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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff.

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Speaker 1: I never told you a protection of iHeartRadio, and today

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Speaker 1: we are talking about Monopoly, the game, which will be

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Speaker 1: elucidated throughout. But I have recently run into a lot

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Speaker 1: of instances of Monopoly in my life, which sounds very bizarre.

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Speaker 1: Somebody gave me a version of Star Wars Monopoly for Christmas,

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Speaker 1: and then I recently saw the movie Heretic, which has

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Speaker 1: a whole Monopoly based monologue in it. So I was

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Speaker 1: just thinking about it. And we have briefly talked about

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Speaker 1: Monopoly in the past and about the history of it.

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Speaker 1: We talked about miss Monopoly, which is missus Monopoly excuse me,

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Speaker 1: was not so great, which was an addition that came

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Speaker 1: out a couple of years ago. Let's so yeah. I

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Speaker 1: thought we would just do a quick run through of

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Speaker 1: the history of Monopoly, which I promise you is related

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Speaker 1: to feminism. So, Samantha, what, I am very excited to

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Speaker 1: hear your update about Monopoly. But have you played the

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Speaker 1: board game? What were your experiences with the board game?

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Speaker 1: If you have any, I.

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Speaker 2: Have a feeling it's similar to most other people's, especially

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Speaker 2: if you played with family if you ever played that game,

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Speaker 2: it ended up with a lot of fighting and a

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Speaker 2: lot of shouting, and then your father coming and ripping

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Speaker 2: the game out from underneath. You say, he's going to

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Speaker 2: burn this because he's tired of this BS, and then

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Speaker 2: hides it for six months, and then you come back

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Speaker 2: and play it by yourself because you can't play with

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Speaker 2: your family anymore.

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Speaker 3: That's my opinion.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, I think that is a lot of

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Speaker 1: people's experience some version of that. I have said it before.

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Speaker 1: I I won't say I hate Monopoly. I feel like

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Speaker 1: a lot of people really hate Monopoly. I think it

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Speaker 1: is a game that brings out a lot of tension.

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Speaker 1: And I have infamously in my family cheated at Monopoly

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Speaker 1: and still lost, and I think that says something about

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Speaker 1: the game. I did have a Monopoly computer game that

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Speaker 1: was Star Wars based, and I have really fond memories

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Speaker 1: of that, but that you were playing with the computer,

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Speaker 1: you weren't playing with other people. And I do kind

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Speaker 1: of love a lot of the very strange versions of

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Speaker 1: Monopoly that are available. I have a lot of the

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Speaker 1: Star Wars ones, but there are some very obscure pop

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Speaker 1: culture versions of Monopoly. You can get. But yes, I

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Speaker 1: did want to ask you, Samantha about you said you've

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Speaker 1: gotten back into the Monopoly mobile game.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I want to shout out first one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite k dramas actually has their version of Monopoly. It's Monopoly,

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Speaker 2: but it's Korean version, and it's super interesting to see.

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Speaker 3: So if you know, you know.

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Speaker 2: But I love that it was like cross Culturally, it

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Speaker 2: exists and it still makes everybody fight. Yes, as in fact,

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Speaker 2: so I stopped playing it for a while because my

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Speaker 2: addiction was too hardcore. I never actually mentioned it. I

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Speaker 2: remember like being very like elusive about it when we

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Speaker 2: were talking about mobile gaming, just because I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to advertise it. Obviously, they are not a sponsor. They

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Speaker 2: don't care about us. They sponsor big names like Marvel people.

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Speaker 2: That's fine, I'm fine. But all of that to say

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Speaker 2: is that, you know, I didn't want it to give

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Speaker 2: any more creed to it because it is such a

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Speaker 2: popular game and it's such a time suck. But they

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Speaker 2: are also very smart and getting everybody's money. It is

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Speaker 2: like one of the top money makers now and it

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Speaker 2: flew to that top spot the way like people are

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Speaker 2: addicted to it, and I get it, like I said,

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Speaker 2: And I stopped for a long while because I'm like,

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Speaker 2: this is obsessive, Like I had it on three mobile

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Speaker 2: devices so I can give myself cards.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I was very I was sitting next to you

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Speaker 1: once said you were it was like you were like

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Speaker 1: a secret agent. You're picking up different phones.

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Speaker 2: I had burner phones. I had burner phones for my

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Speaker 2: Monopoly game. And I'm not the only one. I'm not

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Speaker 2: the only one. Uh. There's a big Facebook community of

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Speaker 2: people and it's absurd. The amount of like trolling and

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Speaker 2: targeting in that game is so wild, Like people have

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Speaker 2: been banned for selling things, I mean hundreds of dollars

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Speaker 2: of like black market Monopoly, dice Go game market, like

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Speaker 2: this is an odd, odd thing phenomenon.

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Speaker 3: But yees.

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Speaker 2: So I stopped it because I was like, this is

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Speaker 2: too much. I'm doing too much. I've spent a little

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Speaker 2: bit money and this makes me mad. I don't want

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Speaker 2: to do this anymore.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 2: But recently one of my good friends in real life

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Speaker 2: posted and was like, hey, I'm playing this. You want

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Speaker 2: playing I was like, well, damn, let's be friends, because

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Speaker 2: now I want to steal your money.

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Speaker 3: That's the whole game. I get so mad.

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Speaker 2: People get mad on here because people target so once

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Speaker 2: they see that you are a weak, like if you've

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Speaker 2: lost all your shields or you haven't played for a while,

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Speaker 2: and they can come after you.

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Speaker 3: They come after you, and it's mean.

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Speaker 1: I am loving this, Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: And they get you any they get you. They know

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Speaker 2: how to get you. Whoever's working, there's a whole I

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Speaker 2: joined a Discord to get the down low. I'm not

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Speaker 2: on Discord, y'all. I don't know how discord works. I

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Speaker 2: have an addiction, but that's why I stopped it. But

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Speaker 2: I am back on and they have revamped it. And yes,

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Speaker 2: they have now made it full celebrity like you can

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Speaker 2: do emojis and all of this that are Marvel based

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Speaker 2: because they are now part of the sponsorship.

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Speaker 3: Wow mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: I really honestly enjoyed hearing about your rival, and because

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Speaker 1: their user names were kind of comical.

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Speaker 3: Thoughtful bunny or something along those lines.

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Speaker 1: It was very funny to me. I'm sorry for any

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Speaker 1: an anxiety that it caused you, but it did. It

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Speaker 1: did make me laugh. And also I know you got

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Speaker 1: your partner kind of involved in helping you out.

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Speaker 2: He he's like he was just like, why am I

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Speaker 2: getting tagged on the social media posts about your game?

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, don't worry about it.

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Speaker 1: Just say yes, yes, no questions asked.

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Speaker 3: Any You're luck at it? Get you involved, to be honest.

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Speaker 1: No, oh no, I think I told the story. We

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Speaker 1: were being vague about what game you were talking about

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Speaker 1: at the time the previous time we talked about it,

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Speaker 1: but I did tell the story of I was waiting

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Speaker 1: in line for a ride at Disney World and the

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Speaker 1: person in front of me, who was a young person,

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Speaker 1: was playing it on her phone. I'm really curious to

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Speaker 1: hear from listeners about this, your experiences with Monopoly, but

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Speaker 1: also young people, because you know, usually we like to

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Speaker 1: do a definition, and I was like, I feel like

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Speaker 1: we don't have to do a definition of Monopoly, but

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Speaker 1: maybe there are some people who don't know what it is.

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Speaker 1: Not sure, let us know. We'll be discussing it throughout.

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Speaker 1: You can see our past episodes on tabletop gaming. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the brief update episode we did on Missus Monopoly, just

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Speaker 1: any of our episodes on gaming in general. I would say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the game most of us know as Monopoly was based

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Speaker 1: on the Landlord's game which was designed by feminist Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Lizzie Maggie. So Lizzie Maggie created the Landlord's Game in

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Speaker 1: nineteen oh three or nineteen oh four. Her father was

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Speaker 1: an abolitionist, and she was very progressed in part because

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Speaker 1: of that. Oh and also she had a whole life,

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Speaker 1: Like I feel like it could be a female first episode.

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Speaker 1: We're focusing on the game. But yeah, she did a

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Speaker 1: bunch of stuff, but.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Her family moved to Washington, DC in the eighteen eighties.

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Speaker 1: She got work as a snographer and typing for the

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Speaker 1: Dead Letter Office, which is basically when male that is,

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, is undeliverable and employee comes and they

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Speaker 1: try to find a forwarding address. So she worked for them,

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Speaker 1: but she was also involved in engineering, comedy, and writing reporting.

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Speaker 1: When she was twenty six, she got a patent that

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Speaker 1: involved the rollers on typewriters in like more quickly moving

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Speaker 1: the paper through. At this time, only one percent of

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Speaker 1: women received patents. She taught political classes after work. She

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Speaker 1: was an anomaly of her time in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: She was an older single woman who was able to

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Speaker 1: buy a house. She did eventually marry, but at this

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Speaker 1: time she was not married, She spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time thinking about issues around monopolies' income, inequality, and corruption.

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Speaker 1: She was determined to do something to address it, or

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Speaker 1: at least educate people about it, so she started working

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Speaker 1: on a board game. She received the patent for the

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Speaker 1: board game, The Landlord's Game in nineteen oh four, which

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Speaker 1: was before she was allowed to vote legally. Just by

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Speaker 1: the way, The game was played on a square board

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Speaker 1: and players had to pass corners like go to jail

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Speaker 1: or public park, all while gathering money, paying rents, and

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Speaker 1: collecting properties like railroads. There were necessity spaces that provided

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Speaker 1: things like food and shelter utility spaces. Players earned money

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Speaker 1: through tasks as they progressed around the board. At one

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Speaker 1: corner of the board was a globe, which was an

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Speaker 1: homage to her political hero, Henry Jo George, who proposed

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Speaker 1: that wealthy landowners should be responsible for the bulk of

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Speaker 1: taxes and so that that space read quote labor upon

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Speaker 1: mother Earth produces wages. Passing go required players to have

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Speaker 1: earned one hundred dollars or go to the poorhouse. Trespassing

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Speaker 1: on land resulted in jail time and a fine. But

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Speaker 1: here's the interesting thing. There were two sets of rules,

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Speaker 1: the anti monopolist rules called Prosperity that rewarded everyone when

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Speaker 1: money was earned, and the monopolist sett of rules called

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Speaker 1: monopoly that rewarded those who crushed their opponents. And you

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Speaker 1: can guess which one endured. I do wonder how popular

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Speaker 1: the original game, the anti monopolist version would be now

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Speaker 1: with the rise of co op board games. I'm just curious.

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Speaker 1: I need to look into I think you can still

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Speaker 1: play it. I think it's sort of hard to get,

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Speaker 1: but I think you can still play it.

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Speaker 3: So many games we need to play.

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Speaker 1: I know we never released our Girl Talk.

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Speaker 2: It's still in the in the world, like I still

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Speaker 2: have it. But the audio was so bad that I

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Speaker 2: wanted to hesitate and do a redo.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it was quite funny.

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Speaker 1: It was quite funny. We recorded it as playing girl Talk.

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Speaker 1: The technology was great.

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Speaker 3: The technology was very quiet. That was one of the

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Speaker 3: pst that was the problem.

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Speaker 1: But it was fun.

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Speaker 2: But like the overall, well, first of all, for going

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Speaker 2: down memory lane for me, wow.

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Speaker 3: Hm wow.

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Speaker 1: I got the guy at the end.

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Speaker 3: Did she want him? No? But she got him.

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Speaker 1: I got him. Anyway, back to Monopoly. The goal. Her

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Speaker 1: goal was to create a game that demonstrated the cruelty

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Speaker 1: of hoarding wealth while others were suffering. She said in

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Speaker 1: nineteen oh six quotquote in a short time, I hope

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Speaker 1: a very short time men and women will discover that

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Speaker 1: they are poor, because Carnegie and Rockefeller maybe have more

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Speaker 1: than they know what to do with. She also said

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Speaker 1: of it, quote, it is a practical demonstration of the

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Speaker 1: present system of land grabbing, with all its usual outcomes

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Speaker 1: and consequences. It might well have been called the game

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Speaker 1: of life, as it contains all the elements of success

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Speaker 1: and failure in the real world, and the object is

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Speaker 1: the same as the human race in general seems to have,

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Speaker 1: i e. The accumulation of wealth. It was sold for

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Speaker 1: a short time by a publisher in New York, but

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Speaker 1: it was mostly word of mouth that helped spread it

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Speaker 1: along the East Coast. People would play on things like

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Speaker 1: handkerchiefs like they would make their own version of it

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Speaker 1: based on what they'd heard. And then in nineteen thirty two,

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Speaker 1: Charles Darrow played what was called the Monopoly game. That's

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Speaker 1: how it was introduced to him, a game that wasn't

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Speaker 1: sold in a box. He allegedly played a version the

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Speaker 1: Quakers of Atlantic City had customized with the names of

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Speaker 1: their own neighbors, which I kind of love. Darrel loved it,

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Speaker 1: He fell in love with it. He sold the game

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Speaker 1: as his own, that's how much he loved it to

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Speaker 1: Parker Brothers in nineteen thirty five with some changes, obviously

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Speaker 1: leaving out the anti monopoly rules, and it was a

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Speaker 1: huge success. He played it off as like this idea

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Speaker 1: that he had one day, not crediting Maggie at all.

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Speaker 1: He made millions off of it, and it's often referred

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Speaker 1: to as the first board game designer to become a millionaire.

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Speaker 1: And the tale has definitely been spun by Parker Brothers

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Speaker 1: and now Hasborough, which owns Monopoly, and also Darrow himself,

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Speaker 1: a man struggling during the Great Depression, comes up with

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Speaker 1: this game and it's a smashing success. They're still really

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Speaker 1: cagy about mentioning her at all. Sometimes they'll be like,

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Speaker 1: she exists, but no either, she didn't, no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: Maggie did sell the patent to the game to Parker

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Speaker 1: Brothers in nineteen thirty five. She thought that more people

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Speaker 1: having access to it would be a good thing in

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Speaker 1: terms of her intended message and more people receiving that

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Speaker 1: intended message. However, sort of the opposite happened, and instead

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Speaker 1: became a symbol of cutthroat greed, of laughing when someone

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Speaker 1: lost their properties and went bankrupt, of perhaps joining discord

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Speaker 1: groups taking people down.

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying, I get it.

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Speaker 1: I get it.

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Speaker 3: It's about revenge against other landlords. Okay, okay, I like that.

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Speaker 1: I like that. At first, Maggie was quite happy after

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Speaker 1: the sale, but within a year of it she was

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Speaker 1: doing angry interviews with major publications. You can read them.

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Speaker 1: She was not happy, and in a nineteen forty census

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Speaker 1: she listed her career as maker of games and her

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Speaker 1: income as zero. Oh. She died in nineteen forty eight,

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Speaker 1: with no children and never being recognized for what she did.

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Speaker 1: And this game was hugely impactful, just to say. Her

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Speaker 1: design had a lasting impact on board games, especially when

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Speaker 1: it came to the circular design. So many games after

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Speaker 1: that took inspiration from this game. And of course these

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Speaker 1: days it's all over pop culture. You can play it

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Speaker 1: in numerous versions based on numerous franchises, played on your

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Speaker 1: phone with McDonald's. According to the company, billions of people

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Speaker 1: have played Monopoly. Hasbro the current owner as I said,

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Speaker 1: still doesn't credit her as I said, but that has

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Speaker 1: started to change. In nineteen seventy three, a liberal man

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Speaker 1: named Ralph Ensbach started looking into the history of Monopoly

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Speaker 1: after he was sued by Barker Brothers for his anti

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Speaker 1: Monopoly game, and he learned all about her story and

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Speaker 1: he started to share it. It took a long time,

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Speaker 1: but Unspock eventually won his case. And yeah, now I

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Speaker 1: feel more people are aware, but still pretty small number.

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Speaker 1: But it was a big part of the movie. Heretic.

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Speaker 1: It's more people know, but it's still pretty obscure. You

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Speaker 1: have to look for it. Maybe I do want to

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Speaker 1: play it. I'm really interested to see because it's very similar.

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Speaker 1: But I want to play with the anti Monopoly rules.

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Speaker 1: Let's see what that is.

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Speaker 3: What's the point you always lose?

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Speaker 1: No, it's supposed to be build each other up. Oh,

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Speaker 1: we all come together?

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Speaker 3: Oh did you have that one person?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that's why Monopoly happened. I think that's

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Speaker 1: why that version took off. But you know a lot.

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Speaker 1: It made me think of a lot of the episodes

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Speaker 1: we've done about creators who are women are non binary

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Speaker 1: in the gaming space. They often play with our traditional

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Speaker 1: idea of what a game is, and so like in

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Speaker 1: Cozy Gaming, we've talked about how so many times a

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Speaker 1: lot of video games are defined by violence and that's

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Speaker 1: how you succeed in your goal. But a lot of

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Speaker 1: women creators are like, no, what if we did something

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Speaker 1: different or what if we you know, looked at it

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Speaker 1: this way? And I love that, and so I wonder,

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Speaker 1: especially like I said, there are there is a rise

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Speaker 1: of co op games. And I know we played together Wingspan,

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Speaker 1: and we talked about Wingspan, but that that's an example

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Speaker 1: of one where you're still competitive, but you're not necessarily

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Speaker 1: like competing against each other. I don't know, Like I

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Speaker 1: I wonder if this game would actually be pretty successful

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Speaker 1: right now, because a lot of articles I read were like, well,

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Speaker 1: she never managed to really sell it, so too bad

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Speaker 1: for her. I'm like, well, I think it. I think

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Speaker 1: it could have been for any successfully.

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Speaker 3: Mean, typically she did sell it until someone stole it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody stole it. It's like it's mine, and then

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Speaker 1: they found the patent, like yeah, take this money.

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Speaker 2: Right without understanding did she? I wonder if she understood

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Speaker 2: that that's what they were want intending, or if she

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Speaker 2: really thought they were going to do it as a whole.

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Speaker 1: I think I honestly would love to see a movie

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Speaker 1: about this because, like in my head, what I am

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Speaker 1: ambitionionous is she really had this idea, this optimistic idea

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people would see that the Monopoly

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Speaker 1: version was the bad version, like that was the and

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Speaker 1: she wanted people to see, Oh, this anti Monopoly one,

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Speaker 1: it's much better. But instead they only really sold the

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Speaker 1: Monopoly version, and so that like betrayal and hurt of

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Speaker 1: her idea being completely misrepresented and then then making all

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Speaker 1: of this money of the complete misrepresentation of her work.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: Interestingly, the mobile game have a lot of events where

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Speaker 2: you'd have to team up with people, oftentimes in order

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Speaker 2: to make a successful run or whatever whatnot. And I'm wondering, like,

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Speaker 2: is that their try and take of being like, no, see,

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Speaker 2: we got the other side here.

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Speaker 3: It's not just because like.

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Speaker 2: The narrative changed, like it went from being coming a

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Speaker 2: landlord to being like, yeah, we're suspicious and we don't

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Speaker 2: like landlords because it's really gross and eat the rich

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Speaker 2: type of conversation. So they're taking that and they also

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Speaker 2: need the community to foster this competitiveness as well as

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Speaker 2: encouraging them. Yeah, a friend telling me he's on that

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Speaker 2: game made me come back and play. But like stuff

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Speaker 2: like that, And I wonder if that's their flip, because

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Speaker 2: obviously people do desire.

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Speaker 3: Some community, not just being alone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's that's interesting. I bet. I mean. And

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Speaker 1: the thing is as many people as they said, have

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Speaker 1: played Monopoly, which I completely believe. I feel like everyone

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Speaker 1: I know has that story you kind of opened, like

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Speaker 1: the Miserable, like I'm banned from playing Monopoly, or my

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Speaker 1: family isn't allowed to play Monopoly anymore. I wonder if

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Speaker 1: they were, like, maybe we should try to find a different,

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Speaker 1: not so heated, that way of playing this game.

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Speaker 3: Also Less Forever.

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Speaker 1: That's true for ever and probably.

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Speaker 3: One of the longest running games I've ever played. Outside

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Speaker 3: of like that, I.

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Speaker 1: Feel like everybody has the story to you of cheating,

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Speaker 1: like somebody cheating in their family.

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Speaker 2: Did you you know they have household rules for different things,

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Speaker 2: you know, a monopoly Like I don't think everyone does this,

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Speaker 2: but like you have to recognize that someone's landing on

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Speaker 2: your property. If you want to collect, you don't just

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Speaker 2: get it, and if you if the person moves on

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Speaker 2: before you find out, then you can't get it later.

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Speaker 2: We had that role and that caused a lot of

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Speaker 2: fights because people would like hurry and like roll the

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Speaker 2: dice so they didn't have to pay rent to park place.

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Speaker 1: And then you're suspicious of the banker meantime taking money, yes,

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Speaker 1: not giving you the right yuh huh.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 1: One of the reasons this idea came to me is

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Speaker 1: I saw a bunch of advertisements for the various monopolies

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Speaker 1: that are not licensed, and I know Hasbro is like

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Speaker 1: we should see them, and it's just kind of interesting

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Speaker 1: when it's like you look at the history obviously, it

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Speaker 1: just kind of my eyebrows are kind of like, I'm

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Speaker 1: not I don't know, I'm not saying necessarily those unlicensed

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Speaker 1: monopolies should or shouldn't be out there, but I I

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Speaker 1: was just like, this is interesting that you don't like

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Speaker 1: that somebody came in right, is doing taking your what

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Speaker 1: you see as your property? Okay, cool? But I really

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Speaker 1: would love listeners. If you write in, if if you

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Speaker 1: had family rules, if you have memories trauma with Monopoly

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Speaker 1: or any board games. You know we love board games

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Speaker 1: over here, Please please please contact us. You can email

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Speaker 1: us at Stephania mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You

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00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 1: can also email us at Hello at Stuff Onever Told

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00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: You dot com. Both work, choose your own adventure. You

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00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: can find us on Blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast,

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Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff We've Never Told You.

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Speaker 1: We're also on YouTube. We have a tea pelic store,

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Speaker 1: and we have a book you can get wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks as always to our super producer

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Speaker 1: christinaor executive producing my anti contributor Joey.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, and thanks to you for listening.

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Speaker 1: Stuff Never Told You, the production of iHeartRadio For more

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Speaker 1: podcast or my Heart Radio. You can check out the

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