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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcasts. My name is Kat

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Speaker 1: and if you are new to couch Talks and don't

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Speaker 1: know what it is exactly, it is the bonus episode

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Speaker 1: of You Need Therapy that comes out every Wednesday, where

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Speaker 1: I answer questions that listeners like you send to me

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Speaker 1: and you can send those to Katherine at therapy podcast

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Speaker 1: dot com. Now, as always, this podcast does not serve

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Speaker 1: as a replacement or substitute for any mental health services.

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Speaker 1: Even though I am a therapist and even though I'm

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Speaker 1: answering some questions that you guys send to me on here,

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Speaker 1: it does not actually serve as any kind of professional

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Speaker 1: advice or just mental health services in general, although we

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Speaker 1: always hope that these episodes can help you in some

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Speaker 1: way wherever you are, or maybe can help you in

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Speaker 1: the future. So usually we do one question a week

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Speaker 1: and I always keep them anonymous so you can feel

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Speaker 1: really safe sending in your questions.

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Speaker 2: And that is what we are going to do today.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to read the question and then we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: So here it is.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Kat, I was wondering if you could shed some

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Speaker 1: light and of course give me some questions to think

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Speaker 1: through this further background, I've been dating this guy for

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Speaker 1: a year and a half. We have lived together for

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Speaker 1: a while now, and we are not intimate at all.

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Speaker 1: I come from a history of guys who have used

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Speaker 1: intimacy as a way of measuring how attracted to me

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Speaker 1: they were. I guess it's how you would say it.

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Speaker 1: None of those relationships were healthy at all, but it's

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Speaker 1: just all I've ever known. Also, I come from a

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Speaker 1: very southern rural area Bible Belt. There is a lot

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Speaker 1: of shame around sex before marriage. But in the same token,

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Speaker 1: if no one wants you in that way, society.

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Speaker 2: Is saying that you're ugly.

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Speaker 1: It's hard for me to accept that we aren't physical

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Speaker 1: intimate and he has attracted to me. Neither of us

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Speaker 1: are virgins. We have been intimate before, but it's never

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Speaker 1: been a regular thing. I've cried about it and picked

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Speaker 1: fights over it regularly through the course of our relationship.

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Speaker 1: But I'm to the point that I'm done crying and

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Speaker 1: I'm looking for real solutions. I usually cry, we are

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Speaker 1: intimate a few days later, and then it immediately goes

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Speaker 1: back to nothing until I cry again. I will say

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Speaker 1: every other aspect of our relationship is wonderful. We talk

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Speaker 1: about our future often. This is really our only sore spot.

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Speaker 1: My question is, should your compatibility on physical intimacy be

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Speaker 1: a deal breaker? Do you have any ideas on how

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Speaker 1: to approach fixing the problem. At what point is it

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Speaker 1: okay to throw in the towel. I feel like I

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Speaker 1: have a pretty healthy libido and I'm definitely not used

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Speaker 1: to mind being higher than my partners. I'm twenty six

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Speaker 1: and he's twenty nine. I feel like we are too

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Speaker 1: young to have these issues. I've even asked him to

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Speaker 1: go to a doctor, but he thinks that's silly, of course. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so thank you first of all for that email in

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Speaker 1: this question. I'm actually really grateful that you're sharing this

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Speaker 1: and that you're able to be vulnerable in sharing this,

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Speaker 1: especially because there are, there is, and can be so

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Speaker 1: much shame wrapped up in talking about sex. And I

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Speaker 1: assume that you're not the only one who has wondered

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Speaker 1: something like this before. And like a lot of these questions,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I say this weekly, but there are

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Speaker 1: so many people that are going to benefit from your question,

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Speaker 1: which obviously I think it's fine for you to send

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Speaker 1: into question just because you want to know the answer,

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Speaker 1: But it's really powerful when you can take a step

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Speaker 1: that might allow somebody else to then take a step forward,

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Speaker 1: somebody that you might not even ever know. And so

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Speaker 1: I'm really grateful to you that you've set us up

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Speaker 1: to have hopefully a.

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Speaker 2: Very fruitful conversation on here.

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Speaker 1: So I want to put a disclaimer on here before

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Speaker 1: we get into this, other than the one that says

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Speaker 1: that this is not a substitute for mental health services,

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Speaker 1: that I'm not a physical intimacy I'm not a sex expert,

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Speaker 1: and so if you're looking for norms or just different

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Speaker 1: information around that, I'm not going to give that to you.

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Speaker 1: I think also norms can be somewhat problematic. But if

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Speaker 1: you're looking for some context and information around what to

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Speaker 1: expect from a healthy relationship regarding physical intimacy, there are.

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Speaker 2: Other people that I think could be really helpful to you.

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Speaker 1: One of those is Emily Nagoski, and she wrote the

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Speaker 1: book Come as You Are. I actually I'm going to

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Speaker 1: talk about something that I've learned from her later in

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Speaker 1: this episode, but I just want to put that out

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Speaker 1: there that there are other people that might be able

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Speaker 1: to also help give you some information that you don't

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Speaker 1: even know that you need right now.

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Speaker 2: However, what we're going to.

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Speaker 1: Do today is just create a conversation that might lead

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Speaker 1: you to some of your own answers. Now, my initial

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Speaker 1: thought while reading this email was, I guess I'm a

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Speaker 1: little confused on what it is that you really want

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Speaker 1: and why you want it.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to be more physically intimate with your

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Speaker 1: partner because you actually want that, that's something you long for,

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Speaker 1: or because you're having a hard time believing he's attracted

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Speaker 1: to you because of that lack of intimacy. So do

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Speaker 1: you want more intimacy because that's what you long for,

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Speaker 1: or do you want more intimacy because you are struggling

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Speaker 1: to understand how somebody can be attracted to you and

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Speaker 1: not be wanting to have sex with you all the time.

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Speaker 1: I think that that could be really helpful and super important,

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Speaker 1: because if the issue is more about you struggling to

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Speaker 1: get an old narrative out of your head versus not

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Speaker 1: being satisfied, I think we would be having.

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Speaker 2: Two different conversations.

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Speaker 1: Now, it also might be a little bit of both,

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Speaker 1: and I think a huge missing piece here that maybe

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Speaker 1: you have and you just didn't share it with me.

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Speaker 1: Is also how each of you view sex, what it is,

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Speaker 1: what role it plays in relationships, just the meaning behind it,

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Speaker 1: your own just experiences and your own stigmas that you

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Speaker 1: guys have created around sex. Because I mean, I hear

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Speaker 1: you saying you grow up in.

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Speaker 2: The Bible belt.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of dues and don'ts that come with

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Speaker 1: that around sex, and especially as a woman, it could

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Speaker 1: be very different from a man's perspective, and so that

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Speaker 1: can be something that could be really helpful is for

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Speaker 1: you just to like clarify how you view it, so

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Speaker 1: you're not taking his behaviors and sifting them through your

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Speaker 1: lens of sex and creating a meaning that does not

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Speaker 1: actually exist there and vice versa. Now, if sex is

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Speaker 1: used to measure how much a partner is attracted to you,

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Speaker 1: if that really feels true for you right now, there

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Speaker 1: could be a lot of power in the deconstruction of

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Speaker 1: some of these beliefs and narratives that might not sit

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Speaker 1: well with you anymore.

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Speaker 2: You might it might be one of those things.

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Speaker 1: That like, I feel that, but I actually don't think

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Speaker 1: that anymore, And so it could be really helpful to

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Speaker 1: identify where do those messages come from? Again, do I

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Speaker 1: even agree with those? And what is it that I'm

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Speaker 1: looking for? What is it that I'm longing for in

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Speaker 1: my desire to feel like my partner's attracted to me?

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Speaker 1: Do I want to feel special? Do I need to

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Speaker 1: feel desired important? Does that measure my worthiness? There can

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Speaker 1: be a lot more hidden inside of these stories that

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Speaker 1: you're making up around not having the level of intimacy

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Speaker 1: that either of you in quotes, really think you should

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Speaker 1: have or think you should want. My other question would

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Speaker 1: be are there other ways your partner shows their attraction

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Speaker 1: that maybe you're missing? Maybe he shows up in ways

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like love languages, Like your partner might

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Speaker 1: be doing these things that where he's like showing love

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Speaker 1: and appreciation and affection towards you, but that's not how

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Speaker 1: you receive it, and that's not how you've been taught

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Speaker 1: to view it, and so you're kind of like missing

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Speaker 1: each other in that. And when you have conversations about

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Speaker 1: sex and about the lack of your intimacy, something that

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Speaker 1: I'm curious about is what your partner actually says, like

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Speaker 1: how he responds to when you do get upset and

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Speaker 1: you cry and this topic comes up. Is it that

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Speaker 1: he doesn't want to have sex with you, that he

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to have sex in general, or again, maybe

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Speaker 1: he has some messages about sex and intimacy about how

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Speaker 1: you should engage in it, when, how often, and there

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Speaker 1: could be so much wrapped up in him that could

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Speaker 1: be helpful information for you. Now, whether that means you

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Speaker 1: can make this relationship work or not, I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: I think there's way more to that if you're both

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Speaker 1: willing to identify what it is that's creating the lack

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Speaker 1: of intimacy, and then you both can identify that it

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Speaker 1: is important to kind of work towards closing that gap.

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Speaker 1: I don't think think that you right now having a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a struggle in this is a deal breaker.

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Speaker 2: Now. If it's something that you identify.

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Speaker 1: Is really important in your relationship and your partner is

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Speaker 1: never going to believe that, then that could become an

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Speaker 1: issue down the line, because sex means and can mean

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Speaker 1: so much to you that would then create a lack

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Speaker 1: of satisfaction just generally in your relationship. That's nothing wrong

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Speaker 1: with you or nothing wrong with him, but it's the

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Speaker 1: same thing, like if one of you wants to, you know,

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Speaker 1: move to England and that's something that they desire and

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Speaker 1: long for in their lives, and one person is like, no,

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Speaker 1: I want to live in Indiana for the entirety of

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Speaker 1: my life. One of you is either going to have

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Speaker 1: to compromise on that and not even compromise, because compromise

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Speaker 1: is like meaning the middle is going to have to say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I can live without that thing, or both of you

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Speaker 1: are going to say, you know what, this is both

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Speaker 1: really important to both of us.

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Speaker 2: To have these things.

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Speaker 1: And so this acttally is going to lead to resentment

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Speaker 1: down the line where one of us is not getting

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Speaker 1: something that is really important to us, and it's going

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Speaker 1: to create issues elsewhere, and.

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Speaker 2: That's where it becomes a problem.

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Speaker 1: But if you're both willing to work on this, the

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Speaker 1: issue is actually not necessarily a long term issue. What

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Speaker 1: I'm saying is if you're asking if your physical intimacy

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Speaker 1: compatibility where it is right now, if it should be

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Speaker 1: a deal breaker, I don't actually have the answer for

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Speaker 1: that right now. It honestly depends on who you are,

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Speaker 1: what's important to you, what's important to your partner, and

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Speaker 1: what isn't It also depends on what you even define

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Speaker 1: as physically intimate. There can be so many things that

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Speaker 1: fall into this category that we ignore, we don't pay

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Speaker 1: attention to, because we've been programmed to view physical intimacy

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Speaker 1: and the right way to do it and the right

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Speaker 1: way to have it, and all of the rightness is

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Speaker 1: one way, and that's just not true. And like I

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Speaker 1: mentioned Emilie Nagowski earlier, she's the author of Come as

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Speaker 1: You Are, a great book, and she's a brilliant human being.

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Speaker 1: And through her work she found that couples who sustain

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Speaker 1: really strong sexual relationships over many years they share two characteristics.

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Speaker 1: One they are friends that trust and both admire each other,

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Speaker 1: which I think is very sweet. And the other is

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Speaker 1: that they actually prioritize sex. And when I say prioritize sex,

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Speaker 1: I mean they put an active effort into making time

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Speaker 1: for it. It isn't this who spontaneous crazy sex on

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Speaker 1: the kitchen counter type of thing.

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Speaker 2: The reason I'm saying that is it doesn't need to

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Speaker 2: be that.

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Speaker 1: It goes into how we view what physical intimacy should

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Speaker 1: be and the right way to do it. We regard

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Speaker 1: certain types of having that as better than the other

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Speaker 1: when that necessarily isn't always true, And having to prioritize

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Speaker 1: and make time for something like this doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: like dull it down or make it not special, because

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Speaker 1: you're also saying, hey, this is important to me, and

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Speaker 1: that alone can actually make it just as special as

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Speaker 1: something that is spontaneous. And she actually asked people like

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Speaker 1: the people that do prioritize sex, like why would you

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Speaker 1: do that? Why would you take the time and effort

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Speaker 1: to prioritize something like this, Like what's the purpose of that?

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Speaker 1: And the answer that she got is that those couples

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Speaker 1: are longing for connection and it is a way for

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Speaker 1: them both to connect deeply with each other. It's a

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Speaker 1: way to connect deeply with a partner in a very vulnerable,

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Speaker 1: special way. And that's something I would really pay attention to.

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Speaker 1: Back to my question that I posed earlier in this episode,

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Speaker 1: is what is it that you're longing for? And does

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Speaker 1: your partner long for that as well?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Like what feels missing? Is that missing from your partner

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Speaker 1: or do you just get those in different ways? Are

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Speaker 1: you able to meet each other's need in that way?

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Speaker 1: It might be something that you say, well, we're not

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Speaker 1: meeting that need right now, but are.

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Speaker 2: You able to?

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Speaker 1: Can you come together talk about this and prioritize this right?

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Speaker 1: It's the act of sex for you, the thing that

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Speaker 1: you're missing. I just like feel like we should be

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Speaker 1: doing this because if we're not, that means that he's

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Speaker 1: not attracted to me? Or is it the fact that

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Speaker 1: you long to feel connected to your partner in a

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Speaker 1: different way and you long to feel desired And maybe

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Speaker 1: there are just some other messages that are getting wrapped

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Speaker 1: up in this issue. There isn't a right or wrong

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Speaker 1: thing to do here. Maybe there is a right thing

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Speaker 1: for you, but there isn't like a right way universally,

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Speaker 1: And so my encouragement to you would be to dig

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Speaker 1: into a lot of the stories in your head so

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Speaker 1: you can come out more confident knowing what it is

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Speaker 1: that you want and need in a relationship because it

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Speaker 1: feels authentic versus this is what I have been programmed

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Speaker 1: and taught to believe it should be like. So, really,

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Speaker 1: to kind of close this out, you're asking, should should

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Speaker 1: your compatibility on physical intimacy be a deal breaker? I

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Speaker 1: would even generalize that question for you a little bit too,

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Speaker 1: and make to make it maybe feel a little bit

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Speaker 1: more simple. Is think about whether or not the ability

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Speaker 1: for your needs to be met, if that should be

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Speaker 1: a deal breaker. If you are in a relationship where

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Speaker 1: you know the needs that you have that are authentic

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Speaker 1: to you, not what you think you should have, but

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Speaker 1: the things that you really long for in a relationship,

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Speaker 1: if those are not able to be met in a relationship,

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Speaker 1: I think you can come up with what you think

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Speaker 1: would be the right thing for you to do in

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Speaker 1: that scenario. And right now it might not feel like

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Speaker 1: you guys are aligning on the intimacy, But if you

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Speaker 1: really look at what need here that I'm missing, and

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Speaker 1: if we can talk about it in that way, and

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Speaker 1: if there is a desire on both sides to work

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Speaker 1: on this and make this a priority, then I think

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Speaker 1: you have some more information to gather before you can

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Speaker 1: really say my needs are not able to be met here.

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Speaker 1: But that's what you're asking, I think is it could

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Speaker 1: be any important need in your life that can't be

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Speaker 1: met outside of your romantic relationship.

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Speaker 2: So I feel like I'm.

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Speaker 1: Kind of rambling now, so I'm gonna kind of sign

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Speaker 1: off here. I hope that was helpful. Again, I recommend

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Speaker 1: anybody who's interested in just learning about like some of

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Speaker 1: the things that we were a programmed to think about

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Speaker 1: sex and what actually might be true about sex. Elien

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Speaker 1: Dagoski is a great person to follow. She's a great

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Speaker 1: person to listen to speak and read her own work.

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Speaker 1: So highly suggests that thank you so much for sending

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Speaker 1: this question. And again, if you would like to follow

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Speaker 1: me or the podcast, it's Kat dot Defada and at

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Speaker 1: You Need Therapy Podcast on Instagram. If you have a question,

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Speaker 1: you can send it to Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast.

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Speaker 1: And I hope you guys are having the day you

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Speaker 1: need to have.