1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Welcome back 5 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: to the show. My name is Matt. There's a null 6 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: spaced hole to my left, there's an oal hole. Indeed, 7 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: they call me Ben. We are joined, as always with 8 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: our super producer, Paul Mission Controlled Decans, who has recently 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: been rethinking his Moniker and maybe going with Paul Hollywood 10 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: in a British accent. Most importantly, you are you, You 11 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want 12 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: you to know. This is a this is a strange 13 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: episode for us and uh and an interesting story. There's 14 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: a there are a couple of different conspiratorial myths we 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: run into here, and we also run into the evolution 16 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: of media and the great game of telephone that we've 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: mentioned in previous previous episodes. But before we begin, Matt, 18 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: I have to I have to I have to ask you, 19 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: do you think this summer will be the summer that 20 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: our hometown burns down? Then Atlanta burns again, just from 21 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: the heat, this time not from interesting warfare. My goodness. 22 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't be surprised. We went out, my 23 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: family and I went out to the Candler Park Festival 24 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: on Gosh was that Saturday? Yes, it was Saturday. And 25 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: just standing outside uncovered was a terrible thing. I would 26 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: not recommend it to anyone. Find a tree, get underneath it, 27 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: and you'll be okay. The music is still gonna sound great. 28 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: There we go. That's the spirit. It's it's a it's 29 00:01:54,000 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: a positive, positive spin on a terrible, terrible thing. I 30 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: I just landed back in town late yesterday night or 31 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,839 Speaker 1: early this morning, I'm not sure which. And the thing 32 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: that hit me immediately was the heat. I'm just everyone 33 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 1: who lives here, uh, enjoy summer and autumn and all 34 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: the hits, all the all the slow jazz of the 35 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: seasons until summer comes. This is terrible, This is horrific. 36 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: Uh have no idea how hot or cold it is, 37 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: Uh you know in your neck of the global woods, folks, 38 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: but please send us. What do they say on Facebook? 39 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: Thoughts and prayers are better yet? Ice cubes or those 40 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: um and did you ever have those those weird little 41 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: popsicles that came in the plastic tubes when you were 42 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: a kid or some of those. I'm I'm burning up 43 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: so much. You know, the sun is my ancient nemesis anyway, 44 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: Uh that I'm considering ice pops as as a treatment 45 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: is hot town, summer in the city, come back, my 46 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: cool cat and looking forward, kidding, going to search an 47 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: every cold the city, all the bound the people looking 48 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: have to walking on the Oh, gonna get sued by 49 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: that town by town and that artist. I doubt it. 50 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: I doubt it. But that is that is a stone 51 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: cold jam for hellishly hot day. So assuming that, assuming 52 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: that the studio doesn't melt into one interminable mass of 53 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: plastic v O c s that's volatile organic compounds chemicals 54 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: a k a. The basis of new car smell, and 55 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: what I will slowly kill you along with organic matter 56 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: and mortar, we will successfully finish this episode. This is 57 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: a story that encounters, as we said, so many different 58 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: conspiratorial threads. And while you were listening, we would like 59 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: to invite you to participate with us in pseudo real time. 60 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: I mean time itself is a pseudo thing anyway, right, 61 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: So if the mood strikes you, if the spirit so 62 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: moves you as you are joining us today. Don't hesitate, 63 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: don't feel like you have to wait till the end 64 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: to write an email. You can go ahead and just 65 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: give us a call. We are one eight three three 66 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: st d w y t K. And if you're like 67 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: one of our listeners that we casually mentioned at the 68 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: end of the show, and I must say in a 69 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: way that I knew that only this listener would understand 70 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: that I was talking to her, you will then leave 71 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: six more messages over the weekend. She just so, please 72 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 1: feel free to reach out with any kind of questions, 73 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: any kind of statements, especially if you come up with 74 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: something as we're talking about this episode. Yes, please, so 75 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: let us begin to paraphrase Henre Da Balzac. Behind every 76 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: great fortune, there is a great crime. It's a thought 77 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: that we've we've encountered multiple times, and that you have 78 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: probably encountered in your own life in any variety of fronts. 79 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: The concept here is that one cannot, regardless of time 80 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: and space, one cannot reach, regardless of time and space, 81 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: a certain threshold of financial success without somehow purposefully or 82 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: unwittingly gaining some part of that fortune through criminal acts. 83 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: And it's not. It isn't necessarily criminal acts of that 84 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: person by gaining that wealth, because that wealth then many 85 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: times is handed down right. So perhaps it's a criminal 86 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: act that your grandparents or your great grandparents or even 87 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: further back committed right right, So it's it's a known fact, 88 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: for instance, that there are people in the world who 89 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: still enjoy the benefits their ancestors reaped from things like 90 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: the slave trade or colonialism. There's also another case to 91 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: be if we want to make a case about people 92 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,559 Speaker 1: who are unwittingly perhaps profiting for this, we could look 93 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: at Silicon Valley and the technocrats who live there profiting 94 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: off of the backbreaking human rights abuses involved in the 95 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: mining industry, retaining the things they need to make their 96 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: chips right right, right, one way or the other. And 97 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: this quickly descends into a very sticky philosophical conversation. Are 98 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: you or I if we own a smartphone and we 99 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 1: also benefiting from this? The answer is more or less yes. 100 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: But in this case we're talking about the people who 101 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: become millionaires, multimillionaires, billionaires in the pursuit of these of 102 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: these ambitions. Right in today's episode, we are traveling back 103 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: in time fellow conspiracy realists, we are exploring the story 104 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: of one of America's earliest tycoons, literally the first multimillionaire 105 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: in the United States, or perhaps officially is a better 106 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: word than literally, and will along the way dive into 107 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: the speculation about just how this one individual arrived at 108 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: his fortune and why this speculation continues today. And as 109 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: we'll find out in this episode. As many others, these 110 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: stories have an official version and not so official version. Yes, 111 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: just so, here are the facts. Born Johan jacob Astor 112 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: in Germany on July seventeen, seventeen sixty three, John jacob 113 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: Astor was the son of a butcher who would go 114 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: on to found a financial dynasty that continues in some 115 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: ways into the modern day. That's right. When he was, 116 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: you know, a young man, around seventeen years old, he 117 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: went to London and he started to work with one 118 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: of his brother is his older brother, George. And this 119 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: this guy, George, made musical instruments, and you know, it's 120 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: interesting enough, but he wanted to try something else. So 121 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: in seventeen eighty four he left London. He got out 122 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: of town. He brought some some of these instruments with 123 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: him and just a little bit of pocket money, around 124 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: twenty five dollars, and he traveled all the way across 125 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: the ocean to the United States to try and find 126 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: something fortune right right, to seek his fortune. It's an 127 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: American dreams story, right. Let's let's explore the official story 128 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: about how this German immigrant came to become America's first 129 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: multi millionaire. So, as you said, Matt, seventeen eighty four, 130 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: he arrives, he just got some flutes. He's got around 131 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: twenty five dollars cash money, as they would say. Uh. 132 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: He arrives in Baltimore, and he eventually makes his way 133 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: up to New York City. While he is in New York, 134 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: he opens his own fur trade shop. In seventeen eighties six, 135 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: so about two years after he leaves Germany. He often 136 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: at this time travels out into the wilderness, just like 137 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: his fur trappers do, and he wants to find news 138 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: sources of fur for his shop. This is a huge 139 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: industry at this time, and this was before concerns about 140 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: preserving species were very widespread. It was a foreign concept 141 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: or alien concept to many of these trappers and traders 142 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: that there would ever be a day where it was 143 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: difficult to obtain as many beaver pelts as one would wish. Yeah, 144 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: because the populations I'll start to dwindle, because the fur 145 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: trade ends up being a really big thing. Well, and 146 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: just one quick thing here with Johan A. K. John 147 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 1: Astor here he when he went to New York, he 148 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: met up with another brother, right, and he was working 149 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: i think at a butcher shop up for a while 150 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 1: with his brother, and then he ended up trying his 151 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: hand at baking, cooking and these kind of things. And 152 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: he was totally like, I'm never going to make enough 153 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: money just working with my hands at this level, doing 154 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: this kind of thing. And that's one of the main 155 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: reasons he went out to seek out the fur trade 156 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: exactly because he could have easily spent the bulk of 157 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: his life laboring as a successful artisan, right, and instead 158 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: he wanted something more. So he traveled to what even 159 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: today is known as the Land of Excess, and the 160 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,559 Speaker 1: fur trade was appealing. It helped him get a start again, 161 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: according to the official story, but he saved his he 162 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: saved his pennies, he saved his scratch, didn't party too 163 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: hard at whatever their equivalent of David Busters was back then, 164 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: and so it came to pass that a few years later, 165 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: Astor was able to make his first real estate investment, 166 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: and as he was diverse fight into real estate, he 167 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: was continuing to grow his fur business. Eventually, ASTs Fur 168 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: Trading Interest becomes the country's leading for company by by 169 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: the turn of the century. He also takes his reach international. 170 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: He starts exporting for directly to China. In return, he 171 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: is importing Chinese silk and tea, which are you know, 172 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: items of luxury right with a with a tremendously high 173 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: profit margin. Uh, even counting in all the dangers involved 174 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: in international shipping at the time. And yeah, and you 175 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: can see how that that also becomes very lucrative just 176 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: the the fact that he can ship goods back and 177 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: forth into different places and then even to China into 178 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: different places in China. I mean, this is a huge deal. 179 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: This is how you really really make some money. Yes, 180 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: exactly right, you go big, you go international. So all 181 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: of asked where was for businesses as different um, you know, 182 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: different interests, We talked about this. This occurs in business today. 183 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 1: You may see five different products on the same shelf 184 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: in the same section of a grocery store and they're 185 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: ultimately all owned by the same place. Fingers on a hand, right, 186 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 1: So he goes public with this. He merges all of 187 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: his fur businesses into something he calls in a burst 188 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: of creativity, the American Fur Company in a ten o eight. 189 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: And we shouldn't be too hard on the guy. I'm 190 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: sure you had a lot going on. He just needed 191 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: something simple and to the point for the name. Well, 192 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 1: and I think if you can cause something the American 193 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: anything like if that name has a been trademarked already, 194 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: I mean, go ahead and trade market, that's great because 195 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: that's that's similar to you know, I bet you've stumbled 196 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: onto an add uh an ad cycle like an AD 197 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: copy cycle. Maybe we've mentioned this before, but if you're 198 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: listening now, depending on how old or young you are, 199 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: you can probably look back in your life and notice 200 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: that marketing companies and ad companies go through this sort 201 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: of um industry wide trend towards certain phrases. Right. I 202 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: think there there are times when everything is organic, or 203 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: in the nineties everything was digital. It didn't even matter 204 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:22,320 Speaker 1: if it was an actual digital product, right, And so 205 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: maybe American was was one of the first iterations of that. 206 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: I think that's I think you're probably right. But regardless 207 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: of our theories on the creativity or lack thereof in 208 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: the ad community, it turns out that this this was 209 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: a very good move on his part and the US. 210 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: We have to remember this is just the dawn of 211 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century. The US is still um, still in 212 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: its infancy in terms of what will later become the 213 00:13:54,559 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: fifties state behemoth we know today. Lewis and Clark had 214 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: just ended their expedition to the west coast of the continent. 215 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: That was in what eighteen o six And after this 216 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: Astor when he learned about this expedition, he bought up 217 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: some land in Oregon where a fort was built in 218 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: eighteen eleven, and he had planned to build a settlement 219 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: called a Storia, not the most humble name. But you know, 220 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: he was by far not the only person doing this. 221 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: Everybody was. Everybody was naming crap after themselves. Yea, and 222 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: why not. I mean that's pretty great, Uh, eighteen eleven 223 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: building a thing called a story of which sounds I mean, 224 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: it actually doesn't sound that bad. Well, it's not like 225 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: a story of Astorville or or Fordlandia. But we also 226 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: have to consider for being fair that the people who 227 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: had lived there for thousands of years earlier probably had 228 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: their own name for it. Yeah, that's true. Well, regardless, 229 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: the reason he did not end up going through with 230 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: this was because of the War of eighteen twelve. He 231 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: ended up selling the outpost because Great Britain and the 232 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: United States had what people today would call a messy breakup. Yeah. 233 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,359 Speaker 1: I believe it was with a Canadian company that purchased 234 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: that from him, or Canadian interests at least, right, So 235 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: he decided to get out while the getting was good, 236 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Because if he had if 237 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: he had owned that land and the US ended up 238 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: losing control over it or serenity over it, would his 239 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: deed of ownership still be honored. Yeah. Well, and and 240 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: indeed they did take over for like forty years, And 241 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: so he appeared to have made uh the right decision. 242 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: After the War of eighteen twelve, he made even more scratch, 243 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: even more cheddar, even more pony bones, whatever you want 244 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: to call it, because he had a bond deal with 245 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: the US government at the same time. Is wealth is 246 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: compounded by the fact that all the real estate in 247 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: New York City he owns begins the skyrocket in value, 248 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: and then he ends up getting out of the fur 249 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: business around eighteen thirties, and then he's really you know, 250 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: he's I guess he's realizing that the true money now 251 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: is in the accruede wealth of those those properties that 252 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: he owns. So he's spending a lot of time doing 253 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: his real estate management and all the estates, the investments. Um, 254 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: he's you know, at this point, he owns hotels, he 255 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: owns places where other people live, residences where people are 256 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 1: paying rent essentially, and that's where his time is spent 257 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: and his money really is made. That's where he sees 258 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: his most significant return. It's not it's not to say 259 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: that being a landlord is easy by any means, as 260 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: I'm sure the landlords listening here kind of a test. 261 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: But it is to say it's less work than uh, 262 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: sending people out into the wild who tried to capture 263 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: dwindling populations of wild animals in the hopes that affer 264 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: retains its value, and then sending a lot of the 265 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: same people or new other people you're hiring to then 266 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: ship it across the world, right and just hope nothing 267 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: goes wrong. So that's why he goes into real estate, 268 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: and again there's the official story. By the time Astor 269 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: dies in eighteen forty eight, he is the most wealthy 270 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: man in the country. He has an estimated fortune of 271 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: around twenty million dollars. And just let's give a little 272 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: bit of perspective here, Uh, Paul, we're going to have 273 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: an inflation calculator. Could you throw us a sound queue 274 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle of this. So, twenty million dollars 275 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: in eighteen forty eight is roughly equivalent to six hundred 276 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: and forty six million, nine hundred and fifty six thousand, 277 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: nine hundred and sixty two dollars and three cents in Yes, 278 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: so almost like more than half a billion dollars. Most 279 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: of his wealth, the vast majority, goes to one guy, 280 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: one of his seven children, William Backhouse Astor. Yes, you 281 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: heard that correctly. His middle name is the words back 282 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: and house together, William Backhouse Astor. It just feels like 283 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: something his friends called him, or like he was a 284 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: wrestler do something. It does sound it's one of those yeah, 285 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: in joke nicknames. I'm sure it's it's it has a 286 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: logic and reason to it, but it sounds like you know, 287 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: you know how you meet different friend groups and one 288 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: of the members of the friend group just has has 289 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: a weird name that no one explains to you and 290 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: just have it like like, really, your name's Red Paladin. Sure, 291 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: that's pretty okay? Is that whatever you say? Archie your 292 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: friends at dragon Con? Is that what's going on? No, 293 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: my wife's making me watch Riverdale and it's killing me. 294 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: It's a river Dale isn't murder mystery. It is. I can, like, 295 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: I survive because it is a murder mystery. But oh 296 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: my god, is jug Head the killer? He always struck 297 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: me as the most sinison dude. Jug Head and FP 298 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:20,199 Speaker 1: or holding it down? Who's FP? Should I? Should? I? 299 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: Just uh read the reviews on vox or something or no, 300 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: just know that FP is skei ul Rich and he 301 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: makes the show worth it for me, as well as 302 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: the late unfortunately Luke Perry, who is also awesome. There 303 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: are a lot of great there. There's the cast is wonderful. 304 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: The show itself is slightly infuriating. Okay, slightly infuriating, that's 305 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: the review. No, not in a bad way, It's just 306 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: you can tell it's written for maybe a slightly younger 307 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: audience than me. They do. They do reference movies that 308 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: came out the year that they were in production, which 309 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: is or you know, a couple of years prior to 310 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: being in production, which is so interesting to have a 311 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: separate universe. But Baby Driver is still a thing anyway, 312 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: So is this one real quick? Is this on CW? 313 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: I don't even know it's one of the streaming services. 314 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: And I just want to play a little gargoyle Griffins 315 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: and Gargoyles now, So when you're ready, let's let's throw 316 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: down some dice and get the chalcis. Oh god, I 317 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: don't know what I'm saying. Okay, Well that's your official story, 318 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: and uh it coincides with the official story of John 319 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: Jacob ast It's very difficult, I imagine for both of 320 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: us not to say John Jacob Jagole Haimer Schmidt every time. 321 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: But anyway, Johnny j astor At at this point posthumously, 322 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: he looks to be a quintessential example of the American dream. 323 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: He has all the essential ingredients. He's a hard working immigrant. 324 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 1: He has risen to the top achelons of society, not 325 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,439 Speaker 1: through undeserved and hair atants, not because of who his 326 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: parents were, but because he combined hard work with sharp wits, 327 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: good old gumption, and no small dose of good luck. However, 328 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: for decades and decades, various researchers have proposed another, we 329 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: could say conspiratorial narrative, a less inspiring, stranger explanation for 330 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 1: the source of Aster's enormous wealth. What if, instead of 331 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: earning it slowly over time, he stolen all in one go. 332 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 1: And we'll learn about that right after a quick word 333 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. There's an 334 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 1: alternate story about John Jacob Aster's wealth. Let's say that 335 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: the story of his arrival to the North American cont 336 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: is true up to his early career as a fur trader. Okay, 337 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: what if the narrative takes a sharp turn shortly afterward. 338 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: What if, instead of continually evolving his business, Astra has 339 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of help from an unexpected discovery. Could 340 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 1: his fortune be based not on business acumen, but on 341 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: the secret discovery of buried treasure. Now, before we get 342 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 1: into this, this is why it's so interesting to me, 343 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: because one of the major things you need in order 344 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: to make money is to have some money. Right, this 345 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 1: is something we've established throughout all of all of time, 346 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: memoriam Um. The connection here is that he just needed 347 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: a certain injection of funds early on to be able 348 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: to make some of the investments he made and to 349 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: grow that into a fortune. That's what everything else we're 350 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: talking about. That's what makes it so fascinating to me. 351 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: So there's this other person, this other person named William Kidd, 352 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: and he had this thing called pirate treasure. Okay, all right, 353 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: let's get into his life. So um, this dude was 354 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: born William Kidd uh. He was born in sixty five. 355 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: He originally had a career focusing on privateering, but eventually 356 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: he was hired by European royals to attack foreign ships 357 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: that would encroach on land and would be enemies essentially, sure, yeah, 358 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: or competitors, because we have to we have to consider 359 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: at this point that trade and state craft were very closely, 360 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: very closely intertwined, and much of it is happening on 361 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: the open seas, and that's where the pirates come in. Yes. 362 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: So as so, he was a pirate hunter and he 363 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: took the helm of a ship called the Adventure Galley 364 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: in six English investors had hired him to be a 365 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: privateer to hunt down the foreign vessels that were endangering 366 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: there or as you know, his employers international trade deals. 367 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 1: Now hold on, Matt, hold on. Then you might be saying, 368 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: as you listen along here, Uh, I'm pretty sure that 369 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: Captain William Kidd is one of the world's most notorious 370 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: pirates from this era. And you're telling me that he 371 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: started out hunting pirates, he became one of the same 372 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: monsters he meant to eradicate. Yes, that is exactly what 373 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: we're saying. It's like he got bitten by a pirate 374 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: and he became a pirate, which is how it works. 375 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: That's how it works exactly. So the problem with his 376 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: pirate hunting days was that they couldn't He and his 377 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 1: crew didn't really find the ships that were supposed to attack. 378 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: They were supposed to attack some ships, and they found 379 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: very few of them. And then in January he caught 380 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: sight of something called the quig Do Merchant, which was 381 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: rounding the tip of India. This was an Armenian ship 382 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: weight five hundred tons. It carried gold, silk spices all 383 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 1: the hits. They were owned in part by a minister 384 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: at the Indian Grand Moughal's court. Uh. This minister had powerful, 385 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: powerful connections and when he learned that his vessel had 386 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: been attacked, he complained to the East India Company. Yeah 387 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: and uh. Now the East India Company and the Grand 388 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: Mogul are saying, this guy is not legit. He's not 389 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 1: a pirate hunter. He's hurting the wrong ships. He is 390 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: not a pirate hunter. He is a pirate and so 391 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: begins his life on the wrong side of the law. 392 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 1: Turns out being on the wrong side of law did 393 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: not suit Kid over the long term, and he eventually 394 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,639 Speaker 1: was arrested in Boston. Then he was shipped back to 395 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: England for his trial and his court date was May eighth, 396 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: seventeen o one, and he was found guilty and unfortunately 397 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: for him, uh, he was hanged on May twenty three 398 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,719 Speaker 1: of that same year, seventeen o one. And um, again 399 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 1: like one of the one of the big things here, 400 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: there are some abhorrent things done to humans and their bodies, um, 401 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 1: you know, within in the past to basically serve as 402 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: warnings for other people to not do something. And Captain 403 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: William Kidd he was one of these people because his body, 404 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: after it was dead and hung, was then put in 405 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: a cage and hung up and it was left to 406 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: rot there for everyone to see. Everybody who went down 407 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: the Thames River, the one that goes through London. So 408 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: you know, don't be a pirate. Look at that guy. 409 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: He was a pirate. See what happens when you mess 410 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 1: with the the world's most successful corporation. Right, So here's 411 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: the thing, he's dead. No one knows how much treasure 412 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 1: he did or did not have, and no one knows 413 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: where he did or did not put it. We did 414 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: know that there was about ten thousand pounds worth of 415 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: treasure that was sent to pay for part of the 416 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: trial and a couple of couple of other things, right, 417 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 1: and yes, there's something like that where it was not 418 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: a lot of money. I mean, ten thousand pounds at 419 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: the time is a lot of money, um, but it 420 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: wasn't like the full pirate bounty that you would think of. Right. 421 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: We do know that he did possess treasure. He did 422 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: deposit some of it on Gardeneer's Island, hoping to use 423 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: his knowledge of the treasure as a bar nan chip uh. 424 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: He also he also probably put some in other places. 425 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: The thing is, no one knows exactly where that would 426 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: be no one date has found this huge treasure trove. 427 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: Before he was hanged in seventeen oh one, he allegedly 428 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: buried some of his lute in the Caribbean. This is 429 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: This was the popular theory at the time. And despite 430 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: the generations of treasure hunters who have attempted to verify 431 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: his claims more or less in the over the past 432 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: three centuries, uh, nothing has been recovered that would equal 433 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: the rumors, because the rumors are kind of like um 434 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: like smugs horde of gold level treasure trove, you know 435 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: what I mean, not just a box with some emeralds. 436 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: This brings us background. So we've the life and times 437 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: of William Kent. He did get treasured, we don't know 438 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: how much. He put it in a few places and 439 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: then he died, and then he died, and we don't 440 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: know where those places are. So the Astore connection. Could 441 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: John Jacob Astore have somehow located a piece of kids treasure? 442 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: We will tell you the actual answer after a word 443 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: from our sponsors, and we're back. There's more to this 444 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: story than one might think at first blush. It all 445 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: traces back to a fellow named Franklin Harvey Head yes, 446 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: this gentleman, Mr Head. Uh. He was a lawyer. He 447 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: was born in New York and he worked in all 448 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: over like really all over the place, Wisconsin, California, Utah, 449 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: and he ended up in Chicago. He was a director 450 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: and president of this place called the Chicago Malleable Iron Company, 451 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: another one of those awesome company titles or names that 452 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: is just if it's not there, will take it. But 453 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: in this case they added malleable just to let you 454 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: know that iron was going to be shaped and changed, 455 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: which is pretty cool because again it's so it's so funny. 456 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: Sometimes we forget that shaping iron into things and then 457 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: cooling it off was such a major advancement in human history. Uh, 458 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: there was a big deal and we need still they 459 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: needed a ton of iron to be produced. Um. So 460 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: this guy, uh, Franklin Harvey Head he Um. He's the 461 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: kind of guy that has some wealth and he also 462 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: likes to show it off a little bit and also 463 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: socialize with other people that have some wealth. He's a 464 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: social climber, yes exactly. And you know one of the 465 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: things that he likes to do was right and publish 466 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: the humorous tales that he would use to try and 467 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: impress his wealthy friends. Yeah. Yeah, So the kind of 468 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: people that he wants to hang out with are not 469 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: the novo reiche. There there is new money, got it. Uh, 470 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: they're the kind of people that he wants to hang 471 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: out with are the equivalent of American aristocrats. Their idea 472 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: of success is to not be associated with earning money, 473 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: and indeed to look down at times upon people who 474 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: do work for a living. Even if they're working for 475 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: a living, is just them owning a company? Uh? You know, 476 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: let's not forget this is the country where someone wants 477 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: famously derided the Hilton family by saying, oh, the Hilton's 478 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: are they still letting rooms to people? And uh and 479 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: and for many of us listening, of course, that is 480 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: that is a surree ill and cartoonish concept that you 481 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: would be condescending for to someone for being good at something. 482 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: But uh, this was the case. These were the sorts 483 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: of groups with whom had aspired to be associated. And 484 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: you can see why he is a person between two 485 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: worlds because he still has to work for a living. 486 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: The shame, right, the egnomy, and just the last the 487 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: thing that's most important in in order to feel as 488 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: though he's included with those groups the way been talking 489 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: about here. It's very important to note that the stories 490 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: he was talking about would make reference to historical figures 491 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: that those people would recognize and know, but they are 492 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: made up or or pander a bit to his friends. 493 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: I would say, more importantly, pander a bit to his 494 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: friends by mentioning their ancestry or the the land that 495 00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,160 Speaker 1: their families got back when, you know, back when out 496 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: of them had a job. So the most important thing 497 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: that you just point out there, Matt, is that these 498 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: stories which were whimsical, satirical, Uh, they were made up. 499 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: They were made him up seats and they were to 500 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: quote Jonathan circulent a k. The Quister, and they were 501 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: meant to uh, they were meant to ingratiate him within 502 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: these circles. They were also not meant to be widely 503 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: published outside, because you know, the more people have access 504 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: to a thing, the less interesting or valuable it becomes. 505 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: In this in again, in this mindset, that's not how 506 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: the world should work, but that's how their mindset was functioning. 507 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: We have some examples in a in a work of 508 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: his work of heads called Shakespeare's Insomnia and the Causes thereof. 509 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: He claims that newly discovered correspondence between Shakespeare, Sir Walter Rawleigh, 510 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: an actor named William Kemp, and a money lender with 511 00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: a tremendously offensive name Mordecai Shylock all show that Shakespeare 512 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: had difficulty with money and marriage and that this led 513 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 1: to chronic insomnia, and that his chronic insomnia manifests itself 514 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: in many of his works because various characters, uh talked 515 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: about sleeping or not sleeping. Yeah, they need to get 516 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: some rest. Finally they can be okay, Yeah, fascinating and 517 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,959 Speaker 1: it's funny in a way. I've not read the book, 518 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: but just that concept alone is humorous to me. Yeah. Yeah, 519 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I get where he's going with it. One 520 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: of his books is the actual and only source, only 521 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: primary source for this story about Astor and William Kidd. 522 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: And here's how it happens. So Harvey Head is having 523 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: dinner with the daughter of a landscape architects named Frederick 524 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: Law Olmstead, and the subject of some property in Maine 525 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: comes up, and this is this is a place called 526 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 1: Deer Island. Olmstead owns land there, and he spent maybe 527 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 1: like a summer there before he passed away, and based 528 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: on this conversation, Head decides he's going to have a 529 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: little fun ah ha. He thinks it's time for one 530 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,880 Speaker 1: of my classic moves, one of my in joke books. 531 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm gonna absolutely kill it with this crowd. 532 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 1: What does he do? Man with the olmstaid Uh? Okay, Well, 533 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: and just another little footnote here about Frederick Law Olmstead, Uh, 534 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: the architect who moved there to Deer on Mains Deer Island. Um. 535 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,879 Speaker 1: It really was so soon before his death. He ended 536 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: up being put in a I guess a facility because 537 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: he was on his way out almost immediately after moving 538 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: there ended up being a little tragical story there about him. 539 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: Um you can read more about in other places. But 540 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: had thought it would be hilarious if he came up 541 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: with the backstory as to how one of Olmstead's um, 542 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:11,800 Speaker 1: I guess ancestors helped John Astor, who was one who's 543 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,359 Speaker 1: known widely known as one of the most wealthy people 544 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,760 Speaker 1: in the world. All these people know who the Astor 545 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: family is, and John Astor came up with this idea 546 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: of maybe here's this secret little this tale about how 547 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: your ancestor helped this guy become the wealthiest person in 548 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: the world. Right, he writes a book called Studies in 549 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: Early American History, a notable lawsuit, and in this in 550 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: this story, in this work he what you can read 551 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: online by the way, he describes how Olmstead's descendants sued 552 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: the Astor family to recover William Kidd's pirate treasure. According 553 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 1: to this account, one of one of Astor's agents, or 554 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: perhaps asked for himself, a fur trapper discover a buried 555 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: treasure chest um the pirate William Kidd on land that 556 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:08,760 Speaker 1: Olmstead's ancestors owned on Dear Aisle in Maine. This trapper 557 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: stole the chest, but for some reason did not know 558 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: its actual value, so he sold the chest to John 559 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: Jacob Astor, and it became the entire basis for the 560 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:26,399 Speaker 1: Astor family fortune in heads account. Generations later, the Olmsteads 561 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: somehow discover this theft, and they decided to sue the 562 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: Astor clan for compensation, including back rent on all his 563 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: Manhattan real estate that you know, because he had purchased 564 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: it with this pirate treasure and the stick there, you know, 565 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 1: you see how it's almost like an onion article. It 566 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: just continues to escalate. But the book itself is full 567 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: of these nods and these winks and these tongues in 568 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,359 Speaker 1: these cheeks. It's full of tipoffs that it is not 569 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:01,920 Speaker 1: a work of fact, including references to ancestors that don't exist, 570 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,479 Speaker 1: like god Mather Olmstead or Oliver Cromwell Olmstead, Uh, neither 571 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: of whom are real. But it's just throwing Olmstead on 572 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: the bottom of other important figures, right exactly, William Shakespeare Olmstead. 573 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: So maybe the the biggest indicator that this story is 574 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 1: completely fictional was that there is no lawsuit. The book 575 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: mentions a lawsuit the and bases itself on this lawsuit, 576 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: but the lawsuit does not exist. It is not a thing. 577 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: It's not real at least, it's not written about in 578 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: any papers and any ledgers and anything that has been 579 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: kept over all the years, in any legal documents, legal proceedings. 580 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 1: It's not cited as precedent for anything. It doesn't exist. Well, 581 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: and in the account of Head there's it's a very 582 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:52,439 Speaker 1: specific claim of asking for five million dollars or the equivalent, Yeah, 583 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: five million dollars roughly, or just you know, control over 584 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: all of John Astor's property in Manhattan, which everyone was 585 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: easier essentially. Yeah, and it was like minus a couple 586 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,919 Speaker 1: of cents for some other thing. I mean, it's very 587 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: very specific. So this is a little bit of conspiracy 588 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:15,840 Speaker 1: busting here. This story was published in eighteen nine two, 589 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: and again it was originally known to be fiction. The 590 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: Olmsteads knew it was fiction. The guy who wrote it 591 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: head knew it was fiction. It was just funny. But 592 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 1: the problem is that people at that time, in the 593 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: late eighteen hundred's early nineteen hundreds, were very very similar 594 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: to people in the nineteen fifties or nineteen or we 595 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: can go ahead and reasonably assume people in twenty fifty 596 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,799 Speaker 1: They were desperate for news of the world's wealthy and 597 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,720 Speaker 1: had a difficult time separating fact and fiction, differentiating between 598 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: you know, one news report on on Facebook and then 599 00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: the piece of fake news on Facebook. Right. Well, and 600 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: let's talk about fact checking in the eighteen hundreds, late 601 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, how would you verify, Well, just how difficult 602 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: it would be to have correspondence between some like some 603 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: law office somewhere else, let's say in Maine, even if 604 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: you're in New York or something, just making that happen 605 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: and trying to get um any kind of correspondence back 606 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 1: and forth in a timely manner to write or report 607 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,720 Speaker 1: on something. If let's say, in New York City or Chicago, 608 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: you came upon a copy of this this work and 609 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: you were unsure of it's you know, um it's veracity 610 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 1: or it's the truth behind any of the stuff. But 611 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: it looks real, and it's talking about people that you 612 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,759 Speaker 1: you know, the name Cell sound familiar. It looks all 613 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: familiar and who knows, Hey, that reminds me. I can't 614 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: remember if I told you, because we this this is 615 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: the first time this week we're hanging out. Uh. I 616 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: went to Maine this weekend. Oh you mentioned that? Was 617 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: that the jumping off point to the other place you went? No, No, 618 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: it was actually I had to go to Maine to 619 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: make it back here. Oh, okay, it was. It was 620 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: kind of sketchy. I was in Maine. Uh and and 621 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: on disclosedly cation on a ramp for two hours or so. Yeah, 622 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: because I went wrong with the plane. That's how I 623 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: ended up in Maine. I don't know if it counts. 624 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,560 Speaker 1: I guess I can't say I went to Maine because 625 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed outside of the plane. But I'm still 626 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: going to count it and one day I'll one day 627 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: I'll walk in Maine as a freeman. But uh, today, 628 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,879 Speaker 1: with this weekend, was not that weekend. Uh So yeah, 629 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,839 Speaker 1: if you're listening, you're in Maine, tell me what it's 630 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:47,640 Speaker 1: like outside outside of a vehicle. I want to check 631 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 1: it out out here. Now is a good time to 632 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: visit Maine as well, because it's not you know, Snowden 633 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: and Stephen Kingy. Al Right, well, definitely, do you want 634 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 1: to go to Maine. Sometimes, let's go to Maine, Paul, 635 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: Do you want to go to Maine, Paul Hollywood. He's 636 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,399 Speaker 1: given us a nod. Definitely, that was an enthusiastic nod. Well, yes, 637 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 1: you're you're absolutely right it. It's easier now to differentiate 638 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,919 Speaker 1: between fact and fiction. But then it took a lot 639 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 1: of legwork. Right. The problems start to compound when a 640 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 1: magazine called Liberty publishes an account of this story as 641 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 1: though it is fact. And this is for comparison, This 642 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: is the very similar to the Internet rumors about celebrities 643 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,280 Speaker 1: that will uh that will still make the rounds today 644 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: like what's that? What's that one? Uh Um, Richard Gear 645 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,439 Speaker 1: and the Gerbil remember that that old chestnut. I have 646 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,799 Speaker 1: no idea what you're talking about. Okay, good, because we 647 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,840 Speaker 1: still want this to be a family show. Google it, 648 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 1: but not on your work computer. This this was presented 649 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: as though it were factual, when it was literally the 650 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 1: equivalent of a mad magazine for insiders or an onion newspaper. 651 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,800 Speaker 1: And then it gets even worse. It gets codified into 652 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: history when a historian in California presents this story as 653 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:20,760 Speaker 1: though it is true, and everyone essentially falls for it. 654 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: It's published. Not just in papers in California do they 655 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: say this, historian figured this out. Not just in papers 656 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,359 Speaker 1: in New York do they say this, historians figured it out? 657 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: And not just in Maine do they say this. They 658 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 1: say it around the world. And now people continue to 659 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,279 Speaker 1: believe it, and you'll hear it floated as some sort 660 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:45,759 Speaker 1: of historical conspiracy, right that that not only is it 661 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: true that at the heart of every great fortune lay 662 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: a great crime, but that we know the great crime 663 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 1: of John Jacob Astor, which is stealing from pirates and 664 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 1: escape architect. Well there's even an I think it's a 665 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: History Channel show I don't even know if it's in 666 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,880 Speaker 1: production right now, called Unearthed, where at one point they 667 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 1: you know, they craft this whole episode about how this 668 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: guy finds out that there's a secret number of correspondence 669 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,200 Speaker 1: in within this book that was written by head that 670 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: basically translates or represents the coordinates to this place on 671 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:32,240 Speaker 1: Deer Island where the treasure still remains. And they apparently 672 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:35,399 Speaker 1: they go throughout the entire episode just pretending like it's 673 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 1: real until they end up, you know, discussing at the 674 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 1: end and finding out, oh, this was all just an 675 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: historical fiction account. Oh, America Unearthed, that's what's the name. Yeah, 676 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 1: So a bit about that genre of show, um, that 677 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: you and I have had run ins with creators of 678 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,120 Speaker 1: shows like this, not not specific the America on Earth. 679 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 1: I don't want to degon them. I haven't watched the show, 680 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 1: but I am aware of what you're talking about. Uh. 681 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: What what we have seen is that the companies creating 682 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:20,080 Speaker 1: these shows have a propensity to prize you know, what 683 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,759 Speaker 1: they see as as a click baby headline and the 684 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:29,319 Speaker 1: broadcast equivalent thereof over facts and investigations. So we've been 685 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,719 Speaker 1: in situations where and not not to brag about us 686 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,040 Speaker 1: or anything or this show, but we've been in situations 687 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,799 Speaker 1: where we have just walked away from offers to collaborate 688 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: on these sorts of projects because we feel that they 689 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 1: are at the very least wildly misleading. Yes, am, I 690 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 1: am I being diplomatic enough when I say that, I 691 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,720 Speaker 1: think I think at the heart of it, you would 692 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:02,520 Speaker 1: say that sensationalism is paramount because it will get eyeballs 693 00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,919 Speaker 1: on the screen on the correct channel configuration that you're 694 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:10,319 Speaker 1: looking for. I mean, I mean, I guess, but but 695 00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,920 Speaker 1: that leaves but that leaves people in such a lurch, 696 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 1: you know when when you see this kind of uh 697 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,879 Speaker 1: whack of do presentation of things, and at the very 698 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,839 Speaker 1: end someone says, you know, it's like at the very 699 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: end of a pharmaceutical commercial, which is a crazy thing anyway, 700 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: or the very end of a car commercial where the 701 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 1: fine print person comes in and they say, you know. 702 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,839 Speaker 1: The following account is based on a satirical fictional work 703 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,759 Speaker 1: published in the late eighteen hundreds by Franklin Head, which 704 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,880 Speaker 1: has little or nothing to do with the facts of 705 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,759 Speaker 1: the matters. You know what I mean. That's and I 706 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,080 Speaker 1: get I get it that it's entertainment, but it should 707 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:55,799 Speaker 1: not be entertainment disguised as you know, disguised as some 708 00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: sort of factual investigation. I always think about the Mermaids show. Yeah, 709 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,120 Speaker 1: have we mentioned that on air? And we have, right, 710 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,120 Speaker 1: I think we did podcast episode on it, but we 711 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,840 Speaker 1: definitely did a video on it. Yeah. So, uh, years 712 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:15,400 Speaker 1: and years back, Matt, you and I were asked to 713 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:24,400 Speaker 1: participate in something between um participating something that was again 714 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:29,920 Speaker 1: wildly misleading him not a not a small bit exploitative. Uh. 715 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:36,120 Speaker 1: Someone had put out this documentary's documentary that was purporting 716 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,360 Speaker 1: to be a documentary about the discovery of Mermaids. Mermaids 717 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,879 Speaker 1: have finally been discovered. They were real. Here they are, 718 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,240 Speaker 1: And we were asked to I think we talked about 719 00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,840 Speaker 1: this on our Facebook group earlier. Here's where it gets crazy. 720 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 1: As our Facebook group, we were asked to dive into, 721 00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: dive into this documentary and present our take on it 722 00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:06,959 Speaker 1: as though it were true. We refused. This was also 723 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,640 Speaker 1: I think one of the only times anyone had ever 724 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,239 Speaker 1: specifically asked us to do something right. And it's also 725 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,120 Speaker 1: wide Discovery sold the whole company because they were like 726 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:22,560 Speaker 1: Ben Matt, Nope, won't play ball, right, we were the 727 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:30,240 Speaker 1: mice that right in the elephant that's that's also wrote that. Yeah. 728 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: So so if anything, this is a cautionary tale. It 729 00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:41,280 Speaker 1: is virtually certain that more myths like this propagate. Mas 730 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,840 Speaker 1: grading is fact in your day to day experiences, uh, 731 00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,520 Speaker 1: for your entire life, you know what I mean. There 732 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,200 Speaker 1: there are tons of things that the equivalent of three 733 00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,560 Speaker 1: kids in a trench coat pretending to be an adult, 734 00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,400 Speaker 1: which I'm just that's just a great image. That's why 735 00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 1: I'm putting that in there. So the good news is 736 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:08,280 Speaker 1: that armed with this information, more and more people are 737 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,480 Speaker 1: not wasting time trying to trying to find some kind 738 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:17,560 Speaker 1: of uh William kid treasure in Maine instead, because even 739 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,839 Speaker 1: in that story, that's the weird thing about dear Alien. 740 00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:23,759 Speaker 1: Even in that story, the treasure is taken. But more 741 00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,879 Speaker 1: and more people are searching for kids treasure in other 742 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:31,080 Speaker 1: places that are based on their understanding his actual voyages, 743 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,600 Speaker 1: and oddly enough, more and more people claim to find 744 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,480 Speaker 1: his treasure with each passing decade. There's a recent example 745 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:44,160 Speaker 1: which makes a lot more sense from Madagascar in twenty fifteen, 746 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:46,759 Speaker 1: and the title of it, get this you're gonna love this. 747 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:53,120 Speaker 1: How many times are we gonna find Captain Kid's treasure? Right? Uh? 748 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,400 Speaker 1: So the first line is from New Jersey to Vietnam. 749 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,000 Speaker 1: There's barely a swatch of the world left untouched by 750 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:04,320 Speaker 1: the swashbuckling pie. Right, Captain Kids invasive legacy in and 751 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,720 Speaker 1: explorer named Barry Clifford says he's discovered a sunken treasure 752 00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,160 Speaker 1: at the bottom of the Indian Ocean off the coast 753 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,080 Speaker 1: of Madagascar. He found a one hundred pounds silver bar 754 00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,320 Speaker 1: with strange markings on it, and he said, this is 755 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,239 Speaker 1: a remnant of the pirates wrecked ship, because he did 756 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:26,040 Speaker 1: wreck a ship in Madagascar. So the thing is that 757 00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:30,720 Speaker 1: there's so many shipwrecks throughout these oceans of hours. Uh. 758 00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:35,520 Speaker 1: Finding something is one thing, but then proving its providence 759 00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,360 Speaker 1: is another, and it's more difficult, perhaps than you might think. 760 00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:44,880 Speaker 1: So Kids treasure may have been discovered. It leads us 761 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,160 Speaker 1: to a larger question, though, do you think that there 762 00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:52,359 Speaker 1: is still buried treasure out there that remains undiscovered? Where 763 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,520 Speaker 1: could it be located and all? And I know this 764 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,800 Speaker 1: episode may have been a bit of a bummer because 765 00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,800 Speaker 1: we did bust a conspiracy kind of, but this leads 766 00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,120 Speaker 1: us to I would argue more important conspiracy for our 767 00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:12,200 Speaker 1: day and age. Do you think that someone could pull 768 00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:17,239 Speaker 1: off something like Franklin Head did who and like make 769 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,200 Speaker 1: up a story and then a modern day make everyone 770 00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:24,840 Speaker 1: think he's real? Uh? Yeah, for sure. Think about some 771 00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,239 Speaker 1: of the viral videos that have occurred where it's one 772 00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:33,080 Speaker 1: of these um small groups of video audio video professionals 773 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,120 Speaker 1: that are making fake things about a bear attack or 774 00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,520 Speaker 1: like an almost bear attack or I'm trying to think 775 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,400 Speaker 1: of some of the exact examples, right, And if you 776 00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,400 Speaker 1: know some of these, or give us a call. But 777 00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,239 Speaker 1: there's somewhere it's been absolutely proven to be false. Oh 778 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,360 Speaker 1: the one there was like Justin Bieber eating a burrito 779 00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,560 Speaker 1: like from the Middle or something like that, where it 780 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,640 Speaker 1: became a national news story in all these places, but 781 00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,160 Speaker 1: it was just these guys. Somebody dressed up like Justin 782 00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,680 Speaker 1: Bieber and ada burrito from the center and it became 783 00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:05,080 Speaker 1: a thing. I I think it's probably pretty easy now 784 00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:08,440 Speaker 1: because of the the rapid rate that everyone wants to 785 00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,680 Speaker 1: pick up a story and you kind of have to 786 00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:12,680 Speaker 1: in order to be relevant. You've got to get it 787 00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:16,040 Speaker 1: in your feed somehow, so I think it's I bet 788 00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:20,000 Speaker 1: it's easier. Now it's interesting. We should do an episode 789 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,920 Speaker 1: on deep fakes in general. Right, yeah, yeah, So let 790 00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,520 Speaker 1: us know what your examples are or if you were 791 00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:31,279 Speaker 1: to perpetuate a myth of this nature, what would it 792 00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,640 Speaker 1: be and why? There's one example at Someone recently posted 793 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:37,840 Speaker 1: on Here's where it gets Crazy that I would like 794 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:41,280 Speaker 1: to read because it just sounds like a great time. 795 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,799 Speaker 1: You want to hear it? Yes? Please? This comes from 796 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:49,200 Speaker 1: Wayward Son, who said in the latest episode who Fellas 797 00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,839 Speaker 1: posed the question what mystery would you like to leave 798 00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:55,560 Speaker 1: the world trolling? Of course, I want to rob a house, 799 00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:58,680 Speaker 1: he says, Stay with me. I want to steal someone's 800 00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,680 Speaker 1: entire house. This would take a lot of resources, but 801 00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,239 Speaker 1: the mechanics are pretty straightforward. It would have to be 802 00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,279 Speaker 1: a rural area where there are less neighbors and they 803 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:11,080 Speaker 1: are farther between. Wait for some poor, unsuspecting family to 804 00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,680 Speaker 1: go on a long vacation, then hire a house moving company. 805 00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:16,880 Speaker 1: Of course, there would have to be planning a fluid 806 00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,720 Speaker 1: capital to a swash the house movers from spilling the beans. 807 00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:21,920 Speaker 1: Then you simply jack the house up and off we 808 00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,239 Speaker 1: go with everything inside. The family comes home to an 809 00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,359 Speaker 1: empty space. Disbelief and hilarity ensue, and then we go 810 00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,840 Speaker 1: down in historical anonymity is the unknown perpetrators of the 811 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,840 Speaker 1: greatest unsolved mystery of all times. Step Aside, go Backley 812 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:38,520 Speaker 1: TEPPI Wow, um. I want to say, I'm on board, 813 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,960 Speaker 1: but it's you're still stealing a house, even even jokingly. There, 814 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:47,320 Speaker 1: I'm on board. I'm on board if through some ridiculous 815 00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:50,719 Speaker 1: series of circumstances they get their house back. Yes, so 816 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:52,880 Speaker 1: I think it's more of a troll move for the 817 00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:57,759 Speaker 1: house to show show up later all their stuff. I 818 00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:02,240 Speaker 1: think it's way funnier if it's moved only slightly. Maybe 819 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,360 Speaker 1: it's only a couple of feet over, like beyond a 820 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:07,480 Speaker 1: gate or something. Now it's behind the gate and it 821 00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,240 Speaker 1: used to be on the other side of the gate. Yeah. Yeah, 822 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,600 Speaker 1: David Cope says, break into a house and move everything 823 00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,400 Speaker 1: over two to three inches. There you go. Uh and 824 00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:22,040 Speaker 1: then you know. Also I add this idea to uh, 825 00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:25,400 Speaker 1: why not don't why not replace the house? Don't just 826 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,560 Speaker 1: steal it, replace it with a nicer house. But all 827 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,480 Speaker 1: the stuff is still in All the stuff is still 828 00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,759 Speaker 1: in the house, All the same stuff, and then have 829 00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:37,200 Speaker 1: one empty room that doesn't exist in the in the 830 00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,640 Speaker 1: old house, and in there leave leave the room absolutely 831 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,040 Speaker 1: blank except for a Manila envelope on the floor, and 832 00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:50,799 Speaker 1: it has a VHS tape of the barren steam bears right, 833 00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,920 Speaker 1: But see, you're just describing the Netflix revival of Queer Eye. 834 00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:00,640 Speaker 1: Really just put a whole new house there, happens new everything. 835 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:04,759 Speaker 1: I've watched it. All your facial facial care products are replaced. 836 00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:06,960 Speaker 1: I don't know how it works. My wife makes me 837 00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,680 Speaker 1: watch a lot of TV. I see, I see. Well, 838 00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:11,480 Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying some of it. 839 00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,680 Speaker 1: I really am. So we want to hear. We want 840 00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:19,719 Speaker 1: to hear your your ideas for phenomenal pranks or trolling. 841 00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:21,759 Speaker 1: And we want to hear whether you think there is 842 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:27,160 Speaker 1: legitimate buried treasure out there remaining to be found. And 843 00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,359 Speaker 1: if you if you really think you have a lead 844 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,400 Speaker 1: and you want it, to tell us about it. But 845 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,400 Speaker 1: you don't want us to spill the beans, let us know, 846 00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:38,800 Speaker 1: will make sure not to accidentally give anyone a headstart. 847 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,640 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, So again, find us on all 848 00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:43,960 Speaker 1: the socials. You can give us a call. Our number 849 00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,640 Speaker 1: again is one H three three st d w y 850 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:53,680 Speaker 1: t K. Please please refrain from fiddle rock usage before 851 00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,399 Speaker 1: giving us a call. It just really helps me out um. 852 00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:58,439 Speaker 1: But mostly just say whatever you want and have fun 853 00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,440 Speaker 1: with it. If you don't want to do any that stuff, 854 00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,560 Speaker 1: you want to stay away from the computers and all 855 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:05,160 Speaker 1: the socials, you can always write us a good old 856 00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:28,520 Speaker 1: fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. 857 00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:30,440 Speaker 1: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production 858 00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,239 Speaker 1: of i Heeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts 859 00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:35,479 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 860 00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,440 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.