1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,680
Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

2
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:03,800
Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if you've had

3
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,160
Speaker 1: an experience with manipulation or abuse of power you'd like

4
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:06,480
Speaker 1: to share.

5
00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,640
Speaker 2: She had us an email at trust Me pod at

6
00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:10,160
Speaker 2: gmail dot com.

7
00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,560
Speaker 3: Trust me, trust for trust Me.

8
00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:16,639
Speaker 4: I'm like a squat person. I've never lied to you.

9
00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,880
Speaker 1: If you think that one person has all the answers,

10
00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:26,040
Speaker 1: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme

11
00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,880
Speaker 1: belief and the abusive power for two lucid dreamers who've

12
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,280
Speaker 1: actually experienced it. I'm Lola Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth,

13
00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,760
Speaker 1: and today our guest is Lynn Short. She's a former

14
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,159
Speaker 1: member of a group called the New Gnostic Society and

15
00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,479
Speaker 1: Armageddon Cult with a mishmash of believes from different religions.

16
00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:41,879
Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about how the man she

17
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:43,800
Speaker 1: was in love with introduced her to this group that

18
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,040
Speaker 1: emphasized lucid dreaming and withholding your orgasms to collect your

19
00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,800
Speaker 1: spiritual energy, and the shame that became attached to sex

20
00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:50,479
Speaker 1: as a result.

21
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,480
Speaker 2: She'll also tell us about the group's original guru, Samayel,

22
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,480
Speaker 2: whom they referred to as Master, what happened to the

23
00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,120
Speaker 2: group after he died, and how she became not just

24
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:03,080
Speaker 2: a member but missionary, plus the idea of spiritualizing depression,

25
00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,160
Speaker 2: and what led to her finally leaving the group.

26
00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,840
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I said this already in the

27
00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,120
Speaker 1: interview about surprise. I had never heard of this group before.

28
00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,280
Speaker 1: It sounds their beliefs are just super super interesting I

29
00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,240
Speaker 1: would have imagined. But yeah, I'm so glad we got

30
00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,040
Speaker 1: to talk to le You guys, it's a really good interview.

31
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,160
Speaker 1: If I don't say so myself, say it because of her,

32
00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:24,559
Speaker 1: Because of her, not us. That's her. Megott Uh huh.

33
00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,119
Speaker 1: What's your cultiest thing of the week.

34
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,800
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Okay, I'm reading in the news that

35
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,280
Speaker 2: these girls and Vermont, they're in college, they're on the

36
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,040
Speaker 2: rugby team, just got hazed so badly.

37
00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:37,880
Speaker 3: It's nexium level, Lola.

38
00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:39,680
Speaker 1: I didn't click on it yet, so tell, yes, tell

39
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:40,160
Speaker 1: me about it.

40
00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:45,520
Speaker 2: They're getting branded with lighters and like weird metal shit.

41
00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,160
Speaker 2: They water boarded a girl, Oh my god, water boarded

42
00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,800
Speaker 2: someone to be on the fucking rugby team.

43
00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:52,919
Speaker 3: Dude, dude.

44
00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:55,800
Speaker 2: And then the fact that this girl is like talking

45
00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,800
Speaker 2: to the police, she's getting shamed and shunned and you

46
00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,360
Speaker 2: want to play rugby, so you have to get water

47
00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,480
Speaker 2: boarded and branded.

48
00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:04,400
Speaker 1: Makes you a better athlete.

49
00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:09,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we are desperately looking for people who had

50
00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 2: to go through some sort of hazing.

51
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,839
Speaker 3: We would love to talk to you seriously.

52
00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,240
Speaker 2: It can be anonymously whatever you want, but if you

53
00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:18,880
Speaker 2: had to go through something like that, I would love

54
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:19,480
Speaker 2: to talk to you.

55
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, it's a thing. It's happening, and for

56
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 1: some reason we have not been able to find anyone.

57
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,160
Speaker 3: Well because it's so looked down upon to talk about. Yeah.

58
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,280
Speaker 1: I guess if you're still like cool with your fellow

59
00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:33,680
Speaker 1: soberty or fraternity people.

60
00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if it's not a religion, if it's just

61
00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 2: something fun, it's harder to get turned off by them.

62
00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. But for sure there are frats abusing people. For sure,

63
00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:45,200
Speaker 1: that's happening still.

64
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,799
Speaker 2: I remember this one girl, she went to an Ivy

65
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:49,799
Speaker 2: League school. She was my friend in high school, and

66
00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,640
Speaker 2: I remember her telling me they're circling our fat and

67
00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,120
Speaker 2: making us sit on the dryer and then having it

68
00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,359
Speaker 2: like turning on the dryer and then saying that's where

69
00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 2: it's jiggling. So when we started this podcast, I contacted

70
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,280
Speaker 2: her and was like, I remember you telling me this,

71
00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,239
Speaker 2: and she's like, I didn't say that. I was like, ah, okay,

72
00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,480
Speaker 2: of course you didn't. I must have made that up

73
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:11,079
Speaker 2: in my head.

74
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,160
Speaker 1: Wow. But people are scared. Yeah, it's fair, it's fair.

75
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,160
Speaker 1: It's a hard thing to come forward about anything. I

76
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,960
Speaker 1: do understand that absolutely. But yeah, if anyone wants to,

77
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,040
Speaker 1: we're here, what about you? This is not It's like

78
00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,680
Speaker 1: barely counts because I literally watched most of one episode

79
00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,200
Speaker 1: and did not even keep going yet, but this morning

80
00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:35,080
Speaker 1: I finally started bad Vegan. Okay, my primary conclusion so

81
00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,320
Speaker 1: far is just that we should never meet men on

82
00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:44,120
Speaker 1: the internet. Interesting, even though technically I met my boyfriend

83
00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,120
Speaker 1: on hinge. I feel like every story that I've been

84
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,920
Speaker 1: hearing lately is about a woman meeting some guy who

85
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,320
Speaker 1: is like presenting this idea of himself through either a

86
00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,000
Speaker 1: dating app or in her case it was words with

87
00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,320
Speaker 1: friends I think, and Twitter and Twitter yeah, yeah, yeah.

88
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,440
Speaker 2: I just want to say this is kind of a

89
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,600
Speaker 2: spoiler alert, but it's not really, and actually I might

90
00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,720
Speaker 2: be wrong, so any listeners who want to correct me

91
00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:12,320
Speaker 2: on this. We never learn why Alec Baldwin was retweeting

92
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,480
Speaker 2: him or why he has this relationship with Alec Baldwin.

93
00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,920
Speaker 3: We never we never found that out, so very interested.

94
00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,800
Speaker 2: Yeah spoiler, I know that's why you're watching it where

95
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,480
Speaker 2: it's Alec Baldwin got to do with it. But I

96
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,400
Speaker 2: am very curious about how that relationship started because it

97
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,840
Speaker 2: feels like a big part of his con.

98
00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 1: Honestly, Yeah, that's super interesting. Well, I mean it was

99
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,919
Speaker 1: also in twenty eleven, and I feel like Twitter in

100
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,880
Speaker 1: twenty eleven was such a different place where like it

101
00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,120
Speaker 1: was very easy to be if you were funny on Twitter.

102
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,719
Speaker 1: It was easy to get people to like follow you. Okay,

103
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,160
Speaker 1: that's my recollection. Anyway, I still follow a couple of

104
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:51,880
Speaker 1: people from that era where I was like, oh, that's

105
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,839
Speaker 1: super funny, They're super funny. That's like it was almost

106
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,440
Speaker 1: kind of like being a celebrity if someone's tweets were

107
00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,040
Speaker 1: really funny or their political tweets are really interesting or something. Yeah,

108
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,560
Speaker 1: I remember, Yeah, it's not I mean, it's still kind

109
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,320
Speaker 1: of a thing, but you just have to have much

110
00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:06,120
Speaker 1: more followers.

111
00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,880
Speaker 3: But he wasn't he wasn't He wasn't funny.

112
00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,320
Speaker 2: I mean his jokes were like mister Fox says, yes,

113
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:15,279
Speaker 2: that's not funny.

114
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 1: I just assumed that they were in a context in

115
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,680
Speaker 1: which they must have been found to be charming. I

116
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,599
Speaker 1: don't you know, they don't hit the same anymore, but

117
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,400
Speaker 1: they like must have hit at the time.

118
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,040
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, all right.

119
00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,839
Speaker 1: I keep hearing stories of women and even even you know,

120
00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,719
Speaker 1: Tara's mom, Like, I keep hearing stories of women meeting

121
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,440
Speaker 1: these guys who seem to be the perfect man who's

122
00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,320
Speaker 1: going to like sweep them off their feet and fix

123
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,040
Speaker 1: all their problems. And it's not that you shouldn't meet

124
00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:45,719
Speaker 1: men on the internet. It's that you shouldn't meet men

125
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,640
Speaker 1: who claim to be rich on the internet. Oh, there

126
00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:49,040
Speaker 1: it is.

127
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 2: And if they are claiming to be rich and they

128
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,680
Speaker 2: have a reason why they're not currently.

129
00:05:55,520 --> 00:06:00,719
Speaker 1: Why they having need your money, Yeah, but they just

130
00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,919
Speaker 1: suddenly really they just need ten thousand dollars, like just

131
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,240
Speaker 1: for a little, just for right now, just until they

132
00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,640
Speaker 1: get paid maybe fucking run yeah.

133
00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but somebody does need to write a romance

134
00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,960
Speaker 2: novel about like an actual prince who gets lost in

135
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:14,680
Speaker 2: a small town.

136
00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:16,200
Speaker 3: And it's just like I need.

137
00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,719
Speaker 2: Ten thousand dollars to get home, and those girl's like

138
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,720
Speaker 2: fine and everyone's like, you're an idiot, and then.

139
00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:21,320
Speaker 3: She marries them.

140
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,240
Speaker 2: People say that the cultiest things at the beginning of

141
00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,680
Speaker 2: this podcast can get too long, but that was a

142
00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:28,120
Speaker 2: really great point we just made.

143
00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:30,640
Speaker 1: I think so too. And you know what, other people say,

144
00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,000
Speaker 1: they want to hear it for longer. So you know what,

145
00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,360
Speaker 1: so what, it sounds like it's the right length exactly.

146
00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 3: Anyway, no one write that book.

147
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,719
Speaker 1: That's fine, I will read it. But okay, so great,

148
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,599
Speaker 1: let's start talking to Lynn now, shall we. Okay, yeah,

149
00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:59,760
Speaker 1: let's do it. Okay, welcome Lynn Short to the show.

150
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:01,919
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for reaching out to us and

151
00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:03,200
Speaker 1: coming on and talking to us today.

152
00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:03,839
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

153
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,320
Speaker 1: So, you were in a group that we were before

154
00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,080
Speaker 1: we were recording just now. You were saying, we were

155
00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,200
Speaker 1: kind of shocked that people don't know about it because

156
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:17,240
Speaker 1: it seems like definitely one of the cultier cults in

157
00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,920
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. So it was the new Gnostics Society.

158
00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,160
Speaker 1: So can you just start us at the very beginning,

159
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,200
Speaker 1: How did you hear about it? How did you join?

160
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:26,000
Speaker 1: What was going on?

161
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,760
Speaker 4: Okay, I was thirty something at the time, and I

162
00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,040
Speaker 4: had just moved to a new city. I was without family,

163
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 4: without familiar friends. Also jobless. I had just graduated from

164
00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,280
Speaker 4: massage school, so trying to get my license and that

165
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 4: stuff dates time, and building a business takes time, so

166
00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,320
Speaker 4: I was in a vulnerable place. The person I was

167
00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,280
Speaker 4: in love with, who was dating somebody else side note,

168
00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,880
Speaker 4: was really into new Age stuff and had like books

169
00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,040
Speaker 4: on Lucid Dreaming. And I noticed this and found a

170
00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,160
Speaker 4: flyer as I was wandering Portland and it was on

171
00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,480
Speaker 4: Lucid Dreaming and I thought, oh, he and his girlfriend

172
00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,520
Speaker 4: will be super into this, and so I brought him

173
00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,320
Speaker 4: home the flyer and he was super into it and

174
00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,000
Speaker 4: she wasn't. And I had nothing going on, and I

175
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,840
Speaker 4: was in love with this man, so I was like, well, hey,

176
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:14,640
Speaker 4: i'll check it out with you. I got nothing but

177
00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:19,200
Speaker 4: time on my hands. So we went to the first class.

178
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,480
Speaker 4: And I want a caveat in saying that the teaching

179
00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:28,160
Speaker 4: is of a dead guru taught by living people. So

180
00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:33,120
Speaker 4: we didn't meet the guru. We met a missionary. So

181
00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,520
Speaker 4: this particular missionary that we went, he was very charismatic

182
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,920
Speaker 4: and really felt very strongly about this path and was

183
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,360
Speaker 4: telling us all about it and like kind of gave

184
00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,319
Speaker 4: us a sprinkling of like the magic of it in

185
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,960
Speaker 4: that this will be the path of your life, like

186
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,840
Speaker 4: this will solve all of your problems and you will

187
00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,800
Speaker 4: understand the world in a completely different way. And it's true.

188
00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,560
Speaker 4: You've probably seen those pictures of like red string and

189
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,520
Speaker 4: attaching things to Yeah, it's exactly that. It's like this

190
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,840
Speaker 4: amazing worldview of like, oh my god, that means that

191
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,440
Speaker 4: this is connected to that, and this is connected to that.

192
00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,280
Speaker 2: The word I kept seeing was integration, like you're trying

193
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:15,680
Speaker 2: to integrate everything.

194
00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:16,680
Speaker 5: Everything's connected.

195
00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:17,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep.

196
00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:22,200
Speaker 4: So the person who created the religion Samael, he was

197
00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:27,000
Speaker 4: born in Colombia and he was told by his spirit

198
00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,920
Speaker 4: or whatever being that he was to create the synthesis

199
00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,199
Speaker 4: of all world religions and this would be the new

200
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,240
Speaker 4: nosis and to give it to humanity.

201
00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,520
Speaker 5: Yees. So it's like Kabbala, Christianity.

202
00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,720
Speaker 4: Hinduism, Buddhism. Yeah, it's kind of an amalgamation of all

203
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,120
Speaker 4: of that, as well as a lot of really old

204
00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,760
Speaker 4: late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds occult stuff. So Skurjeff

205
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,280
Speaker 4: and Blovatsky and Steiner, if you know those names. The

206
00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,240
Speaker 4: person who created the religion, he himself plagiarized a lot

207
00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,280
Speaker 4: off of that because this was all in an era

208
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,000
Speaker 4: when you couldn't fact check someone right, right, And he

209
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,160
Speaker 4: was in Colombia and he was in Mexico, and some

210
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,160
Speaker 4: of the people he was around could read and some

211
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,439
Speaker 4: could not, So they're not doing any fact checking or

212
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,480
Speaker 4: critical thinking about his stuff.

213
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,480
Speaker 1: Right. I felt like I saw some language on there

214
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,080
Speaker 1: that reminded me of like Alistair Crowley.

215
00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,520
Speaker 2: And totally this is kind of serving me scientology vibes,

216
00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,800
Speaker 2: you know, like, hey, do you want to come to

217
00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:28,680
Speaker 2: our acting workshop? Like does this religion actually have a

218
00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,920
Speaker 2: lot to do with lucid dreaming or is this just

219
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,320
Speaker 2: a way to get people to come to something.

220
00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,760
Speaker 4: Lucid dreaming is one of the key components, the key practices,

221
00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:42,199
Speaker 4: because the idea is that if you lucid dream then

222
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:46,520
Speaker 4: you can verify the teachings because you can ask questions

223
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,520
Speaker 4: and you can say certain mantras who pray about something

224
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,000
Speaker 4: fascinating and it'll get an experience. And that because you're

225
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,200
Speaker 4: not on the third plane anymore, the third physical plane,

226
00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,280
Speaker 4: you are in a higher dimension. You are us closer

227
00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,640
Speaker 4: to what truth with the capital T would be because

228
00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,280
Speaker 4: you don't have your mind, your mental mind getting in

229
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:09,320
Speaker 4: the way of the truth.

230
00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,120
Speaker 1: This is blowing my mind.

231
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 2: Whenever I lose ad dream though, I just end up

232
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,680
Speaker 2: having sex. Does that what happen? It's so disappointing. So

233
00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:23,280
Speaker 2: if anybody's meeting their angels and communicating, that's very.

234
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,840
Speaker 1: Ninety percent of my lucid dreams were me as a

235
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:27,439
Speaker 1: Mormon girl being like, oh, I'm not allowed to have

236
00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,280
Speaker 1: sex in real life. I better have sex and my dream.

237
00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:30,240
Speaker 1: Better sex and my dream.

238
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,920
Speaker 4: Ah, yeah, that would be that would be a big

239
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:38,760
Speaker 4: no no. In nosis, Yeah, you're supposed to conjure the space.

240
00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,800
Speaker 4: And you know, if you say these prayers, the atmosphere

241
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,480
Speaker 4: of the dream does change. So that's your proof, right,

242
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,440
Speaker 4: that's your that's your proof. And it's basically you're just

243
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,280
Speaker 4: pulling out of whatever you're dreaming ry and you're focusing

244
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,760
Speaker 4: your mind while you're sleeping on something else. Yeah, and

245
00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,560
Speaker 4: so then you can investigate the teachings and so you

246
00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,240
Speaker 4: can meet Jesus or Buddha or Samio And.

247
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,360
Speaker 1: Wow, this is so fucking fascinating because you are like,

248
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,440
Speaker 1: it's one thing to try to generate spiritual experiences for

249
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,600
Speaker 1: people and their waking life, but if you can get

250
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,280
Speaker 1: them to become conscious in their dream life. Of course,

251
00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,880
Speaker 1: they're going to generate a spiritual experience. They're freaking dreaming.

252
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,040
Speaker 1: Anything can happen. Like what, that's such ripe. I'm actually

253
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,880
Speaker 1: shocked now that I'm hearing about it that more groups

254
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,560
Speaker 1: haven't like sort of utilized this and made this into

255
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,480
Speaker 1: the way to manipulate people into thinking they're having a

256
00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:32,400
Speaker 1: spiritual experience.

257
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, for the listener out there who's using all of

258
00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,800
Speaker 2: our episodes to create the one on super cult, this

259
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:38,600
Speaker 2: is how you do it.

260
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:44,000
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly. So in the back of my brain from

261
00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,760
Speaker 4: kind of the beginning was always kind of a like

262
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,320
Speaker 4: that doesn't quite make sense. And even though I had

263
00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,240
Speaker 4: experiences and lucid dreamed and left my body and came back,

264
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,640
Speaker 4: and if you've studied lucid dreaming, there's kind of these

265
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,080
Speaker 4: markers of like sometimes you come back into your body

266
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,120
Speaker 4: and you've kind of some paralysis and so momentary paralysis

267
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,800
Speaker 4: and it's hard to get yourself moving again. And all

268
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,640
Speaker 4: of that has been scientifically noted. I don't know that

269
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,679
Speaker 4: I can't quote a sure study or anything, but like

270
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:13,800
Speaker 4: this stuff has been studied.

271
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:15,840
Speaker 5: Paralysis, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

272
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, One of the things that you're supposed to do

273
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,400
Speaker 4: during your day if you become a gnostic is no

274
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 4: longer consume negative things. So, and I mean that in

275
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,040
Speaker 4: a metaphorical way. So you're being careful with what media

276
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,559
Speaker 4: you choose to involve yourself with. You're reading only scriptural books,

277
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:36,920
Speaker 4: You're not going to the movie theater, you're not watching

278
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:42,520
Speaker 4: lustful films or scary films. You're I'm out, yeah, right,

279
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,280
Speaker 4: Because if you are involved in negative things or stimulating

280
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,800
Speaker 4: your mind too much, it'll show up in your lucid

281
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,240
Speaker 4: dreaming in a negative way. And so that's their proof

282
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,960
Speaker 4: is like, if you only consume these positive things, you'll

283
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,320
Speaker 4: have these spiritual experiences, But if you consume these negative,

284
00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 4: mundane things, then you'll just be mundane and asleep consciously,

285
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,040
Speaker 4: which is incorrect because you can lucid dream and still

286
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,160
Speaker 4: be consuming this stuff. So what makes these experiences subjective

287
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,440
Speaker 4: versus objective? You know, for Samuel it was like, I

288
00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,280
Speaker 4: had these spiritual experiences, So that's truth of the capital

289
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,520
Speaker 4: T versus a subjective experience, which is just your mundane life.

290
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 4: Which it's like, well, how is it truth objective rather

291
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,520
Speaker 4: than a subjective thing that you might be able to

292
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,720
Speaker 4: learn from psychologically, because you can learn things through your

293
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,600
Speaker 4: dreams about you, but it doesn't make it truth with

294
00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,520
Speaker 4: the capital TA, and like, oh, I'm going to create

295
00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,880
Speaker 4: a religion over this experience I had?

296
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:41,479
Speaker 1: Right? Right, would the news fall under negative.

297
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,600
Speaker 4: A certain extent because it's it gets really complicated because

298
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,640
Speaker 4: it's not like there's not anyone over your shoulder watching

299
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:52,360
Speaker 4: and managing you on a microscopic level of it's just

300
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,320
Speaker 4: strongly suggested, like this is how you become a good

301
00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 4: gnostic is following these specific guidelines. Okay, most people are

302
00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,360
Speaker 4: wanting to be dutiful and good, especially with spiritual stuff

303
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,640
Speaker 4: in hand, So most people would follow the explicit and

304
00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,040
Speaker 4: implicit instructions because there's both.

305
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,240
Speaker 1: Right, But of course, like reading books that are not

306
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,920
Speaker 1: spiritual books is negative because that's because it's.

307
00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 4: Just a story. It's just fiction, and fiction is imagination

308
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:29,880
Speaker 4: being used incorrectly, unless it's something like the Hobbit or

309
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,960
Speaker 4: you know, some older you know, everything had to be old, right.

310
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,320
Speaker 1: Every interesting?

311
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,000
Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, he was really against the sixties, like he

312
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:40,880
Speaker 4: hated that turn of the decade.

313
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 2: Wow, So when did it become like Okay, I have

314
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,240
Speaker 2: a crush on this guy. We'll go to this lucid

315
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,600
Speaker 2: dreaming workshop and become something that you're like, I will

316
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,240
Speaker 2: spend sixteen years doing that.

317
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,840
Speaker 4: So I was. We went to a meditation retreat held

318
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:59,080
Speaker 4: at the missionary's house and it was really nice. It

319
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,120
Speaker 4: was quiet. I'd never gone on a meditation retreat before.

320
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,360
Speaker 4: And when you slow yourself down, like you can feel

321
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 4: yourself a little better, right, And so you're like, oh,

322
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 4: I'm noticing I have emotions, and maybe that's emotional to

323
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,680
Speaker 4: have emotions, And so your experience is just that you're

324
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,880
Speaker 4: aware of yourself more, which isn't a bad thing.

325
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,200
Speaker 1: And which is going to happen in general when you

326
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 1: go on a meditation retreat and become still.

327
00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,240
Speaker 4: Regardless of whether it's Gnostic or Buddhist or fill in

328
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,520
Speaker 4: the blank. Right, So we went on a meditation retreat.

329
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,280
Speaker 4: And the other fork, so lucid dreaming is one of

330
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,240
Speaker 4: the big forks in the road for nosis, and the

331
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,400
Speaker 4: other gigantic, blaring fork in the road is the sexual

332
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,920
Speaker 4: alchemy piece. And that's the part where you can only

333
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,880
Speaker 4: have a partner of the biological opposite sex. Gay people

334
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:52,080
Speaker 4: aren't really can't really get past public level. There's a hierarchy.

335
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 4: There's public level, first chamber, second chamber, et cetera. And

336
00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,520
Speaker 4: you can't really get past the public level if you're

337
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,640
Speaker 4: gay or trans or any of that. Like, they might

338
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,240
Speaker 4: let you in and see it, but you don't get

339
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,600
Speaker 4: the candy right, right, You have to be hooked up

340
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,000
Speaker 4: in order to awaken your consciousness fully. You have to

341
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,240
Speaker 4: be with a partner. You can if you are single,

342
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,480
Speaker 4: and you end up staying single, you can waken your

343
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,320
Speaker 4: consciousness to about fifty percent. I don't understand this percentage.

344
00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,560
Speaker 3: So because you're only half a person, yes.

345
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,320
Speaker 1: Exactly, Yeah, we're not complete.

346
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, that other fork in the road is like the problem. However,

347
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,520
Speaker 4: my friend was really like, oh my god, this is

348
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,960
Speaker 4: my path. I'm going to walk this and will you

349
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,080
Speaker 4: be my wife?

350
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:35,560
Speaker 5: Why?

351
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:37,560
Speaker 1: Oh fuck yeah.

352
00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,159
Speaker 4: I will say the positive part of my life. And

353
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,960
Speaker 4: Moses is my husband. We're still married. I don't know,

354
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:48,000
Speaker 4: we're still married? Yes, woah nineteen years wow ha, Oh

355
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:48,760
Speaker 4: my gosh.

356
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,520
Speaker 1: So he leaves the girl that he's with. Essentially, as

357
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,320
Speaker 1: you guys get deeper into this thing, how long did

358
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,840
Speaker 1: it take to go from like the toe dipping to like, oh,

359
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,360
Speaker 1: this is something I really want to explore more full

360
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,400
Speaker 1: time seven months, okay, solid, And I was thinking.

361
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,240
Speaker 4: Of leaving the If you read the books, they're very

362
00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,480
Speaker 4: incoherent and they're kind of cruel self compassion is not

363
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,760
Speaker 4: a thing. So I was ready to leave. And then

364
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,840
Speaker 4: Justin was like, will you be my alchemical wife? And

365
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:17,399
Speaker 4: I'm like, a.

366
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:23,200
Speaker 1: Fuck alchemical alchemy? So alchemy is yeah, okay, alchemy is sex.

367
00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's all of these different terms for sex. You

368
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,960
Speaker 4: tried not to say sex. You didn't want to be

369
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,680
Speaker 4: too graphic, you didn't want to be lude.

370
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,159
Speaker 1: And alchemy is used because there's an element of unlocking

371
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,119
Speaker 1: of spirituality that comes with sex.

372
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,639
Speaker 4: Right, yes, yes, absolutely, can you tell us about what

373
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 4: that is? Okay, I'll just be really explicit and I

374
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,399
Speaker 4: hope that's okay. Yeah, yeah, all right. So the idea

375
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,600
Speaker 4: with it, and there's different practices and other religions, so

376
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:56,040
Speaker 4: Samuel based this practice off of those. The basic idea

377
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 4: of the practice is that you come together as man

378
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 4: and wife and you have sex, but generally with as

379
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,240
Speaker 4: little movement as possible because you don't want to overstimulate

380
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 4: the glands and have an orgasm. Because the orgasm is

381
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 4: the energy that you collect and you use to pull

382
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,679
Speaker 4: up through your spine. And as you do this, you

383
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 4: are If you say a prayer to get rid of

384
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 4: an ego, then that energy can be used to get

385
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 4: rid of an ego. Or if you are praying for

386
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 4: a particular health thing that will cure your health thing.

387
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 4: Or if you're trying to awaken your consciousness and have

388
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 4: an experience, a lucid experience or an experience in your meditation,

389
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,640
Speaker 4: then that will aid you. Because this is the elixir

390
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:42,159
Speaker 4: of long life. You will become eternal by conserving your energy.

391
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,280
Speaker 5: So having a lot of sex but having no orgasms.

392
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 4: Ideally, if you are of the appetite having sex every

393
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 4: day but once a day and not having an orgasm.

394
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,440
Speaker 1: And so how long, like do you just do it?

395
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,199
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to get this is like no, you can

396
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,359
Speaker 1: ask that. I'm like, is it just a quick dip?

397
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 2: Like?

398
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,880
Speaker 1: How how much sex are you supposed to have if

399
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,879
Speaker 1: you're trying to avoid orgasm?

400
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 4: It depends on the practitioners. You could have sex for

401
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 4: as long as you want, as long as you're not

402
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 4: having an orgasm. And you know, there were times where

403
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 4: we would have as me and my husband would have

404
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 4: a session that would last an hour.

405
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,640
Speaker 3: That would sounds so frustrating.

406
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,640
Speaker 4: I mean it's edging, right, it's edging every day.

407
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 3: Never ever, I mean that tends.

408
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 4: No because you are using your own will to have

409
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 4: an orgasm, which is basically flipping your fingers off at

410
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 4: God because the energy isn't for you as a person,

411
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 4: that is for God.

412
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 1: The most pressing question that comes up for me with

413
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 1: this is like, what about like nocturnal emissions, Like.

414
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 4: Well, you're really sad and you pray because you're really sad.

415
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 4: It happened, Like it's it's bad that it happens. But

416
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,480
Speaker 4: it's worse if you're on the physical plane because you're

417
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,120
Speaker 4: in a denser layer of existence and that's your own

418
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 4: self will where where you can be pulled into having

419
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 4: an orgasm. If you're in a more subtle vice because

420
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,920
Speaker 4: there are more planes past the fourth dimension, the more

421
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 4: subtle the enticements can be.

422
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,439
Speaker 1: And so if you accidentally if like you're trying very

423
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,679
Speaker 1: hard not to and you just it just happens. Like

424
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,199
Speaker 1: is there some kind of like repentance process, like what

425
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 1: does that look like?

426
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 4: There's lots of prayer. I mean in the books it's

427
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 4: written that you should never ever have an orgasm, and

428
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 4: then if you do, your a you're being wilful about it,

429
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 4: and be you're harming your divine mother because there's you

430
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 4: have a God, you have a parental component, you have

431
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,160
Speaker 4: your being, which is your father, and you have your

432
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 4: divine Mother, and you have your christ child that is

433
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 4: within that. You're trying to grow by all these practices

434
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 4: because you as a person is sinful, egoic, bad, wrong,

435
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 4: et cetera, deluded even you know, you're just in delusion.

436
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 4: You live in delusion and your psychology is asleep. So

437
00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 4: the only way to awaken that is through these specific practices. Now, me, specifically,

438
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 4: I started having a problem not having an orgasm because

439
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 4: that's how generals work, right, Yeah, which created a great

440
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 4: deal of shame and worry and self punishment because I

441
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 4: couldn't stop it. It wasn't like I'm going to have

442
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 4: an orgasm, woo, it's best. Yeah, they we actually became painful.

443
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 4: I'm not trying to have it happen, so I'm trying

444
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 4: to like oh again, and so physically it was painful.

445
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 4: Emotionally it's painful, and I worried that I was bringing

446
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 4: my husband down to hell. My god, it's just this pressure.

447
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 4: So there are layers of people who are influencers, if

448
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 4: you will, in gnosis, so they're you know, you have

449
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 4: the missionary baseline, and then you have the people who

450
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 4: have awoken their consciousness some and so they tend to

451
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 4: have more influence because they're purified and they know things.

452
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 4: I would go and I would ask these other people,

453
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 4: how can I stop this from happening? And I would

454
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 4: get I'm not praying hard enough. I need to do

455
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,439
Speaker 4: more proaniama, which is a breath exercise. I'm hurting my

456
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 4: divine mother and I need to stop that. This was

457
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 4: my and oh it's fine, it's usually it'll probably go away.

458
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 4: It's more of a problem for your husband. Work on it,

459
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 4: you know, when you're about to have an orgasm, that's

460
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 4: what I you know, sometimes I didn't. Sometimes I didn't.

461
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: Dude, Oh my god, I just can't imagine the shame

462
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: and like rebuilding your sex life after it must have

463
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 1: been a whole ordeal like I.

464
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 4: Do near the one would think, I want to.

465
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,119
Speaker 1: Talk for a second about Samiel. That's how you say it.

466
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: Where was he from Colombia? Okay, so he was Columbia.

467
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 4: Yes, he was born in Colombian. He had a human,

468
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 4: a normal human you know. Name. That was his awakened

469
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 4: consciousness name. That was the name of his internal being,

470
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 4: the Angel of Mars.

471
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: Did everyone have to change their names or was that

472
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: just to him?

473
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 3: Thing?

474
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 4: Only if you're awake, okay, if you're fully awake or

475
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 4: awake to a certain level, okay, and then it's no

476
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 4: longer you receiving the benefits. It's your being and your god,

477
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 4: your internal god, receiving the benefits. So you try to

478
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 4: remove yourself completely from the equation as much as possible

479
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 4: and just become a.

480
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 3: Like a vessel.

481
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he was called the Master, right, that's what Okay?

482
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: There is a website for this group. I went to

483
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: the Resurrection Process page.

484
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 4: Yeap.

485
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: So there's a whole story and I'm just going to

486
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: read it out loud, and hopefully I'm not jumping ahead

487
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 1: too much. But I'm just going to read a little

488
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: quote here. So someone wrote this story, and you can

489
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: tell me who it was that wrote this. But this

490
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: is after Samiel dies. I think someone is writing this

491
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: and they're saying they went to visit his body and

492
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: have a visitation with him, because he was supposed to

493
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: be resurrected. Quote. Suddenly the unexpected happened. The Master opened

494
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: his eyes with the far away gaze into the infinite sky.

495
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: They were eyes of amazement. This is while his dead body,

496
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: or rather of great mystical ecstasy. This was shocking for me.

497
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: It was even more shocking when the Master sat up

498
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 1: and his arms, which were crossed like the Egyptian pharaohs,

499
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,239
Speaker 1: opened out in the form of a cross, and an

500
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,919
Speaker 1: abundant amount of blood spurted out of the stigmata in

501
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: his palms, which splashed onto my white shirt, which I

502
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: watched in amazement. I also saw that this blood fell

503
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: on those who only a moment ago were contemplating him.

504
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: Out of that entire great moment which struck me most

505
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: was the Master's gaze toward the infinite sky. So, first

506
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: of all, who wrote this, If.

507
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 4: I had to guess, it would be Vargas, who is

508
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 4: the main director of our particular sect ofgnosis. Because as

509
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 4: the Master dies, m splinters happen. So like different groups

510
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 4: were like, no, we're going to work this way. We're

511
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 4: gonna work this way. It's like Protestantism and Catholicism, right right,

512
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 4: everyone's going to look at it a different way. So

513
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 4: I don't know exactly who wrote it. My guess would

514
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 4: be Vargas, who is in Rome, and he's our director,

515
00:25:59,000 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 4: our main director.

516
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, So is resurrection a part of the teachings?

517
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 4: Yes, So resurrection happens if you are mostly awake. Returning

518
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 4: happens when you're asleep. So psychologically, so you and I

519
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 4: other basic people or people who have only completed the

520
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 4: path to a certain extent, just return and based on

521
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 4: your karma good bad, you have good bad placement of

522
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 4: where your feetus arrives.

523
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: Okay, wow, So it's not quite resurrection then.

524
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 4: It's only resurrection if you're awake, right.

525
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: Otherwise it's just normal run of the male, pass life,

526
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 2: new life, like oh.

527
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 4: So and so, or you might get born. But if

528
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 4: you're awake, that means you get to return to exactly

529
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 4: the point from what you left, and you get to

530
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 4: complete the path, or you get to use your body.

531
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 2: I'm of the thought that I do really think people

532
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 2: like at Cartetole or whatever have collapsed their ego and

533
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 2: are living in a perpetual state of one's So I

534
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 2: completely believe that that's possible. Was there any good that

535
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,959
Speaker 2: came out of spending this much time meditating, collecting like

536
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 2: sexual energy?

537
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 5: I mean, what was happening with people?

538
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 4: I can really only speak for myself my own experience.

539
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 4: There were positive things, There were definitely, I mean I

540
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 4: grew the fuck up. You know, I was in my

541
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 4: early thirties and still very mousey and still very unsure

542
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 4: about the ways of the world, and this gave me

543
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 4: an answer, Like I could put all of my energy

544
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 4: into this and study it and feel confident that this

545
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 4: was the path we were told. This was the path.

546
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 4: There is no other path. Everyone else is diluted. They

547
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 4: might be on a good path for them, like oh,

548
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 4: I'm a Christian or I'm a Hindu, but their path

549
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 4: has an endpoint. Whereas nosis took you all the way

550
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 4: to full consciousness. Right, So I was on the path

551
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 4: of the capital t and you know there's confidence with that,

552
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 4: and you're learning the mys like there was a magical

553
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 4: thing about it, Like there's this mystery that you're solving

554
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 4: bit by bit because you're learning about like what the

555
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 4: Masons really were and how you can look at ancient

556
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 4: art and see that it's all about the sexual teaching,

557
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 4: like all of the great masters of art. They were

558
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 4: showing you, like you know, the statue of David, which

559
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 4: we all can have a picture of in our mind.

560
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 4: That's the last point where David is going to slay

561
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 4: his ego. And he did it through sexual alchemy. That's

562
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 4: why he was so beautiful. You know, you could look

563
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 4: at a picture and know that the secret of the

564
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 4: sexual teaching was within it. Because these symbolisms and stuff

565
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,479
Speaker 4: that was very magical, It felt amazing. It gave me

566
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 4: this understanding of the world, like just a foundation of

567
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,679
Speaker 4: like awe and wonder about the world. And I was

568
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 4: raised very secular, like Dad was an atheist, Mom was

569
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 4: a non practicing Baptist. Like no one pushed any religion

570
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 4: on me. And while I wasn't even spiritual, when I

571
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 4: graduated college, I was curious about humanity and what it

572
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 4: meant to be a person and how am I this thing?

573
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 4: And so this kind of filled that niche for me

574
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 4: post college. Massage school. It gave me some meat to

575
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 4: chuan to understand intellectually, and it gave it an emotional

576
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 4: component because it's meant to be this path of devotion

577
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 4: to your divine mother, Like I learned how to meditate,

578
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 4: not through the Gnostics. They teach awful meditation practices. So

579
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 4: Justin and my cell, Yeah, it's not awful in terms

580
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 4: of like they harm you. It's just like bad instruction.

581
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 4: Like it's just like just be quiet, Like what do

582
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 4: you do with the quiet?

583
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: Right?

584
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's sitting there stirring. So we did go to

585
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 4: actual Buddhists. We were on the West Coast, thankfully, and

586
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 4: so there's a couple of different meditation centers that have

587
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 4: like different sects of Buddhism come in, and so we

588
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 4: went to different Buddhists and learn how to meditate.

589
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: That's great that you were allowed to do that.

590
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 4: We were not. So our first instructor, he really did

591
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 4: feel the pain of that lack of instruction. And I

592
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 4: will say I thank him very much for giving us

593
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 4: sort of the idea and the encouragement to to seek

594
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 4: out meditation and from good instructors, because he would do

595
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 4: the same thing. He would go and learn a technique

596
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 4: and try to give it to us. And then when

597
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 4: we became adults in the group, we were encouraged by

598
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 4: him to go outside the box. Now, most missionaries will

599
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 4: tell you don't go outside the box of Samio, Like

600
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 4: all you need to know is in the books. That's

601
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 4: all you need to know. And my instructor, you know,

602
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 4: was a rebel. He taught outside the box. He's still

603
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 4: inside the box, but he teaches outside.

604
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: Of right, right, right, Yeah. I mean I find it

605
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: interesting when these some of these groups combine all these

606
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: different religions, but they like don't take the good parts.

607
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: It's like, there is a way to combine religions in

608
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: a way that's really useful. But like you're not taking

609
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: the self compassion from Buddhism, for example, you're not taking

610
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: the mindfulness and like how you just went the as.

611
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were supposed to be quiet most of the

612
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 4: day in our mind. You have this system called subject

613
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 4: object location, and it's basically to get you to stop thinking.

614
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 4: I guess stop thinking technique, which can lead to mindfulness,

615
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 4: and it can lead serenity because you're not worrying about

616
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 4: Ukraine and you're not worrying about Trump, so you're not

617
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 4: filling your mind with the bad stimulus. You're managing your

618
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 4: time and your energy and quieting down and that can

619
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 4: have a positive effect.

620
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: But the whole thing with mindfulness is like supposed to

621
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: be without shame and just noticing and then gently coming,

622
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, versus like I think people tend to regardless

623
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: of the group. A lot of people think that meditation

624
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: is supposed to just be like, well, just don't think

625
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: we're not capable of.

626
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 4: But that's why we went somewhere else to learn actual technique, right,

627
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 4: So I will give NOSS credit in that it taught

628
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 4: us how to observe ourselves and like, oh, what am

629
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 4: I feeling? And why am I feeling that? And do

630
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 4: I need to be feeling that? And can I react

631
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 4: in a different way? And it led to questions which

632
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 4: aren't necessarily a bad thing, but you're supposed to In nosis,

633
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 4: you are supposed to take those observations and then condemn

634
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 4: yourself what you have observed. So gnostics have turned suffering

635
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 4: into a virtwo. One of the other components is to

636
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 4: do practices that awaken your consciousness, and you're supposed to

637
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 4: voluntarily suffer. And the voluntary suffering part is you sacrificing

638
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 4: your interests, your personal desires, your self compassion, and sacrificing

639
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 4: that you are supposed to become nothing, which on a

640
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 4: metaphorical level. Sure, if you're a monk, maybe because you're

641
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 4: not in the world and trying to function in relationships

642
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 4: in the same way. But I think it's damaging because

643
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 4: you're still trying to be in the world and do

644
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 4: these very intense practices that I think more often than

645
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 4: not monks are the ones doing that kind of level

646
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 4: of inner work, right.

647
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: I get so angry at religions that tell people to

648
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: feel bad about being a human person.

649
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: It's called dying daily. You had to die daily, Die daily?

650
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was that was actually one of the Yeah,

651
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:08,959
Speaker 4: dying while walking.

652
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

653
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 5: Wow, that's the name of that.

654
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 4: Came through from a second We have two directors basically,

655
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 4: one is in Rome and the other is in Australia.

656
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 4: He taught those two things dying while walking. So you're

657
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 4: just shutting down any like I had a negative thought

658
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 4: about Sally. Oh my god, I suck, and so you're like,

659
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 4: I'm dying that, die in that, die in that. And

660
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 4: then also that you should not have self compassion. You

661
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 4: should never give yourself self compassion because then you're just

662
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 4: sitting in pity, you're feeling sorry for yourself and you're

663
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 4: just stroking the ego you're building your ego rather than dying,

664
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 4: and so you should be accusing yourself. I don't know

665
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 4: how they balance this. You shouldn't be mean to yourself,

666
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 4: but you shouldn't be nice to yourself. I don't know

667
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 4: what that.

668
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, because to yourself is like also giving yourself too

669
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: much attention, right right, like exactly focused on yourself too much,

670
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: but just hate yourself casual or yourself.

671
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, but not that much.

672
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

673
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: Yeah that's really easy to balance.

674
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I heard you mention hell.

675
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 5: So there was the Christian version of hell.

676
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 4: There was their version of hell. And it's not that

677
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 4: you stay there for eternity. But if you die with

678
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 4: your ego intact, and you get one hundred and eight lifetimes,

679
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 4: by the way, you get one hundred and eight chances.

680
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 4: Unless you're super evil and like kill babies or kicked puppies,

681
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 4: you lose a couple of lifetimes. If you're super bad,

682
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 4: but everyone is born their first round, they get one

683
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 4: hundred and eight rounds, and on your one hundred and eighth.

684
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 4: If you haven't done anything with your ego, if you've

685
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 4: just been super selfish or super lustful, being a normal human,

686
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 4: then you go to hell, and your ego has to

687
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 4: be dissolved, and upon completion of that dissolution, that dissolving

688
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 4: you are then granted back into the absolute. You're granted

689
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 4: back into heaven, but you have no awakened consciousness of it.

690
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 4: So you're like an ant in heaven, the drop in

691
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 4: the ocean, rather than being the ocean. You are the

692
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 4: drop in the ocean.

693
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:07,320
Speaker 1: Wait, what.

694
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 2: You just won't You just aren't conscious that you're everything

695
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 2: you're but you're not in hell anymore.

696
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 5: You're not being tortured, You're just You're just a.

697
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 4: Pure, innocent spark of energy that has no attachment to anything.

698
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 4: But hell could feel like eternity, It could go on

699
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 4: for another eon, so it might as well be awful.

700
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 4: And the more conscious you are when you die, the

701
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 4: more you're going to feel that as you dissolve.

702
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 5: Oh that's one hundred and seven too many lives for me.

703
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, clearly it sounds like the directors need to

704
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 1: go to O C D therapy, which will teach you

705
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: that thoughts are just random generation, like random noise, that

706
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: your brain is brain is generating you.

707
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 4: That's you thinking bad things. You have to stop thinking

708
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 4: bad things.

709
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: So all of this. Are you guys like living somewhere

710
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: with other people or you're just sort of living a

711
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: normal life and going to meetings? Like how does it work?

712
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 4: Originally we were just living in a separate place and

713
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 4: just going to meetings, and our personal missionary ended up

714
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 4: buying a house that had a basement apartment, so Justin

715
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 4: and I lived in there and we kind of communed.

716
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 4: I wouldn't say it was a commune, but it was

717
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 4: like we were just surrounded by people who were involved

718
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 4: in the cult. It was very unattached, but you definitely

719
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 4: met often. Our missionary taught three, four or five.

720
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: Times a week, So what does that mean?

721
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 4: You're going to meetings and he's teaching you about nosis?

722
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 4: And there are different levels. There's the public level, there's

723
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 4: the first chamber level, there's the second chamber level, and

724
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 4: the third chamber level. Now second chamber and on gets

725
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 4: interesting because you get a vestment, you get a garment,

726
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 4: and then there's a temple in the home and you

727
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 4: get to lark all these religious activities.

728
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: There are so many terms to learn. I need like

729
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: a dictionary for this.

730
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 2: Are you saying like, yeah, I say.

731
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,760
Speaker 4: It with amusement and disdain both.

732
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: Wow, do they call it LARPing?

733
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 4: No? Okay?

734
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: I was like, this is some new term. There's no

735
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: way she can mean actual LARPing.

736
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 4: Okay, would they would be super offended by my derogatory term?

737
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: I got it, got it.

738
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 4: It's very it's meant to be a very sacred it's

739
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 4: basically church in your house.

740
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: So when you get to a certain level, you get

741
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: a garment and then you can do like rituals in it.

742
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 4: Okay, yep, there's two caveats. You have to be not drinking,

743
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 4: not drugging, and you have to it doesn't have to

744
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 4: be perfect, but you have to be on board with

745
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 4: the sexual teaching. Like there can't be like a question

746
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 4: about the sexual teaching, like, well maybe sometimes I'll have

747
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 4: an orgasmic. No, no one's checking on you, No one's

748
00:37:59,080 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 4: going in your bedroom.

749
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 5: Did you get one of the cool outfits?

750
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 4: Oh? Not only did I get a cool outfit? I

751
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 4: became a missionary. My husband and I became a missionary

752
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 4: in and seven, so we got to teach the teaching.

753
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: Did you end up like recruiting anyone ever? Or it

754
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: was just teaching people who already believed.

755
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 4: Lord blessed Portland Portland, Oregon is a special place, and

756
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 4: you could just put up flyers and people would come.

757
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:30,959
Speaker 4: I don't know why. I don't know why they came.

758
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 4: So that was our level of recruitment, was putting up

759
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 4: flyers for a lucid dreaming course or study Caawba law

760
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 4: with us. Be neat spiritual people. The caveat on that is,

761
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 4: we never promoted Christianity, and it's very much a Catholic

762
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 4: like faith. So you start out with the weird Hindu

763
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 4: stuff and the alchemy stuff, not the sexual alchemy. Like, oh,

764
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 4: study these interesting symbols that these really ancient people thought

765
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 4: was you know, I'm gonna make goal right. So you

766
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,399
Speaker 4: studied meditation with them or lucid dreaming or et cetera.

767
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,479
Speaker 4: And as you stayed in it became more and more

768
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 4: about the Christian faith.

769
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 1: Megan, we should go on a road trip and just

770
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: go to every weird thing that has a flyer of

771
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: it side note, every weird like seminar. Yes, this sounds great.

772
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: Did you learn how to develop the skill of lucid

773
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: dreaming to.

774
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 4: A certain extent? Okay, it takes a lot of dedication,

775
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,359
Speaker 4: and I had experiences and a lot of them were

776
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 4: kind of negative. I also had a lot of fear

777
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 4: because like, oh, what I'm going to see is going

778
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 4: to tell me about how awake I am, how sinful

779
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 4: I am. And so I think that just kind of

780
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 4: intermingled with the possibility of lucid dreaming, and so what

781
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 4: I would end up having lucid dreams about was me

782
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 4: kind of like attacking myself for symbology that gave me

783
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 4: a negative self confirmation. That makes sense. The suffering part

784
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 4: kind of adds a sucky flavor suit for lack of

785
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 4: better words, to the sexual piece that I was having

786
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 4: a problem with, because you're supposed to be suffering in NOSS,

787
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 4: like that's just part of it. You know, voluntarily you

788
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 4: should feel pain. So if you're feeling pain, you're kind

789
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 4: of doing it right. So it becomes this kind of

790
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 4: vicious loop of like exactly, oh, I'm experiencing pain with

791
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 4: this religion, I guess I'm doing it right. And so

792
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 4: I'm trying to shove my square peg into this round

793
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 4: hole and wondering why I'm not fitting right, and so

794
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 4: I'm not questioning should I leave? Is this healthy? So

795
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 4: that's I think the danger, the sort of subtle danger

796
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 4: of nosis is that it doesn't allow you to question it.

797
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 4: It doesn't allow you to have critical thinking about it.

798
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 4: I was a very skeptical person before I entered nosis,

799
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 4: and I had to turn that part of my brain off.

800
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,320
Speaker 1: YEA, Luckily I'm getting to, you know, get some oil

801
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: on it, and you know, sounds pretty un rusty wheels.

802
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

803
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 1: So I feel like the trick is either if people

804
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 1: are suffering, tell them it's because they're doing it wrong,

805
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: or in the case of this group, tell them that

806
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: they're doing that means they're doing it right. Oh you

807
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:19,240
Speaker 1: feel pity.

808
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 4: It's a little bit of both because you can't be

809
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 4: Remember it's kind of like you can hate yourself, but.

810
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,879
Speaker 1: Not you can't be too negative, right right, right right,

811
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: You have.

812
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 4: To this weird balance. They call it walking the razor's edge.

813
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: So, but either way, it's a way of teaching you

814
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: that the signals in your body that tell you that

815
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: something is wrong are emotions.

816
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 4: That you have. Ye saying this is punishing, This is abuse.

817
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 4: You know, sure, maybe you're doing it to yourself, but

818
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 4: it's an abusive cycle. It's being supported by the people

819
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 4: around me. You know, they're all abusing themselves too.

820
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: Oh, it's so insidious. So Samiel is dead. So it

821
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: broke off into a couple of groups. So did the

822
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 1: new group your group? Would you say that Argus is

823
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: similarly like was it kind of just like he replaced

824
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: on my l or is it more spread out in

825
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: terms of the hierarchy.

826
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 4: I think more spread out because I never had a

827
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 4: whole lot of contact with him. I think I met

828
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 4: him twice after our missionary training, which was three months.

829
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 4: And then you're responsible for people's spiritual and psychological well being,

830
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 4: you know, I mean monks and nuns and chaplains they

831
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 4: study much longer and study, you know, So most people's

832
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 4: problems were outside of our scope of practice, basically, granted

833
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 4: Justin and I we knew that. And so anybody who

834
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 4: needed more help psychologically than we could offer, it's like here,

835
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 4: here's some references, go see these people. That doesn't happen

836
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 4: in a lot of gnostic circles, like you're supposed to

837
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 4: get your healing through the group. Psychological trauma is not

838
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 4: really being addressed properly. Another thing I would say about that, right,

839
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 4: But you were gonna ask me a question about Fargus.

840
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 4: I didn't meet him very often.

841
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: No, But he's not like sending out directive to people

842
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,959
Speaker 1: below him, which go to the people below that, and a.

843
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 4: Little bit of that. I mean, the directives weren't very directive.

844
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,399
Speaker 4: They were like, this was my experience lately, and so

845
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 4: you should teach about that in your own way. So

846
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 4: we would get emails every other week, every week sometimes

847
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 4: and it would be like, I have this experience in

848
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 4: the astroplane, and isn't that neat.

849
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: That's so interesting? How I mean, I guess it happens

850
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: a lot. But you know, Megan's old religion is a

851
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: good example of just like how a religion can live

852
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 1: on or a cult can live on without the original

853
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: leader who made it all up.

854
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 4: You know. Well, you know there are people that end

855
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 4: up taking the place of that, the other missionaries, and

856
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 4: they have influence and they I do not believe anybody

857
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 4: in Nosis currently has any nefarious intentions, you know, I

858
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 4: think they all are believe their thing. They believe this teaching.

859
00:43:58,400 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 4: They're all doing it with good and.

860
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 3: Do they take a lot of money.

861
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 4: The missionaries are meant to be supported by the students,

862
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 4: and that they are called students, not members, And that

863
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 4: depends on how rich the area that you live in is,

864
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 4: but there's no demand. That's another tricky part. So like

865
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 4: please donate to the center or the church, but there's

866
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 4: no expectation of level or amount. It's just like please

867
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,439
Speaker 4: support us, or hey, we're gonna have a garage sale,

868
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 4: Please donate some items that you'd like to be sold,

869
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 4: but we keep the money. That kind of thing, gotcha.

870
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're going to stuff multiple times a week,

871
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 1: You're surrounded by people. The two of you come missionaries yourselves.

872
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: You're working like a regular job while this is all happening.

873
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 4: Yep, yep. So because we live in America where the

874
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 4: cost of living is as high as it is, especially

875
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 4: in Portland, as high as it was, we couldn't not

876
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 4: work full time jobs. So Justin, who was thinking of

877
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 4: going back to school to get a degree, ended up

878
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 4: just in semi truck driving but locally, so he was

879
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 4: like delivering items locally so that he was home every night,

880
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 4: and I was a massage therapist. That was kind of

881
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 4: an easy thing to work around in my schedule, right right,

882
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 4: But we're still working. By the time we took over

883
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 4: the school in Portland, we were working full time jobs

884
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,280
Speaker 4: and teaching four and five nights a week and writing

885
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 4: lectures and preparing for that and doing the rituals.

886
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 3: So no free time, none, no, not a second.

887
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 4: Not a second. No, that's sort of the ideal, not

888
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 4: that you're working. Actually, it'd be better if you lived

889
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 4: as simply as possible and as poorly as possible, because

890
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 4: that's good to destroy the ego, because it's your ego

891
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 4: that wants goodies like heat.

892
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 1: Oh who is the ego?

893
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So ideally you shouldn't buy a house.

894
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 4: Ideally shouldn't invest in your retirement because it's also an

895
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 4: armageddon cult. So the world is ending and pretty quickly.

896
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 4: Oh oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. We had a date for

897
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 4: a while, but that passed. So when it was Vargas

898
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 4: had said that he had an experience that in twenty

899
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:13,479
Speaker 4: fifteen the New York would sink into the ocean, either

900
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 4: by a catastrophic explosion or a natural occurrence like a

901
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 4: tsunami or something, and that it didn't.

902
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: Happen, And you were still in the group when this happened.

903
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 4: Yes, we had moved to Spokane at that point and

904
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 4: we've been here since twenty twelve.

905
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 1: So what did you think, what did I.

906
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 4: Think, well, I had allowed myself to stay on the

907
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 4: wagon basically, and once that didn't happen, because I was like,

908
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 4: oh man, if New York explodes, I am so on board,

909
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 4: I am so anostic.

910
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: I am Yeah.

911
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 4: There was this push pull with the skeptical brain in

912
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 4: me that wouldn't quite shut the fuck up. And plus

913
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 4: the sexual aspect I was having so many problems with,

914
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 4: and the shame and the suffering aspect, and like all

915
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 4: of this is a weight, and all of our responsibilities

916
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 4: as missionaries to uphold the school and to take care

917
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 4: of these people and take care of people in a

918
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 4: way that I am not. I cannot do that. Like

919
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 4: I'm not trained as a psychologist. I'm just a person.

920
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 4: And so these people's well being spiritual and mental and

921
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 4: emotional well being I'm in charge of. And even though

922
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 4: at that point I was like in my really late thirties,

923
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 4: it's like I still wasn't you know, Sure I've matured,

924
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 4: but I'm not prepared to take care of people in

925
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 4: this way. So I was wanting in and out and

926
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 4: in and out and in and out. But I also

927
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 4: knew that if I left the school, if I left

928
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,919
Speaker 4: the teaching I'd have to leave my husband because there's

929
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 4: no way a missionary couple stays together if one of

930
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 4: them is like I'm out right. I witnessed lots of

931
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 4: divorces just on the public and the first chamber level,

932
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 4: Like people would split up because like one person was

933
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 4: in and the other one was out. But like, how

934
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 4: do you have sex with somebody when you know there's

935
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 4: talking about such a personal aspect of someone's life? And

936
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 4: how do you accept with someone that isn't interested in

937
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 4: the set having sex the way that you are? That

938
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 4: should be a combined thing, right.

939
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 1: Side note? Isn't it bad for men's bodies? Like doesn't

940
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: it put them at a higher risk for cancer or

941
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: something if they never orgasm? There's like something. Oh no,

942
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,879
Speaker 1: it found men who ejaculated the most had a twenty

943
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: percent lower chance of prostate cancer versus those who ejaculated

944
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 1: for us then times a month. It is real, guys,

945
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: It's real, just a health thing. A side note, I

946
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: love how much you from the beginning, just like loved

947
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: justin like and you were like stay, You're like a

948
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: ride or die?

949
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, we had known each other. He was from Pittsburgh.

950
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 4: I lived and grew up in Colorado. We met in Colorado,

951
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 4: and there was something weird about the two of us

952
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 4: that it couldn't quite fit it together at that time

953
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 4: because it was always someone was in the way, some

954
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 4: other guys, some other women, and so it was like, well,

955
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 4: we'll just stay in contact, you know. So this is

956
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 4: before pagers. We would we would email each other and

957
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 4: sometimes because we got we both got really transient with

958
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 4: our young adult lives, like he went off to California

959
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 4: to being a rock band and I went off to

960
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 4: New Zealand for a while, and we would write each

961
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 4: other's parents wow, because they were going anywhere all over

962
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 4: the place.

963
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 5: That's fine.

964
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 4: And I very much had this weird affinity. There's no

965
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 4: one else in the entire my existence that I've met

966
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 4: that I feel as close to as normal as okay,

967
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 4: and my body and my sense of myself as with

968
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 4: justin Like there's no one else. Yeah, And I don't

969
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 4: know why or how I got that lucky, if God exists,

970
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 4: thank you, Like I you know, I have lots of

971
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 4: questions about that now. But beside the point, like I

972
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 4: don't know whatever it brought us together, because yeah, adore him.

973
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: It's miraculous. That you guys made it through this thing.

974
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: So I guess I'm wondering, like how did you first

975
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,320
Speaker 1: start like talking about hmm, maybe this is kind of weird,

976
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 1: like what was that?

977
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 4: Like, well, for me, kind of one of the nails

978
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 4: in the coffin one there's several, was the twenty fifteen thing, like, oh,

979
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 4: it didn't happen. And the story that got pushed around.

980
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 4: The excuse was that, oh, because there's enough gnostics on

981
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 4: the planet right now, Oh god, there was enough good

982
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 4: juju that I didn't you know, So again like he

983
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 4: had a subjective experience that might have just been for

984
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 4: him to learn something about I don't know, exploding buildings.

985
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 1: There's always an explanation, there's always.

986
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 4: An explain but that was kind of sent around as

987
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 4: like an objective thing. And so that's one aspect. So

988
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 4: we had moved from Portland to Spokane and left this

989
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 4: Portland school and the care of a gentleman who moved

990
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 4: from Australia to be the new missionary there. Kind of

991
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 4: very quickly there were red floss But because we were

992
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 4: committed to leaving and we had brought him over, he

993
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 4: was like, Okay, I guess we'll just go with this.

994
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 4: He was claiming he was awake completely and that he

995
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,280
Speaker 4: was sacrificing himself by being here on the planet still longer.

996
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so that's yeah. So he ended up dating

997
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 4: one woman and then dating another one and very quickly,

998
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 4: like he brought this the first woman over from the

999
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,439
Speaker 4: East coast and dated her for about like a month

1000
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,280
Speaker 4: and was like and then started dating one of the students.

1001
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,959
Speaker 4: And that first person left and told us like, he's

1002
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 4: fucked up, and we were like, no, he's not, he's fine.

1003
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 4: And so they ended up having a child. So I

1004
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 4: guess alchemy doesn't work all the time. And then the

1005
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 4: threads really fell apart. He was having an affair with

1006
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,960
Speaker 4: one of the women and attempting another affair with two others.

1007
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 4: Oh no, And this is the part that really broke

1008
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 4: my heart. Wasn't just that there was abuse and he

1009
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 4: ended up being this sociopath essentially, I don't know. He

1010
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 4: was just awful and deluded and taking advantage of his

1011
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 4: place of power and abusing the women there, even by

1012
00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 4: in my opinion, even by trying to seduce other women

1013
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 4: while he's having an affair and being married, Like even

1014
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 4: though he didn't physically have an affair with the other

1015
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 4: two women. Just the fact that you're in this such

1016
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 4: a great place of power and everybody is in their

1017
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:32,479
Speaker 4: spiritual well being in you. You are the director, and

1018
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 4: they're giving themselves over. Maybe not physically yet, but like

1019
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 4: that's still just awful.

1020
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and these.

1021
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 4: Were people who were our students. So it's like we

1022
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 4: left the kids with an awful babysitter. Like our level,

1023
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 4: our sense of responsibility of this was so extreme, and

1024
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 4: so we wanted to come to Portland to help and

1025
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 4: take care of them, and we were told not to

1026
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 4: because we were too attached. And really it really like

1027
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 4: it really told by who. We were told by the

1028
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 4: Seattle couple who came down. The Seattle couple includes and

1029
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 4: I say, a couple missionaries, the couple that ran the

1030
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 4: Seattle school. The wife of that couple was a mental

1031
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:20,760
Speaker 4: health counselor. There's several mental health counselors on the West

1032
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 4: Coast that are still in noses. I cannot fathom. Yeah,

1033
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:28,879
Speaker 4: it's weird, it's really weird. I don't know what their

1034
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 4: cognitive dissonance is to allow themselves to be in something

1035
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:34,279
Speaker 4: that's cruel. So they came down to take care of

1036
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 4: the students. And basically what they did was they tried

1037
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:40,280
Speaker 4: to find a scapegoat and protect the optics of noses.

1038
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 4: And that's my take on it. I don't think that

1039
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 4: was their intention. I think that was their intention was

1040
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 4: to make sure everybody was fine. But let's not make

1041
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 4: too big a deal of this. Let's just calm down,

1042
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 4: let's not be reactive, and let's just and for me, like,

1043
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 4: I wanted to go there, and I wanted to scream,

1044
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 4: and I wanted to and I wanted to validate their

1045
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 4: pain and their experience and shame him because he was

1046
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 4: the fucking one that was responsible. Yeah, he had broken

1047
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 4: this woman that he had the actual affair with because

1048
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 4: he was telling her as he's having sex with her,

1049
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 4: Maybe not in the moment, but he's telling her that

1050
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 4: he's cleaning up her karma so that she won't have

1051
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 4: to go to hell.

1052
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, by having sex with her, he

1053
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: married somebody else. Hole.

1054
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 4: If he had not had a child here in the

1055
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 4: States with the woman that was his wife, was because

1056
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 4: everything fell apart for him in many ways, I would

1057
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 4: have reported him, like I was that angry, but he

1058
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,439
Speaker 4: had a kid, and I wasn't going to go down

1059
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 4: that path.

1060
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:45,879
Speaker 3: So it's his life just destroyed. Now.

1061
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 4: He's such a narcissist. I know a little bit because

1062
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 4: I still am in contact with his wife. I mean,

1063
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 4: he's such a narcissist that he's fine, He's going to

1064
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,760
Speaker 4: always be fine. Like he's such a deluded human being.

1065
00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 4: He's no longer in gnosis and he's no longer teaching.

1066
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 4: But the students were given the choice like do you

1067
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 4: still want Davin to teach you? Which I'm like, oh

1068
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 4: my god, oh, how do you do that? Like we're

1069
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 4: going to send away our teacher who's been telling us

1070
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 4: he's awake. How do you put that on the students

1071
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 4: to choose like that? That's like, that's like saying your

1072
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 4: dad who's been insisting you like stay, you know, do

1073
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 4: you want him to go to jail?

1074
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 1: Right right right?

1075
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 2: To me?

1076
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,279
Speaker 4: That's what it feels like. Yeah, but that's me. And

1077
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 4: so that was in twenty sixteen, and things are really

1078
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 4: following apart for me. I'm still in it, but I'm like,

1079
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 4: I can't do this anymore. And I continue going to

1080
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 4: the Buddhist retreats rather than the Gnostic retreats, And oh, yeah,

1081
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 4: ell yas, yeah, yeah, and they would ask where's Lynn

1082
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 4: and Justin was like, eh, you know. And then in

1083
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 4: twenty eighteen, I had a really great meditation retreat with

1084
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 4: some of the Buddhists and I came home and it

1085
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 4: was like, I can't I can't do it anymore. I

1086
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,240
Speaker 4: can't pretend. There's so much pain and so much shame

1087
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,439
Speaker 4: and so much resentment and so much regret that I

1088
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:14,919
Speaker 4: can't possibly do this anymore. And that meant probably leaving Justin.

1089
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 4: And so I talked to him and it wasn't an ultimatum.

1090
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 4: It was just like, sweetie, if this is your path,

1091
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 4: this is your path, please please please stay on the path,

1092
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 4: if this is what you want. But I am gonna

1093
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 4: have to go. And that means I can't be in

1094
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 4: the house. I can't be with the books, I can't

1095
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 4: be with the vestment, I can't be in the temple,

1096
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 4: like I can't do any of it. And so we

1097
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,440
Speaker 4: had been in talks with that, he and I like

1098
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 4: what would it mean for me to leave? What would

1099
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:45,919
Speaker 4: it mean for him to stay? And we were kind

1100
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 4: of in this limbo of not quite making a decision

1101
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,919
Speaker 4: because we care very much for each other. I did

1102
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:57,799
Speaker 4: call the people in Seattle and another woman that I

1103
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,759
Speaker 4: didn't have to leave officially, I didn't have to go

1104
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 4: and tell the director and you know, but I called

1105
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:05,720
Speaker 4: these people because they've been in my lives for years,

1106
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 4: you know, over a decade at this point, and I

1107
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 4: told them that I was leaving, and they were very

1108
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 4: condescending about it. Uh sweet, but very condescending, kind of

1109
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 4: like pat me on the head kind of thing, like, oh.

1110
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 3: Oh, you're missing you're missing out.

1111
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1112
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1113
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 4: Like the woman from Seattle was like, isn't it great

1114
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 4: how much nosis has grown in a fault and how

1115
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 4: much kinder it is. And I'm like, what coolater.

1116
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 5: Are you looking?

1117
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1118
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know they both were like, well, I

1119
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 4: guess we won't talk to you anymore. So that's neat.

1120
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 4: So all this time, all the friendship just gone out

1121
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 4: the window, right fun, And so it felt like free fall.

1122
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 4: It felt like I was damned and I was surely

1123
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 4: going to go to hell because I was saying no

1124
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 4: to the app. You know, they're very clear that this

1125
00:57:55,560 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 4: is the path, right Yeah. And so I found a

1126
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 4: book online. I'm like, I have to do something, and

1127
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 4: I don't know if I need therapy. I can't afford therapy.

1128
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 4: So I found this book and it was like leaving

1129
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 4: the cult, and I'm like, great, I'll get it. And

1130
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 4: it asked basic, open ended questions evaluating the group that

1131
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 4: you were in, and I got to like really pull

1132
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 4: the sleeping skeptical, critical brain into action again and looking

1133
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,919
Speaker 4: at the good and the bad. And there's way more,

1134
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 4: way more cons than pros and noses. So I did

1135
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 4: the work in that book and I don't know if

1136
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 4: it was a good thing or a bad thing, but

1137
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 4: Facebook and social media is what it is. So I

1138
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 4: posted something on Facebook about how this was going to

1139
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 4: be my life now and I didn't criticize nosis. It

1140
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:49,480
Speaker 4: wasn't like fuck those people and Fargus sucks and this

1141
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 4: sam I own. None of it was just like, this

1142
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 4: is my life now. I have a new life. Two

1143
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 4: days later, Justin was kicked out of the cult.

1144
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:58,959
Speaker 1: Oh no, no.

1145
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 4: One contacts us except for one person. One person contacts us.

1146
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 4: No one called to check in, no one called to

1147
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 4: like check like, oh is this are you leaving too? Like,

1148
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 4: no no questions, just kicked him out. So while my

1149
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 4: process has been one of rage and burn the house

1150
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 4: down and fuck all this and Justin's has been one

1151
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 4: of grief and loss.

1152
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: Hmmm, yeah, that's hard.

1153
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,439
Speaker 4: It's been an interesting dance, like we're in a really

1154
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 4: good space now. It's been about three years, so almost

1155
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 4: four I guess, And so it's been an interesting dance

1156
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 4: to watch how my anger and rage has come down

1157
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 4: as I'm leaving and healing, and his has kind of buffed.

1158
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 1: Up a little bit right right, because it's like, oh,

1159
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: this is fucked. Yeah, so you had a whole pandemic

1160
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 1: to sit with that rage.

1161
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 4: There's a lot of bad little that I was able

1162
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 4: to continue working with masks and stuff like I was

1163
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 4: able to and Justin was an central employees so he

1164
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 4: didn't really take you a whole lot of time off.

1165
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 4: I was down for two months and then they were like,

1166
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 4: if you follow these parameters, you can come back to

1167
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 4: work and touch people.

1168
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 3: Right nice. Is the cult still going strong?

1169
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 4: Like, oh yeah, for sure?

1170
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 3: Oh is it growing?

1171
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 4: That I wonder about because that same month that I

1172
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:24,479
Speaker 4: called and told the women that I was leaving, two

1173
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 4: other things happened that definitely certified yes, leave leave now

1174
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 4: and never look back. There was a missionary woman with

1175
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 4: her husband in Boulder, and she committed suicide. And she

1176
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 4: might have had emotional problems I doubt seriously knows has

1177
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 4: helped her, probably made it worse. I would bet money

1178
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 4: that her reasons for ending her own life were related

1179
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 4: to the Gnostic doctrine. This is a very young couple,

1180
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 4: so they're in their early twenties. The husband of that

1181
01:00:56,720 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 4: couple grieved for about a month and then started dating

1182
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 4: his student. Oh God, so super healthy ways to deal

1183
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 4: with big, major changes in your life. And we are

1184
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 4: taught in nosis not to grieve the loss of a

1185
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,920
Speaker 4: loved one. That you are harming them if you cry

1186
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 4: and have big emotions about there, you can be a

1187
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 4: little bit sad. Again, you can be a little bit sad, yes,

1188
01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 4: because you're harming them and their process of death, so

1189
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 4: they can't let go. You're you're still staying attacked so

1190
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 4: they can't.

1191
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're harming them after they're dead by being said, so,

1192
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 1: you're just not allowed to feel any of them feelings

1193
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: or any of your physical.

1194
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 4: Happiness. You can feel happiness, especially devotionally. That's you know,

1195
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 4: that's sharp. You should be angry. You can be frustrated,

1196
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 4: but you can't be angry, you know, like you have

1197
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 4: to be in this level of emotion where you can

1198
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 4: respond to it rather than react to which isn't human

1199
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 4: that's not like maybe again, maybe if you are a

1200
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,680
Speaker 4: monk and sequestered from humanity and like that's your purpose

1201
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 4: and you're working on yourself.

1202
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 1: Like sure, even then monks feel feelings, they just deal

1203
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 1: with them differently.

1204
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 4: They just think that's the The idea is that you

1205
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 4: have emotions, but you deal with them differently. But you're

1206
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 4: talking about the teaching is brought to people who have

1207
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 4: you know, day one, you're learning about how you shouldn't

1208
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 4: have these particular emotions or you know, so like, oh.

1209
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, the therapized like little person in me is like

1210
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 1: everybody has the feelings and the more that we deny them,

1211
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: the more the bigger that they get, you know, Like

1212
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: it's just like all of these things.

1213
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:47,920
Speaker 4: The problems, like people spiritualize their repression.

1214
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 1: Right exactly exactly, and it's so harmful. It's so harmful.

1215
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 1: And the fact that there could be therapists who are

1216
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: siscribing to this, well mean like what are they telling

1217
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 1: their their patients then or their client it's so.

1218
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 4: Olivia, Olivia, I'll say her name I'm trying to be

1219
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 4: very careful. I'm not saying names, but I think Olivia

1220
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 4: should be honored in that I don't know all of

1221
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 4: the details of her story and why she killed herself

1222
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 4: and her husband who I don't remember his name, you know, like,

1223
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:19,520
Speaker 4: I can't imagine he being very healthy having made those choices.

1224
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 4: Maybe he's an asshole for making those choices, but also

1225
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,520
Speaker 4: maybe he's just not dealing with his grief, Like I

1226
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 4: don't know his inner motivations.

1227
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: Of pain and has probably is I'm just possessing it.

1228
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, because you're supposed to be hooked up, because you

1229
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 4: can't waken your consciousness unless you're having sex. So all

1230
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 4: of this pressure, all of these yes, so yes, yes, right,

1231
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 4: So she killed herself and I don't know the details why.

1232
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 4: And then the other thing that happened was a woman

1233
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 4: in Seattle came to the missionary couple, the wife of

1234
01:03:55,040 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 4: that missionary couple in Seattle, and told her that her

1235
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 4: husband was raping her on a regular base because the

1236
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 4: nights that she wouldn't want to have sex, you're supposed

1237
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 4: to be having sex as often as possible. She didn't

1238
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,440
Speaker 4: want to have sex, and so she was repressing the

1239
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 4: fact that he wasn't having non consensual sex with her,

1240
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 4: not ejaculating, but having non consensual sex with her, because

1241
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 4: that's what you're supposed to do. I mean, maybe not

1242
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 4: the non consensual part, but she's supposed to suffer. Again,

1243
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 4: she's supposed to be voluntarily. Yes, So she finally couldn't

1244
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:30,120
Speaker 4: take it anymore, and that whole story got kind of

1245
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 4: spilled out into the grape vine. But I was still

1246
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 4: kind of I had a tether to the grape vine,

1247
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 4: so I found out those stories. I'm no longer attached.

1248
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 4: I don't find out anything anymore. And if I remember correctly,

1249
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 4: I think she the missionary wife became the counselor for

1250
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 4: that young woman, which I find ethically questionable that she

1251
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 4: should have had a neutral source rather than someone who

1252
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 4: is promoting nosis necessarily.

1253
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, this isn't that important, but I'm just like a

1254
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:04,000
Speaker 1: little bit confused about the hierarchy of it. So, like, sure,

1255
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 1: when you guys left, what level were you at?

1256
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 4: We were missionaries? Mission we weren't we were missionary. Yeah,

1257
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 4: So the hierarchy is you have the students members, You

1258
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 4: have the students, and you have the missionaries, and then

1259
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 4: you have a couple of directors, but within that missionary

1260
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 4: level you have influencers. So you've got the clique missionaries

1261
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 4: that are getting work. They understand the work, and so

1262
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 4: they're promoting certain ideas and they get you know, they're

1263
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 4: basically just people who who grock the teaching and can

1264
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 4: talk articulately about it and can perform in front of

1265
01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 4: an audience.

1266
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: Right, and who decides who becomes that?

1267
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 4: It just kind of happens organically. There's decisions. It's that

1268
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 4: just happens in group mechanics.

1269
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, some.

1270
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 4: People get more popular. It's high school, but.

1271
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: It's not like an actual structure of like these people

1272
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 1: are above. Okay, no, no, got it.

1273
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 4: So happens kind of organically when.

1274
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 1: You were being told what to do or what not

1275
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 1: to do, that was coming from the like other missionaries

1276
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 1: or directly.

1277
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 4: Pretty much pretty much because we would meet on a

1278
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 4: fairly the missionaries would try to meet once a year

1279
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 4: nationally and internationally once a year. So ideally you were

1280
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 4: required sort of like if you were broke, asked poor,

1281
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 4: you didn't have to come to these retreats, but you

1282
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,439
Speaker 4: were pretty much required, you know, part of your job

1283
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 4: description basically was to come to these retreats, the national

1284
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,640
Speaker 4: retreat and then the international retreat.

1285
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 1: Were they fun?

1286
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 4: Oh?

1287
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 3: No, one's coming, it's not fun.

1288
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 1: Listen. The next time retreat seemed really fun. Other than

1289
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:42,360
Speaker 1: the abuse.

1290
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 4: I hated them because a the meditation instruction was awful,

1291
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:51,760
Speaker 4: like just just the basic practical like it was always awful,

1292
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 4: Like it just sucked. But then everybody's there sort of

1293
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 4: they would never admit to it, but everyone's competing, like

1294
01:06:57,720 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 4: how many classes are you teaching? How many students do

1295
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 4: you have? You know, how many retreats are you putting on?

1296
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 4: To ever take a vacation? Like all this implicit like

1297
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 4: expectation is being placed and talked about amongst the missionaries,

1298
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 4: And yeah, sure, that's probably what you're supposed to be

1299
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 4: working on and not worrying about whether you're keeping up

1300
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:19,479
Speaker 4: with the Joneses or whatever. But like that's sort of

1301
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 4: what the mechanics became, Like I that's what group dynamics

1302
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 4: is about.

1303
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:25,479
Speaker 3: Like yeah, so.

1304
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 4: It's a results driven it's a results driven religion. And

1305
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 4: you have the impending doom of armageddon coming, like we

1306
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:36,920
Speaker 4: don't know when that's gonna happen, but we sure as

1307
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 4: hell want to be good gnostics, because it's not gnostics

1308
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:42,919
Speaker 4: that win heaven. It's the good gnostics who are doing

1309
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 4: the work properly. And the world is going to go

1310
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 4: to smithereens and then good gnostics are going to inherit

1311
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 4: the earth. The Golden Age will.

1312
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 1: Begin, of course.

1313
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1314
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 1: In my head, I was like, well, retreat, maybe they

1315
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: have like good food and dancing, but it depends on

1316
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: where it was. No, no dancing, no dancing too joyful. Yeah, okay,

1317
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 1: and we'll wrap up in a second. But I'm just

1318
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 1: on the website and I'm looking at contact and there's

1319
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 1: a different contact page for each country, So there are

1320
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:16,640
Speaker 1: new do you say new nastics or just gnostics gnostics.

1321
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 4: My particular group is calling it something else now, you know,

1322
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:23,519
Speaker 4: And that's fine, okay, gnostics in general, and it doesn't

1323
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:27,320
Speaker 4: have a lot to do with the archaic gnostics of

1324
01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 4: old Christianity. There's not a lot of similarities, right, okay.

1325
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 1: Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, Columbia, Costa Rica, deutsch Land, Germany, Spain, Italy, Mexico,

1326
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:44,640
Speaker 1: New Zealand, Puerto Rico, uk Us and Uruguay. That is

1327
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,679
Speaker 1: a lot of countries. It's very surprising for something we've

1328
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 1: never heard of, and like many people do think are

1329
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 1: in that.

1330
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 4: The last international retreat I went to, it was a

1331
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 4: lot of people, but you know, there was maybe five

1332
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 4: hundred people in the building. But that's a guess. Not

1333
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 4: everybody can come because they can't afford it.

1334
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 1: And but that's not regular members though, or is it.

1335
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:11,200
Speaker 4: That's yeah, Internationally the students are allowed to go. Okay,

1336
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:14,720
Speaker 4: nationally is meant for missionaries only.

1337
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 1: Got it, got it okay, So that's pretty So it's

1338
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 1: pretty small. It's in the hundreds, maybe maybe the thousands.

1339
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 4: Maybe the thousands. New members are all the time, so

1340
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 4: howlong they stay. I don't know, you know, right, and

1341
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:30,840
Speaker 4: now I don't have any fathoming of what the groups

1342
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,320
Speaker 4: you're like now it's almost been four years since we left.

1343
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:39,479
Speaker 1: So what is your biggest takeaway from this experience? What

1344
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 1: do you what have you learned?

1345
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:43,760
Speaker 4: Well, you know, that kind of leads into the you know,

1346
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 4: how is our life now? Kind of There's been a

1347
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:48,639
Speaker 4: lot of healing. I've been in therapy with a couple

1348
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:52,200
Speaker 4: of different mental health counselors that one dealt with trauma

1349
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 4: and another is dealing specifically with religious trauma. Oh good,

1350
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 4: I learned, but not everything awful. Like when I left,

1351
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 4: it was just everything was just a solid fucking mess

1352
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:08,719
Speaker 4: and everything was awful and I wanted to hate everything

1353
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 4: about it, and that wasn't constructed either. It made sense

1354
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:17,760
Speaker 4: at the time. So being able to balance it with

1355
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:21,639
Speaker 4: what were positives and gnosis and what were the absolute

1356
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:26,400
Speaker 4: by sure negatives has been good. I learned the most

1357
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:29,040
Speaker 4: to be able to see the world in a different way.

1358
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 4: Granted I'm doing that differently now. I don't feel like

1359
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:34,639
Speaker 4: I'm in as much as state of delusion. I will

1360
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:37,160
Speaker 4: say this whole experience has given me a lot of

1361
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:41,719
Speaker 4: compassion for like the people in QAnon, Like, yeah, it's

1362
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 4: so enticing and so magical, and so in the beginning,

1363
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 4: you know, it's like, oh my god, all these things

1364
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 4: that are connecting and I never saw the world this way,

1365
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:52,639
Speaker 4: and oh my god, I can tell who the bad

1366
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 4: people are now, and you know, so it gives me

1367
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 4: some empathy for people that are also in a cult.

1368
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 4: The end of the month, I'm being interviewed for recovering

1369
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:06,479
Speaker 4: from religion to hopefully be a hotline person for people.

1370
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:07,560
Speaker 3: Oh awesome.

1371
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:11,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, so doing that, I'm going to write a chapter

1372
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 4: for a book and also recovering from religion. So they're

1373
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:18,240
Speaker 4: doing cool chapter by chapter. Each chapter is a different

1374
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 4: religion or sect.

1375
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 3: Awesome.

1376
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:23,759
Speaker 1: I want to make a movie recommendation just for everyone.

1377
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:26,800
Speaker 1: It's not for healing or anything. I just a couple

1378
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:29,599
Speaker 1: of my friends made a movie over the pandemic called

1379
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 1: Something in the Dirt. They just made it themselves in

1380
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: the pandemic. It just went to Sundance. It's so cool.

1381
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:38,800
Speaker 1: Oh really, but it captures two men who like fall

1382
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:43,599
Speaker 1: into sort of conspiratorial thinking. It's like the movie version

1383
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 1: of that meme that you referenced earlier, where they're like

1384
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:49,760
Speaker 1: making connections and making connections. Yeah, and the way that

1385
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 1: it ends to me, I mean, I don't want to

1386
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 1: spoil it, but it basically just like captures how that

1387
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 1: kind of thinking never really leads us to the like

1388
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,640
Speaker 1: holy grail of an answer that we're thinking it's going to.

1389
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 1: It kind of just leads us to more and more

1390
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 1: and more questions because it's ultimately just like noticing coincidences

1391
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:18,600
Speaker 1: patterns exactly. They're fun, they feel magical, they feel exciting.

1392
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:19,759
Speaker 1: It feels like it gives.

1393
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 4: Making sense of the world. It is weird. Humanity is weird. Yeah,

1394
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:29,600
Speaker 4: some people nice and some people assholes.

1395
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 1: Like that's a question, right, Chaos sucks men. We don't

1396
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 1: want to we don't want to live in chaos. It's

1397
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:35,759
Speaker 1: not fun.

1398
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:40,559
Speaker 4: But I will say I will say one other I

1399
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:44,040
Speaker 4: so appreciate what you guys are doing because like you

1400
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:48,680
Speaker 4: and other podcasts are just like the golden nugget of

1401
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,120
Speaker 4: like when I needed it the most, finding out how

1402
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:56,880
Speaker 4: other people articulated their experiences helped me to be like, oh,

1403
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 4: that's not the same thing, but it's so similar and

1404
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:04,719
Speaker 4: I can now like especially like the subjective experience being

1405
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 4: treated as an objective truth decoding. The Gurus did a

1406
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 4: big deep dive on Jordan Peterson, who like he's just

1407
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:16,840
Speaker 4: a fowl. And if you listen to Jordan Peterson, it's

1408
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 4: like listening to a Gnostic lecture, like everything is this

1409
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 4: absolute insurance and certainty. Everything is so certain and none

1410
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 4: of it's has to be. And the other thing, he

1411
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:32,920
Speaker 4: speaks so outside his scope of practice, like he has

1412
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 4: to be able to speak on everything and anstics. All

1413
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 4: the Gnostics I know have a fucking answer for everything,

1414
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,040
Speaker 4: even if they have had no study in it at all.

1415
01:13:42,280 --> 01:13:48,120
Speaker 1: None, right, kind of like the being yeah, yeah, oh,

1416
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 1: I hate that. I hate that authoritative tone about things

1417
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:54,280
Speaker 1: that that people don't know anything about, which is like

1418
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 1: the entire Internet this past week pertaining to you.

1419
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 4: Yes, but I get it.

1420
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:01,920
Speaker 1: We all are just trying to like learn and trying

1421
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 1: to look like we know what we're talking about. But yeah,

1422
01:14:04,280 --> 01:14:05,719
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson is not your guru.

1423
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:12,360
Speaker 4: No no, But like listening to Conspirtuality podcast or the

1424
01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:15,599
Speaker 4: Quanon Anonymous Guys or you guys, like, like it's been

1425
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 4: really helpful, Like it's been such I think because there's

1426
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 4: like such a maybe because of the pandemic, Like lately

1427
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 4: there's been more information about control groups and cults and

1428
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 4: QAnon people and like like we're sort of in a

1429
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:32,559
Speaker 4: phase of like pulling that stuff apart. And I think

1430
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,240
Speaker 4: it's really important because like the cult can be a

1431
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:38,000
Speaker 4: cult of too, like it can just be a controlling

1432
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 4: relationship that you're in. And to be able to have

1433
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:45,680
Speaker 4: dialogue about what someone else's experiences, even if it's subjective,

1434
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,760
Speaker 4: like this was my experience. Not all gnostics are going

1435
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 4: to have this experience. Some of them will love this,

1436
01:14:51,320 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 4: of course, great yea. Blessings to them, right, but not

1437
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:57,960
Speaker 4: everybody's going to have that experience. And because we're told

1438
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:01,280
Speaker 4: we should suffer, I just stay in longer than they

1439
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:01,599
Speaker 4: need to.

1440
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I'm anti suffering. Just gonna put that out there.

1441
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 1: Think suffering is bad.

1442
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:13,920
Speaker 4: Discipline is one thing, suffering is another.

1443
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:18,480
Speaker 1: Sure, delay your gratification. But like life should be generally

1444
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:19,600
Speaker 1: like okay.

1445
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:23,520
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, you shouldn't have to anyway.

1446
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:26,200
Speaker 1: Go ahead, yeah yeah, yeah, no, whatever, that was it?

1447
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:29,760
Speaker 1: Nothing interesting. Thank you so much for talking to us.

1448
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 1: This has been really incredible.

1449
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for talking to me.

1450
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 1: Are you on social media? Is there anywhere people can

1451
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 1: find you?

1452
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 4: You know, it's just me. I'm Lynn. I have an

1453
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:42,360
Speaker 4: Instagram account. You know, it's just short.

1454
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:45,160
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you so.

1455
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:47,639
Speaker 4: Much, No, thank you. I really appreciate the time.

1456
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:51,160
Speaker 1: Okay, y'all. Megan, it's that time of the day now

1457
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:55,479
Speaker 1: where I ask you if you were exposed to a

1458
01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:59,639
Speaker 1: group like this, maybe say via a person you really liked,

1459
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:02,960
Speaker 1: and they told you that lucid dreaming was one of

1460
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 1: the keys to spiritual enlightenment, what do you think would

1461
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:07,720
Speaker 1: you be intrigued?

1462
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 3: Yeah? I would go full in.

1463
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:11,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me.

1464
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 3: Why, Because I love lucid dreaming.

1465
01:16:13,120 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 2: I love anything to do with the meeting deeper parts

1466
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:19,799
Speaker 2: of yourself. I got really into lucid dreaming for a minute.

1467
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 2: All I did was read a pamphlet and it was

1468
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:24,639
Speaker 2: just like check your watch throughout the day and then

1469
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 2: do it in your dream and the watch won't work.

1470
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:29,679
Speaker 2: And I started doing that and just lucid dreaming all

1471
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:31,760
Speaker 2: the time. It was so strange.

1472
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:34,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, really, and then I stopped doing it.

1473
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:37,479
Speaker 3: It was very odd, but I just love stuff like that.

1474
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:39,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I was only I mean we said

1475
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:41,400
Speaker 1: this earlier, but I think I was only into it

1476
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:44,839
Speaker 1: because it was an opportunity to get to have sex

1477
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 1: when I wasn't allowed to in my real physical life.

1478
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:51,559
Speaker 1: So once that no longer was an issue spoiler, you guys,

1479
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 1: I have sex. I'm not a virgin, then it no

1480
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:56,400
Speaker 1: longer seemed as necessary.

1481
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 3: That's the funniest thing I've ever heard.

1482
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:01,160
Speaker 5: The laugh Wow wow.

1483
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:01,679
Speaker 3: Okay.

1484
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:04,600
Speaker 1: Even now, I'm like, yeah, I think that would intrigue me.

1485
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:06,479
Speaker 1: I would want to I would want to go to it,

1486
01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:09,400
Speaker 1: maybe like half jokingly, but just also kind of wanting

1487
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:11,679
Speaker 1: to see what it was all about, because there's something

1488
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 1: inherently mystical seeming about being able to wake up while

1489
01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:16,400
Speaker 1: you're not awake.

1490
01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's weird. It's yeah, the life within the life.

1491
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:23,839
Speaker 1: There's something sort of logical about conserving your orgasms, although

1492
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:27,720
Speaker 1: I that extreme of a degree I definitely would struggle with.

1493
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:28,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1494
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:31,880
Speaker 2: I also think though that it especially for women, orgasms

1495
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 2: move out trauma and are really healing, so I don't

1496
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:36,639
Speaker 2: think they're conserving thing.

1497
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:38,439
Speaker 1: I don't know. There was a period in my life

1498
01:17:38,439 --> 01:17:40,439
Speaker 1: where I got really interested in the idea this is

1499
01:17:40,479 --> 01:17:41,160
Speaker 1: gonna be team.

1500
01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:47,760
Speaker 2: I got really interested in solving crimes after not having

1501
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:49,560
Speaker 2: an orgasm for months.

1502
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:50,919
Speaker 5: That's what I imagine.

1503
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 1: There's a term called ejaculation, and there's like a I

1504
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:58,400
Speaker 1: can't even remember now. It's like a tantra thing, but

1505
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:00,880
Speaker 1: it was like the male orgasm when the semen goes

1506
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 1: back inside. It conserves your energy and you have more power, right,

1507
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 1: And whereas I think the way that I think of

1508
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:10,519
Speaker 1: a female orgasm is like, no, we don't get these enough,

1509
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:12,680
Speaker 1: and we need to have more of them because we

1510
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 1: don't lean up. That release doesn't the more the better

1511
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:19,439
Speaker 1: happens organically and in our sleep as men. Although I

1512
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:20,679
Speaker 1: do I have had sleep orgasms.

1513
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 3: Pleasure process is trauma.

1514
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:25,880
Speaker 1: It's so true. And as Esther Perel says, sex is

1515
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:30,320
Speaker 1: the antidote to death, like eroticism is the opposite of death.

1516
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:32,960
Speaker 1: It's how we assert our life force.

1517
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:34,640
Speaker 3: That's really cool. I like that.

1518
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:37,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, well, well settled.

1519
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:38,240
Speaker 3: That'll do.

1520
01:18:38,920 --> 01:18:41,040
Speaker 2: Thanks for spending another week with us, you guys, We

1521
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:43,639
Speaker 2: can't wait to talk to you next week. For now,

1522
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:47,599
Speaker 2: remember to follow your gut watch up for red flags, and.

1523
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:51,879
Speaker 3: Never ever trust me. Bye.