

1169
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: about it, even though my own personal experience was a

1170
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: little uh, you know, stomach turning. But again, I didn't

1171
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 1: have enough time to really um acclimate myself, so I

1172
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: think after a little while I probably would have gotten

1173
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 1: used to it. If I can be a virtual sandwich

1174
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 1: artist and I go home, I'll be so happy. I

1175
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: was going to go right back to papers. Please, Ruben,

1176
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining me today. This is

1177
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: fantastic conversation, pretty long episode. I hope you guys enjoyed it. Ruben.

1178
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? Oh boy? Um, so I

1179
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: guess uh. I'm out on Twitter, um at robots r

1180
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 1: O O b O T s um heads up, very

1181
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 1: little things. A very few of the things I'll mention

1182
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 1: here are safer work, including my Twitter. Um. But also

1183
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 1: you can find me at Dad's garage. That's where do

1184
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 1: most of my theater stuff here in town in Atlanta.

1185
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 1: So if you're in town by all means comes wing

1186
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 1: by check out a show. Definitely do that. Dad's garage

1187
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite places in the city. We're

1188
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 1: doing a murder mystery tonight that's Star Wars themed. Just

1189
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: in case you're you're concerned about our nerd credentials, Trust me,

1190
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 1: the people at Dad's garage are probably some of the

1191
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: nerdiest prints I'd have was. I was painting Karelian blood

1192
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 1: stripes on pants last night for Han Solo wonderful so

1193
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 1: um yeah. Um also ed Tom and Reuben dot com.

1194
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: It's a little dicky say, I threw up for me

1195
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: and two guys from Dad's. We are doing sketches and podcasts. Um.

1196
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:50,600
Speaker 1: We have a podcast called Welcome to super Basement. Um.

1197
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 1: Trying to think of how to truncate the description. How

1198
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:55,760
Speaker 1: would you describe it? John? Welcome to Super Basement is

1199
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:58,920
Speaker 1: the story of three friends who inhabit a basement that

1200
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 1: is so huge that it incorporates everything in reality and

1201
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: fantasy and science fiction all in one. It is completely improvised.

1202
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 1: It is approximately a half hour per episode where the

1203
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 1: three friends discover some form of adventure and then go

1204
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: on it and maybe there's a conclusion and inappropriate jam.

1205
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:22,439
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No. It's very much not safe for work,

1206
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 1: but it's incredibly hilarious. I absolutely adore the show. I

1207
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 1: highly recommend checking out Welcome to super Basement. If you

1208
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,959
Speaker 1: are of an age to appreciate not safe for work humor,

1209
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: you can subscribe on there. Yeah, that's fantastic, Reuben, Thank

1210
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: you again. Thank you guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode.

1211
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: If you have suggestions for future episodes, or maybe a

1212
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 1: request for a special guest host or interview, let me know.

1213
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 1: Send me a message my email addresses, text stuff at

1214
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com, or drop me a line

1215
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:56,479
Speaker 1: on Facebook, Twitter or Tumbler. The handle it all three

1216
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 1: is tech Stuff hs W and will talk to you

1217
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 1: again really soon for more on this and thousands of

1218
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: other topics. Because it has to have work dot com